Comments about ‘Religious leaders wonder what's next after gay marriage court rulings’

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Published: Saturday, June 29 2013 11:55 a.m. MDT

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Contrarius
mid-state, TN

It's important to remember that many religious Christians and Jews SUPPORT gay marriage. "Pro-civil rights" does NOT mean "anti-religion".

Here's a partial list of denominations that support gay marriage, or allow each diocese to decide independently. Not a complete list, but it'll give you an idea of the widespread support for equal rights amongst the religious:

Anglican Church of Canada

Lutheran and Reformed Churches
--Church of Sweden
--Church of Denmark
--Church of Iceland
--Danish Church of Argentina
--Evangelical Lutheran Church of Canada
--United Church of Canada
--Protestant Church of Germany
--Protestant Church of the Netherlands
--Church of Norway
--Evangelical Lutheran Church of America

Presbyterian
--Presbyterian Church USA (blesses same-sex unions, but does not perform marriages)

Congregational polities
--Quakers -- in several countries
--United Church of Christ
--Canadian Unitarian Council
--Unitarian Universalist Association
--Metropolitan Community Church
--Mennonite Church of the Netherlands
--Affirming Pentecostal Church International

Mixed-polity and other polities
--Swedenborgian Church of North America
--Uniting Church of Australia
--United Church of Canada (individual ministers)
--New Apostolic Church

An LDS offshoot -- Community of Christ

And in Judaism:
--Reform Judaism
--Reconstructionist Judaism (individual rabbis)
--Conservative Judaism (USA)

Daniel Leifker
San Francisco, CA

How quickly things change. I remember one presidential debate in 2000 when Gore and Bush were in chummy agreement in their opposition to same-sex marriage. After last week's SCOTUS ruling, same-sex marriage will spread to all 50 states pretty fast, and the whole thing disappears as an issue for the 2016 election... when the GOP candidate, I predict, will finally support same-sex marriage. But from what my gay and lesbian friends tell me, the GOP has lost the GLBT vote for the next century.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

I left these out of my previous list -- they bless same-sex unions, and in some areas perform weddings:

Episcopalian polities
--Anglican Church of Canada
--Episcopal Church of US
--Old Catholic, Reformed Catholic, and Liberal Catholic Churches

Scott1
Quiet Neighborhood, UT

Does anyone know how to find online the statement read from LDS pulpits a few weeks ago concerning the LDS church planning to continue working with the boy scouts? Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

"Religious leaders wonder what's next after gay marriage court rulings".

If you are not LGBT the answer would be, Nothing really! Your life will continue being the same as now.

If you are LGBT then you have an opportunity to start enjoying a bigger degree of freedom and feel more recognized as a member of the American society. However, we know, that the road toward equality is long and we need to do more.

Hopefully, religious leaders will choose to follow the higher spirit of their laws. In a country that some claim to be a Christian copuntry. Perhaps, more churches will realize the mistake of their ways and will become more inclusive and accepting of nature, God and all his children.

snowman
Provo, UT

Scott1: No letter was read in my ward

aislander
Anderson Island, WA

These rulings are about CIVIL marriage. They provide equal treatment under civil law for same sex citizens, something guaranteed by the Constitution. They do NOT affect church marriages in any way, nor will they, as the constitutional doctrine of separation of church and state is actually strengthened by these decisions.

How? As Contrarius points out, many faiths DO support same sex marriage; to deny them the right to perform them not only violates same sex individual's guarantee of equal treatment under civil law, it imposes religious beliefs of the anti gay marriage churches' upon those who believe differently.

Freedom of (and from) religion was a founding principle of our country. All churches and people of faith should well remember this principle as it protects their religious liberty as well. No one will be forced to have or perform a gay marriage. Until they can prove otherwise in THIS country, they should realize that as times change, if it weren't for our secular government, they could see their religion denied it's beliefs by a popular vote or legislative action. In the meantime, everyone is free to live by their god's law as THEY believe it to be.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

This isn't the loss for traditional marriage that some suppose it is. The Sun will continue to rise in the east and set in the west and traditional marriage is what continue to go on as it always has.

It's good that gays have come out of the closet. No longer because of societal pressure will they be marrying unsuspecting heterosexuals this in itself is good for many traditional marriages.

For fairness sake it wasn't necessary that gays be given the ability to marry, civil unions would have been enough but what has happened does not mean the sky is going to fall. this won't hurt my traditional marriage and it won't hurt yours either.

DN Subscriber 2
SLC, UT

Religious leaders should fully understand what comes next.

The radical left activists will begin to disrupt religious activities, picket, file frivolous lawsuits, write nasty letters to the editor, and otherwise harass and intimidate any denomination that does not cave into their politically correct notions, and abandon the traditional family as the very foundation of western civilization.

Any resistance will be fought with attacks on tax exemptions for churches, the deductibility of contributions to churches, etc. (Except those "approved" religions which preach the liberal party dogma.)

Their ultimate goal is that which the left has been pursuing for a long time, "Freedom FROM religion" not "freedom OF religion."

In our brave new Orwellian world, bad has become good, and neither black nor with is good, only rainbows. Equality will truly mean that "some or more equal than others."

bandersen
Saint George, UT

There is no 'next'. There has only been the now. "You will never be satisfied with what you don't need because what you don't need will never satisfy you." It is a momentary 'victory' for the Gay rights crowd, because they have to wake up again, to find out that political victory didn't do anything but make them more frustrated. The truth is 'hard' for those who refuse to accept it. No amount of reasoning can enlighten anyone that is 'hardened' against it. Would you have it any other way? There is only one form of marriage and you are either for it or against it. It is awesome!

christoph
Brigham City, UT

The elites of our country will be for polygamy once it passes the 50 percent approval mark; just do what is popular, that is how Messrs. Obama, Clinton, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Dick Cheney and Rob Portman lead. Do anything to avoid crucifixion.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@dn sub

"Orwellian?" .

LeftBehind
SAN FRANCISCO, CA

Many comments here remind me of the early days of the Civil Rights movement. Remember when some religious leaders said the Civil Rights movement was part of a vast left wing conspiracy of Godless Communists?

Then, as now, people said that racially mixed marriages offended the 'natural order'

In rendering his decision that was overturned by the Supreme Court, Judge Leon Bazile said: "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

Spencer W. Kimball wrote: "When one considers marriage, it should be an unselfish thing, but there is not much selflessness when two people of different races plan marriage. They must be thinking selfishly of themselves. They certainly are not considering the problems that will beset each other and that will beset their children."

So you can't fight prejudice because of prejudice?

Then, as now, some people said that their own definition of traditional marriage was predicated on denying the rights of others to marry.

Baccus0902
Leesburg, VA

Me dear DN Subscriber 2;

I would admire your ability to predict the future. Unfortunately, your predictions have a logic flaw and border on (or is) paranoia.

The question has been asked a million times and remains unanswered. In what way same sex marriage affects "your" heterosexual marriage?

In twenty, forty or a hundred years from now heterosexual marriage still will be the majority or marriages. Same sex marriage still will be a minority. This follows the historical percentage of homosexual population in any society.

We may see that less heterosexual marriages go into divorce. See, less homosexuals will enter into heterosexual marriages just to fulfill somebody else's expectations.

More children will live in two parents families. More children will be adopted and live in families who really wants them. As somebody remarked in this paper, children of LGBT are not caused by accidents. They are wanted and loved.

Your religion beliefs will be protected and respected as long as you don't attempt to create a tiranny of any particular religion, as many have tried.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

Well now that gay people can marry each other I don't see the point of myself getting married anymore. -no straight person ever

Ophelia
Bountiful, UT

DN Subscriber 2

Just a bit confused? Orwellian? George Orwell abhorred orthodoxy and tyranny -- whether big government, big business, or big religion. Orwell would have welcomed marriage equality.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

While I generally support the legalization of gay marriage as a civil rights issue, it should not be perceived as an unmitigated blessing. Divorce has produced more messed up kids that ever before in history. Gay marriages are even more fragile that heterosexual ones. This means even more divorce. So there is clearly going to be some collateral damage among children. This is something to think about.

Contrarius
mid-state, TN

@marxist --

"Gay marriages are even more fragile that heterosexual ones. "

Legal gay partnerships actually appear to break up at roughly HALF the rate of straight partnerships, from the data we have so far.

"In the states with available data, dissolution rates for same-sex couples ...ranges from 0% to 1.8% annually, or ***1.1% on average***, whereas 2% of married different-sex couples divorce annually."
-- from "Patterns of Relationship Recognition by Same-Sex Couples in the United States", published in 2011 by the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law.

If you oppose promiscuity, then you should SUPPORT gay marriage. Marriage ENCOURAGES monogamous, stable relationships.

If you oppose divorce, then you should SUPPORT gay marriage.
--1. Legal gay partnerships appear to break up at roughly 1/2 the rate of straight marriages.
--2. In 2011, 4 out of the 10 states with the **lowest** divorce rates allowed gay marriage.
--3. NY, CT, IA, VT, NH, and MA all have **lower** divorce rates after legalizing gay marriage than just before.

Gay marriage is GOOD for "traditional" marriage. It enables people who want to HONOR the tradition of stable monogamous relationships to do so.

Sneaky Jimmy
Bay Area, CA

Whats next is full acceptance in all 50 states. And the LDS church is there..whether they know it or not. Their statement on all boys should be in the boy scouts put them down the correct path.

very concerned
Sandy, UT

One post suggests that *Hopefully, religious leaders will choose to follow the higher spirit of their laws. In a country that some claim to be a Christian country. Perhaps, more churches will realize the mistake of their ways and will become more inclusive and accepting of nature, God and all his children."

To the contrary, the spirit AND letter of the law of chastity always has been, and will remain, abstinence outside of heterosexual marriage. The Lord puts particular emphasis on this in all His scripture, teaching that breaking this law is one of the most serious of all transgressions and will lead to unhappiness.

It isn't my law nor is it yours. It is His. We can't wish or legislate it away. We need more churches who will hold the line on this important doctrine.

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