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Comments about ‘Brad Rock: Could Utah football be the new Arizona?’

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Published: Saturday, Aug. 3 2013 8:13 p.m. MDT

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Cougars1
Bluffdale, UT

U90,
Have you not read my posts. Until BYU beats Utah, they really have nothing to brag about as far as the rivalry is concerned. That doesn't mean that BYU didn't have a better overall year than Utah last year. But yes, Utah gets the bragging rights.

Ute4life,

Nice spin. BYU fans talk about how bad Utah is and will be in the PAC and they immediately start talking about how they own BYU. Hence, the comments about BYU being Utah's measuring stick. As in Utah thinks it a successful season if they beat BYU. After all, that is the first thing Utah fans like to point at when the subject comes up as to how pathetic Utah is in the PAC. Please explain why Utah has yet to beat a PAC team with a winning record without mentioning anything about BYU.

PAC man
Anaheim, CA

2b

"Why don't you list top 5 finishes and head to head vs the two? Also your bowl record for the Bronco/Kyle era is way off"

two words: reading comprehension

The bowl record listed was "since" Kyle's flash-in-the-pan 2008 season:

Bowl Record
Bronco 4-0
Kyle 2-1

Kyle gets credit for his one great flash-in-the-pan season one Top 5 finish, but his overall record still falls short of Bronco's.

Overall, Bronco has three times more Top 15 finishes, twice as many AP Top 25 finishes, twice as many conference championships, a better overall record 74-29 versus 70-32, one more bowl, and no losing seasons.

Kyle has a 5-3 advantage head-to-head win.
Bronco has a 5-3 advantage in overall records and rankings.

btw, forgot to give Kyle credit for his two losses to 10-loss teams, and his losses to every bottom dwelling team in the MWC - Wyoming, Colorado State, New Mexico, and UNLV - teams Bronco never lost to.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@clehman

The article wasn't "proof" of anything, it was speculation based on some similarities, and yes there are quite a few similarities. I'm guessing you are one of those guys that takes every single thing literally and has no concept of sarcasm, generalities, or even similarities. You are incapable of disseminating the difference between speculation and statements of fact.

The article was SPECULATION based on similarities. I can see the similarities, I can see the point rock was making, I can take it for what it is. Of course no one KNOWS how utah's future will turn out but all we have to guess with is the past and the present and the past and the present is not very good.

Utefan4Lyf
West Jordan, UT

@Cougars1:
There was no spin. I agree wholeheartedly with U90. It's a pretty simple concept. And as for your question about the PAC I can honestly answer that the Utes have entered into a much tougher conference with teams who have had years to recruit higher caliber players. That coupled with the Utes trouble at QB and last year on the O line has made the transition difficult. Fair enough?

Cougars1
Bluffdale, UT

Ute4life,
Fair enough. I also think the coaching staff is going through a learning curve as they adjust to playing tougher teams week in and week out. I just hope the fans are patient with them as they adjust.

phoenix
Gilbert, AZ

Spokane Ute

One game does not a season make; and one season does not a career make.

I know it bugs U that Bronco has achieved more overall than Kyle during the Bronco/Kyle era, but that's just the way it is.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@PAC man

You mean the same flash-in-the-pan 2008 season that you Quested for? That same flash-in-the-pan season that Bronco is still Questing" for 6 years later?

In the last three years in MWC:

1. TCU 36-3 (all 3 loses to AP ranked teams)
2. Utah 33-6 (all 6 loses to AP ranked teams)
3. BYU 28-11

In 2010 BYU finished 5th overall in a 3 team MWC at 6-6. You started out 2-5 including being exposed by 4-8 Utah State 38-16. Then qualified for a Bowl by beating teams with a combined record of 9-40 and because of an alum in the replay booth. Beat 6-7 UTEP in New Mexico and carried Bronco off the field.

Since then...

1. TCU 18-7 (11-2 MWC 7-6 Big 12)
2. BYU 18-8 (Indy)
2. Utah 13-12 (PAC-12)

AP Rankings:
Bronco - 2006 #16, 2007 #14, 2008 #25, 2009 #12
Kyle - 2008 #2, 2009 #18

So Bronco has 0 undefeated teams, 0 BCS wins, 0 top 10, 2 top 15, 4 top 25
Kyle has the highest ranked mid-major team under BCS rules

TheSportsAuthority
Arlington, VA

Uteology

"In the last three years in MWC:"

Gotta laugh at the time snippets you're forced to use to help you sleep at night.

Why not use the last five years in the MWC, giving Bronco a year to rebuild from Crowton's ashes?

Overall Record (2006-2010)
Bronco 50-15
Kyle 50-15

AP Top 25
Bronco 16, 14, 25, 12
Kyle 2, 18

Coaches Top 25
Bronco 15, 15, 21, 12
Kyle 4, 18, 23

Top 15 Finishes
Bronco 3
Kyle 1

Conference Championships
Bronco 2
Kyle 1

10+ Win Seasons
Bronco 4
Kyle 2

Head-to-head
Bronco 3
Kyle 2

Conference Finishes
Bronco 1, 1, 3, 2, 3 - Average 2.0
Kyle 3, 3, 1, 3, 2 - Average 2.4

Average Sagarin Ranking
Bronco 26
Kyle 29

---------------------
Since then, Independent/PAC era

Bronco 18-8
Kyle 13-12

Top 25 Finishes
Bronco 1
Kyle 0

Bowl Wins
Bronco 2
Kyle 1

Average Sagarin Ranking
Bronco 30
Kyle 50

Kyle had one great, undefeated, Top 5, flash-in-the-pan season, in 2008.

Bronco had three very good, 11-win, Top 15 seasons in 2006, 2007, and 2009.

Overall, Bronco > Kyle.

Just the FAX
Olympus Cove, Utah

TheSportsAuthority

"Bronco had three very good, 11-win, Top 15 seasons in 2006, 2007, and 2009."

Outside of their undefeated 12-0 and 13-0 seasons in 2004 and 2008, the Utes have never had an 11-win season.

Put another way, Bronco had more 11-win seasons in the space of four years, than the Utes have had in their entire history.

During the same period, Bronco had four straight AP Top 25 finishes; the Utes have never had more than two AP Top 25 finishes in a row.

GoRed
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

*Yawn*

All of the irrelevant secondary facts in the world won't change the only stat that counts: HEAD-TO-HEAD COMPETITION!

That would be 3 in a row, 4 out of 5, 8 out of 11, and overall 56-34-4.

Advantage Utah. Forever.

TheSportsAuthority
Arlington, VA

GoRed

"All of the irrelevant secondary facts in the world won't change the only stat that counts: HEAD-TO-HEAD COMPETITION!"

If that were true, then

UNLV(2-10) was BETTER than Utah(9-4)

Colorado(3-10) was BETTER than Utah(8-5)

and

Texas A&M was BETTER than undisputed National Champion Alabama
(which, btw, received EVERY 1st-place vote in both the AP and Coaches polls).

Funny how Texas A&M's head-to-head win over Alabama was COMPLETELY IGNORED by every single voter in the final polls.

Despite Utah fans' frantic and emotional attempts to ignore reality, there's far more to judging which team is BETTER each season, than one head-to-head game.

talkinsports
Gilbert, AZ

TheSportsAuthority

"Funny how Texas A&M's head-to-head win over Alabama was COMPLETELY IGNORED by every single voter in the final polls."

So if Texas A&M were Utah, and BYU was Alabama, Utah fans would be claiming that Utah was BETTER than the national champion, even though BYU finished #1 in the polls, with every single #1 vote in both polls, and Utah finished #5 in both polls.

All based on the fallacious argument that "All of the irrelevant secondary facts in the world won't change the only stat that counts: HEAD-TO-HEAD COMPETITION!"

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