Comments about ‘Attention now turns to Utah's Amendment 3’

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Published: Thursday, June 27 2013 6:45 p.m. MDT

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Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Please explain how the state of Utah will defend against this: "Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and Judicial Proceedings of every other State."

Oh, btw, that is part of our US Constitution.

amazondoc
USA, TN

@Walt --

"If these Liberals believe that all forms of marriage should be recognized..."

Straw man. Nobody has made this claim.

1. polygamy -- polygamy creates concrete dangers to citizens. Public safety has always been a valid legal argument for limiting personal freedoms.
-- For details, look up the 2011 case in Canada, which easily reaffirmed the constitutionality of their polygamy ban -- even though they've had gay marriage for years now.

2. adult incest (adult siblings, adult parent/children) -- illegal in every state because of public safety concerns. Not only is there the question of undue influence/coercion amongst close relatives, but also the risk of genetic defects in offspring is very high (roughly 30-40%).
-- For details, look up any of SEVERAL recent court cases, in both state and Federal courts, which have very clearly and uniformly declared that homosexuality rulings DON'T apply to incest.

3. child incest/pedophilia/bestiality -- children and animals are incapable of giving informed consent. Therefore, they can't sign marriage contracts. Informed consent is a bedrock principle of all our contract laws. It can't be removed.

4. In contrast, gay marriages **don't** convey any special risk to public safety.

sandyj
Brigham City, UT

If Supreme Court is saying same sex partners have to be treated equally with the Federal Government, they will be able to file "married filing joint" on their income tax returns. What's that going to do to the states that do not recognize them as married when filing their state returns? In Utah, the state return is tied to the federal return. I see lots of problems for the states along these lines.

trueblue87
Provo, UT

They are just trying to impose laws from other states on the state of Utah. This is in essence similar to someone trying to come from Nevada and arguing that Utah should allow gambling because he likes to gamble and he wants to live in Utah. If you don't like the laws here in Utah, live somewhere else. That is the beauty of living in the United States, if you don't like certain aspects of one state, you can move to another.

Joan Watson
TWIN FALLS, ID

When any nation, past or present, elevates law over prophecy, they may have the day - but eventualy confusion and disaster follows.

Noodlekaboodle
Poplar Grove, UT

You want to do a funny exercise? Go look up anti interracial marriage arguments from the 50's and 50's. Then every time you see the word interracial, replace it with homosexual. Then come back and tell me whats different about the argument. Also, why are we having a theological argument about secular law? If you have religious values you are allowed to practice them. But when did your religion become the law of the land? It's not up to the Mormon, Catholic, Southern Baptist or any other church to make the laws. In fact, I'd like someone to explain how making laws based on Christianity are any different than Sharia Law in the middle east, you know, beside the fact that it's YOUR religion, not a "scary" Muslim? And, if you need more proof pull out your Bible and read John 18:36, that's coming straight from the source. What more do you need?

Moderate
Salt Lake City, UT

Want to reinforce marriage values? Outlaw divorce.

I imagine quite a few of those in favor of Amendment 3 just squirmed in their seats at the idea of no divorce.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Trueblue - read the full faith and credit clause of our constitution. There is a hue difference between laws and public acts, records, and judicial proceedings. How would you like to go to CA on a vacation and become single while there?

If Utah can invalidate their marriages, so can CA invalidate those that took place in Utah. Don't forget to take their drivers test to get a CA license too!

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@CP
"The state of Utah came to be when LDS Pioneers came to establish a place where they can worship God and obey His laws..I pray that the government of this state will not forget that!"

Depends... do you think being able to do that involves imposing your view of His laws on everyone else? If that's the case then you will lose your theocracy. If you think being able to do that involves the church deciding which couples they want to marry, don't worry about that. We have protections against discrimination based on gender and religion but you still are allowed to have an all-male priesthood and only marry LDS couples in the temple.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Mom Johnson
"I can see it now...........more and more LGBT couples will move to Utah so that their voting voices will be heard. They will move because of that soul reason"

No... nobody moves to a location because of that reason. Besides, everyone knows the Supreme Court will declare same-sex marriage a nationwide right long before Utah ever gets around to voting for it much like the south had to be dragged kicking and screaming to have interracial marriage.

Mr.Glass
Salt Lake City, UT

Traditional morality is nothing to celebrate if it means that people of the same sex are not allowed to marry each other. The most comprehensive study regarding families of same sex families concludes that children are just as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted. In fact, they are happier and get along better with others? Can anyone guess why that would be the case? Why would children of heterosexual couples not get along as well as children as same sex couples? Does it have anything to do with parents teaching their children to become bigots based on religious dogma. Seems plausible to me. The claim that children lose with respect to same sex marriage is not supported by evidence.

We need to base our judgements on sound reason, not religious dogma.

Henry Drummond
San Jose, CA

Is marriage an institution defined by each State or is it a National institution?

Ironically Utah made it into a National institution by their nineteenth century practice of polygamy.

Gay marriage will be coming to Utah - and soon.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Where are the fathers? Fortunately, people will now be compelled to think about something before all of this came to the fore, states' rights. This is a states' rights issue, just as the any other issue, including the causes of the Civil War! We didn't need to have 600,000 people die in the Civil War to get rid of the evils of slavery. Slavery existed because of the negligence of fathers to teach principles of right and wrong. Same with Gay marriage. Where are the fathers?

patriot
Cedar Hills, UT

re:Henry Drummond

...and Henry if gay marriages comes to Utah and the rest of the nation why not polygamy too? We need to not discriminate right? Love is all that matters correct? Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor brought this very point up during the oral arguments for gay marriage a few months ago. She made the conclusion that if homosexual marriage is ok constitutionally then by the SAME EXACT reasoning so is Polygamy and one cannot legalize one without the other.

so Henry ... are you ready for polygamy? 30 wives? What about a woman with 30 husbands too? It's all about fairness and love ...right Henry?? I suspect the gay crowd won't bee too keen on opening up to polygamy and neither will all the Hollywood flakes. I suspect the nation will have to swallow pretty darn hard when then have to think about living next to a polygamy household.

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

@patriot

As long as everyone in the relationship is a consenting adult, and inheritance issues can be worked out, I really don't care who or how many.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "Tekakaromatagi" I am still trying to figure out how you strengthen marriage by redefining it? Marriage has been defined as a union between a man and a woman. Now, it is being redefined as 2 of whatever you want. So, by redefining it this way, what is to stop the eventual acceptance of plural marriage in whatever form it may take?

To "Wilf 55" the LDS church will never change its stance on gay marriage and homosexuality. If you think they will, you obviously don't understand LDS doctrine.

To "RanchHand" you don't understand Jesus at all. Just look at the idea behind the Children of Israel. Using your rational, that is bigotry to choose one family out of the earth to make special deals with. Even look at the time Jesus was on the earth, he had little tolerance for those who sinned without remorse. Why should his followers embrace sinful behavior?

To "amazondoc" actually polygamy is a help to women. If you read closely what you referred to, it is the culture of the FLDS church that is damaging, not polygamy.

amazondoc
USA, TN

@Red --

"actually polygamy is a help to women. If you read closely what you referred to, it is the culture of the FLDS church that is damaging, not polygamy."

You need to "read closely" yourself.

From Judge Bauman's decision: "Polygamy's harm to society includes the critical fact that a great many of its individual harms are not specific to any particular religious, cultural or regional context. They can be generalized and expected to occur wherever polygamy exists."

Keep trying, Red.

I don't know whether my previous message is going to post or not, so I'll also repeat something I said earlier:

You: "She made the conclusion"

Judge Sotomayor did not make ANY conclusions. She ONLY asked a question -- and acting as Devil's Advocate is her JOB during oral arguments. I'll repeat, NO conclusions were made.

Lane Myer
Salt Lake City, UT

Polygamy will take a form never seen before, if it becomes legal. Women will be able to marry as many men as they want to too.

A woman could be a wife, step-mother, sister-in-law and aunt to the same man with both sexes as equals. It would be interesting...

QuercusQate
Wasatch Co., UT

Gays destroy traditional marriage just like Rosa Parks destroyed bus-riding.

phillyfanatic
LONG BEACH, CA

As a senior, step parent, married for 32 years, grandad, and pastor , college teacher who is a Christian, I am tired of minorities telling Americans that because they feel their lives are UNFAIR, that all laws, creeds, definitions must be changed because : we are angry and will wail unless you do. Our American heritage, Consti, history and values are built on 9000 years of history, tradition and yes, even Biblical views. 10% of the public should not b e able to call those of us who hold the above views, evil, rotters, biased because we do not want the definition changed. Either should Utah or any of the 38 states who still believe in traditional values. I say, fight this chaos. Stop caving into the secular, the perverse, the popular just because pressure is put on politicians. Keep up the fight Utah. And I live in the soviet republic of Ca. so I am helpless here but pray for your fight.

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