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Comments about ‘BYU football: Cougars must secure their own bowl game alliances in the world of independence’

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Published: Sunday, June 16 2013 6:06 p.m. MDT

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Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Wiscougarfan:

That quote you posted today at 10:22am was a desperate attempt to FINALLY prove me wrong. But sadly for you, it did NOT. The "desperate" part was your deliberately taking my words out of context. That was written in response to Cougsndawgs' insistence that "Utah played a good schedule last year but it wasn't much better than BYUs." Phil Steele's publication was due out on the magazine stands yesterday morning, but the rack I purchase my reading material didn't stock until after lunch today. Here's what it said...

2012 Utah SOS: #41
2012 Indy-WAC SOS: #68

Cougsndawgs insisted the distance between our 2 programs' SOS was 7.53. Phil Steele puts it somewhere around 27. HUGE difference there. I said, "Phil Steele will release his preseason magazine...he'll talk about the prior season, and give a final grade on SOS. There, you will find Utah's SOS much more difficult than yours...For both 2013 (preseason estimate) and 2012."

And I was right. Case closed.

P.S.: Phil Steele ranked the following preseason SOS for 2013...Utah = #12; Indy-WAC = #49.

So I was right AGAIN!

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Duckhunter:

"Although she/he will show up and try to somehow claim "victory" anyway. It isn't just that she/he has to convince all of us that she/he was "victorious", she/he obviously has to try to convince herself/himself as well. Funny stuff, as always."

Victory for me indeed. That excerpt from Wiscougarfan was a deliberately disingenous quoting of me taken out of context. Nobody said anything about "Power Ratings". Cougsndawgs and I were talking about SOS. And Phil Steele DID INDEED put a LOT more distance between our 2 programs than Cougsndawgs thought they would. Utah's 2012 SOS was ranked 27 spots ahaead of our little brother's, and our preseason 2013 SOS (at #12) is ranked ahead 37 spots!

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: Naval Vet

Fine, you win. Utah's SOS was higher than BYU's in both 2012 and 2013. I've never contested this fact because I don't think it's a big deal, BYU still has a great schedule lined up for this coming season.

You, of course, ignored the message I posted which reiterated that according to Phil Steele, who you deem as "entirely unbiased" and whose "publications have been consistently noted as the most accurate of all college football publications" that BYU finished last season ranked higher than Utah and begins 2013 again ranked higher than Utah. Now, I'll reiterate that it doesn't matter how unbiased or accurate one is, preseason hype is just that, hype. But you can't ignore his claim that BYU finished last season as a stronger team than the U (despite a lower SOS).

MacNasty
Rexburg, ID

Naval Vet,

Last 2012 and 2011 final BCS rankings INCLUDE SOS. It seems that you choose to ignore this fact.

Fact that your Utes ranked #60 and BYU ranked $55 is telling. Considering many factors, which SOS is one, BYU was a better team than Utah in 2012.

BTW: Utah State ranked $22. I give Utah State and recognize them as the best FBS team last year among the three even though BYU defeated them.

Utah is the little brother of BYU in terms of national recognition, national awards, legacy recognition, and national brand.

BYU's fanbase is twice that of Utah's. I don't think you can spin that or the final BCS rankings.

Have a great day.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@Macnasty

Utah State is worth more than $22.

Have a great day.

Riverton Cougar
Riverton, UT

"I did not such thing, you weren't undefeated in 2001."

Uteology,

You sure did. Here's the article you quoted:

"BCS denies Cougars; BYU headed to Liberty: A 12-0 record, top scoring offense proves not enough"

You misunderstood when I said undefeated Cougars. I mean to say that the Cougars were undefeated when the BCS denied them. Is 12-0 not undefeated?

Naval Vet,

Can you honestly tell me that if BYU didn't have a no-Sunday policy and if BYU had no special request for broadcasting rights, that the Big-12 would have not invited BYU? You must have a short term memory because the Big 12 did show interest in BYU. I know you will deny it because it debunks your claim that nobody wanted BYU, but you don't show interest in a team you don't want.

Tomahawk Red
North Salt Lake, UT

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI
RE: Spokane Ute

So your response to my earlier post is that BYU can't play in a bowl in San Antonio that Utah didn't make it to two years ago?

------------

No, his point was simple. Utah missed the Alamo Bowl by four points... whereas even a 10-win BYU wouldn't have had the opportunity play in it.

Translation= Utah has access to bowls that BYU can't get into.

Tomahawk Red
North Salt Lake, UT

Tators
Hyrum, UT
I'd like to know if anyone has seen any articles concerning Utah going to a future bowl game... any bowl game at all, even lower tier? No... I didn't think so. Neither have I.

------------

That's because we have our bowl ties taken care of for us. Utah doesn't have to do mad scrambles to snatch up bowl contracts like BYU does.

Yet another disadvantage of your precious independence.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Wiscougarfan:

"You, of course, ignored the message I posted...."

No I didn't. I called you out on it. You deliberately took my words out of context, and now you have to eat crow. Don't try to change the argument.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Riverton Cougar:

"Can you honestly tell me that if BYU didn't have a no-Sunday policy and if BYU had no special request for broadcasting rights, that the Big-12 would have not invited BYU?"

No more than you could "honestly" tell me that they WOULD have. But based on what I've seen, the more plausible scenerio was that the Indy-WACers weren't selected because they weren't wanted. TCU and WVU were simply the better options.

"You must have a short term memory because the Big 12 did show interest in BYU. I know you will deny it because it debunks your claim that nobody wanted BYU, but you don't show interest in a team you don't want."

YOU must have a short term memory, because the Big 12 did show some interest in Air Force too. AFA has an ACTUAL "national fan base", higher academics than the Indy-WACers, and have no broadcasting rights issues.

And ultimately, they weren't wanted either.

Funny you never hear the Academy's fans making up dubiously unfounded claims to explain why they weren't invited. I guess they're all just too classy.

Y's little brother
Sandy, UT

What difference does having "bowl ties" make, if you're not even good enough to qualify for a bowl?

Teams like Indiana, Vanderbilt, Iowa State, Duke, and Washington State have the exact same types of "bowl ties", but when was the last time any of those teams played in a bowl that anybody except the bowl participants cared about?

Frankly, the vast majority of fans couldn't care less who's playing in the Alamo Bowl, or the Sun Bowl, or the Las Vegas Bowl, or the Poinsettia Bowl, or the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl, or any bowl outside of the playoffs

UNLESS

it's their team.

Fans who actually attend bowl games, just want an interesting bowl venue and a competitive bowl opponent. Bowl payout is meaningless. Most teams LOSE money playing in a bowl.

Even the so-called "major" bowls will lose considerable prestige as soon as the playoffs begin, especially when the playoffs expand to 8 teams, which will only take a couple of years.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@ Tomahawk Red

Correct and Thank You!

MUSSing with U
Baltimore, MD

navel vet

LOL at your SOS spin, while intentionally ignoring the REAL rankings:

2012 BYU #26
2012 PACy-WACers #61

2011 BYU #34
2011 PACy-WACers #39

btw,

When are the Utes going to open the SOS wing of their Athletic Hall of Fame...

closet?

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

navelvet

"Funny you never hear the Academy's fans making up dubiously unfounded claims to explain why they weren't invited."

The only thing "dubiously unfounded" about the claims is the blinding hatred you have for BYU that prevents you from seeing reality. The only thing keeping BYU out of the PAC 12 is the religious bigotry of a couple of member schools. The only thing keeping BYU out of the Big 12, is BYU's no Sunday play policy and minor disagreements concerning television rights.

The "research" university "requirement" was nothing but a smoke screen to give the PAC 12 cover for not wanting to invite a private, religious school. Baylor, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State all have the same high research level classification.

One thing that's becoming very clear, however, is Utah wasn't invited to the PAC because of their "superior" athletic programs. As most fans expected, the Utes have finished near the bottom of the conference in every sport except women's gymnastics.

steeleute
Sandy, UT

Bluto:

So BYU for sure goes bowling this year and Utah doesn't. Interesting statement considering BYU went 7-5 last year with a much easier schedule than they have this year

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Naval Vet:
First of all you're misrepresenting what I said. I never said I didn't think Phil Steele would have Utah's SOS much higher than BYUs for 2012 in his publication. I was using BCS rankings, which are the most accurate we have, to show that BYUs avg opponent was very close to Utah's, and that BYU still played 5 top 25 teams while Utah only played 2. I realize most publications are going to have Utah's SOS higher than BYUs because Utah's schedule is tougher top to bottom (which is exactly what I said). In the end Steele believed BYUs team to be better than Utah's in 2012 and predicts they'll be better in 2013...SOS is just part of the equation, except with you and Howie, and AZUTE who think it's the end-all.

"The "final polls" are the "AP" and the "USA Today", and Oregon St. did NOT finished ranked in those final polls".

Oh please. You're going to discredit Bronco because the Beavers weren't ranked in the final AP/Coaches polls? Why were they not in those polls, Nav? Oh that would be because BYU pounded them in the bowl game.

Riverton Cougar
Riverton, UT

Naval Vet,

So Air Force was wanted too. Just because they're not in the Big 12 doesn't necessarily mean that the Big 12 didn't want them. I don't have a large screen TV, but that doesn't mean that I don't want one.

mussingaround
Palo Alto, CA

steeleute

Four of BYU's five losses last season were to Top 25 teams, including 3 road losses by a combined 10 points. With even a slightly improved offense, BYU could have easily finished 10-3 or 11-2.

Five of Utah's seven losses came against UNRANKED teams, including four double-digit losses. Utah wasn't even close to improving on a dismal season that ended with another embarrassing performance against another horrible Colorado team.

MacNasty
Rexburg, ID

Re: Spokane Ute @ 1:58 pm

Yeah, it was hitting the wrong key. I was in a hurry because I actually have a job and things to do. Pardon my slip.

Utah State was #22 in the BCS final rankings, BYU #55 and Utah #60.

Thanks for wishing me a great day. I think I will sit back and watch our 2012 bowl game; and you? Oh.....that's right, sorry.

steeleute
Sandy, UT

mussingaround:
You lost credibility at "BYU could have easily finished 10-3 or 11-2". You finished the regular season at 7-5 with an SOS in the mid seventies and this season you'll have an SOS around 25. I could make the same argument that if Utah had half of an offense last year they could have made a bowl game at 7-5 or 8-4 but I won't because I don't play the "if's and but's" game.

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