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BYU football: ESPN critical to BYU's scheduling efforts as an independent

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  • GD Syracuse, UT
    June 25, 2013 7:11 a.m.

    Why do comments always down downing the Y or the Utes. They're both good schools. They both have fans that we all would like to ignore because of their obnoxious comments. Seriously I like to see all of the Utah schools do well against good opponents. Utah has a recruiting advantage which in the long run will probably make them a stronger school. However the Y is starting to get some interest from recruits not LDS which should help them get stronger as well. I enjoy good football and basketball especially when played here in Utah. I hope the schedules don't get so strong that we can't compete.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 24, 2013 6:06 p.m.

    Uteology:
    "It has NOTHING to do with "The great teams don't back away from anybody". I know it's hard for BYU fans to understand this concept specially since we canceled the series".

    Yes it does have to do with "not backng away from anybody" as evidenced by other rivalries (outside of ND and Texas) that have been maintained despite difficult schedules in different conferences. I've already established why ND and Texas/TAMU have had to stop, if only for awhile. It's actually a very easy concept to understand for BYU fans...Utah doesn't want to play another difficult opponent (which uteanymous so thoroughly pointed out using Hills own word). You don't see Georgia backing down from GT, or Florida backing down from FSU. Or Kentucky backing down from Louisville....every team that doesn't have the issues ND and Texas have, has maintained their non conference rivalries. In the end, I don't care...as AZUTE wants to say about BYU, Utah does absolutely nothing for BYU in terms of national respect, recruiting or anything else...I do enjoy the rivalry, but it wouldn't hurt BYUs brand not having it.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 24, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "A school such as FSU, however, benefits us significantly, recruiting-wise,..."

    bwaaahaha!

    Fresno State has TWO lifetime AP Top 25 finishes - #24 1992 and #22 2004.

    For a program like Utah, which only has FIVE lifetime AP Top 25 finishes themselves, that probably sounds pretty "competitive".

    Of course, we all know that your recruiting spin is nothing but a frantic and emotional smoke screen. The ONLY reason the Utes dropped BYU to play FSU, was because Hill didn't think the Utes were good enough to handle playing Michigan and BYU in the same season.

    In Chris Hill's own words:

    "What we have to do is make sure we don’t come close to overscheduling," he said.

    In Hill’s mind, playing both Michigan and BYU in the same years would have put the Utes in that situation.

    "I can’t expect us to play 11 really, really difficult games in a season," he said.

    Hill wasn't talking about Utah's annual Big Sky opponent, in those 11 really, really difficult games, and he mentioned 11 only because he didn't want imply that WSU and Colorado are really just patsies, which clearly, they are.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 24, 2013 3:51 p.m.

    Outside of things pertaining strictly to a Rivalry [i.e., bragging-rights, securing our annual gimme W against 2-Star byu, etc.], 2-Star byu offers us ZERO benefit, ZERO.

    A school such as FSU, however, benefits us significantly, recruiting-wise, which was the primary reason they were strategically-targeted for a series, particularly with our return-game scheduled for 2015, when we're at USC/UCLA at home and, while still pending confirmation of our 2-YR rotating North schedule, a game against Stanford would also be at home. Unsure about CAL, although should they return to our schedule, our 2012 game against them was at home.

    My point is, in addition to being a competitive program/team, they're located in fertile recruiting-ground and it offers yet another incentive/selling-point for us in being able to play another game in front of family/friends.

    Notching our annual gimme W against 2-Star byu is rapidly becoming less-and-less meaningful, especially when considering the big picture and the actual impact of the schools we schedule [i.e., Michigan for obvious reasons]!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 24, 2013 2:46 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    Yes I am seriously suggesting that historical rivalries mean nothing when it comes to conference realignment regardless of the teams involved.

    It has NOTHING to do with "The great teams don't back away from anybody". I know it's hard for BYU fans to understand this concept specially since we canceled the series.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 24, 2013 12:50 p.m.

    Uteology:
    Let me get this straight. Are you seriously suggesting Utah's situation is similar to ND/Michigan, or Texas/TAMU? First of all Michigan isn't NDs only rival, and they are keeping their biggest rival on the schedule, USC. Having to schedule 5 ACC games has caused them to evaluate ALL their rivalries and look for solutions (hardly the case with Utah and their ONLY rival...one could argue Utah state but I don't believe Utah really thinks the aggies are a rival).

    Second, there's bad blood between Texas and TAMU and neither side is willing to budge for the other. Thats the reason for the stoppage in their rivalry, not because theyre great teams "backng away from each other". Last I checked, there isn't bad blood between Holmoe and Hill...they both "want to get it done". You're comparison is obviously apples to oranges.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 24, 2013 11:11 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs

    West Point , UT

    My favorite quote:"The great teams don't back away from anybody"--Tom Holmoe
    Hopefully Chris Hill heard that and saw it for the jab at Utah it unintentionally was...or was it?

    ----------

    I hope Chris Hill heard that at started LOL, then pointed Holmoe to great teams like:

    "Notre Dame will not be playing Michigan from 2015 to 2017. The school informed Michigan in September that it is exercising its three-year out clause and is taking a hiatus from the rivalry game series that was first played in 1887."

    "The rivalry began in 1894, when Texas blanked A&M 38-0, and continued through the 2011 season. [The rivalry took a hiatus in 2012]."

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 24, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    iNKSpot

    Will the Utes ever get another shot at beating Westminster College for the first time?

    ekute

    The Utes can't even beat WAC teams; what makes U think they could compete in the CFL?

  • iNKSpot Wilsonville, OR
    June 23, 2013 2:15 p.m.

    Will the Cougars ever get another shot at beating Iowa State for the first time?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 23, 2013 1:27 p.m.

    Utah might settle for 2 games at RES and 1 in Canada if byu pays all expenses and mr. hall wears a Block U Hat and a Drum And Feather sweat shirt. lol.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 23, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    Any byu "fan" that can't admit to head to head domination is in deep delusional denial and is only fooling themselves.

    Rumor has it that construction has started to turn les it into an international rugby and soccer stadium. lol.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    June 23, 2013 12:16 p.m.

    ekute

    "Neither team needs the other...but...any future meetings will be on Utah's terms."

    Any future meetings will be on mutually agreed upon terms, which means they'll either be home-and-home or NOTHING!

    During the Bronco/kyle era, Bronco has finished with a better record and higher ranking (which includes SOS) than kyle 5 of 8 seasons.

    13 of the last 16 games have been decided by a touchdown or less in the final minutes of the game or in overtime.

    Any delusional utah fan who believes that proves any sort of domination by the utes is only fooling themselves.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 23, 2013 9:49 a.m.

    @scenic view

    I didn't say Utah was in a position to make demands on byu.
    Neither team needs the other...but...any future meetings will be on Utah's terms.

    Sooth you're own fragile ego by pretending that Utah is running from a 20 year domination, 8 out of the last 11 and 3 years in a row. lol.

    Rumor has it that holmoe is giving up on independent football and focusing on an international soccer team. lol.

    Go Utes.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    June 23, 2013 5:36 a.m.

    ekute

    "BYU is not in a position to make any demands on Utah."

    And neither is Utah in a position to make any demands on BYU.

    BYU built its legacy without any help from Utah, and the Cougars will continue building on that legacy with or without Utah being included in the picture.

    If the Utes want to run away and hide from the rivalry, the Cougars will be just fine. It's obviously that to soothe your fragile egos, U need us much more than we need U.

  • Rockarolla West Jordan, UT
    June 22, 2013 11:10 p.m.

    ESPN is the best network when it comes to college football. BYU is lucky to have such a partner. Plus ESPN is on Direct tv, which is the best satellite or cabel company for sports. I would live the see the PAC 12 get a deal done but I won't drop Direct tv just to see PAC 12 games. The trade off isn't worth it. Maybe if the Utes could start winning I might have a change of heart. For now I'll take BYU on ESPN and direct tv.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 22, 2013 9:46 p.m.

    Utah and byu are not scared of each other, nor is either team scared of any other team.

    Dr. Hill dropped byu from his schedule because he can. He stuck it to you. Simple as that.

    Utah is in a position to set the terms for any future meetings,
    and byu has the free agency to accept or decline.

    byu is not in a position to make any demands on Utah.

    Go Utes.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 22, 2013 8:10 p.m.

    RE: WACPaddingOurSchedule

    "Why is BYU scared to play Colorado? Probably because they are 3-8-1 all time against them."

    I repeat that your head-to-head slams are indeed pretty weak. BYU has won six of their last eight against San Jose (2-1 since 1970, and their last lost was to a ranked SJSU), and has won three of the last four against Colorado (2-0 since 1970).

    Utah, on the other hand, has won three of their last 14 against Colorado (1-1 since 1970), and is 14-12-2 all-time against WAC powerhouse Idaho (0-1 since 1970).

    Of course these are all meaningless stats, but are simply meant to show how easy it is to make stats say whatever you want them to. Is BYU scared of Utah's new rival Colorado? Of course not, they would destroy them. Is BYU scared of San Jose? No, but they didn't expect such a great SJSU team last year. Obviously BYU does not shy away from great competition. Check out their schedule this year: Texas, Notre Dame, Wisconsin.

    Utah, on the other hand, dropped BYU in favor of Fresno State. Which team is scared of who?

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 22, 2013 7:52 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    "Why is BYU scared to play Colorado?"

    LOL!

    Now you're just frantically and emotionally making stuff up.

    What makes you think BYU would be scared to play a team that the Cougars have beaten 3 of the last 4 times they've played and haven't lost to since a 7-9 setback in Boulder SIXTY-FIVE years ago???

    In their last two meetings, BYU dominated Colorado in Boulder 41-20 and beat the Buffs in the Freedom Bowl 20-17?

    btw, regarding that PAC 12 Washington team that owns the Utes 0-8,

    BYU is 4-4 versus the Huskies, including three straight wins during the BCS era.

    BYU is obviously much more competitive against the PAC 12, than that WACish program on the hill.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 22, 2013 7:27 p.m.

    scott
    Alpine, UT

    WACpaddled

    Yes, let's look at last season. The Utes were denied a bowl game because they couldn't beat the only WAC team on their schedule. Only two WAC championships during 37 years in the conference. Only one bowl game during your first 30 years in the conference. Not a single AP Top 25 finish in your first 100 hundred years of football. You were owned by the WAC, and still are. Nothing more than a WACish team wearing at PAC 12 logo on your jersey.

    __________

    Why is BYU scared to play Colorado? Probably because they are 3-8-1 all time against them.
    Well, you gotta do what you gotta do to preserve that WAC Legacy that BYU fans are so proud of.
    Nothing more than a WACish team wearing a ?????? logo on your jersey.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 22, 2013 7:25 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    Closer to home, the Utes are owned...

    by Washington 0-8
    by ASU 6-18
    by Oregon 8-18
    by UCLA 2-9
    by USC 3-8
    by Oregon St 6-10
    by Colorado 25-31
    by California 4-5
    by Stanford 2-3

    Since you haven't beaten a single PAC 12 team with a winning record since joining the conference, it may be time to reconsider joining a conference in which you're so hopelessly out classed across the board in every sport except women's gymnastics.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    June 22, 2013 6:54 p.m.

    ImaCaMan

    "I have lived all over the country and outside of the ward houses, most people know nothing about BYU."

    Then you obviously don't get out much wherever you've lived.

    ------------

    WACpaddled

    Yes, let's look at last season. The Utes were denied a bowl game because they couldn't beat the only WAC team on their schedule. Only two WAC championships during 37 years in the conference. Only one bowl game during your first 30 years in the conference. Not a single AP Top 25 finish in your first 100 hundred years of football. You were owned by the WAC, and still are. Nothing more than a WACish team wearing at PAC 12 logo on your jersey.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 22, 2013 5:01 p.m.

    ImaCaMan

    Oceanside, CA

    Thanks for the comment. I didn't want to accuse anybody of being less than truthful(specially not a byu "fan").

    Go Utes.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 22, 2013 4:16 p.m.

    Wiscougarfan
    River Falls, WI
    RE: WACPaddingOurSchedule

    "San Jose St. owns BYU 10-6 all time. Thanks ESPN!"

    You've gotta love it when trolls have to reach back 50-60 years to find a slam. While you're at it, what about Utah's all-time records versus the Salt Lake City YMCA? I'll help... they own you 5-1 all-time. Have a nice day.

    ____________

    LOL! Look no further than last season. You know, the prime time game on ESPN where BYU lost to San Jose St. What an investment!
    Have more cheese with your whine!

  • ImaCaMan Oceanside, CA
    June 22, 2013 2:54 p.m.

    Re:ekute

    Agree. I have lived all over the country and outside of the ward houses, most people know nothing about BYU. Many know they are located in Utah and confuse them with the U. Now the one billion fans in China, I cannot speak as to their likes.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 22, 2013 2:13 p.m.

    RE: WACPaddingOurSchedule

    "San Jose St. owns BYU 10-6 all time. Thanks ESPN!"

    You've gotta love it when trolls have to reach back 50-60 years to find a slam. While you're at it, what about Utah's all-time records versus the Salt Lake City YMCA? I'll help... they own you 5-1 all-time. Have a nice day.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 22, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    deductive reasoning
    Arlington, VA
    SoonerUte

    LOL at your spin.

    BYU isn't just trying to help other teams look good, BYU's goal is to become even more nationally relevant themselves.

    I know that's a hard pill for the BYU haters to swallow, but BYU is embarking on a course to increased national relevance that our little friends on the hill could only dream of.

    BYU has never shied away from playing the big boys. The Cougars have been playing OOC opponents like Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Miami, Florida St, Penn St, USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Alabama, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame (many of them at home) for decades.

    BYU - Independent
    Utah - dependent

    ___________

    What does national relevance mean to you?
    BYU is dependent on all of D1 football to schedule games. More at risk for cancelled contracts as we have already seen.
    Utah belongs to a conference where a majority of their schedule is made each season.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 22, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT
    @nightowl

    "Guaranteed is one thing, winning is another."

    Good point 5-7 and 7-11. Losers.

    ___________

    Right! It's fun to be on TV. But losing against ranked teams on a continual basis does wonders for ratings.

    San Jose St. owns BYU 10-6 all time. Thanks ESPN!

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 22, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    You're not making any sense.

    If BYU's primary goal, as you say, is exposure, then what could possibly bring more exposure than winning another national championship?

    Playing big name teams on the national stage = good exposure
    Beating big name teams on the national stage = better exposure
    Winning another national championship in the playoffs = best exposure

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    June 22, 2013 11:50 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    LOL at your spin.

    BYU isn't just trying to help other teams look good, BYU's goal is to become even more nationally relevant themselves.

    I know that's a hard pill for the BYU haters to swallow, but BYU is embarking on a course to increased national relevance that our little friends on the hill could only dream of.

    BYU has never shied away from playing the big boys. The Cougars have been playing OOC opponents like Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Miami, Florida St, Penn St, USC, UCLA, Washington, Oregon, Stanford, Alabama, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame (many of them at home) for decades.

    BYU - Independent
    Utah - dependent

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 22, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    @deductive reasoning

    I was just having fun in response to Mr. Bass. Why didn't you respond the same to his comment?

    Go Utes.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 22, 2013 10:56 a.m.

    Rockwell, consider that BYU's primary goal is exposure.

    From the article: "the renewed emphasis on strength of schedule... will help the Cougars set up more high-profile games with opponents from all over the nation, Holmoe said."

    Holmoe hopes that teams with national championship desires will beef up their non-conference schedule using a team like BYU. In other words, Holmoe sees BYU as a stepping stone for OTHER teams to get to the playoffs. Its a great role for BYU which gets exposure (primary goal) for the program. But if BYU upsets too many, then the major teams will quit scheduling BYU, and the exposure drops.

    Its a difficult balance. BYU needs to beat enough teams to look like a strong mid-major, so that they look attractive to a major team's non-conference schedule. If BYU scheduled too many majors (required for an NC run), they might lose too many games, and negatively affect strength of schedule for the major teams. Thus my conclusion that BYU is not really interested in an NC run. Short term glory would be bad for long term business.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    June 22, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    ekute

    There's little point in speculating about undefeated seasons when U can't even beat a conference foe with a winning record.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 22, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    If there was an undefeated Utah and an undefeated byu, Utah would be ranked above byu because of our Pac12 schedule and affiliation.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 22, 2013 9:39 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    "As you Cougar fans are drawn in to the usual Utah-BYU dribble, you ignore the article. You should read it. It lays out for fans very clearly that BYU is not interested in playing for another national title."

    It's interesting that someone who doesn't understand the difference between "dribble" and "drivel" would be lecturing Cougar fans on not understanding what the article said.

    From the article:

    "Holmoe knows that to be nationally relevant, BYU — especially as an independent — needs to have a perennially attractive schedule.

    "We’re aiming to have a really good schedule that will look good and feel good, where the pundits and the people that are going to be determining who goes to the playoffs feel that it’s a good enough schedule to have a great season," he said.

    Building BYU's program and schedule to the point that it's considered good enough for BYU to be invited to the playoffs (and hence, compete for a national championships) are clearly the ultimate goal Holmoe and BYU are aiming for.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 22, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    If there was an undefeated Oklahoma and an undefeated BYU, the voters would get byu #1 based on the ESPN contract.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 22, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    ekute

    "Tell the truth, outside of the LDS community, is BYU discussed any more than Utah?"

    Much more!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 22, 2013 8:18 a.m.

    @skywalker

    Palo Alto, CA

    "On the other hand, I see BYU fans all the time and often hear BYU sports being discussed, even amongst PAC 12 fans."

    Would that be in the ward house? lol.

    Tell the truth, outside of the LDS community, is byu discussed any more than Utah?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 22, 2013 7:43 a.m.

    @nightowl

    "Guaranteed is one thing, winning is another."

    Good point 5-7 and 7-11. Losers.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 22, 2013 7:19 a.m.

    Heisman, Maxwell, Outland, Walker, O'Brian and Baugh trophies, are nothing more than fluff to Ute Nation?

    National Championship, Legendary HOF Coach, 23 Conference Championships, College Hall of Famers, Consensus All-Americans, etc.. More fluff?

    Stands to reason for Ute fan, what U will never attain, you can never really fully appreciate.

    BYU's achievements constitute a "Legacy".
    A resume, if you will, of generations of achievement.

    BYU has checked the necessary boxes, over decades, to become a National Brand and Legacy school. And Utah, despite it's backdoor approach, has not.

    While taking 50 years to win it's first Outright Conference Championship, Utah had 6 good years.
    and now all they have to boast of is a fraternity patch.

    Now the rubber has met the road and U are the road.
    Your "Mask of False Bravado" has been removed and U have taken Wazzu's place as your Conference doormat.

    BYU will march to the beat of "their" drummer....
    Because.........
    THEY CAN!

    As for BYU's exclusive deal with ESPN, only Notre Dame has such a deal with a "Major" Network..
    BYU plays on a Major Network nearly every game. While Utah is rarely "chosen" at all.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    June 22, 2013 12:46 a.m.

    Who needs ESPN when you have blow torch networks like PAC-12 Network and Fox Sports 1?

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    June 21, 2013 11:59 p.m.

    BYU will win 9 gmes this year... Utah may not win 3... If Utah played BYU's schedule this year, they would not win 3...

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 21, 2013 11:06 p.m.

    NightOwlAmerica:
    "Call it what you want, there is nothing "exclusive" about the ESPN contract. If that was the case, BYU would be the only college game on the network. It's just an agreement between BYU and ESPN. There are many games that gained higher TV ratings than BYU".

    Exclusive means ESPN has exclusive rights to BYUs home games. It also means BYU is the ONLY program in America that has a PARTNERSHIP with ESPN, not just a contract. That's what Sports Fan was saying (if not he can correct me). Who knows what you're talking about above, but ESPNs contract with BYU is indeed exclusive. If that WEREN'T the case anyone else would have a partnership with them, and any other network could compete with them for home rights to BYU games.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 21, 2013 10:25 p.m.

    SportsFan said:

    ".....But unlike BYU, who is guaranteed to be on ESPN, Utah has to wait for the ESPN/FOX/PACnet lottery to find out if they've been found worthy of an appearance on ESPN."

    Guaranteed is one thing, winning is another. Something BYU seems to have in front of a national audience.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 21, 2013 10:18 p.m.

    BYU sports on TV in Missouri said:

    "All you have to do is compare the award winners list to see which program has the most national recognition.

    BYU... Doak Walker award, Davey O'Brian awards, Heisman Award, Maxwell Awards, Outland Trophys.

    Utah... Home Depot Award to Coach Urban...

    Luke Staley won more national awards in one year than the combined total of Utahs players since Utah started playing football. Ouch... That's gonna leave a mark..."

    Compair all you want. All that fluff you are talking about, has never given BYU an official conference invite the past 40+ years.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 21, 2013 10:16 p.m.

    SportsFan said:

    ".....BYU's partnership with ESPN is a symbiotic relationship (look it up) that was created with the plan already in place for ESPN to help broker made-for-television games for BYU. What's good for BYU is good for ESPN.

    It's gotta be tough for jealous Utah fans to finally be coming to grips with the fact that the World Wide Leader considers BYU to be such an attractive sports product that ESPN willingly signed BYU to an exclusive 8-year contract.

    ESPN executives have stated many times since how thrilled they are to have BYU as a partner."

    Investors will say anything to make their investment look good. Especially since BYUs TV ratings were not great last season.

    Call it what you want, there is nothing "exclusive" about the ESPN contract. If that was the case, BYU would be the only college game on the network. It's just an agreement between BYU and ESPN. There are many games that gained higher TV ratings than BYU.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    June 21, 2013 9:47 p.m.

    SportsFan said:

    "Hondo

    If rankings don't mean anything, then why do Utah fans beat their chests every time Utah beats a ranked team?

    * crickets *"

    Probably because BYU has a horrible record against ranked teams the past several years.

    Go 2013 ranked opponents!

    *blame the refs*

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 9:04 p.m.

    CG says... "Ironically, Utah isn't even considered a top-10 team"

    I don't recall the article mentioning anything about Utah. My comments certainly didn't. The topic is BYU and their schedule.

    As you Cougar fans are drawn in to the usual Utah-BYU dribble, you ignore the article. You should read it. It lays out for fans very clearly that BYU is not interested in playing for another national title. Oh sure, if the game were handed to them, yes they would participate. But those days are over. Now teams have to earn your a spot in those games, and as both Tom Holmoe and Bronco indicate, they're not interested in putting together a schedule that puts them on that path.

    So, yeah, I totally get why you'd want to change the subject.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 21, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    Hondo,

    Would you believe me if I told you that I actually don't live in Riverton, and actually haven't for almost a decade?

    Your head-to-head comment was also a little inaccurate, but people have already pointed out the weakness in that argument.

  • BYU Furnitureman Lebanon, MO
    June 21, 2013 7:33 p.m.

    It was no secret that BYU going independent was going to present some challenges with the schedule. If BYU wins more games it will probably get harder. BYU will probably have to string together 4-5 really good seasons in a row against good teams to get over the hump so that the rewards of playing BYU outweigh the downside of losing to BYU. ESPN has been a good partner. Glad to have them on board.

  • redfeather Palo Alto, CA
    June 21, 2013 7:32 p.m.

    Dr Rush

    Thanks for your opinion. Coming from a "USC fan", I guess we're supposed to be impressed with your vast football knowledge.

    btw, what's "biker" got to do with discussing football?

  • Dr Rush Saint George, UT
    June 21, 2013 7:04 p.m.

    ESPN is embracing BYU for one reason and one reason only they have a big following which makes for better ratings, Same reason Norte Dame has an exclusive with NBC. Since I'm a USC fan you guys can biker back and forth about the BYU vs Utah thing, but just in observation Mendenhall is one of the worst coaches in D1 and because of that BYU with him at the helm will never play in a meaningful bowl game.

  • BYU sports on TV in Missouri Lebanon, MO
    June 21, 2013 6:19 p.m.

    All you have to do is compare the award winners list to see which program has the most national recognition.

    BYU... Doak Walker award, Davey O'Brian awards, Heisman Award, Maxwell Awards, Outland Trophys.

    Utah... Home Depot Award to Coach Urban...

    Luke Staley won more national awards in one year than the combined total of Utahs players since Utah started playing football. Ouch... That's gonna leave a mark...

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    June 21, 2013 6:07 p.m.

    Hondo

    I live near and work with hundreds of Stanford, California, UCLA, USC, Washington, Oregon and other PAC 12 fans and I can honestly tell you that Utah is the invisible man in the Bay Area.

    Except for an occassional Utah fan wearing a Utah hat or t-shirt with a PAC 12 logo, you wouldn't know that the Utes are members of the conference.

    NOBODY even mentions the Utes.

    On the other hand, I see BYU fans all the time and often hear BYU sports being discussed, even amongst PAC 12 fans.

  • Hondo Scottsdale, AZ
    June 21, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    "Utah will be playing Weber State this coming season. But I'm trying to take a higher road than some of my Utah counterparts by not mocking them for it."

    Yet, you brought it up. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Utah is playing Weber State. There, I said it too. However, it's one thing to play one or two easy games and quite another to play the soft schedule BYU has played the past two seasons.

    I can't wait to watch BYU play a more rigorous schedule (even though it still won't be as challenging as Utah's) and lose.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 21, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    "PAC 12 also has new contracts with ESPN and Fox."

    But unlike BYU, who is guaranteed to be on ESPN, Utah has to wait for the ESPN/FOX/PACnet lottery to find out if they've been found worthy of an appearance on ESPN.

    The following BYU games have already been scheduled for national broadcast - remember, the BYU-ESPN contract only applies to BYU home games:

    at Virginia - ESPNU
    Texas - ESPN2
    Boise St - ESPN
    at Notre Dame - NBC
    at Utah St - CBS SportsNet
    at Nevada - CBS SportsNet

    Utah's current broadcast schedule:

    Utah St - FOX Sports 1
    Weber St - PACnet
    Oregon St - FOX Sports 1
    UCLA - FOX Sports 1

    Fortunately for U, the BYU-Utah game is at LES, so you're guaranteed at least one appearance on ESPN.

  • Hondo Scottsdale, AZ
    June 21, 2013 5:44 p.m.

    Must have struck a chord with you, given that a lot of the comments are directed at me. I love it!

    Busta,

    "I hate to burst the Utah bubble but I live and work smack in the middle of PAC and have for 15 years. I can tell you that the rest of your beloved conference barely know you exist and hardly even talk about you. Theydo however enjoy the easy wins. Utah makes WSU look like a powerhouse."

    Your credibility goes right out the window when you claim to live outside of Utah, but your screen name suggests you live in SLC. Oops. If you live in SLC everything you said is complete garbage. If you really live elsewhere, one has to question why you claim you live in Utah, but really don't. All other "claims" you make are rubbish.

    Then you go on to claim that you've lived in PAC country for 15 years. Utah has been in the PAC for 2. Not sure what your point is. As for the WSU comment, Utah has beaten WSU both years so I'm not sure where you're going with that comment and I bet you don't either.

  • CG Orem, UT
    June 21, 2013 5:36 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    "Right now we’re not a top-10 team." -- Tom Holmoe

    Ironically, Utah isn't even considered a top-10 team...

    in their conference!

    ESPN's Pac-12 future Power Rankings
    1. Oregon
    2. Stanford
    3. UCLA
    4. Washington
    5. Oregon State
    6. USC
    7. Arizona State
    8. Arizona
    9. California
    10. Washington State
    11. Utah
    12. Colorado

    ouch!

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 21, 2013 5:20 p.m.

    Chiro

    "It seems like ESPN felt like they had to step in to protect an investment. ESPN probably didn’t have faith in BYU to make their own schedule and stepped in to help."

    It seems you're simply grasping at straws.

    BYU's partnership with ESPN is a symbiotic relationship (look it up) that was created with the plan already in place for ESPN to help broker made-for-television games for BYU. What's good for BYU is good for ESPN.

    BYU has a long-standing relationship with ESPN, in fact, the BYU-Pittsburgh game that opened BYU's 1984 National Championship season was the first nationally televised college football game on ESPN.

    It's gotta be tough for jealous Utah fans to finally be coming to grips with the fact that the World Wide Leader considers BYU to be such an attractive sports product that ESPN willingly signed BYU to an exclusive 8-year contract.

    ESPN executives have stated many times since how thrilled they are to have BYU as a partner.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    June 21, 2013 5:07 p.m.

    To Chiro:

    Had you been paying better attention, you would already know that ESPN wasn't stepping in to protect anything, since they never have broadcast any of the New Mexico and Idaho level of games played by BYU, nor will they in the future.

    I'm a bit surprised that you haven't yet noticed that many big teams, even Oklahoma and Notre Dame play a few gimme games every year. FYI: Utah will be playing Weber State this coming season. But I'm trying to take a higher road than some of my Utah counterparts by not mocking them for it.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    June 21, 2013 4:58 p.m.

    OK... attempt #2, toned down.

    To Hondo:

    If BYU is so irrelevant as you contend, then why do you and other Ute fans get so very excited whenever Utah happens to beat them? Seriously, why would beating BYU define the entire season for so many Utah fans if they considered BYU irrelevant? It's because obviously BYU is not.

    And yes, one team can beat another and not be the better team. The Jazz beat the Spurs this season, but no one with any savvy considered the Jazz the better team... except maybe just on that particular day. And so it is with Utah and BYU.

    There is an ebb and flow to the ongoing rivalry. Utah beat a very close game last season based on fewer turnovers. Before the current mini-run, BYU beat Utah 3 out of 4 games. It goes back and forth. Neither "owns" the other as some fans tout.

    However, what will some die-hard Utah fans talk about after both USU and BYU beat them this year and especially if Utah still can't qualify for a bowl game? It will change the entire nature of these comment boards.

  • Ute buster Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 4:45 p.m.

    I hate to burst the Utah bubble but I live and work smack in the middle of PAC and have for 15 years. I can tell you that the rest of your beloved conference barely know you exist and hardly even talk about you. Theydo however enjoy the easy wins. Utah makes WSU look like a powerhouse.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    June 21, 2013 4:26 p.m.

    Hondo writes:

    "because it's a painful reminder that you're not as important as you think you are."

    That's rich.

    So let me get this straight. You improperly used the BYU coaches name to illicit just such a response from a BYU fan, on a BYU comment Board, on a BYU article, then you want to lecture to a BYU fan that they are not as important as they think they are?

    So by you using the improper name of the coach and being disrespectful, and a BYU fan correcting you, it is a reflection on the BYU fans about their teams importance?

    Wow, can't argue with that logic.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    June 21, 2013 4:07 p.m.

    To Hondo:

    If BYU is so irrelevant as you say, then why do you and other Ute fans get so extremely excited whenever Utah beats them? Seriously, why would beating BYU define the entire season for so many Utah fans if BYU is irrelevant? It's because obviously they are not.

    And yes, one team can beat another and not be the better team. The Jazz beat the Spurs this season, but no one with any sense considers the Jazz the better team... except maybe just on that day. And so it is with Utah and BYU.

    There is an ebb and flow to the rivalry. Utah beat a very close game last year based on fewer turnovers. Before the current mini-run, BYU beat Utah 3 out of 4 games. It goes back and forth. Neither "owns" the other as some tout.

    Chiro:

    Try to become informed. ESPN never has broadcast any of the New Mexico or Idaho type games that BYU (like most other big programs) use for filler. Nor is there any plan to. Did you forget that Utah is playing Weber State this season?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 4:04 p.m.

    "Right now we’re not a top-10 team." -- Tom Holmoe

    That sets the tone for making a schedule. Since they're not a top-10 team, they don't need to worry about impressing the BCS or Playoff committee. They can focus on the number one goal of exposure, which means playing in different parts of the country and parking the Granite Flats HD Truck in exotic locations.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 21, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    Between the $6M to $8M per game and ESPN, I personally know of several 5 star recruits coming to BYU because of ESPN.
    ESPN has made it clear that BYU is the best program in the US.

  • giantfan Farmington, UT
    June 21, 2013 3:13 p.m.

    Hondo,

    You're right, head-to-head is everything. That's why in 2011 Colorado was a better team than the Utes. It doesn't matter that the Buffs finished 2-10 and the Utes finished 8-5. It's also proof that 2007 UNLV was the better team than Utah, even though they finished 2-10 and their only other win was against 2-10 USU.

    But then there's the example of 2011 where Alabama won the national championship by beating LSU. The conundrum is that LSU beat Alabama earlier in the year @ Tuscaloosa! How is it even possible that LSU could've lost to Alabama after proving they were better by beating them just a couple months before? Perplexing.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 21, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    Hondo

    "If head-to-head does not indicate which team is better, then why even play games?"

    Who was better in 2007, Utah(9-4) or UNLV(2-10)?

    Who was better in 2011, Utah(8-5) or Colorado(3-10)?

    Who was better in 2012, unanimously selected national champion #1 Alabama(13-1) or #5 Texas A&M(11-2)?

    Who was better in 2012, #2 Oregon(12-1) or #7/#6 Stanford(12-2)?

    If rankings don't mean anything, then why do Utah fans beat their chests every time Utah beats a ranked team?

    * crickets *

  • JCC75 SEATTLE, WA
    June 21, 2013 3:06 p.m.

    Love being able to see the Cougars play every week on TV here in Seattle. Let's make it a great year, Cougs!

  • Chiro Portland, OR
    June 21, 2013 3:02 p.m.

    It seems like ESPN felt like they had to step in to protect an investment. ESPN probably didn’t have faith in BYU to make their own schedule and stepped in to help. I guess ESPN got sick of BYU/New Mexico ST or BYU/Idaho on their channel.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 21, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    @silverstateute

    "Holmoe knows that to be nationally relevant, BYU — especially as an independent — needs to have a perennially attractive schedule." Correction, national relevance does not come from an attractive achedule. Beating "attractive teams" on the schedule (not teams from Idaho not named Boise) is what brings national relevance."

    I couldn't have said it better myself, but you're going to have a hard time convicing your fellow utah "fans" like lint, chrsitina, and howie of that fact. They seem to think it is all about your SOS and winning has nothing to do with it.

  • RojoRules SOUTH SALT LAKE, UT
    June 21, 2013 2:39 p.m.

    BYU could have a decent season next year if they could hold onto to their stout D and provide some good O. Even though they have the toughest schedule in years and have more BCS opponents than usual, they are still playing some weaker teams with Mid Tennessee, Virginia, GT, Houston, Idaho St, Utah St. and Nevada. If they can win all of those and pull out possible win with Texas and Nevada, then that will be success. Good luck cats.

    Honestly Utah is probably not going to have that great of a season. They have a stretch of 8 games starting at BYU and ending at Oregon that they could possibly lose every single one. Hopefully they can pull out two or three in there. Winning the BYU game may be the only thing we'll have to brag about by the end of the season. Though that game is going to be tough.

  • Hondo Scottsdale, AZ
    June 21, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    Messing with Texas,

    Oh the hypocrisy! You can't leave the Utes alone, either. And I'm sure that you frequently hit the Denver Post and LA Times, given how much time you spend on this site.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 21, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    spokaloo
    Adin, CA
    @Howard S

    Yes, ND is a 4 for 2 schedule. BYU has to do that because they are not ND. However, Utah has only been to South Bend. ND would not agree to play at Utah and never will. Utah is too small of a fan base, stadium, and lack of tradition. Like it or not, to even get ND to visit once is a compliment for BYU. Funny how a non-bcs school like BYU can get ND to visit, but a BCS school like Utah can't (although after next year, BYU and Utah are back on the same level playing field...no more BCS) Once ND starts scheduling Washington State, Iowa State and the likes for home and homes, Utah has hope.

    ________

    Why does Utah need to schedule ND to be relevant? They play in a BCS conference. BYU needs ND to get noticed.

    ND is playing Temple and Navy on the road in the future. They are non-BCS. So much for your BYU special treatment. With the new ND/ACC agreement, ND has already said they will play mostly road games in places with high catholic concentrations.

  • Hondo Scottsdale, AZ
    June 21, 2013 2:33 p.m.

    Fashionista,

    You're arguing against your own. I pulled that statement from one of yours. And your argument is a massive failure because you've presented a strawman. If head-to-head does not indicate which team is better, then why even play games?

    Troll,

    ESPN doesn't get Nick Saban's name wrong. BYU is irrelevant and you know it. Every time you read about Roscoe, it stings because it's a painful reminder that you're not as important as you think you are.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 21, 2013 2:32 p.m.

    RE: Howard S.

    “On the field Utah has a winning BCS record and BYU has a losing BCS record.

    Fact...”

    On the field BYU has a winning record against the PAC12 (9-8, .529) and Utah has a losing PAC 12 record (11-14, .440).

    Fact...

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 21, 2013 2:21 p.m.

    But seriously folks!
    Salt Lake City, UT
    ESPN is a great partnership. I am glad to see that they recognize a quality and a class-act program that they want to be connected to. The exposure is the best in the state, much better than the PAC 11+U network.
    GO COUGS

    ____________

    PAC 12 also has new contracts with ESPN and Fox.

  • TrollPolice Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    Hondo

    BYU's head coach is BRONCO!

    Only desperate BYU-haters from the hill would still be clinging to a typo made by an ESPN stringer TWO YEARS after the fact.

    Grow up already!

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    June 21, 2013 1:51 p.m.

    I really don't mind all the Ute comments, but what doesn't make sense to me is that many of U say U have moved on, and this isn't a rivalry any more, and U don't care about the Cougs; but yet U continue to comment. Occassionally, I pop open the Denver Post or LA Times. I have yet to ever see any of U comment on the articles about the Buffs or the Trojans. Face it, U can't leave the Cougs alone.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    ekute

    "What is ESPN going to think about BYU after the end of this season when they've experienced what it's really like to play a big boy schedule?"

    You might be very surprised. Stay tuned.

    It's obvious what the rest of the PAC 12 thinks of U - bottom dwelling patsies to pad their conference records.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    June 21, 2013 1:40 p.m.

    Gotta love ute trolls.

    They want everyone to believe that utah's 2004 and 2008 season and the 3 of 4 over BYU are set in stone indicators that they are a top tier, power house "BCS" team...

    All the while telling BYU fans, on BYU comment boards that their accomplishments for not only the past 8 years, but the past 28 years don't matter.

    Fine, here is the only things that matter, because college football changes every year!

    1. What did you do last season?
    2. What did you do in the last game?
    3. What did you do in the last head to head competition?

    and

    4. Conference Titles.
    5. National Championships.
    6. Individual national awards.
    Because they last forever.

    The reason utah's BCS bowls don't matter is because, well the don't matter.

    You can't name the 2002 second and third tier BCS Bowl winners without looking it up, because no one cares, unless your team was in it. No one cares who comes in 3rd place, or 4th. That's why ute fans thumping their chests about it is silly.

    No one cares outside of utville.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 21, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    MyPerspective:
    "You forgot Utah. I guess it's still a sore spot with the DN staff to put Utah and Pac-12 in the same sentence".

    Yep they forgot, just like the rest of the media around the country has forgotten U.

    "I can't wait to see what happens when Dr Hill tells Holmoe the next series will be a 2 for 1".

    I can already tell you...the rivalry won't happen for a long time. When Utah commands that kind of respect then maybe Holmoe will talk about it, but that's certainly not the case now. Who knows maybe that's the hold up to future scheduling?

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 1:34 p.m.

    DistortedPerspective

    And where would U be without the PAC 12? You've obviously forgotten who televised some of Utah's games during their first year in the PAC before the PAC net existed.

    BYU didn't blindly choose to go Independent.

    As you'll recall, BYU announced its 8-year partnership with ESPN the same week it announced its Independence.

    BYU's backup plan is BYUtv, which has wider distribution than the PAC net.

    What would be your backup plan, KUED?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 21, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    To MyPerspective's point...What is ESPN going to think about byu after the end of this season when they've experienced what it's really like to play a big boy schedule?

    Go Utes.

  • Fashion Police Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 21, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    "Comparative scores aren't a great predictor of success against other teams."

    @Hondo: "Exactly! The best indicator for which team is better is who wins in a head-to-head game."

    Sorry, but your hill logic class failed U. There's absolutely no conclusion that can be drawn from the first statement that confirms the second statement.

    The best indicator for which team is better is overall record and ranking, unless you believe that Team Y(1-10) is better than Team U(10-1) just because Team Y won the head-to-head.

  • Hondo Scottsdale, AZ
    June 21, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    MUSS,

    Roscoe is your beloved head coach. At least that's what your committed TV partner, ESPN, thought his name was on one of its broadcasts.

  • jimmypage Meridian, ID
    June 21, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    @ MyPerspective

    "Sounds like byu would be no where as an independent without ESPN."

    Uhhh, are you just now figuring that out?? In other news, the sky is blue, the ocean is big, and ute obsession with everything BYU is alive and well.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 12:09 p.m.

    "Looking at future games that have been announced, the Cougars have scheduled teams from nine different conferences, including the Big Ten, the Big 12, the Atlantic Coast Conference and the Pac-12. Those featured on upcoming schedules include Virginia, Texas, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Michigan, Arizona and West Virginia." You forgot Utah. I guess it's still a sore spot with the DN staff to put Utah and Pac-12 in the same sentence. lol. I can't wait to see what happens when Dr Hill tells Holmoe the next series will be a 2 for 1.

    “lots of conversations, not a lot of takers...”

    "BYU has plenty of help with scheduling thanks to its broadcast partner, ESPN."

    Sounds like byu would be no where as an independent without ESPN.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 21, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    howie

    "On the field Utah has a winning BCS record and BYU has a losing BCS record."

    You're still hiding behind labels. Sorry to burst your delusional crimson bubble, but beating a losing team doesn't impress ANYBODY, regardless of whether they wear a "bcs" logo on their jersey or not.

    On the field - wins against teams with winning records
    Bronco 25
    Kyle 25

    On the field - losses to teams with losing records
    Bronco 4
    Kyle 6

  • Hondo Scottsdale, AZ
    June 21, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    "BYU is and always has been a 2nd tier power with a broad but shallow church based following... nothing more... nothing less."

    What's funny is when I see people in my neighborhood here in AZ sporting BYU gear and start a conversation about the upcoming football season and they can't even name players or basic facts about the program. These are your fervent fans, your "international" fanbase........

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 21, 2013 11:50 a.m.

    "In most cases [opposing coaches] say, 'No, I'm not interested in playing,' which is a compliment to our program." -- Bronco mendenmidmajor

    Is that so? Well, according to Jeff Call...

    "the Cougars have scheduled teams from nine different conferences, including the Big Ten, the Big 12, the Atlantic Coast Conference and the Pac-12. Those featured on upcoming schedules include Virginia, Texas, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Michigan, Arizona and West Virginia."

    So I guess those would be but a small sample of the schools that have absolutely NO respect for our Indy-WACey little brother.

  • Hondo Scottsdale, AZ
    June 21, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    "Comparative scores aren't a great predictor of success against other teams."

    Exactly! The best indicator for which team is better is who wins in a head-to-head game.

  • FelisConcolor North Salt Lake, UT
    June 21, 2013 11:47 a.m.

    One more thing: If anyone wants to see just how much "respect" the Utah program has among national pundits, then check out the college football page on ESPN.com where they predict the power rankings in the PAC-12 over the next three seasons.

    Where do they rank Utah? Near the bottom at #11, just above Colorado. It almost seems like the main reason Larry Scott invited Utah and Colorado was to give the rest of the conference the opportunity to pick up a couple of easy "BCS wins" every season.

  • FelisConcolor North Salt Lake, UT
    June 21, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    Howard

    I can understand why you would want to ignore reality, but Utah has been in a BCS conference now for two years and they haven't come close to having a winning record against BCS competition.

    Instead, they've suffered 7 double-digit losses to PAC-12 foes. That is more indicative of Utah's position relative to other BCS programs than Kyle's overall record against BCS teams while a member of the MWC.

    I can also understand why you would ignore the significance of last year's USU game. BYU fans didn't understand the significance of the 34-31 Utah win in 1993 either; they consoled themselves at the time with the fact they had clobbered Utah 14 out of 15 times prior to that game.

    In reality, the 2012 USU game showed just how much USU had improved, while it showed just how far Utah had fallen. It will become obvious to everyone that times have changed after the Aggies come in to RES this season and paste a blowout loss on the overconfident Utes.

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    June 21, 2013 11:41 a.m.

    Hondo

    "How does Roscoe feel about exposing himself on ESPN?"

    Who's Roscoe? Utah's latest QB experiment?

  • shorts Payson, UT
    June 21, 2013 11:41 a.m.

    RE:Snack PAC
    Olympus Cove, Utah

    I was talking BCS teams.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    June 21, 2013 11:39 a.m.

    RE:Howard S.
    Taylorsville, UT

    "Coulda-woulda-shouldas are meaningless."

    Yes, that said BYU would of won most of the that you are hanging your hat on. Utah has lost to more bottom feeders then BYU. Look at both team I would agree with Eagle and say BYU would not of done more then one game better(Colorado) more likely about the same. BYU and Utah are both good teams. Neither are great teams. BYU has had several Great teams in the past. Utah has had two Great team much more resent. Throw out the 54-10 game and pretty much all of the last 12 games between BYU and Utah were a toss up. I think there was another game Utah one easy don't remember if it was in the last 12 though.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 21, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    Here's the real bottom line:

    Best Seasons, based on rankings (which are the final measure of each season) and records

    1) #1/#1 BYU(13-0) 1984
    2) #2/#4 Utah(13-0) 2008
    3) #4/#5 Utah(12-0) 2004
    4) #5/#5 BYU(14-1) 1996
    5) #7/#7 BYU(11-1) 1983
    6) #10/#8 Utah(10-2) 1994
    7) #12/#12 BYU(12-1) 1980
    8) #12/#12 BYU(11-2) 2009
    9) #13/#11 BYU(11-2) 1981
    10) #13/#12 BYU(11-1) 1979
    11) #18/#10 BYU(10-3) 1994
    12) #14/#15 BYU(11-2) 2007
    13) #16/#15 BYU(11-2) 2006
    14) #16/#17 USU(11-2) 2012
    15) #16/#17 BYU(11-3) 1985
    16) #18/#18 Utah(11-2) 2009
    17) #20/#16 BYU(9-2) 1977
    18) #19/#18 USU(9-2) 1960
    19) #22/#17 BYU(10-3) 1990
    20) #22/#18 BYU(10-3) 1989

    Of the Top 20 seasons all-time for BYU, Utah and USU:

    BYU - 14
    Utah - 4
    USU - 2

    Bronco - 3
    8) 2006
    12) 2007
    13) 2009

    Kyle - 2
    2) 2008
    16) 2009

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 21, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    Snack PAC

    Top 25 ranking evidence of national power?

    What is a losing BCS record evidence of?

    What is a losing record to Utah evidence of?

    What is being snubbed in conference realignment evidence of?

    hint... not evidence of national power or relevance.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    June 21, 2013 11:30 a.m.

    The benefit for BYU's independence when coupled with the Espn contract is that they can schedule teams all across the country because these teams want non-conference nationally televised games.

    If BYU has a decent team and can get lucky with opponents that aren't spectacular, but have winning seasons at the end of november, BYU could get a shot at going undefeated and getting a playoff invite.

    As the schedule is made a couple years in advance, they have the risk of all opponents going sub 500 or the risk of all being top 25. Neither scenario is good for the team down south. That is why the scheduling is such a hard process.

    Utah on the other hand is always guaranteed to have top 25s, sub 500s, and several 8-4 or 7-5 teams on their schedule, but without the national exposure for most games. (Pac12 network is great, but not the same as espn2).

    BYU needs to always remember though, they are nothing without the Espn deal. Voters are much smarter now than they were in 1984 and won't vote on record alone (e.g. 2008 season)

  • jimmypage Meridian, ID
    June 21, 2013 11:27 a.m.

    Snack Pack,

    From one BYU fan to another, please please PLEASE don't refer to BYU as a National Power. I like your positive energy, but we're just not there yet. Trust me, no one wants it more than me, but lets not put the cart before the horse. It only feeds the ute trolls.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 21, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    eagle

    "To be fair how many games if BYU was placed in the PAC-12 instead of Utah, would the Cougars have won? When they can't beat Utah, you can't say they would do a lot better, right?"

    Comparative scores aren't a great predictor of success against other teams.

    Case in point:

    BYU crushed Georgia Tech 41-17 on the road (+24), Georgia Tech easily handled USC 21-7 in the Sun Bowl (+14), and USC beat Utah 38-28 in RES (+10), so based on comparative scores, BYU should have destroyed Utah by a score of roughly 58-10. Didn't happen.

    And, let's not forget, BYU beat USU, a team Utah lost to.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 21, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    @shorts

    Coulda-woulda-shouldas are meaningless.

    On the field Utah has a winning BCS record and BYU has a losing BCS record.

    Fact...

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    June 21, 2013 11:10 a.m.

    One thing to keep in mind, it is that BYU coaches and players are going grow and learn at a pace that will exceed other athletes due to the diversity of the teams they play year to year. The scheming and play calling is going to vary based upon different offenses and defenses from year to year. Whereas with the U, they will have the same teams and same schemes with new wrinkles from year to year. I'm not taking anything away from the U because I think their schedule and teams they play will be consistently more difficult, what I am saying is that I think this is good for the Y and their coaches and players.

    GO UTES!!

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 21, 2013 11:07 a.m.

    shorts

    "Kyle worse loss Colorado (3-10)"

    Close, but not quite.

    Kyle worse loss shut out by UNLV(2-10) 0-27, a team that only beat one other team, Utah State(2-10).

    Kyle has lost to TWO 10-loss teams in 7 years, almost as many as the three 10-loss teams BYU has lost to...

    in their entire history!

    In addition conference bottom-dwelling team Colorado and UNLV, Kyle also lost to MWC bottom dwellers New Mexico(twice), Wyoming and Colorado St.

    Bronco has never lost to a MWC bottom dweller.

    Overall, in wins against winning teams versus losses to losing teams

    Bronco is 25-4
    Kyle is 25-6

  • shorts Payson, UT
    June 21, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    It BYU played the same BCS team Utah played BYU would have a similar record.
    2004 utah beat
    Texas A&M (7-5) toss up weather BYU would win
    Arizona (3-8) BYU likely win
    North Carolina (6-6) BYU likely win
    Pittsburgh (8-4) BYU likely win this was a bad Pitt team Utah should of got a chance to play Auburn.

    2005 utah beat
    Arizona (3-8) BYU win
    Georgia Tech (7-5) BYU win

    2006 utah had no bcs wins

    2007 utah beat
    UCLA (6-7) BYU did win and lost
    Louisville (6-6) BYU likely win

    2008 utah beat
    Michigan (3-9) BYU win
    OSU (9-4) edge OSU
    Alabama (12-2) Alabama would kill BYU!

    2009 utah beat
    Louisville (4-8) BYU win
    Cal (8-4) toss up

    2010 utah beat
    Pitt (8-5) BYU likely win
    Iowa State (5-7) BYU win

    2011 utah beat
    GT (8-5) BYU win
    Pitt (6-7) BYU likely win
    OSU (3-9) BYU did win
    AZ (4-8) BYU win
    WSU (4-8) BYU win

    2012 utah beat
    Cal (3-11) BYU win
    WSU (3-9) BYU win
    Colorado (1-11) BYU win

    Where am I wrong?

  • eagle Provo, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    Sportsfan:

    To be fair how many games if BYU was placed in the PAC-12 instead of Utah, would the Cougars have won? When they can't beat Utah, you can't say they would do a lot better, right?

  • Hondo Scottsdale, AZ
    June 21, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    How does Roscoe feel about exposing himself on ESPN?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    @Duckhunter

    Winning 80% against 2nd tier competition creates an illusion of success that gets the attention of some uninformed poll voters.

    What really excludes BYU from national relevance it's losing record against the BCS including Utah.

    BYU is and always has been a 2nd tier power with a broad but shallow church based following... nothing more... nothing less.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 21, 2013 10:55 a.m.

    howie

    "Cougar fans do think they are a national power."

    Unlike that flash-in-the-pan program on the hill, the Cougars ARE a national power, as evidenced by their FIVE Top 25 finishes in the last 7 years!

  • silverstateute Las Vegas, NV
    June 21, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    "Holmoe knows that to be nationally relevant, BYU — especially as an independent — needs to have a perennially attractive schedule." Correction, national relevance does not come from an attractive achedule. Beating "attractive teams" on the schedule (not teams from Idaho not named Boise) is what brings national relevance.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    Losing to Utah doesn't matter because we're byu...but...

    Losing to Utah does matter because we're byu.

    LOL!

    Go Utes.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    RE:Howard S.
    Taylorsville, UT

    It looks to me BYU and Utah both beat sub .500 teams BCS teams and lose to BCS teams above .500.

    Utah has played more sub .500 team to their record is better when playing BCS teams. I will say Utah has beaten a four more BCS team with above .500 then BYU. And Utah has beaten 4 more .500 or below then BYU as well.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:35 a.m.

    Kyle best win Alabama (12-2) and BYU would of lost that game that year

    Broncos best win Oklahoma (8-5) and Utah might of won the game that year.

    Kyle worse loss Colorado (3-10)
    Broncos worse loss UCLA (6-7) BYU lost one and won one the same year.

    I was wrong a little earlier Kyle only lost 3 game to sub .500 teams I counted North Carolina twice.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    "We’re aiming to have a really good schedule that... the people that are going to be determining who goes to the playoffs feel that it’s a good enough".
    "This year has a better schedule maybe than next year. But I don’t think we can put together the perfect schedule every year."

    I hope Holmoe is not saying that this year's schedule is perfect. While it is BYU's toughest schedule so far, it won't get the attention of a future playoff committee. BYU's schedule needs to be even tougher.

    Holmoe notes that as strength of schedule gains emphasis, BCS teams will look to BYU for beefing up that component. That's 8 or 9 BCS conference games plus a tough BYU game in the hopes of that BCS team getting playoff attention. The same is true for BYU. They too need a schedule of 9 or more BCS teams. As a football fan, that would be great to see, but I don't think it will be possible to craft. November is always going to be a schedule killer.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    @howie

    Beating utah is not the sort of thing that makes a team nationally relevant. Not losing to utah helps in that a team does not have a bad loss to a bad program on their record but beating them doesn't do much to enhance a teams national relevance.

    The utah losses BYU has sustained over the last few years are easily the worst ones BYU has suffered because by losing to a program as mediocre as utah it has just confirmed to the voters and national pundits that BYU has been less than stellar themselves. No team that loses to a program the level of utah can reasonably expect to be taken all that seriously, at least no more than a lower rung top 25 team which is what BYU has been.

    The utah losses have not kept BYU out of the top 25, BYU's reputation is such that even a utah loss can't do that on its own, but it is an embarrassing enough loss to keep BYU out of the top 15. BYU definately needs to correct that if it wants to rise up from lower top 25 team to upper top 25 team.

  • Obama10 SYRACUSE, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:26 a.m.

    Will BYU fans start putting ESPN window stickers on their cars, just like the U fans put the PAC-12 window stickers on their cars?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:23 a.m.

    "Not every LDS is a byu fan but every byu fan is LDS."

    That's not entirely true; there are some posters on the DN comments and the ESPN conversation boards who are BYU fans but not LDS. There are probably more than those few.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    @Felisconcolor

    BCS cupcakes?

    You mean those same BCS cupcakes that beat BYU 54% of the time?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 21, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    @Felisconcolor

    Utah has beaten USU 10 out of the last 11.

    That's pretty regular.

    Utah has beaten BYU 8 out of the last 11.

    That's pretty regular too.

    Maybe the Cougar Nation should wait until they can beat Utah regularly before talking about their national relevance.

    And for that matter maybe the CN should wait until they can beat BCS teams regularly before talking about their national relevance.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    June 21, 2013 9:45 a.m.

    Who am I sir?
    Cottonwood Heights, UT

    I agree Utah looks to have a much harder schedule. We will have to see how the Pac-12 does.

    Howard S.
    Taylorsville, UT

    "An 80% winning record against WAC/MWC competition creates the illusion among Cougar Nation that they are a national power..."
    How can you fault BYU for winn 80% of there WAC/MWC competition when Utah did not win at the same rate when they were in those conferences?

    To answer Snack PAC
    Olympus Cove, Utah

    Kyle record for BCS team he beat 137-168 44.9% win record
    Kyle record for BCS team he lost to 110-84 56.7%
    Games lost to sub .500 BCS teams 4

    Bronco record for BCS team he beat 60-87 40.8% win record
    Bronco record for BCS team he lost to 110-84 56.7%
    Games lost to sub .500 BCS teams 1

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 21, 2013 9:34 a.m.

    @Virginians for BYU

    'Utah has already dropped to nothing on a national scale"
    Comments like this crack me up. lol
    What does that say for byu football the last 11 years. lol.

  • UtahBruin Saratoga Springs, UT
    June 21, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    Many of you are tearing down BYU only because you are a U fan. I get it, it's cool, that happens. But you know all to well that BYU albeit is not a National Power, they can compete and play with anyone on any given day. So they have had some down years in the past. I seem to remember some very down years for the U in the past. Also, where BYU appears to be making some strides in the upward direction, Utah seems to be falling in the wrong direction. Utah entered what was a weak PAC-10 South, Sorry true PAC-10 fans still do not recognize Utah and Colorado. They did alright but continue to slip further down the ladder. USC will bounce back from their slip, UCLA is on the rise, Washington is making forward strides, WAZZU I am sure will be back with the new air attack, the Zona's are always in and out, and where does that leave Utah, at the bottom...again. Sorry but get use to staying home in December and January.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 21, 2013 9:28 a.m.

    "Hopefully no one takes the jabs and poking fun too seriously." 100% Agreed!

    I too appreciate a sensible comment from either side once in a while...then their are those like thebigsamoan that come of as being sensible but always end their comments with a jab at Utah. lol.

    Now...back to the fun...Everyday you byu "fans" tell us that losing to Utah means nothing because blah, blah, blah. Then you turn and tell us that it is important that we play each other and that we're scared??? Typical arrogant byu "fan" frantic emotion. lol.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 21, 2013 9:09 a.m.

    Ekute:
    We're talking about football here...Portland and SF don't have football teams. As for NMSU they're up there with weber state, Montana St, and northern Colorado...ya know easy wins for Utah (and BYU). Now what exactly were you trying to say?

    I was pointing out that Utah is similar to wazzu, AZ, and Georgia Tech in terms of commanding home and homes. Do you seriously dispute that? Howie is under the impression that Utah is bigger than those teams and can command 2 for 1s from BYU when those programs haven't/can't. I don't believe Utah has the same clout as ND, Texas, Nebraska, and Wisconsin. If you disagree, fine, but you might want to bring more to the discussion than comparing BYU to bottom tier FBS or non existent football programs.

  • FelisConcolor North Salt Lake, UT
    June 21, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    Howard, Whitt's winning percentage against BCS cupcakes while in the MWC is irrelevant.

    Whitt's winning percentage against real BCS teams is the more accurate indicator of the strength of Utah's program, and in that regard he's not doing too well: 7-11, or winning percentage of 39%. Add in the predicted 2-7 record in the PAC this year, and he'll be at a pitiful 33%.

    But it does provide a clue as to why you like to troll BYU articles so much.

    Oh, and when you can start beating USU on a regular basis again then perhaps you can brag about your BCS record.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 21, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    Cougar Files:
    "Let's not take offense when none is intended. I think CO Ute's comment was fair and actually countered some of the prior comments by those trying to find a jab at the U in Tom's comments".

    I agree with you. I brought up Holmoe jabbing the utes saying it was "unintentional"...then saying, "or was it?". I was just having a bit of fun but I think others (CO Ute) took it more seriously than intended. I like to rib ute fans and have fun with it, but I've made it clear before that I think they are a great school and a class organization. Hopefully no one takes the jabs and poking fun too seriously.

  • Cougar Files Roosevelt, UT
    June 21, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    Sammyg

    I think CO Ute was not bashing the Y, he was countering Utes that are suggesting Tom was dissing the U for not scheduling the Y. I think he was pointing out that any school with a tough non-conference schedule is less enthusiastic about scheduling the Y (and that would include Utah). In years where they have a lighter schedule, most schools (including Utah) feel that BYU increases the strength and intrigue of their schedule - ergo a slot is found in future seasons.

    Let's not take offense when none is intended. I think CO Ute's comment was fair and actually countered some of the prior comments by those trying to find a jab at the U in Tom's comments.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 21, 2013 8:23 a.m.

    And byu is up there with the likes of New Mexico State, Portland, San Francisco etc. Precious. lol.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 21, 2013 8:06 a.m.

    Howie:
    "Like other BCS teams I think Utah should schedule BYU on a 2 for 1 basis".

    Why exactly should BYU do this? They are home and home with GT, home-neutral-home with Arizona, home and home with Washington State. Oh wait...you must be under the impression that Utah is up there with ND and Wisconsin, Texas and Nebraska. Isn't that cute. Lol

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 21, 2013 8:04 a.m.

    These comments are great stuff. Here's a gem...

    spokaloo
    "Utah is too small of a fan base, stadium, and lack of tradition. Like it or not, to even get ND to visit once is a compliment for BYU."

    Before you speak, you should make sure you know what you are talking about. Holmoe said a couple weeks ago that he has heard nothing from ND regarding the planned visits to byu and there is nothing on the schedule, yet. ND is entering a quasi-conference relationship with the ACC which will limit their flexibility with their future schedules. Apparently, you don't know that but Holmoe is well aware. In time, we will find out just how important byu is to ND. Until then...

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 21, 2013 7:55 a.m.

    @CougarColby
    Fort Benning, GA

    Cougar fans do think they are a national power.

    An 80% winning record against WAC/MWC competition creates the illusion among Cougar Nation that they are a national power...

    That illusion is crushed when they step on the field and post a losing record against the big boys of the BCS.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 21, 2013 7:52 a.m.

    Who am I sir?

    Pre-season SOS rankings are no more accurate than pre-season team rankings.

    Last year at this time, USC was projected to be a national championship contender. Check the final rankings from 2012. Do you find USC listed anywhere in the final polls?

    The point is, NOBODY, including you, can make any definitive determination on whether Utah's or BYU's schedule will ultimately be rated more difficult, and more importantly, which team will have greater success in 2013.

    ---------

    Howie

    You're still dodging and hiding behind labels, proving that Kyle's record against "quality bcs opponents" is nothing but a house of cards built on wins against weak, losing teams like 1-11 Colorado.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 21, 2013 7:50 a.m.

    Like other BCS teams I think Utah should schedule BYU on a 2 for 1 basis.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 21, 2013 7:23 a.m.

    @SportsFan
    Orem, UT

    A 46% winning percentage against BCS teams proves that Bronco's Cougars are nothing more than paper tigers.

    They beat 2nd tier competition in the WAC/MWC with an 80% winning percentage... but when they play the big boys they lose more than they win.

  • baddog Cedar Rapids, IA
    June 21, 2013 6:10 a.m.

    I'm glad I re-read the headline. I thought at first it said ESPN was critical "of" BYU scheduling. What a difference a preposition makes.

    Boys, boys, boys (and maybe girls): All your carping at each other doesn't mean doodly squat. It's what happens on the field. Both schools have admirable programs. Dissing each other and each other's school just isn't classy. Entertaining sometimes, but not classy.

    Who really cares about the statistics. They're flung around here like they prove what the future will bring. I'm just guessing that there might be more benefit from much less interest in the past (can't change it from what I know) and more anticipation for what is coming in the future.

    But, hey. Where can a guy such entertainment for such a low price?

  • CougarColby Fort Benning, GA
    June 21, 2013 6:07 a.m.

    For anyone, whether BYU fan or not, thinks that BYU is a national powerhouse is crazy. They aren't there yet. ESPN has provided us with the opportunity to play upper tier teams because of the brand "ESPN" and the coverage. It has something to do with our fan base and filling a stadium. That being said, they don't necessarily schedule BYU because of the football program. Yes, we won a NC in '84 and had a string of great QBs. But that doesn't come to mind of many ADs or college programs in 2013. Notre Dame is about the only program (maybe Alabama) that can rest on its laurels. I am a die hard Coug fan, but we need to be realistic about who we are, currently. The U won't play because it doesn't do much if they win, and if they loose it is REALLY bad. They don't have anything to gain, except local recruits, who they feel they can get due to the PAC-12. BYU needs to worry about BYU and winning their tough schedule this year, that's it!

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    June 21, 2013 12:05 a.m.

    i would like a hint or two about who the last game will be on the 2014 schedule. it needs to be a great one to make up for another wise very average schedule.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 20, 2013 11:42 p.m.

    CO Ute

    "Seem to me that Utah scheduled Michigan which is clearly a really, really good team outside of their really, really good conference."

    Seems to me that Utah scheduled Fresno State.

    All we get these days from you Uteville residents is excuses.

    And by the way... U'll be home for Christmas... a new holiday tradition.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 20, 2013 11:22 p.m.

    ekute

    If the sole measure for success was beating Utah, Bronco would only be a so-so 3 of 8.

    Fortunately for Bronco and BYU, and unfortunately for our BYU-hating friends on the hill, beating Utah is only a small part of the overall measure of BYU's football success.

    BYU fans enjoyed an exciting game in San Diego during bowl week this past season to extend BYU's bowl-winning streak to four, and BYU's bowl appearance streak to eight straight seasons. BYU is fast approaching their 2nd double-digit bowl appearance streak, an accomplishment that the Utes will likely NEVER see from that johnny-come-lately program on the hill.

    btw, how was your bowl week?

  • idaho cougar fan Twin Falls, ID
    June 20, 2013 11:20 p.m.

    2 years ago when U of U was invited to the Pac 10, I said they would eventually become just like the other BCS doormats (Arizona, WSU, Iowa St., Northwestern, Vanderbilt etc..)and become forgotten AGAIN in the college football scene. I love Kyle W. and think he has done a great job, but if he has two more years like last year, he will be gone! Who knows, maybe even this year. Point is, Utes better start winning some games if they want to become the alpha dog program in the state of Utah. If BYU finishes with a better record this year Ute trolls can't blame BYU's easy schedule like they could the last couple of years. Ute fans think because of the conference they are part of makes them a better team. Start winning some games against the Pac 10 elite before you come to a BYU article and beat your chests!

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 20, 2013 11:02 p.m.

    BYU's toughest schedule yet (2013) ranked 49th most difficult by Phil Steele!

    The article say's working on the 2015 schedule (4 games not yet scheduled)_- whereas it looks like there are only 10 games scheduled for 2014! Regardless of what happens in 2013 BYU's 2014 schedule will probably be somewhere back in the 90's as to difficulty. Should assure 10 wins again and enhances self importance. .

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    June 20, 2013 10:55 p.m.

    @ ekute

    "Playing byu does nothing for Utah on the national scale."

    I disagree with you on that. Utah playing BYU is a guaranteed ESPN game. Do you not think that playing on ESPN is promoting your team on a national scale? Most of Utah's PAC 12 games will be on PAC 12 network or some other regional network. These networks are nowhere near as good as ESPN, even you'd have to concede to that. Do you think playing Fresno State will promote your team on a national scale? I think not.

  • Virginians for BYU Lebanon, MO
    June 20, 2013 10:39 p.m.

    @ EKUte

    As you say... "playing BYU does nothing for Utah on a national Scale".... Hate to break it to you but Utah has already dropped to nothing on a national scale..... Last 2 years they have started off the season with Montana State, Northern Colorado Real powerhouses.... Those teams really put Utah in the national spotlight....Stepped it up to Utah State this year... SUU must have already been booked. Once they get into the conference it will be the same story.... Lose most of the games. If Chris Hill believed that BYU was a likely win, he would keep playing the game. If you want to impress someone act like Alabama and play VA Tech for your first game. TCU is playing LSU. Desperation at Utah says play for an easy wins which means don't play BYU. Too much risk.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 20, 2013 10:31 p.m.

    ekute

    Beating BYU is obviously the single most important goal of every BYU-obsessed Utah fan, as proven over and over and over again on these blogs. NOTHING is more important to U than beating BYU, and NOTHING causes greater angst on the hill than the mere thought of losing to BYU.

    If BYU were a "guaranteed win", as you claim, why did your AD openly admit that playing Michigan and BYU in the same year was too much for the Utes to handle, so he dropped BYU to schedule Fresno State, a team that only has two lifetime AP Top 25 finishes, #24 in 1992 and #22 in 2004?

    The constant spin coming from the hill would make a whirling dervish jealous.

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2013 10:29 p.m.

    ESPN recognizes an international brand and a great HD truck.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 20, 2013 10:28 p.m.

    @CO Ute:
    "Did you bother to read the next sentence before distorting the article for your post? The rest of the comment is:
    They won't play us if they've already scheduled a really, really good team outside of their really, really good conference. They'll catch us on another year, and that's why we're doing games into the 2020s".

    What you're failing to address here, CO Ute, is that big time programs still schedule their rivals. Florida still plays Florida St, Georgia still plays Ga Tech, Michigan still plays ND, etc etc. Yet for still playing Georgia (who's a heck of a lot better than Michigan) GT will still play BYU. Other PAC12 teams schedule BYU but for some reason Utah can't? See the difference?

    "Taking quotes out of context is typical of you and several other posters that love to bash the U".

    Except that I have given Utah credit on several occasions for deserving the PAC12, great players, and wishing them future success in the PAC because it will help the state. I like to rib ute fans the same way they rib us. Do you have a problem with that?

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 20, 2013 10:27 p.m.

    June 4th I predicted BYU's 2013 schedule would be ranked by Phil Steele as "rated somewhere near the 45th most difficult (2 years ago it was in the mid-nineties) and I believe Utah's will be some 10 to 15 places higher" I was close on BYU's. Actual ranking was 49th; however, Utah's was rank significantly more than 10 to 15 places higher. Actual ranking 12th!!
    When I specifically asked a couple of Cougar fans to make an early prediction (I wanted to test my ability to be somewhat objective and my prediction ability against theirs!.) Duckhunter's response "...only Utes care to 1) explain the past two years and 2) “preemptive third year” “Other than that you can own me on that one because I really couldn't care less.” I understood his 1 & 2 comments (that doesn't mean they are not valid! But when he said he doesn't care I thought maybe he (and other cougar fans) should care. When BYU replaces 2013 opponents Utah, Ga Tech, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, and Idaho State with UNLV, U. Conn, and So. Miss and 2 yet to be named - Someone should let BYU know they care.

  • ArgoFY Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 20, 2013 10:20 p.m.

    It will be interesting to see how holmoe handles scheduling when ESPN stops airing byu football games late at night, and drops them all together. It's no secret that only the power conferences (and ND) will be benefitting from the College Football Playoff system that will begin next season.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 20, 2013 10:17 p.m.

    Howard S.

    "56% vs. 46% is all you need to know about the relative strength of Whit and Bronco against the BCS."

    You think you're clever, but all you're doing is proving the point that Kyle's record against "BCS" teams is really nothing more than a flimsy house of cards built on weak teams with losing records.

    Kyle's utter failure to win a single game against PAC a team with a winning record, while losing TWO games to conference foes with LOSING records, proves the point.

    Thanks for playing!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 20, 2013 10:11 p.m.

    @spokaloo

    There's no denying that byu has a national following because of their religious affiliation.
    Not every LDS is a byu fan but every byu fan is LDS. btw..that has a lot to do with why nobody wants you, and btw..I'm LDS myself.

    ND scheduled byu 4 for 2 because it gives them a cupcake with a national following.

    Go Utes.

  • spokaloo Adin, CA
    June 20, 2013 9:50 p.m.

    @Howard S

    Yes, ND is a 4 for 2 schedule. BYU has to do that because they are not ND. However, Utah has only been to South Bend. ND would not agree to play at Utah and never will. Utah is too small of a fan base, stadium, and lack of tradition. Like it or not, to even get ND to visit once is a compliment for BYU. Funny how a non-bcs school like BYU can get ND to visit, but a BCS school like Utah can't (although after next year, BYU and Utah are back on the same level playing field...no more BCS) Once ND starts scheduling Washington State, Iowa State and the likes for home and homes, Utah has hope.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 20, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    @Virginians for BYU

    "Playing BYU poses just too much risk."
    The last 11 years seem to prove different.

    Playing byu does nothing for Utah on the national scale.

    Playing any other team from a major conference brings national attention.

    Playing a lesser team brings a guaranteed win.

    That's why Dr.Hill should demand 2 for 1 from tom. lol.

    Go Utes.

  • Virginians for BYU Lebanon, MO
    June 20, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    @ CO Ute... You say that Utah is doing what the really good teams are doing... except that Utah isnt'and hasnt' been a good team in the Pac-12. The ESPN article on the PAC 12 upcoming season talks about Utah for 1/2 a sentence. And it isnt' a positive 1/2 a sentence. The elephant in the room is that Utah has recognized that unless they get more wins out of conference they will finish with a losing record. For them to improve their win column they must dumb down the out of conference schedule and play only an occasional good team but mostly weaker teams than they have played in the past. Playing BYU poses just too much risk.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 20, 2013 8:57 p.m.

    @SportsFan

    How many games has bronco lost to Kyle in the last 3 years?

    How many games has bronco lost to Kyle since the Utes joined the Pac12?

    How successful has bronco been vs Kyle?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 20, 2013 8:36 p.m.

    @SportsFan
    Orem, UT

    56% vs. 46% is all you need to know about the relative strength of Whit and Bronco against the BCS.

    If you've got another point to make... make it... and cite your own evidence.

  • BYU sports on TV in Missouri Lebanon, MO
    June 20, 2013 8:30 p.m.

    The key to the whole deal is that BYU needs to be good enough that every game is a winner for everyone involved. When the other team wins, They get credit for a good win. When BYU wins it shouldn't be embarassing. Competitive games are a must for everyone to win. Go cougars!

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 20, 2013 8:25 p.m.

    howard s.

    "Whit has a 56% record against BCS teams... Bronco has a 46% record against BCS teams."

    Weak attempt, but the crickets are still chirping.

    Now let's see if you're honest enough to answer what was really asked:

    How successful has Kyle been against BCS teams with WINNING records, especially since the Utes joined the PAC?

    How many games has Kyle LOST to BCS teams with LOSING records?

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    June 20, 2013 8:11 p.m.

    @cougsanddawgs - regarding the comment that really good teams will schedule BYU and you jab at Utah

    Did you bother to read the next sentence before distorting the article for your post? The rest of the comment is:
    “They won't play us if they've already scheduled a really, really good team outside of their really, really good conference. They'll catch us on another year, and that's why we're doing games into the 2020s.

    Seem to me that Utah scheduled Michigan which is clearly a really, really good team outside of their really, really good conference. Seems to me that Utah will catch the Y on another year. In fact, Utah has done exactly what Holmoe references for really good teams.

    Taking quotes out of context is typical of you and several other posters that love to bash the U. Why not take the high road and comment about the fact that ESPN has helped BYU improve their schedule and hopefully they can drop the Idaho State/Idaho/New Mexico St type games in the future.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:52 p.m.

    @DeepBlue
    Anaheim, CA

    Whit has a 56% record against BCS teams... Bronco has a 46% record against BCS teams.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:47 p.m.

    DeepBlue

    "How successful has Kyle been against BCS teams with winning records, especially since the Utes joined the PAC? How many games has Kyle lost to BCS teams with losing records?"

    Good points!

    The Utes love to hide behind labels and pretend that beating losing teams with bcs logos on their jerseys is somehow significant. Two years in the PAC and still desperately searching for their first win against a PAC 10.2 team with a winning record is beginning to take it toll on our friends on the hill.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:46 p.m.

    Y>U
    Anaheim, CA

    Isn't ND a 4 for 2 schedule?

    And when are the 2 at Provo scheduled?

    And isn't Wisconsin 2 games at Wisc and 1 game at Provo?

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:45 p.m.

    Somehow I'm of the opinion that every team and/or conference needs support from ESPN (except Notre Dame and their tie-in with ABC) so what's the point of this article?

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    June 20, 2013 7:38 p.m.

    howie

    How successful has Kyle been against BCS teams with winning records, especially since the Utes joined the PAC? How many games has Kyle lost to BCS teams with losing records?

    * crickets *

  • Y>U Anaheim, CA
    June 20, 2013 7:35 p.m.

    SLC BYU Hater

    "Dave Brown can do all he can and probably get BYU some good home and home opponents for September and October and get BYU all over the country. BUT November with "FCS/Sun-Belt Cupcakes" will be the undoing of this experiment"

    You need to update your BYU hating smack.

    BYU plays Wisconsin(8-6), Notre Dame(12-1), Nevada(7-6), and Idaho State(1-10) in November 2013 - three teams with winning records including a BCS championship game participant and the B1G's Rose Bowl representative, combined record 28-23

    while

    Utah plays Washington State(3-9), Washington(7-6), Arizona(8-5), and Colorado(1-11) - two teams with winning records, neither with a significant bowl game appearance, combined record 19-31

    It's obvious which team is really playing the "cupcake" schedule in November!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:33 p.m.

    @flatlander
    Omaha, NE

    Of Bronco's not ready to play Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn St....

    He loses 46% of the time when he plays BCS teams.

  • flatlander Omaha, NE
    June 20, 2013 7:24 p.m.

    I had a different take, great teams are not afraid to play anyone and they believe they can beat BYU. Bronco wants a balanced schedule so right now he is not ready to play anyone so he does not believe he can beat everyone.. He is not ready to play a schedule that includes Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State, penn State, Wisconsin etc week after week.

  • SLC BYU Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:15 p.m.

    Dave Brown can do all he can and probably get BYU some good home and home opponents for September and October and get BYU all over the country. BUT November with "FCS/Sun-Belt Cupcakes" will be the undoing of this experiment just as a 10 school Big 12 will prove their undoing when they get passed over by an ACC team or 2nd SEC team in the 4 team pool. Ultimately BYU will need to join a "real" league if they're to gain in national credibility or respect, even if such a league like the Big 12 "isn't fair to Utah State" with Utah already in the Pac-12. In the other sports such as basketball the WCC will never propel the Cougar brand as the MWC did, and the perception will always be that BYU only gets winning records with a lite November schedule as I outlined above.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:08 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    A jab at Utah?

    I've never heard CH be anything other than gracious in his public comments about scheduling BYU...

    TH on the other hand can't seem to resist petty jabs.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:05 p.m.

    "The really good teams don't have trouble scheduling. They're like, 'We'll play BYU.' The great teams don't back away from people,”
    **********

    So... are we to understand that if you decline to play BYU, you're not a great team?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 20, 2013 7:01 p.m.

    "In most cases they say, 'No, I'm not interested in playing,' which is a compliment to our program."
    ***************

    Curious...

    How is it a complement to BYU if a coach declines to play them?

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2013 6:59 p.m.

    IRS,
    Agreed!! I am expecting an 8 win season.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 20, 2013 6:58 p.m.

    My favorite quote:"The great teams don't back away from anybody"--Tom Holmoe
    Hopefully Chris Hill heard that and saw it for the jab at Utah it unintentionally was...or was it?

  • IRS Agent PROVO, UT
    June 20, 2013 6:31 p.m.

    A "win-win" is right. Now BYU needs to make it a win-win-win, by getting some wins on the field. That is what will really open up the opportunities.

  • Ute buster Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2013 6:27 p.m.

    Utah should be so lucky to have such a sweet relationship. BYU is the class of the state.

  • But seriously folks! Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2013 6:26 p.m.

    ESPN is a great partnership. I am glad to see that they recognize a quality and a class-act program that they want to be connected to. The exposure is the best in the state, much better than the PAC 11+U network.
    GO COUGS

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    June 20, 2013 6:20 p.m.

    I love my ESPN Membership. ESPN is the king of sports and they love BYU.