Comments about ‘BYU football: Will BYU's 2013 schedule be the toughest in school history?’

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Published: Monday, July 15 2013 6:15 p.m. MDT

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truecoug1
Provo, UT

So, in conclusion, BYU and Utah have been remarkably similar during the BCS era. BYU has had more double-digit win seasons and has been ranked more than Utah at the end of the season, while Utah has a slightly better overall record (which can be explained by the Utes' weaker average SOS, right AZUTE?), the edge in the rivalry, and the 2 BCS bowl wins.

Both teams have the same number of bowl appearances and conference championships, while Utah has the edge against BCS foes.

It's also interesting to note that BYU's average SOS pre-Independence was a 59, and Utah's pre-PAC was a 69. BYU's record against BCS foes during that time was 16-19. Utah's was 21-12.

The edge during the BCS era goes to Utah on account of the BCS wins (although I'm not seeing the "domination of BYU", nor the "can't even be remotely compared" stuff U were talking about). However, the modern era (including the BCS) goes to BYU...and that's not even remotely debatable.

Oh, and BYU also takes the SOS trophy, which I know is extremely important to U, AZUTE :)

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

Here's that list of the stats for both teams during the Modern Era, including the BCS (1973-present):

BYU:

Record: 350-149-3
Conference Championships: 22
Bowl Game Appearances: 31
Total final rankings (AP or UPI/Coaches): 18
Double-digit win seasons: 16
Losing seasons: 4
National Championships: 1
BCS Bowls: 0
Rivalry: 25-15

Utah:

Record: 263-204
Conference Championships: 5
Bowl Game Appearances: 15
Total final rankings (AP or UPI/Coaches): 6
Double-digit win seasons: 6
Losing seasons: 13
National Championships: 0
BCS Bowls: 2
Rivalry: 15-25

That's not even remotely debatable.

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@Uteology "That game wasn't any bigger than Application State a D2 program going on the road upsetting #5 Michigan.

You're a legacy program, with a national brand? That's what you tell us, right?

Do some research, please let us know if they had airport celebrations for a 1-0 "Quest"."

First, I'm not sure what Appalachian St against Michigan has to do with BYU against Oklahoma. The ASU/Michigan game became big because an FCS school won. The BYU/OU game was hyped as a huge game between two top 25 programs, and the first ever college football game played in Jerryworld. OU was ranked #3 and had the preseason Heisman favorite. BYU came in as the underdog from the MWC, but preseason ranked #23 with BCS aspirations.

It was a great game, and was hyped as such. So I'm not sure why a legacy program with a national brand isn't allowed to celebrate a big win over another legacy program with a national brand. It happened last year between A&M and Alabama.

continued

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@Uteology continued

Here's a quote from the article regarding Texas A&M beating Alabama: "On Saturday afternoon, Texas A&M beat Alabama 29-24 in Tuscaloosa. On Saturday evening, thousands of fans lined the streets to welcome the Aggies back to College Station." From the USA Today article titled "Massive crowd greets Texas A&M after huge upset".

So...what's your point exactly? If you're a marquee program with a national brand, you're no longer allowed to celebrate beating another marquee team with a national brand??

(roll my eyes) Please. Maybe U should try to come up with some better smack.

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@Uteology "What's your point that BYU is as irrelevant as Duke, Minnesota, and Colorado in the BCS era?"

No, my point is that to be considered a prestigious program, U have to look at the whole picture, and not just a couple of successful years here and there.

BYU was ranked higher than Utah, TCU, and BSU, all of whom have been to BCS bowls and had undefeated seasons during the BCS era.

Unfortunately for Ute, Horned Frog, and Bronco fans, there was over 100 years of college football that happened before the BCS that was taken into account.

U are a small-time program whose legacy is built on 2 BCS bowl wins and 8 of 11 against BYU.

I've already shown what BYU's legacy was built on.

Which one does ESPN value more?

Maybe U can quote something from CollegeFootballCafeteria to back up your position, though :)

Go Cougars!

AggieVoice
Logan, UT

I want to hear what BYU fans think about the 2014 schedule...

Home- Virginia, Houston, Utah State, Nevada, Southern Miss, UNLV
Away- UCONN, Texas, UCF, Boise, Middle Tennessee (1 more to schedule)

The only games I see BYU fans getting excited about (besides Texas) are the Mountain West games (Utah State, Boise, and Nevada). Doesn't seem any better than a normal Mountain West schedule, they just don't have a championship to fight for.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

truecoug1--

"So has Utah been better during the BCS era? Absolutely. Have they dominated BYU during this era so that it's not even comparable?

Nope."

Lol Again, too easy.

Not only has The U dominated head-to-head [1/2 of 2-Star byu's wins came during the 1st 4 years of this current BCS Era, 3-8 ever since], they've won by an avg of 13.67 and lost by an avg of 4, including 3 epic blow-outs of 52-21/48-24/54-10 against never getting beat by more than 7.

The U has had winning streaks of 4 and 3, whereas 2-Star byu has had 2 winning streaks of 2.

The U has gone undefeated twice, something 2-Star byu has accomplished only once during my lifetime and that was against the 3rd weakest SOS in the nation, including finishing ranked in the Top-4 on both occasions [4/2, respectively]. 2 losses is the closest 2-Star byu has ever come to it.

Going to 2 BCS Bowl Games [while winning both in utterly dominating fashion], something which 2-Star byu can only fantasize about ever accomplishing once.

Etc., Etc., Etc., Etc.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

@ truecoug1

In conclusion, I stand by my original comment 100%. The U's domination of 2-Star byu during this current BCS Era is not even remotely comparable! :)

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

truecoug1--

"Oh, and BYU also takes the SOS trophy, which I know is extremely important to U, AZUTE :)"

Lol You make it so entirely easy on me! :)

When pointing to my own personal references to SOS, please only state what I've actually done. If you go back and carefully review when it is I actually do in fact reference SOS, you'll readily notice that I only do so when it's 100% relevant.

A perfect example of when I actually do in fact reference SOS is when 2-Star byu fan "touts" 2-Star byu's record as having been better than The U's each of the last 2 years. My automatic response is to immediately point to the SOS disparity [90 vs 49 and 63 vs 41], in addition to pointing to the fact that The U won both head-to-head match-ups.

Please go back and look at each and every instance of me referencing SOS and report back as to precisely when/why I in fact referenced SOS. I don't just simply reference SOS for the heck of it! Lol :)

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@AZUTE1 "Not only has The U dominated head-to-head [1/2 of 2-Star byu's wins came during the 1st 4 years of this current BCS Era, 3-8 ever since]"

So? Your initial argument was that Utah had dominated BYU during the BCS ers so that it wasn't even remotely comparable. I showed that that wasn't the case.

Utah is up 9-6 head-to-head during the BCS era because of the 3 game winning streak that the Utes are on. 2 of those 3 wins were extremely close and came about in incredibly "flukey" fashion (shanked punt that bounced off of a BYU gunner and was recovered by Utah, Bradley's knee being down in 2010, botched snap that Alisa couldn't recover that was returned for a TD by Utah in 2012).

That's not exactly "dominating".

I already gave Utah credit for the 2 BCS wins, so I'm not sure what your point is there.

Overall, I simply showed that Utah's accomplishments and BYU's accomplishments are remarkably similar during the BCS era. The only significant difference are the 2 BCS wins, which is why I said that Utah had been better than BYU during the BCS era.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

truecoug1--

"Modern Era of College Football: 1973-1997"

I've personally seen, at minimum, a handful of starting points for what's considered to be the starting point for "The Modern Era".

Based upon this fact, selecting 1973 is therefore 100% arbitrary and in no way authoritative, no more authoritative than any of the others.

Furthermore, going back beyond the beginning of this current BCS Era is 100% irrelevant to my original comment, thus has zero bearing on it. Not unlike pointing to my references to SOS, as I've only ever referenced SOS when it was 100% relevant [i.e., when a 2-Star byu fan claims they were better the past 2 years based on their record, not to mention The U won both meeting, as well]. :)

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@AZUTE1 "If you go back and carefully review when it is I actually do in fact reference SOS, you'll readily notice that I only do so when it's 100% relevant."

Lol, seriously? Here's what U said this morning: ""BYU's 1979 to 1985 Dynasty included SIX 11+ win seasons, FIVE Top 12 finishes, TWO Top 7 finishes, 7 conference championships, a consensus National Championship, and an overall record of 77-12 (87%)."

What was 2-Star byu's SOS during each of these seasons?"

How on earth is SOS relevant to what BYU accomplished during their dynasty, according to Athlon? Especially since Utah's SOS was as bad, if not worse, than BYU's and they did nothing during that same time period?

U have also posted several comments in the "Getting to 10" article about how Phil Steele's PRESEASON SOS ranking has Utah's at #12 and BYU's at #49, as if that is somehow a great accomplishment, lol.

I figured U would then appreciate the fact that BYU has an higher average SOS than Utah during the BCS era and therefore wins the SOS trophy :)

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@AZUTE1" "A perfect example of when I actually do in fact reference SOS is when 2-Star byu fan "touts" 2-Star byu's record as having been better than The U's each of the last 2 years."

And that is also what I did when I stated that the disparity between Utah's and BYU's overall record during the BCS era can be explained away by the disparity between their SOS, since BYU's is higher. Again, according to your logic.

So again, nothing that U have said has shown me that Utah and BYU don't even remotely compare to each other during the BCS era. Utah has the slight advantage in head-to-head and has the 2 BCS wins. BYU has had more double-digit win seasons, and has been ranked more at the end of the season than Utah has.

But because of the 2 BCS wins, the edge goes to Utah.

Nothing dominant about it, however. And it definitely remotely compares.

The modern era for both football teams (1973-present) doesn't even come close to remotely comparing.

BYU is the big dog. Utah is small-time.

Enjoy it.

Go Cougars!

Bleed Crimson
Sandy, Utah

@ truecoug1

"Utah is up 9-6 head-to-head during the BCS era because of the 3 game winning streak that the Utes are on. 2 of those 3 wins were extremely close and came about in incredibly "flukey" fashion (shanked punt that bounced off of a BYU gunner and was recovered by Utah, Bradley's knee being down in 2010, botched snap that Alisa couldn't recover that was returned for a TD by Utah in 2012)"

You forgot to account for BYU's "fluke plays" that won 3 of their games against Utah. (Beck to Harline in 2006, A blown coverage on 4th and a mile in 2007, and another blown coverage in OT in 2009). BYU had it's share of "fluke plays". But you don't see Utah fans Y'ning about them. Get over it! Turnovers, missed field goals, blown coverage, botched snaps, muffed punts, ect. Are all apart of football. Stuff like that happens, that's why you play the game. Enough with the excuses!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@BleedCrimson

How many TD catches did Johnny Harline have in 2006? How many TD passes did John Beck have in 2006? How many receptions and receiving yards did Austin Collie have in 2007? How many passing yards did Max Hall have in 2007? How is zipping a ball through two defenders and putting it right on the money to Andrew George a flukey play ,or "blown" coverage?

Now, tell me how many times did Utah shank a punt in 2010 that bounced off of the opponents' gunner that they recovered (my guess is one)? How many times did BYU have a botched snap in 2012 that was returned for a TD by their opponent (again, my guess is one)?

Obviously crazy stuff happens in football. That's part of what makes the game great. But they're still flukes.

Johnny Harline and John Beck practiced a ton to arrive at that moment. Likewise with Max Hall and Collie, and Hall and George.

Tell me, did Utah practice shanking punts? What did Utah do to make BYU's center botch the snap, and make the ball take a bad bounce when Alisa went to scoop it up?

U won 2 games from flukes.

truecoug1
Provo, UT

BTW, it's interesting that in Utah's best era that included 4 of their best seasons ever ('03, '04, '08, '09) and in an era that included 3 of BYU's worst seasons in the last 45 years ('02, '03, '04), Utah has only managed 3 more head-to-head wins than BYU, couldn't win more conference championships than BYU, couldn't finished the season ranked more than BYU, and has only won a couple of more games than BYU has (and that can be explained away by their overall weaker SOS).

Hats off to the Utes for winning 2 BCS bowls, a great accomplishment. But I'm just not seeing the domination that Ute fans talk about during this era.

And again, the fact that the most important thing to Ute fans is "3 in a row, 8 of 11" tells me all I need to know about the Ute program.

Go Cougars!

truecoug1
Provo, UT

@AZUTE1 "I've personally seen, at minimum, a handful of starting points for what's considered to be the starting point for "The Modern Era"."

True, there is some debate about it. 1973 is when the NCAA divided schools into three divisions. They further divided the schools into 1A and 1AA starting in 1978, so it could have started then.

Or U can go into the 80's, when television exposure exploded onto the scene.

I chose 1973 since it is the beginning of what college football most closely resembles today. though 1978 also would have been a good measurement.

Any way U choose to look at it, however, BYU still comes out ahead of the Utes in wins, conference championships, end-of-season rankings, head-to-head matchups, national championships, etc.

And it's not even close.

Meantime, the BCS era (an era in which U would have us believe that Utah has thoroughly dominated BYU) has shown both teams to be pretty even. Utah has been the better team on account of the 2 BCS wins and the 3-game edge in the rivalry.

But, for being the best era in Utah football, it certainly hasn't been dominant.

Go Cougars!

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