Here in Provo it will always be 1984.
If I have to choose between the government monitoring who I call or reading
about people getting killed and maimed in bombings all the time I'll choose
the government surveillance of my phone calls.
@cjbIF gave up all your freedom for the promise of security,then what do have?What would be the point?True
freedom, true liberty comes with risk.Why would you want it any
@the truth"True freedom, true liberty comes with risk. Why
would you want it any other way?"Perhaps because he has weighed
the negatives (the government listening to him talk to his mom on the phone) and
decided that they are worth it given the positives (not getting blown up at his
I am quite conservative. I believe in a strong military.But when the
technology exists for government to track us in real-time and read the content
of our emails and scan every envelope we mail and know where we've been by
scanning our license plates and track within a few feet where we were when we
made a phone call and gather information about our movements from the cameras
located just about everywhere...I say that is enough. There is too much power
in the hands of government.They have proven that they can roadblock the
formation of political groups and audit tax returns for political purposes.Locally we've seen that people can access government information and
firebomb the vehicle of an enemy. Why would be believe that Washington spies
would have any more integrity?
@the truth?Ask the surviving families of 9-11 victims the same
While Ian share some measure of concern the protestor golfing the sign with the
swastika lost all credibility with me. I am so tired of everyone comparing
everything to nazi's.
This topic seems to be the only one in the last half decade to unity the Right,
Left, and Middle. It is a concern to me how much government (and private
business as well) can and/or does monitor every word, click, or search we do on
our phones, computers, at check out terminals, etc. Somehow we need a check and
balance for this 'security work'.
Obama defeated a sitting Democrat state senator in Illinois when the Chicago
Tribune (David Axelrod's old employer) got a judge to unseal the divorce
records of the sitting state senator. The poor guy never recovered from the
salacious revelations. Funny, Jack Ryan, Obama's opponent in
his campaign for the US Senate also had his divorce records unsealed. The LA
Times went to a judge in California and magically those records were unsealed.
(Jack was married to Jeri Ryan, of 7 of 9 fame). Those materials also destroyed
his political career.Anyone see a pattern here? True, I can't
prove that Obama's finger prints are on this.If this is how the
Obama government uses private information, can they be trusted with massive
collections of data on every American?How did they use information
on TEA Party groups?The people should control the government, not
the other way around.
"Give me liberty, or give me death." - Patrick Henry
The 4th Amendmeny was written to prevent this exact type of behavior. That is
why it requires probable cause for a warrant to issue. If the government is
spying on us, there is really no liberty. I can assure you, the government
tracking my phone calls will not prevent a terror attack. It will, however,
allow a corrupt government to use informantion against me. Does anyone remember
the FBI files that ended up at the white house, even though it was illegal for
them to be there. If you call the wrong tlephone numbers, give to the wrong
political party, a corrupt government can use its many enforcement branches to
make life difficult. They have already show a willingness to use the IRS.
Headline should read– Mysterious Loss of Time: Folks not able to account
for 12 years of their lives, awake to find their right to privacy had been
removed over 12 years ago! Better late than never, but I have to
ask, what took so long for you to notice and or care, and why now?Uniting (and) Strengthening America (by)Providing Appropriate Tools Required
(to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001. is an Act of Congress
that was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. Such a clever name, got a flag on your lapel?
These protestors are exercising their Constitutional rights of freedom of
speech. Even using images like the swastika and the hammer and sickle is
protected speech guaranteed by the government they slander.These
protestors don’t appreciate what tyrannical government is. A dose of
Twilight Zone justice might give them a new perspective. After 24 hours of
forced living in a Nazi concentration camp or a Stalinist gulag, they might be
grateful little boys and girls to be transported back to the present to live
under the government they think is so awful.And yet despite how they
choose to exercise their freedom of speech, I will always defend that right for
both them and myself.
So if was started under Bush to respond to 9/11 where they intercepted/monitored
calls from the U.S. to the middle east - we have to go back and blame Bush.
Don't remember that Bush was using the information to go after conservative
groups, liberal groups, using the irs to go after his enemies, do you? If
you don't remember there were a lot of conservatives who went after Bush
for the Patriot Act. And the din from the left was deafening. Now it has
increased by 100% and just like the war, we never see anyone from the left out
protesting about the # killed on the battlefield. The president doesn't
mention it, and the msm doesn't bother to cover. Of course everyone
wants to be safe. But all their monitoring, and calls from the Russians
didn't save those people in Boston did it? Were they too busy listening in
on groups they don't like instead of taking warnings seriously?
Todd i,"....we need a check and balance for this 'security
work'."______________________________The check and
balance is in the authorization by Congress to the NSA to do the job they are
doing. They can and should be brought to account if they exceed that authority.
So far, I've seen no evidence that the NSA is doing anything that is not in
the scope of its authority. If you disapprove of what they are doing, write to
your Congressional representatives to change the law.
Star Bright said: If you don't remember there were a lot of conservatives
who went after Bush for the Patriot Act. And the din from the left was
deafening. Now it has increased by 100%First of all I remember the
how anti american and pro terrorist you were if you didn't support the
patriot act I don't remember the same out cry from conservatives or their
radio support squad. How has it increased by 100% please cite?I
think it's a crock now as I did then and was labeled un-patriotic, just
some consistency from the right, since they only seem to notice when they
aren't in power and Obama didn't use the IRS to spy on conservatives,
anymore than dick cheney used no contract bids to further haliburtin's
To "Happy Valley Heretic" and any others who blame Bush for the problem,
why bother? What good does it do to issue blame? Will that make the
surveillance go away? Why do you just want to blame others for the problems,
but not actually do anything to fix them?To "cjb" you should
be very concerned about the government recording all of your phone and email
traffic. Imagine that you offend a government official with enough power to get
access to all of your data that the NSA has collected. While you think your
email and phone conversations were harmless, they can manipulate the information
to make you appear to be a radical terrorist sympathizer. The more information
they collect, the easier it is to make you look crazy.
"...Imagine that you offend a government official with enough power...While
you think your email and phone conversations were harmless, they can manipulate
the information to make you appear to be a radical terrorist sympathizer. The
more information they collect, the easier it is to make you look
crazy...".Already happened numerous times during the reign of
Republican President Bush."...True, I can't
prove...".A move perfected by Republican Senator Joe McCarthy,
reprised by a look-a-like from Texas Republican Senator Ted Cruz."...Don't remember that Bush was using information to go
cjbWay to fall for the false "choice/balance between liberty and
security" narrative. Fact is, these programs don't do much, if
anything to prevent terror attacks. Intelligence officials testifying before
the Senate Judiciary Committee a week or so ago looked pretty silly when the
"54 thwarted terror plots" that supposedly had been disrupted by these
programs turned out to be "maybe one, if any" that could have been a
"but for" scenario. It's not a choice between security and
liberty. If you lose your liberty, you have, by default, lost your security.
Whether the terrorists hail from Iraq or Washington D.C. makes no difference in
the end. At any rate, you're more than four times as likely to be struck
by lightning as you are to be a victim of a terror attack, so we'd better
outlaw thunderstorms while you're at it.
To "There You Go Again" so are you for or against letting the NSA
continue to collect your emails, phone records, and phone conversations?Personally I am against it because of the potential for abuse that is
creates. You realize this isn't a partisan topic. This is a freedom vs
tyrany issue. Are you for freedom and stopping the NSA from collecting data or
are you willing to surrender freedom and let the NSA collect the data on you?
You know the irony of all this is that there are more postings on this event
than people who showed up for it. Another sign of the Apocalypse.
I agree with EJM. How is it that a dozen protesters can warrant this much press
attention? Seems a bit overblown... especially considering how much this issue
has already been bantered about and discussed almost to the point of overkill.
I seriously doubt there has been even one person, on either side of the
issue, change their stance because of either the protest, the article, or the
comments. Time to move on...
"How is it that a dozen protesters can warrant this much press
goes to whatever a news outlet thinks will make a good story and that's not
necessarily what's newsworthy. A handful of angry people marching and
carrying signs with inflammatory slogans and images makes better copy than an
audience sitting politely in a statehouse balcony listening to a legislative