It's good to be a Ute ! Thank you for choosing the University of Utah
Kyle. Good luck on your mission.. just don't buckle under the peer
pressure while in the mission field and their many BYU fans. Stay committed to
your mission first and do come back healthy and in shape. The PAC 12 will test
your metal , but the coaches on the hill will help you become all that you can
be. GO UTES ! ! !
@StGtoSLC "So the game was NOT won and lost on that play."Okay, so what if that botched snap never happens? Your offense scored 17
points on BYU, and the longest drive was the 39 yard TD pass that happened after
a Riley Nelson TO.BYU essentially played 15 minutes of good football
in that game, and they still almost won. All credit to the Utes for
those 17 points. But the difference in the game was an unforced error by BYU
that took a bad, flukey bounce for the Cougs (and a fortunate one for the Utes)
that the Utes capitalized on.My whole point was to discredit the Ute
fans who say BYU can't beat Utah, or that Utah has dominated BYU. Utah
dominated BYU in the 2nd half of 2011, but 2010 and 2012 were pretty dominant
games for BYU that Utah was able to win on a couple of fortunate bounces.It's football, and it happens. If you want to think that 2006,
2007, and 2009 were all flukes for BYU, go ahead.Bottom line,
it's a great rivalry between two schools that has been extremely even over
@StGtoSLC "NO TEAM practices throwing the ball off-balance across the field
while rolling right. If you think that play was the specific result of
"practice," you don't know football. It was a great find, but a
desperate heave by Beck, and he was very fortunate that the defender rolled
right along with him (which they are trained to do), and that Harline stayed on
the opposite side of the field (which receivers are NOT trained to do."So basically what you're saying is that two guys made a great play
to win the game. Again, what was flukey about it? It didn't bounce off of
a Ute player's hands and land in Harline's lap. The Utes had 7-8 guys
in coverage and every opportunity to cover Harline. Beck made a great find and
a heckuva throw.So, again, what did Utah do to cause BYU's
center to snap the ball when Riley wasn't looking, or to make it take a bad
bounce when Alisa went to scoop it up?
@StGtoSLC "No. It didn't. That was a missed blocking assignment. The
snap was handled cleanly."I never said the snap wasn't
handled cleanly. I said it was a bad snap, which it was. It was a high snap
that Utah's punter had to go up and get, which threw off his timing. Watch
it again. I'm sure there was a missed blocking assignment in there, too,
but the snap was in part what led to the block.Same thing happened
in the BYU/Utah game. It was a bad snap to the punter's right(though it
was handled cleanly) that threw off the punter's timing, and I'm sure
there was a missed blocking assignment that allowed BYU to smother the
punter.The whole point was that Utah had already had that happen
once before the BYU game (and there may have been other instances throughout the
year, I don't know).BYU only botched a snap once all year that
was returned for a TD by the opponent and it happened against Utah.It was a flukey bad bounce that proved to be the difference in the game.
contd."'Plenty of time for a better team to come back and
win a game after making a mistake.'Very true, which BYU did,
and had a chance to send the game into OT at the end. We all know what
happened."Yes. We do. They still lost. So the game was NOT won
and lost on that play.
"Yes it did, it happened the week before against USU"No. It
didn't. That was a missed blocking assignment. The snap was handled
cleanly."John Beck and Johnny Harline practiced extremely hard
to arrive at their moment."NO TEAM practices throwing the ball
off-balance across the field while rolling right. If you think that play was the
specific result of "practice," you don't know football. It was a
great find, but a desperate heave by Beck, and he was very fortunate that the
defender rolled right along with him (which they are trained to do), and that
Harline stayed on the opposite side of the field (which receivers are NOT
trained to do)."Did the Utes bring in BYU's centers to
their practices and have them practice botching snaps so it would take a bad
bounce?"No, but they do practice picking up balls on strange
bounces and running them back. Thus, they led the nation in fumble recovery
@StGtoSLC "Also, you say that the botched snap was the SOLE reason BYU lost
that game. That play was in the 3rd quarter. Plenty of time for a better team to
come back and win a game after making a mistake."Very true,
which BYU did, and had a chance to send the game into OT at the end. We all
know what happened.So again, it came down to the sole reason that
BYU lost was because of the botched snap that was returned for the TD.
BYU's offense outscored your offense 21-17. So that turned out to be the
difference in the game.I'm not sure why you're calling my
argument inconsistent. A 4th and 18 completion, or a TD in the last few seconds
from Beck to Harline aren't flukes because that's players executing
plays that they've practiced all season long.I fail to see what
Utah did in practice to ensure BYU's center would botch a snap, and the
ball then taking a bad bounce that Mike Alisa couldn't pick up.That's a fluke. It happens in football. It makes the game great.But it's still a fluke.
@STGtoSLC "You don't think that the reason BYU even got back into the
game in the 4th was on a similar botched snap to Utah's punter (didn't
happen the rest of the season, so by your own definition, that's a fluke,
right?)?"Yes it did, it happened the week before against USU
when a bad snap by Utah led to a blocked punt by USU, which was returned for a
TD by the Aggies.And yes, the difference in the game was the botched
snap by BYU that took a bad bounce on Mike Alisa and it was returned for a TD by
Utah. That was a fluke. John Beck and Johnny Harline practiced extremely hard
to arrive at their moment. Same with Hall and George and Hall and Collie.
There were no weird bounces there, just good skill and practice (and Sylvester
didn't miss the tackle, he went for the PBU, so I'm not sure what your
point is there).Did the Utes bring in BYU's centers to their
practices and have them practice botching snaps so it would take a bad bounce?
truecoug1, not upset, just amused at your sense of homerism. That, in your mind,
is unquestionably a fluke. In the same breath, you cite player stats as
undeniable proof that 4th and 18, Beck to Harline and Hall to George (using your
logic, how many tackles did Stevenson Sylvester make in his career? But he
missed that one, which won the game for BYU) were not flukes, rejecting any
statistical information someone else presents. That inconsistency is what is
amusing.Also, you say that the botched snap was the SOLE reason BYU
lost that game. That play was in the 3rd quarter. Plenty of time for a better
team to come back and win a game after making a mistake. Happens all the time in
football. You don't think that the reason BYU even got back into the game
in the 4th was on a similar botched snap to Utah's punter (didn't
happen the rest of the season, so by your own definition, that's a fluke,
right?)?Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in flukes, I
think that's a cop out. My point is the inconsistency in your debate.
@Me, Myself, and I "Bottom line is Utah beat BYU last year"Very true, and I've never disputed that. The only thing that I have
brought up is that the difference in the game last year was because of a fluke
bad snap by BYU which took a bounce that went Utah's way.It
happens in football. It's a great part of the game. BYU definitely had a
lot of help in '84 with fortunate bounces, etc. And U may very well be
right, if BYU had played somebody other than Michigan they may have lost and not
won the National Championship in '84.But I'm not sure why
I was opening myself up to criticism, or diminishing Utah's
accomplishments. The Utes won, and they deserved to win. BYU played one of
their worst games of the season against the Utes and the Utes capitalized on
their mistakes.My point was that BYU had an unforced error that
resulted in the difference in the game. It was a fluke, because it was
something that never happened again for the rest of the season.Not
sure why that's so hard for U to understand.Go Cougars!
@StGtoSLCI'm not sure why you're upset. My only point was
to show that Utah won because of a fluke last year. The catch from
Westlee Tonga over KVN for the Utes' first TD was outstanding. The pass
from Hays to Dres Anderson was also excellent.But BYU pretty well
dominated the game. They had 70 more yards than the Utes, 25 first downs to the
Utes 14, and kept the Utes under 50 yards rushing for the game. The longest
drive for the Utes was the 39 yard pass to Dres Anderson after Riley threw a
pick, IIRC.So the biggest difference in the game, and the reason why
Utah won, was because of the botched snap by BYU that took a bad bounce on Mike
Alisa that Utah returned for a TD. I call it a fluke because it was the only
time last season that that happened.Not sure why you're upset
about that, or trying to argue the point. U have scoreboard, no question. But U have also won 2 of the last 3 on flukes, no question.Not sure why that's so hard for U to understand.Go Cougars!
It's always humorous to read posts by fans of both the U and BYU who put
emotions and bias before common sense. When you belittle the other team's
accomplishments and try to justify "your" team's short comings you
just prove to anyone who truly knows football that you don't have a clue,
while discrediting most of your comments. When you do these things you open
yourselves up to the same ridicule and criticisms. For example if it's
logical to credit a botched BYU snap as the reason the U won last years game
then by the same logic one can reason if BYU had played a better team than
Michigan (6-5) in the '84 Holiday Bowl then they wouldn't have won a
National Championship. Bottom line is Utah beat BYU last year, both teams played
horrible, and BYU beat Michigan in '84 and they won a National
Championship. Facts are facts, speculation is speculation. It's ok to
dislike or even hate the other team but you have to give respect where it's
due. Both are quality pograms. Remember when you spew crap based on emotion and
loosely sited stats/facts, you only embarrass yourselves.
truecoug1, it's pointless to reason with you when you demand to have your
argument both ways. Good luck, sir.
@StGtoSLCUtah was also top 3 in forced fumbles last year.
Unfortunately, they didn't force the fumble that led to the game-winning TD
for the Utes. That was all on BYU. So I'm not sure what your point is.And the only bad center/QB exchanges that BYU has committed that I know
of in the last two years are the two last year against Utah and the 1 in 2011
against Utah. Not sure if I'd call that a "knack".
Similar to the 2011 TCU game, where we had two or three horrible deep snaps to
our punter in that game, the only time during the season where that happened.Not a knack. "Flukey". So again, I'm not sure
what your point is. It wasn't good execution on Utah's part that our
QB and center botched the snap and that Mike Alisa couldn't come up with
it. It's good fortune, otherwise known as a fluke.That's
part of football. But it doesn't change the fact that two of the past
three games have been "flukey" wins for Utah.Go Cougars!
truecoug1, I'm not going to waste my time watching every BYU game to see
how many center-QB exchanges went awry. I already told you I've seen
several in the limited number I have watched over the last couple years. There
were at least TWO in that game alone, and of course the memorable one to start
off the scoring in the 2011 contest! You can argue it and call it what you want,
but BYU has had a knack for bad center-QB exchanges. No, you don't expect
them to happen, but when they do to a team like BYU it is less than surprising.
Utah led the nation in fumbles recovered for TDs last year. That's EXACTLY
the same level of evidence as your own excuses for Harline, 4th and 18 and OT
win not being "flukes!" But of course those things were in favor of your
team, so it's just "good execution" instead. SMH...
@StGtoSLCI understand that crazy stuff is a part of football, but
that doesn't make it any less flukey.Like I said, please
research out how many times BYU botched a snap in 2012 that was returned for a
TD by the other team. My guess is one. And it happened against Utah.Flukey. Which is part of football. I don't have a problem with that.
But it was flukey, and it's the reason BYU lost the game.Similar to 2010, when several flukey things happened which gave Utah the W
(shanked punt by Utah that hit a BYU gunner and was recovered by Utah, blown
call by officials on Bradley's knee, pass tipped by Brian Logan that fell
into the lap of the WR he was covering, etc).It's football, and
it happens. But both of those games were definitely flukey wins for the Utes.
truecoug1, over the past couple years the Cougs botched more than a few shotgun
exchanges that I've seen (and I didn't watch more than half of their
games), and if I'm not mistaken, Utah led the nation last year in
scoop-and-scores. Not flukey. Just football.
Welcome to the Utes Kyle! So excited to see you play. I am also so glad to
hear that you are serving a mission. Upon your return, football aside, be
excited about attending the U. I believe it is the best LDS campus in the
country. I loved the Institute and learned so much there. I met my wife and
married her in the temple while at the U and had many other spiritual
experiences on campus. Great classes (institute and also the secular classes).
Great education (today I work with and get paid the same as Harvard grads and
other prestigious universities). You will love not only the football program
(best in the state), but also the school and campus (best in the state). Welcome!
@U90 "BYU kickers missing field goals is no more flukey than Weddle leaving
Harline wide open in the end zone"Bro, where have I said
anything about BYU missing FG's being "flukey"? Maybe U missed
this part of the comment I wrote to TwoForFlinching:"When I say
fluke, I'm not talking about missed FG's. Our kicking game was
horrible last year. That's no secret. I'm talking about the botched
snap that took a bad bounce when Mike Alisa tried to scoop it up. Utah took it
back for a TD that proved to be the winning points. Unforced error that cost
BYU."The botched snap (an unforced error) was the difference in
the game. If that doesn't happen, BYU either scores on the drive to take a
14-10 lead, or at the very least they keep the Utes from getting their winning
points, and the missed FG's at the end of the game are rendered moot.So I'm still waiting for that research. Let me know how many
botched snaps BYU had in 2012 that the opposing team returned for a TD. My
guess is one.Flukey.Go Cougars!
true,BYU kickers missing field goals is no more flukey than Weddle
leaving Harline wide open in the end zone, or McCain letting Collie get behind
him on 4th and 18. Sounds like you haven't seen those games (perhaps you
were on your mission). Maybe you're the one who needs to do some
research.What in the world was flukey about BYU missing a field goal
from distance? Happens all the time. Keep in mind, you started the flukey
whining, now support it.
@U90What was flukey about those wins? How many TD catches did
Johnny Harline have in 2006? How many TD passes did John Beck have in 2006?
How many receiving yards (and catches) did Austin Collie have in 2007? How many
passing yards did Max Hall have in 2007?Now how many botched snaps
did BYU have in 2012 that were returned for a TD by the opposing team?Why don't you do the research on those topics, let me know what you find,
and then tell me which of those events/wins you would consider
"flukey".I'll be interested in your findings.Go Cougars!
true,Why stop at BYU's flukey losses? What about their 3
recent flukey wins (Harline, 4th & 18, Max hates Utah)? Forget about those
or did you just intentionally leave them out?Reverse the outcome of
the 2012 game as well as the three games I mentioned and all of the sudden Utah
has won 10 of the last 11. You probably don't want to continue down the
And speaking of Utah's athletic program, here's a fun summary of what
happened this last year for the U:Football: Finished 5-7, 9th in
PAC, no bowl game. Sidenotes: Neasi Leota gets dismissed from the team for
assaulting his wife, Brian Blechen suspended 3 games for multiple failed drug
tests for marijuana, Quentin Pedroza dismissed from team for undisclosed
violation of team rules.Basketball: Finished 15-18, 7-14 in
conference play, 9th in PAC, no postseason. Ute fans throw parade for the team
making the semis of the PAC tournament.Baseball: Finished 21-31,
7-23 in conference play, last in the PAC, no postseason.Swimming:
Dismisses coach after allegations of abuse and sexual abuse arise, school
launches "independent" investigation that consists of three U grad
investigators. Results of investigation are mocked by Yahoo sports in a
scathing article about how Chris Hill got off scot free, even though he clearly
knew about the allegations and did nothing.Rugby (club sports, not
part of athletic program, but the icing on the cake): Program suspended
indefinitely for violating school rules, and then violating agreement held with
University.Clearly, the Utah athletic program is FAR better than
@TwoForFlinchingWhen I say fluke, I'm not talking about missed
FG's. Our kicking game was horrible last year. That's no secret.
I'm talking about the botched snap that took a bad bounce when Mike Alisa
tried to scoop it up. Utah took it back for a TD that proved to be the winning
points. Unforced error that cost BYU.BYU essentially played 15
minutes of good football last year. That was probably the worst game of the
season for the Cougs, yet even for all of that, BYU out-gained the Utes by 100
yards and had a chance to send the game into OT at the end. In the
last 7 games, Utah is up 4-3 on the Cougs. If you want to call that a trend,
feel free. I'd call that a great rivalry.My initial point was
to show that Utah's athletic program and Wazzu's were the only ones in
the PAC to finish 9th or worse in all three of those sports. U can spin it
however U want, but that means that Utah and WSU are in a group all by
themselves.Hence the comparison.Pretty sad.Go Cougars!
@ truecoug1BYU football didn't lose to an athletic program, it
lost to Utah's football team. Also, BYU loses the vast majority of the
time to Utah. So by definition, it's not a fluke when BYU loses. If
you're specifically talking about FG's, BYU misses those all the time
as well, so any way you slice it, it's not a fluke. BYU losing to Utah is
a trend at this point.Utah does not have a bad athletic program.
The U is simply making the transition to a higher level of competition. It
takes time to build a program up to PAC standards, especially considering the
monetary disadvantages Utah has had. Wazzu has had the cash flow from the
conference and the recruiting advantages that come with membership of the PAC-12
and they still can't compete. Utah football has already earned its first
bowl win, and basketball made it to the semis in the conf. tournament last year.
Those two teams are going to be fine over time. Utah baseball has always
struggled to compete, and will most likely continue to be in the bottom of the
@TwoForFlinchingWhat did I say that wasn't true? It IS
pathetic that BYU football has lost to an athletic program that is currently of
the same quality as Wazzu. Yes, Utah's football program has been better
than Wazzu's the last few years. But they both finished this last year
with losing records and no postseason. So it's pathetic that BYU lost to
them last year.Obviously the previous two years in football are a
different story, since Utah's football program was better than it is now.
But that's part of "trolling" an article, spewing hyperbole and
trying to get under people's skin.Looks like it worked :)Maybe it would make U feel better if I put it like this: "It's
pathetic that BYU FOOTBALL lost to a program of that caliber last year,
regardless of how flukey the loss was." Currently, it's
safe to say that Wazzu and Utah have the worst athletic programs in the PAC 12
across those 3 sports, so U are currently on the same level as Wazzu.Not sure why that's so hard for you to understand.Go Cougars!
@ truecougYou weren't just talking about football? Then why
would you say this:"How does it feel to know that your program
is equivalent to Wazzu's?It's pathetic that BYU FOOTBALL
has lost to a program of that caliber for three years in a row, regardless of
how flukey a couple of the losses were."So you're either
lying, or you actually believe that baseball and basketball have an effect on
the football program. You must think Duke has a power football team because
their basketball and lacrosse teams are so good, right?Utah is not
another Wazzu in the Pac-12, and you know that. Troll harder.
@Two For Flinching "Also, where Utah basketball and baseball finish has no
bearing on the football program. On the gridiron Utah football stands head and
shoulders above Wazzu, evidenced by the blowout last season, and the fact that
the Cougars haven't been to a bowl game since 2003."Unfortunately, I wasn't just talking about the football program. I was
talking about the overall athletics program of Utah versus Wazzu in the three
main collegiate sports of football, basketball, and baseball. And currently, U
and Wazzu were the only programs to finish 9th or last in all three of those
sports.I have no problem with saying Utah was better than Wazzu in
football. Wazzu was better than Utah in baseball. But both programs have one
thing in common:They were the only two programs in the PAC last year
that finished 9th or worse across those three sports. Thus, Utah is
basically another Washington St in the PAC. Sad, but true.:) Go Cougars!
That's fine, since Utah's schedule is obviously tougher than it ever
has been. However, I don't like it when I hear Ute fans say "If we had
had BYU's schedule, we would've gone bowling". Nor do I like it
when BYU fans say the same thing about Utah's schedule. NOBODY knows what
would've happened.What we do know is that Utah finished 5-7
with a harder schedule throughout, while BYU finished 8-5 with an overall easier
schedule (though I would say BYU had the stiffer competition in their higher
tier games).Anyhoo, like I said, I was bored and decided to come
stir the pot a little bit :) I think this is the first time I can say that
I've "trolled" a Utah article. Usually I don't bother, but
it's the off-season and I needed a little excitement :)I like
your comments, U90. U can dish it out, but you also are a level-headed fan who
can see both sides. Hopefully U feel the same way about me :)Go
Cougars, and all the best to the Utes in their PAC 12 endeavors!
@U90 "You have to understand the context of my comments. My posts are ALWAYS
in response to ridiculous statements by Y fans."I can totally
understand that, we have some pretty intense fans on both sides that come up
with ridiculous stuff to say :) In Chris A's defense, when Utah went into
the PAC, I do remember there being a lot of comments from Utah fans about how
the Utes would immediately compete for a PAC championship and Rose Bowl berth.
I don't have a problem with that, because that should be the goal, but I
think most Utah fans understood that it would most likely be a longer
process.I'm assuming that Chris A's comments were directed
at those fans who are now singing a different tune since Utah has struggled in
the first couple of years, blaming the lack of success on their harder SOS.continued
@U90 "Last decade, YES! All time, not necessarily. One one hand BYU has more
top 25 rankings and the NC, however Utah still dominates the all-time head to
head. Overall I'd give the football edge to the Y, basketball edge to the
U."I would definitely agree with that :) We BYU fans like to
think that since our basketball program has been pretty awesome the last few
seasons, because we have the advantage in head-to-head with Utah, and because
Utah has really struggled the last few years, that that somehow erases the
dominance and legacy that Utah's basketball program has established
basically since its inception.It doesn't. Utah's
basketball program has a far greater legacy, and is much more prominent, than
BYU's. Likewise, I would suggest that BYU's football program has a
far greater legacy, and is much more prominent, than Utah's. A
decade of success for BYU in basketball and for Utah in football doesn't
erase the past accomplishments of the other's program.Bottom
line, both are great schools with solid athletics programs. I just enjoy the
friendly rivalry smack :)Go Cougars!
@trugoug "I have no problem giving U the last 11 games.... Utah definitely
had the leg up during that period of time. U also went to two BCS games, a
distinct advantage to the Utes. Does this somehow make Utah a
"superior" football program to BYU?"Last decade, YES!
All time, not necessarily. One one hand BYU has more top 25 rankings and the
NC, however Utah still dominates the all-time head to head. Overall I'd
give the football edge to the Y, basketball edge to the U.You have
to understand the context of my comments. My posts are ALWAYS in response to
ridiculous statements by Y fans. In this case it was Chris A (see page 1) who
criticizes Utah's record since joining the PAC12, yet during that same
period Utah has owned BYU and had a much tougher SOS. Y fans live in a huge
glass house and shouldn't be throwing stones from it.
@Ute fansI find it extremely ironic that U use the final Sagarin
rankings to show that the patsies that U played were obviously better than the
patsies that BYU played, yet in the same breath declare Utah as the superior
football team even though BYU finished ranked almost 40 spots higher than the
mighty Utes.Can't have it both ways, fellas.@U90
"But I do know that Utah owns BYU over the last 11 games and has won two BCS
bowl games which is enough proof that Utah has been the better program over the
last decade."I have no problem giving U the last 11 games. BYU
was horrible during the last four Crowton years, and Utah definitely had the leg
up during that period of time. U also went to two BCS games, a distinct
advantage to the Utes.Does this somehow make Utah a
"superior" football program to BYU? Since BC has owned Notre Dame over
the last decade, are they now considered a "superior" football program
to the Fightin' Irish?I would guess no, unless you're an
Eagles fan :)
@ truecoug1"Utah's patsies last season: WSU, UNCO,
Colorado, CalBYU's patsies last season: WSU, Weber, Idaho,
Hawai'i, NMSU"Cal finished ranked #78. Weber, Idaho,
Hawaii and NMSU finished #179, #165, #161, and #174, respectively. Listing Cal
as a patsy along with these other schools is disingenuous. Also,
where Utah basketball and baseball finish has no bearing on the football
program. On the gridiron Utah football stands head and shoulders above Wazzu,
evidenced by the blowout last season, and the fact that the Cougars haven't
been to a bowl game since 2003.
@truecoug "In 2008, Boston College beat Notre Dame for the sixth time in a
row, and they own a 6-4 lead over the Fighting Irish since 2002. Would U say
that Boston College's football program is superior to Notre
Dame's?"BYU is 8-3 in their last 11 games against Colorado
State. Wouldn't you agree that BYU has been the superior team? Sure Notre
Dame went to the NC last year but other than that they have been pretty mediocre
since 2002, maybe BC has been the better program since 02, I don't know I
haven't done the analysis. But I do know that Utah owns BYU
over the last 11 games and has won two BCS bowl games which is enough proof that
Utah has been the better program over the last decade. And please don't
talk about Utah being lucky winning close games... had BYU not won 3 close games
(i.e. Harline, Collie, George) it would be 11-0 Utah.
truecoug1--"Utah's patsies last season: WSU, UNCO,
Colorado, CalBYU's patsies last season: WSU, Weber, Idaho,
Hawai'i, NMSU"'12 Final SOS Rankings--2-Star byu at #63UTAH at #41This illustrates perfectly how
these two sets of teams above stack-up!
truecoug1"@AZUTE1 Wow...so an FCS school that beats
BYU's FCS opponent and finished 5-6 on the season is now a
"powerhouse"? And Cal, who finished 3-9, is a "powerhouse"
because they played the 10th toughest schedule in the country?"Where did I refer to UNCO's as anything even remotely resembling,
"powerhouse"? I stated this fact solely because I've witnessed
seemingly endless negative references to UNCO by 2-Star byu fans since last
season, while conveniently omitting the fact Weber State was on their schedule
and lost at home to UNCO, as well!Regarding CAL, when I see a fan of
a school pointing finger at a school and disparaging their final record, yet
this fan's school plays against a SOS in the Bottom-50% of the nation while
CAL plays against an utterly brutal week-in, week-out grind of a schedule ranked
#10 toughest in the nation, I point it out. 2-Star byu has never in their
history even remotely played against such a SOS, ever!truecoug1--"....what makes U think the Utes would have had an easy time of it
against Hawai'i? Or Idaho? Or NMSU?"You're being
@StGVery good points. I was commenting to my dad about last season
and how it was ironic that in USU's best season in forever, they still
couldn't beat BYU, and in Utah's worst season in forever BYU still
couldn't beat them :) Utah's definitely had the upper hand the last
few years and, regardless of how flukey I feel like a couple of the wins were, U
definitely have scoreboard :)But last year was a weird one for BYU.
I don't feel like BYU was a terrible team...the Cougs lost four games by a
total of 13 points last year, and three of those games were against Top 25 teams
at their place. But they were definitely bad in a couple of key areas that
killed them (the kicking game and red zone offense).That's why
I'm excited for this year. I think a revamped offense line and an OC who
has brought a clear-cut identity to the offensive side of the ball will help the
offense out a lot. I think the defense will be almost as good as last year.
The kicking game still worries me :)Can't wait!
truecoug1, yes, Utah underachieved last year clearly. I am one of their biggest
critics regarding certain individuals either directly or indirectly leading to
it. You're right, saying "if this" and "if that" is pure
conjecture (which, by the way, goes for your statement about the BYU-Utah games
as well). Truthfully, though, neither team was very good last year. In my
opinion, the head-to-head game was a matter of which team was less terrible than
the other, not which team was "better" (although it was funny to me
after the 2011 game that I heard so frequently "if we played the QBs we have
now--Nelson and Hays--BYU would dominate." Wish came true, still didn't
happen. Now last season is blamed on Nelson.).
@StGtoSLCThanks for the correction on the KO return, you're
absolutely right. And Reggie Dunn was a complete stud, hope he does well in the
NFL. But the point still stands. Utah has shown a propensity to lose to teams
it should have no problems beating, regardless of statements like these:"Despite their record and overall lack of performance all season, CU
had and still does have some very good football players. Hawaii, Idaho and NMS
really don't."That's a cop out, since U can say that
about any team. Hawai'i, Idaho, and NMSU all have good players in their
own right. Who's to say Utah would have blown by those teams?My point is, there are no guarantees. We don't know if Utah would have
been bowl eligible had they played BYU's schedule and vice versa.What we DO know is that Utah finished 5-7 and BYU 8-5 and that Utah snuck by
the Cougs, which renders a bowl-less, losing season moot for the vast majority
of Ute fans. :)Go Cougars!
@U90And per scoreboard, Texas A&M>Alabama. Yet which team
was considered better?And U have yet to answer my question. In
2008, Boston College beat Notre Dame for the sixth time in a row, and they own a
6-4 lead over the Fighting Irish since 2002. Would U say that Boston
College's football program is superior to Notre Dame's?Also, here's a fun factoid for U. There were two athletic programs this
last year in the PAC 12 that finished 9th or worse in football, basketball, AND
baseball: Washington St and Utah.How does it feel to know that your
program is equivalent to Wazzu's?It's pathetic that BYU
football has lost to a program of that caliber for three years in a row,
regardless of how flukey a couple of the losses were.It's even
MORE pathetic that Utah IS a program of that caliber.Go Cougars!
truecoug1, the Utes had 1 (ONE) TD from a KR at CU that was the last score of
the game directly after CU relied on one of their own to "squeak" into a
tie late in the game. Yes, they had a harder time against CU than they should
have, and it helped the Buffs' that they played possibly their most
inspired ball all season to try to win one for their coach's job. Despite
their record and overall lack of performance all season, CU had and still does
have some very good football players. Hawaii, Idaho and NMS really don't.
truecoug,Per scoreboardUtah > BYU.... again
@AZUTE1 "For starters, UNCO beat Weber State in Ogden. Also, CAL played
against the 10th toughest schedule in the nation--"Wow...so an
FCS school that beats BYU's FCS opponent and finished 5-6 on the season is
now a "powerhouse"? And Cal, who finished 3-9, is a
"powerhouse" because they played the 10th toughest schedule in the
country? Kansas played the 3rd toughest schedule in the country and
finished 1-11. Are they a powerhouse, too? Lol!Utah's patsies
last season: WSU, UNCO, Colorado, CalBYU's patsies last season: WSU,
Weber, Idaho, Hawai'i, NMSUOne more patsy game. And, again,
after Utah had to rely on two kickoffs returned for TD's to squeak by a
1-11 Colorado team, what makes U think the Utes would have had an easy time of
it against Hawai'i? Or Idaho? Or NMSU?Point is, Utah MAY have
reached a bowl game playing BYU's schedule. But there are definitely no
guarantees. And BYU MAY have done better than Utah did if the Cougars played
the Utes' schedule. But we'll never know.What we do know
is Utah finished 5-7, BYU 8-5.And Sagarin has BYU>Utah.Go Cougars!
@U90 "Remind me, what are you trying to prove over here on the Utah
boards?"Not trying to prove anything. It's the offseason,
I'm bored, and I'm taking the time to have some friendly smack-talk
with Ute fans.Oh, and for your information, per Sagarin:BYU>Utah.Also, the fact that U use beating BYU as your metric
of success and the fact that your football program's "legacy" is
based on winning 14 of the last 25 against BYU and winning two BCS bowl games
tells me all I need to know about Utah's "superiority" as a
football school.Utah had two great years in 2004 and 2008...and
that's it. U can't hold a candle to BYU's overall
accomplishments, which is probably why BYU was ranked by ESPN as a top 25
program all-time, while Utah is nowhere to be found on that list.And
that's also why U constantly compare yourself to BYU, since U recognize
that BYU is the flagship program of the state, and more heralded in football
than good ol' Utah.While that is very flattering, it's
also kind of sad.Go Cougars!
"Yes, because Cal, Northern Colorado, and Colorado were such powerhouses
(roll my eyes). It took you two KO returns for TD's to squeak out a win
over a 1-11 CU team. What makes U think Utah would have walked through
Hawai'i and NMSU?"For starters, UNCO beat Weber State in
Ogden. Also, CAL played against the 10th toughest schedule in the nation--vsNevadavsSouthern Utah@#12
Ohio St@#13 USC [w/Matt Barkley]vsArizona
Stvs#25 UCLA@Washington Stvs#20 Stanford@UtahvsWashingtonvs#3 Oregon#16 Oregon St
@U90Also, way to avoid answering both of my questions, good
side-stepping job there :)Go Cougars! And friendly ribbing aside, I
do hope Utah has success in the PAC 12 and wish the Utes all the best (except
for on September 21st, of course :) )
truecongrats on coming home from your mission to watch BYU win 3 of
4. Probably means you also came in to this world in time to see Utah lead the
series 14-11 and win 2 BCS bowl games.Remind me, what are you trying
to prove over here on the Utah boards? If you want to proclaim BYU superiority
you won't be able to because your team just aint that good... they are
simply getting owned by the Utes over the past 10 years and haven't put
together any significant accomplishments on a national scale during your
lifetime (see Sugar & Fiesta bowls).For your information, per
Sagarin:Cal > Hawaii, Idaho, NMST, WeberColorado > Hawaii,
Idaho, NMST, WeberNorthern Colorado > NMST & Weber
@U90 "Bottom line, BYU is not better than Utah, they simply play an easier
schedule (see Idaho, Hawaii, Weber State and New Mexico State)."Yes, because Cal, Northern Colorado, and Colorado were such powerhouses (roll
my eyes). It took you two KO returns for TD's to squeak out a win over a
1-11 CU team. What makes U think Utah would have walked through Hawai'i
and NMSU?"Do you have any original explanation for why a
supposedly superior football program can't beat the doormat of the PAC
12?"Boston College beat Notre Dame in 2008 for the sixth time in
a row, and they hold a 6-4 lead in the last 10 games over the Fightin'
Irish. Yet I would still consider Notre Dame a superior football program.Wouldn't you?Go Cougars!
@U90 "But if you want to talk about 2013 SOS, everyone agrees Utah's is
tougher than BYU's.... again. Which probably means Utah will beat BYU...
again"What? How does a harder SOS mean that one team will beat
another? That means that Missouri should have beat every team they played last
year, since they had ot really following your logic there."If
BYU is so much better than Utah, why can't they beat the Utes?"I appreciate the smack talk, but really? "Can't" beat the
Utes? I got back from my mission in 2009 in time to watch BYU beat Utah for the
3rd time in 4 years. Now Utah's on a little bit of a run themselves.
That's how rivalries go. If the refs had made the correct call in 2010 and
if Mike Alisa had fallen on the botched snap last year instead of trying to
scoop it up, BYU would have taken 5 of 7 from the Utes.But again,
that's the way rivalries go. Do U have scoreboard? Absolutely. But
"can't" beat the Utes? (roll my eyes) Whatever helps U sleep, I
sammy,I'm tracking just fine... 8 of 11 and 2 BCS bowl wins
means Utah > BYU during that periodDo you have any original
explanation for why a supposedly superior football program can't beat the
doormat of the PAC 12? LOL
U90Excuse me, you're the one that mentioned the weak schedule
of BYU. Try to follow along.And yes, I forgot about your terribly
difficult SOS excuse. Sorry I missed mentioning that one. Got me on that one.
That's some honorable fete in losing all those games to
superior talent and that's one special excuse to validate being a bottom
dweller. You must be proud of going bowl-less at 5-7. I think I get it.Will it be a greater honor losing to Oregon and Stanford this season and going
bowl-less again?Touching thing this 'honor' and pride
thing you mention. Very touching... honor at 5-7.Me thinks the
pitchforks and torches along with chants for someone's head or some kind of
change will be ripe and in the air soon enough.Are there any new and
original excuses out there for BYU's overall ranking over the Utes this
past year or can we just settle this once and for all and agree going bowl-less
was just unfair for the Utes?
sammy,sorry you can't follow but the discussion was about why
Utah didn't make it to a bowl game in 2012... not about the 3 weakest teams
on Utah's schedule in 2013. But if you want to talk about 2013 SOS,
everyone agrees Utah's is tougher than BYU's.... again. Which
probably means Utah will beat BYU... again, and Y fans will say "we gave the
game away on a silver platter".... again. If BYU is so much
better than Utah, why can't they beat the Utes? You're SOS is weaker
and you're losing the head-to-head battle 8 of last 11. Bottom line, BYU
is not better than Utah, they simply play an easier schedule (see Idaho, Hawaii,
Weber State and New Mexico State).
u90"Chris A., if 8-5 results can only be built on the backs of
Idaho, Hawaii, Weber State and New Mexico State then I'll take 5-7."Then you will continue being bowl-less. LOLNot so sure how the
rest of UteNation feels about taking a 5-7 and bowl-less but I'm betting on
some candid discussion about coaching after the first few losses.And
what of these teams...Weber StateWashington StateColoradoAnd of course we have to add BYU to the mix.BUT "it's a difficult schedule week end and week out",
"it's a tough conference", "it will take a few cycles of
recruiting", blah, blah, blah.Excuses, excuses, excuses...Yep it's a 3-9, 4-8, or best 5-7 season again...It will
be another fun season.
Welcome kid to the Ute Nation (aka the state's flagship football program)!
If we wanted him we would have won him to Provo.
MyPerspectiveI read it from a regional writer for a sports reporting
service. A lot of schools employ that tactic so they can pressure a kid to
commit and then later claim they don't have an offer to the kid if he
Chris A. Utes were 5-7 for a reason. It wasn't because they
were playing Idaho state in November. Nice try and thanks for proving the
BYU obsession with the utes
VegasUte"He did indeed have an offer from byU, which was a
"take it now or we'll pull it" kind of offer, from what I am
told." No kidding...where did you hear that? If true, what a horrible
position to put a young man in.
MCHS2318Thanks for your insight. Always like to hear from insiders
with actual knowledge. We Ute fans love his enthusiasm already and his All-Poly
MVP. Hope he has a great Sr season and a great mission. Looking forward to
spring ball 2016 to see him in his Utah uniform.Go Utes!!
AgVikBronc: That was very funny!! Afraid to play byU, then
schedule a home and home with Michigan? Nice try.Afraid to go back
up to Logan? We threw you some chump change, which USU gobbled up in a flash,
and will make three times the money by playing another home game. That's
called smart economics. No one has ever been afraid to play in Logan, EVER -
except maybe when it was against Merlin Olsen. Nice comedic relief, though!Is somebody a little jealous about losing a Cache Valley giant to the
Utes? HmmmmmmI love it when a Utah story draws trollers from the
north and the south!Go Utes! Onward and Upward!!
Welcome to Ute Nation! Glad that Whitt made your dream come true and that you
chose the right school.Naval:He did indeed have an offer
from byU, which was a "take it now or we'll pull it" kind of offer,
from what I am told. He is a two way player, both OL and DL. It appears Utah
wants him for the DL, but he may have a chance to play OL. Either way, he will
be ready for spring ball in 2017. We'll see what happens.Go
AgVic,USU has taken, what.... maybe one of the last 12 games from
the Utes. Nice try
@Navel VetThis kid played both ways. Everyone at MC played both
ways. Don't know why but that's the way one of the states greatest
coaches runs his team. Whoever said he is wasting his time and should've
committed to the home Aggies is funny. Why would a kid of his talent do that?
to wwookie 10:35 a.m. July 9You forgot about how ironic it is.
wwookie"You can't win a comparison with where the utes are
now"It is very hard to win a comparison with a 5-7 football
team. Nice argument buddy. Keep making Ute nation proud.
Hypocrisy and obsession? Only cougar homers fail to see how silly
and hypocritical it is to troll a Utah article complaining about Chrissy
trolling BYU articles.Now that Utah HS kids only remember the last
dozen years when the utes have been the premier football team in the state, Utah
will continue to win most in state recruiting battles. And the utes competing in
the PAC 12 only amplifies that. Based on the number of cougar homers posting on
this article, it is crystal clear that BYU faithful are extremely jealous of the
utes. You could choose to be happy with your team and their continued
successes. You can't win a comparison with where the utes are now, - so why
join the ranks of Chrissy?
MCHS2318Congrats! I hope he is successful.
U90First of all you have no idea what team I follow. I said nothing
to the effect of me liking BYU. I could be a USU, Boise St, or even an Alabama
fan for all you know. It is ignorant to assume from a small post on a news
article. But I will commend you as the first sentence you wrote actually made
sense in regards to what I was talking about. The second sentence though.... I
mentioned nothing of Utah's record vs BYU the past few years. Also what a sad truth about the state of Utah's program, "if 8-5
results can only be built on the backs of Idaho, Hawaii, Weber State and New
Mexico State then I'll take 5-7." Happy with not going to a bowl game.
Typical Utah fans trying to justify losing any way possible...
This kid is the greatest recruit to ever come out of the state of Utah, the
United States of America, Earth, current galaxy, surrounding galaxy...anywhere
period! He can bench press two Earths, squuat Jupiter, and runs the 40 so fast
that he goes back in time. No other school has a recruit like him...ever!Just teasing. I hope that this young man is successful in school, his
mission, football field, and especially life.Go UTES!!
@AgVIkBorne"The Utes have admitted that with the Pac schedule
the ooc schedule needs to be cupcake, and BYU doesn't fit that mold, so yes
they are "afraid" to play BYU. Plain and simple. They are also afraid to
come back up to Logan"------And your source is? Who are these so
called "Utes"? I guess it's easier to make stuff up that base it on
facts. That takes a little time and research as opposed to quickly spewing out
nonsense. Also, Utah will be fine with out your support; make no mistake. Talk
about arrogance, one good season and USU is world beaters....sheeesh!
Glad to see my bro finally get the attention he deserves! He is one of the
hardest workers ever! He is way quick for his size and like it said, he is very
strong. Kyle does start both ways, but is just getting recruited as a DT. Him
not being rated I think is bogus, considering he was the defensive MVP at the
all poly camp, and thats saying something considering the top recruits from all
over were there as well. He will do great at the next level, but first, lets get
that state championship!
Chris B - U sound like U wouldn't care if the Utes went 0-12 as long as U
are in the PAC?
Basically U 90, he is right. The Utes have admitted that with the Pac schedule
the ooc schedule needs to be cupcake, and BYU doesn't fit that mold, so yes
they are "afraid" to play BYU. Plain and simple. They are also afraid to
come back up to Logan, thus the buyout of the previously scheduled game in Logan
next season. Pretty sad to admit as a Ute that you guys are scared to come back
up to Logan to play because you know the most likely outcome.The arrogance
of a lot of the Ute fans is making it continually harder to cheer for all the
Hypocrisy at it's finest. If this kid had committed to BYU all the
Ute trolls would be out in force downgrading him due to the fact he is unranked
by every major recruiting service. But because he signed with Utah he is a
"tough, home grown kid" and a great addition to any team. BYU's 2 and 3 star recruits aren't looking so bad now are they?
Too bad such great talent is going to waste at a declining program. HE would
have been much better off going to USU or BYU if he wanted to stay in state.
morganh, it really doesn't make any difference either way, but Rivals,
Scout and ESPN recruiting services all list him as having been offered by BYU,
Hawaii, Utah and Utah State.Sounds like a nice pickup. With a lot of
work in college, he could have a story similar to Zane Beadles and Tony
Bergstrom as very good, but lightly recruited local line products who took their
game seriously enough to develop into all-conference and NFL picks. Good luck,
young man, but take care of the mission first.
"He held offers from Utah State and Hawaii at the time of his commitment.
Schools like BYU and Boise State were showing increasing interest." --
Brandon GurneyI don't know anything about Boise State's
interest, but the Indy-WACers were more than just "interested". Rivals
(and Scout for that matter) is showing they'd "offered".Does anyone know if Christiansen is a 2-way player? Rivals lists him as a DT,
but the article refers to him as an OL. And so does his size. 6-4, 305 sounds
more like an OL than a DT; especially for a high schooler.
Chris BYou need to read the whole article and have a little
perspective. He only held offers from USU and Hawaii before he committed to
Utah. Utah has been recruiting him since his sophomore year. Now that does not
mean he is not any good. For example: Cody Hoffman who plays for B.Y.U. has been
rated by Athlon as a top ten wide receiver and his only offers were from
Sacramento St. and B.Y.U. It happens every year there are in state recruits
that choose Utah over B.Y.U. and in state recruits that choose B.Y.U. over Utah
or Utah State. Also next year the BCS goes to a 4 plus one model. It could
happen that Utah wins the PAC-12 title and does not get invited because their
are 4 other teams in BCS conferences that are either 12-0 or 11-1 that they
would rather invite. Congrats on the recruit!! You won a recruit!!
Looks like a good pickup for Utah. Maybe after going on a mission he will
discover the better way and transfer to BYU. Either way he seems like a good kid
and deserves continued success.
Kudos to this young man for desiring to study in December rather than play
Sounds like a good get for Utah. A good showing at the poly camp probably sealed
the deal. It also looks like the Utah Haters have come out in force. It's a
good thing they have Utah's last season to bust on; because they can't
say squat about the previous 9; or the fact that even in the mist of their worst
season in 10 years they still beat the nomad of college football from Provo. GO UTES!
Chris A., if 8-5 results can only be built on the backs of Idaho, Hawaii, Weber
State and New Mexico State then I'll take 5-7.md, let me get
this straight, Utah wins the last 8 of 11 and you think they're now afraid
to play BYU? Brilliant logic!
P.S. (to Chris):I have to admit that Utah does have the premier
women's gymnastics program in the state. But in sports world reality,
that's currently about it. Sorry to have to burst your overly inflated red
bubble. But that's the reality of how life currently is on the hill.
To Chris B:I do think other in-state schools missed out on this guy.
He is good. Probably too good for the Utes... since they are on the decline and
are now appearing to be a has-been football program. Time to try rebuilding.I guarantee you no other in-state university is currently envious of
Utah. They are the only division 1 school in Utah who couldn't recently
qualify for a bowl game. Little brother USU took them to the woodshed last
season. And Utah has fought it out with Colorado for the PAC cellar each year
they've been a member. As such, Utah currently has very little to brag
about (and even less after September) and so is envied by no one. It's
purely delusional to think otherwise.I wasn't going to comment
on this, Chris, but your hilarious comment forced me too. The record needed to
be set straight.
Rivals has him at 7 stars which will be the average stars for the ute commits
going forward. behold the prestige, the glory the might of the pac 11.1.
@Chris BObsess much? You know, I'll define it for you. To preoccupy
or fill the mind of (someone) continually, intrusively, and to a troubling
extent.The Utes got one. The Aggies are better than them right now. The
Utes are afraid to play the Cougs. Sad.
Chris BKeep saying whatever you want to make you feel better. You
should be happy with the 5-7 result of last year as it is the best year you will
have in a while.
Chris....you forgot to mention how many stars.
Love to see a tough, home grown Utah kid like this commit to the Utes. Best of luck to him this year and in the seasons to follow.Go
Welcome to the ute nation!Take advantage of your time away from
football as a missionary, but don't forget to stay in shape ;-)
I can't imagine why he would want to have home and homes with Oregon,
Stanford, USC, ucla, and Michigan and be in rose bowl contention every year
instead of having his season over after the first loss(in byu's case at the
hands of their rival Utah)I am shocked the idea of a WAC/mwc title
When you look at the number of kids the past few years who had offers from byu,
usu, and Utah, the majority of those kids pick Utah Which is no
surprise when we are in a previous PAC 12 conference and byu and usu are home
dreaming of a power conference calling The recruting domination
certainly is correlated to our 5-1 record against in state opponents last
several years. Face it, byu fans and usu fans would be ecstatic if
the PAC 12 called(we won't), if they knew what a bcs bowl was like(they
don't), and if their biggest challenge was deciding how to spend the money
pouring inGo utes! The premier university in the state!