Cougar in Texas:"Why did you leave out the portions of your
April 3 comment about Warner that clearly showed you did not respect him as a
recruit? Backpedalling a bit, are we, now that USC...has offered him? "The REAL question is, if I HAD have omitted anything disrespectful to
Warner, why didn't YOU quote me?Answer: Because I DIDN'T
say anything disrespectful about Warner. You frantically and emotionally made
that up, and now YOU are one the one who's backpedaling (typical
hypocritical coug), because as an Indy-WACer, you can't admit when
you're wrong."You also left off my statement that you have
a very poor track record in recruit evaluation, to which your first words in
your reply were 'No I don't'....Go back and read your own
comments over the months. You offer plenty of your own recruit
'evaluations'."Again, no I don't. If I HAD have,
you would have produced a quote from me. But since I don't, you're
stuck with inventing frantic and emotional strawman arguments.
"I assure you, BYU won't need a week off or a day off to beat Utah this
year... I believe that Utah wins only one game this year... Good thing
y'all scheduled Weber College."Comments like this make you
lose all credibility. Your emotion is clearly blocking your ability to think
logically.@ DuckhunterI will take your word for it.
However I still believe most of my point stands. Regardless of where Utah is
ranked, it is still one of the three most important games on BYU's
schedule. Nobody wants to lose to their big rival, and doing so four years in a
row is terrible any way you slice it.
If BYU were to be able to move around the schedule as you suggest in order to
prepare for tougher games 2-4-flinching and AZutie, We would have definitely
scheduled Utah the week before Boise State, Texas or Wisconsin... In fact, we
might have wanted to schedule Utah before MTSU as I suspect that they will give
us a tougher game this year.
@2ferActually the bye week for BYU before the utah game came about
because of scheduling issues with utah, Texas, and Virgina, not because BYU
necessarily wanted it that way, although it doesn't hurt.Go
back and see how the games were all moved around to accomodate the schedules of
everyone involved. I love how utah "fans" like yourself
think the world revolves around your losing and lowly ranked program.LOL!
@ 2forflinching and AZute1... You "guarnatee" that BYU purposely
scheduled a bye week before the Utah game?... That is so rich it is funny...
It's funny because it demonstrates to the objective reader how far from
reasonable some of you Utah fans are... Why any team that is "power
ranked" 30 spots ahead of another team would purposely schedule a bye in
order to prepare to play the weaker team defies anyones logic.You
want to do "guarantees? Here's mine... You give Utah far too much
credit... On the 2013 schedule a BYU fan would much prefer to beat Texas, Boise
State or Wisconsin... Utah or Idaho State won't get us the notoriety and
the rankings that the schools that I just mentioned would get us...I
assure you, BYU won't need a week off or a day off to beat Utah this
year... I believe that Utah wins only one game this year... Good thing
y'all scheduled Weber College.
Two For Flinching"@ poymanYou understand that BYU
makes their own schedule, right? I guarantee you that the BYE week before the
Utah game was not an accident. Nobody will be mad if BYU losses to Texas or
Wisconsin, because it's expected. Losing to Utah four years in a row on the
other hand...."Byes before both UTAH/WISC, MTSU prior to usu, UH
prior to bsu and ISU prior to nd. Their schedule continues to be ripe with
weeks-off, which is why Phil Steele has their '13 SOS ranked #49. By
comparison, he ranks UTAH's #12.
Naval Vet:Why did you leave out the portions of your April 3 comment
about Warner that clearly showed you did not respect him as a recruit?
Backpedalling a bit, are we, now that USC (and others, including Utah) has
offered him? You also left off my statement that you have a very
poor track record in recruit evaluation, to which your first words in your reply
were "No I don't".Go back and read your own comments
over the months. You offer plenty of your own recruit "evaluations". Daniel was voted his JC team's 2011 MVP, and was a 2011 1st Team JC
All American as voted by the JC Coaches in California. He was recruited by
Colorado, Texas Tech, UTEP, and SJSU. His lack of offers was due to his double
failure to qualify mid-year. His Scout ranking is "NR" which means he
hasn't been evaluated. Rivals has no profile for him. He presents a bit of
an academic risk, but not an athletic one.And I don't think you
do admit when you are wrong. When you stated that Sedgwick had "zero
stars", you clearly thought he was a 2014 recruit.
@ poymanYou understand that BYU makes their own schedule, right? I
guarantee you that the BYE week before the Utah game was not an accident.
Nobody will be mad if BYU losses to Texas or Wisconsin, because it's
expected. Losing to Utah four years in a row on the other hand....
@ RealBlueWhat's wrong with Utah's receivers? Utah had QB
problems, the receivers were fine for the most part. Utah has had solid
recruiting classes the past few seasons (that were ranked much higher than BYU
for the record). Your claim that Whittingham can't recruit is flat out
wrong. Just look at all the players Utah has put into the league since
Whittingham took over.As a head coach Whittingham has only won 5
games or less once. Again, your claim is false. As for bowl
banners, BYU has a banner for every single bowl they have played in hanging on
the press box despite the fact that most of those games resulted in a loss.
Also, the BCS bowls are something that should be celebrated. It was a big deal
for a mid-major to not only make it to a BCS game, but to come away with a
convincing victory (twice). You don't sound jealous or bitter at all,
btw.BYU was in the MWC too so why didn't they bust the BCS? In
fact half of BYU's schedule is made up of gimme games. Why haven't
they gone undefeated since going indy?
poyman...you people are hilarious. According to byu fans, star rankings of
players mean nothing because that what Bronco tols you to think. You find
preseason rankings and regard them as the gospel truth because that's what
you want to see. The entertainment value of Bronco and his fans is
just flat out off the charts...LOL!Go Cougs!
@jutsmilingI forgot to answer a couple of your questions after
re-reading your post and I hate "incompletes", besides I am bored and I
think that there are just a couple of us reading this board now anyway...Who did Houston beat in 2011 you ask??? Everybody in C-USA (except
Southern Miss) plus UCLA (6-8 that year) and Penn State (9-4 that year) in a the
Ticket City Bowl game played in Dallas, TX just as Penn State's issues were
begining to become public...I have to tell you that your comment
about "resting up before playing Utah" with a bye week made me choke on
the rootbeer I was drinking... Could be the best line I have heard from a utie
on this board this year... Yep js, we didn't need the break and
prep week for Texas, Boise State or Wisconsin... We needed it for the #60 or #69
rated Utes (depending upon which power ranking you need)who also happen to be
dragging our SOS for the year... You really caught us there, and I am so
embarrassed... LOL (I'd add a whole bunch more of these if I could)...
@PoymanI notice that the one thing the Virginia, Houston, Boise,
Nevada, and utah schedules all have in common is that they all play BYU and they
all have highly ranked SOS. All of the pac12 teams you listed whose schedules
rank in the bottom half for SOS all have something in common as well, they all
play lightly regarded and lowly ranked utah.It would appear that
lowly utah hurts the SOS of schools like BYU, usc, asu, osu, oregon, ariz, and
ucla, whereas having BYU on the schedule dramatically boosts the SOS of lowly
regarded utah. BYU probably should have replaced utah on its
schedule with one of the MWC schools as that would have increased their SOS.
@justsmilingI forgot to mention Utah israted in the Lawrence Mag to
have the 21st toughest schedule in the country and BYU is in the middle of the
pack at about 55th.What's interesting is Virginia is rated 1st
for the most difficult, Houston is rated 5th, Boise State is rated 11th and
Nevada is rated 13th...UCLA, Oregon, ASU, and OSU are rated in the
bottom 3rd and add Arizona and USC and the big bad PAC12 has 6 of it's
teams in the bottom half of the schedule toughness list... All with schedules
rated easier than BYU's...Now IMHO, I think that Utah will do
better with their schedule (they are predicted to finish 3-9) than they would do
with BYU's schedule... I would pick them to beat only 2 teams on BYU's
schedule (and one of them is a "maybe"... (Idaho State and maybe Middle
@justsmiling,I didn't get to say all that I wanted to say in my
last post, so here's more...You say "live in the
present" and not focus on their past...Focus on "how the teams are this
year"... LOL... Then you cite some rankings but don't reference them of
course... Just so you know, the polls aren't out yet... There
are a few magazines that give power rankings... But if we're going to do
power rankings, let's just compare Utah with BYU straight up...I found two magazines that have power rankings of the college teams 1-125...
One of them is Lindy' Sports... They have BYU rated #39 over-all,
unfortunately for Utah, it is rated #69 (ouch);... The other one that I found
was Phil Steel's Power Poll for the FBS teams 1 through 126... Utah does
better in this ranking, they are all the way up to #60, BYU however is #34...Just seems like you can't catch a break for your arguments here,
sorry...If you would like to share a reference for your ratings of
Nevada and Houston, I'd love to check them out... LOL.
@justsmiling... Had to travel today and just got home... So I didn't get a
chance to respond til now... But I've been looking forward to it...Your statement on difficulty of scheduling tells me that you don't
understand how it works...Chase down any strength of schedule charts
and you will find that schedule strength is predicated on the previous
season's win-loss records... For instance, Marc Lawrence's College
Preview just came out and he rates every college team's schedule for this
year... In fact some of your Ute buddies have been on the board boasting about
it (that and the number of stars on your 2 and 3 star recruits...)...LOL Borrow some money and go buy it... You will find that on page 103 the
2013 college schedules are ranked from most to least difficult ... And it's
based on two criterion: 1) The win-loss record of each team from last year; and
2)the accumlative win-loss record of all teams on LAST YEARS SCHEDULE.... So
your comment regarding past records doesn't seem to carry much validity (at
least with theexperts, consistent with other things you've on this board...
@TrueBlue- what are you talking about? 1. I'm talking about the actual
teams byu will be playing this year and their quality this year. I have no clue
what caused your rant about bowl banners. But now that you have brought it
up....2. Both banners are about undefeated seasons and different than byu
1980's banner they were in this century. 3. Both bowl banners represent
major bowls that byu has never qualified for, 4. I'm not sure why you are
attacking undefeated in a MWC season, at least it wasn't after a season of
WAC teams and 5. take a chill pill, 3 seasons in a row must be very frustrating
Just SmilingFirst of all live in the present- how are the teams this
year, not what they did in the past.Who is the one that has a 05
fiesta bowl banner draped all over their stadium? Fiesta Bowl dude. Really?!?!
What other team in this country has a bowl game banner hanging huge on their
stadium, were not talkin championships we are talking bowl game. Oh wait
it's the same team that puts their conference sticker on their car.
It's got to be the ONE and ONLY utes. You think BYU is the only
team that holds on to the past, you guys hold on to that bowl game like it was
some marvelous achievement. If it wasn't for you being in the
MWC you wouldn't even have had that opportunity because you would have lost
half those games, you almost did anyway. I wouldn't toot your horn to loud
because nobody is impressed.
Naval VetHow do you know Cody played small ball? What is small ball
anyway in high school? It is great that he was referred to mendenhall. Where was
whittinghispants at when they need a receiver? whittinghispants is happening now
because he can't win more than 5 games a year up on the hill. Why
can't he win because he can't recruit. All he can do is hire a
dinosaur to "help" your useless oc coach. A big reason he can't
recruit because nobody cares enough about frutah football and refer their
players. So I see it as another win for BYU.
morganh:"How many BCS schools recruited Cody Hoffman of B.Y.U
who is rated by Bleacher Report as the 9th best receiver for 2013
season?"Hoffman is an extraordinary athlete, but the reason why
no BCS school offered him was because he played small ball in high school.
Nobody had ever heard of him...including the Y. What got this kid on the
Indy-WACers radar was his coach referred him to mendenmidmajor.Trotting out names like Hoffman and Ansah are nothing more than red herrings.
Do a little reseach. Tally up the number of unheralded recruits coming out of
high school vs. 3-, 4-, and 5-star recruits who eventually made NFL rosters, and
see how they stack up percentage wise.And then you'll see why
"stars" ARE generally a good metric as to how good they'll
uteologyYou are confused, this is COLLEGE football. It's not a
NFL roster. There is no such thing as building or re-building a team, I'm
not sure you know this but kids leave in 3-4 years most of the players have 2
good playing seasons, and than what do you do keep building? I don't
understand your logic, what are you building? The utes aren't
getting good recruits now, they have been in the pac for 2 years now. Why would
you start getting better recruits. You think that would start in effect day 1,
but its not. Kids want to go to a bigger branded school, better climate, better
tradition. Hate to break it to you but the university of utah is neither. The
utes is 10th in the conference because for a reason, it is the 9th or 10th best
option for kids in the pac. It will always be that way. There is no rebuilding
or building you have nothing to build upon.
Just Smiling--"And Idaho State? great move to coast before the
Notre Dame game, kind of like having a bye before playing Utah and playing Mid
Tennessee before the Utah State game."You forgot, 2-Star byu
also scheduled a bye before playing WISC, as well! There's a reason Phil
Steele ranks their SOS #49, barely inside the top-half of the nation!
@POYMAN- First of all live in the present- how are the teams this year, not what
they did in the past. Using lol is also outdated. And trash talking Utah after 3
years in a row,,,really? THIS YEAR- Nevada is rebuilding rated #76, Houston is
totally rebuilding rated #92 and even at 12-1 2 years ago who did they play to
get that 12-1 season?, Mid Tennessee? rated #98! And Idaho State? great move to
coast before the Notre Dame game, kind of like having a bye before playing Utah
and playing Mid Tennessee before the Utah State game. In my opinion they play 4
PAC-12 like teams- Texas, Boise State, Wisconsin and Notre Dame. I am sure that
if they played Utah's PAC-12 schedule they would not be bowl eligible.
@ Chris, Naval, Howie, and all the trolls who think the stars by a recruit and
how many BCS schools recruit them are evidence at how good that player will be.
How many BCS schools recruited Cody Hoffman of B.Y.U who is rated by
Bleacher Report as the 9th best receiver for 2013 season? Answer: none.
Further proof that the stars by your name and who recruits you are not that
significant. Also Hoffman is joined on this list by players from BCS schools
such as Texas and Alabama.
@oldschool, I don't watch the Bachelor, but I think I
understand what you are saying..I'm all for that... All you
have to do is to get the Utie fans to stop coming on the Cougar Boards to
provoke Cougar fans... Do you think you can get them to do that???If
you can, then we're golden.
I think it would behoove BYU fans to quit referring to the University of Utah
all the time. It reminds me of a prospective mate on The Bachelor continually
criticizing other propspects rather than concentrating on the task at hand.
@justsmilingLOL... Tell us who you think are the 6 gimmee teams
besides Utah NS Maybe Idaho State? Ae you thinking Virginia and
Georgia Tech from the ACC who are both AQ teams? One beat Miami, Penn State and
UNC last year and the other won their division in the ACC... Maybe
you are thinking Houston who was a 12-1 power just 2 years ago? Or maybe Middle
Tennessee who is expected to have a very good year and win their conference
(C-USA)?And maybe you are talking about Utah State who beat the
Ute's last year and is expected to beat both Utah and BYU this year? (last
year they only lost to Wisconsin by 2 with a missed field goal at the end, and
to BYU (by 3) in Provo.I know, you're thinking of Nevada who
has played in a bowl for each of the last 8 years (losing by 1 point to Arizona
last year)... BTW, how did the Utes do against Arizona last year?(Lost by 10 at
home).I'm guessing that you're not taking about Texas,
Boise State, Wisconsin, or ND...So there's our schedule... Who
are the "6 gimmees"?
I'm sure all of you brain surgeons know that most kids don't get
evaluated until after their junior year. I know, it's just what adults do
concerning 15 & 16 year old kids. By the way, UCLA coach Mora commented on a
radio show that Sedgwick was an absolute stud.
@Naval VetLol, wow, you just referenced a comment you made almost
three months ago. Was that in your "archive" of D News comments that
you have on file?Hilarious!"And? What about him? Did
Rivals rate him at all? I said they didn't. Was I wrong? No? I thought
not."Good job, Naval, way to save face. Has Rivals rated ANY
2015 recruit? No? Fascinating. It's a good thing that you KNEW that
Sedgwick was a 2015 recruit, which is why Rivals hasn't rated him yet, or
else U would have looked pretty silly making that comment about how Rivals
doesn't even have him listed.Whew...you dodged a bullet
Just Smiling:That's what I've been telling them all along,
but they always come back with "spin" talk, and suggest that
they'll go bowling because their 41-yr legacy of beating the worst teams in
the WAC.That passes for Indy-WACey logic ya know.
To BYU Grad/BYU Dad- In 2011 BYU beat 1 PAC-12 School, Oregon State 38-28, Utah
beat Oregon State 27-8 and beat BYU 54-10 (OUCH!) In 2012 BYU played 3 PAC-12
schools- They beat Washington State 30-6, Utah beat them 49-6 and beat BYU
24-21. BYU and Utah lost to Oregon State BYU lost 42-24, Utah lost 21-7. In 2013
Utah plays a brutal PAC-12 schedule of Oregon State (better than 2012), Oregon
already rated #3 nationally, Stanford already rated #7 nationally, USC, UCLA,
Arizona and Arizona State. Meanwhile BYU will play only 1 PAC-12 team this year
and it's UTAH. BYU has 6 games with gimme teams- All they have to do is win
one other game and again they will be a bowl team but what does that mean? Seems
that if BYU played a PAC-12 schedule that rankings and bowl games wouldn't
be there at the end of their season either.
Being the fourth best team in Utah, do the utes rate half a star?
@TatorsActually, Bronco adopted the policy that it's very
gratifying to take low-star players and consistently finish each season with a
better record and ranked higher than U with it's supposedly higher-star
players.-------------Supposedly better talent? Go look
at the last few NFL drafts. Utah has learning curve in the PAC-12:"If this were a five-year projection, I think the Utes would be higher.
But I also think they need to go through at least a full class cycle before they
can really start climbing the Pac-12 hierarchy. Our preseason hype last season
was misguided, and the Utes' lack of depth was exposed. It takes time to
build not only a starting lineup that can win in the Pac-12, but also the depth
behind those starters. The facility upgrades are a good step in the right
direction." -- By Kevin Gemmell | ESPN.com (June 21, 2013)According to DN, Bronco's two main goals are:Fix the
'Utah' ProblemWin ranked teamsGood thing for BYU
fans that he learned not to put goals on t-shirts.
Cougar in Texas (cont.)And here is what I said about Daniel..."Rivals lists [Daniel] as having received no other offers, and as a
2-star athlete, Daniel is JUST the sort of player our midmajorey little brother
looks for."Whoops! Looks like I did indeed misspeak there.
Rivals listed him as a 0-star athlete. I least I'm the sort of person with
enough integrity to admit when I'm wrong. Are YOU?Oh...and for
what it's worth, Rivals listed him as having zero other offers, so that
part I DID get right."And now, Sedgwick."And?
What about him? Did Rivals rate him at all? I said they didn't. Was I
wrong? No? I thought not.Don't be so frantic and emotional.
Frantic and Emotional Cougar in Texas:"So you DO evaluate
recruits? Based on what?"I don't know what you're
talking about. Your 11:41 post was replete with strawman arguments. I never
said I evaluated recruits. Go back and see for yourself in my 8:07 post. There
it says:"I'm not the one who evaluates recruits. Rivals is.
If those 2 athletes are "5-star" caliber kids, then don't take it
up with ME. Take it up with RIVALs!""You have now made a
similar criticism for several of BYU's commits. Here are a few of the gems
that you claimed were weak commits...Fred Warner...Robertson Daniel...And now,
Sedgwick."Warner? Another strawman arguments. Here's what
I said about Warner..."Rivals likes this kid as a 3-star
recruit...which is typically 1-star too many for a cougar recruit. He might very
well be the gem of your 2014 recruiting class." (Apr. 3rd, 3:16 pm)And HOW is that "criticism"?
Naval Vet:So you DO evaluate recruits? Based on what? You criticize
the commitment of Sedgwick, claiming he had no "stars", but failed to
realize that no 2015 recruit had yet been evaluated!You have now
made a similar criticism for several of BYU's commits. Here are a few of
the gems that you claimed were weak commits:Fred Warner:
Subsequently offered by USC and, yes, Utah! He must not be so bad after all.Robertson Daniel: No stars? No other offers? Err, well he was a 2011
First-Team JC All American, the same AA team that included Ute lineman Junior
Salt. He did not qualify academically in the December time period. BYU only
looked at him when our projected DB starter and JC transfer, Trent Trammel, went
down in the spring with a torn ACL.And now, Sedgwick. I recommend
you watch his film and ask yourself if he were not a BYU commit and were
considering Utah, if you'd think he was a very good prospect, especially
for a HS sophomore.
Navel"Don't be so frantic and emotional."I
love this argument. You come to BYU articles and attack BYU and their fans and
when they fight back, you tell them that they are frantic and emotional.Interesting...Its like what happened when utah came to play
ASU. I was in the bathroom before the game washing my hands. There were 10-15
other ASU fans in the room as well. In walks a 2004 BCS T-shirt wearing utah
fan that had already had a few beers in him (at least I hope he was drunk, and
not just stupid).He stands in the middle of the bathroom and yells,
"We're going to kick your..." Now, I am not sure what
happened next because I left, but from the amount of commotion that came from
the bathroom, ASU fans were not happy.So let me ask you...Were the ASU fans frantic and emotional? Yep, probably.But more
so it begs the question...What are you u fans thinking?u'r entitled to your opinion...but don't come here
thinking some people aren't going to throw it back at u.
Just Smiling BOUNTIFUL, UTUtah hasn't played a PAC
whatever schedule from top to bottom yet either.
@Tators..."Usually, the better team wins. And that's exactly what will
happen this year. The "stars" are all aligned to allow justice to
prevail this year. Wait, watch and see."Couldn't agree more
the better team does win and thats exactly what has happened the last 3 years
and 8 of the last 11. @poywoman...How about this percentage for you
over the last 3 years the Utes have won 100% of the time and that was with
Bronco not Crowton as if that matters. That was funny though you try to pass off
the crowton years as if they dont count....LOL!I'm glad both of
you and alot of cougies on these threads keep saying how the Y will win for sure
come September. It's exactly what all of you said the last 3 years. Please
keep on perdicting how badly your going to beat the U.
Cougar in Texas:"You have a pretty poor track record when it
comes to recruit evaluation, btw"No I don't. I'm not
the one who evaluates recruits. Rivals is. If those 2 athletes are
"5-star" caliber kids, then don't take it up with ME. Take it up
with RIVALs! Don't be so frantic and emotional.
These guys are going to be totally awesome.
"At the end of the season "rated" teams and "bowl eligible"
teams are not necessarily better teams but have more wins and in the lower tier
bowl games because of an easier schedule. Let's just play the game!"While I agree that a team ranked #23 may not necessarily be better than
a team ranked #24 or #25, they are a better guideline than you give it credit
for. Polls consider strength of schedule as well as record. That is why
undefeated teams can still be ranked somewhat low in the polls. The point is,
when a final ranking shows one team ranked significantly higher than another,
overall that team was better, despite strength of schedule."Play
the FULL Pac-12 Schedule and BYU percentages would plummet."It's really hard to tell. BYU might do well, or they might not. All we do
know is what we've seen in the past, and except for the last few years BYU
and Utah had very similar schedules (they were in the same conference) and
overall BYU's record has been better than Utah's.
Tators:I've already told you. Your "higher rankings"
you're referring to were subjective positionings due to your overall
record. And that overall record was due to your weak SOS. Pollsters often
don't even watch the games. They just look at who won the game, and adjust
their voting accordingly.The bottom line is -- and you KNOW this --
that the determination as to who was the better team was on the field. And on
the field, Utah was the better team for the last 3 consecutive outings, and 8 of
the last 11. So no, mendmediocrity is NOT doing more with less. He's just
losing with lesser athletes.
One more point- I love the statistical comparison between games won against
PAC-12 teams by Utah compared to BYU. Totally irrelevant and grossly skewed. You
can't compare the percentage of BYU wins against a few lower level PAC 12
teams to the Utah percentage playing ALL the Pac-12 teams top to bottom. If BYU
played USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, etc. it would be way different
than playing Oregon State on a bad year and Washington State any year. Play the
FULL Pac-12 Schedule and BYU percentages would plummet.
@BecktoHarline...Well then, you need to write towards the objective that you
think is important... I will write on what I think is important... The hard
truth is that no one will convince the opposing fans that their team is more
dominant with better national recognition than the other's team. Now the periods of time that I chose were based on concrete events...
BYU's claim to dominance began with Lavell Edwards promotion to head coach
in 1972, thus the 41 years... Which makes 26-15 relevant (or at least it does to
me). I even think that the past 11 years (12 if you include this year) mean
something as that represents the current trend.When you begin to
instruct people on how they need to analyze and write to be taken
"seriously" you have just stepped into deep water... This is an opinion
board, people write their opinions based on how they see the issue... If it
doesn't convince you don't click "like"...A couple
of my friends and family have read your posts on the topic and find them to be
vanilla and without much significance... But good on you... it's your
opinion. See how that works?
Same arguments- man they get old..on both sides- BYU always tries to justify
themselves by mentioning bowls and rankings while the U fans bring up number of
stars a player is rated with. Both arguments are invalid and not a fair
comparison. The difference between a 2 and 4 star athlete is minimal. Some 5
star athletes are truly heads above the others, But coming out of high school,
attitude and desire quickly separate the value of a player. The bowl argument is
ridiculous. BYU talks about an incredible schedule and yet they play only 1
preseason poll team rated in the top 10, while Utah plays 2. Utah plays 3 teams
not rated in the top 80 teams- BYU play 5. BYU has 6 "gimme" games. Utah
has 3. BYU will have to win 1 "hard" game to be bowl eligible, while
Utah will have to win 4. A much harder schedule. At the end of the season
"rated" teams and "bowl eligible" teams are not necessarily
better teams but have more wins and in the lower tier bowl games because of an
easier schedule. Let's just play the game!
Oh and one more thing, b2h, LOL... I wouldn't consider wins over Oregon and
UCLA in Bowl games wins against weak teams"... I also wouldn't consider
a 59-0 win over UCLA insignificant even in bad years for UCLA...I do
agree with you on the Rival Rating system however, so see there, there is one
thing that we agree on...
I think the valid measuring stick is the combined Whit and Bronco era (as head
coaches... Sorry, 2004 belongs to another era just as 1984 does).And
when you look at those eras, the coaches stuck up pretty well against each
other, albeit the last three years head to head obviously belong to Whit and
Utah. But to borrow the expression, "lost the battle, won the war," by
the end of the year, BYU won the war in the only meaningful measures for an
I forgot to note that, in addition to BYU, Sedgwick has also been actively
recruited by both Harvard and Oregon (multiple visits by Oregon coaches and a
commitment to support his LDS mission plans). Yes, THAT Oregon. It's
telling that Harvard thinks he's smart enough and Oregon thinks he's
good enough. More reason to like the kid.
They were sophomores last year. How many stars do sophomores usually have?
Watching the video impressed me that Sedgwick knows how to play. Plus, he is
6'2" and 220 pounds at that age. When I went out for my sophomore
football team, I was 5'6" 115 pounds. By the time I was in my mid-40s I
would have been the right size for tight end (6'4", 220 pounds), except
that I was in my mid-40s. I think both these guys have a lot of
potential. We won't know how well they fulfill that for at least six years,
@poymanWhen discussing statistics, don't use such rigged
numbers/years...telling a Ute fan that BYU has a 26-15 record against them in
the past 41 years is just as valid as saying the Utes have dominated the Y in
the past 12 years. If you want to be taken seriously, use legitimate
baselines...essentially the AP era and the BCS era. Those would be more valid.
I'm with you with the whole BYU against the PAC vs Utah against the PAC
(except that a large portion of BYU's wins were against average/bad teams
in the PAC, as were Utah's).The whole national relevance
argument has two sides imo. Conference affiliation, and national ranking. Which
school is more relevant? Boise State, or Colorado? Because by the Ute fans
logic, Colorado would be...although Boise State is clearly the better school
(football team. The school's academics are sub-par to put it lightly). The
person that convinces the Ute fans that the PAC12 logo is not indicative of
national relevance should win the Nobel Prize for Common Sense imo...
@COutie, Earlier it seemed like you were suggesting that perhaps the comments
should focus on the kids instead of blue vs red... But then I read your last
post where you were talking about winning either 75% or 67% of the last 12 games
and it was apparent that you weren't trying to put yourself above the fray
but actually right smack dab in the middle of it...While your
numbers are correct, I discount the early part of them as Crowton was our coach
then and can be attributed with roughly half of those losses... Take them away
and we would each have 4 wins when we beat you this year.But
here's some real numbers to think about: 8... the number of seasons in the
past 41 years that the Utes have had a better record than the Cougs; 39... the
percentage of Ute wins in the PAC the past 2 years; 42... the percentage of wins
against PAC opponents over the past 7 years; 60... the percentage of BYU wins
against PAC oponents the past 7 years;and my favorite, 36.6... the percentage of
Utah wins over BYU the past 41 years... Less than impressive.
Naval Vet: Rivals rated Sedgwick as a...um...uh....uh-oh. Rivals never even
HEARD of this guy.As others have pointed out, evaluations for
juniors-to-be are not out yet. No 2015 kid has any stars at all.I
actually watched his film. He plays like a senior, and a good one at that.
He'll be pushing 4 stars next year. If he was uncommitted, I'd
guarantee it.You have a pretty poor track record when it comes to
recruit evaluation, btw.
LOL at poyman's post. "In the last 41 years" hahaha seriously?
Nothing says "I'm trying to maximize BYU's win percentage"
like using the past "41 years" in any situation...In regards
to the article (isn't that what these comments should be about?), it sounds
like Sedgwick is a stud. I'll be anxious to see BYU's linebacker group
in 4 years or so when he's back from his mission, with Fred Warner, as well
(assuming Fred stays committed). Recruiting looks bright at the Y! For
Will's sake, I hope he gets 3+ stars when they release scouting star
rankings for juniors (they don't give stars for sophomores...) so that the
Ute fans will give the kid a chance instead of writing him off as another Bronco
recruiting failure.No matter how many Eric Weddles, Steve Youngs,
Ziggy Ansahs...etc. there are, Ute fans love to trash on the low star recruits.
I don't (and won't ever) get that.Go Cougs!Go Utes!
(Except in September of course)
Come on, guys. We all know that once an athlete commits to BYU he loses at least
5 stars. Maybe more. On the other hand, any Ute recruit gains a few stars (or if
he has only a few stars, stars suddenly don't matter anymore).
This one is especially for Tators regarding the post that the best team usually
wins. Spin it any way you want but here are some facts:If Utah
beats BYU this year it will be their 9th win in the last 12 years or 3 out of
every 4.If the Y finds a way to win it will be their 4th win in the last
12 years or 1 of every 3.
Well it looks like the posters are back to comparing red vs. blue regardless of
the article. Too bad. Kids that are committing for 2015 typically
aren't rated yet so they won't have any stars. Lots of silly posts
regarding their rating at this time.Yes, BYU was only a few points from
being 12-1 and a meteor also came close to hitting the earth but in the end;
neither happened.My favorite, however is WildCougar. Yes Utah
'only' has 6 commits for 2014 which says nothing about the program
because the 2013 season hasn't even started. Only 1 of the 6 is a
'lowered star' athlete with a 2 star rating. The rest are all 3 and 4
star rated. Since joining the PAC 12 Utah has significantly upgraded their
recruiting and been evaluated as having significantly better recruiting classes
then BYU. This isn't my opinion but actual facts.
The kid isnt in Rivals or scouts or ESPN recruiting databases because he is part
of the "2015" recruiting class. most, if not all recuiting agencies
havent even started analyzing next years recruits. read the article and
understand what it says before you start bashing the kid and spouting that BYU
always recruits low. I think the trolls on these boards (and we all know what
names I am talking about) need to be reclassified as "BYU Haters"
instead of supposed "fans" of Utah. all they care about is hating BYU.
sad day for collegiate sports when fans become that way.
Sedgwick played in the CIF-SS, one of the most talent-rich areas in the country.
The CIF-SS is HUGE (probably includes 20 million or so people), and names a 1st
team for each of its 13 regions. Sedgwick was the ONLY sophomore linebacker
named 1st team CIF-SS, and one of only 3 sophomore defenders in the ENTIRE
CIF-SS named to a 1st team. This means the coaches and media in SoCal think the
kid is a FLAT OUT STUD. The kid had 22 tackles in a CIF playoff game against
top shelf competition--he's an absolute one-man wrecking crew out there, a
16 year old kid in a grown man's body. Between his obvious talent and
desire to live BYU's Honor Code, BYU would have been nuts to not offer this
to poyman"Just think what the ratio would have been had Crowton
not been our coach for those 4 years???"That blade cuts both
ways. What would the ratio be if Lavell never coached in Provo?
re: Howard S. 7/1 16:30How else can byu recapture their glory days
of being a medium sized fish in a small pond?
to Y Grad / Y Dad July 1st**"Oh, quick, where's my star
chart?"**You're an astrologer?
Would you rather be a 3 or 4 star player who signed with Utah, be at the
basement in the PAC 12, and go bowling at Orchard Lanes this
@Howard... You should know something about losing and low winning percentages...
Utah has a 39% win ratio against PAC12 schools over the past 2 years, 42%
against PAC12 schools the past 7 years and a 36.6% win ratio against BYU the
past 41 years...BYU however, has a 60% win ratio against PAC member
schools the past 7 years and a 63.4% win ratio against the Utes over the past 41
years... (26-15)...this all includes the Crowton years when BYU lost 4 in
a row... Just think what the ratio would have been had Crowton not been our
coach for those 4 years???
Howie S.You may put out great effort in slandering BYU but that does not
count in anybody's book, especially the book of life. Get some class and
we will talk about a scholarship.
Howard S."I'm a great person and I give full effort... so
do I qualify for a Bronco scholarship?"Obviously, not even
close, since you're not fully invested and you have absolutely no D-1 level
Will Sedgwick and Earl Mariner both appear to be great young men and will be
fine additions to the BYU football program!
I have seen Will play, when our local High School played Laguna it was like
watching Kyle Van Noy on the other team! I am excited to see if he can play at
that level for BYU.
For too many folks in these comment sections, being a Ute fan boils down to the
constant, gnawing fear that somewhere out there someone might be saying nice
things about BYU.
Howard SI'll consider it if you consider the same logic for
utah.Kyle gets more stars and can't do anything with them in
your conference.When you make an argument make sure it doesn't
make you own team look bad too.If it is good for the goose it is
good for the gander.Weak.
Gotta love how uties want to argue on "stars" whether or not a player
will be good. then they want to argue that because of the "stars" the
team is no good. then they want to argue that because of "stars" a team
is part of a conference.I guess since "stars" are so
important, we shouldn't play the games.What's even funnier
is uties claiming that BYU will never beat them again, that they will never beat
any ranked team again, and that they will never be in a conference.Why is that funny?Because until 2004, utah had done nothing
noteworthy in football. ever.Then they went on a spree of good luck,
good football, and good players.The part that is funny is that now
they think that it can't happen to BYU.That since it happened
to them it can't happen to anyone else.Do you not understand
college football at all?Anyone, at any time can beat someone else.
u of all people should know this.Yet you're arrogant enough to
tell BYU fans it won't happen to them.Strange little world you
@WildCougarFull effort? Great people?I'm a great
person and I give full effort... so do I qualify for a Bronco scholarship?
Responding to the theme of some here that Bronco takes 2 star recruits and
produces success with them...Consider the truth that Bronco does
well with his 2 star recruits as long as he plays MWC/WAC level
competition...Also consider the truth that when Bronco plays BCS
and/or ranked competition he has a losing record.The truth is that
Bronco's success with his 2 star athletes is built on 2nd tier
competition... when he plays the big boys he produces mediocre results at best.
These recruiting stories do my heart good... It's guys like this that cause
Vegas Odds Makers to accurately pick winners and losers... Now speaking of
losers, I am pleased to see that the Utes are predicted to only win 3 games this
season (Weber State, Colorado and WSU)... It's recruits like these that
give these same odds makers confidence in saying that BYU will soundly beat Utah
on their way to an 8-4 or 9-3 year... (I personally think it will be a 10 win
Who cares about stars. These guys look like they are going to give their full
effort and are great people, that is all I look for. That is all the cougar
coaches look for. Stars don't mean anything. ute fans use it as a wiener
measuring stick. By the way ute fans weren't you suppose to get better
recruiting now that you are in the pac. You only have 6 recruits, what does that
say for your program? And most of them are "lower starred athletes" utes
have no argument because that program is going down like a sinking pirate ship.
@Chris Bya AND.....
You know I am 1st BYU but also like to see the Utes do well. Do not see the
reason to trash each other. Shows little intelligence on either side. I was in a hospital waiting for a child and they had a Football preview for
this coming season. Here is what I read.1) BYU was 17 points from a
12-1 Season last year. 2) If you go by the stars BYU had more upper stars
but less total stars. Per this magazine neither did a bang up job as far as
recruiting the "best" players. Utah was a tad higher per this magazine.
3) Utah is predicted to be 11th in the PAC-12. Only Colorado would do
worse. Basically they said it will be a long and not so good year. High point
was Dennis Erickson may get something going on offense as last year was not
good. 4) BYU they say the jury is out. Not sure which way it will go.
Tough schedule. USU they were very complimentary about. 2nd in MTW
only to BSU. Bottom line. BYU could be good. USU should be good and
Utah should not. Hope all do well.
To Naval Vet:The same advice applies to you. If you label
Bronco's recruiting as mediocrity, and yet he takes those level of recruits
and has been consistently finishing football seasons ranked higher in national
bowls and with overall better records than the Utes, then what exactly does that
say about the U program? It says something lower and worse than
"mediocrity". Bronco must be a pretty great coach to start
with what you label as "mediocrity" and finish it by not just going to
bowl games, but also winning them. And how does the U compare?? Well, first of
all, you have to be able to go to bowl games before being concerned with winning
them... And going to any bowl game at all is something that no longer seems to
be a tradition at Uteville... no matter how many stars you claim for your
@54-10Fail. I almost never comment about the quality of a recruit as
I don't falsely claim to know anything about any of them. I do point out
the hypocrisy of, and mock, utah "fans" like yourself, or azute, who
thinks watching highlight films on Youtube makes him a talent evaluator. I
pseronally make no claim to know the 1st thing about the talent of any of the
kids utah or BYU signs other than the very, very few of them that i personally
have watched play multiple time.If you are going to try to pass off
one of your posts as truthful, especially when it is a complete fabrication,
then you need to work a little bit harder.LOL!
@ Howard S:Actually, Bronco adopted the policy that it's very
gratifying to take low-star players and consistently finish each season with a
better record and ranked higher than U with it's supposedly higher-star
players. That means one of two things. Either the star ranking
system for high school players is somewhat flawed and thus very subjective, or
the Y coaches are getting a heck of lot more out of their players than the U is
out of theirs.Either way, it's an argument you wouldn't be
advised to keep pursuing.
Rivals rated Sedgwick as a...um...uh....uh-oh. Rivals never even HEARD of this
guy.Oh well. Moving right along.Rivals rated Mariner as
a...uh...WHOOPS! Rivals never even heard of THIS kid either. They haven't
even acquired ZERO stars yet.Oh well. I'm sure these two kids
will shoot right up the recruiting charts...all the way up to "2-stars".
That's where mendenmediocrity likes to do the bulk of his scouting.
I agree with commentators on the you tube video. He doesn't play like a
sophomore. He looks like a perfect fit for the Y.
I can't even FIND these guys in Rivals.Did Rivals make a
Again, Howie, and Chrissy, we refer you to Paul Kruger, Eric Weddle, and Dennis
So many of these recruits are either serving missions or are planning to serve.
That speaks highly of the caliber of these athletes who could be marching
forward in their college football careers yet have chosen to serve two years of
their lives to serve others. Good character is only one of the
factors of being an elite student athlete and one that is easily overlooked in
recruiting. However, at BYU it is not only one of the factors, but is a major
factor. It also is a reason that some very good athletes are not offered
scholarships to wear the Y on the helmet.Being peculiar has benefits
and drawbacks but it is what BYU stands for. Glad to have Will Sedgwick and
Earl Mariner on board.
@BlutoTwo star or less players?I don' see any stars
for these two... Bronco must have adopted the policy that if 2 stars
are better than 4 stars... then zero stars must be better than 2 stars.
Just curious,There are approximately 50 BCS schools.Was
there even ONE of those 50 schools interested in these guys?If not,
byu is the right place for them
I give both of these fellas at least 3 gold stars.
Y Grad / Y DadRichland, WAWho are you quoting? It's your
Duckhunting friend who piles on recruits with no knowledge of them.
I agree with Y Grad/Dad. This is usually about this time certain trolls start
commenting about how many stars certain publications arbitrarily assign to high
school players... in response to the U not getting those players.But
remember one thing. The more you downgrade the star numbers of BYU commitments,
the worse it will make you look and feel when you get beat this year on
September 21st. It's too much of a stretch for U fans to count on another
series of untimely turnovers to allow them another win this year. It's just
not going to happen. Usually, the better team wins. And that's exactly what
will happen this year. The "stars" are all aligned to allow justice to
prevail this year. Wait, watch and see.
Looks like a solid kid with a good nose for the football, and he is an out of
state recruit.WIN WIN.
I don't know...Ask Dennis Pitta, Eric Weddle, Paul Kruger or Steve
Young.They were all 2-stars or less.
Y dad,It does not matter how many stars they have, if any. The Utah
trolls will be out in force real soon.
"Oh, quick, where's my star chart?"