Comments about ‘BYU football: Sophomore QB Taysom Hill ready to take the reins of Cougar offense’

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Published: Friday, June 28 2013 1:00 p.m. MDT

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poyman
Lincoln City, OR

Here's are some of my favorite numbers for you AZutie,

8...That's the number of seasons out of the past 41 that your team has had a better record than BYU... That's less than once every 5 seasons... And 39 of those seasons(95%)your team was in the same conference as BYU...

15... That's the TOTAL number of times that your team has beaten BYU in the past 41 games (41 seasons)against each other... that is a winning percentage of 36.6%... Your team has done better against PAC12 opponents over the past 2 years than your team has done against BYU the past 41 years. Of those 15 games, 4 of them came under BYU coach Gary Crowton who ran our program into the ground and Mendenhal is still picking up some of the pieces.

3... That's the number of games that your team is picked by Las Vegas Odds Makers to win this year (out of a 12 game schedule)...

8... is the total number of wins that BYU is picked to win this year... and "1" of those 8 is against Utah.

In short... Utah's supposed dominance is a little less than overwhelming.

mussingaround
Palo Alto, CA

Uteology

"Anyway you spin it, bottom line is Utah played a tougher bowl schedule and went 10-1, BYU played a weaker bowl schedule and went 6-5."

Utah's bowl schedule was soooo tough, that only 4 of Utah's 10 bowl winning teams were considered good enough to be ranked in the final Top 25. Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but the only people impressed with a mediocre Utah team beating an even more mediocre opponent in a bowl are Utah fans.

Win or lose, SIX BYU bowl teams finished in the Top 25.
Only FIVE Utah bowl teams achieved the same accomplishment.

Despite your jealous whining, BYU was better where it really counts, in the final polls.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

poyman--

"In short... Utah's supposed dominance is a little less than overwhelming."

Please....In short, you evaded me on what I posted down below!

That's cool, since, in reality, my comments literally said it all!

Finally, by golly, if PRE-season predictions go against UTAH/in favor of 2-Star byu, as you yourself claimed in your previous post, then what's the point of even playing the games in 2013?

This sort of wishing something to happen, so desperately, since the alternative appears to be utterly unbearable, is what I also witnessed prior to last year's annual UTAH victory over 2-Star byu!

The final margin predictions for 2-Star byu over UTAH grew to the point of being so utterly obscene/outrageous, some by 4-5 TDs and they weren't kidding, so extensive was the frenzy they'd worked themselves into!

I kid you not, a large contingent of the 2-Star byu fanbase had reached the point of believing beating UTAH was a forgone conclusion and, instead, were debating eachother as to how many more wins it'd take, 'til 2-Star byu moved into the Top 10 rankings! Seriously!

Remember, UTAH 4 straight recently, from 2002-2005!

BlueHusky
Mission Viejo, CA

@Hondo,
Uh, those coaches from last year's offense are gone. Your point is ... what?

@steelute. Good post, good questions. Speaking as a Washington grad and a fan of UW and BYU, who has been watching PAC12 and BYU football since 1960, I can answer your questions from my perspective.

I'm very happy about independence. At UW, I always looked forward to the non-conference games, especially against big name opponents. Of course, it would sting when we lost, but we won our share. I first noticed BYU when they beat Oregon State in Portland after OSU had beaten the nation's #2 teams twice in a row. The Holiday Bowls were always on my list and I became a huge BYU fan. Lavell Edwards revolutionized college football.

I was living in Omaha when Nebraska lost to Pitt (I think) and opened the door for BYU to win that NC. I watched BYU beat Michigan and UW beat Oklahoma. BYU #1 and UW #2. Didn't get better than that. Now that's how they rank in my heart. BYU is special, and I've come to really appreciate it. No knock on any other school, but BYU is unique.

poyman
Lincoln City, OR

@ AZutie,

Why do you cover your posts with boastful words but never back them up with facts?... I gave you hard numbers... Facts.

You actually make me smile... You refer to BYU and it's Fan Base as a two star program... If we're two star what would Utah be? Seriously?... I've pointed out how your team has been obliterated in head to head competition with BYU over the years and how BYU has done far better in the PAC than Utah (with the actual numbers)... Facts.

The reference on the predicted outcome of the 2013 game is Marc Lawrence's Playbook released this month... BYU is favored by an 8 to 5 ratio... Utah is suppose to win 3 games this year and BYU is suppose to win 8.

You don't like preseason predictions that go against Utah but you want to make hay on Rivals Recruiting Ratings... That my friend is hypocritical...You see the number of stars that you get from Rivals for recruiting doesn't count as wins... You actually have to play the games... And, with the help of guys like Taysom it's easy to see why they think BYU is the stronger team... Yet again.

poyman
Lincoln City, OR

Great post Blue Husky... I too went to both schools... I have a Bachelors from BYU and an MBA from the U of Dub... And that is exactly how those two teams rank with me as well... BYU #1 and U of Dub #2...

poyman
Lincoln City, OR

@AZute

I had pointed out in a previous post that some of the wins that Utah had in the past decade came under Crowton's tenure... You pointed out 4 wins in a row in early 2000... Three of those were Crowton years... Our team was the worst that it has been during the last three years of Crowton's tenure...

BTW, another subject... Why would you get so excited about a 3 star qb from a small high school who gave a committment to the Utes??? If he were a 5 star or even a 4 star I could see the justification for the excitement... But he is a 3 star...

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

poyman--

"You actually make me smile... You refer to BYU and it's Fan Base as a two star program... If we're two star what would Utah be? Seriously?... I've pointed out how your team has been obliterated in head to head competition with BYU over the years and how BYU has done far better in the PAC than Utah (with the actual numbers)... Facts."

LOL....I literally don't know what else to point to, except to go back/carefully read what I previously posted, as I straight factually blew-up each and every one of your Spin-based "points"! I can't force you to acknowledge what's directly before your eyes in black-and-white! I sense enormous frustration rapidly growing within you, but this wasn't my intent, merely the natural by-product of remaining Spin-free in each and every one of my statements! Also, I quoted Scout, not Rivals!

Among other points, you didn't comprehend, for a reason only you know, this difference when playing PAC-12 schools in a week-in, week-out grind! Another point you somehow missed, was the breakdown of 2-Star byu's 2-3 record against The PAC-12!

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@azute

Where's aaron sharp?

LOL!

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

"They serve as an interesting talking-point to little extent, but otherwise serve exclusively to entertain the masses, nothing further! Some may prove to ultimately fall "within the ballpark", but many don't even achieve this! Even fewer achieve 100% accuracy or even resembling it, if any whatsoever!"

Now take that quote and apply it to your "star" ratings...a little food for thought. Stars mean nothing, production on the field is what matters. That's why BYUs last CONSESUS All American was a 0 star walk-on. Maybe if U worried less about stars and more about production you could actually swim with the sharks in your big boy league rather than relegated to the kiddie pool with your floaties.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

cougsndawgs--

"Now take that quote and apply it to your 'star' ratings...a little food for thought. Stars mean nothing, production on the field is what matters. That's why BYUs last CONSESUS All American was a 0 star walk-on. Maybe if U worried less about stars and more about production you could actually swim with the sharks in your big boy league rather than relegated to the kiddie pool with your floaties."

I'm not even remotely "worried" about Stars! HaHa. I'm more than pleased with the fact we're clearly trending upward in our recruiting! Thanks for your concern!

What continues evading 2-Star byu fan, in general, is what transitioning into PAC-12 inherently requires, in order to successfully compete in its fundamental week-in, week-out grind of a schedule, namely upgrading overall talent-level/building legitimate depth! Not being close yet to our targeted depth was especially exposed early during last season!

We UTES welcome/are thrilled about this overall-challenge, yet must endlessly explain to 2-Star byu fan who refuses to acknowledge this fact! No comparison in schedules, whatsoever! Since exiting MWC, this is our reality, thankfully, but NOT 2-star byu's!

[Cont'd]--

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

cougsdawgs--

"Now take that quote and apply it to your 'star' ratings...a little food for thought. Stars mean nothing, production on the field is what matters. That's why BYUs last CONSESUS All American was a 0 star walk-on."

I'm sure a solid football player, but in order to successfully navigate a week-in, week-out grind of a schedule, a team's overall talent-level would reflect kids, across-the-board and beyond starters only, on this kid's [per your reference] same level of play, not merely a few such players on the team's entire roster!

Reality is 100% contrary to the position 2-Star byu fan traditionally wishes to debate from, but from which zero legitimate consideration is ever given and, invariably, always descends into a non-sensical woven mess of pure Spin!

In other words, reflecting reality means giving full-credence to such things as SOS/legitimate week-in/week-out grind of a schedule and the fundamental requirement in successfully transitioning into The PAC-12, namely escalating overall talent-level, building legitimate top-to-bottom depth, both of which mandate multiple recruiting classes constituted by the majority being significantly higher rated recruits! All being 100% irrefutable!

poyman
Lincoln City, OR

AZutie... We have both laid out our cases of BYU vs Utah through the years... The people who read them will be moved one way or the other... I personally think that my numbers are far more convincing of Utah's lack of dominance than your rambling verbage supporting such dominance...... But the readers can decide that...

I am not frustrated at all... You can't teach those who refuse to learn...

I think that I clearly pointed out that pre-season predictions are educated guesses on what will happen based on what the experts see... It doen't always happen as predicted, but more times than not it does...

What's amusing to me is that you cling to the judgement of so called experts in rating potential recruits and use that as the soul criterion for determining the quality of a team... But, you won't have anything to do with Odd's Makers (also considered experts) who predicte how a team will do in a game before it's played... It seems to me that if one is legit then the other also is legit...

Odds Makers say BYU is again the better team... And I agree.

SportsFan
Orem, UT

AZUTE1

What would a Ute know about SUCCESSFULLY navigating the week-in, week-out grind of a PAC schedule? You've had two straight losing seasons and haven't beaten a single PAC opponent with a winning record.

It's laughable how Utah fans used to beat their chests about being to hang with the big boys just a couple of years ago, but now, the only thing we hear from the kids on the hill is whiny excuse-making about SOS. Your week-in, week-out grind doesn't explain why you had a complete melt down at home against one of the worst teams in the country to blow a gift-wrapped PAC South.

The truth is, you're all talk, but no walk; at least WSU and Colorado enjoy the company.

BigCougFan
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I love reading the comments from the Ute fans on the BYU stories. Their comments give me better chuckles than I could get from the funny pages. Chris B., AZute, and the others could make a good living on the comedy circuit. But the facts prove they don't know the sports they spout off about.

Go Cougars!!!!

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@mussingaround

Utah's bowl schedule was soooo tough, that only 4 of Utah's 10 bowl winning teams were [ranked] ...Win or lose, SIX BYU bowl teams finished in the Top 25.

--------------

That's because BYU lost and Utah won. I don't think you understand how final rankings work. Let me give you some examples:

2001 #23 Louisville 28 #16 BYU, If BYU had won, Louville would drop from top 25.
2005 #31 Cal 35 BYU 28 ... Cal finished #25 by beating BYU.
2006 $24 Georgia Tech 10 Utah 38 ... IF Utah lost, Georgia would have remained ranked.
Same for #28 SM loss to Utah and #16 OSU loss to BYU.

FACT: During the BCS era, 36% of Utah’s bowl opponents were ranked in the AP top 25 and 55% in the AP top 30.

FACT: Over the same period, 27% of BYU’s bowl opponents were ranked in the AP top 25 and 36% in the AP top 30 (55% in top 35).

The difference, Utah went 10-1 (91%) and BYU 6-5 (55%).

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

@mussingaround

Win or lose, SIX BYU bowl teams finished in the Top 25.
Only FIVE Utah bowl teams achieved the same accomplishment.

Despite your jealous whining, BYU was better where it really counts, in the final polls.

---------------

Jealous of what? Unlike you I didn't buy a $20 "Quest for what our Rival did Twice" t-shirt.

Again, Utah didn't "Quest" for anything BYU did in the BCS era. We're not impressed with BYU's accomplishments.

So spin away, but 50,000 BYU fans that bought the t-shirts think 2 undefeated, top 4, BCS bowl seasons is more impressive enough to "Quest" for.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: Uteology

The Quest t-shirts were $5, not $20 and 99% of BYU fans will tell you that slogan was a mistake. Mendenhall would probably agree. Setting your sites on a national title is a good idea. Creating a slogan that can easily be taken the wrong way is a bad idea. "Questing for Perfection" was a good idea but a dumb thing to put on a t-shirt. The other slogans the Cougars have had have been pretty decent (Band of Brothers, 2012, 2006; Raise the Bar, 2007).

Rockwell
Baltimore, MD

Uteology

So you're saying that Utah's goal for 2008 was to finish with multiple losses, so they missed their goal by finishing undefeated?

Unfortunately for U, your best, was only 2nd best, in ONE poll.

Call us when U actually win the ultimate prize - a national championship!

Marked it Down
Park City, UT

Uteology

You're obviously having a hard time understanding that the subject is where BYU's and Utah's bowl teams finished in the polls, NOT where their bowl opponents finished.

The main reason only 4 of Utah's 10 bowl winning teams (40%) managed to finish in the Top 25 is because the Utes simply weren't very good to begin with. A mediocre MWC also ran like Utah barely beating an even more mediocre PAC 10 also ran like USC(6-6) obviously didn't impress anybody except Utah fans.

By comparison, 4 of BYU's 6 bowl winning teams (66%) and 2 of BYU's 5 bowl losing teams (40%) all managed to finish in the Top 25.

It's laughable that during Utah's greatest period ever, the bcs era, BYU's bowl losing teams were just as likely to be ranked in the Top 25 as Utah's bowl winning teams.

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