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BYU study shows Cinderella teams draw well in basketball's Final Four; could the same be true in Division 4 football?

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  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 31, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    "This follows Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany telling ESPN in April that his conference will no longer play teams from other divisions, like the Football Championship Subdivision." -- Brandon Judd

    Hopefully, Larry Scott and/or Dr. Chris Hill get on board with this thinking as well. I'd bet that if one would have polled 1,000 Ute fans which game this season they would be least excited about watching, you'd get 1,000 fans voting for Weber St. Apart from being on the receiving end of a last-second cancellation, there shouldn't be any reason at all we should be playing FCS teams. If we feel we'd need a warm up game, we could always pick one from the FBS ranks. We have teams like Wyo, Colo. St, N. Mex, UNLV, and/or Idaho right here along the Rocky Mtn. corridor we could choose from instead.

    GO UTES!!!

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 31, 2013 12:05 a.m.

    Y Grad / Y Dad,

    "Sorry, guys. The fact that the research, and accompanying story doesn't tell you what you want to know does not make the research flawed. Flawed comment."

    Ok, fair enough. In that case it's simply a sloppy article meant only to persuade its audience into one vein of thought. What point is there in referencing a study and drawing parallels if theres no mention of any actual details or results of the referenced study.

    Sloppy and manipulative indeed.

  • wtrskiier8 Darnestown, MD
    July 30, 2013 8:21 p.m.

    The article on Deseret News is not the research. All it does is briefly mention the research then pose it's own question that is semi-related and does not answer it because it can't.

  • RDLV Costa Rica, 00
    July 30, 2013 7:27 p.m.

    re:FatMan86

    I am amazed at the comments about the research by Scott Grimshaw by those who have obviously not read his paper. I don’t recall anything in the paper that mentions the BYU or Utah basketball or football programs. It is not “obscure statistics and self serving research” since his results may very well have a large impact on television coverage of the final four. It appears that CBS may very well be interested in his findings.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    July 30, 2013 2:36 p.m.

    "In a world where there is what is being coined "Division 4" football, would a Utah or BYU provide a boost in TV ratings if it made a four-team playoff?"

    Absolutely;

    Utah - won two BCS games and all of those claiming they beat a "weak" Pitt or "unmotivated" Alabama would want to see if they could indeed compete with the big boys. I for one think they deserved a shot at the title in 08' but, that's another story.

    BYU - has a decent sized fan base but, also quite many who hate them and would watch in hopes of them getting stomped. Also, the old people who bemoan 84' might tune in for many of the same reasons they would Utah.

    No science behind any of what I said (or behind the premise of this article really)...

  • FatMan86 West Jordan, UT
    July 30, 2013 2:32 p.m.

    Obscure statistics and self serving research are what you focus on when you rarely have wins against top teams.

    Another thing you do when you can't compete is pound your chest about your conference membership.

    Both are equally lame.

    Get it done on the field or on the court. The rest will take care of itself.

  • RDLV Costa Rica, 00
    July 30, 2013 6:29 a.m.

    re Brother Benjamin Franklin and motorbike

    You two are very quick to summarily dismiss the research and conclusions of a paper published in a reputable peer-reviewed journal. The research covers data from basketball’s Final Four. I see no inference to Division 4 college football in neither the published paper in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis nor the BYU new release. They did, however, look at data from the NFL and European Premier League soccer. Brandon Judd, of DN, is apparently posing the question of whether or not this applies to Division 4 football. There may or may not be any relationship but it is an interesting question.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 29, 2013 11:09 p.m.

    motorbike
    Cottonwood Heights, UT

    "Very flawed research indeed. There's a major difference between a cinderella in basketball versus football. A cinderella basketball team is usually one that surprises in the very first game of the tourney and then continues to gain attention by winning up to 6 more! Without a football playoff system of at least 8 teams it will be awfully difficult to create a similar cinderella feel."

    Brother Benjamin Franklin
    Orem, UT

    "This is flawed research. Please come back and provide something of benefit to our time."

    Sorry, guys. The fact that the research, and accompanying story doesn't tell you what you want to know does not make the research flawed.

    Flawed comment.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 29, 2013 8:50 p.m.

    Very flawed research indeed. There's a major difference between a cinderella in basketball versus football. A cinderella basketball team is usually one that surprises in the very first game of the tourney and then continues to gain attention by winning up to 6 more! Without a football playoff system of at least 8 teams it will be awfully difficult to create a similar cinderella feel.

  • Brother Benjamin Franklin Orem, UT
    July 29, 2013 7:41 p.m.

    This is flawed research. Please come back and provide something of benefit to our time.

  • RDLV Costa Rica, 00
    July 29, 2013 6:15 p.m.

    re: yodak
    Hit "spent a decade" in the DN article and the BYU new release gives a fairly good layman's account of the published article.

  • yodak Dallas, TX
    July 27, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    wtrskiier8 - How did you know there was a published paper in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis? The article never mentions this - not that I can tell, anyway. I've read it now at least 3 times and I don't find the notation anywhere.

  • wtrskiier8 Darnestown, MD
    July 26, 2013 9:57 p.m.

    Yodak-
    The data is all there, not in this article but read the published paper in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sport. It's statistics research so the only thing this is based off is 'substantiating data' as you put it. This article is reporting based on a published academic journal, if you want the 'exact' results they are all there.

    Chris B and MyPerspective-
    I'm sorry this is not good enough research for you. University of Utah doesn't even have a statistics department so you would be hard pressed to find anyone who had the skills to run the statistical models this study is based off of. According to the researchers a school like BYU would not have been a Cinderella in 2011 because they were a #3 seed so your point about this coming from a 'non-power' program aren't backed up.

    This is just a write up of the published academic paper. All of your questions are essentially answered and accounted for in there.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    July 26, 2013 5:50 p.m.

    One of the big reasons people like Cinderella's is because most of the fans are from smaller schools. They want to see the smaller school do well and destroy the big schools. The cheering section is enormous. In addition, people are so sick of teams like Duke in it every year. In every case, I cheer against a big school no matter the game. I am so sick of the one-sidedness in sports that favor certain schools, so when Cinderella's come along, I HAVE to cheer. Two of my favorite teams are VCU and Northern Iowa because they took down some schools that are always in the tourney and it's so nice to not have to see their name all the way through the tournament.

  • yodak Dallas, TX
    July 26, 2013 4:06 p.m.

    First of all, let's not forget this article is about the NCAA basketball Final Four, and not about the BCS. Although I would like to think that bowl games involving non-BCS teams are more popular among casual fans across the country, there are far too many differences between NCAA football and NCAA basketball to even make a reasonable comparison. We only have opinions and assumptions.

    Which brings me to another point - there's no substantiating data of any kind to back up the conclusion in the article. All we have is: "the research found the only teams that provided a significantly larger audience on a national level was the team or teams labeled as the 'Cinderella.'" I don't question the conclusion, because this is something I've believed to be true for a long time. Once the Cinderella teams are out of the tournament, most casual fans stop watching - at least that's what my anecdotal evidence suggests.

    Personally, I find it very disappointing that no supporting data were presented in this article. I would like to see the numbers for myself and see just how "significantly" the results differed.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 26, 2013 3:52 p.m.

    MyPerspective

    "Cutting edge research" at the U often involves coming up with the most clever way of sneaking a brewski into RES.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    July 26, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    MyPerspective -

    It may not be cutting edge research, but at least it ain't cold fusion!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 26, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    This article shines a bright spotlight on the kind of work that byu fans think is research.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 26, 2013 1:52 p.m.

    coming from a non-power program, the desired results aren't shocking

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    July 26, 2013 1:05 p.m.

    If the Cinderella happens too often then it will lose its luster. The power teams in college basketball have lost their luster because most of the true stars don't stick around in college basketball anymore for more than a season or 2. If Lebron had played 4 seasons at Indiana, UNC, or one of the other power schools I believe the ratings would have been off the chart to watch his power conference school play.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    July 26, 2013 12:41 p.m.

    This exemplifies why the BCS System and college football stinks.

    A Cinderella story happened only once in college football (1984). Instead of celebrating it, the greedy created a system so it would never happen again.

    EVERY other sport in the history of sports has a playoff (with more than 4 teams, which is lame.) College football votes a champion. Lame.

    Oh and before all you utah "fans" claim that they were the Cinderella team, just one question...

    Did it produce a NC?

    that is why I love college basketball. I an live with the football thing because it is only 12-13 games and its rigged like a presidential election.

    Give me basketball, where teams get to play to find out who is the best. In a tournament. Like MEN (and Woman). Not Prima donna schools who think they have earned the right not to have to play to get a championship and then cry about the unfairness of having to simply exist with "other schools."

    Or have fans that have terrible teams but a proud to be part of a corrupt system.

    Looking forward to Basketball a little more than football at this point.