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Budget guide from McDonald's assumes two jobs

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  • Rustymommy Clovis, NM
    July 19, 2013 6:28 p.m.

    If McDonals paid better, the prices would increase. People would be griping that the food was expensive. Higher prices could put McD out of business. They have to compete like everybody else. Not mentioned is that most McD's are not owned by the Corporation but by individual franchise owners. They have every right to choose how much to pay employees. You are talking about thousands of small businesses around the country. Those minimum wage jobs are not intended to be career positions. Most fast food places are good at promoting from within. I worked at fast food and was given a raise after 3 weeks. I was offered the option to enter management training with another raise in pay. So, if I had wanted to stay, by now I could have been making a very nice salary. Employees start at minimum wage, but if they show leadership and motivation, the prospects for the future can be there. If you want to get paid to do as little as possible, then minimum wage is just the right place for you.

  • Lightbearer Brigham City, UT
    July 19, 2013 4:46 p.m.

    Perhaps Nosea had something like this in mind - this is only a very short excerpt:

    "As we pass around among the country cottages & see the stone walls which are thrown down but more commonly the hedges in a decaying & mutilated state it is very naturally for us to inquire what have you here? & what the cause of this destruction? & we generally get but one answer, 'a few years ago I had a flourishing garden on the spot you now see & it was surrounded with this hedge which was planted by my own hand; I had a cow of my own which fed on yonder common - I labored on my masters farm, & had plenty of time, morning and evenings, to till my garden, in which I raised scarce enough for my family, & every year I had a good pig, plenty to eat, & we were happy, but our Lords & masters have become more avaricious, & are trying to get all they can themselves, & will hardly let the poor live.'"

    The source, which can be found on the BYU website, is Eugene England, "A Modern Acts of the Apostles, 1840: Mormon Literature in the Making," p. 13.

  • Nosea Forest Grove, OR
    July 19, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    Redshirt:

    Since I sense that you are more interested in arguing your preconceived notions instead of ascertaining truth, I will not bother looking up all the sources I use -- the quote itself comes from JD, if you really want to find it. I will just say further, that BY was 100% behind getting all he could over from England, hence the Perpetual Emigration Fund he initiated, so they could live the United Order, the opposite of Capitalism.

    You are wrong on inequality ranks among nations, as the US ranks higher than any industrialized nation for inequality, and well above Germany for instance, as shown by CIA stats (per Gini Coefficient, the standard measure of inequality -- not some abstract slope): https://www.cia.gov/

    I will say the US has high wealth inequality because the Capitalists (via Capitalism) take it all (CEOs with $15 million per annum) while labor suffers with next to nothing, just like industrial revolutionary Europe (Charles Dickens describes the same gap in his writings of the era). Any socialism there is only serves to mitigate the devastation the unfettered greed of the 1% would cause otherwise, left unchecked.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    July 19, 2013 12:02 p.m.

    To "mark" yes, really. I found a graph of income inequality, and yes, Germany showed a steeper slope on its distribution. The steeper the slope, the more inequal the distribution. So yes, Germany has greater income inequality. The same can be said about Spain.

    The US is tilting more socialist every year. Most people don't recognize it because it is being done through fascism.

    To "Nosea" please provide the source for that quote. I cannot find in anywhere. The only things I could find were quotes about greed.

  • Vince Ballard South Ogden, UT
    July 19, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    Why don't they stop making excuses and start paying a wage that at least raises their people to the poverty line? Remember, folks, the minimum wage is not worth what it was 30-50 years ago.

  • Nosea Forest Grove, OR
    July 19, 2013 11:27 a.m.

    Redshirt1701:

    BY was referring to his mission to England in 1840, and the appalling conditions that existed well into the Industrial Revolution there (Capitalist taking it all and labor very much in distress). That, if anything, was the birth of Capitalism, not Socialism. Just read some of the letters BY sent to JS in Nauvoo to see how disgusted BY was with the Capitalism of the Industrial Revolution.

  • Rebel ,
    July 19, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    A great realistic article that works. I am presently out of the job market because of age an health but live on a budget of $2000.00 a month.All of my life except when self-employed I had a 2nd job. I never took food stamps, ADC, Medicaid, WIC or any of the state or federal welfare programs. In my old age I have taken some medical help from the Veterans Clinic earned by my service during the Korean Conflict.
    We need to learn the lesson of what is needs and wants.
    I presently have an employment application with Costco and a few other stores who can use a
    wheel-chair greeter or other work that can be done setting down. Twelve or fifteen hrs. a week job at minimum wage would help with some of my wants.
    I feel very blessed to have live in this great country where opportunities abound for those who will work for it.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    July 19, 2013 10:57 a.m.

    Oh, something else about that chart, it determines income using all income, including government income. In other words if someone gets a housing subsidy that is included. Therefore a reason the USA line would be flatter is because of the socialist programs in this country, the redistribution programs.

  • rfpeterlin Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 19, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    A point often over looked is that if we really think that by forcing Walmart to pay their employees more that they wont charge more for their products, then after while, the Walmart employees, wont be able to shop at Walmart. Likewise, forcing McDonald's to pay more will cause the same escalation. There is a simple solution here, like in China, we take public ownership of every industry where there is a pay disparity or where any cost due to Labor impacts a core commodity. On one hand we want a hands off government, while simultaneously wanting the government to protect us. Unless the Government wears blue tights and a red cape and will save us for free, there is no simple solution!

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    July 19, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    Really? You are really trying to make that point when you are dealing with a chart with four nations, USA, China, Brazil, and India?

    The chart is trying to show wealth inequality around the world third world countries compared to first world countries. And I imagine if you break out the top twenty percent on the USA line that line is much more uneven.

    If the chart is comparing "socialist leaning" countries vs capitalist where is Canada or Germany or Holland, or any other first world country with "socialist leanings"? But of course, even the USA leans socialist, or actually tilts heavily socialist,

    So each of the four countries on the chart has "socialist leanings".

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    July 19, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    To "Nosea" the irony of that statement is that it isn't capitalism that does that. It is communism and socialism that sink the masses into poverty and degradation while only a few have massive wealth.

    Look at the graph in "The Haves and the Have-Nots" in the NY Times. The flatter the line, the more equal the distribution of income. Do you notice that the socialist leaning nations and communist nation have GREATER income inequality than the US does with capitalism?

    IMO Brigham Young was warning about the coming socialism and the destruction that it causes.

  • Captain Green Heber City, UT
    July 18, 2013 11:31 p.m.

    Fast Food restaurants are not career job providers. They are supposed to be low paying... in fact, whatever the market for the area can bear. There shouldn't even be a Minimum Wage! It is a Communist tactic to redistribute income. It is very counter productive and should be banned throughout the entire USA. The reason so many jobs have been driven overseas is because of stupid and stifling government restrictions that are destroying our economy and our nation! When are people going to wise up?!

  • Nosea Forest Grove, OR
    July 18, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    It is just like BY said, the ways of the world (Capitalism) tend to sink the masses into poverty and degradation while exalting the few to unfathomable wealth. Witness McDonalds and Walmart.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    July 18, 2013 4:31 p.m.

    I am still tyring to figure out who forced these people to work at McDonalds. Can the liberals tell us who is forcing these people who are tryng to support families to work for minimum wage?

    I think the problem isn't that McDonalds is using welfare programs to keep their wages low. If adults were not working there, teenagers who don't need anything more than spending money would be working there. The problem lies in the unskilled laborers who don't have any job skills and don't seek to gain any specialized job skills that are using the welfare system.

    Think back 20 years ago to the typical McDonalds worker. They were typically teenagers or maybe unmarried college students. Now, we have mothers who figure that they can work at McDonalds to support a family because the government will cover any expenses they can't earn for themselves.

    Can the liberals explain why this is the fault of businesses for paying minimum wage, when it is the employees use welfare so that they don't have to develop any skills.

  • Kelliebelle66 West Jordan, UT
    July 18, 2013 4:19 p.m.

    This is a stepping stone type job. I worked at KFC and put myself through a 4 year private university and earned a degree. My husband makes a six figure income but started work at a gas station pumping gas back in the days before self service pumps. All my 7 siblings and my husbands 7 siblings started small like this in a job that doesn't require education or much skill. He has a brother who is nearly 40 and mentally disabled who works a fast food job. The reason these jobs don't pay much is because they don't require any special skill or education. In all the fast food jobs I had they all had opportunities to move up into management through training and education. My husband tried to hire a computer programmer several years back for $80,000 a year. He was also looking for a shipping clerk at a bit above minimum wage. He had a line out the door for the shipping clerk but it took him several weeks to get a programmer. Education and training are the key. You have to work your way into a good job.

  • BU52 Provo, ut
    July 18, 2013 4:17 p.m.

    Agree with CP, you'd have to be pretty stupid not to understand this basic economic concept and before the river of tears gets too wide for these poor workers, show me who's holding a gun to these employee's heads and forcing them to work there?

  • Ry Guy SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 18, 2013 4:01 p.m.

    75% of people with minimum wage jobs are young teens/college students who live at home. If people are trying to raise families on minimum wage jobs, there are better ways to address that issue. Increasing minimum wage will mainly help kids just looking for some extra spending cash.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    @Redshirt "That is a whopping 6.4 cents per hour. " That my friend, is a lot to somebody in my bracket.

  • moniker lewinsky Taylorsville, UT
    July 18, 2013 3:44 p.m.

    James, the problem is that sometimes people who have good jobs lose those jobs and they already have kids.
    If You Cant Feed Your Baby (Yeah, Yeah)
    Then Don't Have A Baby (Yeah, Yeah)
    And Don't Think Maybe (Yeah, Yeah)
    If You Can't Feed Your Baby (Yeah, Yeah)

    Even so, you have to ask yourself how much good it does to say how things should be when there are hungry children who aren't being cared for. Lamenting on how things should be doesn't put food in their stomachs.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    July 18, 2013 3:28 p.m.

    To "Larceny" you should do the math. Quite often if you took the salaries of the CEO at a big company and spread that money around to all of the employees, it would amount to less than 10 cents per hour.

    For example, Ford paid its top CEO 22 million last year. Now if you took all of that money and gave it to all 164,000 employees, that would amount to $128 per year. Not really that much. That is a whopping 6.4 cents per hour. Now, you lose the expertise of the CEO who won't work for nothing, and risk driving the company into the ground.

  • netjes Grand Rapids, MI
    July 18, 2013 3:16 p.m.

    "Similarly, the typical Walmart costs each state within which it's located an addition $900k per year in food stamps and other publicly funded assistance because Walmart wages and (lack of) benefits pretty much guarantee living in poverty."

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Firstly, the typical Wal-Mart saves shoppers millions and millions of dollars a year in reduced costs of items purchased there. I personally save a few hundred dollars a year. And this savings is not invested outside the community. It's all spent on food, fuel, car repairs, soccer club, etc, elsewhere in town.

    Secondly, no one with a good job and not on food stamps takes a Wal-Mart job. People who take Wal-Mart jobs are already on food stamps and without jobs, or with temporary jobs. Do you really think someone making $40,000 says, "Well, I'm not on food stamps, but I could be, if I quit my job and started working at Wal-Mart"?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2013 3:12 p.m.

    So here's the formula. Company pays employees low wages, so low that they qualify for food stamps and other types of assistance. They get called lazy moochers even though they're working.

    Here's one other issue though... a lot of people need two jobs to get by. If they only needed one instead then that frees up a job for someone else (and counteracts the reduced jobs issue some of you raise).

  • TheProudDuck Newport Beach, CA
    July 18, 2013 3:11 p.m.

    Put another way, McDonalds isn't so much being subsidized by the rest of us paying for the government benefits its low-wage employees use. Rather, *because* of what money a McDonalds worker *does* earn, he needs that much less in public benefits.

    The pay isn't great, but it's better than nothing. And "nothing" is the real alternative here.

    McDonalds pays enough to attract enough workers to enable it to make money. When the marginal cost of hiring another worker exceeds the marginal revenue that can be generated with the help of that worker, McDonalds stops hiring. This is Econ 110. If the pay were higher, it would not make sense for McDonalds to hire as many people.

    Every $1,000 earned by a McDonalds worker is $1,000 that the public sector isn't pressured to spend on welfare benefits.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2013 3:06 p.m.

    @Albert Masler
    "that cumulatively would add two million good-paying, tax-paying jobs,"

    That is incredibly false. At the most it would make around 10,000 jobs and a lot of them would be temporary in the form of building the pipeline.

  • Eliyahu Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 18, 2013 2:53 p.m.

    @Kramer: "Seems like those that work at McDonald's made that choice and are happy to have a job."

    It must be wonderful to live in a place where there are more jobs than workers and where everyone has the job he chose out of many available. For the rest of us, the job we have is often the only one we could find in an oversaturated and competitive market, competing against dozens of other similarly overqualified applicants who simply need to pay the bills and put food on the table. Companies like McDonalds might effectively be arguing that their jobs are just for teenagers and losers, but they're ignoring the reality that when there are more workers than jobs, a lot of people end up with jobs far below their training and abilities, and they struggle to survive on the pittance paid to them. And those who've lost their jobs and have to latch on to one of these jobs to feed a family don't have the option of deleting the family and starting over. They end up with two or three jobs to pay the bills.

  • Barbara Wyly Guilford, IN
    July 18, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    James D, Morrison, has it occurred to you that people with kids lose their jobs, have a family illness or disability or death, or get divorced? Has it occurred to you that in many towns Walmart or McDonalds may be the only viable option due to there not being other work or inability to get to other work? Has it occurred to you that such people may have to stay in such a town due to a house that won't sell or kids in high school, or the need to have family support? Has it occurred to you that women who have spent most of their lives putting their children's and husband's needs first may not have the skills (even if they have gone to college)to find other work when a emergency turns their life upside down?Low paying employers not only cost the government money, they make their money off the backs of the sick, uneducated, the widows, orphans and others down on their luck. Those people work-the stockholders sit and watch their money grow.

  • Larceny Rural Hall, USA, NC
    July 18, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    I think with all the money the top executives pocket each year, they certainly can and should afford a better paid wage to all employees. The service at McDonald's is terrible and the employees are always grumpy. I saw an employee almost stab somebody with a concealed blade right by my hotel in Chicago.

    They should invest in better people, and pay them for it.

  • grandmagreat Lake Havasu City, AZ
    July 18, 2013 1:00 p.m.

    I have to chuckle over this one. Times do change, cost of living really has risen. My first job at the age of 16 working in at a Soda Founting was .25, that is right it took me 4 hours to make 1.00. Years later I had what was considered a "good Job" as a Secretary making 50.00 a week, helping support 4 children. i realize that cost of livinig has made a terrible jump since world warII, but I still live in a very nice 4 Bedroom Home, we drive two cars, own a travel trailer, and have no debt. Guess some of us were just able to manage what we had back in those days. Wish my Grandkids could have the same blessings of living within their means. When I see families that are 0n welfare, with each member having a Lap computer, I can't help but wonder what has happened to our value system

  • Shawn S. OGDEN, UT
    July 18, 2013 12:02 p.m.

    Add another business subsidy to the budget ax.

  • fredsgirl1 usa, MA
    July 18, 2013 11:01 a.m.

    Sadly Aggielove, the GOP has made even that option unattainable. It took my daughter over 20 years to pay back her loans. She came out of college in the depth of the layoff feeding frenzy and it then took 25 years for her to find a job that used her business skills, and she has a Masters in International business and speaks several languages. They found less qualified people who would have cost them less.

  • Walt Nicholes Orem, UT
    July 18, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    It seems that the Deseret News isn't as much about news as it is about shaping public opinion.

    I miss the old Deseret News.

  • Lightbearer Brigham City, UT
    July 18, 2013 10:28 a.m.

    I don't understand the mentality that says, "Some people don't deserve a living wage." Is that what Jesus would say? He did say, "Treat others the same way you want them to treat you." Would you like to be paid the bare minimum your employer can get away with? Is that how you would like others to treat you? Instead of earning a modest profit, and paying his employees well, is it more in the spirit of Jesus's words for an employer to maximize profits, and pay his employees poorly, or even fire them all together for the sake of the biggest possible bottom line? Is that how the employer would like to be treated if he was in the employee's place?

    If a restaurant owner can only make $45,000 dollars a year, he has no incentive to open a restaurant? What incentive to work, then, does an employee have, who makes a mere $10,000 or $12,000 a year? Hunger?

    Do you ever stop to consider that people in minimum wage jobs are doing the best they can? And yet they still don't deserve to earn enough to live?

  • red rocks Saint George, UT
    July 18, 2013 10:08 a.m.

    I would bet that most of the people complaining about the wages at McDonalds probably own stock in the company or will be eating lunch during the week at McDonalds because it is cheap and convenient. You can't have cheap food on expensive wages.

    I know it seems cold to say. If the people who work at these types of places don't like it, change your work skills. I don't always like my job and sometimes I feel like they take advantage of me. I have choices, change jobs or accept it. Life s rough accept it make the best of it and keep going forward.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    July 18, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    If you step back and take a deep breath you will see that this is a Progressive straw man argument. The remedy is to pay everyone a living wage. Except for the talking heads at these think tanks, everyone else should make the same money. If the McDonalds CEO is limited to...say $50K a year...then the rest of his package goes to all the frycooks, distributed evenly, of course.
    No fair rewarding the better workers; it's all about equal pay.
    And the government either makes sure that happens OR takes over the industry altogether.
    That's the Progressive solution. It's the Occupy solution.
    Now, we are not a free market; we are already a hybrid. And Obamacare is another big step towards the Occupy utopia.
    But in order to do what these critics are suggesting we must undo the very economic model America was built upon.

  • fredsgirl1 usa, MA
    July 18, 2013 9:44 a.m.

    Oh great! We subsidize McD's wages with our tax dollars.

    I'm just glad I can't eat their food anymore or I would have to boycott them. This is becoming the budgeting move of choice for so many businesses. Top people get millions and the workers are forced to ask for help and are subsidized by us the American tax payer.

    Then the GOP calls them “Takers

    How far do the American workers have to fall before politicians remember how America got rich and strong. It wasn't by the big guys getting millions or politicians who leave early on Thursdays and don't work on Fridays at all, or the people who actually do the work having to live on food stamps.

  • vdubbin' Ogden, UT
    July 18, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    Seriously. McDonald's has never been a living wage for families. Why is the DN feigning surprise here. More trying to vilify the wealthy?

  • Vandelay007 Midway, UT
    July 18, 2013 9:25 a.m.

    You mean to tell me that a job where high school aged kids (with absolutely no marketable skills) more than qualify isn't going to make me rich?

  • Icarus Dallas, Texas
    July 18, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    This article and some of the comments highlights the sorry state of education and economic illiteracy in this country. It is basic economics that wages are based on supply and demand. The supply of people qualified to do the work at McDonalds includes about every able-bodied person above the age of 14. Since the supply is so high, the wages will be low.

    Liberals can try to distort that basic fact and attempt to raise these wages through laws and regulations but that will have many unintended consequences such as reducing the number of these types of jobs available, removing a career stepping stone for many teenagers and college students, as well as removing incentives to better one's economic position through training and education.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    July 18, 2013 9:06 a.m.

    I worked several jobs that started at minimum wage for 18 years. In the meantime, I got decent grades in school and then went to college. I don't make minimum wage anymore. No one deserves $15 per hour to put together big Mac's and stuff fries in a box. If you don't think minimum wage is fair, pay someone $100 to mow your lawn.

  • logical Meridian, ID
    July 18, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    It’s the economy, stupid! A lot of you people are complaining about minimum wage jobs, but the real problem is that the economy is not producing good jobs. Look at the books of large corporations and you will see a lot cash parked overseas, protected from the USA's terrible business tax. Why do we even tax "businesses"? They are just owned by individuals who have to pay tax on the profits distributed by the business. So, the numbers are; Fed corp. tax rate of 36%, Fed individual tax rate of 28%, state rate of 6%. That is 70% of business income that is taxed. THIS IS STUPID!!!!!! And we are the only country in the world where are legislators can't see this????? No wonder companies don’t pay dividends with their cash.
    The feds are not entitled to our money!!!! If businesses were not punished for making money they would be more likely to expand. Can you say “jobs”?

  • Clinton Draper, UT
    July 18, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    Why do people assume that McDonalds is an appropriate career choice for an adult and that it should provide somebody with a professional wage? I know some adults work there, but for the most part McDonalds is a part-time job for high school or college kids and nobody should expect to buy a house and two cars on a Would-you-like-fries-with-that? skill set.

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    July 18, 2013 8:39 a.m.

    Each month the jobs report keeps showing us that the economy is getting stronger. What is missing from that report is in whose eyes the economy is being strengthened. The report fails to show that many of those newly created jobs are minimum wage and/or part time jobs that do not, on their own, provide a living for those who are fortunate enough to find them.

    I appreciate this article because I too had not considered that as these corporations add jobs to the job market, many of those same companies are also costing tax payers a considerable amount to cover social service costs to bolster families who cannot make it on what their jobs are paying them. And fine, perhaps jobs at McDonalds and so forth are intended for students just entering the work force, but in this depressed economy, the ones needing the jobs are families more so than high school students.

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2013 8:34 a.m.

    Blue
    Salt Lake City, UT
    "Similarly, the typical Walmart costs each state within which it's located an addition $900k per year in food stamps and other publicly funded assistance because Walmart wages and (lack of) benefits pretty much guarantee living in poverty."

    And, of course, without the Walmart jobs they would be making how much? Which would cost each state how much in unemployment? Food stamps? etc?

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    July 18, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    RBB, Don't you know that for the anti-capitalism crowd, there is no such thing as 'unintended consequences'? Just pay everyone a 'living wage' no matter how much value they bring to your company, otherwise you are just exploiting your workers. It doesn't matter where the money comes from. Everyone knows that every business owner has a swimming pool full of cash that they are just hoarding and unwilling to share with their endentured servants called employees. We need to demand that every worker gets a living wage no matter how low their skills or uneducated they may be.

    Use the same logic when you talk about taxes and Obamacare. Money to pay for things comes magically out of thin air. Just raise taxes or provide free health insurance, there will not be any negative effects. Right?

  • Badger55 Nibley, Ut
    July 18, 2013 7:47 a.m.

    I don't know anyone who can support a family on 35 hrs per week. Especially at a fast food place. People are just too lazy these days. I work 70 hrs a week at three different jobs to support my family of four. two of which are part time. People need to quit complaining and do what needs to be done to be self sufficient.

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    July 18, 2013 7:41 a.m.

    It would be nice for everyone to make a "living wage." However, there is always a trade-off. Give a 50% raise and what happens

    1) The owner would make no money and there would not be McDonalds. If the owner makes $125,000 and has to give a $4/hr raise to all 20 employees, his or her income just dropped to $45,000 a year. No one in their right mind would take the risk of opening a restaurant to make $45,000 a year.

    2) The price of a burger would go up substantially. How many of us would cut back on eating out if the price rose 50%. Even if you spent the same each month, you would eat out 1/3 less often. As the number of people eating out goes down - there is less need to restaurant workers - leading to layoffs, and/or

    3) the owner would invest in new technology to make operations more efficient - leading to layoffs. How many ditch diggers do you know? We have lost millions of manufacturing jobs because it is cheaper to buy a machine than pay someone $15.00/hr to turn a bolt.

  • TDS Clearfield, UT
    July 18, 2013 7:36 a.m.

    All things remaining equal for every person that"applies themself" there will be one person who is demoted or in the best case s enario experiences a reduction income due to increased supply. LBJ thought the economic pie could be expanded to accomodate the poor, middle, and upper classes but without any major changes in our current technology all that would happen would be a redistribution of wealth not the creation of new wealth.

    This trend has occurred internationally as well. While the U.S. has declined ecnomically other developing countries have risen - redistributing the wealth not creating new wealth. We often lecture developing countries that if they work harder then they can be successful like us but what nobody has said is that their economic expantion will decrease ours or another's wealth.

    Let's not patronize the poor with a falsehood just to make ouselves feel better. There are individual exceptions to be sure, but national and international economics currently dictate that there are limited resourses and the distribution of said resoures is stratified.

  • Bob A. Bohey Marlborough, MA
    July 18, 2013 7:14 a.m.

    @Aggielove: Not automatically, many unemployed or underemployed college grads would argue that your statement in nothing more than a myth. The reality of the working world has changed dramatically in the last 20 years or so.

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    July 18, 2013 7:11 a.m.

    It is not WalMart's or McDonald's responsibility to pay a "living" wage. They pay the market value for the work their workers provide (actually they likely pay well above what workers are worth - that's why the workers are willing to take these jobs - they often don't have better alternatives).

    The only way to make a living wage is to provide goods and services that the market is willing to pay more for. In most cases this takes some type of specialized skills which requires education, training and experience. And gaining education, training and experience usually requires sacrifice and a lot of hard work, but they can be attained. We went without furniture, lived in basement apartments, put in 12-15+ hours per day for years to gain the education and experience necessary to make a reasonable living. It was difficult, but worth it.

    I can't imagine my grandfather or father letting themselves think that it was some corporation's responsibility to pay them a "living wage". They both put their pants on, sacrificed, and went to work gaining the skills they needed. Then they worked hard to keep these skills up-to-date.

  • Mugabe ACWORTH, GA
    July 18, 2013 7:07 a.m.

    "It is essential that we comprehend the distinction between real money and paper money substitute. One cannot get rich by accumulating money substitutes, one can only get deeper into debt. We the People no longer have any "money." Most Americans have not been paid any "money" for a very long time, perhaps not in their entire life. Now do you comprehend why you feel broke? Now, do you understand why you are "bankrupt," along with the rest of the country?"
    (United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303
    Speaker-Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:)

  • Albert Maslar CPA (Retired) Absecon, NJ
    July 18, 2013 6:39 a.m.

    Much ado about nothing, as Shakespeare put it. All this McDonald two-job fluff is a diversion from the real problem which is real jobs. President Obama personally nixed much job creation and the major one coming to mind is his blocking of the already approved Keystone XL Pipeline that cumulatively would add two million good-paying, tax-paying jobs, reducing substantially the two-job necessity to support a family. There are many more instances, raising the serious question of "Why the deliberate hurt to the real 15% unemployed though that figure might be double in the minority community. Where is the outrage?

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 18, 2013 6:31 a.m.

    College won't guarantee a good paying job. I have a degree in Computer Science and an excellent career in the field; yet over the last decade I've seen more and more good IT jobs being offshored to India and other countries.

    The Rock says that "unskilled labor is only worth so much"; and fails to take into account that were it not for these "unskilled laborers" the company wouldn't be able to produce their widgets. The "makers" in this case ARE the "unskilled laborers".

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    July 18, 2013 6:24 a.m.

    "There are programs like food stamps, Medicaid and the earned income tax credit to help them along,"

    ---

    Welfare Queens in the United States:

    McDonalds
    WalMart
    Exxon
    Chevron
    ...

  • JacksonCountyConservative Blue Springs, MO
    July 18, 2013 5:44 a.m.

    When I see "Think Progress" I think progress toward Markism. Karl was a VERY unhappy person who could not manage money - supported by his mother most of his life. His writings pull at the heart strings of most people who take his critisms of the culture he lived in as truth. Free markets, including McDonalds, don't use indentured slaves. Employees work there by choice and are free to work elsewhere for higher pay. This article seems to be lacking in gratitude for the many opportunities McDonalds gives to high school students to get an entry level job and gain experience doing work with expectations (demands) for both quality and timeliness. I know Deseret News can do better than this.

  • ErinKengaard Falls Church, VA
    July 18, 2013 5:22 a.m.

    See "Robots Are Starting To Take Over Fast Food Jobs" by Dan Fastenberg. So, why are we importing cheap labor subsidized by struggling taxpayers?

  • ErinKengaard Falls Church, VA
    July 18, 2013 5:20 a.m.

    "When large companies make profits by paying their workers unlivable wages, we end up subsidizing their bottom lines." Which is why large companies are spending millions lobbying for more immigration to keep ages low. There is a massive amount of money to be made by agriculture, hospitality industry, education, tech industry, et al, with costs externalized and borne by the middle class. That is why over a billion is spent on lobbying.
    See "Our Massively One-Sided Immigration Debate" by John Carney @ CNBC.com (3/26)
    See "Untangling the webs of immigration lobbying" by Lee Drutman and Alexander Furnas at The Sunlight Foundation (3/25)

  • Brother Benjamin Franklin Orem, UT
    July 18, 2013 3:56 a.m.

    This country was founded upon the American dream, the basis that you can do what you would like to do. I think the commenters on this board need to be more sensitive to the fact that there are lots of good hard-working people at McDonald's and other places that work just as hard for $8 an hour as anyone else does.

    There is no reason for someone to be ashamed of the work they do or the money they make, be it McDonald's or whatever--whether they make $1,000 per month or $10,000 per month. The purpose is if that person finds fulfillment and purpose in their work, takes pride in it, and displays a work ethic.

    Stop with the complaining about how you wish things should be better. You ought to be grateful for how good you have it. If you doubt that, try living where some of these people immigrated from sometime or talking to them about what it was really like. Then maybe you'll understand a little better.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    July 18, 2013 3:43 a.m.

    Entry level jobs that require no skills are not supposed to be able to support anybody. The very thought is ridiculous. These jobs give young people work experience and give them a few bucks while they gain the education and skills to get jobs that will pay.

  • CP Tooele, UT
    July 18, 2013 3:33 a.m.

    So I don't see anything newsy about this article..many people who don't even work at McDonalds need to have at least a full time job and a part time job or both parents working in order to pay mortgage on a humble house and keep food on the table in today's economy.

  • staypuffinpc Provo, UT
    July 17, 2013 11:57 p.m.

    I worked at McDonalds as a teenager, starting out at minimum wage. Except for management, it's not a job you should count on as being your lifetime full time job. And if you're even a swing manager, you make much better than minimum wage. I went on to get a PhD, as did my buddy who also worked at McD's. It was a great job, but no one should plan on it being a terminal profession, while earning minimum wage.

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    July 17, 2013 11:23 p.m.

    Without McDonalds, hundreds of thousands more would be completely unemployed and therefore completely reliant on the dole. Thank goodness for people in this world who take risks, start businesses that are PROFITABLE so they can continue to attract investors and expand and hire more people. Leave charity to charitable organizations. Leave business decisions, like wages, to the business pros. McDonalds did not become a multi-billion dollar multi-national that employs hundreds of thousands of people by listening to whiny bleeding hearts.

  • wer South Jordan, UT
    July 17, 2013 10:30 p.m.

    This story went national about two days ago. How about some current events?

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    July 17, 2013 10:15 p.m.

    The cost of living has nothing to do with wages paid. When I buy anything I do a cost value analysis. If the value is in line with the cost and I can afford it and either want the item or need the item, then I buy it. If the value is far lower than the cost, I walk away.

    Employers do the same thing. Unskilled labor is only worth so much. Market forces also play a part. Illegal aliens have bloated the supply of unskilled labor. An over supply results in low wages.

    If people on minimum wage want something better maybe they should get some skills and or some education. If people don't want to end up supporting a family on minimum wage maybe they should actually study in high school and get some marketable skills.

    When I worked for minimum wage I lived at home with my parents. The money was great!

  • ParkCityAggie Park City, Ut
    July 17, 2013 10:11 p.m.

    what Aggielove meant to say is that the RIGHT college/univrsity with the RGHT degree can fix this. Yes the more education you have (up to a point) will always help you land a better job, statistics on this subject don't lie. Also, don't discount technical institutions, the biggest demand for jobs has been favoring the technical schools. Also when getting a degree, although much more difficult, go for the degree in an applied science, you can't go wrong, and your chances of landing a good job are much better in the long run.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    July 17, 2013 9:32 p.m.

    Wow, easy for you to say, james d. morrison. What if it's the only job you can get in this economy?

  • ManInTheMiddle SANDY, UT
    July 17, 2013 9:23 p.m.

    McD's is assuming they live in an apt/house with another minimum wage earner.

    Do we really expect our economy to provide its least skilled, least educated, least productive workers housing where they can live alone??? I missed that part of the Constitution where it says we'll provide an economy where you are entitled to live by yourself.

    Minimum wage jobs are designed to be temporary. We should never allow the media to spin it any other way.

  • james d. morrison Boise, CA
    July 17, 2013 9:12 p.m.

    people with kids shouldn't be working minimum wage jobs and people with minimum wage jobs shouldn't be having kids.

  • gee-en Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 9:06 p.m.

    Saw a wonderful documentary, on cnbc i think, about a minority gentleman who worked his way up from cooking fries at McDonalds, to being a cashier, to being assistant manager, to being a manager, to saving up enough to buy his own mcdonalds franchise. I'm not sure he was the most college educated gentleman, but he had enough smarts to know that it takes hard work, ambition, savings (delayed gratification) to get ahead.
    McDonalds, Walmart, pretty much any company in America are all wonderful opportunities that give those that are smart(or wise), hard workers, ambitious a chance to do whatever they want...if they want to continue to work minimum wage, they are certainly free to do so. If they want opportunities to better yourself and advance, there are always many and endless ways to do it. You are free! Do something with that freedom! Don't take it for granted and don't waste your opportunities!

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    July 17, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    To be truthful I never envisioned working at McDonald's as something more than a job people did in high school or working for college. The bigger problem might be that these ARE about the only jobs out there to raise a family for those who lost their other job.

  • Kramer's Corner Penryn, CA
    July 17, 2013 8:56 p.m.

    Remember that a person isn't assigned a job. They seek employment. Seems like those that work at McDonald's made that choice and are happy to have a job. Seems like those complaining don't work there and are trouble makers, probably pro-unionists.

  • JimInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 8:33 p.m.

    An additional problem is that with Obamacare taking effect, businesses are cutting employee hours to under 30 hours to escape having to provide health insurance. Instead of two full time jobs the person will need three or four part-time jobs. McDonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's should come up with a common uniform so the employee does not have to change uniforms between jobs.

  • tchris Vernal, UT
    July 17, 2013 8:25 p.m.

    Tee Hee! The picture is eight years old! Is that the most recent McDonalds picture you could find?

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 8:24 p.m.

    Similarly, the typical Walmart costs each state within which it's located an addition $900k per year in food stamps and other publicly funded assistance because Walmart wages and (lack of) benefits pretty much guarantee living in poverty.

    Are we really going to endorse an economy that maintains the position that, "Yes, this is a full-time job, but no one actually expects you to be able to live on what you earn here?"

  • Hamath Omaha, NE
    July 17, 2013 8:05 p.m.

    @ Aggielove

    True... assuming you get the right degree. Get a degree in communications, history, or any other field that has way too many graduates for the # of jobs available and you can...
    Work one job at McDonalds while moonlighting in your major on a contract basis. Many do this.

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    July 17, 2013 7:43 p.m.

    College can fix this.

  • ProudUtahn St. George, Utah
    July 17, 2013 7:04 p.m.

    Some jobs are not meant to be livable wage jobs just stepping stones or as 2nd jobs. Where is the balance of a livable wage and cost of product? Back when McDonalds first came to my home town it was for first time employment, for high school students or college students, to learn a work ethic and only a stepping stone for the future.

  • FairchildIV Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2013 6:30 p.m.

    Why does the article assume that the McDonalds employee is the one with the second job, and not a spouse or family member? Both my wife and I work.

    Can fault McDonalds for being realistic about a minimum wage job. You're not going to live a very comfortable life on just $8 an hour.