Wow...great article...I think it's time to go slaughter me some ducks!! Toughest schedule ever...Amen...game over?!!
Let the games begin.
The funny thing about the schedule rankings is that having BYU on their schedule
strengthens Utah's SOS and having Utah on their's weakens BYU's.
Who actually has a more difficult schedule won't really be known until the
season is done.
And before Chris B says it,I wasn't aware that Chris B. was a
member of the BCS:D
I nice article to soften this year's blow. I can hear it already. "We
only won 4 games, but the Utes had the toughest schedule EVER in the state."
Could it be that Utah's schedule is tougher than BYU's because Utah
has BYU as an opponent and BYU has Utah as an opponent? If BYU is a better,
tougher, stronger team than Utah (which yes, I am implying this by virtue of my
statement) and all other opponents of each team are deemed as "equally"
tough, then logic stands that Utah has a tougher schedule... it doesn't
make them the better team though. I also ask the question, how would Utah fare
if it were to try and schedule as an independent? My thoughts are that it
wouldn't have nearly as impressive a schedule as BYU does three years into
their independent adventure!
If you can not go to a bowl game - at least you can have a tough schedule. Wait
does that even matter?
In my opinion the PAC-10/12 is overrated every year. Just look at last years
bowl results: Baylor 49- UCLA 26Texas 31- Oregon St 27Georgia
Tech 21- USC 7Wisconsin 14- Stanford 20Boise St 28- Washington 26Nevada 48- Arizona 49If the PAC was as good as it was they would win
their bowl games every. Remember that Georgia Tech was at the bottom of the ACC
last year and USC was a favorite to win it all. Strength of schedule in the PAC
is inflated like the Zimbabwe dollar. There is a reason every game is a toss up
in the PAC and it's not because they are all 'that' good. Just
look at last years results against the other conferences. This year will prove
it overrated again as the media continues to inflate the strength of the PAC.
Hey Baby---season over, for Utah that is. Bowling at Orchard Lanes yet again.
BYU's toughest schedule ever was 2004 when they played and lost to Boise
State, USC and Utah who all went undefeated that year, as well as a strong TCU.
As I recall that year the Cougars ended the year listed as having played the
toughest schedule in the country. This year's schedule is
great, but none of the teams BYU will play should finish undefeated.Utah has a great schedule simply by having Oregon and Stanford replace teams
that Utah can beat. They also have USU and BYU on the slate. There will be no
shame in Utah going 4-8 this year since they are rebuilding and the teams they
play are all improved.
Utah's schedule is tougher because they play so many BCS teams from the
mightiest conference ever known to man. I can buy that. Go Alma-mater Utes!
Re: Coug in ChinaUtah's schedule is tougher, because as
Robinson mentions they play really good teams every week (excl 3 weeks (Weber,
Wash State, and Colorado)), they also have 2 great teams they are playing
(Stanford and Oregon).Since when is BYU better? BYU goes bowling
(because of an easier schedule), but they lose to Utah.BYUs
independence schedule is mostly 2 for 1's. Utah got Michigan on a home and
home. Utah would do fine if they wanted to be independent, but they don't
want to be independent.Who would want to be independent? Idaho, Old
Dominion, and New Mexico State are all independent because they can't get
into a conference. BYU is independent because they can't get into a BCS
@nw coug - if you really look at the schedules, your comment is totally
incorrect. BYU is in the lower part of Utah's schedule for most difficult
games. While BYU has 4 very good opponents, Utah fits in the next group for
strength of schedule above Idaho St, MTSU, Virginia, and Houston.
I am always surprised at how BYU fans can take ANY piece of information and spin
it to show how they are better than Utah. Having BYU on their schedule
doesn't bump Utah from 42 to 5th. It certainly doesn't hurt, but
suggesting its the only difference in SOS is another example of willful
Utah plays 1 team that played in a BCS bowl last year. BYU plays 2: Notre Dame
& Wisconsin. I will take BYU's 2013 home schedule over
Utah's home schedule any day. Really, you can only compare 9
games, because BYU and Utah play each other, and they both play Utah State and
an FCS team. If you compare the other 9 games, the schedules are very similar,
but BYU's is more national, where as Utah's is all west coast Pac12
teams. BYU will be on national TV more than Utah and will get more exposure for
the big national games they are playing. BYU > Utah. Little brother on the hill can still keep trying. When Utah goes 4-8, all we
will hear about in the off season from Utah fans will be how hard their schedule
was, and BYU fans will ask if they have put another Pac12 sticker on the back
window of their car this year? Keep storming that field Utah fans.
This is all pre season talk. Who knows, maybe many of the teams may actually
have horrible years that Utah plays, thus at the end of the season giving them a
weaker SOS. Could play out vice versa for both sides. SOS is pointless before
games are even played. Nobody knows how good anybody will be until the cleats
hit the grass.
"Ute schedule surpasses BYU's toughest ever slate"It's amazing how much stronger our SOS has increased just by adding
Stanford and Oregon to our schedule. Too bad we have our little brother down
south on our schedule that is slightly weakening our already tough SOS. Oh well,
we'll take another easy win over the Cougies!
BYU is overrated. They will finish the season barely above .500 if they are
Coug in China"My thoughts are that it wouldn't have nearly as
impressive a schedule as BYU does three years into their independent
adventure!"Good grief. You are really impressed with byu's
schedule, aren't you. Two points to ponder:1- According to
Holmoe and Mendenhall, ESPN is the key factor in building byu's schedule2- Look ahead to 2014 and come back and tell this board how great it is being
independentAs for the rankings...go back an re-read the article.
Phil Steele has it right...I'm sorry you are disappointed but reality can
be harsh sometimes.
3 straight BCS Bowls; 35-5 (.870) last 3 years; 30-3 at home; ranked Top25 47
straight weeks; 13-4 against teams ranked top 15 last 3 years; only team in last
12 years to beat #1 and #2 ranked team in same year; led nation in sacks last
year; stingiest defense in America 2012; 3 Heisman Trophy Finalists since 2009;
10 ALL AMERICAN FIRST TEAM since 2009; and I could go on and on...BYU fans and Utah fans keep beating your chests as to who is the irrelevant
best. No question Utahs schedule is tougher. Better lace em up boys.GO Stanford!
this will just be the excuse for all the Ute fans of why their team didn't
go to a bowl game again.
Both are good schedules. I think The Utes schedule looks allot tougher because
they have been losing in the pac 12. BYU is trying to upgrade their schedule
and have been doing a pretty good job. No matter how tough the schedule is,
winning will cure all ills. I expect the Cougars to win 8-10 games his
year(with a little luck) and I see the Utes to finish with about 6-8 wins ( with
allot of luck)
RE:Cougar_IndependenceGet your facts straight. Oregon and Stanford
were both in BCS games last year, and both won. (Stanford beat Wisconsin,
Oregon beat Kansas State).Stanford is a better home game than any
BYU will have this year.Keep losing to Utah.
every year's schedule will be the toughest for the utes from now
on....that's why the utes don't go to bowl games anymore. mark it
@Cougar Independence"Utah plays 1 team that played in a BCS bowl
last year. BYU plays 2: Notre Dame & Wisconsin."Really?Not only is your statement completely false, it was a terrible
juxtaposition to make. Utah will not only play two BCS bowl teams from last
year, it will play two victorious BCS Bowl teams from last year in Oregon and
Stanford, not two overrated BCS teams like Notre Dame and a 5-loss Wisconsin
team.Keep coming up with justifications BYU fans.
If I recall correctly the SOS means nothing at the end of the year. Congrats
Utah on having a tough schedule! RC Willey should stock up on couches for you
come December!Seriously though, it's only a tough schedule
because they have no chance at playing wellin 3/4's of their games.
They're going to get slaughtered and every Ute fan knows that.
For months we've been hearing BYU fans gloat over their challenging
schedule. It's nice to have an article that shows the truth: Utah's
schedule will be much harder, highlighted by playing two teams who won BCS games
last year. (I, too, take the BYU fan to task for claiming erroneously that Utah
only plays one school who played in a BCS game. Note: One of the teams,
Stanford, DEFEATED Wisconsin, one of the two teams that BYU will play who played
last year in a BCS game.)Something that has not been mentioned is
that while BYU plays several big-name schools, most of them are coming off
mediocre seasons. Texas only finished 5-4 in conference play in the Big 12,
Georgia Tech was a bad 7-7 team, Houston finished 5-7, and Virginia was a poor
4-8 in the below-average ACC.The bottom line is that every expert
football publication has the Utes' schedule as being much tougher than
College A plays a tough schedule, and finished 8-5College B plays an easy
schedule, and finished 10-3College A wins at College B by 44
points.Yet somehow college B fans think they are better.College A goes bowling for 8 straight years (wins 7 of them). One year they
miss a bowl game (because they didn't play Idaho, Hawaii, and NMSU).
College B claims that College A never goes to bowl games (even though College B
lost to College A that season, but did beat Idaho, Hawaii, NMSU).
It's interesting how many BYU fans are coming onto all Ute articles in this
newspaper and predicting (actually, they're hoping for) a disastrous
season. However, BYU will have their own hands full, even if their schedule
isn't quite as hard. As far as bragging rights are concerned, it's
all about head-to-head competition. And Utah still owns an impressive 3 in a
row, 4 of 5, 8 of 11, and overall 56-34-4 over BYU.I'm always
amazed to read BYU fans' continued trash talk when they have nothing to
back it up.
Who freaking cares? We knew Utah would have a tough schedule this year and they
will again next year, and the next year, and the next year. They don't have
to do anything to "earn" that schedule - they already earned it when
they earned their invite (as hard as it is for a Cougar to admit it) to the
PAC12 with so many great years and really great wins. There is no story there,
DNews. Why aren't you reporting on all of the other crap teams in
"power conferences" whose scheduled are tougher than BYU's?
Here's why: because it's not news either. This article is comment bait
to sell ads on this website - that's it.BYU on the other hand
has to work and scrap not to end up with a complete patsy schedule. Give
'em credit - they are playing some good brands. Maybe also good teams this
year, maybe not, but they'll still sell tickets and TV ads.It's a pointless comparison - it's just this writer's way of
stirring up contention.
For all those thinking that Stanford is a big power house, look at their W/L
record by year:2002(2-9)2003(4-7)2004(4-7)2005(5-6)2006(1-10)2007(4-8)2008(5-7)2009(8-5 Lost Bowl)2010(12-1)2011(11-2 Lost Bowl)2012(12-2). Four winning
seasons in the last 10 years is not Power House by any means. The PAC has 1 or 2
good teams every year and the rest are mediocre at best. Even the good teams
struggle to win their bowl games at the end of the year. The BCS buster
Cinderella teams have a better BCS record than the the whole PAC and that's
without and automatic bid. Is the PAC overrated? Yes.Bowl records
from 1998-2010: 1. MOUNTAIN WEST (29-17, .630) 2. BIG EAST (40-25,
.615) 3. SEC (61-44, .581) 4. PAC-10/PAC-12 (35-36, .493)
Funny how Utah's schedule seemed to get so much tougher when it joined the
Pac-12 but ASU's schedule seemed to get so much easier. Anyhow, I look
forward to December's debate as to who is better: 6-6 BYU or 3-9 Utah?
Too bad for Utah. Looks like another losing season. I wouldn't be surprised
to see Utah and Colorado get axed when the "playoff BCS" system starts.
They got in and have laid a huge egg. PAC 12 officials may be thinking PAC 10
again to keep more of the playoff money.
@Cougar_Independence: "Utah plays 1 team that played in a BCS
bowl last year. BYU plays 2: Notre Dame & Wisconsin."So
which team are you claiming didn't play in a BCS bowl last year that is on
Utah's schedule this year: Stanford or Oregon? Why don't you utilize
Google before you come to troll?Oh and when you said, "BYU will
be on national TV more than Utah and will get more exposure for the big national
games they are playing." Change 'exposure' to 'exposed',
and you have it about right.
The Utes have an opportunity to make big noise this season with that monster
schedule. It looks like they will have to overachieve, though, since they lost a
lot of offensive production and return an avg defense from 2012.BYU
faces a great schedule and will need to win a few more or the close games than
they did last year in order to catch the eye of the BIG-12 (our chance at
getting into the party thru conference affiliation).Either way,
bragging about SOS means squat unless you get some tough wins. Good
luck Utes and Cougars!
Both teams have tough schedules. I'll be the first to admit that Utah has a
tougher schedule, but BYU has a good balanced manageable tough schedule while
Utah has an almost impossible schedule to go undefeated. No worries as a Cougar
fan, if BYU goes undefeated they'll be BCS bowlin no question. Utah will
have a tougher time getting there.
@Uncle Rico, you make me smile...Utah would be fine going
independent??? Pulleeze... Even as part of the PAC12 we Utah Taxpayers have to
flip a large portion of their tab and you think that they would be fine as
independents? Ummm, I don't think so... I don't think that the people
of Utah would allow it based on the tax hikes that would have to occur... The
State Legislature would mandate that they belong to a conference.
Another interesting point of observation that comes up when reviewing the
various lists that the author references on SOS is where other members of
Utah's Conference are listed.I've looked at 4 of them now
and in every list a minimum of 6 PAC12 teams are rated as having SOS in the
lower half of all FBS Team Schedules... BYU is in the upper half on every
list... The majority of those PAC12 teams with weak SOS rankings are scheduled
to play Utah this year and none of them are scheduled to play BYU...Furthermore, at least half of BYU's scheduled opponents this year are in
the upper half of these lists... I found that very interesting... It clearly
points out which of the two teams that the experts believe to be stronger and
which of the two teams that they expect to win in the match-up...I
personally am rooting for Utah this year when they play that tough PAC12
schedule... I am hoping that in this 3rd year of membership they are able to
beat a conference team with a winning record for the first time since joining
the league. go utes...
If Utah were truly "big brother", there wouldn't be so many
articles and posts trying to compare them with BYU. I'm the oldest of
several brothers and could care less what my siblings do - I certainly
don't contemplate whether I have a tougher job or challenges than they do.
Utes just can't get over the inferiority complex...
I do not see how any of this really contributes to anything except pitting fans
of schools against each other divisively. I am all for pride and cheering for
one's team, but let's actually talk about things that are relevant to
the season. There is very little in this article that is relevant to that.
B-b-b-but we had a tough schedule and better SOS.Yeah? So what? I
thought your superior recruiting meant something more like winning a lot of
games.Going 3-9 with a tough schedule and this SOS will prove but
one thing... the Utes are outclassed again and their fans whine a lot.I can't wait. Better get a different line of excuses going
because this one is wearing out before it happens.
Ok, here's a clue people...strength of schedule means absolutely nothing if
you don't win. Until then, all this boasting and chest pounding is
meaningless. Congrats to Utah's Big 3 for having tough and
exciting schedules this year. Here's hoping they will all do well and make
Utah proud. Now if only the hate and ugly name calling will end! Go Cougs! Go Utes! Go Aggies! oh and Weber State too!
I have been saying this ever since the schedules came out. All media has been
talking about the SOS for BYU....so its nice to know some of you aren't BYU
biased and looked at how hard UTAHs schedule is. Y fans will create facts etc.
to pub their team which is cool, but both teams need to improve from last year
also BYU needs to atleast get a victory over Utah...its been 3 straight
The headline is fact, both schools need to step up this year. go utes
The point of the article is that Utah's 2013 schedule is PREDICTED to be
their toughest ever, and is PREDICTED to be tougher than any schedule BYU has
ever played.Sorenson says this year's schedule "may be
BYU’s toughest ever and is something to be proud of, particularly with the
difficulties of producing an independent schedule. However, it’s not the
toughest in the history of the state. That would be the University of
Utah’s schedule — this year."If that offends many
Cougar fans, just remember that it isn't just Utah fans, and Utah beat
writers who believe that. Are any of you aware of a national media outlet, or
an unbiased talking head, who believes BYU' schedule will be tougher than
Utah's?Sorenson doesn't predict which team will be better
this season.He doesn't predict who will win at LES in
September.I look forward to seeing how the two teams do. And I will
try - again - to cheer for the Cougars when they aren't playing my Utes.But I've got to tell you, many of you make that harder than it
Uncle Rico"Utah would do fine if they wanted to be independent,
but they don't want to be independent."Utah trying to make
a go of Independence would be a disaster for the Utes. Home games would be
televised on KJZZ because the Utes wouldn't stand a chance of signing a
national television contract with ESPN or any other national broadcast or cable
network. It's doubtful the Utes could even schedule 2-for-1's with any
of the big boys like Notre Dame, Penn St, Miami, Florida St, Texas, or even
Michigan or USC.
Uncle RicoUnlike College U, College Y didn't lose, AT HOME, to
a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in four years. Not only did
College Y finish with a better record, College Y also beat a higher ranked team
in their bowl - #34 BYU(10-3) beat #35 Tulsa, both teams ranked higher than #39
Utah(8-5) beating #56 Ga Tech.Seasons are judged in their entirety.
Utah's big 2011 win over BYU was negated by Utah's ugly
loss to Colorado.btw, the computer rankings (such as Sagarin) that
included in the sacrosanct BCS formula that Utah fans used talk about ad nauseum
as being so "superior" to the polls, don't even consider margin of
victory - as far as the computer rankings are concerned, Utah beating BYU 54-10
was identical to Utah beating BYU 24-21.
Adding another SOS trophy to their trophy closet seems to be the only
"accomplishment" Utah fans are really concerned about this season; that,
and pulling off an upset at LES.
Having a difficult schedule is what Ute fans expected when joining the PAC-12.
We asked for it, and from what I hear from most Ute fans including myself, it
has been a blast. Watching the Trojans run onto the field last year was just
the coolest thing. There is no doubt losing games is a bummer and not as fun as
winning. Know this however - we knew there would be an adjustment period. Say
what you want, that was absolutely true. Expecting the Utes to go undefeated or
to a nice bowl wasn't too realistic early on. We're not fully vested
in PAC-12 revenue sharing until NEXT YEAR when we'll receive close to $30M!
The trajectory is headed in the right direction, the recruiting is vastly
improved, and it is a blast having such a fantastic schedule.No
matter how you slice it, any BYU fan who says they prefer independence over
conference affiliation are just full of it and not being honest with themselves.
Our team will reflect all the excellent recruiting starting about next year.
The Utes will continue to improve.It is a great time to be a Ute!
I would have to disagree with the article when it says, "the Mountain West
Conference.... is much better than the leagues USU has competed in for the past
50 years." Last year the WAC was the best of the five non-BcS conferences.
The evidence is in the WAC's overall Out-of-Conference record, which,
though below 50%, was higher than any other non-BcS conference. However, alot
of that had to do with USU itself, and they will no longer be in that
RedBlood"Know this however - we knew there would be an
adjustment period."It's nice to see Utah fans finally
starting to accept reality, but it's laughable that you're trying to
rewrite history. Go back three years to the blogs before and just
after Utah was invited to join the PAC and you'll find that, almost without
exception, Utah fans were claiming that the Utes were already good enough to
play with the big boys. There was hardly a peep from our redfeather-tailed
friends about the Utes needing a "period of adjustment" before the Utes
would be competitive.Your period of adjustment narrative implies
that Utah is on the cusp of becoming a serious conference competitor. In
reality, this is nothing indicate that this is anything more than wishful
thinking. It's just as likely that this could be a repeat of what happened
to the Utes when they moved from the less competitive Rocky Mountain Conference,
to the more competitive WAC.After enjoying one brief flash of
fleeting success in 1964, the Utes fell into complete mediocrity for the next 30
years.Don't be too surprised if that's where the PAC 12
Utes are headed.
Crying about a team hurting your SOS that has OWNED you 8 of the last 11 years
is as priceless as dancing in the streets of Provo for a 1-0 "Quest".Go UTES!!
UteologyNot as priceless as a team rushing the field THREE times for
barely beating a team they've supposedly "owned" for 8 of 11 years
or a team throwing themselves a parade for finishing 2nd, in one poll.Unfortunately, the facts don't support the hackneyed Ute hyperbole - 13
of the last 16 have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes
or in overtime, proof, that neither team has any claim to owning the other.
I've never seen so many fans get hot about a preseason comparison of
schedules. Very very funny though how Fans of one school change their tune when
reality hits and they realize tat they don't have the toughest schedule in
the country (or even the state for that matter.) and difficulty in scheduling?
You have ESPN backing you up and the most wonderful TV studio in the world in
BYU TV.The hypocrisy is very funny and amusing.Utah
expects to be in a bowl game at the end of the season. No excuses (except from
cougar fans who have that mindset)Comparisons come from playing the
game. Utah owns BYU historically and currently.
B b but we can't beat Utah.
"Mike Sorensen: Ute schedule surpasses BYU's toughest ever
slate"Maybe!According to Sagarin, BYU's 2003
SOS was ranked 14th and BYU's 2004 SOS was ranked 11th.It
remains to be seen whether Utah's 2013 SOS is ultimately ranked tougher
than either of BYU's two toughest schedules or whether Utah end's up
with a better record than either of those two supposedly "awful" BYU
teams of the Crowton era.Pre-season SOS rankings are no more
accurate than pre-season rankings.
When you brag about the strength of schedule, it means your team is bad. 4-8,
lots of down time in Decemeber and a new coach in January - that's the
future of the bottom feeders of the Pac-12.
Look at are history with good teams. We win all the good teams. Utah never wins
the good teams.
I'm worried about Chris B. Not a single comment. He is usually the first,
second, third and fourth to comment on an article like this. Does anybody know
if he is o.k.?
wwookie"Utah owns BYU historically and currently."Only in your crimson-colored dreams.BYU owns Utah 29-21 during the
last half century, and more importantly, all-time where it really counts, 17-5
in the AP final poll.As far as schedule rankings go, pre-season SOS
rankings are no more accurate than the pre-season polls. A year ago, USC was
considered a national championship contender and was ranked #1 in some polls.
USU and San Jose St were both unranked and not even mentioned in the national
dialogue. Some teams far exceed expectations; some teams are bitter
disappointments. It's impossible to predict with complete certainty which
teams will be contenders and which teams will be pretenders.
I love the pre-season hype. Who cares who's schedule is tougher. I am
looking forward to experiencing it all one week at a time.....and my alma
maters, BYU & hopefully CU, beating Utah:) Is it September yet?
Not sure why one would try to compare schedules. As noted in the article,
Utah's tough schedule is a "gift" from joining the PAC12. Their
schedule should be toughest in the state year after year.BYU's
schedule could be tougher, but as Coach Mendenhall indicated they need an easier
mix. They need "gimme" games to help recover from the bigger games.
They won't have the depth to play a slate of 9 or 10 games against teams
from the BCS conferences. 5 or 6 of those games is enough.
wwookie:"The hypocrisy is very funny and amusing."Funny - "comical: causing amusement, especially enough to provoke
laughter"Amusing - "somewhat funny: causing somebody to
smile or laugh"Redundant - "repeating meaning: with the same
meaning as a word used elsewhere in a passage"
Sweet! We even have some Stanford smack! I love it.Can't wait
for the season to start!Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!
This article is mostly nonsense1. The Pac-12 is nothing to brag
about in football2. What is the big deal about SOS anyway? It makes no
difference in the final analysis, as winning your games makes a lot more
sense.I believe this article was written solely to stir up the pot,
which it did...
YGuy:"It's a pointless comparison - it's just this
writer's way of stirring up contention."A very precise and
accurate post! Kudos to you, my friend.
So... I think BYU is playing a schedule that they want to play whereas Utah is
playing a schedule that they would rather not have. Dnquixote... No
spin here. I wouldn't matter who we played, who we beat, or who beat us. We
would still be better that U.
Sounds to me like BYU has claimed its annual prize of pre-season national
champs. Congrats to the Cougs.
"all-time where it really counts, 17-5 in the AP final poll."I love how 2-Star byu fan arbitrarily decides what "really counts" and
what doesn't. 3 straight, 4 of 5, 8 of 11, 13 of 20 and the insurmountable
overall record, 56-34-4.Regarding this article, the reality for
2-Star byu is that they're too afraid to schedule anything even remotely
resembling a legitimate back-to-back, week-in, week-out grind of a schedule.
Instead, they schedule 2 bye-weeks preceding The U/Wisconsin, MTSU before usu,
UH [minus Sims] before bsu and Idaho State before ND. Cowardice at its
finest.Personally, I wouldn't trade our schedule for anything.
The excitement/possibility for reward factors are second-to-none.Go
Mark321Las Vegas, NV"if BYU goes undefeated they'll
be BCS bowlin no question. Utah will have a tougher time getting there."byU and Utah have exactly the same chance of getting into a BCS game
this year - ZERO!
SoonerUte"They need "gimme" games to help recover from
the bigger games."Like Weber State, Washington State, and
Colorado.Once again, the "bcs" hypocrisy of Utah fans is
"Like Weber State, Washington State, and Colorado."Nice try.
Look at our 8 game stretch in between Weber State and Washington State. Shoot,
I'd even include playing in Pullman at the tail-end of it all, making it a
9 game stretch. Ask UCLA and UW how easy it was to play in Pullman late in the
season last year, when UCLA barely escaped w/a win and UW lost in OT.
AZUTE1I love how the kids on the hill pretend that Utah's
record versus BYU is more important than lifetime national rankings and
achievements. Having to resort to head-to-head comparisons instead comparing
national achievements is simply further prove of how dominant BYU has been where
it really counts, in national achievemtns.BYU's Hall of Fame is
filled with National Championship trophies, a Heisman Trophy, over a dozen
national individual awards, and a half dozen national college football hall of
fame player citations, and BYU has been a perennial Top 25 team for over a third
of a century.Utah's hall of fame closet is completely devoid of
any national team or player awards, and U can still count on one hand
Utah's lifetime AP Top 25 finishes.--------As far
as 2013 schedules:BYU has 12 regular season games in 2013; Utah has
12 regular season games in 2013. Only a jealous Utah homer would try
to make something out of where the byes occur for each team.Interestingly, only 3 of BYU's 2013 D-1A opponents finished with losing
records in 2012; ironically, Utah was one of them.
@Coug in China"Could it be that Utah's schedule is tougher than
BYU's because Utah has BYU as an opponent and BYU has Utah as an
opponent?"Let's use the Sagarin ranking approach and ignore
the BYU-Utah game.Utah BYU2. Oregon
5. Notre Dame9. Stanford 16. Texas 15. Oregon State
19. Utah State 19. Utah State 23. Wisconsin 28. Arizona
State 41. Boise State31. UCLA 46. Georgia Tech33. USC 80. Nevada44. Arizona 85. Middle
Tennessee State104. Washington State 87. Virginia 156. Colorado
108. Houston 179. Weber State 225. Idaho State
Call me old fashioned, but I believe bragging rights belong to the team who wins
the game.Remind me, what was the outcome of the Utah-BYU game last
year?And how did the game in Provo end up in 2011 - I went to bed
when Utah was up by 30-something.Who won in 2010?:)
AZUTE1Who cares what your 8-game stretch is, you start and end the
stretch with a couple of patsies.Stop whining about your "big
boy" schedule. Utah fans are the ones who claimed that the Utes could
compete with anybody. Now's your chance to prove it.
@eastcoastcoug"If Utah were truly "big brother""University of Deseret/University of Utah: Established 1850Brigham Young
Academy/University: Established 1875 @sammyg"Going 3-9
with a tough schedule and this SOS will prove but one thing... the Utes are
outclassed again and their fans whine a lot."Either you're
just making up results or you're from the future, in which case I would
recommend going to Vegas. @phoenix"Go back three years to
the blogs before and just after Utah was invited to join the PAC and you'll
find that, almost without exception, Utah fans were claiming that the Utes were
already good enough to play with the big boys. "Our starting QB
got injured two years in a row... generally teams tend to struggle when that
happens. Though, in fairness, not having our QB or RB didn't stop Utah from
beating BYU last year...
Both teams have tough schedules. It's just curious that in an article
about Univ of Utah's toughest schedule, the name "BYU" and names
associated with BYU (Bronco Mendenhall and Tom Holmoe) are mentioned five times
before the article even starts talking about "University of Utah". So
who is the being used as the standard? Help me, I'm confused.
atl134Let's use the pre-season rankings approach and ignore the
whole season - BYU has been ranked ahead of Utah in every pre-season
ranking/power poll announced so far.So, unless the Utes are planning
to add a SOS shelf to their hall of fame closet, this whole discussion is
meaningless.As proof, which team finished with the #1-ranked SOS in
2012? Do you even care?
This article seems like posturing to justify another season in the PAC
Utah'95"Call me old fashioned, but I believe bragging
rights belong to the team who wins the game."So which would you
say has more bragging rights, Alabama or Texas A&M? Oregon or Stanford?Be honest and no hiding behind qualifiers.
backpacn--"Stop whining about your 'big boy'
schedule."Here's what I posted, prior to you posting the
above--"Personally, I wouldn't trade our schedule for
anything. The excitement/possibility for reward factors are
second-to-none."My sentiment hardly qualifies as whining, but
rather on the contrary!Go Utes!
atl134"Our starting QB got injured two years in a row...
generally teams tend to struggle when that happens."Wynn came
into fall camp both seasons still recovering from injuries; whose fault was it
that Whittingham hadn't bothered to prepare a quality backup to replace
him?It's laughable that you use whiny "injured QB"
excuses, while completely ignoring the fact that BYU played an injured starting
QB for most of the season. Riley Nelson suffered two cracked vertebrae against
Weber State, which just might have had something to do with his lack of
effectiveness for most of the season, yet he still engineered a 4th Q comeback
against the Utes that came within a couple of inches of sending the game into
AZUTE1 the insurmountable overall record, 56-34-4.Bragging on
wins from the 1920's is as pathetic as bragging about how tough the guys
who beat you up are. Their sisters could beat U up, too.
atl134"If Utah were truly "big brother""The Utes wouldn't still be playing catchup in national accomplishments to
their big brothers:University of Deseret/University of Utah: Established 1850; first football season 1892; first AP Top 25 finish 1994;
first national championship - still waiting.Brigham Young
Academy/University: Established 1875; first football season 1922; first AP
Top 25 finishes 1979; first national championship 1984.
atl134Our starting QB got injured two years in a row... generally
teams tend to struggle when that happens.--- Really?1977
- BYU All-American Gifford Nielsen season-ending injury. Marc Wilson threw 7 TD
passes his first game and was all WAC that year, All-American 2 years later, led
BYU to WAC championships 3 years.1978 - Marc Wilson season-ending
injury, Jim McMahon was All-WAC, All-American 2 years later, led BYU to 3 WAC
championships.3rd string Joe Montana came off the bench at Notre
Dame.Whittingham is responsible for the QB cupboard being bare. Ute
fans shouldn't accept the excuses. It is QUARTERBACK. You can't
afford to be 1 deep there. For that matter, the Utes got extremely lucky with
John White. They had NO FBS experience at RB going into that year. Personally, I assumed that the Utes would immediately be PAC competitive
BECAUSE of Whittingham. I've been wrong so far. It isn't the league
that has outclassed the Utes, it is the coaching. Key holes in the depth chart,
musical chairs at OC. Who knows, maybe the Utes miss Gary Anderson more than
This will explain why they have a losing record for the 2nd year in a row.
Utes-Best Lil BrothersBYU's first AP Top 25 finish was actually
1977, SEVENTEEN years before the Utes cracked the AP Top 25 for the first
time.For some strange reason, the AP poll voters completely ignored
all of Utah's leather helmet era head-to-head wins and conference
championships.Inconceivable, considering all of the chest beating we
see from the kids on the hill about those unbelievably outstanding achievements.
skywalker,Texas A&M beat Alabama. The Aggies get to brag about
winning that game.Stanford beat Oregon. The Cardinal gets to brag
about beating the Ducks.BYU hasn't beaten Utah since 2009, and
lost one of those games by 44 points - at home. Until the Cougars win against
the Utes, Utah fans have bragging rights on BYU.That may change this
fall - we'll have to wait and see.
I imagine Washington St has had some killer schedules over the years...So what.
Utah's schedule is better, but that doesn't really matter. The Utes
will probably go 8-4 this year as I see it, with wins over USU, WSU, OSU, BYU,
UCLA, UA, WSU, and CU. Hopefully we will bring it right down to the line like we
did in 2011 for the south. BYU will win between 6 and 9 games. It doesn't
really matter, because they'll go to the Fight Hunger Bowl anyway.
"Mike Sorensen: Ute schedule surpasses BYU's toughest ever
slate"Gotta love the destorted view of reality constantly
emmanating from the hill; like the #1 in Utah, #4 in the West MBA signs suddenly
popping up all over town.What's with this obsessive need to
continually use BYU as Utah's measuring stick?
This article is simply to stir the pot. No one will know who has what until the
teams start playing. It seems every year some teams that are supposed to be good
are not, and vice versa.
The whole SOS thing is silly and largely subjective. And using an objective
measure often makes SOS even sillier.Using the objective NCAA SOS
formula (opponents prior year W-L record), three of the favorites to end the
year #1 have the following SOS:Ohio State 102Alabama 104Oregon 112
"Cougar_IndependenceOMAHA, NEUtah plays 1 team that played in a
BCS bowl last year. BYU plays 2: Notre Dame & Wisconsin. Little
brother on the hill can still keep trying. When Utah goes 4-8, all we will hear
about in the off season from Utah fans will be how hard their schedule was, and
BYU fans will ask if they have put another Pac12 sticker on the back window of
their car this year? Keep storming that field Utah fans."WOW. Maybe you play 2 teams that played in BCS Bowl games earlier this
year, but both of those teams lost in those bowl games as well. You refer to
Utah as the little brother, and that's fine... Because since I've
grown up I can kick my "big" brother's butt year in and year out as
well, and we will keep storming the field, because we'll have every reason
to do it. It didn't stop us from beating you last year... did it?
Skywalker"So which would you say has more bragging rights,
Alabama or Texas A&M? Oregon or Stanford?"Those are
impossible questions for Utah fans to answer.Answer them truthfully
and logically, and the answers invalidate their head-to-head narrative and their
only legitimate argument for superiority.Answer them so as not to
invalidate their head-to-head narrative, and they look silly.NOBODY,
not even someone living under that crimson bubble on the hill, could logically
argue that winning the head-to-head is more significant, and thus affords more
bragging rights, than winning a national championship. NOBODY could logically
argue that winning the head-to-head is more significant, and thus affords more
bragging rights, than finishing #2 in BOTH polls.
Truth MachineSalt Lake City, UTUteologyNot as priceless
as a team rushing the field THREE times for barely beating a team they've
supposedly "owned" for 8 of 11 years or a team throwing themselves a
parade for finishing 2nd, in one poll.-----------It
wasn't a parade for finishing at #2 in the AP poll.It was a
parade for finishing the season 13-0... no defeats, including the program that
has won 3 of the last 4 national titles, and that program down south whose fans
claim is heads and shoulders above Utah, yet have lost 3 of the last 4 and 8 of
the last 11 against them... including a 54-10 shellacking on their own field.Should a team throw a parade if they ran the table, finished 13-0, and
remained the ONLY division I school to finish that season without a loss... and
in the process ended up at #2?Surely I don't need to answer
that for you.
WhatsnuSandy, UTwwookie"Utah owns BYU historically
and currently."Only in your crimson-colored dreams.BYU owns Utah 29-21 during the last half century, and more importantly,
all-time where it really counts.-----------Alright, if
you insist.Utah outright O-W-N-S the Cougies in this series... 56-34
all time.Remember, ALL TIME is where it really counts.Game, set, match.Bye.
Utah'95"Texas A&M beat Alabama. The Aggies get to brag
about winning that game.Stanford beat Oregon. The Cardinal gets to
brag about beating the Ducks."Unfortunately for the Aggies, who
won "that game," is nothing more than a footnote. The Crimson Tide won
the National Championship.Unfortunately for the Cardinal, who won
"that game," is nothing more than a footnote. The Ducks finished the
season ranked #2 in both polls?Winning the war is FAR more
significant than winning a single battle.
LonestarRunnerSalt Lake City, UTNOBODY, not even someone
living under that crimson bubble on the hill, could logically argue that winning
the head-to-head is more significant, and thus affords more bragging rights,
than winning a national championship. NOBODY could logically argue that winning
the head-to-head is more significant, and thus affords more bragging rights,
than finishing #2 in BOTH polls.---------Sorry buddy.
Your single national championship (which was universally discredited due to the
fact that you beat no one of consequence that year) does not give you
superiority over anyone, let alone Utah, for all time.What a
ridiculous argument you're making. "We have a NC from one fluke season,
thus we have always been and will always be superior to Utah because they
don't have one."Ha ha ha ha. I can't stop laughing
from that one.That's rich.
jeru0455"The Utes will probably go 8-4 this year as I see it,
with wins over USU, WSU, OSU, BYU, UCLA, UA, WSU, and CU. Hopefully we will
bring it right down to the line like we did in 2011 for the south."And then I suppose Utah will beat Oregon or Stanford a 2nd time to win the PAC
championship, and then you'll beat Ohio State in the Rose Bowl.It's fun to dream, but eventually you wake up to smell the coffee and
realize that the Utes are battling the Buffs in the annual pillow fight in the
rockies to determine who gets to spend the off season in the basement.
Any comment board involving BYU fans invariably degenerates into their changing
the subject and saying how great they were in the early 1980's, including
their disputed "national championship". They don't like to go
into details, such as, they were the only undefeated team in 1984 and backed
their way in by beating a pathetic 6-6 Michigan team in a minor bowl. (The
rules then changed, prohibiting Utah to claim an outright championship in 2008,
which they earned much more so than BYU did. They actually beat several ranked
teams, including former #1 Alabama.)Anyway, getting back to the
point of the article. There is no argument here. Every reputable national
sportsublication has Utah's schedule as being much more challenging. It
remains to be seen how both Utah and BYU will do with their schedules. As far
as predictions are concerned, BYU fans are quick to give their doomsday
predictions concerning the Utes. Utah fans could just as easily predict the
same for BYU. I have a novel idea: Let's let the season play
out, then compare how each team did in December. I have a feeling the BYU fans
won't be dishing out so freely in five months.
Tomahawk Red"Utah outright O-W-N-S the Cougies in this series...
56-34 all time."Nobody really cares about your leather helmet
era "dominance" when BYU had little more than a club team - 30 of the
first 40 games in the series were played at Utah because BYU didn't even
have a stadium.The HUGE difference is, during Utah's period of
dominance, 1922 to 1964, Utah was practically invisible on a national scale -
only two bowl games, neither of any significance, and no AP Top 25 finishes.During BYU's period of dominance, 1972 to 1991, BYU was a perennial
Top 25 team, won a national championship, a Heisman Trophy, and had multiple
national individual award winners.The Utes can still count on one
hand, their total number of AP Top 25 finishes.BYU has more than
three times as many AP Top 25 finishes, including back-to-back Top 7 finishes,
something completely unheard of on the hill.
GoRedWEST VALLEY CITY, UTI have a novel idea: Let's let
the season play out, then compare how each team did in December. I have a
feeling the BYU fans won't be dishing out so freely in five months.---------Absolutely agree.For the last three
years, in the months leading to the season, all I have read from BYU fans is how
"we're gonna stomp Utah this year" and "I can't wait until
we kill you guys this year" and "come back the day after the game and
we'll talk" -- only to disappear entirely after yet another beating at
the hands of the Utes.It's always "OK, THIS time we're
gonna kick your butt"... and then the real Y shows up and promptly loses.
It's getting so that those statements, when I hear them now, are all bark
and zero bite.Go over to any of the lame BYU message boards and
watch how they all delude themselves into believing that "BYU lost that
game, Utah didn't win it" mentality. Denial, denial, denial.
@soonerutieLOL, you and some of your buddies on here are amazing...
We play several AQ teams this year from your big bad BCS conferences Virginia,
Texas, ND, GT, Wisconsin and yes we have to take a break once in awhile...
That's why we have Utah and idaho State on our schedule this year even
though Utah is power ranked between 57th and 68th by FBS experts... We needed a
"gimmee" or two... But isn't Utah suppose to be in a BCS
conference? I'm guessing that Utah is also a "gimmee break for Oregon,
Stanford, Arizona, etc... The point is, you can't always pick
the gimmee games by Conference affiliation... Our easiest games last year wer
with GT and WSU (both BCS teams)... And two of our toughest games were against
Boise State and San Jose State (neither one a BCS member)... Kind of blows your
theory completely apart doesn't it?
@jeru0455I have Utah winning 2 games this year Weber College and
maybe one of the two between Colorado and WSU... It's quite possible they
just win one... Most experts have them winning no more than 3... A prediction of
them beating OSU, UCLA, BYU, AZ, or USU borders on being laughable...I don't live very far from you... maybe we could wager a 7-up or
something... If Utah wins 4 or more games I will buy you and your immediate
family complete dinners of your choice at McDonalds... If they don't win 4,
you do the same for me... Deal?
@ Uncle Rico,"Utah would do fine if they wanted to be
independent" The truth of the matter is Utah could not survive as an
independent because they don't have the brand and marketability that
B.Y.U.brings. For example: in Lavell's last game when he beat Utah a few
sportscaster from ESPN where eating dinner and saw the score. I don't know
which one said it but they all let out a quiet cheer for Lavell. Why? Because
they wanted Lavell to win his last game and Lavell Edwards was the image of
B.Y.U. football. Utah needs a conference to get recognition so they are in the
PAC-12 and get the benefit of being in the PAC-12. B.Y.U. would like to be in a
conference, but because of their brand and recognition they can be independent
and play quality opponents.
I have not read the comments nor the second half of the article, but the title
is just dumb. If Utah has the toughest schedule ever, why compare everything to
Utah certainly has its toughest schedule to date. BYU's schedule also looks
like its toughest. At the end of the day, the issue will be decided, as usual,
by the final polls. A conference consisting of USC, Oregon, and Stanford is
pretty tough, but traveling to Seattle, Tempe, even Corvallis, is no picnic. My
guess is that Utah will do well to be bowl eligible.The big question
in my mind is how BYU would do against that schedule. Too bad we'll never
know. We'll only know how they do against the schedule they have. If they
do well, it will be a good season. That's all you can ask of them.Meanwhile, I can hope my Dawgs and and Beavers make some noise this year. But
I'm a BYU fan first, I guess.GO COUGS! (you too, Huskies!)
(yes, and even you, Beavs)
Tomahawk Red"Your single national championship (which was
universally discredited due to the fact that you beat no one of consequence that
year) does not give you superiority over anyone, let alone Utah, for all
time."That wasn't the topic of the discussion, but your
jealous mischaracterization of BYU's national championship is laughable.BYU's championship was recognized by a consensus of all five major
national selecting organizations - the exact same organizations that recognized
Miami's NC the year before, and Oklahoma's NC the year after.1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA,
NFF, USA/CNN, UPI1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPIIn 1984, BYU beat Air Force(8-4) on the road, a team that finished #24 in the
final AP poll, unranked only because the 1984 poll only included the Top 20, but
higher in the poll than Utah's 2004 Fiesta Bowl opponent, Pittsburgh(8-4),
which finished #25 in the final AP poll.
@Where is your NC? "Seriously though, it's (Utah) only a tough schedule
because they have no chance at playing well.."Ha. Try reading
the article. It's comparing the two teams' schedules. That is to
say...if BYU had Utah's schedule it would be a harder season for BYU.
Likewise, if Utah had BYU's schedule it would be easier for Utah.Perhaps the Des News should include more pictures for some of these fans.
Utah can't just beat BYU this year. They may not go bowling with this
schedule, but it's time for a real signature win. They have several
chances.Oregon and Stanford won't be it. I'm beating on
the USC game.
3grandslams "Too bad for Utah. Looks like another losing season. I
wouldn't be surprised to see Utah and Colorado get axed when the
"playoff BCS" system starts. They got in and have laid a huge
egg."What are you talking about? Colorado has always been in the
BCS. Being from Iowa you should know that.
Tomahawk Red,You said: "For the last three years, in the months
leading to the season, all I have read from BYU fans is how "we're
gonna stomp Utah this year" and "I can't wait until we kill you
guys this year" and "come back the day after the game and we'll
talk" -- only to disappear entirely after yet another beating at the hands
of the Utes."Your experience has been quite different than mine.
I have found that many BYU fans don't "disappear" after losing to
the Utes. Instead, they insist that "the better team didn't win,"
that "Utah places more emphasis on the game than BYU does," and that
"the Utes gets up for the game more than the Cougars do."My
question is this - how many points do the Cougars have to lose by before these
fans will quit talking smack? I mean, 44 points didn't do it!I
anticipate another great game this year. I just hope my Utes come out on top -
gored"The rules then changed, prohibiting Utah to claim an
outright championship in 2008, which they earned much more so than BYU did. They
actually beat several ranked teams, including former #1 Alabama."Please cite the rule and the date of the change that made Alabama's 2012
AP National Championship any different than BYU's 1984 AP National
Championship.The fact is, Utah finished #4 in 2004 and #2 in 2008
under the exact sames rules that EVERY AP national champion has been selected
since 1936.Quite obviously, BYU earned their championship much more
than Utah earned their "championship", since the Utes weren't
selected to be champions by anybody of consequence.btw, Sagarin only
ranked Utah's 2008 SOS 56th, not much better than BYU's 2012 SOS,
which was 63rd. Utah's 2004 SOS was ranked even worse, at 67th, not
significantly higher than BYU's 1984 SOS which was 85th.
@poyman - I take factual issue with your comment that 'most experts have
Utah winning no more than 3 games this year'. Please cite me any expert
with that prediction. Yes, they are not predicted to win more than 3 conference
games but yet to see expert predictions at 3 or fewer total wins. I'm fine
with your opinion as to a guess on wins and losses but disappointed when posters
make up facts that can't be supported.
I sure hope the players and coaches don't read these articles and
comments.For Utah the season is about conference positioning. For
BYU the season is about bowl positioning.Therefore, it is good for
BYU to take a "bye" the week before the Utah game. It's an
important game.But Utes, don't get ahead of yourselves.
It's far more important to beat Oregon State the week before the Y game. If
you do, than the BYU game is just gravy win or lose.
@ PAC man"Nobody really cares about your leather helmet era
"dominance" when BYU had little more than a club team - 30 of the first
40 games in the series were played at Utah because BYU didn't even have a
stadium"Gotta love the BYU spin! Y fans try and do everything
they can to write off 50 years of history when the statistics and wins/losses
are not in their favor. Poor Cougies!!!
Thanks, Mike. I didn't know that; actually, I still don't
believe it.Really, I didn't care about your opinion,
that's why I didn't get through the article.When, I ask,
did good journalism stop reporting the news and start hawking writers'
opinions?!Personally, I'll just make my own judgments and come
to my own conclusions based on my observations not yours.Is that
okay with you?Thanks anyway.
BYU won a national championship?! When did this happen!? Wait, wait,
wait....AND a Heisman?! This is just too much. What BYU accomplished yesterday
in '84 beats whatever arguments Utah might have regarding their SOS.
BYU fans will twist any facts they can find to try to find a way to make their
team better than Utah. Don't forget you lost to Utah three times in row and
that was just in last year's game.
Come on guys, let's just let them have this one. They need somebody to
throw them a bone when it comes to schedule smack. That 2014 schedule is looking
BRUTAL! A-uconnA-Texasnot yet scheduled (weber
state?)H-VirginiaH-HoustonH-USUA-UCFH-NevadaA-BoiseA-Middle TennesseeH-Southern MissH-UNLVNot yet
scheduled (Idaho state?)yikes..... that is essentially the old
mountain west schedule without Utah and TCU. Season ticket holders 4 years into
independence will be getting home games of Virginia, Houston, USU, Nevada,
Southern Miss, UNLV, and probably a couple FCS schools. Ouch. On the
bright side though, it could lead to a a pretty good record and possible high
ranking. Texas and Boise should be pretty good though and those two games are
both on the road. Ugh, that is the worst. Two way hard road games eliminating
chance at BCS and a whole bunch of other pretty lackluster games. Even worse,
Texas is in week 2. After losing in week 2 and realizing you're going to
San Diego Bowl and then finishing the last 10 weeks with that schedule. I
can't even imagine. My condolences.
@yarllydarb I'm guessing you're a cougar fan? Just a shot in the dark.
Obsess much? Before you Y fans start ranting and raving about being better than
the U you might want to do a google search for the last time you won the match
Bleed CrimsonUtah fans simply can't accept the fact that
Utah's first 100 years of football were completely devoid of any real
accomplishments on a national scale. The Utes didn't even crack the AP poll
for the first time until 1994, 60 years after the poll was established.Poor Utesies, pretending that beating up on a club team that wasn't even
started until 30 years after the Utes began playing football, and then had to be
restarted from scratch after WWII, was some sort of accomplishment.
sweetnewssIt's laughable that Utah fans look down their noses
at the MWC, when the only claim to fame that the Utes have in their entire
history, occurred while the Utes were playing in the MWC.Two years
after joining the PAC, the Utes still haven't won a single meaningful PAC
@COutieGot a pencil and paper??? The first one isthe guy you all
like to quote on SOS, Phil Steele, Get his preseason book, The one that I use
the most is Marc Lawrence's Playbook (he's an odds maker from Las
Vegas)... All you have to do is flip to Utah's schedule and look at the
odds... Utah is picked to lose every game except Weber State, Colorado and
Washington State and I think that they will lose one of the last two... Look
them up and get back to me... I want to hear you say "he was right"...
BTW, Utah's odds on the BYU game is 5/8 which means you can bet $5 on Utah
to win and win $8... It also means that BYU fans betting on BYU would have to
wager $8 to win $5Now if we are talking about personal
predictions... I think they win 2... The SOS argument is kind of funny because I
think that if they were to play BYU's schedule (albeit a weaker schedule
according to the experts)They would also only win 2 and that's a maybe...
They would probably beat ISU and maybe MTSU.
@Co UteMy statement is not incorrect. This "study" of
toughest schedules is based on preseason predictions and last season results.
BYU is between 35-45 in the ratings of publications mentioned in this article
for preseason predications. Utah falls in the 60-80 range. While all of it may
be bogus because no games have been played, the point remains. BYU is included
in the group of schools that strengthens Utah's schedule per this article
(Nine teams top 44 in last years sagarin...BYU was #26). Utah on the other hand
for the purposes of this article hurts BYU's schedule (Utah was #61).
Therefore, it is a fact that using last years sagarin ratings, BYU helps
Utah's SOS and Utah hurts BYU's. None of this matters in the end
because we don't really know who is better this year. Utah may end up with
a weak schedule or vice versa.
Ummm Oldtimeballer...I think you skipped the last 2 years in your calculations
where Utah has had losing records and missed bowls. None of your
"facts" are accurate.
@midpacmajorPlease cite the rule and the date of the change that
made Alabama's 2012 AP National Championship any different than BYU's
1984 AP National Championship.-------------Simple, BCS
system all but shuts out mid-majors by guaranteeing a title game to top 2 teams.
Here let me explain:"With the way the [BCS] system
is now, there's no question we wouldn't have been No. 1. We probably
would have gone to a better bowl, and that would have been great, but there
would have been four teams higher than us in the polls." -- Robbie BoscoThat's essentially what happened last season to BYU's rival,
Utah, which finished its regular season unbeaten but never rose higher than No.
6 in the BCS standings. The Utes earned a lucrative trip to the Sugar Bowl, but
despite stunning SEC runner-up Alabama, had to settle for No. 2 in the final AP
poll [16 votes]" -- SIWith tougher rules BYU hasn't even
sniffed a BCS game, or a top 6 ranking let alone a national title. In fact, TCU
over a three year period went 36-3 yet never was a national title contender.
Glad to see I ruffled a few feathers from the Y faithful.Poyman -
yep I got a pencil and paper but still waiting for a valid response. You like
to cite Vegas odds and make the statement that most of the experts predict no
more than 3 wins for the Utes. Now I have the pencil ready to go, so cite me a
single Vegas source that puts the Utes over/under at 3 wins this year. Remember
you didn't say one expert, you said most. Both the DN and the Trib have
published previous articles showing the over/under is around 5.
I keep hearing this is BYU's toughest schedule ever. It may turn out to be
that way but it will be tough to beat out the 2003 schedule. 9 of 12 teams
finished that season with 6 or more wins. Their 12 opponents had a combined
record of 89 - 60 and 3 of them ended the season nationally ranked, won their
conference championship as well as a bowl game (#1 USC, #16 Boise State and #21
Utah). That schedule also included ND and Stanford who were two of the teams
that finished under 6 wins. As far as Utah goes, they will most
likely have a tougher schedule than BYU. That looks good on paper but it is
rough on the wins. No wonder BYU finished 2003 with a 4-8 record.
UteologySorry, but the "bcs system" is completely irrelevant
as far as the AP National Championship is concerned. As USC proved, a team
doesn't even have to play in the bcs championship game in order to be
selected as the AP National Champion.As far as BYU earning the
National Championship in 1984, Robbie Bosco said in interviews following the
BYU-Michigan game that he felt that BYU deserved to be #1. All FIVE major
national selecting organizations of the day, including the AP and Coaches poll
voters agreed.As far as bcs bowls go, if the bcs had started two
years earlier, BYU would have been a shoo-in to play in a bcs bowl in 1996. U
can thank BYU 1996 and 2001 for pressuring the bcs to adopt the rules changes
that allowed Utah to crack the bcs. Without the relaxed rules for non-AQ teams,
the Utes wouldn't have had an opportunity to bust the bcs in 2004.The main reason the Utes didn't stand a chance of winning a NC in
2004/2008, is because the Utes did absolutely NOTHING prior to 2004/2008 to put
themselves into position to be a NC contender.
CO UteYou're seriously quibbling over whether "most
experts" expect the Utes to win 3 or 5 games?Either way,
it'll be another bowl-less season for the Utes, without even the prospect
of winning their September bowl versus BYU. With Utah slowly sinking to
Colorado's level, the annual pillow fight in the Rockies should be even
more exciting this year.For all their talk, its becoming clearer and
clearer, that the Utes are no walk, when it comes to actually competing with the
I love you Utah fans. You guys are beating your chests on how strong your
schedule is. Yet, how did you do the last two years of PAC-12 play? You were
5-8 last year? So with the new strength added to your schedule by adding the two
big boys of the north, we can conclude you'll lose two additional games
this year. So you're really getting excited over a potential 3-9
season...that's if you win against BYU and Utah St. It's possible you
could go 1-11 with your only win against Weber St. I guess I'll have to
agree with you. Utah's schedule is tougher than BYU's. If only BYU
could get rid of the Utah game to increase their SOS. LOL
SwoopSalt Lake City, UTsweetnewssIt's laughable
that Utah fans look down their noses at the MWC, when the only claim to fame
that the Utes have in their entire history, occurred while the Utes were playing
in the MWC.-------------------This is the perfect
example of Coogie spin.This statement is so lame, so far-reaching,
and so devoid of any relevant substance that it's tough for me to even
grasp what the poster MIGHT have been thinking while writing it.I
just don't know what to say, other than it has zero logic.It's like me saying, "It's funny how BYU looks down their nose
at the Utes when some of the most memorable moments in BYU history came versus
Utah."Sound ridiculous? That's right.
CougarSunDevilPhoenix, AZUtah's schedule is tougher than
BYU's. If only BYU could get rid of the Utah game to increase their SOS.
Tomahawk Red54-IQ is completely irrelevant.What is
relevant is BYU #26, Utah #61, the final Sagarin ratings for 2012.To
anybody not living under that crimson bubble on the hill, it's blatantly
obvious which team strengthens and which team weakens the SOS of their
Swoop: "It's laughable that Utah fans look down their noses at the MWC,
when the only claim to fame that the Utes have in their entire history, occurred
while the Utes were playing in the MWC."Tomahawk Red: "This
is the perfect example of [BYU fan] spin."Nope, this is a
perfect example of Utah fan denial. Utah fans have been looking down their noses
at every non-AQ team and conference since the moment the Utes were invited to
join the PAC. However, NOTHING the Utes have done since joining the PAC
indicates that the Utes are any better than middle of the road WAC and MWC
teams, yet Utah fans continue beating their chests about Utah's conference
affiliation as if that, in and of itself, is an accomplishment.
I agree with Razzle2. If any players are reading this...forget the rivalry...we
have it covered. USU and BYU are practice games. Keep your eye on Sep 14 Oregon
State. Utah doesn't need undefeated seasons anymore.
Razzle2 and Cowboy Dude hit the nail on the head.Go Utes...in the
games that count.
CowboyDude"Utah doesn't need undefeated seasons
anymore."Sounds like another convenient excuse for losing.Undefeated seasons are still essential, IF, the Utes are ever interested
in making the playoffs.A one-loss Utah team will be hard-pressed to
get a playoff bid versus a one-loss Ohio St, LSU or Oklahoma.Even
within the big boy conferences, there's a pecking order of elite teams, and
not.Utah is a "not".
It's laughable how obsessed Utah fans are with games that "don't
count". Suspenders boy seemed particularly obsessed, helping the MUSS storm
the field THREE times after a game that supposedly didn't count.
"Sounds like another convenient excuse for losing." Playing out a
BCS conference is an excuse for the non-conference games? I think you may have
lost the order of things.What I mean is undefeated in the conference
puts you in the "pecking order". The rest of the former BCS bowls have
tied up their alliances with BCS conferences. It is now even more difficult for
non-AQ schools to get to the Fiesta, Rose, Orange, and Sugar. It's not
right, I don't like it, but it's the way it is.
midpacmajor "It's laughable how obsessed Utah fans are with games that
"don't count". Suspenders boy seemed particularly obsessed, helping
the MUSS storm the field THREE times after a game that supposedly didn't
count."Yep, every game has been sold out since 2005. Crazy
isn't it? Fans are obsessed even in 5-5 years. What a time to be a Ute!
The desperate clawing of the byu "fans" trying to pull Utah down to
their level is amusing.
CanyontrekerIt'll be interesting to see how many fans actually
show up to watch the Utah-Colorado game in November if the Utes are only 3-8
come game time.Yep, the excitement of 2004/2008 and the mystique of
being in the PAC will eventually fade. With the steady beat of losing seasons
driving away the bandwagon fans, RES will could easily begin to look just like
the HC, as vast sea of empty red chairs.There's a reason Chris
Hill is holding back on stadium expansion. He's already seen what happens
to his fan base when the fans are no longer excited about the product
they're seeing on the court/field.
ekute"The desperate clawing of the BYU "fans" trying to
pull Utah down to their level is amusing."Not nearly as amusing
as the desperate escape from reality happening on the hill.Average
Sagarin Ranking During the Independent/PAC eraBYU #30Utah #50Top 25 FinishesBYU 1Utah 0Bowl AppearancesBYU 2Utah 1
Only in that crimson bubble on the hill could one team drag another team
"down" from Utah's average Sagarin ranking level of 50th to
BYU's average Sagarin ranking level of 30th.
RedfeatherI don't think so. Perhaps it will get easier to get
tickets. Perhaps my wife and I will get to sit together. Perhaps I can afford a
whole season of tickets. For now, I'm at the basketball games and a few
single football tickets apart from each other.Colorado is still
"The Buffs" the powerhouse of the 90's and the Big 8. 1990 National
Champions and since then winner of 2 Orange Bowls and 2 Fiesta Bowls. Yeah, I
will still go those games.
By the way - FYI - Not getting into every game at RES isn't so bad. I will
be at the Colosseum this year, again.ANDI will be in
Southbend in November! We had so much fun at Notre Dame with the Utes we
can't wait to go back with the Cougs. I may even buy some stuff at the
@talkinsports: "A one-loss Utah team will be hard-pressed to get a playoff
bid versus a one-loss Ohio St, LSU or Oklahoma."A one loss Utah
team has a MUCH better chance at a playoff spot then one loss BYU. So what?The pecking order: SEC, Big 12, PAC-12, Big 10, ACC, Notre DameYou're not even on the list.
UteologyThe pecking order: could be SEC, Big 12, PAC-12, Big 10,
ACC, Notre Dame, but only if USC is the PAC 12 representative; if it's
UCLA, Stanford, or Oregon, they'll be 4th or 5th, behind the Big 10 and
Notre Dame; if it's Utah, they'll be behind the SEC, Big 12, Big 10,
ACC, Notre Dame, and one-loss teams like Boise St and BYU.Don't
count on BYU not being on the list, especially when you've lost to the
@uteologyPecking order is meaningless for a team that's only
good enough to qualify for the couch potato bowl. Repeating
Utah's MWC flash-in-the-pan success would require the Utes winning a road
game or two against a PAC opponent with a winning record, something the Utes
haven't done this century.
OK, let's come back from lala land. BYU and Utah are not going to be 1-loss
teams with this year's schedules.The pecking order
is...signature win, PAC-12 South Championship, Rose Bowl, and lala land.Utah's only game that counts before October is Oregon State at
home. If they win and pull another win at home October 3 UCLA, they are still
sitting pretty even with a Stanford loss October 12. It's a
long shot, but Utah has time on their side with this schedule.
@midpacmajor - big difference between quibbling over the number of wins and
calling out a poster that makes a false claim that 'most experts predict
Utah won't win more than 3 games'. As for your comments
about Utah, we shall see. Both USA Today and CBS Sports think Utah will make a
bowl game this year which is why they play the games.
Tomahawk RedNorth Salt Lake, UT54-10LOLHey Tomahawk37-7.Go Devils!
BYU is obviously better than Utah at football. It's why they beat them
every year at football.
@Rockwellif it's UCLA, Stanford, or Oregon, they'll be 4th or
5th, behind the Big 10 and Notre Dame; if it's Utah, they'll be behind
the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, ACC, Notre Dame, and one-loss teams like Boise St and
BYU.-----------Like in 2008 where Utah and Boise State
finished 12-0? I'll let you do the research and find out which team
accomplished your "Quest".Or like 2001 when "BCS denies
Cougars; BYU headed to Liberty".A Division 4 team with a top 15
SOS with one loss will be behind a Division 3 team like BYU or Boise? Priceless
@backpacnPecking order is meaningless for a team that's only
good enough to qualify for the couch potato bowl-------------Yet your fan-base is talking about playoffs. Yes playoffs for a team
that still can't even make a BCS game.Think baby steps..."BYU’s history from the Cotton Bowl victory forward has been
very pedestrian; no undefeated seasons, no BCS bowl games and most importantly
no BCS Bowl game wins. BYU might want to crawl before it walks so
here is what they may want to concentrate on doing first, how about beating or
staying within two scores of TCU?"
CO Utie,Sorry, I just remembered to check back on this... You alo
have to be able to do a little math... As you go through the schedule for the
sources I gave you, you will see that Utah is only favored in 3 games and the
other team they are playing (including BYU) is favored in all of the other
games... That's how I was able to deduce that Utah is expected to have a 3
win season...Again, Marc Lawrence is a Las Vegas College Football
Odds Maker... Get his magazine at the store and look up Utah's schedule...
@cougie independence...."Little brother on the hill can still keep trying.
When Utah goes 4-8, all we will hear about in the off season from Utah fans will
be how hard their schedule was, and BYU fans will ask if they have put another
Pac12 sticker on the back window of their car this year? Keep
storming that field Utah fans."We already know what cougie fans
will say next off season don't we. The exact same thing they say every off
season. "Although Utah beat us again on the field were still better than
them. This year we will dominate them and go to a BCS and have 38 all americans
on the team"....LOL We know you would all storm the field after beating Utah
led by ducky only problem is you can't beat Utah......LOL!Keep
Storming the field after a hail marry to beat a bad Utah St. team on your home
field cougie fans.....LOL
Uteology"Yet your fan-base is talking about playoffs. Yes
playoffs for a team that still can't even make a BCS game."BYU was 4 plays away from being 11-1 and a serious contender for a bcs bowl
last season. As we've seen with Utah, Hawaii and No Illinois, all it takes
is one great season to bust the bcs."A Division 4 team with a
top 15 SOS with one loss will be behind [BYU]...?"A whatever
division Utah team with a Top 15 SOS has never even come close to finishing with
only one loss, so yes, the Utes would be behind BYU.Before talking
about making the playoffs, the Utes might want to start with their own baby
steps and beat their first conference foe with a winning record. U couldn't
even beat the only WAC team on your schedule last year, and when was the last
time the Utes stayed within two scores of Boise St?Utah fans talk
big, but in reality, the Utes are nothing more than another power conference
Vanderbilt, Duke, Indiana or Iowa St. Colorado and Washington St appreciate the
company in the basement of the PAC.
UteologyBefore talking about the playoffs, U may want to do a bit of
crawling yourself.If BYU's history since 1996 has been
"pedestrian", FIVE AP Top 25 finishes, THREE Top 15 finishes. What does
that say about the Utes, with only FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire
history.What exactly has Utah done since 2008 that gives you even
the slightest clue that the Utes will ever be a playoff contender?One #18 finish? 2-1 in bowls? One losing, bowl-less season? No wins against a
PAC team with a winning record? No wins against AP Top 25 teams? A home loss to
a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in 4 years?Since
2008, BYU has a Top 12 finish, has beaten two AP Top 25 teams, is 4-0 in bowls,
has no losing seasons, and hasn't lost to a 10-loss team in almost 30
years.Utah's ONLY significant accomplishment since joining the
PAC, is beating barely ranked BYU, an accomplishment that was negated by that
ugly loss to Colorado.Fans who live in glass houses should avoid
casting stones at more accomplished programs.
Take off the blinders Uteology and you'll see that the Utes have been in
steady decline since 2008. Two years ago, Utah couldn't even
get past a 10-loss team at home to secure a gift-wrapped PAC South, and now
you're talking playoffs for a team wasn't even good enough to qualify
for a bowl last year?Get real!
2bBYU beat Utah St on a short-pass over the middle that was tipped,
but completed, despite the pass interference that would have given BYU 1st and
goal inside the 5.BYU beat one Top 25 team and lost to three others
by 1, 3 and 6 points, 10 points total.Every one of Utah's 7
losses, including to 5 unranked teams, was by at least a touchdown, 5 by double
digits.BYU finished #26 in Sagarin; Utah finished #61.Keep beating your chest about your lucky win against BYU, because that's
all you've got.This year, U won't even have that.
Utah's schedule "superior"? Thanks for the preseason hyperbole. I
think this article was written just to stir the pot or an offering to help the
utes handle another losing season. Can't figure it out.If utah
lays an egg this year, with the new changes being discussed, they may find
themselves booted out of the PAC 12 along with Colorado with a , "go back to
where you came from" letter.
It's nice to see that regardless of topic, BYU and Utah fans can both turn
the discussion into the same mind-numbing statements. In an attempt to change
the family tree, may I pose several honest, admittedly BYU biased questions?
(Also I think most of these questions apply either way...)So does
the fact that Utah does indeed have a tougher schedule than BYU mean that Utah
fans are also willing to acknowledge BYU's victories over Oklahoma, Miami,
and even Pitt as tremendous victories? Because it really is the same thing.
Your SOS LOOKS tough now, but how will it look in the end?
And let's suppose that Utah went undefeated. With each victory, would your
strength of schedule go down, while each of your victims' SOS would indeed
steadily increase? Kind of ironic, really. Makes SOS less appealing as a drum
to beat when trying to elevate yourselves.
UteologyUnlike 2004 and 2008, unless the Utes get booted from the
PAC, Utah will never have another season where they play all of their decent
regular season opponents at home.And, since the Utes haven't
had a road win against a PAC team with a winning record since the Utes were in
the WAC, the prospects for Utah even challenging for a PAC title, let alone a
playoff berth, are slim and none.
Finally, does your most recent victory over BYU last season really make you the
better team, last year? No denying that U really did beat BYU on the field,
head to head, but does the same logic mean that two years ago, Colorado was
better than U?Or, as some U fans have already been saying on these
boards, which is more important, a victory over Oregon State or a victory over
BYU? Obviously, a winning season, return to a bowl game, and the requisite wins
over PAC whatever teams that would be required to bring such a dream to reality,
all would not be negated just because of a loss to BYU. Yet U fans
cannot bring themselves to admit that last year, BYU lost the battle but won the
war. Similarly, BYU defeating USU did not prevent USU from having the
acknowledged better season.
Y Grad / Y Dad"So does the fact that Utah does indeed have a
tougher schedule than BYU mean that Utah fans are also willing to acknowledge
BYU's victories over Oklahoma, Miami, and even Pitt as tremendous
victories?"Not likely.According to the crimson
glasses wearers, Utah's wins against Pittsburgh, Michigan, USC, UCLA, and
Texas A&M will always be considered "great" victories, regardless of
how mediocre those teams were when Utah beat them.On the other hand,
BYU's wins against Pittsburgh, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, Miami, UCLA,
Texas A&M, Penn St, Washington, Oregon St, Oregon, and Notre Dame will
always be considered "mediocre", since none of those teams could have
been any good if BYU beat them.According to Utah fans, BYU
didn't beat "anybody" in 1984, even though BYU beat Air Force(8-4)
on the road and the Falcons finished #24 in the final AP poll.By
comparison, Utah had a great Fiesta Bowl victory in 2004, even though the Utes
beat Pittsburgh(8-4) on a neutral field and the Panthers only finished #25 in
the final AP poll.As you said, SOS, like final rankings, may look
entirely different by season's end.
Uteology"...like 2001 when "BCS denies Cougars; BYU headed
to Liberty"It's laughable that you mock BYU's
exclusion from a BCS bowl in 2001, since it was that exclusion, along with
BYU's exclusion from an Alliance bowl in 1996, that precipitated the BCS
rule change that relaxed the requirements for non-AQ teams and made it possible
for the Utes to bust the BCS in 2004.As far as a Utah team with a
Top 15 SOS finishing undefeated or with only one loss, don't count on it.
The Utes have never even had a 10-win season versus a Top 15 SOS. In 2004 and
2008, Utah's schedules were ranked between 50th and 70th.
Seems that head to head matches between Utah and byu are meaningful only if byu
wins.You guys are funny.Go Utes.
@anti BCS[SPIN] As far as bcs bowls go, if the bcs had started two years
earlier, BYU would have been a shoo-in to play in a bcs bowl in 1996. U can
thank BYU 1996 and 2001 for pressuring the bcs to adopt the rules changes that
allowed Utah to crack the bcs.--------------FACT: No one
loss mid-major ever made a BCS bowl game until after 2004 when the BCS rules
actually changed. Let me see if I understand you correctly, you
want to give credit to the 1996 BYU team for pressuring the BCS to change its
rules two years before the BCS actually created the initials rules (BCS was
created in 1998)? Priceless Cougar logic!! What's next? Your
40+ years of "discussions" pressured the PAC-10 to invite Utah?
I don't remember ever seeing a comment by a Utah, Utah State or any other
programs' fans justifying a loss on the field and saying it doesn't
matter because...You guys are funny.Go Utes
@skywalkerYour entire post is wrong. BCS rules changed after 2004,
look it up.Utah's last two SOS were #49 and #41 according to
USA Today (BYU #90 and #63). BYU's SOS this is year predicted at #49
according to PS.
Uteology"Let me see if I understand you correctly, you want to
give credit to the 1996 BYU team for pressuring the BCS to change its rules two
years before the BCS actually created the initials rules (BCS was created in
1998)? Priceless Cougar logic!!""Cougar logic" has
nothing to do with it; it's simply a matter of understanding history.If you knew anything about the history of the Bowl Alliance and the BCS,
you'd know that rules for both were created by the same core group of
schools and conferences, and that years of pressure on that group to make the
process more inclusive eventually lead to the BCS rule change that made it
possible for Utah to qualify for a BCS bowl in 2004.Claiming
something couldn't happen, simply because it hasn't happened before,
is priceless Ute logic.
ekuteSeems that overall season records and rankings are only
meaningful if Utah has a better record or is higher ranked.U guys
are hillarious with your one-game per season obsession.----------Uteology"BCS rules changed after 2004, look it
up."BCS rules changes became effective for the 2004 season; read
more carefully.-------"Utah's last two SOS
were..."Who cares?SOS rankings are MEANINGLESS if U
don't win!During the Independent/PAC era:BYU has
been ranked #34 and #26 in final Sagarin rankings; average #30.Utah has
been ranked #39 and #61; average #50.The rankings are calculated by
comparing record versus SOS, so stop blaming your low ranking on your SOS.Unless the Utes are planning to create a SOS trophy shelf in their hall
of fame closet, I'd suggest dropping the SOS bravado. The only thing SOS
proves is whether you've been tested, or not. It doesn't prove how
good you are, or aren't.The best team in the country could
conceivably have the easiest SOS; and conversely, the worst team in the country
could have the most difficult SOS.
Our winning domination over byu is between Utah and byu.A win is
win, a loss is a loss, between 2 teams, always more meaningful if the 2 teams
are rivals.Have you guys ever heard a Utah fan say that it
doesn't matter that we lost to Colorado because we ended up with a better
record or a higher ranking?Have you guys ever heard a Bama fan say
that it doesn't matter that they lost to Utah because they're in the
SEC or because they ended with a better record and a higher SOS?Have
you guys ever heard a Utah fan say that it doesn't matter that we lost to
Utah State because we're in the Pac12. You byu fans are
@co utieYou said: "big difference between quibbling over
the number of wins and calling out a poster that makes a false claim that
'most experts predict Utah won't win more than 3 games'." The only person on this board making false claims is you... You claim
that USA Today predicts the Uties will get to a bowl... I read the article and
that is not what it says... The writer first of all gives your team #61 power
rating aginst a total of 126 FBS teams... He says that your team will not win
more than 3 or 4 games in league and that if that should occur you would have to
win all of your NC games (Weber, BYU and USU)... He concluded by implying that
that type of achievement is more likely to be beyond this season. CBS Spors does
list you for the Albuquerque Bowl but there are 35 Post Season games and I guess
they think that the uties will be in the top 70... I do too, but I don't
think they'll be Bowl Eligible again.As for my 3 win season
projection, I gave you sources (twice) did you check them out?
So you guys went bowling last year and Utah stayed home.Is it
possible that if you had't of lost to Utah, byu would of had an even higher
ranking or went to a better bowl.It does matter.Go Utes.
@troytown..."It's laughable that you use whiny "injured QB"
excuses, while completely ignoring the fact that BYU played an injured starting
QB for most of the season."No excuses Utah still beat the Y
despite this fact...LOL!
ekuteWhat do all of these have in common?#1 Alabama
> #5 Texas A&M#2 Oregon > #6 Stanford#5 Georgia > #8
So Carolina#9 Florida > #13 Louisville#12 Kansas St >
unranked Baylor#16 Utah St > unranked BYUAll of the teams
on the left lost to the teams to their right, yet the teams on the left were ALL
ranked HIGHER than the teams on the right.Why?Because
one game does not a season make, except, apparently, under that crimson bubble
on the hill.BYU losing to Utah DOES matter, but it's not the
ONLY thing that matters.
Right, winning a head-to-head one game does not make you the better team.
Everyone gets lucky. Like Utah's two undefeated seasons in the BCS era
(against BYU, TCU, and Alabama). Just dumb luckWinning four out of
five head-to-head games against BYU only proves "U" are reallyx4 lucky.
UteologyThe highest-ranked champion of a non-AQ conference will
receive an automatic berth if: - It is ranked in the top 12, or-
Ranked in the top 16 and higher than at least one AQ conference champion.So why didn't undefeated #10 Tulane(11-0) in 1998 or undefeated #12
Marshall(12-0) in 1999 play in a BCS bowl?Tulane and Marshall were
both conference champions and both were ranked in the Top 12 in the final BCS
standings.Quite obviously, the rules were changed between 1998 and
2004, to ensure that undefeated #6 Utah(11-0) in 2004 WAS invited to play in a
BCS bowl.It's also quite obvious that the rule change was
instituted AFTER 2001, since the BCS committee announced BEFORE undefeated #12
BYU played Hawaii, that BYU was no longer under consideration for a BCS bowl.
Razzle2Right, being ranked higher and having a better record does
not make you the better team. It's simply dumb luck to finish a compete
season with a higher ranked and better record.btw, why did you
mention BYU, TCU and Alabama, instead of Colorado State, Wyoming, and New
Mexico?After all, rank and record are meaningless, regardless of how
much higher the rank or how much better the record.
@Snack PACWrong. The so called pressure from BYU's success in
1996 and 2001 did nothing for:1998 Tulane 13-01999 Marshall
12-0 2002 Boise 12-12003 Boise State 13-12004 Boise State
12-02004 Louisville 11-1 There was no rule change prior to
2004, if it was it didn't help the teams above. The only credit BYU gets
is being a "speed bump" to what Utah accomplished twice.
@atl134..."Our starting QB got injured two years in a row... generally teams
tend to struggle when that happens."@troytown..."It's
laughable that you use whiny "injured QB" excuses, while completely
ignoring the fact that BYU played an injured starting QB for most of the
season."@2b... "No excuses Utah still beat the Y despite
this fact..."The whiny, injured QB excuse wasn't just re:
the BYU-Utah game, it was used to excuse Utah's last TWO SEASONS.Besides, you've rarily, if ever, heard this excuse being used by BYU
fans, although it's been used repeatedly by Utah fans.
@skywalkerTulane and Marshall were both conference champions and
both were ranked in the Top 12 in the final BCS standings.Quite
obviously, the rules were changed between 1998 and 2004, to ensure that
undefeated #6 Utah(11-0) in 2004 WAS invited to play in a BCS bowl.----------Nope.Utah with it's high ranking
qualified automatically, Tulane, Marshall, and Miami-OH were at large bits (aka
no guarantee of a BCS game). In 2001 BYU was NOT even an at large bid.At large bids:1998 #12 Marshall1999 #10 Tulane 2003
#11 Miami (OH)In 2004 #6 Utah was not a potential at large bid,
instead Utah automatically qualified finishing in the top 6. Just like #4 Texas
that year.Source: BCS selections history (at BCSFootball) Feel free to look up the selection process.
Uteology"Utah with it's high ranking qualified
automatically..."Nope, you're just blowing smoke because
there is no such rule.Under Rule 3 of the current rules, Tulane and
Marshall would have been automatic qualifiers IF the rule had existed in 1998 or
1999.3. The champion of Conference USA, the Mid-American Conference,
the Mountain West Conference, or the Sun Belt Conference (hereinafter
"non-AQ group") will earn an automatic berth in a BCS bowl game if
either: A. Such team is ranked in the top 12 of the final BCS Standings B. Such team is ranked in the top 16 of the final BCS Standings and its
ranking in the final BCS Standings is higher than that of a champion of a
conference that has an annual automatic berth in one of the BCS bowls.The fact that Tulane and Marshall didn't play in a BCS bowl is proof
positive that the rule didn't exist in 1998 or 1999.The fact
that the BCS selection ruled out even the "possibility" of BYU receiving
a bid, before BYU had played Hawaii, is proof positive the rule didn't
exist in 2001.Feel free to look it up.
@CordonBleuUteology"Utah with it's high ranking
qualified automatically..."Nope, you're just blowing smoke
because there is no such rule.-------------I can't
be any more clear then copy and pasting from the direct source: BCS website2004-05 GamesTeams qualifying automatically by winning
conference championships:ACC -- Virginia TechBig East --
PittsburghBig Ten -- MichiganBig 12 -- Oklahoma (defeated Colorado
in championship game)Pac-10 -- Southern CaliforniaSoutheastern --
Auburn (defeated Tennessee in championship game)Other teams
qualifying automaticallyNo. 4 TexasNo. 6 UtahOther teams
eligible for at-large selection by the bowlsNoneStep-by-step
process1. Orange Bowl was championship game -- No. 1 Southern California
and No. 2 Oklahoma.2. Rose Bowl had Big Ten champion Michigan.3.
Sugar Bowl had SEC champion Auburn.4. Rose Bowl took Texas to replace
Southern California after the Fiesta Bowl consented to release Texas.5.
Fiesta Bowl selected Utah to replace Oklahoma.6. Sugar Bowl selected
Virginia Tech.7. Fiesta Bowl selected Pittsburgh.PairingsOrange Bowl (championship game) -- Southern California vs. OklahomaFiesta Bowl -- Utah vs. PittsburghSugar Bowl -- Auburn vs. Virginia
TechRose Bowl -- Texas vs. Michigan
...Continued"Until before the 2006 season, a non-BCS school had
to be ranked in the top six for a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl game. Under
congressional pressure and with the advent of a fifth -- the BCS national
championship game -- bowl, the standard for "mid-major" schools were
relaxed to guarantee a spot for any team in the top 12."So
indeed Utah was picked for being ranked in the top 6. And also true that BCS
rules didn't change until after 2004 for non-AQ team qualification.It's also true that regardless of the rules BYU hasn't even
sniffed a BCS bowl, that is hasn't even been "eligible for at-large
Uteology"before the 2006 season, a non-BCS school had to be
ranked in the top six for a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl game."No such rule existed in 1998, 1999, or 2001. That's the whole point. The
rule guaranteeing a non-BCS school finishing in the Top 6 a spot in a BCS bowl
game didn't exist before 2004.Even if Tulane, Marshall, or BYU
had been undefeated and ranked in the Top 5, there was no guarantee that any of
them would have received a BCS bowl bid. You can thank BYU and other school like
Tulane and Marshall for creating the public pressure that eventually forced the
BCS to relax its non-AQ rules to be more inclusive.
uteology: It's also true that regardless of the rules BYU hasn't even
sniffed a BCS bowl, that is hasn't even been "eligible for at-large
selection".BYU was Eligible for at-large selection in 2009:5. Florida6. Boise State10. Iowa11. Virginia Tech13.
Penn State14. BYUBYU(11-2) finished 2009 ranked #12/#12 in the
polls, with a win over #18/#18 Utah, and a re-sounding defeat of then #16/#16
Oregon State in the Las Vegas Bowl, better than anything Utah has accomplished
in the last four years.
@ekutieNo, BYU would not have gone to a better bowl had the Center
not snapped the ball to no one in the backfield, or had Sorenson been able to
convert a gimmee field goal against the uties on their home field last year...
BYU was under contract and unless we qualified for a BCS Bowl we were obligated
to play in San Diego... BTW, where did yo guys p..., Oh wait.
Marked it DownPark City, UTUteology"before the
2006 season, a non-BCS school had to be ranked in the top six for a guaranteed
spot in a BCS bowl game."No such rule existed in 1998, 1999, or
2001. That's the whole point. The rule guaranteeing a non-BCS school
finishing in the Top 6 a spot in a BCS bowl game didn't exist before
2004.-------------What are you talking about? Yes it
did. That's not my words. I told you the source, do your own research.
@Mark id DownThe rules in 2004 for non-AQ teams were the same as
1998, they change in prior to the 2005 season. Here's some
research:"Prior to 2005, non-BCS schools had to finish in the
top six to get an automatic berth. That meant the likes of Tulane (12-0, No. 10
in 1998) and Marshall (13-0, No. 12 in 1999) didn't get a shot. Utah did
break through, finishing sixth in 2004. It took the threat of
Congressional intervention for the qualification standards to be loosened prior
to the 2005 season [After Utah busted the BCS monopoly]. Since then, WAC
champions Boise State (2006) and Hawaii (2007) have taken advantage of the top
12 threshold to cash in on lucrative BCS paydays. But even then, both schools
had to go undefeated in the regular season to get there."Guarantee for non-BCS schools is no molehill for Mountain West duoDennis
Dodd (CBS Sports)Sep. 10, 2008
UteologyPROVE that the rule existed prior to 2004; it obviously
existed in 2004, which is before 2006, but you haven't offered a shred of
proof that it existed before 2004.
@Marked it DownUteologyPROVE that the rule existed prior
to 2004; it obviously existed in 2004, which is before 2006, but you
haven't offered a shred of proof that it existed before 2004.--------------I provided two sources that say the rule did exist
prior to 2004."Prior to 2005, non-BCS schools had to finish in
the top six to get an automatic berth. That meant the likes of Tulane (12-0, No.
10 in 1998) and Marshall (13-0, No. 12 in 1999) didn't get a shot. Utah did
break through, finishing sixth in 2004." -- CBS SportsIt's
okay if you refuse acknowledge it. It's obvious you have bigger issues, so
at this point I rather spend my time debating my kitchen table.