What it all seems to come down to is that there is an infinite number of
combinations and permutations of meanings that can be attributed to all this
stuff, let alone the errors of dozens of translations to and from obscure and
dead languages, human error, lost or omitted portions of the texts, and so on.
Then there is discussion of what is taken in context, what is to be literally
interpreted, and so on, and you end up with exactly what we have today. A text
that can be lawyered to mean exactly what we want it to, with any contradictory
portions ignored entirely. Add to this the users claim to unchallengeable
infallibility and you have the poison that is religion today.
So, according to Hutterite, religion is poison. What I sense in the invective
that comes from some of the non-religionist commentators is much worse. They
have every right to ignore religion if they choose. But they seem to be out to
kill it altogether.As far as I can see, Hutterite's arguments leave
the door wide open for the need of prophets and continued revelation--which the
LDS Church teaches and all others reject.
Here's a revision to an earlier comment that was first approved and posted,
then denied and removed. Hopefully, this one is more acceptable:Critics of Dr. Peterson use pedantic logic to try to give him comeuppance. But
they don't hold a candle to him in either logic or intellect. Until they
can be a little less narrow-minded in their commentary, their arguments are
This is what I understand from the article: Another evidence of the
truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the
references in the scriptures (regardless of translation) to the temple.The "esoteric" in Mormonism is the "inner sanctuary" of the
temple, a place that will become increasingly important to us as the world
becomes more wicked.It occurs to me that the Holy Ghost is more
important to an understanding of the scriptures than knowledge of ancient
languages, but an understanding of ancient languages gives clarity and support
to the witness of the Holy Ghost.
Hamblin and Peterson read far too much into the etymology of words than is
warranted.They admit: "esōteros" is a rare term meaning
"the inner chamber of the temple, that is, the Holy of Holies" OR
"the inner court of the temple. Do they tell you that there are multiple
"veils" in the Temple?Westcott appealed to the
Septuagint's use of "katapetasma" to translate "paroketh,"
but admits that the distinction between paroketh/katapetasma and mosak/kalumma
"is not strictly preserved in the LXX [Septuagint]."In fact,
the Septuagint's use of katapetasma and kalumma within the Pentateuch
reveals that katapetasma is the favorite for all three of the sanctuary's
veils, as illustrated very well in Exodus 37:3, 5, and 16 (Septuagint only):Verse 3 paroketh is used for the inner veil and the Septuagint renders
it katapetasma; Verse 5 uses masak for the veil between the holy
place and the court and it is rendered katapetasma;Verse 16 masak is
used for the courtyard veil and is translated with katapetasma.Thus,
within one chapter, katapetasma is used for all three sanctuary veils.This suggests Hamblin and Peterson are wrong.
Moreover, Judaism had excluded non-Jews from the inner courts of the Temple (not
just the Holy of Holies), as well as from private (familial) but still Temple
ceremonies such as the Passover Seder. Even Greek and Roman Temples had a
"pronaos" (anticum) - the inner area of the portico of the Temple, as
contrasted against a "epinaos" (posticum).Similarly, among
early Christians the Eucharist was also a private/secret meal only for
"family" (insiders). This is because, at least after Nero, but certainly
before as well, the illegality if not unacceptability of Christianity made it
thoroughly secret (esoteric) - to speak or write openly was not only against the
law and could cost one his life, but it could cost one friends and social
standing as well, even among fellow Christians among whom "the
mysteries" were to be kept carefully guarded lest they be discovered and
mocked.Among ancient Christian esoteric traditions, doctrines
(dogmata) and proclamations (kerugmata) were distinguished: the former are
written teachings and the latter are "secretly transmitted from the
apostolic tradition" (largely verbally).
G L W8,"....As far as I can see, Hutterite's arguments
leave the door wide open for the need of prophets and continued
revelation--which the LDS Church teaches and all others reject...."______________________________I need continued revelation. I read
books. In them, I've received many revelations that are altogether
different from the Joseph Smith variety.
Craig Clark, the books you read--do they represent God's continued revealed
word to current prophets, or are they the theories of men? We're talking
two different types of revelation here. The door is still open.
G L W S, What is one mans meat is another mans poison.
RE: Jeff,” Another evidence of the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints is the references in the scriptures”.Mormon encyclopedia,“the word Sacrament never occurs in the
Bible”? Sacrament occurs in the Latin Vulgate Eph 1:9,
“That he might make known unto us the mystery(sacramentum)…. Also in
Eph 3:9, Col 1:27,1Tim 3:16, Rev 1:20; 17:7.late 12c., from Old
French sacrament (12c.), from Latin sacramentum "a consecrating," from
sacrare "to consecrate" (see sacred); a Church Latin translation of
Greek mysterion "mystery."As Latin replaced Greek, the
Biblical writers had this in mind when we approach baptism and the Lord’s
supper, sacrament(mystery)is a visible sign of invisible grace.
It all makes one wonder what the cave man was wondering about all this esoteric
and exoteric jumbo before man written scriptures were invented to cause angst
for his worries. It is clever commerce how the industry of religion has
developed a profitable enterprise of exploitation from the invention of fear and
pie in the sky multi-level marketing.
@Jeff – “The "esoteric" in Mormonism is the "inner
sanctuary" of the temple”The “esoteric” in
most traditions is the inner sanctuary or “temple” that is found
inside of us. And the deeper one goes the esoteric looks more and more the same
across all traditions.
skeptic,"It all makes one wonder what the cave man was wondering
about all this esoteric and exoteric jumbo before man written scriptures were
invented to cause angst for his worries..."______________________________I imagine that the primeval forest
was a font of both wonder and terror about the unknown. Imagination without
restraint was the precursor to what would come to be regarded as knowledge. It
was probably inevitable that ‘knowledge’ would be a basis for power,
hence something to be hoarded, controlled, and dispensed by the strong to
consolidate their hold on power and authority.
@JeffTemple City, CAThe "esoteric" in Mormonism is the
"inner sanctuary" of the temple, a place that will become increasingly
important to us as the world becomes more wicked.=======I somewhat disagree.Look up the word "esoteric".You
can have things hidden plain sight, When only those who have "eyes to
see, and ears to hear" fully recognize and understand something's true
intended meaning.Bible stories are nice "stories" for
children, put the true meaning therein is the allegory, or metaphor as it
is applied to each of us.Jesus told a lot of cute stories about
"sheep" and shepherds, Good Samaritans, and such -- but what
he really told us was deeper things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.The Temple is just a structure, and the esoteric messages taght therein
go far, Far, FAR beyond the re-telling of the story of creation and Adam and Eve
and the Garden of Eden...Figurative, as far as the man and the woman