I think most BYU fans would rather be in a big conference than be an
independent. Personally, I like independence and the fun and intrigue of playing
a national schedule, and being able to see EVERY game!As for big
bowls, well the conference tie-ins lock up some of them. But the two playoff
bowls will be (maybe) based on merit. So just as Washington has to win to get
into the Rose Bowl, BYU has to win to get into a big bowl. Now, at least, if BYU
goes 12-0, they'll get a bid. Otherwise, they'll play in the lesser
bowls, just like the PAC12 teams do.As for our Utah friends, you
sound silly dissing BYU's record when you can't beat anybody in the
PAC-12 conference of champions. And unless you win it all, you get the same
bowls BYU plays in. You sound like "My daddy is richer than yours and my
mommy is prettier, too."Grow up.
@Big 12 Bob & DavidFor the record BYU's all time record
against the premier football teams in the Big 12 are as follows:Texas (2-1)Oklahoma (2-0)That is an 80% winning
percentage.I agree BYU fans usually overestimate the reality of the
teams potential. On the other had both of you have underestimated them just as
much. Ole Miss and "A" team while BYU is a "B" team? One of
our weakest teams two years ago beat them on the road with no offense.
We can debate all day who is doing a better job of recuriting and still not have
a conceret answer. But you can listen to the recurits themselves: Kahlil Bell
from Georgia said that seeing BYU on ESPN got him excited about coming here.
I'm sure there are other players in every sport that think the same way.
So we don't have the strongest schedule, who cares, play the game good and
winning speaks for itself. ESPN is happy, Fans are happy, School is happy and
most important the Players are happy. That's what counts!!! Utah is
doing their thing and best to them, let's move on BYU, only the level of
play will determine who has the better program. As for strength of schedule,
teams are always changing and some mid tier teams will become top level and some
top teams will move down the ladder. It will always change and we will never be
a ND, USC, Texas, FL, OU etc. because of the type of school we are, so quite
trying!!! Enjoy the moment!!!!!!
@2ferSo what if they are 2-1, they are coming to Provo to play. I
think with time there will be less 2-1's but for now this is what needs to
be done with a select few schools. That isn't going to happen with anything
other than the very top programs in the country anyway and as we can see BYU is
scheduling the very top programs.As for the pac12, I prefer
independence and I've said it many times. I want to see how it goes and
thus far it is going well. If in the future we cease seeing the steady
improvement we have been seeing so far and it appears BYU is stagnating, then
conference membership may be something I change my opinion about, but for now
this is excellent for me as a fan. I'm going to get to go to a lot of great
place to see games over the next few years and it is exciting. As
for the Holy War, well all you said is what I said, there are some benefits but
they have diminished and they are limited.
The scheduling is nice, but now we have to win these games vs. quality
competition. Our conspicuous absence from any BCS bowls EVER is telling of the
progress of our program.
@ DH"usc, notre dame, texas, wisconsin, are all going to play in
Provo."USC, ND, and Texas are 2-for-1's. Wisconsin and ND
haven't scheduled return dates (as far as I know).I agree there
are benefits to playing the Holy War, but those benefits have been diminished
since the two schools left the MWC. All that is really left to play for is
pride and maybe to sway an in-state recruit or two. I think it really is a
shame that CU was taken instead of BYU. I can't even imagine how intense
the game would be...
SLC BYU FAN,It is seriously so awesome that you know how mediocre of
a coach Matt Wells is before the season starts. I envy people like you that
have such amazing powers of fortune telling. Being a BYU fan must be something
@2ferusc, notre dame, texas, wisconsin, are all going to play in
Provo. Funny you only list the 2 that aren't, as of yet.As for
BYU benefiting from playing utah, well there are pluses and minuses to it and it
depends on when the game is played. If utah is allowed by their pac12 bosses to
play BYU in November then BYU benefits, if it is in September then utah offers
BYU almost zero benefits as BYU can easily schedule vastly superior, and much
more interesting, programs than utah in September. Frankly as the last few
months have shown us BYU can schedule vastly superior and much more interesting
programs than utah in November since we have now seen Notre Dame, Wisconsin,
USC, and it appears Stanford, are all scheduling BYU in November. I can tell you
I would much rather see BYU play those programs than play utah.The
"benefits" of playing utah are there is a great deal of instate
interest, we know ESPN will be all over it, and it is simple tradition. So there
are benefits but I think we all realize they aren't as "beneficial"
as many once thought.
@ BigCougarYou don't think playing Utah benefits BYU? You
understand that is true tenfold for the Utes, right? Just remember that it
wasn't Utah fans who were whining when the two-year hiatus in the series
was announced.It's great that BYU is playing teams like Texas,
Nebraska, etc... However I'm not so sure it adds prestige. Wyoming got a
2-for-1 from Texas, and any low level mid-major or FCS team can get a one and
done with power teams, which is what BYU has with Michigan and Nebraska. If BYU
was getting these teams to play home-home series or 2-for-1's in Provo,
then yes it would add prestige. But that doesn't seem to be the case right
@ThidderUtah State can make a high-$$$-6 figure by playing BYU in
Provo every year, or even Utah in SLC for that matter. Given the Aggies are the
ca$h poorest program in the MWC going in, Tom Holmoe can make this demand of
Scott Barnes and probably get it. BYU takes in at least 3x the immediate gate
revenue Utah State can for hosting that game. The odds of Utah State hosting
Utah or BYU in Logan beyond this year have further diminished. With Gary
Andersen gone, the Aggies will struggle when they realize Matt Wells is the same
mediocre coach Brent Guy, Mick Denehy, Chuck Shelton, Chris Pella or Dave
Arslanian was. Get out the oil for the revolving door!
BYU became a relevant enough program during the LaVell Edwards era to try
this...given the conference conflicts for taking them (Cal & Stanford in the
Pac-12 dislikng the post-graduate academic comitment of BYU moving forward), as
well as the internal conflicts within BYU governance for taking them (the
feeling that BYU both academically & athletically should not exceed the
relevance of Utah State as well as supporting the smaller WCC religious
schools), hence the Big 12 fiasco.Given Notre Dame has made the
decision to make an unusual comitment to the ACC over the past year, this could
be the crystal ball on the liklihood of hwere BYU will land eventually. I think
BYU administrators will do what they can to avoid any similar deals to return to
the MWC, even though there is now immense polictical preassure on BYU to do so
internally with USU now in that league.
"Independance has clearly lifted BYU to a new level of football. The
recruiting is getting better"-Hobbes-Please
don't let facts get in the way of your bubble delusion. Every recruiting
services shows bYu flat or declining since the move to indi.If your
trying to sell your typical 1-2 star, 68th rank recruit classes as
"better" now because bYu is "independent" you've come to
the right place....cougarboard might work as well.
Glad to see the Aggies were not included in BYU's great plans. After many
years of bowing to that favored school, the Aggies do not need to accommodate
the BYU any longer. No more 2-1 arrangement. If BYU wants to play the Aggies,
the invitation is always open to play in Logan.
@GoRedYou said:"BYU, on the other hand, is in a continual
fight to be deemed relevant and important".Playing on ESPN (The
Biggest Brand in Sports) 9 or 10 or 11 times a year, should answer that question
for you, try to keep up. Where is the relevance of the U's
Football and Basketball programs?Seriously?The U, in just 2
short years, has managed to embed themselves as their Conference Cellar
Dweller.Wallowing in obscurity at the bottom of the heap.Utah
is not being picked 10 times a year to play on any Major Network. Major
programs play on the Major Networks, because, they are invited.Utah and
other bottom tier programs don't, because they're not...Your Mask of False Bravado has been lifted, Ute-fan.And the Patch, is
worn out.U have become the Washington Generals of the Pac.You said:"Playing on ESPN is no big deal?"Really?
Go and ask USC, UCLA or Stanford or any other prominent Pac program, if
playing on ESPN, on any day, is a big deal. Because they all do.
Still a little disappointed that there aren't consistent games with Army
and Navy. Thought those would have been the easiest ones to get scheduled
No argument that the Y improved their schedule this year and has some
'name' opponents in the future. However, they did a good job breaking
up the season and avoiding difficult back to back situations. For example, a
bye between Texas and Utah, a bye between BSU and WI, and a game against Idaho
St (almost a bye) before playing ND.To a couple of posters that felt
the need to compare schedules, most Utah fans couldn't care less who BYU
schedules. I, for one, applaud them on adding a handful of good games this
year. Next step will be to put together a string of games like ND has (Mi,
Purdue, Mi St, OK, and ASU on consecutive weeks). Win 8 or more games with that
schedule and you can make legitimate claims about having a good team.
goredNice try but fail. BYU is relevant. Went bowling... U
didn't.However most state residents will remember the fact that
the Utes didn't bowl as compared to who BYU played in their bowl game. But
most will recall that BYU won their bowl game. That's a nice
thing to be remembered for, huh?
@Gored"BYU, on the other hand, is in a continual fight to be deemed
relevant and important."Did you read the article?! Even a ute
homer like Brad Rock gets it. Traditional football powers like USC, Notre Dame,
Texas, Nebraska, Michigan, etc are all lining up to play BYU as are a bunch of
newer football powers like Wisconsin, Boise St, West Virginia, Stanford, etc. It
appears the only "continual fight" is in trying to slow down the on-rush
of high caliber opponents trying to get games with BYU. If it
continues to escalate like it is we might have to start doing 2 for 1's
with basement-dwelling BCS teams like Utah and her sister schools Utah State and
Weber St to make sure there's room on the schedule for an Ohio St or an
Alabama or Florida type opponent.
Both BYU and Utah are like the ugly guys that somehow got hot girls to go to the
prom with them. Until they start winning games against these new "hot"
opponents, they'll still be the ugly guys. :)
Big Cougar,Can I have a little of what you are taking because you
are liven the pipe dream. No PAC 12 school would ever trade places with BYU.
It is amazing that once again BYU will be the pre-season national champion. I
wonder how many national championships BYU will win in a row with the worlds
hardest schedule. lol
little cougar, "Utah is desperate for exposure...and a game with
BYU means they'll play on ESPN."Are you serious? I think
you've got it twisted around. Utah no longer has to fight for the scraps
that being in a non-BCS conference demanded. The competition is exponentially
harder, but the challenge is one that every true Utah fan embraces. And being a
part of the PAC 12 brings with it enough exposure.BYU, on the other
hand, is in a continual fight to be deemed relevant and important. And they
have historically struggled against good teams, year in and year out, which
doesn't help their cause. Playing on one of the ESPN channels in and of
itself is no big deal, especially when many of those games are on odd days and
at inconvenient times.
The last few years BYU's football schedules have been much more interesting
and fun than anytime during their stays in the WAC or MWC. And I have to believe
that the WCC is more competitive for basketball than the MWC was. I could care
less if Ute fans think their situation is better . . . maybe it is; maybe it
isn't. Who cares? I only watch Utah when they play the Y anyway.
Those who poo-poo BYU's schedule as not being as tough as BCS schools are
making the wrong comparison. The choice for BYU was to stay in the MWC and play
New Mexico, Wyoming, and the rest of the lousy teams in the conference, and get
no exposure, and no money. Today, they get to schedule teams like Texas,
Wisconsin, Stanford, USC, etc. Sure, they have some easy filler games, and some
medium strength good schools like Middle Tennessee State, but when all is said
and done, there is no comparison between what they would have had with the MWC,
and what opportunities they now have as an independent. This isn't about
Utah's schedule vs. BYU's schedule. It is about playing in the MWC
vs. getting to play who and where they now get to play, making the money they
now get to make,and getting the exposure they now get. It is a no brainer. For
BYU, this was a winner decision.
"Check it out: USC, Notre Dame, Wisconsin, Utah — and those are just
some November opponents.Meanwhile, Nebraska, Virginia, Texas,
Michigan, Georgia Tech and West Virginia are earlier-season BYU games. Stanford
is apparently planning a series with the Cougars, too, though dates
haven’t been set.How did the Cougars work this out?"Lol! Brad Rock is such a ute homer it's ridiculous. He includes
Utah in that list of big name opponents. That's very funny. BYU only plays
Utah because they have to in order to please the in-state fanbase. It
doesn't add anything to their stature or benefit them otherwise to play
Utah. It's about the same as playing Utah State, BYU does it
because they sort of have to, kind of like when you were younger and your Mom
made you play with your little brother and little sister or you'd get in
trouble.Now, playing traditional football powers like Texas, Notre
Dame, USC, Nebraska, etc adds prestige and is a selling point for potential
recruits, etc. That adds some value to the program and benefits BYU.
"But the fact BYU has added Utah to its 2017 and 2018 schedules is the
latest indication something is working."Wrong-again Rock. All
that means is Utah is desperate to get any national exposure they can and they
know a game with BYU means that's at one game for sure they'll get on
ESPN and not some obscure regional sub-channel on someone's satellite dish.
My Perspective...Let it be known...your statement is just that, your
Big 12 Bob,You made my point. BYU isn't a sought-after
opponent because they are tough enough to beat the big conference programs. In
fact, recent history (past 10 years) has consistently revealed that when you pit
BYU against a top 25 program, BYU is probably going to lose. But because BYU
can beat the average team, they win 10 games each year, making them look good in
the win percentage column.Fans who believe that these successful
agreements between BYU vs recognized programs means that BYU football is great
are simply living on hope. But that's what fans do.I'm a
BYU fan, but have grown tired of the annual pre-season marketing that comes out
of BYU. I understand that you have to hype it up to increase ticket sales. I
hate to admit this, but I actually like Utah's method--a quieter approach
to the preseason and let the wins speak for themselves (that was true in the
MWC--now that they are in the PAC they struggle to reach .500).I
love chearing for the Cougs. I hope they start winning the big games.
mindgames"It was one thing to be the big fish in the WAC and MWC
conferences, but to be an independent along side of Notre Dame was going to be a
tremendous step." This might be news to you but even ND has seen the
futility (going forward) of full independence. CougarColby"I can only imagine U fans disgust right now. BYU is starting to reap the
benefits of being independent and it will only continue as they play more and
more high profile games on ESPN against quality opponents. This is nearly the
same route Boise took, and look at where they are currently."Two
Comments1) Starting to reap the benefits...look at byu's 2014
schedule. Futher, the few good teams announced today are spread over 10 years
(2 for 1 and 1 off's) 2) Look where Boise is currently...they
ditched ESPN and went to the MWC! Good luck with independence, from
my point of view you guys are being sold a bill of goods and it just keeps on
Keep up the tradition of losing to Top 25 programs and scheduling will improve
even more. You've got to win these games to be taken seriously by anyone
outside the bubble. "Recruiting has improved sice becoming
This is great news. This information has been developing and becoming more
obvious and this article does a nice job of summarizing what most knew was the
reality, i.e. that BYU would need some time to develop things but that they felt
that would happen eventually. That is exactly what Holmoe said early on.Enough of the silly bickering and sizing of one another up. BYU having
a better schedule and games only makes for better football watching and I
certainly wish them luck, except on that ONE day of course!Now all
BYU has to do is figure out how to win the games. Although it can be argued
that regardless of a win or not, the 'exposure' is good for the
program. I would argue against that generally and say that repeated showings on
ESPN that involve losing aren't good for recruiting and for the program.
You've got to win some of those big games. The Utes are learning that the
hard way and need to start doing the same.But again, this is nice
news and we should all be happy for BYU. Enough of the negativity - it's
BYU would be in trouble if it weren't for the ESPN agreement, and I
don't see ESPN cancelling anything after the 8 year contract ends.BYU needs to start winning some of these big games in order to keep interest
in the program high.Big schools will continue to want BYU as
they'll provide a valid test and adding to SOS no matter the time of year.
ESPN will put the bigger games in the spotlight which will continue to entice
big schools to play BYU.As for the road draw, BYU fans need to step
up. I drove from Utah to the Cotton Bowl in '97 and we had a measley 10k
fans. It was a sea of Kansas State purple in the stadium; if BYU wants to get
noticed, especially for the bigger bowl games, we've GOT to travel better.
While BYU has an established fan base nationally it's still a problem to
convince frugal BYU fans to shell out $50+ for a single ticket (and MUCH more at
Actually he may have a good point here...with ESPN on the table, some teams from
bigger conferences might think that scheduling a late season game against BYU
might help them look good because they get to play on ESPN near the end of the
season, to try and get publicity/exposure before the bowl stuff is decided.
Interesting...so it's like BYU's independence (and ESPN contract)
helps them out a bit as well.
David -- "Are they wanting to schedule BYU because they see it as a
recognized program that draws big crowds, but doesn't win many games
against opponents in the top 10 or top 20?"Big-name schools use
the A-B-C formula for out of conference. For example, Texas opens with their C
game (New Mexico State), then B game (BYU), then the A game against Ole Miss out
of the SEC.The answer is "doesn't win many games against
opponents in the top 10 or top 20". Those big-name schools are already
going to be on TV, and they're already going to be sold out. BYU fan
following is nice, but of no matter to them. Texas' 2012 home game vs
Wyoming had a bigger crowd than the 2011 game vs BYU."What would
happen if BYU was winning 60% of their games against top 25"You'd
see more reluctance to play BYU like many avoid BSU today. BYU has a nice role
as a mid-major stepping stone for other teams to get to the NC. They don't
want to upset that gravy train. Its good exposure.
Looks like the hard work by BYU´s athletics department is paying off.
Scheduling as an independent has to be a beast of a job. Utah has helped out
their little brother by not requiring a Home-Away-Home like USC did. And the
ESPN draw is critical for the kewgs to draw attention from the mid to lower
teams in the power conferences. One thing that this article
conveniently left out is in what seasons these games were scheduled. Some as far
away as 2023. BYU will still have a bunch of Idahos and NM States in November
for the next 5 or 6 years. As the article points out, with a low
SOS, cougars need to go undefeated like the Utes did in 2004 and 2008 to even be
considered for a BCS Bowl or playoff game, and then pray that they are the only
undefeated team at regular season´s end.
@ hobbesI think it's a stretch to claim that BYU's
recruiting is getting stronger. If anything, BYU recruiting is about the same
as it was the past few years before independence.@ CougarColbyThere is not a single Utah fan who would switch places with BYU. Not
one. Utah landed in a much more prestigious, lucrative, and secure spot. BYU
has a great schedule this year, but go check out what is coming down the pipe in
2014. It's not great.
One thing that is working in the favor of BYU is the desire in some leagues to
completely eliminate playing FCS level (Weber State, Idaho State etc...) level
opponents. If the Pac-12 does this as has the Big Ten, then they'll
realize they must give BYU those post September waivers as they already do Notre
I can only imagine U fans disgust right now. BYU is starting to reap the
benefits of being independent and it will only continue as they play more and
more high profile games on ESPN against quality opponents. This is nearly the
same route Boise took, and look at where they are currently. BYU has a much
bigger brand, better recruiting, better facilities, more money, and more
exposure. To think BYU was going to strike it big in the first 1-5 years of
independence is/was crazy. But give it some time. The recruits will see BYU
playing fantastic games on National TV and as long as BYU can win 2-3 of those
big games a year, things will start looking up. A few more years down the road
though, they will have to starting winning 3-4 to keep the momentum going. BYU
has placed itself in a fantastic position, it is just up to the coaches and team
to take full advantage of it! U fans, I know you wish you were
independent, but get over it. You have nothing more than a (small) regional fan
base. Hope you make a bowl this year!
Guys...people keep saying this BYU schedule is so tough. I don't get it.
Look at every Top 20 team, especially in BCS conferences and they line up
harder. We just aren't playing easy wins every game.Whose
schedule is tougher Utah or BYU? Stanford, Oregon, etc I say Utah by far.
Virginia, GT, Houston etc aren't any good.I like the Cougs, but
people get a clue. It's hard because we aren't playing Wyoming and
Idaho etc. let's play some real football and be a Top 10 team like every
Cougar fan thinks the team is!
"Tittle said BYU draws 5,000-6000 supporters at almost any road venue
..." I think he's underestimating our draw. Sure, the numbers are
down when we play in Las Cruces for New Mexico State, but practically every
other venue sees way more Cougar fans. When we played UCLA in Pasadena, for
example, we had 17K easy.Also, one of the things I like about
independence is being surprised by who we get to play. When we belonged to a
conference, we only got 3 or 4 of these surprises (OOC games). Now? Double that.
I wonder if ESPN will re-up its partnership with BYU after the 8 years are up.
Good times, Cougar fans.Just win, baby!
With a greased schedule to get into the first edition of the PAC 12 Championship
Game the PAC 12 hardly treated Utah like garbage. Before the division
alignments were announced there was hand-ringing by Utah and Colorado. Utah was
treated royally in that they were placed in a very favorable position. All they
had to do the last Saturday of the regular season was beat the worst road team
in America on their own field. But you gotta hand it to Colorado----they
decapitated the Utes that day and derailed all the banter about "Rose
Bowl." Now we hear that the SOS is too hard and they if they reach .500
they are truly performing well.PAC 12 has thrown Utah under the bus
this time, though, folks, because now they won't have Weber State on the
schedule or Fresno State and they likely won't qualify for a bowl game yet
again.I just don't get how Mr. Rock thinks BYU's schedule
has vastly improved because they are playing Utah twice more. Surely he
wouldn't say that if it were Washington State or Colorado. But he needs to
help sell newspapers I suppose.
Smart PAC-12 teams, especially those with National Championship aspirations,
will continue to seek out BYU for their OOC schedule for one simple reason, BYU
is a "value" SOS enhancer, hence the USC and Stanford series.As long as SOS continues to be calculated by opponents W/L record, BYU will
continue to be an attractive opponent because they can schedule to assure
themselves 6 to 9 wins a year and then play 3 to 5 marquee games each year
against other legacy programs.BYU will continue to be an attractive
opponent for PAC-12 teams both because PAC-12 teams realize BYU is a legacy
program, with name recognition that will be valued by its fan base, and perhaps
most importantly because BYU provides a SOS boost without being as big a
competitive risk as another 8 or 9 win team. I'm objective enough of a BYU
fan to concede that.BYU will be able to continue to put together
interesting schedules which include games against legacy/marquee programs from
across the country as long as it continue to maintain a balanced schedule that
allows it to be a SOS enhancer to those legacy/marquee teams.
Great to see that the scheduling part of being an independent is becoming easier
and better. The biggest fear I had in the beginning was that BYU might be
ignored or even ostracized. It was one thing to be the big fish in
the WAC and MWC conferences, but to be an independent along side of Notre Dame
was going to be a tremendous step. We cannot hold a candle to the history and
tradition of the Golden Domers, but with the help of ESPN we will have the
opportunity each season to play the type of schedule that will allow
recognition. Each season will offer quality opponents with national
prominence. Now we can truly measure how we would do in a major conference when
we play six or more games each season against those teams. There
were times in the past when we might go undefeated and not be invited to a major
bowl because all the conferences had them sown up. Then with the BCS there was
always a chance, but a perfect season was required. Now with the advent of the
four team playoff system we conceivable might lose one game and still get an
I wonder the mindset of some of these big-name school schedulers and coaches.
Are they wanting to schedule BYU because they see it as a recognized program
that draws big crowds, but doesn't win many games against opponents in the
top 10 or top 20? Or, as Kralon posted, do they want to schedule
BYU because it would increase their SOS?What would happen if BYU was
winning 50% or even 60% of their games against top 25 opponents? Would BYU
have so many takers lining up to schedule a game with them in November?Perhaps there are some benefits to losing so many games to top 25 opponents?
Clearly being independent is more difficult than being in a conference, but it
is really exciting to see BYU be able to schedule so many big-name schools like
Texas, Notre Dame, USC and Wisconsin. Those type of games we used to see once
every three years or so, now BYU has some scheduled every year, and to be able
to play anywhere in the country is great!For BYU to continue
scheduling these great teams BYU will need to step up the level of play to
consistently finish in the top 25 so that great teams will want to play BYU to
increase their SOS in hopes of making the new playoff system.
There isn't a Utah fan on the planet that would agree with your assertion
that the Pac-12 has treated Utah like "garbage" or "second class
citizens." Further, the Pac-12 has never treated byu like "garbage"
either...the Pac-12 simply doesn't care about byu. Why should they?
It's nice to see. The Pac-12 in particular treated both BYU AND Utah like
garbage when the conference first expanded. The first thing the league did was
pull the plug on late-season non-conference games - except it seemed the rule
only applied to Utah. And the Pac-12 went out of their way to DEMAND that Utah
host athletic events on Sundays, despite Utah's polite request to avoid
such games as much as possible. And yet Ute fans still brag so much about a
conference that treats them as second-class citizens.
Independance has clearly lifted BYU to a new level of football. The recruiting
is getting better, the TV has been phenominal with ESPN and BYUtv working
together. This is a great time to be a Cougar fan! cant wait for kickoff in
Virginia! Go Cougs!