@Y Grad / Y DadOkay here we go...You’ve stated
your belief that desire supersedes "horses"... let's say talent.You conclude that a less talented Utah beat Alabama based solely on
desire.I've never said Utah had superior overall talent than
Alabama... what Utah did have was desire combined with "sufficient"
talent to beat Alabama.With the same desire and
"insufficient" talent... Utah would have lost.There are
infinite levels and combinations of both desire and talent… and every team
is different.BYU has typically been a team higher on desire than
talent.That explains why BYU consistently has success against
MWC/WAC level competition and less success against BCS or ranked competition.The point is that BYU’s higher level of desire isn’t
sufficient to overcome “insufficient” talent when it comes to
playing BCS or ranked teams with typically greater talent.BYU's
overall talent today isn't any better than it has been at any time in
Bronco's tenure... so it seems unreasonable to believe that Anae’s
“new” brand of desire is going to produce greater success than BYU
typically has against BCS or ranked competition.
Howard, now you aren't playing fair. You called me out, and I gave an
answer that I honestly believe. You, in turn, totally dodged my fair and honest
questions for you.The answers for both of us are very similar. Yes,
BYU has made a habit of beating teams they are supposed to, and losing to teams
they are supposed to. This with "choir boys" and "old men."
Some say desire can only take you so far, but I disagree, and cite Utah/Bama as
a prime example. Superior desire and coaching that day trumped physical
superiority. And don't even try to pretend that suddenly, on that day,
Utah's "horses" were superior to Alabama's. Utah
has had some success (not recent) beating teams they were supposed to lose to,
then turning around and losing to teams they were supposed to beat. Evidence
Colorado.Your athletes are supposedly superior to BYU's this
year - we shall see. Beck to Harline, superior athletes or greater desire? Max
to Collie? Max to George?Your turn to answer. Forget the schtick,
and pretend we're two good friends that cheer for opposing teams.
@Y Grad / Y DadSo you believe BYU has a losing record to
BCS/Utah/ranked teams due to lack of horses and not due to desire...I agree... Bronco's record shows that he loses to teams with superior
talent.And even BYUs supposed greater level of desire isn't
enough to elevate the Cougs to a winning record against superior horses.The question now is... how will Anae's brand of desire lift the
Cougars to success against teams with better talent when such desire has failed
in the past?
Howard S. Taylorsville, UK @Y Grad / Y Dad"How about
responding with an answer?"Oh, i thought it was already fairly
well established: man to man, across the board. Your recruits have soooo many
more stars, and you place so many more players in the NFL. Its desire that
keeps us close at all.Truth or dare, Howard, your turn. When the
worst road team in the history of football came into your house and spanked your
Utes, when there was so much to win for, was it lack of desire, or lack of
horses?When Boise spanked you're collective backsides, was it
lack of desire, or lack of horses?I asked you before, the last time
byu beat utah (remember that?), I believe Utah had like six or seven players
drafted, while BYU only had free agents. was it lack of desire, or lack of
@Y Grad / Y DadHow about responding with an answer?Oh...
and yes Whit has a winning record against BCS teams.
Here's the truth: BYU and Utah are very close to same caliber of team, only
Utah has seen greater success in the last decade. They have performed better
when it matters.Sugar Bowl Utah dominating Alabama was inspiring.
2008 was also one of the under-rated peak years of MWC. BYU beat UCLA with a
54-0 shutout! TCU lost one game to a strong Oklahoma team with Heisman winning
QB, and the other to Utah. I underestimated Utah when we played them because
they pulled out a couple of really lucky wins. But they were awesome against
Alabama. The Tide were working a comeback, but honestly, I don't believe
that they didn't prepare their best just because they were only playing in
the second best bowl game. I do believe they weren't ready for Utah, but
Utah can do that to teams.IMHO Utah deserverd a shot against
Florida, and had a good chance of winning.Now, Utah will eventually
do well in the PAC. But likewise... BYU will also be successful, and one day
Bronco will meet his goals.
Howard S. Taylorsville, UT"As we consider the relative
value of desire vs. "horses"....When BYU loses to BCS teams
at the rate of 56%...And when BYU loses to Utah at the rate of 70%
over the last decade...Is it due to lack of desire or
"horses"... Or both?"Since this is close to a relatively
honest question, fairly asked, I'll try to respond in kind. Is
Utah's rate of success against BCS teams any better? Who has the better
horses and greater desire?And when Utah loses to teams like
Colorado, and in a previous life, UNLV... Who has the better horses and greater
@Reno Cougs Fan 68I never claimed BYU never won a championship, I
said it was more backing into one then actually deserving."With
the way the [BCS] system is now, there's no question we wouldn't have
been No. 1. We probably would have gone to a better bowl, and that would have
been great, but there would have been four teams higher than us in the
polls." -- Robbie BoscoThey weren't ranked number one
after beating Utah (6-5-1), they were ranked number one because #1 Nebraska and
#2 South Carolina both lost. Huge difference.
Uteology,So are you now willing to admit that BYU did really win a
National Championship in 1984, because they had 15 players drafted into the NFL
that year!!! By the way, just to add a little injury to insult, BYU was first
voted number 1 after beating the Utes that year!!! Ouch!!! Thanks for
playing!!!Go Cougs!!!Go Utes!!!
Howard S,I am sorry but I must call you on the carpet about your
comment about Alabama and Utah!!! If you took those same two teams and had them
play ten times, bama would win at least eight without breaking a sweat!!! Utah
caught lightning in a bottle once and good for them but what have they done
recently!!! Utah has had two weak gimme schedules without having to play Oregon
or Stanford!!! Now you play the big boys!!! Good luck, you are gonna need
it!!!Go Cougs!!!Go Utes!!!
As we consider the relative value of desire vs. "horses"....When BYU loses to BCS teams at the rate of 56%...And when BYU
loses to Utah at the rate of 70% over the last decade...Is it due to
lack of desire or "horses"... Or both?
@Confused...2- Because of #1, the team did not prepare for Utah like they did
Florida. They gave half effort, while KW pushed his players to play beyond
themselves...So you are telling me you watched both Bama and Utah
practice and prepare for this game right?
@Confused3- Utah had a "Couple" of horses... the rest was Ok
players who latter became good NFL players...sorry to bush you
bubble, but the Bama game was as much about them taking Utah lightly as Utah
played above their level of competence.----------Nope!
Utah's defense dominated and offense executed a great game plan
against Bama. That team, if I recall correctly, had TEN players that
contributed that were drafted into the NFL.I think BYU has ONE
player drafted in the last 3 years and that on potential, raw talent, who Dave
Rose recruited.If you define 10 as "couple of horses" then
what is one "horse"?
@CougFaninTXYou mean the same mediocre New Mexico (1-11) team that
BYU's best team since 1996 ONLY beat because New Mexico missed TWO game
winning field goals? Or the 2008 Quest team that needed a penalty and missed
extra point to win Washington (0-12)?Is so, then let downs happen
during a long season but championship caliber teams find a ways to win, without
relying miracles.Oklahoma also didn't have their future
starting NFL QB in the 2nd half, which I think made a pretty big difference."BYU will be more talented at QB and O line this year."Yet Utah keeps putting OL in the NFL. Wilson has a better arm, Hill better
dual threat. The question is which coordinator has a better scheme, Dennis
Erickson or Anae, suited for their QB. Neither QB has proven anything.
Howard,Does ALL Utah fans have Revisionist lenses on?Here is
the FACTS about Utah beating "Bama"..1- Bama thought they
got shafted by drawing Utah. They thought Utah was Beneath them.... If you
don't believe me, go read the comments by coach Saban....2-
Because of #1, the team did not prepare for Utah like they did Florida. They
gave half effort, while KW pushed his players to play beyond themselves...3- Utah had a "Couple" of horses... the rest was Ok players who
latter became good NFL players...sorry to bush you bubble, but the
Bama game was as much about them taking Utah lightly as Utah played above their
level of competence.
@UteanymousSalt Lake City, UtahMany highly regarded people in
the Polynesian community have no experience to coach d-1 running backs... Atuaia
is one of those.You are correct to recognize that Hill has proven
Actually, Howie, Duckhunter is precisely on point. The only ones talking
"Heisman" are the trolls with their strawman arguments. Cite one post by
a real BYU fan that touts Hill or Nelson or even Heaps as a likely Heisman
candidate. Although Hill looks promising, no true BYU fan is touting him as one
of the Greats until he proves himself. I think he has the potential to be just
that.Yeah the RB coach has limited experience (not no experience),
but he is very highly regarded in the Polynesian community. What's your
point. Why are you so worried?
@DuckhunterWhile you certainly would like to distract from Mr.
hedgehog's point... the fact remains that Taysom Hill has proven
nothing.It's also true that Hill will be handing off to RBs
that are coached by a coach that has nevner coached before.
@hedgehogNo one claimed Nelson was a Heisman possibility, just lying
about something doesn't make it true. That said BYU actually has a heisman
trophy winner and MULTIPLE Heisman finalists. MULTIPLE.utah has
never had a player even remotely worthy of Heisman consideration let alone an
actual finalist for the award.LOL!
I love how you Utah county lemmings have worked yourselves up over the
"next" Heisman trophy winning QB..LOL.Has there ever been an
offseason where byU hasn't had several players hyped as Heisman
quality?...total self absorbed delusion.Last year it was tim Tebow
-esque Riley Nelson as an under the radar Heisman choice. LOLTayson
has proven NOTHING.
I watched a replay of the AZ/OK St. game yesterday. The AZ defense was AWOL as
it was most of the season. However the AZ offense was unstoppable. The AZ
opener was no indication of what happened during the OK St. game or the rest of
the year. The offense only laid two eggs last season, once against Oregon as
well as UCLA. Taysom appears to have more size and speed than last years AZ QB
senior QB. Taysom stays healthy and rises to meet expectations, BYU is in for
an amazing season.
The article keeps inferring that BYU doesn't have talent. Fans are excited
with the talent BYU is bringing back, coupled with Anae's new offense and
proven O mind, it will be a good fall. BYU will make some noise for sure.
Howie:Lets compare "horses" shall we?Jamal Williams >
YorkCody Hoffman > Dres Anderson or ScottTaysom Hill = Travis
Wison (though Hill is the better athlete)BYU O-line < Utah O-lineBYU D-line = Utah D-line BYU linebackers >>> Utah (utes LB
play is atrocious)BYU secondary = Utah secondary (only because Utah lost
most of theirs, we'll see this one could change)Bottom line: I
don't see Utah's so-called advantage in horses. That's why BYU
has 2 All Americans while Utah can't even produce All Conference. Y Dads
point was completely lost on you. I remember Utah in 2008 very well. You had a
QB that built his career on desire because he lacked natural ability. Utah beat
Alabama because they wanted it more...to think your "horses" were even
comparable or had much to do with it is just crazy. They were probably more
athletic and more talented at every single position than Utah. That's what
made it remarkable and a pleasure to watch...I've never cheered so loud for
the utes. Watching Saban throw his tantrums was priceless. Utah had more heart
Howard,Oh the irony! You claim that BYU's speaks of
"desire" because they don't have the "horses" and make fun
of that "desire", saying it won't beat Utah's
"horses". The irony is that records and polls have shown that last year
the Cougars were a much better team than the Utes (in other words, better
"horses"). The Utes won because they had more desire. Would you look at
that, it looks like desire CAN beat horses.BYU has horses. How much
more than Utah does, we'll see in the final polls.
I find it interesting that beating a pathetic team like BYU is all the Utah fans
seem to continually tout as their credentials of superiority. Surely attaining
a victory over such a lower tier, inferior opponent cannot really feel that
good. Seems to me that says a lot about the mighty, super athletic. incredibly
fast Utes of today. Good luck boys. Let's see if cream really does rise
to the top, of the PAC 12, that is.
It only takes a couple of superior players on a team's offense to rule the
field, as long as you're using an offensive wrinkle that gives you some
advantage.BYU proved this in the 70's and early 80's.Taysom Hill has presence, moxie and skills.He'll make Anae look
like a genius.Good times ahead for 3 years.And, good luck to the U
in finding their stride in the PAC - they've got a good organization that
just needs to get over the hill in their current surroundings.Win-Win.
It clearly takes three things to win - talent, desire and coaching (strategy).
Alabama was clearly more talented, but Utah had enough talent, more desire
(probably because Alabama didn't think they had anything to worry about)
and a better game plan. Don't forget, Utah barely beat a mediocre New
Mexico team that same year.Whether U like to admit it or not, BYU
and Utah have had comparable talent the last four years, and probably will again
this year. Three of those four have come down to the final play. Even the
blowout two years ago was close in the first half, until BYU gave up (lost their
desire) in the 2nd half.BYU was not as talented as Oklahoma four
years ago, but they won because they had more desire and a better game plan.BYU will be more talented at QB and O line this year. I expect the
other positions to be comparable talent to last year. Hopefully Anae will bring
better strategy than we've had the last two years. I'm predicting 8-4
this year, but 9 or 10 wins is possible with desire and the right game plan.
Howard S.Taylorsville, UTU do NOT have the horses to match up
with Bama, otherwise, U wouldn't be floating at the bottom of the PAC while
Bama is winning national championships. I know, I know, different years, but U
haven't EVER had the horses that Bama has.Your arrogance has
slid you out on thin ice brother. Or ignorance. You choose.
howard"But we're good enough to beat your
Cougars..."It's laughable that the ONLY significant
achievements the Utes have had since joining the PAC are a couple of wins over
their supposedly "irrelevant", Independent rivals.It's
going to be a sad day in Uteville when Utah loses to BYU in a couple of months
and the kids on the hill are forced to pretend that beating another 10-loss
Colorado team is the new measure of success on the hill.
Gotta admit, I like what I'm hearing, but seeing is believing. OTOH, Howie
and his friends come over here to talk smak while their team can't beat the
dregs of the PAC12. They criticize BYU's bowl arrangements, while their
team played in no bowl last year.So how about waiting until Utah
actually beats someone, say, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, someone other than
Colorado before you talk about the great Utah athletes. And I'm waiting to
see Utah beat Washington ... still waiting ... crickets ...
@Y Grad / Y DadI understand that you'd choose desire over
horses because that's all you've got.Utah beat Alabama
because they had the horses to back up the desire.The fact is that
it's not either / or... most big boy teams have both... and if you only
have desire you're going to get beat.As for Utah... If
you're hoping for a lack of desire... I predict you'll be sorely
Yay, Hedgie's back!!!How great is it that our obsessive little
brothers have to constantly come onto BYU articles to feel special and
important. It must be so hard being the punching bag of the PAC. And we know,
3/4 8/11 and PAC-12 membership, but it doesnt make it any less pathetic that you
spend so much of your time commenting on articles about a team you don't
like. The least you could do is bring valuable exchange to these boards. But I
guess that is expecting way too much isn't it?Anyway, I have
always liked Anae. The last time he was in Provo was his first job as an OC, and
he had multiple top 25 offenses in that time. After spending two years learning
the Spread/no huddle from one of the masters of the game, It will be very
interesting to see what the new Anae offense looks like. Running the hurry-up
will improve production and put more points on the board. The O-line will
receive a huge overhaul, and that will be the deciding factor for the offenses
Howard S.Taylorsville, UTRemind me not to throw you a
compliment again, totally wasted.The point is not about BYU
athleticism. 'Bama posseses athleticism that Utah can only dream about...
but desire won the day.Refresh my memory (because it HAS been a long
time), the last time BYU beat Utah, was that not the Ute team that had six
players drafted, while BYU only produced free agents?I LIKE both,
but if I have to choose, I'll pick desire over stallions. And since, as
you so graciously pointed out, the big boys have studs BYU can't even dream
about, we'd better have desire.Come to think of it, that may be
why Utah has made a habit of losing to teams they should beat. To much
athleticism, not enough desire.
@mussingaroundBut we're good enough to beat your Cougars...
howieAll that athleticism and experience, and U still haven't
been able to beat a single conference opponent with a winning record!Since joining the PAC, the Utes are all talk, but no walk. You're not
even good enough to beat the only WAC team on your schedule to qualify for a
@ YGrad / Y DadAlabama?When Utah bear Alabama they did
it not only with desire... but with athleticism and experience that BYU simply
does not have.
Howard, no matter who thinks of what, or in your case, doesn't, someone
wants it more. That greater desire may be present at game day, it can also be
present through thousands of hours of preparation. Someone wants it more. When
someone is out, say for example, smoking weed, someone else is wanting it
more.When greater ability meets greater desire, something has to
give. 'Bama learned that lesson from Utah. Here's hoping BYU can
teach that lesson to Utah.
For the last few years it seemed that offensively the team really didnt'
get much better as the season progressed. I am sure that injuries and switching
quarterbacks around didn't really help much but all teams have injuries and
play different quarterbacks. I like the focus that BYU has this year.
Can't wait for players to get on the field.
Good offensive line play isn't created out of a vacuum. Exhibit A:
Utah's O-line last year. It takes a lot of in-game reps to build the
cohesion necessary to have a good line, and thus, a good offense. Byu simply
won't have that this season. Combined that fact with the upgrade in
schedule, and we might be seeing 'Anae run out of Provo: The Sequel',
as the newest summer/fall blockbuster.
looks like they're buidling on the carrot and apples strategy of last
year.good job..good effort!
"... whip rump..."???Please stop Dick...
you're embarrassing yourself.
I'll admit, I am one of the fans who wanted Anae out last time around. I
thought he was too predictable in his play calling and he was too conservative
in the closing minutes of the Utah game (infamous blocked field goal attempt).
But now I am starting to like this guy. I am willing to see what he can do. I
agree with him 100% that it all begins with the offensive line.
"... better conditioned athletes..."Now there is some out of
the box thinking right there...Who would have ever thought of
conditioning as a competitive advantage?I'm sure none of those
big boy teams on BYUs schedule this year has given a second thought to
conditioning this summer....I'm changing my prediction to
undefeated for the Cougars this year...
Go for it, 'no grass stains on the quarterback"? That would be
extremely impressive the first year of a new offense. But I have to agree it is
good to have high goals!Go Cougars!