Comments about ‘Gay marriage: What's next for Utah?’

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Published: Wednesday, July 3 2013 5:30 p.m. MDT

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Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

@cjf --

"There is a distinction and you know it (and it is very obvious), but since it weakens your position, which is to force in mind, thought, and conscience the gay lifestyle, you won't admit it."

I don't believe any such thing.

Do you really think that a wedding cake baker would be legally allowed to refuse services to an interracial couple getting married?

Seriously??

@edgeoftheabyss --

"For evidence, refer to a sampling of the California legislative history:..."

I'm not going to take the time to look it up, but I strongly suspect that they would have had a similar spate of legislation around the time that the Civil Rights Act came along, back in the 60s. It takes a lot of little detail-type laws to cover all the basis when one is trying to wipe out institutionalized bigotry.

@Imabeliever --

"God said homosexuality equals destruction. Case closed."

According to you. But many Christians disagree with you.

Doc1895
Chassell, MA

The Homosexual Agenda is not about seeking equal rights, but more about gaining social acceptance and special privilege for a perverse lifestyle.
It has been said, “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. When you tell the truth about homosexuality today, you can be sure that the central tools of deceit, disinformation, name-calling and bullying will be unleashed."

Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

@Doc1895 --

"The Homosexual Agenda is not about seeking equal rights, but more about gaining social acceptance and special privilege for a perverse lifestyle."

Who is harmed by a committed, loving relationship between two gay people? Please be specific.

And just who, exactly, gave you the authority to determine what qualifies as "perverse" for the rest of the world?

"It has been said, “In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. When you tell the truth about homosexuality today, you can be sure that the central tools of deceit, disinformation, name-calling and bullying will be unleashed.""

Yeah, that was said by Frank Turek (he stole the first part of that quote from George Orwell). His degree is from Southern Evangelical Seminary -- which should give you a clue about where he's coming from.

The problem is that he completely neglects the actual facts of the issue.

So, please, Doc. Let us all know what "deceit and disinformation" has been spread by those who support equal rights. Please be specific.

But while you're doing that, please also remember that many Christians SUPPORT gay marriage.

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

re: "The Homosexual Agenda is not about seeking equal rights, but more about gaining social acceptance and special privilege for a perverse lifestyle.."

What, paying the mortgage, watering the lawn, taking the kids to baseball practice, planting flowers in the backyard, are considered a "perverse lifestyle"? Or do you mean engaging in the same EXACT practices opposite sex couples engage in for a variety of reasons?
So, to be clear, health care benefits, right to make end of life decisions/hospital visitation, social security/pension benefits for a loved one are a special privilege?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Phillip M Hotchkiss
"When it is divided we will see witch divided us more slavery or Gay marriage."

Roughly 70% of the under-30 demographic support same-sex marriage. Generationally it's going to be effectively one-sided. Regardless, considering we fought a civil war over slavery and states rights, I don't see gay marriage ever leading to anything near that level.

@Doc1895
"The Homosexual Agenda is not about seeking equal rights, but more about gaining social acceptance and special privilege for a perverse lifestyle."

Special privilege? What are they getting that opposite-sex couples aren't getting?

Ranch
Here, UT

"Bishop Wester said he doesn't know what recourse there is to preserve traditional marriage other than to continue to engage public conversation and debate to "make our case.""

---

Traditional marriage will continue to be traditional marriage. Same sex couples being able to marry doesn't change any of that.

Ranch
Here, UT

@Vladhagen;

Is the LDS Church currently forced to marry non-worthy Mormons in their temples? Are they required to marry non-Mormons in them?

No?

Why would they then be forced to even perform a same-sex wedding?

Do you guys ever stop to think about what it is you're afraid of? If they can't be forced to marry your unworthy MORMONS, they certainly won't be forced to marry gays and lesbians.

@very concerned;

Have you even tried praying about the issue yet? You seem so certain that you are correct. If god acts like modern Christians I would rather be in hell anyway.

@Sharonna;

Practice your beliefs if you want. Keep your beliefs out of civil laws though.

@many of you;

LGBT Americans sharing the word marriage isn't going to kill you, nor will it change your own marriages - only you have control over that.

@cjf;

No, there is no difference between the wedding of a gay couple vs a straight couple. If you are in business, why ever would you pass moral judgement on your customers? It is not only stupid, it's bad for business.

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

If the majority of the country really knew what gay men do with each other, there would not be this great increase of support for gay rights.

Doc 1895 is right - this is all about acceptance and approval of a perverse lifestyle.

Why doesn't the media present the stories of the thousands and thousands of "gay" men who have changed their lives and now live in happy, heterosexual relationships and have children?

Matthew 10:34-37:

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own bhousehold.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Inis Magrath
Fort Kent Mills, ME

Article: "Marriage is something, in our belief system, that is divinely given to us by God. It's found in sacred scripture." said the Catholic Bishop.

BUT... Catholics don't get to dictate what secular law is. Neither do Mormons.

Contrariusiest
mid-state, TN

@RedWings --

"If the majority of the country really knew what gay men do with each other, there would not be this great increase of support for gay rights."

Many heterosexuals enjoy the very same activities that homosexuals do. That hasn't turned anyone away from heterosexual rights. ;-)

"Why doesn't the media present the stories of the thousands and thousands of "gay" men who have changed their lives..."

Perhaps because they don't actually exist.

I can trump your Bible quote with better ones:

"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:37-40

"If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47

"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?" James 4:12

sharrona
layton, UT

@Contrariusiest" It is NOT our job to do the judging now. Context,(Jesus) Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly."(John 7:24)And see(Mt 7:16).

RE: this passage doesn't mention homosexuality. (Gal 5:21)and the like=(homoios G, similar)i.e.. Jude the brother of Jesus, "other flesh"; meaning not other women besides their own wives, but men; unnatural sin, which, from these people, is called sodomy; contrary to the light of nature and law of God, dishonorable to human nature, . ( Gill’s Commentary on Jude 1:7)

(Peter).”our dear brother Paul also wrote you with “the wisdom that God gave him.” He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2Peter 3:15-16)

Paul the( Apostolos,G) one sent forth with orders specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ.

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

re: "If the majority of the country really knew what gay men do with each other, there would not be this great increase of support for gay rights.
Doc 1895 is right - this is all about acceptance and approval of a perverse lifestyle."

This raises the issue of Animus.
Definition of Animus: hostility; ill will; strong dislike; hate.

Justice Kennedy explained that laws based on animus against gays and lesbians and animus against a group is never a legitimate purpose sufficient to justify discrimination.

Animus may not work anymore, perhaps its time to come up with a new argument.

Marco Luxe
Los Angeles, CA

Does anyone else see the irony in Doc 1895's comment "When you tell the truth about homosexuality today, you can be sure that the central tools of deceit, disinformation, name-calling and bullying will be unleashed."

I'm referring to the Gathering Storm TV ads and similar misinformation that seem so paranoid and deceitful now.

It seems like he's right about the use of disinformation etc, but not for the reasons he thinks.

jrp7sen
Logan, UT

As a gay youth attending BYU-I I wish them luck. These feelings are real and raw and marriage to the love of my life is happiness for me. No one else can tell me what makes me happy. I know God understands and it is not my fellow Mormons' place to get in the way of other people's business and love. I hope for one day to get married in Utah to my boyfriend. And no, this is not wrong, sick or immoral, so please stop trying to divide families.

Where love is, so is God.

zoar63
Mesa, AZ

@Phillip M Hotchkiss


"This topic is dividing country faster then any other disputes in history.It is sad .but I see no way out of it. We all have a right to stand up for what we believe is right.I respect all who stand up for their rights. Even if it goes against my rights. I have no respect for fence sitters who will not say anything out of fear. We do live in scarry Times. But to bury to your head in the ground until the conflict is over is wrong."

The last time the country was this divided, a Civil War broke out.

Top 5 causes of the first civil war
1.Economic and social differences between the North and the South
2. States versus federal rights
3.The fight between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.
4.Growth of the Abolition Movement
5.The election of Abraham Lincoln.

Can we see the parallels here? We do live in scary times.

Just the Facts, Mam!
Meridian, ID

Policy makers in Washington need to get out of defining marriage altogether. Straight 10% tax across the board! Equal justice for all!

Marriage should be left to the churches. There shouldn't be any laws based on marital status. If a person wants to practice homosexuality and marry who he/she loves, go ahead! Find a church that supports your right of conscience and have away at all the marriage vows you want. Just don't make me watch you on TV or look at you in the news! I don't want to know! I don't give a flying crap! I expect the same from you! I want to be left alone to marry who I want and do what I want to do within the walls of my church and my own home.

What the heck is the government doing defining a person's choices in the first place. This is America! If they can now define marriage between a man and a woman then what is stopping them from defining marriage between a man and a tree? Don't get me wrong, I love trees and all...

Ranch
Here, UT

@RedWings;

What has what goes on in the bedroom got to do with marriage equality? Answer: Nothing.

The real "perverse" people are the ones who spend all their time thinking about what goes on in someone elses bedroom. Now thats truly "perverse".

No H8 - Celebrate
Salt Lake, UT

re: "Marriage should be left to the churches. There shouldn't be any laws based on marital status."

How would divorce, alimony, child support/visitation and division of assets be handled by the theocracy in your proposed scenario? Marriage is currently legal contract with governed by family law.

Bob K
porland, OR

I read a few dozen of the comments, and was surprised (sorry) to find half or more to be rather enlightened, even though mainly conservative people read the DN.
Interesting: a catholic bishop is quoted (no lds representatives). Not everyone is aware that the Proposition 8 situation, which some feel hurt the mormon church badly, was created by bishop Cordileone, who had been transferred to CA from Utah.
A few people raised the ridiculous specious argument that lds temples would be forced by the Federal Government to marry Gay couples --- Let's note that 46 yrs after Loving vs VA, churches do not have to marry interracial couples (or anyone) who are not members.

And can we get to the heart of the fight? Some churches, such as lds and catholic, have marriage and procreation as core elements. The PROBLEM: what to do if the sons and daughters of members want to wed the same sex? Catholics have a history of ignoring what their church wants, but lds do not.
I think lds children will be happier and serve God better in the church, but the day of twisting arms to marry heterosexually is behind us, and should be.

VA Saint
Chester, VA

@Contrarius -- interesting that you would bring in Ancient Greece and Rome. The older men would 'groom' male children in the ways of the world, so to speak, and take them on as sexual proteges. That sounds to me more like pedophilia.

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