@mark - so now you're pretending to know the traditional protocol for this
school's celebration of Mothers and Fathers Days? Apparently many of the
parents were fooled into thinking their school's tradition had been
changed, but clearly you know better. You forgot one group to consider besides
household, family, and church. It's community, and people like you think
it's your job to tell communities how they must celebrate something like
Mothers and Fathers Day, regardless of the traditions and wishes of the
majority.About losing ground, I did not say ground was necessarily
lost on this specific issue. My argument is that people like you always expect
people of tradition to give in whenever there is a disagreement, using shame and
supposed enlightenment as your weapons of choice. If that doesn't work,
then it's on to the courts.
"Obviously you're fine with diluting the meaning and significance of
Easter, and of Mother's and Father's Day, but many are not."I don't care I the meaning has been "diluted" one way or
the other. It is up to you what you feel the meaning is. For your household. For
your family. For your church. If the meaning of Easter had not been diluted,
though, I would not think it should be celebrated in public schools. Do you know
anything about the history of Mother's and Father's Day? "Why can't all children be grateful for all good fathers on
Father's Day, and all good mothers on Mother's Day? "Well, I imagine they could be, but it doesn't change my argument one bit.
Do you really think children think things through like that? Ah
thanks for the recap on the thread. (Don't know what that was about, but
anyway.) You didn't answer what ground you feel has been given
up by yourself or "traditionalists". Oh, also,
traditionally, these holidays were never in school like they are now. Heck,
traditionally, people didnt celebrate these holidays like they do now.
@mark - as a recap since you apparently couldn't follow the comment string,
I was responding to Kalindra, who felt that because she wanted it one way, the
school should change a cherished tradition that encourages the children to honor
each parent individually. She, and you, as is typical of liberals, think you
should be in charge of determining what offense is legitimate, and shame
everyone else into giving up the ground.You're right - all
children regardless of color can be proud of the accomplishments of great black
leaders like MLK, and of the founding of our country. Why can't all
children be grateful for all good fathers on Father's Day, and all good
mothers on Mother's Day? Obviously you're fine with
diluting the meaning and significance of Easter, and of Mother's and
Father's Day, but many are not. You want traditionalists to give up the
ground, as always.
It's a rite of passage, of course parents are upset...kids are only young
for such a short time. If you were there to push out a kid or be there to help
support the birth, then you'd want a card too!
"Conservatives must always be the only people to give up ground."Letsdebate, what, exactly, do you feel like conservatives have given up
here? First of all, the school backed away from what they were doing. The ones
that wanted Mother's and Father's Day to continue in the school got
their way. What ground was given up here for you? How were conservatives the
only people to give up ground?But even if the school had stayed with
a more inclusive celebration honoring the family how would conservatives, or
anybody have lost anything? After all they could still celebrate to their hearts
content. At home, or at a nice restaraunt, or at a park, or church, or anywhere
they want. They could still buy all the knick knacks they want, all the cards or
flowers or candy the merchants are pushing that they want. What's stopping
them? And you know, this isn't even a political issue. Why are
you trying to make it one? Really, it is just about recognizing that
some children might be hurt by these holidays. Is it really that unreasonable to
try to avoid that? Really?
You do not need to be black to honor MLK. Easter has been transformed from a
Christian celebration, to more of a celebration of spring, everybody can join in
on easter egg hunts and bunny’s. Honoring those no longer with us can be
done by all, besides memorial day is hardly noticed by schools. Everybody can
celebrate the founding of a country, fireworks do not exclude anybody. These holidays are hardly comparable to the exclusion that exists for some in
mothers and fathers day. It is hardly unreasonable to have a more inclusive
family’s day. It is amazing that some people do not care to
protect a little child’s feelings. They will sacrifice those feelings on
the alter of political points about political correctness, or some nonexistent
right to celebrate all holidays in school. Very sad.Mother’s
day or father’s day can be very painful to some children that do not have
a parent at home (because of abandonment or death or for whatever reason) yet
have to celebrate it at school. But hey, as long as the political
feelings of some callous adults are protected.
Thanks for the sanctimonious and humorous distinction between Conservatives and
Liberals, Kalindra. I think what you meant is that Liberals pretend to be
offended at the manufactured offenses of a very few malcontents with large chips
on their shoulders, then attempt to coerce everyone to smile and live by the
wishes of a very small but vocal minority. You and other Liberals are all in
charge of what constitutes a legitimate offense, and Conservatives must always
be the only people to give up ground.
@Kalindra - here's a single, rational argument - because it's a
harmless (actually, beneficial and respectful) tradition they want to keep. Why
do they owe you more of a rationale than that? What single, rational argument
do you have to present that it should be changed? Let me guess - because it
makes sense to you, and that's the way you want it. Well,
Kalindra and a very few gays want it changed - stop the world! I highly doubt
more than a small minority among the gays that are offended by the Mothers and
Fathers Day celebrations, but we need to change cherished traditions to satisfy
a small minority of a small minority. Some people just need to be
firmly told sometimes to grow up and find find a real cause.
"If they don't have a father in the house, why can't they
celebrate the fact that a man gave up some DNA to create them?"Are you actually serious? So if some guy gets a girl pregnant and skips out
on his responsibilities, the school should take time out of the curriculum to
tell the kid to celebrate the fact that he "gave up some DNA"? I grew up with several kids from single-parent homes. I know it was
hard for them to color a card for a father that wasn't in the picture (in
school, you don't have the option to simply not do an assignment) and hear
other kids talk about their dads. This school didn't tell anybody not to
celebrate Mother's and Father's Day, they just decided they
wouldn't take out class time to do it. I don't see how having a
"Family Day" where they can talk about mothers, fathers, and
grandparents and the sacrifices they make to raise the child is a bad thing.
@ Tom in CA: The PC movement started when Conservatives wanted to make sure
their children were not exposed to anti-war propaganda during Vietnam or curse
words they find offensive.The interesting thing about the
Conservative PC movement versus the Liberal PC movement - Conservatives get
offended at things that challenge their world perception and hurt their feeling
- things they find personally offensive, Liberals get offended at things that
exclude or injure others.Every argument on here against
"International Family Day" and in favor of Mother's Day and
Father's Day is based on this is the way things have always been, or a
non-existent right to have mothers and fathers honored on separate days and have
that honoring supported by the school. There is not a single
rational argument presented for why those two days cannot be joined and all
families celebrated together.
Why can't single mothers and lesbian couples with children celebrate
Father's day?If they have children wasn't a father of some
sort involved? Why can't they celebrate diversity? If a child has 2
mothers, then that means they can make 2 cards for their 2 mommies. If they
don't have a father in the house, why can't they celebrate the fact
that a man gave up some DNA to create them?
And political correctness just keeps boxing We The People into an ever
tightening corner. When will We The People stand up and say, "enough is
enough"?? Yes, THEY are cramming their "religion" down
all of our throats.
So according to mark we shouldn't celebrate Martin Luther King day because
not everyone is Black. We shouldn't celebrate Valentines day because some
kids might not have a valentine. We shouldn't celebrate Easter because
some kids don't beleive in Christ. We shouldn't celebrate Memorial
day because it might bring up sad memories for kids. We shouldn't
celebrate 4th of July because not everyone at school is America. And on and on
and on.If we do nothing because by doing something we might upset someone
we will never accomplish any bad, but we will also never accomplish anything
I can see where some kids that don't have a mother or father at home, for
whatever reason, might be hurt while watching other kids making cards for their
mother or fathers. I can see it being reasonable to celebrate a more general
family. But, no, instead of worrying about the feelings of little
kids, lets make sure that some parent gets their validation of their
child's love through receiving a card made at school, and that some other
people don't have any purely imagined rights to celebrate mothers or
Father's Day at a school taken away. Oh and that someone else isn't
forced, forced! I tell you! to live a lifestyle they don't want to. What a joke.
In the real world my boss doesn't participate in my celebration of
Mother's Day or Father's Day. Neither of those days have
any basis in religious teachings beyond "honor thy father and thy
mother" - which should be done every day, not just once a year. And I have never seen anything that says you have a right to have the school
tell your children to give you a gift nor have I ever seen anything that says
children have a right to make cards for their parents during school hours. Face it - the majority of posters are behaving the way they are accusing
the same-sex parents of acting - their feel bads are hurt and they are offended
that someone would dare challenge the status quo. No rights are
being impacted - you are just offended.
Meadow Lark Mark,Why? Because inherent to moral relativism is the
desire to force your beliefs on others. People who think morality cannot be
fixed believe that all acts should be tolerated, except the ones they don't
like.It's hypocrisy at its core.
Hmmmm. Last time I checked, every single person comes from a mother and a
I think this is another way that I have to change my core beliefs to bend to the
rights of a minority. Why do I always have to be the one to change. Honestly
the sperm has to come from a man, and this is true whether there is a marriage
or not. Two men cannot procreate without an egg, and two women cannot procreate
without a sperm. Why is this? Why is this true for our species? There should
be a mother and a father. This is right. From the start of time there has been
a mother and a father. Why are we trying to destroy them now? I get tired of
the voices of the minority usually trying to overrule the voices of the
majority. It's not right that I should have to totally bend my views until
I have no idea what I believe. I have no problem with other views living what
they believe, just stop trying to make me live your views!!!!!
so what is going to happen to this child when they enter the real world and
people actually celebrate mother's and father's day?
Another reason why I oppose gay marriage!
@Kalindra"What "right" is being overridden? How does having a
"Family Day" celebration instead of separate Mother's and
Father's Days not honor the family?"The right of a child to
celebrate his/her father or mother should not be infringed upon because it
causes feelings for a child of a same sex marriage. The same sex couple has to
recognize that their choice is going to cause these feelings because their child
is not in what would be deemed a normal family environment when compared to the
family environments of other children. Don't misunderstand me. I'm
not saying gays or lesbians shouldn't be allowed to marry...I believe the
constitution protects their freedom to choose who they will be with. What many
people misunderstand is that regardless of freedom of choice (rights) there are
consequences to the choices we make. I also never said a "Family Day"
doesn't honor the family, but many children enjoy the different gifts and
celebrations of a Mother and a Father. Their right to celebrate both with the
inherent difference between Father and Mother shouldn't be infringed
because a same sex couple had hurt feelings or complained.
@KalindraWell duh...the right to have a mother's day and a
father's day celebration.
I am baffled as to why the child of the same-sex parents felt unable to
celebrate either Mother's Day or Father's Day - the child may not be
able to celebrate both holidays, but they would be able to celebrate one of them
two-fold.I am also baffled by the idea that the single mother cannot
(willnot?) discuss Mother's Day with her child but instead makes the school
responsible for her feeling appreciated by her child.The nice thing
about a "Family Day" is that it would recognize all the many different
families that exist in our modern world - single parent, step-parent, same-sex
parents, a mom and a dad. With the way the world is changing, it might not be
such a bad idea - unless you are a greeting card company.@
Cougsndawgs: What "right" is being overridden? How does having a
"Family Day" celebration instead of separate Mother's and
Father's Days not honor the family?
Another case of a minority group's feelings overriding the majority's
rights. Good for the parents of this community for standing up and letting their
voice be heard instead of being pushed to abolish something that celebrates the
family. I have no problem with same sex marriages, and gays and lesbians wanting
that right...but if you want that right than there are consequences and you have
to accept that. One consequence is that you may feel left out of parties or
social events involving the majority (Jehovah Witnesses accept this as a
consequence for not celebrating christmas, but they dont tell everyone else at
school that they cant celebrate it). Most children aren't members of a gay
family, so it's not the norm for most of them. Does that mean they have no
right to celebrate their fathers and mothers because one gay couple complains? I
fear for a society that allows the hurt feelings (not rights) of the minority to
overrule the rights of the majority (there's a big difference between my
rights, and what offends or hurts my feelings...a difference that seems clouded
in this age of moral relativism).
We celebrate way too many of these 'greeting card' holidays. Stick to
Because the school is an extension of the family.
I'm curious why they would be doing that at school anyway? Sounds like one
less irrelevant (to school) celebration a teacher has to worry about.