Comments about ‘Justice Department wants Christian home-schoolers deported in name of tolerance’

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Published: Thursday, July 4 2013 11:05 a.m. MDT

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Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

The first right that we, the people, demanded to see in writing before allowing the Constitution to be ratified was freedom from governmental interference in religion. That is the most important freedom that we have, given its placement in the Bill of Rights.

Is it any wonder that liberal judges would reject God and His preeminent place in our hearts and in our homes? Is it any wonder that liberal judges would destroy a family by denying them the right to worship God according to the dictates of their conscience and to teach their own children in their own home? Is it any wonder that liberal judges would send that family back to a country that teaches that we crawled out of the ooze and that the order found all around us has nothing to do with a creator or with a creation?

Not only are United States judges at fault, but those judges want to strip that family of its freedom and return the family to Germany.
Is it any wonder that Germany demands full compliance from its citizens - including how and what parents teach their children? Germany's history shows that war has taught it nothing about liberty.

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

Before we grant asylum from Germany (a ridiculous concept for all but Jimmy Carter) we need to explore the timeline for this family.
Just exactly what was their status upon arrival here? Tourists? Students? Work permit?
At what point did they seek asylum? My understanding is that they were here for a couple of years.
Then they were granted asylum.
Later the DOJ ruled that fleeing home school rules in Germany is not a cause to grant asylum.
With all the dangerous places around the world and the limited number of asylum and refugee visas, it seems foolish to grant one to this family.
We see pity pieces in the newspaper all the time of a family from Mexico or Argentina who cannot go home for fear of being killed on their return.
And yet we are sending missionaries there and building temples in those countries. Get real.

Yankee
Poughkeepsie, NY

It is amazing to me that we are watching the government sit idly by as illegals surge through this country to avail themselves of the fiscal benefits; but law abiding practicing Christians who actually applied for residency are now being rejected by bureaucrats. This is Isaiah 5:20-21 in action.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

That deferred action thing some of you have mentioned that protects illegal immigrants from being deported... that only applies to Dreamers (specifically children brought here at a young age) so it would only apply to the children of the German family, not the parents. It's not a race/ethnicity thing.

Secondly, Obama has deported more illegal immigrants any other previous president (if we look at single terms, obviously 8 years of Bush deported more than 5 years of Obama but Obama's first term deported more than any other term).

A lot of you sure like complaining about Hispanic illegal immigrants but are just fine with this white illegal immigrant family...

jthompson
Austin, TX

I've lived in Germany and while I don't necessarily agree with their homeschooling law I can understand why they have it. First, by and large Germans really are an orderly, rule-following society. They are also more willing than Americans to sacrifice some freedoms for the good of society. And finally, they are definitely scarred by their Nazi past and are determined to break from it. With those things in mind:

1. Germans think children should be taught by certified, qualified teachers. The idea of a possibly uneducated parent being responsible for a child's successful education is rather ridiculous to them. (While some people may do a good job, other won't.)

2. Germans are leery of people who want to separate their children from the mainstream culture. The DOJ did a good job explaining the German mentality on this.

2. Similarly, while some commenters criticized the Germans' desire to suppress "parallel societies," the reality is that Germans are concerned that homeschooled children could be taught neo-Nazi and other beliefs that will perpetuate dangerous cultural mindsets.

In sum: don't judge another country based solely on your own mindsets. And--this article's headline is ridiculous.

Chachi
Charlottesville, VA

Switzerland isn't part of the European Union. (See final paragraph of the article.)

Kings Court
Alpine, UT

So now the United States needs to start granting political asylum to those who want to home school their children? I'm sorry, but that does not and should not meet the threshold for granting political asylum. If we start granting asylum to anyone who must follow the laws of their own respective countries, we will end up with billions of immigrants taking advantage of that.

Shazandra
Bakersfield, CA

All seriousness aside, how many of the commentors here were public-school educated? I'll make a guess:

99% of the long-winded, run-on paragrapher posts were undoubtedly educated in our inglorious public schools. Few properly educated home-schoolers forget their grammar.

(FYI): I don't bother reading the posts that are one long run-on slew of non-paragraph-indented sentences. Why try to follow the thinking of a confused mind, untrained in logically relaying their ideas? And yes, both my parents were public school teachers and administrators, exceptional ones.

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@jthompson

You said – “First, by and large Germans really are an orderly, rule-following society. They are also more willing than Americans to sacrifice some freedoms for the good of society.”

And what exact freedoms are we talking about here?

You said – “Germans think children should be taught by certified, qualified teachers. The idea of a possibly uneducated parent being responsible for a child's successful education is rather ridiculous to them. (While some people may do a good job, other won't.)”

Many say the same thing here in U.S. that parents who home school their kids are mentally ill lunatics.

You said – “Similarly, while some commentators criticized the Germans' desire to suppress "parallel societies," the reality is that Germans are concerned that home schooled children could be taught neo-Nazi and other beliefs that will perpetuate dangerous cultural mindsets.”

If you look through many of the comments on this board, it is obvious many think the same thing here that the only people who home school their children are ultra right-wing religious fanatics who want to teach their kids hatred.

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

We homeschool. My kids learn all about science, chemistry, math, etc. So do all of the other homeschoolers we associate with. My 14 year old is on track to have an Associate's from BYU Idaho before he is 18.

Public schools exist purely to indoctrinate children. They began during the industrial revolution as a way to teach kids the skills needed to work in the factories. Before that, the parents in the community hired the teashers. Now, the public school systems indoctrinate kids into a far-left ideaology (no God, "tolerance", state is the ultimate authority, etc). Common Core is designed to undermine anything parents are teaching their children, especially about God. We pulled our children because we want them to learn Truth for themselves, not a political ideaology disguided as truth.

Those who blindly send their children to school thinking they will let someone else teach their children will get just that - a child immersed in extreme left idealogy and a disrespect of parental authority.

BTW - I was a lifelong Democrat until that party deserted me over the last 2 years.....

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Shazandra
"Few properly educated home-schoolers forget their grammar."

One could make any demographic look good educationally by adding the term "properly educated" as an adjective and a filter.

Lightbearer
Brigham City, UT

So some of you want to home-school your children to protect them from "liberal propaganda." But who will protect them from conservative propaganda?

If all the illegals "surging" through this country could prove that they can't home-school their children in their native lands, then I suppose you would stop insisting that they be deported.

Children learn enough about God in Sunday school and (for example) seminary. Sunday and seminary were certainly enough for me - more than enough to last a lifetime, in fact. Children need real science in school. They don't need religion masquerading as science.

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

“The goal in Germany is for an 'open, pluralistic society.' Teaching tolerance to children of all backgrounds helps to develop the ability to interact as a fully functioning citizen of Germany."

And what is their definition of “tolerance” exactly? What is their definition of a “fully functioning citizen”?

And suppose the schools in Germany feel a certain student is not tolerant enough or not a fully functioning citizen? Do they take the child away from its parents until they are deemed properly tolerant and fully functioning? And who makes those rules exactly?

It sounds like Germany is following the words of MSNBC commentator Melissa Harris-Perry who said:

"We have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to whole communities.”

Shazandra
Bakersfield, CA

Grammar (Webster):
#1- "The study of the way the sentences of a language are constructed; morphology and syntax."
#3- "A set o rules accounting for these constructions.
#4- "Generative Geammar- A device, as a body of rules, whose output is a body of all those sentences that are permissable in a given language, while excluding all those that are not".

@atl134- I majored in languages and literature; studied Spanish, German and Hebrew; teach Spanish Evangelism to Gringos and Biblical Hebrew to my community. No one ever surpasses the homeschoolers in any of my classes, ages 8-82. These kids will learn the Hebrew alphabet in 1 week and be ready for grammar and vocab the next... while the professionals, administrators and "degreed" instructors labor on.

Back to the issue. I say shame on The 4th Reich for disallowing freedom, again. Period, end of subject.

@Lightbearer- Your screen moniker is an oxymoron to your opinions. You can raise your offspring with any truism you wish. Stop telling "religious" folk what "science" should be to them. If you can keep your Science God, why disallow others to keep their own defined God?

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

At what point in a person’s life does an American citizen does a child obtain the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that goes along with freedom of religion. We accept that adults have those rights and that the government has the power and authority to secure those rights to us.

We also accept that children because of their inadequate knowledge and experience cannot have those freedoms and rights. And we also accept the notion that children are to be regarded as the private property of their parents who have nearly unlimited rights to influence, mold, control and decide every matter of the child.

In America we try to balance the problem of rights, with mixed results. We need a lot more discussion.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:Redwings

I'm surprised so many parents in UT find the schools there are teaching "far-left, no-God" ideology. My, how things have changed from when I grew up there. Shockingly, even when I lived in UT many years ago, prayer was not said at school, and parents didn't have a problem with that policy.

On the other hand, I raised my kids outside of UT. They received excellent educations consisting of plain-vanilla subjects like math, literature, history, etc. they also attended Church and seminary. There was no "anti-God" agenda. If, unknown to me there was, it didn't "work" on my kids. The majority of kids (for better or worse) end up adhering to the values taught/experienced at home.

Shazandra
Bakersfield, CA

Au contraire, dear Bearer of Dark Light, Black Holes and Hoaxes. If there is one true Creator and God of all, then children need to hear all about the true God in church. They don't need science masquerading as religion in public venues. They don't need the world vying for control of their minds, money and morality.

Dear Darwin told the world that his theory was just that. But the godless exalted one man's opinions, calculations and observations to deification. It has been roundly trumped and thoroughly discredited by both godless and religious scientists subsequently. Your Science God neither tells us the absolute, undeniable way or age of the universe. The scientists still search, argue, hypothesize. Study the rapid changes in astronomy theories just since Hubble and WISE started shocking the scholars with their deeper universe data.

Eventually man discards the Earth-as-Universe's-Center for more solid "science". But science is what? Yeah, man's attempt to discover and define the incoming data. Your gods are no more elevated than another's. Just try selling your values to a Talibani.

Tami
Herriman, UT

So, a family can illegally come to our country and then we don't want to deport them because we don't want to break up their family but this family can be broken up and we don't care?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Shazandra
"I say shame on The 4th Reich for disallowing freedom, again. "

I guess along with your majors you also minored in hyperbole.

"Dear Darwin told the world that his theory was just that."

The linguist doesn't understand the scientific definition of theory?

CTM
SAN ANTONIO, TX

This is a non-story for most of the country. Only the Deseret News, with it's constant stream of stories of religious freedom erosion would be petty enough to print it under a scare headline. Nobody's religious freedom is being abridged in this case. The family was granted asylum, then on further investigation the decision was reversed, and for sound, legal reasons. End of story. I check the DN site for news of my church and to keep up on news from home. More and more I see articles trumpeting "religious discrimination" or "this famous person joined the Church and isn't that cool" as opposed to local Utah news or stories of substance. Come on, Deseret News--aren't you better than that?

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