Comments about ‘Utah Valley interfaith: Linked by the act of believing’

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Published: Sunday, July 21 2013 8:00 p.m. MDT

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samhill
Salt Lake City, UT

For most of my nearly 63 years I've found the need for people to castigate others very perplexing. Particularly when it comes to differences of belief/perspective.

Simultaneously, I understand the desire to associate with people who, if only superficially, seem to share one's beliefs considered most fundamental and important.

Such is the case, generally speaking, with religious belief or non-belief. Hence, the thousands of religious sects/organizations. All formed in an attempt to gather with other people who, at least ostensibly, seek to share same/similar beliefs.

Naturally, as in many other things, children follow in the foot steps of their parents. So the associations based on belief are also often familial. But, there are exceptions.

For anyone who isn't an only child, they have probably experienced having a disagreement with a sibling. Nevertheless, in many such cases, they are able to still love that sibling despite the disagreement.

Since I'm convinced we are all children of the same God (Heavenly Father), it is that situation that I liken to disagreements between any people.

That is, even if you think your brother/sister's ideas are ridiculous, you can and should still love them.

A Scientist
Provo, UT

I had some respect for Walton until I read "atheists...[are] a faith group because “they believe in not believing.”

Nonsense.

I do not believe in Santa Claus. The fact that I do not believe does NOT mean that I believe in NOT believing, and my not believing in Santa Claus does NOT make me a member of a "faith group" similar to groups that DO believe in Santa Claus.

Walton's reputed concern over words and the meaning of words has been completely undermined by this absurd, nonsensical muddle of words.

How unfortunate.

george of the jungle
goshen, UT

Nobody is perfect, now sin no more.

RBB
Sandy, UT

@ A Scientist,

While it may conflict with your believe that atheism is reason - it simply is not. An atheist can no more prove that God does not exist as the Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. can prove that God does exist. To the contrary, there are multiple accounts throughout history of people who have claimed to see God. Thus, there is actual "evidence" that God exists. While the atheist may choose to believe that there is no GOD, that belief is ultimately based on faith - not reason.

BYR
Woods Cross, UT

Ms. Walton redefines 'tolerance' according to today's culture. When she says: “You tolerate Brussels sprouts. You tolerate that loudmouth at the office. But you shouldn’t tolerate someone for what they believe. You should love them and respect their beliefs and their ways of worship, even if they are vastly different from your own.” she subtly changes the definition. And she is wrong. I suggest she read "The Intolerance of Tolerance" by D A Carson. While I strive to be as tolerant and as possbile, I will not devalue my values at the cost of being tolerant. Tolerance is not love. God help us if it ever becomes such.

Straitpath
PROVO, UT

Linda Waltonis a Seventh Day Adventist n

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

The act of believing is a statement of willingness to believe the unknowable. Statements that one has seen 'god' are no more evidence of god than tom and jerry are of talking cats and mice. If you want to believe this fine, but do not expect me to accept it because you say it's true. There's more than enough hypocrisy around to call it all into question; if you want me to give it deference you'd better bring more to the table than you have thus far. I'm not interested in tolerance of delusion, be it by individuals or masses.

jeanie
orem, UT

For our summer vacations as a family we attend religious services at a different denomination than ours. We want our kids to see that not everyone worships as we do. We have been warmly welcomed by an evangelical pastor here in Utah, the Hindus who worship in Spanish Fork, a Jewish synagog and the Catholic Church in Salt Lake City, so far. It has been a good experience for our children to see the commonalities and differences of sincere worshipers of God. The Pastor in Provo, a friend to the LDS community, told us with a big smile, if we wanted to have a real day of rest to feel free to come worship with them anytime. Apparently, he is very familiar with the lay ministry of the LDS faith. (It was tempting. =] )

EternalPerspective
Eldersburg, MD

The essence of people coming together under the guise of doing good works is in itself, never a bad thing. However, one must also remember that with such endeavors as this article portrays, there is always a fundamental distillation of God's eternal truths, which is superseded by the need to find common ground of the human experience. Hence, tolerance becomes the theme, not faith.

This pattern has always emerged on the earth following time periods when God's Priesthood authority and Church was on the earth (as mentioned in the Bible), but fell away due to unbelief, followed by many hundreds of years where man-made interpretations and fabrications convincing many to follow a very different doctrine.

I applaud people who seek to do good as those mentioned in this article. But, in the process of doing so by gathering only by works and not concrete faith, what type of damage does this do when participants are distracted away from truths of God that exist in this day? For faith needed to know pure truths from God requires that eventually a foundation of truth becomes the means by which He leads one to the source of all truth.

Kings Court
Alpine, UT

@RBB, you are on shaky ground. There a plenty of people who claim they've been kidnapped, tagged, tortured, and impregnated by aliens from outer space, but that doesn't mean they exist. The same goes for Santa Claus. How many children claim to have seen Santa? I find it rather disturbing that so many people willingly follow the judgment of some long distant ancestor who believed a convincing storyteller that claimed he was a prophet a God, or a child of God. That ancestor raised his children in those beliefs who then raised their children in those beliefs and so on. It shows that most people don't question, they follow. They blindly follow because those beliefs become ingrained in their very culture. The Greeks fervently believed in their Gods as much as Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc believe in theirs, but in the end none can be proven. It is easy to prove God doesn't exist when he never comes around when asked. The burden of proof should be on those who claim that he does.

jeanie
orem, UT

Scientists in their quest for knowledge historically have run into research results that cannot be explained by currently accepted methods of proof. Science has had periods of crisis when rules of gathering and explaining new knowledge must be reconstructed. The rules of scientific proof change through necessity.

Many people rely on logic and reason to view everything in life but logic and reason can be defied.

Many people rely on their senses because they do not trust intuition or emotions but even our senses can lead us astray.

Given these facts, how would one prove God does not exists or that He does? Who really holds the burden of proof when neither camp can prove anything through these methods?

Maybe people who are supposedly "blindly" following the traditions and cultures of their families actually know something that can be learned through ways other than those limited ones listed above.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: EternalPerspective This pattern has always emerged on the earth following time periods when God's Priesthood authority and Church was on the earth (as mentioned in the Bible), but fell away due to unbelief, followed by many hundreds of years where man-made interpretations and fabrications convincing many to follow a very different doctrine.

But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority=(exousia,right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in His name(John1:12 Grk.N.T.)

Early Christian Creed=(statement of faith)Romans 10:13, Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD(YHWH) will be saved. See,Joel 2:32.

Current Christian Revival is thriving in China. Even though sharing the gospel is illegal in the communist country, that hasn't stopped Christians from boldly proclaiming their faith, Pastor Huilai said the preaching of the word of God in the countryside is usually followed by miracles and healings.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@RBB – “people who have claimed to see God. Thus, there is actual "evidence" that God exists. While the atheist may choose to believe that there is no GOD, that belief is ultimately based on faith - not reason.”

First, the standard for evidence is predictable repeatability, thus your example of people claiming to “see” God fails from the start.

As to your assertion about atheism being a faith based point of view, please explain what the faith based point of view is of a non-astrologer with respect to astrology.

EternalPerspective
Eldersburg, MD

sharrona

"But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority=(exousia,right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in His name(John1:12 Grk.N.T.)"

There are two parts here. One could be interpreted as only "belief" needed to be saved. But, the other is "authority" to become the children of God by Priesthood authority and ordinances written throughout the New Testament.

Is it the case that Priesthood authority is not required in this day as if to say the works of Jesus Christ negate the same "authoritative" ordinances by God's Priesthood as patterned in the Bible, or have creedal and reformation Christian churches simply rationalized away what cannot be disputed from the Bible, because they all lack such authority?

If mere belief in Christ is all that is needed, why have a Christian religion and church at all? What of the dead who never heard of Christ? Are they condemned?

Truth can be hidden and rationalized away by those who do not have Priesthood authority, but the Bible offers proof to the contrary with a power entrusted to man to produce works worthy of faith.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: EternalPerspective.. Truth can be hidden and rationalized away by those who do not have Priesthood authority, but the Bible offers proof to the contrary with a power entrusted to man to produce works worthy of faith.
It’s clear from chapters 8-10 of Hebrews, that in his death, Jesus fulfilled the priesthood typology of the O. T. in his own blood, he puts an end to the sacrificial system, once and for all! The point is this: we have such a high priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven. (Hebrews 8:1-2). Shadows and types Col 2:17.

Melchisedec, Do Mormons meet the Qualifications of Hebrews 7:2-3, ... without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually

EW
HENRIETTA, NY

To the secularist types, do not misunderstand that there are different kinds of truths which are gained by different processes. In the physical world, the scientific method works well. For spiritual knowledge, faith is required. If secularist don't want to take the proverbial leap of faith, that's their business, but to imply or say that all people of faith are somehow inferior because of their beliefs - gained in a way open to secularists but not taken - is ridiculous at best. For the mathematician, you might understand these two types of knowledge as orthogonal to each other.

EternalPerspective
Eldersburg, MD

sharrona

Jesus did put an end to the sacrificial system of Mosaic Law when it was fulfilled. This did not imply the Priesthood wasn't subsequently given unto others in the New Testament.

Jesus told people to pick up their cross and follow Him, but this was not just a call to believe, but to the do His works. How can people have power over their carnal and fallen state, save they receive the same patterns as in the Bible with authoritative Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost as a constant companion to guide, teach, edify, and sanctify.

You do err in understanding the scriptures because ye wrest them. The works of the Savior did not end with His mortal ministry and the Apostles. Rather, from unbelief, His Priesthood authority and church was removed from off the face of the earth for thousands of years until people were once again humbled and sufficiently prepared to receive it again. Such was the days of Joseph Smith in America.

Those who deny revelation in the present understand not the works of God. They walk in darkness at noon day and are blinded by the craftiness of men.

EternalPerspective
Eldersburg, MD

sharrona

As a follow on to address the following quote from you:

"Melchisedec, Do Mormons meet the Qualifications of Hebrews 7:2-3, ... without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually"

Melchisedec was a man whose foreordination and faith typified the Priesthood that was after the Holy Order of the Son of God. Melchisedec was given the High Priesthood by God and it became known in his name because of his exemplary administration of ordinances and service.

But, Melchisedec is not the Priesthood, nor is the Savior the Priesthood. Rather, the Priesthood is ordained into the hands of men who live worthy of it from God through the Savior, unto a prophet, who then ordains other Priests.

Yes, all worthy Mormon men who continue after enterance into the waters of Baptism and accepting the Abrahamic covenant can receive the Aaronic (Levictical), followed by the Melchizedek Priesthood, by way of oath and covenant through another having authority of God. The Priesthood is central to God's true and living Church through all dispensations since Adam. There is no Church of God without Priesthood authority.

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