CVgalYou are so very, very accurate in your statement. On any LDS/DN news
report there are a dozen or so self-proclaimed sincere,inquisitive, critics of
anything relating to LDS faith, beliefs, and practices. Nothing on earth will
convince them. More temple information is NOT forthcoming. Do NOT hold your
breath. Purple is not likely your best color.
I have been reading the comments in here and would like to say that there is no
reasoning with people who want to find fault with the LDS people. As a former
non-denominational minister who converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints just over a decade ago, I tell you to take the time and
actually read the Book of Mormon and pray about it, the Holy Spirit will leave
no doubt about it being God's word.I gave up my church, my friends
and my family to join the true church. When I first went to the Temple, there
was a lot to learn, a lot to understand... I am still learning... No one can
tell you what you will learn in the temple, and seeing the video or reading
about the covenants will have no meaning to you unless you do so under the
instruction of the Holy Spirit. Mat. 13:11 "He answered and said unto them,
Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but
to them it is not given."
An interesting discussion here. It is indicative of the fact that our culture
is losing sight of what "sacred" and "reverence" mean. So far,
it appears to me that both the law and the majority still feel that some
expressions of human intimacy should be kept private. LDS people would actually
say they are sacred and thus should be kept private.Those that want
everything "public" to satisfy their curiosity (at best) just need to
realize that some people have a different concept of privacy, reverence, and the
sacred than they do. They are free to not understand, but they shouldn't
obsess over something that doesn't concern them. Do they also worry about
the color of the floor coverings in their neighbor's master bathroom?The same can be said with regards to symbolism as a part of religious
worship. Many "modern" people don't seem to have an appreciation
of meaningful symbolism. For many, symbolism seems to be confused with wanting
a "swish" or "bitten apple" symbol on your consumer product.
The first principle of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is faith. Would you like more
knowledge and help from God? Are you willing to ask for help His way?I assume you follow your conscience when making important decisions, and have
a of right and wrong. Now just exercise a little faith. Even if you don't
believe in God, please accept my assurance that He does live. He has answered
my prayers, so He will surely answer yours.The beginning of faith is
to exercise a little believe that I am right. Or even just have a little desire
to believe. That is enough to start. Use that desire to ask God in private
prayer to know more about Him.He will hear you. His Spirit will
encourage you to go on, and you will know if it is good or bad to do so.This faith is not blind. It is based on what you already know to be
good. This exercise of faith will lead you to know how to make life better for
you and yours. Don't take my word for it. Ask Someone infinitely smarter
and more loving.
There are a few minor changes in the script in the new film.
It's very difficult, in a culture that thinks there is no information, no
detail, no place that should be free from the glare of public attention, to
explain a place like the Temple. There will always be those who mistake the
place set apart for something secret, exclusive and shameful. The
other side of the "open the Temples to everyone" argument is far more
important. Temple-going Mormons have an unique obligation to preserve and
protect the sacred places of those not of their faith. We have a
tendency to be insular, to think that we are the only people who wear clothing
representative of our covenants to God, to have sacred places, set apart from
the world, reserved for our most sacred expressions of faith. We aren't. I
believe that part of my obligation as a Latter-Day Saint is to respect the faith
traditions of those who don't share my faith.
@Brother Ben @ChrisB,LDS Members Or anyone that is interested.First,
I believe there were many LDS members that quickly got offensive with the
comments about why things of the temple are not revealed to outsiders. But
making offensive comments, or quickly biting back is only going to produce more
tension and dispute.It is enough to say that it is not anyone's
will here on earth, neither is it the member of the Quorum of the 12 nor the
President of the church himself that can make the call of revealing things of
the temple. This is an instruction that members of the LDS church believe came
directly from God. It is his will that these things be kept to members of the
church that are worthy to enter. He has already prescribed what is to be done
within the temple and what the requirements are to participate of these
things.And who are we to argue against that? Members or no members.
There is no need to explain further Lastly, I would like to thank
@Brother Ben for his honesty and his visiting the temple which greatly enhanced
his concept of it for the better.
To faithful Latter-day Saints,It is useless to wrestle with
individuals who do not, (nor want to) understand our most sacred beliefs, on a
message board. If they really want to learn, this setting is not the most
appropriate place to share our beliefs. We have many wonderful Brothers and
Sisters not of our faith who want to know, but being antagonistic on the
Internet does not warrant a response from us. It is better to leave certain
people unanswered or outright ignored. To those that sincerely want
to learn of our beliefs,How we love you and would love to speak with
you given the chance in an appropriate setting and spirit. Maybe a more intimate
setting other than a message board would be best to communicate sacred truths we
hold dear to us. May God bless you, please ask your questions to a LDS friend or
Their's alot of comments posted, that remind me why we keep the temple
I don't understand the point of pretending that the Temple rites are a
hidden secret when it's all easily available on the Internet. Public
revelation by the church would enable them to correct errors promulgated by
those sites and address misconceptions and misunderstandings.
Brother Ben the temple is a house of order - sacred ordinances are done in
order, it is a house of learning - we go to the temple to learn and each time we
go with the right attitude of why we are there, even thought the endowment is
the same for everyone each time we go we learn something new. We must first
however receive the endowment for ourselves before we can do the work for our
ancestors. The temple is a house of prayer. Many go to the temple to pray to
receive guidance to that day's problems whether it's whether or not
they should buy a house, move or how to handle a family member's
illness.I would love to share this part of the gospel with my
non-member friends. But I can share the beauty of the pictures. A neighbor that
I have met in the temple. The temple endowment is in the scriptures just take
the time to read them.
Thinkman-I am sorry you went to the temple for 25 years and felt it
wasn't of much value. My experiences have been different and going to the
temple has helped guide me in my personal life and strengthen my relationship
with the Savor.It is also good to keep in mind that temple work is
not just about you or obtaining more spiritual knowledge. You well know temple
work is for others who cannot receive ordinances of salvation for themselves.
Maybe your temple experiences would have been more positive if had continued
seeking out your ancestors and did their temple work. Also, you are
well aware tithing is not the only requirement for a recommend. There is much
more. It is also good to keep in mind that any income you earn by the sweat of
your brow is not really yours to begin with. Tithing is simply giving back 10%
of the 100% God gave us since he organized / created the Earth. We are all
eternal beggars and 10% is a small price to give back. I'll pay my tithing
any day. Lastly, just remember the Savior gave his life for you! He
paid the ultimate price.
The new temple film is wonderful! The two main characters actually have a
loving relationship. They look to each other for guidance. They consult with
each other. They even hug. What a far better example of equal partnership than
the previous temple films ever gave us. Bravo!
Everyone: 1) The Latter-Day Saints are a covenant making people. 2) Most things
are learned as we strive to obey and have the help of the Holy Ghost. 3) As we
learn more and make more covenants we gain more responsibility and are held
responsible to higher standards by God and the Church. That is why the Savior
taught in parables, ensuring those that will not follow are not handed more,
causing them to be judged harder.The Temple is where we make several
covenants with God. The teachings and covenants are inseparable. If people
don't heed the warnings and don't "enter by the path specified by
Christ", they curse themselves. They will be judged by the knowledge they
gain, even though they don't have the background requisite for
understanding and following.Discussing sacred things just anywhere with
just anyone makes those sacred things not feel sacred. That reduces our respect,
even for God.
Thinkman,I am not sure the temple has provided me with any insight
into mysteries. But I don’t think that is its purpose. I find it a place
where I can feel the Holy Ghost in a more pure and unfettered fashion than most
anywhere else. Did you never feel that peace?Pamelark,During the temple recommend interviews I have been involved with, the tithing
question is one of a series of short questions. It is no more or less important
than the other questions. However, there are several questions that involve
more significant thought about where we are in our lives and why. Take the
tithing question out completely and there would be perhaps a few more attending.
But there are more significant issues in my experience.
Put pressure on Church officials and members? Are you kidding me? The Church,
especially the Prophet and the Brethren do not give in to "pressure." Go
ahead and tell them that. You will get a firm response. The Church does not bend
it's ways to please the world. We're here to please God, nothing less.
1.96,So the best way to learn what mysteries and knowledge can be
found in the temple is to join the LDS church, pay at minimum 10% of your hard
earned income and then go get a temple recommend?I was an active
member of the church for nearly 40 years. I taught Gospel Doctrine for 5 years
and Elders quorum, attended the temple over the span of 25 years and saw
multiple changes.I didn't gain any knowledge, insight or find
out any mysteries to life that I didn't already know and discover outside
the temple. Happy2behere,I agree with you. The church
should produce about 30-40 versions of the movie instead of just relying on 1 or
2. I always liked the one with the brunette couple best and the one with the
blonde couple in the 1980s. But, I would often find myself dozing.
I find it curious people accuse the church of hiding temple rituals. The church
sends tens of thousands of missionaries to preach the gospel to the entire world
(where the church is accepted). Part of this preaching includes a goal to go to
the temple after a baptism. It is also re-iterated on Sunday meetings as one is
learning more about the gospel. In sum, the church wants EVERYONE to
go to the temple. And to go to the temple, one needs to be prepared spiritually.
Curiosity is not preparation. Talk to the missionaries, they can help you
prepare spiritually for your temple journey.
Brother Benjamin Franklin....how about if we all come over to your house, day
and night, and see what you're doing, how you live your life, what you eat,
etc., etc. etc. and pick it apart. But wait. I really don't care. Why do
you care so much about Mormons? Try New York, or Los Angeles, or Chicago.
Hey....Detroit!!! Help those people find the right path since you seem to know
what it is.
Why hide it? To keep it 'exclusive' so the faithful will keep on
paying. Because no matter how many good deeds have been done, prayers said,
scriptures pored over.....unless the bottom line (the tithing) is met, the
temple recommend won't be issued. Anything can be said about anything at
the recommend interview(s) and there may well be economy with the truth but if
that cash figure's not in place, the stark economics of lds come into play.
So no - they're not about to admit all & sundry anytime soon - they
just couldn't cope with the lost income.
I have not come close to reading all of the posts, so I'm guessing that
I'm not the first with this. A new film will likely get more of us Temple
recommend holders out to do Temple work. I wish the Church would produce about
30 different films so that each time one would likely see a new one with
different actors. I know how sacred and important the work is, but we all know
how it can get boring to watch the same film over and over and
Brother Benjamin Franklin:If it hasn't been suggested by
someone else, read Boyd K. Packer's "The Holy Temple". It explains
many of the things about the temple and why they are not open to the general
public. In the Old Testament, the temples the Jew had were not open to the
general public either; this is not a new concept. However, I do know
that having temple weddings can be a real issue when one of the couple is a
convert. In the past, many Mormons have been insensitive to the feelings of a
convert's parents. We have gotten better at accommodating this by having
ring ceremonies right after the temple ceremony so that the entire family can
participate in the great day. We do need to be better in explaining
why the temple is closed to those who are not living in a way required to enter.
My best answer simply is that it is the Lord’s house and He sets the rules
for entering; no amount of pressure will change the entrance requirements, nor
the responsibility to not reveal the specifics of the convents or symbolism we
learn in the temple.
I respect the LDS church and their temples. People should respect the
sacredness of every belief, and or religion, from scientology's activities
to the sacredness of the FSM's colander.
To: Christopher B, Ogden, UT: I am not of the LDS faith and yet seem to
completely understand that certain religous ceremonies take place in a temple
while others take place in the neighborhood church buildings. Even I understand
that if you want to know more, simply take the lessons and go through the
process of joining the church and living your life to be accepted into the
temple. I am always amazed at people in Utah and their understanding or
misunderstanding of the LDS Church. This is not a tough subject to understand.
It has never been the teaching of the LDS Church that God does not change. Just
read Joseph Smith (and by extension his teachings in the PoGP & the
D&C). It has ALWAYS been the teaching of the LDS Church that God is
eternal, omnipotent, and as powerful in our lives as we let Him be. (That is, He
can't save us from ourselves if we choose to be willfully disobedient.)Frankly, I like the way jeanie put it.
"All who are worthy and qualify in every way may enter the temple, there to
be introduced to the sacred rites and ordinances". The Holy Temple by
President Boyd K. Packer
The temple and it's ceremony is very sacred. The church does not need to
make it public so that enemies of the church can belittle, degrade and drag it
through the mud. I love the temple. It is a wonderful place.
I was very moved by the new film. Even just the pace and the voice in which the
dialog is delivered helped me to get new insights from it. It made my experience
that much more special last week. I think most people would be
surprised at the simplicity and innocuous nature of the temple film and
ordinances and probably wonder what all the fuss is about. I promise it’s
not deep or dark or mysterious. Even some who have prepared for the experience
often don’t get a great deal out of it the first time, which is why
we’re encouraged to return frequently. It’s like reading the
scriptures multiple times and seeing and understanding the various layers of
meaning the more you read and study. As in so much of the Gospel, the
scriptures, the parables, and in the Law of Moses, symbolism is used to teach.
Without the background knowledge, joined with study and prayer to understand the
meaning of the symbols, it’s just a nice movie – in the same way
that to some people the Bible is just a collection of stories.
Elliottpj,For me, the covenants help direct me closer to Christ.
There is the understanding of how God and Christ direct. There is the concept
of reporting to Christ. Just my thoughts.I don’t judge you
for not getting it. BTW, I did not grow up LDS.atl134,It has nothing to do with anyone’s grandparent being good enough. Yes,
it is about the validity of the ordinances but that is in no way personal. It
is not about whether Christ's sacrifice is sufficient but about compliance
with his commandment regarding baptism. Nor is the salvation dependent upon an
individual. In LDS doctrine, the millennium will assure all the opportunity.
And it is always a choice.A ScientistIt is a maturity in
the faith. Nothing more. But why do you care? You think it is all fantasy
anyway so why worry about being admitted?As to “secrecy and
suspicion”. Surely you know that this can all be had on the internet.
These don't transmit proper context, but it is there.Finally,
Christ himself required things not be shared.
@Christopher B: There are different levels of sacred experiences. If one rejects
the fullness of the Gospel, perferring only the part they have (even though that
part is almost certainly a good thing and a blessing in their lives), then how
can they ever understand the teachings of the Temple? Why do you think the first
Apostles spoke about milk before meat (1 Corinthians 3:2, Hebrews 5:12)? Do you
think it's because no one else could have sacred experiences? Do you think
it's because they were sinister, secretive people? No, it's because
they knew that wisdom and truth recieve their own. If you want greater truth,
you must embrace truth, not seek after mysteries you can't understand (see
Jacob 4:14). You must sactify yourself by living the pure standards required of
those who attend the temple. In short, your own Temple of flesh and spirit
(Soul) must be pure for you to be able to appreciate and understand the light of
a Temple made from stone. There are no shortcuts, and, even if LDS people told
all, the sacred wisdom and light we receive would not transfer that way.
Hey Elliottpj..Anyone who judges you period.... doesn't get it.
Whether LDS or not....If they are judging you then they are worse off than you
are. We are all equals in the eyes of God.... We don't have the right to
judge anyone. if we do.. we will be accountable...But you said it
well... you don't understand the purpose of the temple... you don't
understand the teachings and principles... but you don't as a result judge
other members of the LDS faith.I would hope that someday you would
get it and be able to understand and enjoy the temple... but if not... It
doesn't mean you are not a good person or deserving of the Lords blessings
/ assistance...One of the challenges we have in life is judging
something by its participants. I am a long time member of the LDS faith and do
attend the temple regularly.. but if I allowed the actions of other members to
affect my activity, participation and belief structure.......I would be in bad
shape. I believe in the teaching and doctrines of the church...I worship Jesus
Christ.. not other members...
Daugher of G-d,Sorry to be a Grammar Cop: The word you obviously
meant was "prescribed": To establish rules, laws, or directions. "Proscribed" is very different: To denounce, condemn, prohibit;
forbid. Bro. Ben and others seem already eager enough to
misunderstand and deride.
Trying to convince someone who has posted here anything contrary to what they
have stated or written is not worth the time..The are always going
to be people with mis-guided opinions and feelings toward something they either
don't understand or don't agree with. It bothers some people to not
know what other do...Also, anyone that puts all their trust in what
they read or find on the internet is in for a rude awakening someday... Unless
you believe the car commercial when it says "Everything on the internet is
true"... because the internet say it is !!Just think... why
would anyone that has good feelings about any subject write derogatory comments
on the internet... If you read something about the temple ceremonies or what
"goes on" in the temple that is not to be shared.... why do you think it
is being shared ? Because that person either has no idea what he / she is
talking about, is posting what he / she heard or even worse is bitter and upset
with the church and its teachings. Any of which would concern me.Everyone can have an opinion or idea... but that is all they are...
For those people that question the privacy placed around temple worship, I might
just ask you to look at your Old Testament. Sacred temple worship has been
around for thousands of years. It is not new with The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints. Study your Bible a bit and you will find that ancient
temples were most sacred and that only certain people were allowed to
No one has ever explained to me how the temple draws people to Christ. I was a
member of the Church for many years and I never had a burning desire to go to
the temple. They were just beautiful buildings to me. I still love the the LDS
faith, but I will never understand it fully, and I'm tired of trying to
sort through all the misinformation and confusion. I'm sure those of you
who love the temple will always judge those of us who just don't get it. I
get that. Whether sacred or secret, it still is all rather strange to those of
us who didn't grew up LDS, just as you all think we Catholics are rather
peculiar people too.
Brother Benjamin....The Church is not evasive.... There are certain
things in life that are sacred and we believe what goes on in the temple is one
of those things and should not be discussed (even amongst ourselves) outside the
temples. We believe temples to be the house of the Lord and all are welcome to
attend and participate. However, Unlike chapels, a certain level of obedience
and worthiness is required to enter. Evidently it is too difficult for people
such as yourself to respect this and trust what we communicate.Prior
to entering the temple an understanding and testimony of the Gospel and its
teachings is required. Once a person has this, the joy can be un-measureable
(if that is a word).Wanting to know what goes on and what the temple
ordinances are all about just to know is not reason enough. There are many
members of the church who have not yet been able to attend the temple. They
know very little if anything more than what you know.Anytime someone
says, I think... or in my opinion... or I heard.... it is just that.. an idea,
an opinion or gossip.
Re: Brother Benjamin FranklinMy respect for you just grew three
What is most important to remember is that in every ordinance, blessings,
responsibilities, and consequences are attached. If one who doesn't hold
the ordinances received sacred, they are liable to the eternal consequences
because they did not keep their end of the promise. A covenant is a strong,
binding promise made between the Lord and His children. If the Latter-day Saint
Church were to openly allow anyone to partake when they are not spiritually
prepared, those individuals would suffer eternal consequences that Lord has
prescribed for that ordinance. It is for the protection of all to keep these
things sacred according to His will. How fair would it be to allow so many to
go through that? It is not fair at all. So the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints maintains the standards of worthiness to enter the temple so
that those who make these covenants at least understand the depth of what kind
of covenants they are making and are fully prepared to take on that kind of
Let's consider the very nature of what is considered scared by the Lord.
It is by no means meant to be secret but rather protected for the eternal safety
of the ones receiving the ordinance and those who are not yet ready. The Lord
has prescribed the manner in which one prepares themselves for adding to their
eternal knowledge. Those who have become acquainted with the Spirit and are
humble to receive His ordinances by living His standards are considered ready.
Even during the ordinances, people are warned that these things are very sacred
and are not to be treated lightly. It is not that nothing else is sacred, but
rather it is the MOST sacred thing available to mankind. This is precious
knowledge that is given to those who are willing to do what it takes to follow
the Lord and keep His commandments as He has established them.
@MHBSaltLakeCity"There only two possible true Christian churches
Catholics or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."Why does the "true" church even have to be around right now anyway?
Even with LDS belief there was around a 1000 year stretch where such a church
didn't exist until the restoration. I don't see why we should assume
there is a true church on the planet right now, let alone that it must be one of
these two. "If we are not true than there is nothing to worry
about."Of course, but there would still be the matter of someone
implicitly slighting the faith of another which is still considered rude to a
large segment of the population (particularly members of Christian faiths being
deemed invalid, maybe that's why my atheist dad was the only one in my
family to not mind the idea of proxy baptisms). That was my point.
jeanie, that was a wonderful comment about how God "can change methods to
teach the same principles". I think Jesus used several different
parables to teach the same principle while he taught on the earth. He also
taught "don't cast your pearls before swine", and "he that hath
ears, let him hear". Paul taught "milk before meat". Until one is
ready to FULLY understand the deeper meanings of the gospel, it is best to use
an appropriate message that a foundation can be built, faith can be exercised,
and then the building can be built that will not fall and you will be able to
see from a different vantage point as that building continues to be erected
higher and higher, with each level providing a better view (increased
understanding) and Spirit is able to commune with you according to your faith
and dedication to the deeper covenants that are available. Isaiah taught
"Line upon line, precept upon precept."
I hate to inform some of the readers on here, but the LDS church does not have a
monopoly on families. Other religions and non religions do believe in families,
some may even focus more on the family. Don't let others fool you,
families are forever no matter what. They are forever in existence and forever
in non existence.
Lovely thread going on here.Now, comparisons are used so you can
relate...somehow.Have you seen inside of presidents office? No? Because
you don't have sufficient access? Bummer. I work at a place that only
people with special permissions can enter. Namely badged employees. I can get
into the manufacturing part of the building but other employees can't. Why?
We are all employees! Maybe they're "'unworthy, immature, and
undignified' for the owners tastes"? Not at all. I've had the
proper training and have been prepared to do so. If you haven't had that
training, you shouldn't enter that portion of the building. I'm not
going to tell you what happens in there in detail because I said I wouldn't
and could lose my job if I do but I can show you brochures prepared by the
company.Until you've had the proper training and met the guidelines
set by God to enter the temple, you won't get in. I can't tell you
what goes on in there because I promised I wouldn't. I can direct you to
the church's websites.See the parallels?
What goes in in Mormon temples? There are quite a few worthwhile links on
lds.org if you want to search them. I tried posting them here, but the site
would not allow it. As an analogy: Just as advanced calculus would
not make sense to a freshman in college who has not taken and mastered Algebra
and , the temple ceremony is reserved for those who have made previous covenants
with God and now desire to learn more of his ways, make higher covenants, and
draw nearer to him. To path is clear as stated by Daughter of G-d, and that path
will not change.
" Mormons think me and people like me are too "unworthy, immature, and
undignified" for god's tastes"A Scientist, nothing
could be more further from the truth. But something tells me that you already
The temple covenants are the "meat" of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Perhaps this is what Paul was going to give to the people of Corinth when he
found that they were not yet ready. Not that they were not good people, but
that they simply were not yet prepared for the higher teachings of the Savior.
So he wrote to them: 1 Corinthians 3:2."And I, brethren, could not
speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in
Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not
able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able." It's obvious
that many of those posting comments here are still "babes" regarding
spiritual things and therefore not ready to learn about the "graduate
level" Christianity found in LDS temples. Babes are not bad - in fact they
are wonderfully innocent. But they have limited expeerience and understanding
and are not ready for "meat". No matter how much they demand it.
@atl134"You want to know why people have issues with proxy baptisms?
It's because you think someone like my grandmother weren't good
enough. That her life, her actions, her faith, her baptism in the Catholic
church, Christ's sacrifice... all of it is insufficient to you."There only two possible true Christian churches Catholics or the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If LDS is true then that means Baptism needs
to be done by someone with proper authority they must have the Priesthood power.
That means any baptism by other churches is invalid. An ice cream truck driver
can't marry you and your wife because he doesn't have the authority to
do it. It requires a judge or a priest/bishop or other religious head to marry
you. So baptism without proper authority (Priesthood) is therefore not valid.
1 CORINTHIANS 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the
dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
The bible shows proof of baptisms for the dead above.If we are not
true than there is nothing to worry about.
"Preparation for the ordinances includes preliminary steps: faith,
repentance, baptism, confirmation, worthiness, a maturity and dignity worthy of
one who comes invited as a guest into the house of the Lord."And
here, after all, is the crux of the issue: Mormons think me and people like me
are too "unworthy, immature, and undignified" for god's tastes.Need any more be said?
There are many reasons why the information is kept in the temple. The most
important is the more you know the more you are accountable for. It is darning
to not meet the requirements of the temple, but to know what goes on. If you
aren't living the requirements and you know what goes on you will be held
accountable for it. The more you know the more you will be judged based on what
you know and so ignorance is bliss phrase is applicable here.Another
reason is the information learned is high level and its like Calculus level
math. You don't introduce calculus info to an elementary level normal kid
they won't be able to understand/comprehend the calculus without prior
education. Members of the church are given the education needed so they can
understand what is taught in the temple, and even then it is hard for some
members to understand. To give the information to people with prior education
and say do this calculus test you won't be able to understand. Join and
learn what you can so you can understand the temple teachings! So if you want
to know join.
I logged in to read comments about new film and all I have seen is a lot of
unrelated and unnecessary debate and fault finding.
@grandmagreat"if not then you will not be able to experience the
sacred information that goes on in the Temples, or have an eternal family. You
might want to stop and think about this, Your Ancestors are waiting."You want to know why people have issues with proxy baptisms? It's
because you think someone like my grandmother weren't good enough. That her
life, her actions, her faith, her baptism in the Catholic church, Christ's
sacrifice... all of it is insufficient to you. Apparently Christ's
sacrifice is worthless without some other person happening to stumble upon her
records (which in her case of course is easy because after all she was alive 15
years ago) and happening to perform some action on her behalf. It's not
biblical when salvation is dependent on someone other than that individual and
Christ. Stop and think about that.
Stop trying to make sense with the two or three people on here that just desire
to keep their own opinion. It won't do anything to change them......
Also, part of the reason you don't get to know everything before you go is
that's silly - if you know it all before you go, what's the point of
providing that info once you're there? It would just be repetitive. That
aside though, FAITH is probably the biggest reason it's not all made known
before aside from worthiness/preparedness. If you're a member of the Church
with a testimony and you're preparing for the temple, obviously you have
faith in God and trust that the temple will be great. Pretty much everything
except specifics about different ordinances is covered in Elder Packer's
book "Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple" that you can get at Deseret
If you are not a member of the LDS Church and are curious about what goes on in
inside the temples, all you have to do is join the church, be an active member,
living all the principles, be a full tithe payer, Serve others, and want to be
with you family forever, then ou too can attend the Temples of the Church of
Jesus Chirst of Latter Day Saints. if not then you will not be able to
experience the sacred information that goes on in the Temples, or have an
eternal family. You might want to stop and think about this, Your Ancestors are
"The ordinances and ceremonies of the temple are simple. They are beautiful.
They are sacred. They are kept confidential lest they be given to those who are
unprepared. Curiosity is not a preparation. Deep interest itself is not a
preparation. Preparation for the ordinances includes preliminary steps: faith,
repentance, baptism, confirmation, worthiness, a maturity and dignity worthy of
one who comes invited as a guest into the house of the Lord. We must be prepared
before we go to the temple. We must be worthy before we go to the temple. There
are restrictions and conditions set. They were established by the Lord and not
by man. And, the Lord has every right and authority to direct that matters
relating to the temple be kept sacred and confidential." - Elder Boyd K.
Packer, "Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple"
For those who are asking why temple privileges are restricted to faithful Church
members and not the general public, it's not because we're trying to
keep things from you; it's that these experiences are for those who are
prepared. We are judged based on what we know and covenants we have made. If you
were to participate, you would receive knowledge you're not ready for and
make covenants you're not prepared to keep because you don't have a
testimony of or understand the sacredness of them. Expecting this of you
isn't fair. Since God is fair and gives us each what we need, he has
instructed that the temple ceremonies be kept for those who are prepared and
found worthy.[see my next comment for a quote from Elder Packer
Most people want to be privy to the secrets of others but to retain their own
privacy.God commanded the construction of a temple anciently; not
everyone could enter every part of the temple, one part could only be entered by
the high priest once a year.Jesus visited the Temple at Jerusalem
when he was twelve, and often taught there. He twice cleansed it of the
profiteering money changers and said "Zeal for Thy House has eaten me
up". The temple and especially the inner sanctuary was kept sacred. When
it was defiled it ultimately was destroyed. In Jeremiah's day the temple
was secretly used by apostates for pagan worship. It was soon thereafter
destroyed.After the death of Christ the apostles John and Peter went
up to the temple at the hour of prayer.That temple was also destroyed,
again because of general apostasy. This time it was the Romans, not the
Babylonians who did it.Finally the sons of Levi will AGAIN offer an
offering to the Lord in righteousness.
But beyond the secrecy and suspicion issue, Brother Benjamin makes an important
point: if what is taught in Temples is so wonderful and beneficial, why not give
it away for free to the whole world?Many defenders make an analogy
with math, saying you don't teach calculus before a student has mastered
algebra.But we also don't keep calculus "secret" and
restrict those who can have access to it. Anyone can open up a calculus text at
any time.Not so with the "higher math" of the Mormon
Temples.If the "higher math" of LDS temples is so valuable
and wonderful, then it is unethical to withhold it from the world.Others make the empty declaration "all are invited! You just have to do it
the right way!" This is an obvious copout, just as (in)effective in
protecting horrible, lethal secrets in doomsday cults and terrorist cells.The only reason for secrecy that holds any weight is the desire to not
be mocked. But then we must wonder what is going on that is so fragile? And what
a poor image of "outsiders" is assumed by such a paranoia? You distrust
your fellow man so profoundly?
I'll out myself right up front...I'm a non-member. It seems to me
that those calling for the CoJCoLDS to be "forthcoming" about temple
doings on are not really interested in learning about them from a purely
academic motive. As others have said, it is all on the net. Not only is it
there, it is so easy to find not only transcripts but actual films that even my
dog could find it and trust me he is not that bright. The intent then seemingly
becomes one of an attempt to ridicule or disparage the ceremonies. It is like
bullies who point fingers and make fun of the different kids in school.
Frankly, I couldn't care less what they do there because the true test of
any belief system is the quality of the people. I also have yet to have a
single person take me up on my offer to help them prove the church is false.
They choose to mock the church by showing their garments with bullet holes in
With so many "secret combinations" in the world today, and many of them
carrying out lethal activities around the world, it is reasonable that the
general public is suspicious of the LDS Temple "secrets".Likewise, it is unreasonable for many commenters here to disparage and treat
with hostility questions and calls for transparency made in good faith by
individuals who have connections to or interest in the LDS community.It is public knowledge that Mormons have been treated with suspicion since its
founding, and millions continue to be suspicious of what goes on in LDS Temples.
Historical facts, as well as relatively recent revelations of what has gone on
in Mormon offshoot group Temples further add to the suspicion.Which
is why I am surprised when comments here by defenders (why are they defensive?)
try to explain the secrecy with comparisons to what goes on in locker
rooms/bathrooms, what goes on in bedrooms. Those analogies only heighten
suspicions.And as Chris B has pointed out, justifying
"secrecy" by invoking "sacredness" fails because many public
things in Mormonism are "sacred" yet not cloaked in secrecy.Unfortunately, too many comments here only increase suspicion, suggesting it
At the time of the previous 2 movies that this one likely replaces, there were
also some major changes to the temple endowment in 1990 which the church
announced as well.Are we to assume that there are additional changes
to the temple endowment with this new film?
At least for the time being, people have a right to keep aspects of their lives
private. Why is it that so many people here are demanding access to what is
kept private? Should we also open up men's and women's locker rooms
to the public -- after all, if they don't have anything to hide, when then
are there closed doors? What are people ashamed of? People may also be curious
about my sex life, but I'm not puting that out there for public display or
comment either. For me and my wife, that is something that is also sacred --
and we don't discuss it in church or in a temple or in front of a National
Enquirer reporter.I certainly don't think that the private
temple ceremonies of the LDS people are harming anyone. If someone thinks
otherwise, they'll need to give specific examples.
For those curious about what happens in the Temple and why we don't make
the details publicit is important to understand that temple instruction
comes with covenants and can't beseparated from them. Participation
in these covenants and knowledge of the signs and tokens puts a person
under obligation to live by them. While we believe that every one willbe
judged according to the light they have received "he who sins against the
greater light shall receive the greater condemnation." (D&C 82:3) As
such giving someone unprepared detailed knowledge of the Temple feels like the
spiritual equivalent of handing a loaded handgun to a 4 year old.There is actually a lot more available from the Church on the temple than is
generally recognized. I recommend the section on Temples at LDS.org,
reading the Temple Preparation Manual. (Search preparing to enter the holy
temple @LDS.org).Also, look at the research done on temples at the Maxwell
Institute(FARMS), The Temple Sties Group, Academy for Temple Studies,and FAIR.
First of all, nothing is "hidden." It is available to everyone, but you
must QUALIFY to participate. Organizations around the world have standards set
up to qualify to participate in specific events/functions. The
Church will not be making any changes to how people are invited to attend.
Because temples are the Lord's house and HE decides who is invited and how
they qualify. If the Lord deems such changes, He will make them. And no amount
of pressure from "interested parties" is going to be successful.Again, as stated above. All are invited to come unto Him, but He has
made it plain that strait is the gate and narrow is the way.
My temple worship is personal. I don't even talk about it with my wife
unless we are in the temple's celestial room. It would seem inappropriate
In continuing with why not tell everything we know or do?As for the
same car, we wait until our children are old enough to handle a car before we
put them behind the wheel. Same goes for what happens in the temple. Everyone
who goes there has to be mature in the gospel to understand what happens there.
Would you give your checking account info to everyone who asks it of you? NO
You would see why, and how they use that info. What goes on in the temple is
even more important that that, so please understand we actually want you there,
just go through the same process we all have gone through to get there, and ALL
of your questions will be answered, and you will embark on the most amazing and
precious adventure of your life. You will grow in knowledge for all eternity.
Please come and take the time to REALLY investigate and research the knowledge
you seem to want so badly.But if you are NOT sincere, then why even
I have read the comments and wonder if some people are sincere in their
questions. If you are here are the answers. When you were a teenager and
learning to drive, did your instructor check that you followed safety protocol
every time you got into the car to drive? Parents are loving and want to make
sure you are safe, so they check and recheck that you stay safe. Our Heavenly
Father wants to make sure we are safe too, so he gave us info to help us know
how sacred the temple ordinance are. When we progressed, He has let us know
that He believes us capable of knowing how sacred things in the temple are, so
he doesn't have to check that we are following safety measures, and not
succumbing to pressure from anywhere.it until our children are old enough to
handle a car before we put them behind the wheel. Same goes for what happens in
the temple. Everyone who goes there has to be mature in the gospel to
understand what happens there. Would you give your checking account info to
I hope that new temple film come out in HD format this time. I have seen two
different version of old one.
@Red CorvetteI received my endowments long after the penalties were
removed from the temple ritual. I suspect like everything else in the temple,
they were symbolic in nature.
"I am not redefining anything. I am asking the LDS Church to talk to people
about their temple worship, the clothing, symbols, and so forth. I have tried to
do so in a spirit of fellowship and civility."@Brother Ben.I believe you are asking in sincerity and with pure intent to inquire
about something that is sacred to many members of the LDS Church. There are
reasons why these symbols are kept sacred because they can only be understood
within a certain context and through the Holy Spirit. That context is provided
in the temple. While it seems as though members are trying to keep
it secret is farther from the truth. If a car driving along the highway only
contained temple going members, it would still be inappropriate to discuss the
temple ritual despite the fact that they all know what goes on in the temple but
rather the lack of context.
Chris B:The Catholic Church kept people from having access to the
bible for centuries. Care to explain why?
@Rita 52,The basic requirements have been ably stated by others here. Complete
your "bachelor's degree" and you will be ready for the temple.The True Temple for Christians is Jesus. “destroy this temple,
and in three days I will raise it up” (John 2:19). After Christ’s
resurrection the meaning of these words became plain, when Jesus spoke of the
destruction of the temple, he was speaking of his own body (John 2:22).Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard
to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a
shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in
Christ.( Col 2:15 -17).RE: Jeff, “The endowment was and is a
ceremony that can be adapted to the needs of its audience. Brigham Young
attempted to introduce the concept of Adam-God into the endowment, as far as it
had been revealed to him and he was able to interpret.
Would a person attend high school before finishing grade school? Of course not.
Do we have baptised members go through the Temple right away? of course not.
Dedication, understanding and commitment are needed before giving a person
calculus before basic math.
There's nothing that goes on in a temple that anybody needs to worry about.
Our desire to keep it private and sacred instead of inviting disrespect by
making it public is only offensive to those who would love to mock it, and feel
thwarted. Most of it is in the scriptures which are publicly available, and it
is only the covenants and additional details that are not public.Would you share all the details of your family relationships? Private
conversations with your family members? Is every contract made public? Do you
not have concerns about government invasion of privacy? What if they lose
control over the data they are collecting, and all of your financial information
and emails were made public? It really is not so different.
Because it is sacred and only for those who choose to be worthy to and to live
their lives in according to God's will. It is not something you take
lightly...it is sacred and only for those who are found worthy.
Elliott, you are confusing co-incidence with causality. Just because one thing
looks like another superficially does not mean that one is a direct result of
the other. The temple ceremony was revealed by God, and, according to Him, was
around long before Freemasonry. There are bits of the temple ceremony in ancient
Egyptian temple rites, some African nativist rites and religious observances
throughout Asia. This alone would presuppose an ancient source that predates all
of them. Try reading Dr. Hugh Nibley's excellent treatises on the ancient
origins of temple worship.
I have been a temple worker for many years, and attended the temple long before
that. Here are a few things non- or former members CAN know:1. The temple
ceremonies used to take almost 3 hours; they have been shortened as
circumstances and needs have changed. The work is accelerating, and more needs
to be done in the same 24/7 as before. The doctrines and covenants have not
changed, only the presentation.2. New films are released from time to time
to reflect the growing membership and changing demographics of the Church, but,
again, the doctrines and covenants do not change.3. How many high schooler
graduates would be admitted to an advanced post-graduate course in any
university? Is it because they are being shut out? No, it's because the are
not prepared for the knowledge and teaching to be found there. The Lord has set
the requirements for entrance into His "university", and anyone willing
to meet them is welcomed and encouraged to come and learn. The basic
requirements have been ably stated by others here. Complete your
"bachelor's degree" and you will be ready for the temple.
@Brother Benjamin FranklinPerspective is an interesting thing. In
1981 I was shown a filmstrip about the temp,e to prepare me to go. After seeing
it I thought, that didn't tell me anything about the temple ceremony. I
went to the temple, received my Endowment and entered the MTC. One of our
teachers showed the same filmstrip saying he felt impressed to do so. After
having been to the temple my reaction was, wow, they told us everything about
the temple ceremony. The actual wording is sacred, the concepts, in my opinion,
are openly taught.Can't remember if it was The Hose of The Lord
or The Holy Temple.
It's embarrassing when you're a member of the LDS faith and a friend
outside the faith tells you something they discovered on the internet about the
history of your most sacred rituals (such as the penalties, among a few other
things I won't mention) and you laugh and tell them they're most
certainly wrong only to discover later that they knew more about your religion
than you did. I think there's a case for at least making the history of
temple worship and how it's done more available to LDS members from
Wow, Brother BF! No apologies needed. Thanks for your honesty, sensitivity, and
I actually went and looked at the information out there. I proceeded to watch
this film and had a very bad feeling from the moment it started, so I turned it
off. I'm not going to say that I had some kind of amazing
spiritual experience, but I do know right and wrong. I have tried to be
respectful and sensitive of things as best I know. And this did not feel
appropriate for some reason. I then visited one of the temples
locally. It will suffice to say that the workers and members were all very
friendly and happy to answer questions regarding the temple. One of them even
walked around the outside and in the waiting area showing me different things
people can do while they wait for others who are inside. I still
think the LDS Church can and should be more forthcoming regarding the temple,
but I apologize to all LDS members here for any insensitivity communicated
through my comments. I ask commenters like Christopher B to please
be careful regarding what you write. The LDS temple visit I made exceeded my
expectations. Why not visit the temple and see it for yourself?
I enjoyed the new film. It gives great insight into the event outlined in the
sacred ordinance. The film talent of those who put it together is phenomenal. I
look forward to going again.Anyone has access to this film. Talk to
your local bishop for details on how you can access this information.
@Brother Benjamin Franklin 4of 4In Matthew 6, Christ speaks about
those who practice fasting and ‘disfigure their faces, hat they may appear
unto man to fast.’ Christ says that their reward is the acknowledgement
of others. He then stresses that when we are building are relationships with
our Father(Heavenly) through ordinances and or covenants that this should be
done in a solemn manner away from the view of others, and says that when the
Father ‘seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.’ I know of some
people who have shared these sacred ordinances with those not of the LDS faith,
or members of the LDS faith who are not Temple worthy. I have seen that they
have received acknowledgement of others, but they have lost the promised
blessings for keeping them sacred, just like those who fast for men to see,
instead of for God to see.
@Brother Benjamin Franklin 3 of 4In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul tells us
that when we are young in gospel knowledge, it is like looking ‘through a
glass, darkly;’ Then he says that he now sees ‘face to face:’
but only knows ‘in part;’ and that eventually he will know all about
God even as he is known by God. Where are you at in your learning of
God’s teachings? As I have studied and participated in the
LDS faith, it has brought me to the Temple. The Temple didn’t change what
I had already learned from the scriptures, it clarifies it. It simply
reiterates in a short, condensed, organized manner what is already talked about
in the scriptures, and includes covenants/promises concerning these gospel
@Brother Benjamin Franklin 2 of 4As most of my Temple worship has
been at the Salt Lake City Temple, I have listened to many mistakes in wordings,
as well as the corrections made immediately thereafter. I have had the time to
ponder why things are worded in a specific way, and have also found that many of
the exact wordings are found word for word in the scriptures, however they are
not all in one place or order.God is teaching everyone on earth
continually and allows us to accept the teaching or reject it. When we accept
God’s teachings, God gives us more teachings or clarifications of
teachings and allows us to do the same with these. In this way, we are only
held responsible for our decisions concerning the teachings/clarifications that
God has given to us. This is the “Milk” before the
“Meat” that is referred to in Hebrews 5.
@Brother Benjamin Franklin 1 of 4Most of the knowledge you are
searching for concerning the Temples is found in the Scriptures. This includes
the Holy Bible (Old and New Testaments), The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and
Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. I have been attending the LDS church
for almost 40 years now, with the past 17 years being worthy to participate in
Temple worship. I have not seen the newly updated film, mainly because the
Temple I attend most frequently is the Salt Lake Temple, which has not started
using any of the films. If you have attended an LDS Sunday worship
(sacrament meeting), or a Baptism, you might notice that occasionally, the
prayers are redone, if a mistake in the wording is made. The same thing occurs
in the Temples when a mistake is made in the wording. The films help to prevent
wording mistakes and allow for less Temple workers for Temple worship. The
approximate time for worship with a film is about 1 ½ hours, and without a
film is about 2 hours.
I certainly do not think the Church should openly discuss what goes on in the
Temple because some people are demanding openness. My reason for suggesting it
be discussed openly is for an entirely different reason. The ceremonies that
occur in the Temple have been filmed and posted on the YouTube. Rather than
letting rogue members control the disclosure, maybe the Church should?
There is a difference between reverence and keeping secrets to avoid being
Thank goodness the church has updated the film. Because of recent changes the
movie was pieced together in a number of places. And of course outdated it felt
like I was watching .... well I was watching a 20 year old rerun. The church
does such a great job on the church website and even now having the council the
12 and the Prophet on Facebook and Google+ so many modern technologically
advancements but we still had a 20 year old movie when we went to the temple so
this is a great move I'll make sure to go see it this week.
To Brother BF and everyone else who has something to say about t he LDS Church
and their beliefs.Why do you care what they do or don't do in
the Temple? It is just the same as why do you care what your neighbor is doing?
You need to get a life!
I wonder where some of you folks get your info. I have been attending the
temple for 42 years. As of yet, I have not heard one single utterance from any
Church leader, from Salt Lake or anywhere else, that had any appearance of a
threat. Using a "threat" in conjunction with what we consider to be
most sacred would be to demean the temple to say the least.
@Brother Benjamin 2/2:Imagine the conversation between the three and
one of the other nine. "James, you all looked so moved when you came down
the mountainside. You were happy, but quiet and reflective. What happened up
there?""I'm sorry Thomas, the Lord has told me not to
tell you yet.""But please James, it must have been
incredible judging by how you looked when you came down. Tell me just a bit;
just explain what happened—you don't even have to go into too much
detail.""I'm sorry Thomas, I cannot." It took faith to trust that Christ was right.Brother Benjamin, one
day perhaps you will learn in great detail all that happens in and is associated
with temple worship. May I suggest that, like the apostles of old, the best way
to learn about sacred things that He, the Lord, has explicitly told us not to
share, is to faithfully follow Him. He will prepare you. Perhaps that is why
we do not share much about temple worship: it is not ours to share, for it
belongs to Christ. Continue coming to Him and He will share it with you when
and how He wants.
@Brother Benjamin, long post = more than one comment:I relate to
you. I enjoy learning as much as possible about things that are important to
good people and, from what you have written, it sounds like you want to know
more about temple rituals in order to glean whatever goodness you can from them.
From your posts, I feel very comfortable giving you the benefit of the doubt
and I think that desire is noble.As a Christian, you undoubtedly
know about the Mount of Transfiguration. It was a spectacular and (dare I use
the word in this tread?) sacred event, a grand exercise of heavenly, Priesthood
authority. Upon the Mount the heavens and the earth connected, the Divine and
the mortal met. In discussion with the Lord about the event on the way back to
the other apostles, something intriguing happens: Christ bars what they may say
about it. "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them,
saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the
dead." (Matt. 17:9) NO man? Not even the other apostles? No.
I can understand the criticism that basically goes "If the church wants to
grow in the 21st century, they should be more transparent". Indeed, the
church has, over the last two decades, made more historical artifacts available
than ever before. However, when it comes to being transparent about
temple activities, there should be parity in this demand. If individuals outside
the church demand the church be more open about what goes on in the temple, they
should first appreciate what church members demand, which is respect for sacred
matters. I sincerely doubt that such respect would be garnered from making a
temple video public. Transparency is mutually beneficial up to a
very clear point.
@From Teds Head"Certainly it's only a matter of time before
the geniuses behind the Book of Mormon play or others of a similar mindset,
bring the LDS temple ceremony out into the open to mock and make a buck."They already did it in Big Love. Now Big Love is just a footnote in
entertainment history and the Church is still intact despite Big Loves
insensitivities. I did notice after that episode aired, nobody really cared. If
the writers thought they were going to shock the world they were probably
terribly disappointed. And the BOM Broadway play after a few years will also
become a footnote but the Book of Mormon will still survive.
Sammy, the pope should not hide anything. You mistakenly assume because I am
catholic I support everything the Catholic Church does. I don't. Swing and a miss for ya there Sammy. No, I don't blindly
follow I think truth, if it is truth, should be open and shared
RE: Jeff,“Excuse us, please, if you ask for "some info from a
Mormon," and we decline to give the "info" you want, because
it's clear from what you say that you would have no intention of respecting
the info we gave you.” True, Joseph Smith, ”These
sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when
the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be
fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and
blessings. This ever did and ever will exist when the powers of the Melchizedek
Priesthood are sufficiently manifest; else how can the restitution of all things
spoken of by the Holy Prophets be brought to pass. It is not to be understood
that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety
of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; but those things
which existed prior o Moses' day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued
(HofC v. 4 p. 211-21)I said nothing in Secret.(John 18:20 NIV)
In today's world even the name of God is used casually and as a very common
curse. All things from and about God are sacred. Part of becoming like him is to
keep such things sacred in our minds and souls. Also, as Jesus taught right
after appearing to the Nephites in 3 Nephi 11, He is come, then and now, to
eliminate contention on points of His teachings. If we cannot even avoid taking
His name in vain, as per the 10 commandments, why should He open other sacred
things for debate and debasement? All things pertaining to salvation are taught.
Everything about entering into the gate is open. Many other things along the
path are not. Jesus used parables to avoid damaging and damning the souls of
those not ready for advanced concepts. His teachings in the Temples are just
another example of this concept. One thing at a time for everything. Line upon
line, as Isaiah wrote.
@A Scientist"For most of Church history, temple patrons were
essentially threatened with "penalties" if they revealed temple
rites."Actually that is not the case. It was more like if a
soldier was captured by the enemy he would suffer death rather than reveal
information. There never was a threat.
Lots of cultures have sacred knowledge that is not open to outsiders or those
within the culture who have not been properly initiated. About 20 years ago an
anthropologist came to the UofU and spike on sacred Navajo practices amd
beliefs. Native Americans who attended the lecture wrote that they felt
physicslly ill to hear him talk about things that were absolutely sacred to
them. My Navajo friend who was LDS told me,"How would you feel if someone
talked about the temple ceremony?"I have run across sacred chants in
old archives which, in earlier times, were sacred in certain cultures and out of
respect, I don't circulate or post them. It is tapu - sacred.The
view in some cultures is if someone gets sacred knowledge without being properly
prepared 1) it won't help them because they won't understand and 2) it
may even harm them. I recognize the same thing in Mormon culture, There are
tests of worthiness to get a temple recommend. This i s how someone prepares
themselves so they will be ready to learn when they enter the temple.
Humors to read/hear the "unfairness" or demand of special privileges,
new rules/guidelines because selfishly they want something others have to pay or
obey to have. Why someone demands entrance to a LDS temple based on
"their" rules is absurd. Logic dictates... you will not respect it as
the MILLIONS who do abide THE agreed to guidelines. It's a very selfish,
self-serving, egocentric, etc... request.The principle of entrance
to this building is a universal principle (definition for dummies): "No
shirt, no service." ie: Visiting Rome, I was wearing shorts the day we
went to the Vatican, I was not allowed in St. Peter's. "No shorts"
is one of the guidelines... is that UN-Christian? Is that bizarre? Is that
unlawful? Non-religious? Why can't I go into the Enclave when the
Cardinals debate and vote? School, restaurants, ie: "no shirt, no
entrance..." So what did I do, complain to everyone? No one cared who
were walking in freely because they all were observing the rules. I went back
to the hotel and changed. I was graciously and happily allowed to enter.
Shocking, I adhered to their rules.
One basic premise: Did God reveal to man the rites found in LDS Temples,
including the various modifications made over the past 180 or so years? If your
answer is yes, then it's quite easy to go with the idea that with said
knowledge obtained in LDS temples comes associated responsibilities and
accountability, with the understanding that a loving God would not burden
someone with an accountability that they were not ready for. If your answer is
no, Joseph Smith made up the whole thing with a generous borrow from the Masons,
and subsequent LDS Church leaders have changed it as part of some grand fraud
being perpetrated on LDS Church members, then you likely find the whole
sacredness issue odd to say the least. Certainly it's only a matter of time
before the geniuses behind the Book of Mormon play or others of a similar
mindset, bring the LDS temple ceremony out into the open to mock and make a
buck. It won't change that while standing on what they believe is hallowed
ground, LDS Church members make what they believe are sacred covenants with
their God in perhaps the most important acts of their lives.
Chris BKnowing that you're Catholic... Why
doesn't the pope open up every thing in the Vatican? Why the secrecy
when a pope is selected?Why Chris... Why?
@ Brother Ben:Can I have your social security number? I promise I
won't do anything bad with it.
@Christopher B"Scientist,What penalties?"How to put this in a way that answers the question that would be allowed and
fair and respectful... you know how children have that phrase when making
promises that goes "cross my heart, hope to die"? It was kinda like
that. Nobody ever actually was killed or injured in any way over breaking that
promise not to disclose the particular information. Church standing and what
they thought of with regards to eternal standing well... that's a different
Christopher B."Overnight" is likely not a good characterization.
Children don't change overnight, but at some point a parent has to make
adjustments. I don't know the mind of God but, yes, the cultural climate
changed, people changed with it and I believe that's why adjustments were
made. This is the beauty of having a living prophet who can guide according to
Chris B & Brother Ben,Would you want people to know every detail that
goes on in your bedroom? I would hope not. There are just some things that are
too personal to share with just anybody. I am sorry you feel that the LDS church
is hiding things from you. As was mentioned before, not even every member can
attend the temple.It is reserved for those who are ready. Would you teach a two
year old advanced Algebra? I don't think so. They are not ready for that.
The temple is the same concept.
From the October 2010 Ensign special issue on temples, probably available at LDS
distribution centers: "The designation of certain buildings for special
ordinances, as distinguished from regular places of worship, is not new. This
was the practice in ancient Israel, where the people worshipped regularly in
synagogues. Their most sacred place was, first, the tabernacle in the wilderness
with its Holy of Holies, and then a succession of temples, where special
ordinances were performed and where only those who met the required
qualifications could participate in these ordinances."So it is
today. When [the temple] is dedicated it becomes the house of the Lord, vested
with a character so sacred that only members of the Church in good standing are
permitted to enter. It is not a matter of secrecy. It is a matter of
sanctity" (Gordon B. Hinckley).
I thought the film was GREAT
Brother Ben, I'm sorry you didn't find the answers you were looking
for at mormon.org. There is even more information at lds.org under Resources,
and then Temples. Perhaps then you will understand why the Church doesn't
provide the "in-depth information" you're asking for.Christopher B., many places can be considered sacred. To the LDS, our chapels
and even our homes are sacred. We recognize the sanctity of places of worship of
other faiths. But the temple has a unique purpose and function from all other
religious buildings. It is the most sacred place, for us, on earth, and we
believe God has set the requirements for who may enter it. I think you
understand the difference between trying to "hide such things" and
keeping them sacred.
Jeff,What have I said that shows I won't respect
information?I am simply asking for information. The fact
I disagree with the reasons I have heard for hiding information doesn't
mean I am disrespectful. I have not made fun or laughed at your
temples. I just point out what I notice. Jeanie,I appreciate the response. It may even be a logical response, based on
this next clarification.So just to be clear, overnight 20 years ago
god decided that his children were now different than they had been in previous
Christopher B.The changes were in wording, not principles. So, does God change? As much as a parent whose children grow from toddlers to
teenagers. They are the same parents who want to teach their children the same
principles but they use age appropriate language. God is not a statue carved in
stone and ridged. He is a parent who can change methods to teach the same
principles according to the changing needs of His children. That's the best I can do for you. :)BTW most people
understand there are varying levels of sacredness. It is not all or nothing.
@ Christopher B/Chris B from Salt Lake and Ogden:You ask, "So
the question remains, why hide it?"Again, consider your approach
to such subjects, and you will see why some things in Mormonism are supposed to
be so sacred that we might not want to discuss them outside certain
parameters.There are things in everyone's life that should be
so. "Intimacy" and "sacredness" in our private/family lives
could even be considered synonymous. If you don't see that, it might be
why you don't see the sacredness of the temple.In your own
posts, however, you betray language that suggests that you would not treat what
we consider sacred to be sacred.Further, why would you be so
concerned about what goes on in the temple if, as you say, "it was partly
[your] research and learning about the temples via the Internet that [you]
politely told the missionaries 'please do not ever return'"? Excuse us, please, if you ask for "some info from a Mormon," and
we decline to give the "info" you want, because it's clear from
what you say that you would have no intention of respecting the info we gave
Lvis,The fact that such information is available doesn't change
the fact the Mormon church tries to hide such things. Frankly, the
missionaries talked to me a few times as my ex wife was a mormon, but it was
partly my research and learning about the temples via the Internet that I
politely told the missionaries "please do not ever return"So
the question remains, why hide it?And as I have stated,
"sacred" doesn't work unless you are saying nothing in the Mormon
church outside of the temple is sacred.
The fact of the matter is that anyone who wants to know what goes on in a Mormon
temple, simply out of curiosity, can get it all online. You don't think
that anyone has surreptitiously recorded it all on their iphone and posted it to
Youtube? You don't think anyone has written it down word-for-word and
posted on the internet? A very brief part of a quote by Hugh Nibley--"Anyone
who would reveal these things has not understood them...." Nor do I think
you'll understand it. Without a proper foundation, it will be
meaningless to you. But have a go. It's all there for you.
Brother Benjamin Franklin wants to "put pressure on Church officials and
members to please be more forthcoming" about the temple. He is doing this,
he says "in a spirit of fellowship and civility."Yet he uses
pejorative language and offensive words. There should be little
wonder why Latter-day Saints do not want to parade their most sacred experiences
before a public who describe us as "selective and evasive," and who
accuse us of "covering up, sidestepping, and avoiding giving me the truth I
ask for."It's hard to take seriously any "concerns
about the lack of answers to legitimate concerns" when the language says
only, "I demean your beliefs, your practices, and your people, and I have an
overwhelming curiosity about what goes on 'behind closed doors and
hidden' from those who wish to be critical."
Brother Ben - When things are shared with anyone there are many that
would trash it and treat it with disrespect - as already happens with websites
showing pictures of "Mormon under clothes" along with mocking comments.
Temple attendance isn't like a beautiful picture set in public
for all to see and take or leave as they will. It's a place set apart from
the trenches of everyday life where the faithful make promises to live a more
Christ-like life and feel closer to God. Maybe you are sincere in
knowing what makes the temple so special for LDS members. Not everyone is. How
does an organization who believes in sacred things keep them sacred? They seek
out the sincere and not just the curious - even among its own members. Everyone
doesn't want what the temple has to offer. They don't want the
commitments a temple worthy member has. The temple is reserved for those who
are willing to make the commitments and sacrifices necessary to attend.
Jeanie,I would appreciate some info from a Mormon, so thank you in
advance if you are willing to actually answer questions, and not just bounce
around the subject. You seem to admit something changed 20 years ago
in the temples is that right?Just curious, did god change his mind
on something 20 years ago?And what was that?I thought
Lds doctrine was that god didn't change?Does that mean that
whatever happened previous to 20 years ago was incorrect?Thanks if
you are willing to ANSWER
Scientist,What penalties?Were Mormons previously kicked
out of the church for acknowledging what happens in temples years ago?
Why not make the film available to the public?I just don't
think the "sacred" argument holds any water. Unless you are
suggesting nothing that happens outside the Mormon temples is sacred Is nothing that happens in your regular churches "sacred"?And yet the public is open to see and hear what goes on there correct?I think the reason the temple is kept secret is the truth of what
happens would scare the public.
@CoachBiffI hope you don't have a chip on your shoulder. I
respect the LDS faith's right to worship. I wrote out their full church
name (see above comment). I try hard not to say Mormons, though I mess up. No
issues there.@DaughterofG-dThanks for being nicer than
CoachBiff. I appreciate your honest response. The concern I have is that your
response doesn't answer my questions. But you expressed very clearly the
tenets of your belief and I respect your boldness. Thank you.@JeanieI said it before, then why not share it? Why not offer the
same joy this gives you to others instead of keeping it for yourself? I
don't understand why the LDS members are so thick in this regard. @Anonyme I apologize for any implication I may have made.
Perhaps the LDS Church can devise special accommodations on a case-by-case
basis. This exclusionary attitude troubles me. And are temples not a place to
learn, as your scriptures teach? I researched Mormon.org. It is a good website
for LDS theology basics. But it lacks in-depth information, which makes my
point. Please respond accordingly. I appreciate your sincerity.
Brother Ben says, "Why not encourage those not of your faith to attend these
. . . endowment proceedings, and other similar events to gain better
understanding?" Maybe because the purpose of these proceedings is not to
promote understanding of the Church; it's to provide members the
opportunity to make covenants with God. They're not spectator events. One
doesn't have to know every detail of a ceremony to understand its purpose.
"I am asking the LDS Church to talk to people about their temple
worship, the clothing, symbols, and so forth." They do. See mormon.org.
Bro. Ben - Why such a need to know? Are there not things in your life that are
sacred to you that out of respect you would not want plastered around the
internet and discussed casually or mockingly among strangers? Why so
threatened? "I am concerned as to why something they say is so
important to them is kept behind closed doors and hidden from public
knowledge."....precisely because it is so important and sacred
to us.A Scientist "For most of Church history,
temple patrons were essentially threatened with "penalties" if they
revealed temple rites."This has not been an issue for over 20
years. "Circumspect" is an appropriate word.
Brother Benjamin Franklin, You are most welcome to the knowledge of
the temple, the same as it is offered to all the world. There is a proscribed
manner in which you must be taught the sacred things of the temple. We welcome
you to fellowship with the missionaries and embark upon the path of Christ.
First, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by
immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of
the Holy Ghost. Then after a year, after the fruit of your repentance has
started to become evident, you are invited to start the process to go to the
Holy Temple of The Lord and learn. This process is the same for every member of
the church and is offered to all of the world.Your sister in Christ
So you worship according to your conscience but aren't willing to extend
that privilege to the object of your not so veiled derision, the LDS church?
@Commen-TatorI believe in God and Jesus Christ. I believe in right
and wrong. I follow the Constitution and worship according to my conscience.
I am not redefining anything. I am asking the LDS Church to talk to
people about their temple worship, the clothing, symbols, and so forth. I have
tried to do so in a spirit of fellowship and civility. .I want the
truth to be told. And if you stand up for those who promote covering up,
sidestepping, and avoiding giving me the truth I ask for, then you are no
different than they.And in the end, I am not going to be on a side
that covers things up.
@Brother Ben,It would seem your concerns are parallel with those of
a leading religious ruler during Christ's time, who admonished his fellow,
"non-Christ following" leaders to steer clear of the Christians.
Paraphrasing, if what Jesus did was "of God", and they continued to
fight against it, they were decidedly on the wrong side of the equation. On the
other hand, if it was not, it would die on its own.He knew that if
Christianity was God-sent, no amount of public pressure would redefine the role
or nature of the religion.While those hapless leaders went on to
kill Christ, they definitely did not redefine the gospel, but rather did find
themselves decidedly on the "wrong side" from Christ's and his
follower's perspective ... and if that gospel was/is true, on the wrong
side in the eternities.If what the Mormons have is "true",
no amount of public protest will matter or alter its course -- God won't
care what those who choose not to follow him think about His path! If false, it
too will fall on its own. Thus it comes down to only one question ... "Is
this religion of God?"
"Out of reverence for what Latter-day Saints consider the sacred nature of
temple worship, Mormons are admonished to be circumspect about discussing the
details of temple instruction."Circumspect?For most
of Church history, temple patrons were essentially threatened with
"penalties" if they revealed temple rites.
I sure do appreciate this coming out. It is good to see The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints putting information out about what goes on inside
the temple after it has been dedicated. I am increasingly concerned
over the selective and evasive approach the Church takes to discuss various
aspects of its faith. I am concerned as to why something they say is so
important to them is kept behind closed doors and hidden from public knowledge.
If this is so helpful to making Church members better people, why
not share it with the community? The public are welcome to hear from
missionaries, attend Church activities, classes, and services, listen to General
Conference, and go to temple open houses. Why not encourage those not of your
faith to attend these wedding ceremonies, endowment proceedings, and other
similar events to gain better understanding? I believe the time has
come to put pressure on Church officials and members to please be more
forthcoming on temple matters. With the increasing focus recently on the losses
of some members of the LDS faith due to inadequate doctrinal understanding, I
have serious concerns about the lack of answers to legitimate concerns.
The first temple film was introduced in 1955 with the dedication of the Swiss
Temple (now called Bern Switerzland Temple.) Films have subsequently been used
in every temple dedicated since then.