Comments about ‘Brad Rock: Could Utah football be the new Arizona?’

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Published: Saturday, Aug. 3 2013 8:13 p.m. MDT

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Y>U
Anaheim, CA

Utefan4Lyf

Step into the modern era.

Since color television replaced radio and b&w television,

BYU is 29-21 versus Utah.

More importantly, in the national rankings, BYU leads Utah 17-5 in AP Top 25 finishes.

At Utah's current rate of one AP Top 25 finish every 13 seasons, it'll take the Utes approximately 156 years to match BYU's current total of 17 AP Top 25 finishes.

Of course, since BYU has averaged one AP Top 25 finish every 2 seasons for the past 36 seasons, by the time Utah reaches SEVENTEEN, BYU will have approximately NINETY-TWO AP Top 25 finishes!

U 90
Corona, CA

@Swoop "5 of the last 8 seasons, BYU has finished with a better record and higher ranking than Utah"

When you look at W-L records shouldn't you also look at SOS? One team is 5-7 with an SOS on the low 40's, while the other team went 7-5 in the regular season with an SOS in the high 60's. The 5-7 team then goes on to beat the 7-5 team in the head-to-head match up. Who's the better team?

Utah probably would have finished 7-5 or better if they would have loaded up their schedule with Idaho, Hawaii, Weber State and New Mexico State. There's more to the analysis than just W-L records. That's why a 2 loss SEC team can make it to the NC game... SOS.

U 90
Corona, CA

@Y>U

Step into the really modern era.

Since 2000 Utah leads the head-to-head 8-5

More importantly, in top 5 rankings Utah leads BYU 2-0. In big-time bowl victories Utah is 2 while BYU doesn't even have an appearance.

At BYU's current rate of getting in to a top level bowl, it will take approximately infinity to match Utah's success.

BYUHOCKEY
American Fork, UT

what was interesting last year is that USU beat Utah, Utah Beat BYU and BYU barely beat USU on BYU's home turf. USU has the best QB in the state in Chuckie K.
I am glad that Brad Rock agrees with my vision for Utah football. Utah and Colorado were invited into the Pac10 in order to take the place of ASU and AZ as non-threats to the PAC12 championship. As USC and Oregon exchange good seasons for great seasons tainted by cheating Utah will occasionally be allowed to win the southern division but likely not get to the rose bud bowl.

skywalker
Palo Alto, CA

U 90

@Swoop: "When you look at W-L records shouldn't you also look at SOS?"

Why?

The rankings already consider SOS when they're calculated, so why are Utah fans constantly whining about SOS?

During the last two seasons, with SOS already calculated in the rankings formula, BYU's average Sagarin ranking has been #30; Utah's has been #50.

A team that's proven that they're capable of losing to ANYBODY (see UNLV and Colorado), can't be considered a lock to beat anybody.

Playing BYU's schedule, it's a given that Utah would have lost to Utah State, Oregon State, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, Boise State, and San Jose State, so at best, Utah would have finished 6-6, with a loss to SDSU in the Poinsettia Bowl, to finish 6-7. With an upset loss to any of BYU's remaining opponents, the Utes would have finished 5-7, just like they finished against their own slightly tougher schedule.

clehman
Sandy, UT

@phoenix

"What happened at Arizona is exactly the same thing that IS happening at Utah."

It's like talking to a wall. A few similarities don't mean anything when there are as many or more differences between the schools.

@DH

Your logic is fallacious. You say that Utah's funding and location are at the bottom of the conference in your argument that Utah will never be a top team in the conference; yet Washington State makes less money, has a worse location, and has been to multiple Rose Bowls.

I'm not saying Utah will be a perennial Rose Bowl team and never have. I'm not one of those Ute fans.

I'm just saying that this is a really fallacious argument in total, because Arizona is not Utah. Period.

Utefan4Lyf
West Jordan, UT

@Y>U: How easy is it to determine a win-loss record by taking a subsection of the entire range? You can see that it can work to anybody's advantage. Are you saying every win or loss prior to 1963 should just be wiped clean? If that is the case, I agree with U 90, every loss prior to 2000 should be removed. After all, we're in a new century. In that case, it will take at least four years to catch up. Still, good luck with that.

LonestarRunner
Salt Lake City, UT

U 90

Since when did the modern era begin in 2000?

If you want to talk relevant, recent history:

During the Bronco/Kyle era

Top 25 Finishes
Bronco 5
Kyle 3

Top 15 Finishes
Bronco 3
Kyle 1

Conference Championships
Bronco 2
Kyle 1

Overall
Bronco has finished ahead of Kyle in records AND rankings in 5 of the last 8 seasons.

Since Kyle's flash-in-the-pan 2008 season:

Top 25 Wins
Bronco 2 - #18/#18 and #16/#
Kyle 1 - ur/#25

Top 25 Rankings
Bronco 2 - #12/#12, ur/#25
Kyle 2 - #18/#18, ur/#23

Bowl Record
Bronco 4-0
Kyle 2-1

jeru0455
SALEM, OR

Did someone on here seriously say that they think that BYU will be competing for National Championships?! Is that a joke?

Cougars1
Bluffdale, UT

Ute4life,
My mistake. Hank was comparing players. But there you go measuring Utah's success based upon their record against BYU. Great, let us know when Utah will beat a team on the PAC with a winning record.

Utefan4Lyf
West Jordan, UT

Cougars1: You are still misinterpreting. I'm not measuring Utah's overall success, I'm measuring their success against BYU because I'm responding to a BYU fan and that is only thing that counts. Unless both teams play the exact same schedule, then the rest doesn't matter. I can get into SOS and some other stats, but that still doesn't definitely tell us who is better. Only playing each other does. So, therefore, Utah is better than BYU because our record against BYU proves it.

Cougars1
Bluffdale, UT

Ute4,
I am not arguing that BYU is better. They need to neat Utah to prove that. I never said BYU was better. All I am saying is that Utah fans measure the success of their team based on how they do against BYU. Once again, show me where I ever said BYU was better.

Swoop
Salt Lake City, UT

Utefan4Lyf

LOL at your delusional spin.

You can compare teams based on SOS, but you can't compare teams based on ranking?

You do realize, don't you, that SOS is derived by adding up the rankings of all opponents, and then dividing by the number of opponents to calculate their average ranking?

And, since when does one game in twelve provide definitive proof of which team is better?

Was UNLV(10-2) BETTER than Utah(9-4) in 2007?
Was Colorado(10-3) BETTER than Utah(8-5) in 2011?
Was Texas A&M BETTER than Alabama in 2012?

BETTER not just for one game, but BETTER overall for the entire season?

It's laughable that Utah fans continue to claim something that they don't even believe themselves, except when it comes to comparing BYU and Utah.

It simply demonstrates how desperately you'll cling to any argument, regardless of how ridiculous, as long as it gives you even the tiniest hope of being better than BYU at something.

Higher Ranking = Better Team

Even you believe that, so stop pretending it's not true.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@clehman

Oh I got your "point" just fine, you just were wrong about it. The point of the article, which you have apparently missed completely, is that utah appears to be heaed toward the bottom of the conference with no rose bowl appearances ever, and that is exactly what arizona has been in the pac 10. So no utah cannot litterally be arizona, and you taking it that litterally is pretty amusing, the point rock made was utah is looking like they'll be every bit as pathetic as arizona and I would say that appears to be a very apt comparison on rocks part.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@clehman

Talk about "fallacious". You try to use washington st as a point in an argument about utah being compared to arizona while trying to say you can't make an argument between utah and arizona. Why is it ok to compare utah to washington st but not arizona? Typical utah "fan" double standard on display.

You are correct, utah IS NOT arizona. utah is a worse location, with worse weather, and has far less funding than arizona does. utah is a btter location than washington st, you'll notice I said utah was in the 2nd worst location, but utah's funding is less than washington st's so you probably need to do your research there.

All in all utah has the most knocks against it in the conference when you compare all the factors needed to be good. I showed them pretty well. In fact utah doesn't have any advantages at all when compared to the remainder of the conference. They may have one or two advantages over a couple of the other teams that occupy the bottom of the conference with them but on the whole they trail even those other bottom feeders.

Utefan4Lyf
West Jordan, UT

I didn't say you did. I told you that Utah fans use BYU as a measuring stick to show that Utah is better when responding to a BYU fan.

2BCSWINS
West of I15, UT

@lonestarrunner....If you want to talk relevant, recent history:

During the Bronco/Kyle era

Top 25 Finishes
Bronco 5
Kyle 3

Top 15 Finishes
Bronco 3
Kyle 1

Why don't you list top 5 finishes and head to head vs the two? Also your bowl record for the bronco/kyle era is way off

U 90
Corona, CA

Cougars1,

In most cases Utah fans are not gauging success on comparisons with BYU. Beating BYU seems rather easy lately. What ends up happening on these threads is BYU fan will say, "Utah is a doormat". Then Ute fan responds with, "BYU can't beat that doormat, what does that say about BYU?' To which the Y fan response, "BYU is your measuring stick, therefore you must be little brother".

It's all pretty foolish, so I'll tell you what, I will agree that BYU has more national prominence all-time in football, if you will agree that Utah has owned BYU and has more national prominence over the past 10 years (kind of the opposite of basketball). Can you agree to that?

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@Lonestarrunner

Why do never include head to head record or BCS bowls? Do you ever get tired of posting the same biased, slanted stats over, and over again? It grows old and tiresome.

clehman
Sandy, UT

@DH

I was using your fallacy as an illustration, not as a point in any of my own arguments.

It's not about whether or not Utah is literally Arizona or vice versa. The argument simply can't be made that Utah will end up like Arizona in football because there are a few similarities between the two.

The reason? There are probably far more differences between the two programs than similarities... which renders the whole article unreliable as any type of proof.

I can't wait till the actual ball is in the air and the scores are on the board so the BYU trolls will crawl back under their bridges for another year.

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