Comments about ‘Gay marriage: What's next for Utah?’

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Published: Wednesday, July 3 2013 5:30 p.m. MDT

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Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Never say never, but they're going to have to be patient.

From Ted's Head
Orem, UT

The process is working...a group of people want to make changes to the way our country and state govern and are going through proper channels. While my religious beliefs include the notion that marriage is between a man and a woman, I've been bothered by the overreaction by some folks who are wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth about the recent Supreme Court rulings. I'm sure they truly believe that gay marriage will result in more negative consequences than good ones and are trying to do their part to keep America strong. Personally, I hope that the more people wake up and become part of the process and engage in dialogue with those who see things differently. The risk I see (especially in Utah) is the polarization and subsequent demonization of those who view things differently than we do. I don't think it comes naturally to most of us, the ability to remain civil and calm when discussing matters of great importance, yet for those who are against gay marriage based on their religious beliefs, I would think that it's more important to behave well than to "win" this particular battle.

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

Good on them. While nearly everyone on both sides of the aisle recognize this is no longer a matter of "if" but a matter of "when", those of us fighting for equality cannot allow ourselves to be lulled into complacency by recent victories. We need to press forward steadfastly until SSM is the law of the land. Justice delayed is justice denied.

The Big One
Salt Lake City, UT

So sweet, that is our future in the picture what a handsome couple

first2third
Elmo, UT

Reading Kenedy's reasoning in his DOMA decision and assuming the court stays the same... Then Utah will have to recognize out of state marriages BUT the state can not be forced to preform such marriages. That looks to be the legal precedent at this point but again that is assuming the current court make up stays ideologically the same.

Now you can all argue about what is right or wrong but that's the legal precedent.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

Gay marriage *will* eventually come to all the states -- unless there is a revolution and we end up as a theocracy somehow.

The real question is how long that progression is going to take. IMHO it will take more than 10 years to reach all the states. We shall see.

Henry Drummond
San Jose, CA

I suspect we will see a ruling similar to Loving v Virginia in two to three years. Thirteen states, the District of Columbia, and five Indian Tribes already allow same-sex marriage. Public opinion has changed in favor of allowing such marriages. Its time to let bygones be bygones don't you think?

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

what a pathetic commentary on our state and country as we get ready to celebrate our founding and proclaim our pride in being a free people that such a large segment of our society still believes it is alright to treat others as second class citizens. We ail never be truly free as long as we continue to codify discrimination.

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Article: "The Most Rev. John C. Wester, bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City, said the judicial system or government really can't adjudicate or legislate what marriage is. 'Marriage is something, in our belief system, that is divinely given to us by God. It's found in sacred scripture. It's found in natural law,' he said, days after the Supreme Court issued its decisions."

Government can and does define what marriage is. That's what they do. There is an entire section of the Utah Code on family law.

[Of course, legislatures have defined the level of the Great Salt Lake and the value of pi, too, but that doesn't mean that nature always obeys.]

The first twelve states were relatively easy victories. I predict five more in the next three years, barring another landmark SCOTUS decision. Legalizing gay marriage in those states with constitutional amendments will a bit take longer. I say ten more states in ten years and all by 2040, barring another landmark SCOTUS decision. With any luck it will go faster.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@From Ted's Head --

"While my religious beliefs include the notion that marriage is between a man and a woman, I've been bothered by the overreaction by some folks who are wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth about the recent Supreme Court rulings. I'm sure they truly believe that gay marriage will result in more negative consequences than good ones and are trying to do their part to keep America strong. Personally, I hope that the more people wake up and become part of the process and engage in dialogue with those who see things differently."

Good for you, Ted. You do credit to your religion and your community.

very concerned
Sandy, UT

I tire of the same arguments going back and forth over gay marriage. Yet, I feel compelled to continue to defend marriage between a man and a woman. When Christians act with charity and speak in a civil way, exercising their rights peaceably or by the vote, then the argument that Christians are trying to force their beliefs on everyone else is simply not true. We champion heterosexual marriage as a fundamental foundation to a healthy and happy society.

First, marriage between a man and a woman has stood the test of time throughout history, the good and bad of it. It is only a recent phenomenon that liberal judges have moved ever closer to legalizing gay marriage everywhere in this democracy.

Second, I view it as the Christian community (and other religions) being pressured as much as the other way around. It is not just Christians who believe in heterosexual marriage. Other major religions do as well. Their beliefs are at risk as well. Unfortunately, there are many churches who have given up on some major tenets of their own religion.

LRenayHawk
La Vegrne, TN

Live and let live already. Traditional marriage is NOT threatened in anyway shape or form. Traditional is never going away as long as there are heterosexual men and women that exist. Marriage is serious business for both heterosexual and homosexual couples. Marriage means commitment & monogamy; there are people in this world both gay and straight that have an 'issue' or two with the maturity it takes to enter into the institution of marriage. A couple should not be expelled or forced to leave their home, family, friends, etc. just to get married and live happily. Utah is not 'holier than thou' no matter how much the state wants to be; we live in a democracy not a theocracy. We live free or at the very least try to. There is only one true judge and that is Heavenly Father and only He can say. We are mortal and imperfect and learn with accountability, responsibility, humility and humanity. Gays and lesbians are going to be allowed to marry. It's time to deal with it sensibly and sanely.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@very concerned --

" It is only a recent phenomenon... "

This is not actually true.

In fact, same-sex unions have been recognized at points throughout history. The Mesopotamians recognized same-sex unions, as did the Assyrians. The Greeks and Romans both encouraged homosexual relations. Same-sex unions occurred in the Orient, in native American cultures, basically all over the world.

Gay marriage does NOT threaten straight marriages in any way. Straight marriages always have been, and always will be, the vast majority of marriages -- simply because straight people make up the vast majority of the population. Nothing is going to change that, so it's pointless for folks to waste all this time and energy on meaningless hysteria.

"the Christian community (and other religions) being pressured as much as the other way around."

Many Christians, and people of other religions, already SUPPORT gay marriage. Many denominations are already happy to perform gay marriages in their churches. And you have absolutely NO right to declare that their view of their religion is any less valid than yours.

This is NOT a pro-religion vs. anti-religion issue, no matter how hard some people may try to paint it as such.

DanO
Mission Viejo, CA

first2third, many people construed Kennedy's ruling the way you did, but it's not necessarily so. The way I took it is when a state expands marriage rights, the Federal Government must recognize those marriages. However, state laws regarding marriage are still subject to the US Constitutional guarantees of equal protection under the law. Kennedy mentioned states, but the DOMA decision was based on the 5th Amendment guarantees of equal liberty. The court's finding was that DOMA was passed due to animus towards gay and lesbian individuals. I know doubt they will draw the same conclusion when they finally rule on a case regarding a State amendment.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Contrarius, This is NOT a pro-religion vs. anti-religion issue, no matter how hard some people may try to paint it as such.

For Bible believing Christians, morality is not determined by political considerations, majority votes, or polls. God’s word alone determines what we believe, teach and confess and practice. A Christian must always stand up for the truth of God’s Word, whether or not it is politically correct. If God has spoken on the issue the matter is settled! If God has not determined that something is wright or wrong, people can have an honest and peaceful difference of opinion. We are to pray for the country and respect and obey the law.

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

"Bishop Wester said he doesn't know what recourse there is to preserve traditional marriage other than to continue to engage public conversation and debate to "make our case."

Bishop Wester's and others who think similarly about SSM have made their case. They have expressed what they believe, their fears, and whole bunch on unconstitutional statements basing discrimination on their religious beliefs.

They don't want conversation and debate, they want to continue with a status quo that make children of God second class citizens in our society.

I will pray for this young couple who dares to go against the stablishment. They will be remembered in Utah as true heroes.

Pragmatic
Salt Lake City, UT

Wow! The comments are very telling. In a newspaper that is read predominately by conservative LDS persons, there seems to be a sense of inevitability with respect to gay marriage. For the first time I am starting to believe it as well! Therefore let's replace hysteria with empathy, love and understanding and see what that can do for our community. I bet it will be nice.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@sharrona --

"For Bible believing Christians, morality is not determined by political considerations...."

And many "Bible believing Christians" SUPPORT gay marriage. They see no conflict between the Bible and equal rights for homosexuals.

"A Christian must always stand up for the truth of God’s Word"

Fortunately, "the truth" as those supportive Christians see it is every bit as valid as "the truth" as YOU see it.

Here's just a coupla quick Bible quotes, to remind you again about what "God's Word" actually says:

"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:37-40

"If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world." John 12:47

"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you -- who are you to judge your neighbor?" James 4:12

Laura Ann
Layton, UT

Many times people say that Jesus didn't say anything negative about homosexuality, but he did in Matt. 15:19. (He also pointed out other sins.) As I believe in the Bible, I can never condone gay marriage. Obviously, this is a religious point of view. I don't separate one from the other in this life. To me, it is extremely arrogant to tell God what the rules are. If, on the other hand, you do not believe in the Bible or in Jesus, we can argue this in a continual circle. We will never convince the other that what they believe is right. I worry greatly about the affect this will have on children. I know people will say the children raised by gay couples can grow up and be happy, but I just can't believe it. I taught school for too many years. A child without a mother or father is like a canoe with only one paddle on one side of the boat. Turning forever in a circle. Two mothers or fathers can't make up for this, in my opinion. Possibly the canoe or boat will just turn faster.

Californian#1@94131
San Francisco, CA

-- I think if it were up to the electorate in Utah, it would not go that way," Bishop Wester said. --

Bishop Wester, it won't be up to the electorate. The California electorate thought it would be, but the governor and attorney general put their personal biases ahead of what the voters decided, and refused to defend Prop. 8 in court. Since American law has always guaranteed everyone the right to an attorney, private parties tried to take over the defense of this voter-approved law. In ruling that these private parties did not have legal standing to take the case, the Supreme Court said that the people of California were not entitled to a legal defense for the law they approved.

This is about more than "gay marriage." It's about whether or not any American in any state who votes for any law is entitled to have his/her public officials uphold that law, and if they refuse to, whether someone else can provide a voice for the voter. This Supreme Court decision tells us the answer.

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