@joe5 the clippers stayed in the lottery because they drafted terrible...think
about it...the Spurs were built from the ground up...they drafted Duncan Parker
Ginobili...i know that not everyone can do what the spurs did...but it is worth
a try...because this is the only way we are going to be competitive...no free
agent superstar would come here anyway....so why not build it through the
draft...if burke leaves...i think neto is more than a capable insurance
@joe5The Clippers stayed in the lottery every year from drafting the wrong
guys and making the wrong moves, not because they tried to build through the
draft.Don't make comments without any knowledge they did not
let green or harden go elsewhere, they traded them both. They did not want to
give harden a max contract, and traded Green for a defensive presence (they won
that trade).I do see the Thunder winning the championship with their
current roster. They went to the championship 2 years ago and probably would
have this year if Westbrook didn't get hurt. Not only that but Durant is
only 24 years old, he hasn't even reached his prime!Why
don't the Jazz have time with Favors or Hayward? They are both young and
will be restricted free agents, they can't just sign elsewhere unless the
jazz refuse to match the offer. You also described the best possible situation
for the jazz in several years. Having too many good players that they
aren't able to pay them all and having to decide which ones to pay, that is
a situation every team in the NBA would WANT to be in.
I don`t see how three washed up players are going to help! I guess we will see!
No...not Carroll! If you wanted to show the young guys how a pro plays with
heart and determination, you do not lose Carroll. Wow!
Listen up everyone. I too am a little disappointed by millsap leavi.g and thethe
gs players we acquired. However, does no one remember that the Jazx offered
millsap a contract extension last season. Millsap declined. So millsap left the
Jazz. He wanted the bigger contract and knew that Favors and Kanter are the
future. The Jazz made a house visit to him. I may not like the moves, but heck,
its much better to see that the FO is doing something unlike the last 10 yrs.
Building through the draft takes time, just what the Jazz don't have with
Hayward and Favors. They will want more money or a chance to shine brighter.
After they leave, you're back where you started. So you continue rebuilding
but then Kanter and Burke leave.The Clippers drafted in the lottery
every year but their players bolted as soon as they could. After wasting 20
years rebuilding around draft choices, they changed their approach. Now they are
relevant.OKC built through the draft but eventually they had to pay
their stars so they let Green and Harden go elsewhere. How has that worked out.
I don't see them winning a championship with their current team, do you?Do you really believe the Jazz can still afford Favors, Hayward, Kanter,
Burke, and a 2014 stud four years from now? After 2-3 years rebuilding, some of
our guys will be gone. Just like Green and Harden, the Jazz will have to face
financial facts and let someone go. Even if it's not for the money,
somebody (think Harden) will want to have a brighter light on themselves instead
of being in the shadow of his teammates.
@joe5you already have a Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu
Ginobili...you always draft outside the lottery...and you expect Dennis Lindsey
to draft a superstar?....clearly...you would get players that would complement
the guys you consider as the anchor/core of your team...come on...be realistic
here...but i understand how you feel you are frustrated because the Jazz would
not be in the playoffs again next season...you do know that we really don't
get superstars via free agency...if we do get a player from free agency...they
become all-stars here because the opportunity is there (example: Carlos
Boozer)...i wont expect them to contend in the next 2-3 years...i am willing to
give Dennis Lindsey a chance...i think everyone deserves...Corbin however is
extending his chances...but i am willing to give him one more...even though i am
adamant about it
I can't wait to see the new young Jazz when the season begins. Do any of
you remember last season how often the Jazz starters would dig a hole and then
the bench would bring us back. That's one of the reasons I would get
frustrated with Corbin for not experimenting more with giving the core 4 more
minutes than they got. Some will argue that the Jazz bench would bring us back
against the other teams bench. Sometimes that was true but many times our bench
would outplay the other teams starters too. I'm not saying we will be real
good but someone here posted that the over under for Jazz wins would be 20
games. I would bet we win more than 20.
fortydam how do you know that they offered millsap what he was worth and he
bolted for more money? 1. they said they made no offer 2. they couldn't
offer him anything the first move they made was take golden states trash out at
a tune of 28 mil. for what expiring contracts next year so what they already had
7 this year. this is the year to sign players and get better. not sign another
teams trash and put it off for a year. they got a couple of draft picks whoopi
golden state has a good team so the draft picks will be low. be 4 or 5 years
before you even know what you got by then favors kanter gordon gone somewere
else just like williams, boozer matthews, manyard jefferson. millsap carroll.
this is two years after golden state tanked to get utah's pick in the
draft. now they reward them by taking out their trash to the tune of 28 mil so
they could sign a good player that the jazz should have been trying to
sign.everybody been hollering for the young guys they have been playing against
second teamers not exatly lighting it up
@joe5Did you not understand your own comment? You said take Duncan
and Parker off the spurs and what are they? Take the best players off any team
and what are they? Not very good!But I'll continue with your
new argument. You're right the Jazz do have to do it another way. They have
to build a team through the draft, which is exactly what they are doing and what
you are complaining about. No top free agent is going to sign here, but if
you're able to draft a star and put a quality team around them most will
stay. Garnett would have stayed in Minnesota if they were competitive, same with
lebron, yes there are those that leave either way such as Shaq who left a good
team.What you're arguing is the Jazz need to go sign players
like Brewer, Calderon, and Pekovic. How would they make the Jazz contenders? You
argue nobody wants to play for Utah, yet also argue the Jazz need to sign free
agentsHow do the Jazz not go for championships? They paid 3millon to
get Gobert, and go in the luxury if it means competing
I don't mind Big Al going. He would get triple teamed and he was still
going to try to take it up. I would have liked to see Milsap stay as you cannot
teach the work ethic he brings to the game.I do like how aggressive
Lindsay is being but your trades and drafts are only as good as your coach and
coaching staff!!!! I just do not have a lot of confidence in Ty in developing
I think the front office understands we have to be bad (for 2-3 years) before we
can get better; much better. Just making the playoffs isn't good enough
year after year. This team needs to build through the draft similar to the
Malone/Stockton era. Personally, I like the move to pick up future draft picks
to be added to our own. The cherry on top is having a whole bunch of cap space
again next year, and probably the year after that. I know one thing, I'm
happy to be in the position we are and prefer watching the young guns (Kanter,
Favors, Hayward, Burkes and Burke) play (win or not) than being a LA fan with no
foundation for the future.Way to go front office! I'm on board
and can see a plan being put into action!
sptfyre: You don't get it, do you. The Jazz are never going to have LeBron
and Wade or Jordan and Pippen. They won't get Kobe and Shaq and they
won't get Pierce and Garnett. The Jazz have to do it differently than other
teams. The reason those teams can do it is because of three things:-
Those teams are willing to spend over the cap.- Those locations are meccas
for free agents.- Role players flock to those teams at a discount for the
opportunity to play with premium players.And it ain't gonna
happen through the draft. Jordan was in his seventh season when he won his first
championship. LeBron was on his second team. Shaq was on his second team.
Garnett was on his second team.Those that won early in their careers
did so because they came into a team already loaded with star talent. Magic had
Kareem. Bird had McHale.The Jazz have to do it differently. It was
hard enough to get free agents when they were good. Who wants to play here now?
Nobody. Because the Jazz have established that they don't play for
Bye Paul, Bye Junkyard Dog! I'm way sad and will follow your careers.
Wishing you both much success except when you play back here against our Jazz.
Now let's get this next season rolling. I can't wait! I am in total
withdrawals.Go Jazzboys in '13/'14!!!
@joe5"You may think those guys are more than role players but,
honestly, how far do they get without Duncan and Parker? 1st round and out?"
How good is miami without lebron and wade? How may championships do
the bulls win without jordan and pippin? Take away shaw and kobe, and kobe and
gasol how good were the lakers? Take away the top players on any team and how
far do they get?Then you could add everyone of those free agents you
described and the jazz would still be mediocre at best, and mediocre at best for
multiple years as those guys would have multi year contracts. If you are fine
with a first round playoff loss every year then fine, overpay for average
players and remain mediocre, but if you want to be good you have to take
calculated risks. Having 3 expiring contracts sets them up with even more money
in next years free agency market which is better than this years crop. Not
signing jefferson or millsap gives the young guys a chance, they traded DWill
for them why not see what they've got?
sky2k1: Look back to late June and you'll see my ideas. I would target
proven contributors that are not 8-figure salaries.Post:1)
Toxic front-loaded offer to Pekovic. With Favors, Kanter, Pekovic, I'd
challenge anybody to score in the paint.2) Other options: Hickson, Landry,
Mosgov.Wings:1) Corey Brewer (defensive stopper with
dramatically improved offense) and/or OJ Mayo (scorer who defends).2)
Other options: Redick, Korver, Belinelli.3) Bench: Carroll (or take a shot
on a guy like Xavier Henry).PG (Burke starts; need veteran who can
log minutes when necessary):1) Calderon2) Other options: Devin
Harris, Udrih, even Robinson (gulp!).3) Emergency: Tinsley (more of a
coach than a player).Possible roster:Post: Favors, Kanter,
Pekovic, Gobert, EvansWings: Hayward, Burks, Brewer, Mayo, Marvin Williams
(injured)PG: Burke, Calderon, TinsleyThis team could compete
even though there is not a $10+M guy on the roster. They are much stronger
defensively than last year and could match last year's offense. I would
think this team would compete for home court in the playoffs.
I am shocked at the negative response from fans on here. The Warriors deal is a
win win. Even if all the of those players don't give you any production,
it's only one year. And you get 2 unprotected first round draft picks?! Are
you kidding me, that is awesome!! It hurts a little to lose millsap, but he
turned into a whiney diva and im not the least bit worried about losing
Jefferson. It does hurt to lose Carroll, he was my favorite player last year,
but the jazz future over all is so bright. They have tons of cap space, and
loads of young talent. There might be one bad year but it's not like they
have been good the last few years anyway. I just don't get the criticism of
some fans, I am nothing but giddy about the jazz future!!
@joe5Your list is mostly accurate, I would only argue that leonard
has a chance to be great, and splitter is a good post defender.And
you're absolutely right that he wasn't the GM and that he didn't
make the final calls, but he learned under a great GM and saw how to run/make a
team. Not only that, but I highly doubt it was RC Buford doing all the work
while the assistants followed, just taking notes. Lindsey and others were doing
work and scouting and helping buford make the decisions.I've
read your other posts and you have no good solutions to the jazz's problem.
We can't get top free agents like you've stated. So to get better we
have to do so through the draft. Drafting between 14-18 won't do that for
you these days. I am curious to know what you would have done if
you were GM of the Jazz. Who would you have signed/gone after?
Having Malone train the young bigs is fine but Malone would get whipped in
todays NBA. Of course we will wait to see the final outcome of the trades that
will play out over the next weeks but the Jazz need to win at some point. I can
see developing 2-3 players but bringing an entire NBA-d league team to other NBA
venues is a recipe for disaster.If not anything else this new young
team will develop a tendency to tolerate losing because that is all the
management has set them up for.
I'd like to leave a message for Demarre Carroll ---- hoping that he or one
of his friends will read this & share with him --- have to say many many
Jazz fans will miss you DC --- you showed heart, skill, and professionalism that
is so hard to find in any professional league nowadays.So sad to see
you go & play for another team, & hoping that someday you will be back
in SLC.It feels like a punch in the gut to hear you're leaving,
but we wish you all the best in whatever you do, wherever you go.You
are The Best. God bless you and keep you in the palm of His hand.--- Speaking for your many fans & friends here in the Intermountain
West.The DrVaya con Dios.
Man in Charge:First, I was responding to those who use
Lindsey's term of service with the Spurs as convincing evidence that he
will be the Jazz' savior. As you said, he was assistant GM and did not make
the final decisions but that doesn't seem to make a difference to those who
want to believe he knows what he is doing.Second: You may think
those guys are more than role players but, honestly, how far do they get without
Duncan and Parker? 1st round and out? They are fine players but not franchise
players. Every one of them will need to play with a star or two in order to win
joe5If you watched the NBA finals this year, you would know that
Kawhi Leonard, Danny Green, Gary Neal, and Cory Joseph are way more than role
players. You keep forgetting that the Spurs usually pick 30 and 60 in the draft
it's not like they are picking in the lottery. Secondly, the last I heard
RC Buford was the spurs GM while Lindsey was there. It's not like they
somehow turned everything over to Lindsey while he was there.
The Jazz need to tank this year. Getting Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker in this
draft can make the difference in getting to the playoffs or winning a
championship. Tanking works when you have a plan. Just ask OKC, Golden State or
Lots of ignorant fans acting like we dumped Millsap.Millsap was the
one who would not sign the extension. He would have gotten another year and
nearly as much money/ year (more in total) if he had re-signed with the Jazz.Now Millsap takes a bigger per year payday to go and play behind
Horford? If he plays along side him they will be the shortest front court in
the NBA.Atlanta is a stupid franchise too. Look no further than
what they overpaid for Korver. Colossal bad signing/deal. The dude can't
guard a fire hydrant or create his own shot.There is a reason
franchises are perennial losers. Those contracts and decisions have "name
desperation" all over them. We have to get someone with a name regardless
of whether the deal is bad or good seems to be their philosophy.Throw it against the wall and see what sticks.
Maybe Jerry Sloan knows something we don't. Jefferson and Milsap gone?
Unbelievable. Maybe it will work, but if not, then this team will flounder in
the basement for the next 5 years (building seasons). I'm still NOT
impressed with the front office and I never thought Corbin was or is the right
For all you Lindsey fans, here are the facts. The San Antonio Spurs won
championships in 1999, 2003, 2005, and 2007. Five days after winning their last
championship, they hired Dennis Lindsey. Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker,
and Matt Bonner were on that team. Over the next five years, the Spurs went out
of the playoffs in Conference Finals (carryover from the inherited players), 1st
round, 2nd round, 1st round, and Conference Finals (which was enough to get a
job with the Jazz.When he left the Spurs, they had the four players
mentioned above. Lindsey's acquisitions which were:- James
Anderson- DeJuan Blair- Derrick Byars- Eric Dawson-
Justin Dentmon- Boris Diaw- Ike Diogu- TJ Ford- Danny
Green- Stephen Jackson- Richard Jefferson- Corey Joseph-
Kawhi Leonard- Patrick Mills- Gary Neal- Tiago Splitter-
Malcolm ThomasI see only role players in that list. Not a single
blue chipper in the lot.Remember, the won a championship five days
before he was hired. They got to the Finals the season after he left. During his
five years, they struggled in the playoffs.Convince me why we should
have confidence if he architects the future of the Jazz.
Here's what we all need to remember. These players are not our best
friends. They don't owe us any loyalty. The bottom line is, they will
play where they are needed, and for the most money they can make. It's
called making a living. Granted, they make a ridiculous amount of money, but
they take what the market gives them. Wouldn't you? Let's support
the Jazz as a team, and not get so hung up on certain players. The NBA is a
business, and they entertain us with a game. That's it.
re: doc33 & forgetyourselfYou can tell Jerry & The
Anti-Chuck Barkley are back. Rather than go w/ a bunch of athletes in the
6'6" to 6'8" range, they are going back to the future again.
Tell me how did it work out w/ Deron W & Boozer. Golden St in
the Tim Hardaway/C Mullins era as wellas the Suns recently (Nash, Stoudemire,
etc...) were what make hoops enjoyable and entertaining.With the
Sloan philosophy, you might as well watch soccer or golf??
@scodyshootfight"We got two future first round picks from a franchise
that is notoriously bad without having to give anything up."Just
one problem... Golden State made the conference semifinals this past season and
arguably got better this year (since this salary dump was to free up space to
sign Igoudala). That 2014 pick will likely be around 20th barring an injury to
This will be an interesting season and it appears obvious that the front office
is already looking past next year. I believe that Favors and Hayward will have
expiring contracts as well. I don't expect Favors to stay. You never know
what the target venue really is. The key word here is "venue". Average
attendance was down by 1000 from the 19.9 capacity. That is the key issue here.
It is already obvious that Burke is a fan favorite. That is what the team needs
to build on. It is all about the intangible that Malone and Stockton brought. It
is called chemistry and you don't know what it is until you see it. The
Jazz have to look for it. It is elusive but it is there.
The Jazz need to trade Jefferson a 2017 first round pick to the Hawks for Josh
Smith and Jason Teague. Maybe they could do a sign and trade with the Hawks so
they can get Smith \Teague for at least 3-5 years. Or even trade Andris Biedrins
to the Rockets for Asik or send him to Portland for J.J. Hickson via sign an
trade. They may have to also throw in a second round pick for Hickson.
Some of the people on here posting that the jazz are the laughting stock of the
NBA. Just dont get the game anymore. It not about win just one title anymore it
about how many you can win in a row. And with the Jazz getting rid of Jefferson
and Paul. That free up the jazz in doing that. And building that. We have never
really done this. But look at the stockton/malone days. They built those days
up. Starting way back when they draft both of them. And it got us to back to
back finals and tha playoff ever year. That is what we are tring to get back to.
I am a fan that can deal with the growing pains for better years to come. Way to
go Jazz FO you final did what it take to really be a true froce in the NBA. That
why the spurs have those titles. We have that guy in our FO. GO JAZZ.
I'm not a fan of the "let's be awful for a few years while we let
the young guns grow into their roles. Look, the young guns have had an awful lot
of opportunity over the last couple of years and they've done well, but not
well enough to unseat Paul Milsap or Al Jefferson. Many things can go wrong when
you are putting all of your eggs in one basket. An injury, an attitude problem
or a player who has just flat out peaked at a very young age. We should have
retained either Milsap or Jefferson and in no way let a proven gamer like
DeMarre Carrol go.I sincrely doubt that his desire and passion for the game are
going to be matched by any of three "one and done" players. I'll
always pull for the Jazz, but losing your two best players and your bench player
with the biggest heart in one day is sort of a kick in the stomach. Oh well, all
you "dump Milsap and Jefferson and let the young 'un's be
stars" fans? The day is yours.
Contrary to what most people here are saying,this yet another phenomenal, smooth
move by Dennis Lyndsey. No one can argue that we were going NOWHERE with Big Al
and Millsap. I love Millsap, but he proved the last few years that he is not
valuable when he has to carry the load. His value was when he was on the bench,
but he sadly didn't want to be paid like a bench player.We now
get to play more talented bigs and finally develop them. We got two future
first round picks from a franchise that is notoriously bad without having to
give anything up. This is a stellar move and I'm so excited for this front
office that seems more willing to wheel and deal than we have been in the past.
It seems to me that the Jazz are embracing their true status as a AAA farm club
to the NBA's bigger market teams. I imagine David Stern (or rather his
replacement), and the league marketing folks are elated that they don't
have to worry about a Jazz playoff run and the resulting low TV ratings anytime
soon. Just keep developing those young players Jazz. New York,
Boston, Chicago, and LA will have roster holes to fill in 2016 and beyond.
Their scouts will be watching.
I don't see the negatives that some above see regarding next year. I have
no doubt that Malone will help Kanter some and Lindsay said in an interview that
Malone has already helped Favors a lot in just a few sessions together. Kanter
and Favors, along with Evans and Gobert, will do just fine next year. The front
line will be better defensively than last year, and I think the doubters will be
pleasantly surprised by the improvement in Kanter's jumpshot and
Favor's and Kanter's ever expanding offensive repetoire. Add in the
improvement of Hayward and Burk's offensive games and the high-motor,
determined Trey Burke and it's going to be fun. Good luck to two of the
best competitors Jazzland has ever seen in Millsap and Carroll. I thought they
would sign Carroll, too, Kakashi.
I know that Jazz fans aren't used to full-out rebuilding years because the
organization has never done it. But it would have been completely stupid to hold
on to either Big Al or Millsap. Either player would've demanded playing
time that would interfere with the development of the young bigs. Plus either
player could've gotten us a few more wins - which we *definitely*
don't want this year. We want to lose a lot this year in order to be in
position to snag a top pick in next year's loaded draft. With a nice pick
or two (thanks GS) and a few key free-agent pick-ups (we'll be stacked
again next year with cap space) we can be contending in a couple of years. If
the FO rebuilt like they usually do, we could expect to wallow in mediocrity for
many years and probably lose one or more of the young guns. This way of
rebuilding is a bit risky but should yield results *much* faster.I,
for one, will be attending more Jazz games this year and I won't be looking
for a win - just steady improvement from the fab-5.
The Jazz offered Sap what they thought he was worth, he walked for more money
and both he and Carroll are now overpaid. I would have liked both back, but
I'm tired of the Jazz over paying players. I trust in Lindsay, and if this
is how they did it for the Spurs, then we can only wait and see. If next years
draft is that good, then these moves make perfect sense. bigirish, did you
really want to see players walk to the rim around Jefferson for another season?
For every 10 points that guy scored he gave up 20. Like I've said in every
post, if they don't come up with a good floor general, it doesn't
matter who's coaching or playing. I think good teams are only as good as
their point guards. Good point guards can make bad players look good, and last
years miserable debacle was a direct result in Mo, and Watsons play. Tinsley did
the best he could for a ninety year old. If they are taking contracts that
expire to let the youth play, then at least get a good point guard to mentor the
Good job Jazz front office. You have officially put the jazz as the laughing
stock of the league for this coming season. Letting Jefferson and Millsap walk
is not acceptable. The players we got from Golden State are terrible. It is
always next year, next year, next year. How bout we win this year for once?
Man...its going to a rough 2-3 years...i'm ready for the wait...how bout
Wow....... Jazz fans this is new ground we are walking on, I don't know
what to think. No Millsap! I wish him the best he will be missed............Man
this is what most of us have been screaming for... PLAY THE YOUNG ONES!!! well
it will be interesting to say the least. I don't think the front office is
done though..... if so it might be a fun and sometimes scary run...... I
can't wait..... but man am I ever so scared......... But its just a game!
life goes on for the rest of us.
I live near Chicago and was introduced to Paul Millsap after a Bucks game. He was incredibly patient and kind. We must have talked for 15 minutes
and he signed items for each of my kids and some other families. he posed for
pictures and joked around with everyone. He was a true class act and a player I
am very sad to see go. Good luck Paul.
I don't get why we wouldn't want to keep our same bigs/Jefferson and
Milsap/ to keep the chemistry and let them build the younger guys. They've
done so much for us - I know, it's all about the money - and I don't
see how these Warrior acquisitions are going to help as well as J and M could
have. You want youth but you get inexperience too without them and Foye and Mo
to back them up.
I'll set the over/under for Jazz wins in 2013-14 at 20. Gonna be a brutal
This move really makes me wonder what is going on in the front office?Both
Milsap and Caroll wanted to stay and yet the Jazz did not want them?We
pick up Some players that are washed up and say we are giving the team to a
rookie?This will be a very interesting year.
I don't get Atlanta signing Millsap to ostensibly play alongside Hortford.
That is a small front line, and if the Hawks acquire Asik in a sign and trade
for Josh Smith, you got to move Millsap to the bench because he can't match
up with most small forwards, and this is the guy you just paid 9.5 million/
2yrs. For what? To sit on the bench? I don't get it.
I'm looking forward to Kanter, Favors and Hayward being the main go to guys
and seeing how they do. They should do well they're not rookies and they
have sufficient experience that they should be able to meet the challenge. I
think that is what the FO and coaches think too or they wouldn't be doing
what they're doing. I can live with a few more loses if I'm seeing
the young guns play well and improve. Next yrs free agents and draft are very
strong and we should be in a good position to take advantage of that fact.
To bad we couldn't get the Warriors coach in the trade. That would have
been a great deal!
i would have thought they would have re-signed carroll...that's a
bummer...but i do not understand the details of the 20M dollar salary cap
relief...is this because we took Biedrins and Jefferson?....dang....i guess
we'll see each other in the lottery next year