@ Scoundrel: You just listed a bunch of people who are dependent on the
government as a reason not to shut it down. We've created a situation, with
Marxist policies, wherein people are dependent up the government for their
livelihoods and their special care. Wake up! It's a monster and if we
continue to feed it, it will require us to forfeit all of our freedoms and
independence for the security you want them to provide us. "From each
according to his ability, to each according to his need." Karl MarxIt that's really what you want, carry on. We're on our way.
A PG #1 FAN, you are misinformed. Talk to some doctors. They are not in favor of
it and many will retire early because of it...or transform their practices to a
concierge system. And the income average you suggested is way high and is going
down as we speak. Gather some facts before you try to sell Obama talking points.
First some facts: Health costs are being driven up by several factors 1)
Technology - health care is getting more and more technologically intensive.
Technology is not cheap - particularly on the cutting edge. 2) More specialized
doctors - the intricacies of medicine are increasing rapidly. It requires years
of study and residency to understand any given field. 3) Defensive medicine -
more tests and procedures are being done to protect the physician from
litigation. Even with tort reform, technology and specialization are going to
drive costs rapidly upward. This is going to lead to some very difficult choices
in the future. The productivity of many people now does not create enough to
purchase first rate/cutting edge healthcare. Even spreading the risk (health
insurance) will not solve the problem. Unless we can show dramatic increases in
productivity in our country, the productive will be increasingly called on to
subsidize (pay for) the healthcare of the unproductive. At a certain point, they
will refuse to do so. This phenomenon will soon reach crisis proportions with
medicare. Ultimately, unless medicine is forced to mediocrity for all, some
people will live because they can pay and some will die because they can't.
Shutting down the government strikes me as a great idea. It's the sequester
on steroids. The truth is that the greatest threat to our country is not
Obamacare. Obamacare is only stupid. Obamacare will, as such programs have in
the rest of the world, lead to two tiered medical care - Excellent private care
and rationed substandard public care. The deficit, on the other hand, could drop
this country and the rest of the world into a depression. All that is required
is a loss of confidence in the United States ability to repay and the government
could only finance itself by printing more money. That would lead to runaway
inflation and an inevitable huge contraction in the economy. So, definitely shut
down the government. The secondary effects of deficit reduction will exceed in
value the primary effect of defunding Obamacare.
Mike Lee is doing more than those liberals Orrin Hatch or Bob Bennett ever did.
Sometimes the best thing to do is just say no.
I question the value in having as a major qualification for political office a
single-minded focus to delegitimize the President. What have political
luminaries here in the land of the far-right such as Mike Lee, Jason Chaffetz,
Dan Liljenquist and Mia Love actually accomplished other than to preach
obstructionism to nearly every presidential effort to confront the pressing
issues of our times.
How about we all have a pizza together and agree not to go to the Doctor's
for 10 years? Let's strike, that'll learn 'em!
To "Te Amo" I am with you, except for modeling our system after Cuba and
Mexico. We need to reign in the lawyers, and let the free market work. Cuba
has 2 systems, one for the rich and politically connected, and one for everybody
else. The system for the rich and politically connected is great while the
other is only a couple of steps above frontier medicine. Mexico's system
isn't all that great either. The fascism that is taking over
the healthcare industry will only lead to disaster.
Instead of calling names, how about looking at the problem and try to solve
that. The problem is we the common people cannot afford health care. Obamacare
does nothing to solve that problem. I recommend modeling our health care after
Cuba and Mexico where all the people have affordable health care and it's
some of the best in the world. After the insurance companies, Lawyers and other
parasites get done no average person in this country can afford insurance and
Obamacare only adds to the problem by rationing medical care, manipulating costs
and running doctors into retirement to avoid price controls. Already medical
school applications are decreasing. What happens with Obamacare when there are
no doctors and nurses to control? Lee is right on.
@ PG #1 FAN"Scant incomes? Doctors take home in excess of an
average of $750,000 per year. If they are forced to take home a little less for
the common good then so be it."Apparently you don't
understand that there is a difference in pay from a neurologist to a family
practice doctor. Very few family practice doctors get anywhere close to the
amount you are talking about. These are the doctors that are leaving the
profession. Where I live in Wyoming, most doctors here refuse to accept
medicare due to the low amounts that are paid and the extremely high malpractice
insurance costs. The high cost of healthcare is almost entirely due to the lack
of a maximum cap on liability specifically associated with pain and suffering,
and also due to the lack of patients having the ability to make decisions for
Sounds like most of Utah has gone Lib from most of these posts. Can the country
be saved from collapse under the burden of it's debt and demands of
it's citizenry for handouts? No it can not! the real mess is coming. the
ten dollar hamburger is just around the corner. How are you preparing for that
bungalow/UtahBlueDevil....youre dreaming if you believe Obamacare covers you
better and for less than private insurance today.....it doesn't and I sell
the stuff, so I would know! You keep asking for the republican plan......you
have it already, private insurance! Its more affordable and covers more for
less, and no death panels!
To "UtahBlueDevil" wow, you complained about the language I used, while
avoiding the question. Here it goes again. Maybe you or one of your ilk can
respond this time.1. Is a nation more or less free when the
government dictates to its citizens what they must purchase, and how they must
live?2. Why continue to support a government program that is making
insurance more expensive and cover less?To "bungalow" in the
case of healthcare the best solution is to cut the government mandates and cut
the massive regulations that they have to obey. The second best thing to do is
to add no new mandates or regulation. The Republicans opted for the second best
option, which is still better than what the ACA has and will do to insurance
Senator Joseph Paine, i.e. Harry Reid, is up against Jefferson Smith, i.e. Mike
Lee. Go Mike Lee!
Redshirt..... me and my "ilk" or Elk..... we want a plan. Not just
blah blah rhetoric. The other "ilk" seem to like to tell the world
what is wrong with things.... and yet in all their pontifications fail to ever
provide a reasonable alternative. So, me and my ilk frieda.... we prefer a
plan..... to a void. Its kind of like asking your spouse what they
want for dinner.... and all they will say is I don't like chicken.
Informative.... but not really useful.Provide some options.... a
competing plan.... and us Ilks will give it due consideration. Until then....
there isn't anything to discuss..... at least for us like minded ilks.
To "atl134" I don't know who feeds you your information, but they
are wrong. The US recently experienced an average of 10% on an increase to
their health insurance premiums. We still don't have the full impact of
Obamacare yet, so we should expect even more increases in the cost of insurance
while getting fewer benefits from our insurance policies.To
"UtahBlueDevil" is a nation more or less free when the government
dictates to its citizens what they must purchase, and how they must live?Currently more people favor repealing the ACA than want to keep it. If
you look at what people think of it, they are saying more and more that the ACA
is a disaster and is going to maket hings worse.The question that I
have for you and your ilk is this: Why continue to support a government program
that is making insurance more expensive and cover less?
"Mike Lee is taking a principled stand for a free republic - or what is left
of it...against all the far left nation killers in this government and it's
state run media."And there begins the drivel of far right
rhetoric. Anyone who disagrees with them are "nation killers" and the
media is "state run". And we are supposed to take this
stuff seriously.Like mentioned several times before..... if is ok
for Mike to be against it. It isn't ok to be against it without a
replacement solution. That is like heading on a cross country trip without a
map. It is kind of like having a faith, without scripture. It
takes absolutely no brian power to be against things, to constantly point out
problems, without presenting a single solution. It is laziness at its fullest.
Patriot,Mike Lee "Stands for Something", he stands for
political obstructionism. Great I have no problem with his efforts to defeat
the so called Obamacare. But how about proposing a better solution to a huge
national problem? That would be "standing for something".
@PG #1 FAN"Doctors take home in excess of an average of $750,000 per
year. If they are forced to take home a little less for the common good then so
be it. The best doctors love what they do and would never quit medicine becuase
they thought they might lose 10% of their income. Most doctors are in favor of
the Affordable Care Act and the best were enlisted to help write the
legislation."I am married to one of those BEST doctors who NEVER
averaged $750,000 or close to it. Since you don't do billing for medical
offices (I managed his office), you don't have a clue how much is written
off because of government regulations, let alone the thousands and thousands
written off in the name of charity. You don't have a clue how we spent
$100,000 in computers and software to be HIPAA compliant only to spend that much
again when the regs changed. Many seasoned "best doctors" ARE quitting
"early" because they are SICK of the government intrusion in their
practice of medicine. Most doctors ARE NOT in favor of Obamacare. The
"best" WERE NOT enlisted to write it.
This isn't just about defunding Obamacare. It's about the government
overreaching their powers(in this case the Executive Branch). Obama amended his
own law without approval from the House or the Senate. He changed the law to
delay the mandate for large business to provide healthcare, but it still
requires the individual mandate which is totally against his own theory. Those
who can't afford healthcare won't get it from work, but will still be
required to buy health insurance. That doesn't make any sense. It's
in the constitution that you can't amend a law in such a way and Obama
thinks that the Constitution only applies in some cases, but it actually applies
in all cases.
“Lee acknowledged he may not end up with enough support to stop funding
for the president's health care law, but said he has to try anyway.
‘Sometimes in Washington, you have to stake out a position even when
you're in the minority, even when you're a member of a minority within
a minority,’ Lee (said).”OR, IN OTHER WORDS, he might as
well say:"I can't win on this, but I have to keep wasting
time and money anyway. Sometimes in Washington, you have to stake out a
position, even when your constituents and the nation as a whole elects you to
represent them differently. That's even when you're admittedly a
minority within a minority. I've got to fight for my way or no way!"
So far Senator Lee hasn't caved in to the socialist dreamers and corrupt
politicians. It's amazing to me, as the rich get richer and poor get
poorer, that there are so many deluded people out there that actually think that
these politicians actually are doing something good for them, Senator Lee
excepted. Why is it that so many on the left confuse Christian living with
government action? How do they arrive at that conclusion? Whether I'm a
passivist, anarchist, Democrat, or Republican politically has nothing to do with
whether I am a Christian. However, I think it is quite obvious that those who
are liberal, athiest, or non-Christian treat government as a religion, their God
to control and manipulate the unsuspecting and deluded masses. If any of them
can show me how a bureaucrat can help a neighbor better than a neighbor can help
a neighbor, I'll throw in with them in a second.
Mike, and those like him, believe it is ok to build bigger and better bombs,
fighter jets and the war machine but somehow it's wrong to fund healthcare.
Nothing they can tell me will make me believe they are right.
Don't blame me... Mike didn't get my vote.AND he never
will in the future....
Senator Lee is an individual who needs to be voted out of office when his term
comes up. That's all.
Utah citizens -- look at that man's face! Is this who represents you in the
21st Century, or are you longing for the 19th? Do you teach your children
honesty, but support a Senator who lies so well he believes it?
@MapleDon"Notice the increase in health premiums since the
"Affordable" Obamacare was enacted?"Health premiums the
past three years have increased at the slowest rate in half a century. (This is
mostly due to the recession rather than anything related to Obamacare, after all
most of Obamacare hasn't even gone into effect yet).
Looks like many feel the need to comment here after they get through commenting
on the Salt Lake Tribune site. We have enough head-in-the-sand leftists in this
country, and now we need some people who actually want to SAVE the country.
Thank goodness we've elected one senator with some integrity and some
functional intelligence. Anyone who thinks this "health care" law will
work has to be extremely naive and totally detached from anything even close to
A Senator should not threaten to shutdown government for Fox media coverage. He
@MarxistYour name says it all. No wonder you're afraid of
limited government. Further, you must also be Eric Samuelson.
@ enough is enough. Scant incomes? Doctors take home in excess of an average
of $750,000 per year. If they are forced to take home a little less for the
common good then so be it. The best doctors love what they do and would never
quit medicine becuase they thought they might lose 10% of their income. Most
doctors are in favor of the Affordable Care Act and the best were enlisted to
help write the legislation. Mike Lee is a Tera Party shill that hearkens back to
the days of Chris Cannon. Both are true embarrassments to our great State. 2016
we need a leader, not a Fox News contributor.
Re: MapleDon "But as long as you get your handout, I'm sure
you're happy." I am a senior citizen who has played by all of the
rules and never asked for a handout from anyone. I assume you mean me when I
ask that I receive my medicare benefits as promised. You're basically
calling me a parasite. I look forward to meeting you in person.
And another thing. Mike Lee does not care that his actions may deny some people
critical care, resulting in suffering and death. Lee is supposed to be some
kind of Christian. Not from my perspective!
Good Job Senator Lee, keep up the good work! RINO's like McCain, Graham,
Murkowski, Hatch, should just admit they are communists like Obama, Reid,
Schumer, Clinton........Obamacare is like trusting the people at the DMV with
your healthcare and paying four times as much for it! All services are improved
when they are managed and competitive at the private level!
Eric S...What is truly terrifying is that Obamacare will actually go into
effect. Very few in our citizenry have read it and even fewer know how it will
affect our country. The non-readers include our elected officials and some of
the agency people who make up the rules and administer it. In fact, it's
so complicated and incomprehensible that they simply can't get all the
regulations figured out.There isn't enough space here to
outline how Medicare has undermined our country's medical system.
Obamacare will be the death knell.If you think it's hard
getting into see a doctor, just wait a year or two. Doctors are retiring in
droves...good, hard-working, dedicated, compassionate doctors who often
can't provide you with appropriate medical care because the government and
insurance companies (because the government lets them) mandate care. Some
simply can't earn enough to keep the doors open because of the HIPAA
compliant computer systems they are forced to buy and the scant income they have
to take because of the government and insurance mandates.You will
wish you hadn't supported Obama and this madness.
Where's Waldo (mike lee)?According to the DN article..."...Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, appeared on Fox News...". "...Lee told Fox News...". "...After the
senator’s Fox News..."."...a stark departure from what
he had said six days earlier on the same Fox News..."."...“Speaking on Fox News, Lee said...".mike lee can
be seen on fox news...talking to fox news employees....Wonderful.mike lee is clearly in way over his head.Prescription...Stop the constant face time with fox news.Utah voters know
who you are.Principles?You have been taken to the
woodshed.Slinking off camera while threatening to do what you will
never do is behavior unbecoming to a US Senator from UTAH.You have
embarrassed yourself.2016 cannot arrive soon enough.
@Eric SamuelsenNotice the increase in health premiums since the
"Affordable" Obamacare was enacted? Yeah, mine have gone up 44%. So much
for affordability. You must be on the government dole to make such a silly
comment. No, it can't work without putting a substantial burden upon the
rest of us. But as long as you get your handout, I'm sure you're
happy.Keep up the good work, Mike. You're ticking off the media
and others on the radical left.
Reply to Jazzsmack.I think you are hearing from the Republicans in
Utah. Not the extreme left. The extreme left laughs at Mikey. The far right
Republicans are even upset with Mikey.
This Utah Senator doesn't seem to know if he is coming or going. One just
cannot keep changing their mind. Thought Mitt Romney's behavior set a
standard for a "don't ever do this again" message.
What's clearly terrifying the extreme right is the very real possibility
that Obamacare will work just fine.
Sen. Lee should remember that even mentioning the shutting down of the
government will only be a non starter. People don't like it because it
causes lots of problems for everyone. If Lee would have started the
conversation with "We need to talk about the funding of the IRS and its
handling of peoples taxes" this would be the right time and place to ask for
something like a special prosecutor to look into the mess at the IRS before
signing onto any funding for Obamacare. But Lee leaped before he looked.If the Tea party doesn't get smart by finding ways to win
politically instead of dying on every sword that comes along they will only
alienate and destroy the repubilcan ticket for the senate and president for the
Correct me if I am mistaken Senator Lee. But the message of the Tea Party is ax
Obamcare, then medicare, then social security. Am I receiving the correct
Dragline.... very funny.... hopefully not true...but still very funny.
But Mike, you promised you shut the government down. How can I ever trust you
These comments from the extreme left are hilarious as they are wrong and
Senator Lee is not a player in Washington. He sits at the kids table while
others make decisions at the adult table.
Mike Lee should be in the cross hairs. He has done nothing constructive since
his election to the Utah Senate. I have never seen nor has history ever
recorded such a contrary person in the US Senate. He is only out for headlines.
he cares nothing about the good of the country - only the good of Mike Lee.
Keep chasin' that rainbow, Mike.