I think that women should be able to wear whatever they are comfortable in. If
that means BIkinis then so be it. I dont here people complaining about too much
The discussion is missing an important fact: women have always used sexuality as
a tool to manipulate men. This is a power that women recognize, even
unconsciously, at a very young age, as male sexual attraction to women is one of
the most obvious and potent features of our species, and even young girls
can't help but observe and process this at some level. While sexual
manipulation is not in any way dignified, it is clear that ideas about dignity
are overcome by a woman's need for power. Given the enormous peer pressures
and insecurities women face in this culture, apparently any kind of power is a
good thing, even if ultimately demeaning to women themselves. Thus, the
unstoppable gravitation toward skimpier clothes and all kinds of shocking trends
to over-sexualize young women's bodies that women seem to gleefully
embrace. Any effort to place feminine dignity above raw sexual power
must first recognize this power as base manipulation, and reject the popular
idea that it is somehow freedom and feminine liberation. This is no easy task in
a culture that glorifies overt sexuality and rejects personal responsibility or
restraint, and that demeans the institution of family.
To Chris B:Even in Utah hardly anyone considers a sleeveless shirt
immodest. They are even worn in church by many teenagers. It's the low-cut,
cleavage showing shirts that many conservative people (in or out of Utah)
consider immodest. You need to get out more and start better
understanding those you live around. A bit more etiquette concerning sports
comments wouldn't hurt either.
It was the bikini that put Rose Marie Reid out of business. She refused to make
per ShmittyWitty...Thanks. Its all about context & location.
to bigv56 6/19 Thank you & agreed.to countrymom 6/19 Nothing
like to look wise by stating the obvious is there? "Puritanism
is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." - H.L. Mencken
Whats the difference between a woman showing off her body in a bikini and doing
the ame in bra and panties? Other than the material, there really isn't a
noun, plural mod·es·ties.1. the quality of being modest; freedom
from vanity, boastfulness, etc.2. regard for decency of behavior, speech,
dress, etc.3.simplicity; moderation.Thank you to IKI,ILI,ILI
for reminding us that modesty is more than what we wear. Attitude and how we
present ourselves in ALL ways are parts of modesty. Using the definition from
an online dictionary, the bikini fails all three definitions of modesty. BUT so
does someone who is more covered up but boastful and vain about that fact. And,
by this definition someone who brags is immodest, and someone who swears is
immodest, and someone building or living in a McMansion is immodest. Flamboyant
clothing or behavior? Immodest! A person with a modest and humble heart will
present themselves in clothing, speech, and behavior with suitable regard for
both themselves and others. And therein lies the key, a truly modest person is
unselfish and considers much more than their own wants and desires. It is a
virtue much misunderstood and maligned, but also much in need by the world to be
As some have mentioned its funny to note that the woman giving the speech would
be seen as immodest by a significant number of LDS due to her sleeveless
attire— not to mention the fact that conservative Muslim would find
her dressed immodestly without a hijab or burka. By the standards of women in
the early 1900s the skirts worn by some the most 'modest' of American
women today would be scandalous. That brings up the questions:
Should the 'modesty' of a more conservative group have any say over
what one wears? My more conservative LDS friends would say 'yes' when
talking about bikinis but 'no' when we're talking about burkas.
And so it is with asserting morality— everyone draws their own lines
in the sand and thinks everyone else should adopt them— all while
rejecting the idea that they are in anyway subject to another's morality.
Good article. I agree bikinis are not very modest and leave little to the
imagination. Science proves this according to the article, bikinis make men see
women as objects. I would not feel comfortable wearing a speed-o for the same
reason, it is too revealing. I'm glad to see someone pointing out that
there are alternatives to bikinis.
@JP71"I hear people now saying that's the man’s problem,
but it’s actually biology's problem."Actually the
study noted hasn't been published in a journal, hasn't undergone peer
review, and has sample size and statistical issues. Regardless, considering
cultures in South America where less clothing is more normal and in Muslim
nations where more clothing is more normal it would seem that it's not a
matter of how much clothing but rather how much clothing relative to the
The woman who runs this modest swimsuit company is one brave woman.Kudos to her.(and this is coming from someone who is often made
breathless admiring the form of the female body)
I would just like to point out that the research she cites is not the end all be
all of the subject. It was ONE study, done in ONE location (and a location
where the female form is hyper-sexualized at that), and it is a PSYCHOLOGICAL
study, not a BIOLOGICAL one, so it says NOTHING of "biological facts."
As with all academic research, the study suggest a few changes for other
researchers to perform for a greater understanding: 1) Use actual women in
bikinis rather than images. 2) Study how men's brains react to seeing
their significant others and family members in bikinis. I would also
add that the female brain should be studied with regards to seeing the male form
half naked. I am nearly certain that the results would be the same; females
would objectify men, just the same. Furthermore, the study should
extend to other locations where the female form is NOT oversexualized. To say
nothing of how Europeans view nudity, the study could be taken to Africa, where
women routinely wear minimal clothing and are not sexualized for it. I am
interested in seeing if the psychological observation in America is the same
I thought this presentation was fantastic. The young lady was intelligent and
articulate in her assessment of the effect of clothing, namely swimsuits, on a
girl/woman's body to the onlooker and herself. As a young woman who had not
yet joined the church, I wore a bikini not because I was comfortable in it; but
because I wanted peer approval. That was in the 70s. On joining the church I
sought out more modest swimsuits but they were hard to find. This young
lady's collection is very nice. Wear what flatters your body and you can
run, swim, play beach sports, etc., without fear of getting a wedgie or having
parts of your body unflatteringly hang out. A full bathing suit provides this;
a bikini does not. Case in point with Olympic Beach Volleyball. No-one I know
(males especially) would be able to tell you much about the game; they watch it
to see the scantily clad girls bounce around without much left to the
imagination. This speaker is trying to tell you that if you want to be taken
seriously, dress with dignity and grace on or off the beach.
I worked at a pool for a number of years. It was disgusting to see the women who
thought that a bikini was for for them. If you're fat and flabby, a two
piece ain't for you. No one is attracted by a full on fleshy view. Call it
whatever you want, modesty, decency, basic intelligence, seeing someone in a
swimming suit meant for a person half their size is disturbing,. The fact
remains, that regardless of whether a bikini is modest or not, bikinis on 99% of
intelligent America look bad.
The funny thing about these discussions are the people who are promoting a
change to modestry are the 'conservatives' and the ones promoting the
status quo of women being objectified as a sex objects so men can get free
titillation are the ones who are thinking of themselves as 'liberal'
and are the same posters who frequently complain of the attitudes and views of
conservatives.The hard-wiring of the brain is a good argument. Men
are mentally wired to follow an image. If my wife ask me to go get a can of
yeast from the pantry, and if I am thinking of a blue yeast packet, I will not
see the red yeast can for the life of me. My wife will come into the room and
see the can and wonder how I can be so blind. But that's OK, I like her
Chris, this a new side of you that I didn't know existed...Not only are
your sports picks fuzzy at best, you have put as much thought into picking swim
wear. Hang in there though. You are entertaining.
I remember being in middle school and modesty would be talked about now and
then. The majority of teenage males knew and openly admitted about how dress and
appearance affect sexual attraction. The number of adults who would be as honest
is dramatically lower.True principles don't change with time,
only people do.Well.ok,Modesty: "freedom from
conceit or vanity" (Merriam-Webster)Some people choose to live
modest, humble, and meek lives. Others believe they are worth more than others,
indulge their ego, and live in selfishness. Some women flaunt their bodies as
objects to attract, some women, in denial, refuse responsibility by denying any
possible harm (despite brain scans or men who will admit their own sexual
interests), and few choose care and wisdom instead. They can choose one or the
other, but in each case the relationship is in how someone views their self and
how they choose to have that affect other people.Note that woman and
men are stimulated very different visually. The porn industry's entire
income relies on that fact, while anti-religious or anti-moral critics often
deny it, simply satisfy their conceit and moral decay.
Well,ok. Men and women react differently to the human form.Men and women
have totally different ways of thinking feeling and visualizing life.Women
are more emotional and men are more physical.Men are more sexually
stimulated by what they can see.Women are sexually stimulated by words and
feelings.A wife wants to hear that her man loves her.Men wants to
see her without clothing. No matter what kinds of experiments and weird
raising people try to do this is the way we ware wired.
Can someone please tell me why it's immodest for a women to wear a swimsuit
exposing their belly, but not for a man?
Let me relate the modesty-in-swimwear issue to the modesty-in-prom-dancing
issue. Many high schools today have banned the overtly sexual dance moves that
none of us want our 17-year-olds participating in. Turns out even other
17-years-olds are uncomfortable watching such a thing. In my opinion, certain
things are best left to the privacy of the bedroom – that includes the
exposure of so much of a woman’s body via the bikini.
The protectors of public morality are a funny lot. In the summer of '61 my
family drove from SoCal to Oklahoma to visit family. At a public pool in Okemah,
my Mother was chastised for allowing my then 3 year old sister to come to the
pool in a Bikini. Evidently, this townswoman thought my three year old sister
could single handedly corrupt all the youth in the pool by her mere bikinied
presence in the pool. In this Baptist-centric community prehaps this
woman's greater fear was that unsupervised dancing would break out through
part of Oklahoma. A bikini,IMHO, was a re-herring threat to local social order.
In the back of this woman's mind, prehaps the Grandchildren of slaves would
want to be able to vote next. It must have been hard to live in the South as the
last gasps of Jim Crow was being breathed. Yes, the times they are/were
@Chris BYou’re missing her point. It’s not here opinion
that bikinis cause men to think of women as objects it’s a scientific
fact. I hear people now saying that's the man’s problem, but
it’s actually biology's problem. It's the way the brain is hard
wired. This woman is simple reporting facts and telling women that if you want
to be taken seriously don't dress in a bikini.
98%of women shouldn't go near a bikini because all it does is reveal their
flaws,cellulite and other flab. I just wonder what they are thinking. The
pregnant women in bikini look is way north of hideous. Not only can you be
modest by wearing a less revealing swimsuit, you can also quit scaring the
Chris, you missed the research. The research provides objective results. You
are complaining that modesty is a subjective matter but you failed to mention
the objective results of the Princeton study proving that the more scantily clad
a women is the less brain activity registers in the medial pre-frontal cortex of
men. You can't dispute that. Chris, I have 4 young daughters.
I can tell you likely have no daughters considering your opposition to modesty.
"bikinis were the talk of Kanab city when the city council banned the
two-piece attire from community swimming pools "And here I
thought that all the comments would be about government intrusion in our
lives.I guess "modesty" trumps government overreach.
Chris, did you listen to the video, specifically the research she quoted?
Instead of trying to define modesty for you, this woman is trying to teach you,
and others, that clothes do have an impact, whether you and 99% of the rational
adults want to admit it or not.
I feel a simple modesty issue in women's dress today is the exposure of
cleavage. Swimwear is one thing, but in the workplace, it can be very
distracting. I'm afraid some women use it as the new power tie.
I went to the website expecting to see some drab swimming suits these are
actually quite beautiful. looking at the swimsuits I think the same areas of
any man's brain will light up as with the two piece swimsuit though. If
getting men not to focus on women's beauty and womanly charms is her goal
she has failed. To succeed in this 100 percent or close she pretty much would
have to do what the Moslems do.
Thanks goodness someone has finally gotten a clue!
I'll point out the lady giving the lecture is wearing a sleeveless
dress.In other words, a dress that most in Utah would consider
The problem with saying a one piece is "modest" and a bikini
"immodest" is who made you the judge of modest/immodest?In
many places in the world a "modest" one piece would be considered a very
"immodest" thing to wear.Why don't we label
"modest" only as those clothes that nearly cover a woman head to toe?Point is, a bikini is fine.Everyone has their own definition
of "immodest" and 99% of rational adults know that a bikini is simply a
swimming suit and there is nothing wrong with a nice looking woman wearing a