"Snowden apparently sees himself as a loyalist to human rights and
principles of openness above nationality. It’s a new sort of dissident; a
type of fanatic that, like all forms of fanaticism, ignores larger loyalties and
rejects imperfections that would compromise ideals.It seems to be a
form of narcissism, or self-actualization writ large."Or perhaps
he is a man who is willing to stand, to sacrifice for truth. Novel idea in
today's culture. He informs us that we're being spied on, the
government makes excuses, we, apathetic citizens, roll over. Now, a columnist
calls him a narcissist? What's wrong with this picture is that most
don't know what's wrong with this picture.
@2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UTI don't like the PatriotAct
either, but that doesn't make what he did "Legal" or
"Heroic".11:30 a.m. July 3, 2013======== So, You are perfecting fine having our Constitutional rights
trampled?You see - This is my #1 pet peeves with Conservatives
who SAY they love the Constitution.They are the first in line to roll over
and trample it if it suits their agenda.Right vs. Wrong.It's a matter of Honesty and Integrity to be consistent.
Why would anyone take any information to the us media? They are complicit.
I am really scared to be honest. Scared for the future. It shocks me to realize
that the priviliged american people, who always shout loudly about their freedom
and their rights and how they are the best country in the world, DO NOT CARE
that their freedom is slowly being taken away from them. When someone points
this out to them, showing them how their government spy on them, they not only
do not care - they call him a traitor! If you honestly believe what
your government is doing is justifiable, then maybe you deserve what will come
to you. Your rights, your very freedom to act according to your conscience will
be taken from you, on the grounds that it serves "a greater good",
"a higher purpose..." It is shocking that it seems so few
have learned their lessons from high school literature. Have none of you read
1984, seen V for Vendetta, or even just look around in the world, or the history
of the world to see what happens in societies where one is not free to think or
speak as one wishes. .... cont.
@LDS LiberalYes... I still trust our courts and our laws. Don't you?
I thought you wanted the TeaParty people to trust the government! But you
don't?I think he can get a fair trial by a jury of his peers
(the people, not the government). IF he thinks he's innocent... He should
come back and face that jury.@LoganPalmer, AKComparing
Snowden to the founding fathers.. the Statue of Liberty... give it a break!The founding fathers DID betray England, but they DIDN'T ask
England to take them in and treat them like heroes. They knew if they were
caught they would be killed. The founding fathers betrayed their
King to create a new nation. Snowden is NOT creating a new nation. He just
exposed our security procedures to China and Russia! That's NOT a hero in
my book.youre bending over backwards to make him a hero, but
overlooking the 800lb gorilla in the room (he took our secrets to the Russians
and the Chinese not the US media).I don't like the PatriotAct
either, but that doesn't make what he did "Legal" or
I have mixed feelings about the larger "privacy vs. national security vs.
whistleblowers" issue. On one hand, I have both concern and outrage over
the Orwellian overreach, the general lack of accountability, and the disregard
for the privacy rights of law-abiding U.S. citizens by the U.S. intelligence
community, all in the name of national security. On the other hand, I recognize
that there is a fine line between "whistleblowing" and outright
espionage, and I have a problem with anyone, even whistleblowers with the purest
intent, recklessly endangering the lives of intelligence personnel who are
engaged in legitimate national security operations, or creating obvious and
difficult-to-remedy national security vulnerabilities, through their
"leaks". I am becoming increasingly convinced that Edward
Snowden’s intentions and motives have been less-than-pure; I am certainly
open to evidence to the contrary, but I am pretty skeptical right now. Either
way, I don’t see this ending well for Snowden.
Apparently it's more important to focus on Snowden than on what he
revealed. Thanks so much for being just another TMZ, Deseret News.
SEYSandy, UTLDS Liberal: I agree with what you say. But
I'm confused. Every time I defend Snowden, I'm called a right-winger.
I'm pretty sure I'm not. Are you experiencing the same thing?
What's that all about?6:54 p.m. July 2, 2013======Perhaps it is because we are not blindly hardcore left or right, Republican vs. Democrat, but rather, we look at things as right vs.
Snowden may have been naive about the world's reaction but freedom was won
by people who were willing to risk everything. What happened to all the signers
of the Declaration of Independence? They were all British traitors. I was an
intelligence analyst for the Army for many years. I saw where and how our
government gathers information. You are fools if you have any trust that your
government will do the right thing with any covert access they are granted.
Power corrupts. Secret power ultimately has no boundaries. Snowden should be
allowed to come home with our praise. Whether or not you are willing to stand up
for him, you owe him a debt. He never asked for money. He just confirmed what
all thinking Americans assumed was happening anyway.
History will have to judge whether what Snowden did was useful/proper or not.
Whether it was traitorous to disclose our efforts against terror or heroic to
disclose overreach by our govt.We may be too close to tell with
certainty now.But either way, the editorial is correct. "Well
… what did he expect, exactly?". He had to know that doing this would
inflame the govt. against him as well as our allies.If he expected
to be welcomed back as a hero or even just forgiven for any trespass, he clearly
did not understand the gravity of his actions. He should have. The Julian
Assange situation should have shown him his likely path.
LDS Liberal: I agree with what you say. But I'm confused. Every time I
defend Snowden, I'm called a right-winger. I'm pretty sure I'm
not. Are you experiencing the same thing? What's that all about?
@2 bitsCottonwood Heights, UTIF he's NOT a criminal...
why doesn't he just come back and face a jury so we can prove it?1:42
p.m. July 2, 2013=======Probably for the same reason
'they' are using "secret" kangaroo courts to rubber stamp all
those warrantless searches.Do you seriously think he can get a fair
trial now?BTW - When I was in the military, If I knew we were
flying armed nuclear weapons, and targeting U.S. civilians -- I suppose I
would have chosen to become a "Traitor" to my country as well.FYI - The Rosenbergs were "paid" and over a very long time fed and
sold U.S. nuclear secrets "secretly" to the Russians in order to be
found guilty of espionage and treason.Same criteria was met for
Benedict Arnold.Mr. Snowden did neither, therefore -- he was
anything BUT a traitor.
Re: "We has [sic] turned our back on everything SHE has stood for . . .
."We has, huh?To the point of this discussion,
though -- if you're suggesting that uncontrolled immigration and Edward
Snowden's treason have a lot in common, we're with you, 100%!
The opinion could just as easily be applied to Martin Luther King. Yeah, he got
us talking, yes he was living certain ideals but...Come on, if one
has to choose between loyalty to government and loyalty to the US Constitution
then which would you choose? History praises those who make sacrifices to
uphold liberty while the statues of authoritarians rust away in trash heaps. It
is time this shift to authoritarianism be recognized by Americans! I would also
encourage people to listen to some of the talks on YouTube delivered by Ezra
Taft Benson to put things into their proper perspective.
LDS Liberal,Give me a BREAK...The plaque doesn't say
"Welcome to traitors and spys"! It doesn't say "Send us your
criminals"! It says send us the HUMBLE, the disadvantaged, and the poor.
He CHOSE to break the law and become an outcast criminal!IF
he's NOT a criminal... why doesn't he just come back and face a jury
so we can prove it?
Wow, so much misguided and baffling hate in some of these comments for heroes
willing to lay it on the line for *your* freedoms. Manning is facing possible
execution because of what he did - despite the fact that nobody on either the
prosecution or the defense (eg nobody except potentially clueless armchair
critics) that he did what he did with any selfish or evil intent. His idealism
-- and desire to protect both innocent civilians *and* his fellow enlisted
servicemen -- motivated his dangerous leaks. Similarly, Snowden doesn't
gain derive personal gain from what he did. He has stated that he knew the
risks but he was willing to sacrifice so that America didn't undergo the
same abuses of power that occurred in the 50s - 70s on a larger scale (full-time
Federal agents were tasked with following many innocent civilians based on their
support for racial integration, their questioning of the war, their religion,
etc. *and* those Federal agents were given leeway to sabotage marriages,
burglarize homes, incite intra-group violence, etc.). I'm thankful for
these men. I believe they loved America enough to sacrifice. Before calling
names, more Americans should research what they sacrificed for.
"Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with
a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. ..."Give me your tired, your poor, Your
huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your
teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift
my lamp beside the golden door!"~ plaque in the Statue of
LibertyAmerica, We has turned our back on everything SHE has
So whats wrong with restoring his passport so he can travel to a country willing
to take him.I appreciate the information that has become public. Moreover, what
we are doing now just turns him into a political martyr.
If he didn't think this would happen if he ran to China and Russia with top
secret information he's not very smart. But I think he is smart. He knew
this would happen. But he THOUGHT he would be embraced and treated like a hero
by his anarchist friends like Julian Assange was. They kinda left him
hanging.I think his advisers told him that nations would be standing
in line to take him in. Maybe he has learned not to trust anarchists and the
people who encourage them. They are not really known for their integrity.
Looks like one lesson he will learn is... don't trust
narcissistic people who think THEY are more important than the security of a
whole nation, and what THEY want trumps everything else. He may
acquire the celebrity anarchist status he was seeking eventually. Only time
will tell. In the meantime... I hope he has some regrets.
Honesty is the only policy, however with intelligence gathering that involves
national security openness is destructive. Don't confuse openness and
honesty with protecting information that would assist the terrorists.
Let's use the same thought process that the public is using with the NSA.
If our government is doing nothing wrong then there is nothing to hide or worry
about. If our government is corrupt then they might have something to worry
about. Honesty is always the best policy.
Candidate Barack Obama had this to say before he was first elected to the
presidency:"Often the best source of information about waste,
fraud and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to
public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism
should be encouraged rather than stifled as they have been during the Bush
administration." Since then, now-president Obama has invoked the
anachronistic Espionage Act more than twice the number of times than all
previous presidents. Snowden has seen what happens to whistle-blowers who report
government abuse through the system. Ask Thomas Drake, Bradley Manning, John
Kiriakou and several others what good comes from following the chain of command
in reporting abuse. These men were either jailed or ruined professionally and
financially from trying to defend themselves from the world's strongest
government. Actors of civil disobedience have made a choice to follow a higher
law than the ones found in their contracts. Those are laws of morality embedded
in the Constitution of the United States.
"Breathes there the man with soul so deadWho never to himself hath
said,This is my own, my native land!"Yeah -- Snowden. And
Bradley Manning. And Julian Assange. And Eduardo Saverin, etc. etc.Sad little people who've exalted stroking their egos above all else.
Edward Snowden's continuing legacy...From traitor to traitor
playing the victim card.