Comments about ‘BYU football: Cougars must secure their own bowl game alliances in the world of independence’

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Published: Sunday, June 16 2013 6:06 p.m. MDT

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TrueBlue
Orem, UT

Spokane Ute

"Exclude WAC/MWC teams from your definition of quality wins. Beating Utah State with a winning record is not the same as beating Alabama with a winning record."

Beating Utah State is not the same as beating Alabama, but beating ANY Top 25 team is certainly MUCH better than beating ANY unranked PAC 12 team, especially one with a losing record.

Get over your BCS arrogance!

NOBODY except U is impressed with your wins against losing teams.

In fact, only beating Colorado(1-11) 42-35 is more of an embarrassment, than an accomplishment!

phoenix
Gilbert, AZ

Spokane Ute

You seem to be grasping at straws because its becoming painfully obvious that Utah isn't even in the same hemisphere with BYU when it comes to comparing accomplishments on a national scale.

Take a deep breath and just admit it, it's back to the future for U. Just like the 80's, Utah's bowl game has once again become BYU.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Howie:
"Exclude WAC/MWC teams from your definition of quality wins. Beating Utah State with a winning record is not the same as beating Alabama with a winning record".
Your arrogance regarding BCS opponents is laughable. I guess Alabama should be even more upset that a midmajor Utah team that's done nothing since beating them, gave them such an embarrassing loss in the sugar bowl. You bag on Utah state, yet they lost on a last second field goal @ Wisconsin (B1G champion), and beat U (BCS pretender, but still BCS). I guess we should exclude our wins over Utah and TCU also because they were MWC. You sound like Oklahoma fans against Boise, like Alabama fans against Utah, etc. Your "BCS" arrogance doesn't make U a BCS quality team.

"What major conference teams with winning records has BYU beaten?"

Oregon, UCLA, Oklahoma, Oregon state, Washington, Georgia Tech...in the Mendenhall era. Do you want me to go further back? It gets better, lol. What's interesting is that many of the teams above that had winning regular seasons, are the exact programs Utah has been unable to beat (PAC12 teams with winning records).

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

True blue:
That statement was made by Howie, who's a ute troll and homer. Spokane ute is actually more reasonable than that.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

True Blue

You may want to get your facts straight before attacking someone. I certainly don't consider my self arrogant in any way, shape,or form.

Phoenix

I'm glad you have calmed down, I thought you were going to blow a gasket for goodness sake. Not grasping as straws at all, I merely mentioned head to head games, which really hit a nerve with you; for some reason? Last year was certainly disapointing, and I'm hoping for better fortune next year. The last 10 years have been awesome, so you may want to find some one elses parade to rain on. It's not going to work with me. Also, it's awesome how you can predict the future; now that's quite a talent!

MacNasty
Rexburg, ID

Re: Spokane Ute @ 7:27 am

Fine, you can wear your bride's maid hoodie. That was the year the Utes ranked #2 in the AP and #4 in the USA/Coaches poll. I was talking about watching the bowl season of 2012.

At any rate, I will wear my consensus National Championship sweater and you can wear yours...but wait, oh, sorry again.

MacNasty
Rexburg, ID

Re: Phoenix and Duckhunter,

Please be kind to the Ute Trolls. They are doing the best spin they can to minimize BYU's national accomplishments, brand, and legacy. They realize that the meaningful facts are not on their side so they engage in meaningless comparisons and ad nauseum numbers crunching minutia.

All they have had is five good seasons in the last forty years and a couple of 2nd and 4th place finishes on a national basis. Other than that, there cupboard is bare.

Ya know, somebody should compile the list of BYU's accomplishments and put it in a file. Every time a Ute troll comes on a BYU article, just paste the file in the comment section as a response. It will drive them crazy.

LonestarRunner
Salt Lake City, UT

Spokane Ute

You've never explained why you think one head-to-head win in a 12+ game schedule proves which team is better.

Overall records and rankings are much better indicators. I can give you countless examples that disprove your head-to-head theory, but here are just a few.

#1 Alabama unanimously winning the 2012 national championship in both the AP and Coaches Polls despite losing at home to #5 Texas A&M.

#2 Oregon finishing way ahead of #6/#7 Stanford in both polls, despite losing at home to the Cardinal.

And, closer to home, NOBODY, not even you, would even consider claiming that UNLV(2-10) was better than Utah(9-4) in 2007 just because the Rebels shut out the Utes 0-27,

or that Colorado(3-10) was better than Utah(8-5) in 2011 just because the Buffs beat the Utes on their home turf.

The exact same logic applies to head-to-head vs overall season results when comparing BYU and Utah.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Cougsndawgs:

"You're going to discredit Bronco because the Beavers weren't ranked in the final AP/Coaches polls? Why were they not in those polls, Nav? Oh that would be because BYU pounded them in the bowl game."

It would have been because Oregon St. finished 8-5 that year. 8-5 teams don't get ranked.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Riverton Cougar:

"Just because they're not in the Big 12 doesn't necessarily mean that the Big 12 didn't want them. I don't have a large screen TV, but that doesn't mean that I don't want one."

Actually, it DOES mean they weren't wanted. Don't forget that the Big 12 used to have 12 teams. Now there's 10. So it seems to me that there's 2 vacant spots in that league should THEY (the Big 12) decide to fill it.

Conference membership is a 2-way street. To be a member, the team must first be "invited". Once invited, the invitee must "want" to be a member, and "accept" the invitation. AFA (and our Indy-WACey little brother) WANT to be in the Big 12, so the only thing stopping them from joining is that they don't have an invitation.

And that's because the Big 12 doesn't WANT them.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@Macnasty

Yes, you must be so proud, knocking off a 6-6 Michigan team and not beating a single ranked team. Wha Hooo! Do you have to knock the moth balls off when you put it on? Just askin......

I've already stated that yes, 2012 was dissapointing, finishing one game from a bowl. Oh well, 9 out of 10 years isn't bad. I did enjoy watching the BYU-SDSU game; it was a good one.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

@ Lonestar

I've been over and over this again. There are many factors that go into determining who's the better team. In Utah and BYU's case, BYU was ranked higher. Utah played a tougher schedule. Utah BEAT BYU on the field. In my opinion, yes Utah was the better team. It's not as if Utah's win was a huge upset (aka Colorado vs Utah, or UNLV vs Utah). As far as Alabama-Texas A@M goes, yes, in my opinion, Texas A&M was the better team. They went into Tuskaloosa (sp) and knocked off Bama. They finished ranked #5. Maybe you should get on a SEC thread and tell Texas A&M fans that Bama was better. I'm sure they would second my opinion. Same goes for Stanford-Oregon. It's a debate that has no clear winner, or right or wrong answer. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am. I doubt either one of us will convince the other. Let's agree to disagree. I'm fine with that and I totally under stand your view point. An iterensting debate none the less.

MacNasty
Rexburg, ID

Re: Spokane Ute @ 11:27 am

You were the one that knocked off the moth balls first. You asked and I responded.

BTW: BYU was ranked #1 going into the Holiday bowl and ranked consensus #1 going out. Those are the facts. You can go by BYU whenever and look at the national championship trophy; it is still very shiny and still very real.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

MacNasty
Actually I do own the hoodie, but something tells me you don't have anything from almost 30 years ago. I will take my Sugar Bowl trophy season over 1984 any day of the week. I don't think you are being honest if you feel BYU's season was more impressive. To each his own. No need to be Nasty, just a differing opinion Guy. The fact of the matter is, BYU couldn't help who they played, the system was messed up. It's gotten better, and is going to get better.

LoneStar
You prefer to be renked slightly higher and lose to your bitter rival: equaling the better team.
I prefer to be ranked slightly lower and beat my bitter rival: equaling the better team.
It would be nice to do both. Anything out of the top 25 is pretty dissapointing to me anyway.
Fair Enough?
Question though, and be honest:
Would you really prefer to play a weaker schedule, lose to Utah, yet be ranked (out of the top 25) higher than Utah?

Rockwell
Baltimore, MD

Spokane Ute

"There are many factors that go into determining who's the better team. In Utah and BYU's case, BYU was ranked higher. Utah played a tougher schedule."

Despite your claims to the contrary, SOS is considered by the AP and Coaches poll voters. How else to you account for an undefeated team from the MAC or C-USA barely being ranked, while numerous 1- and 2-loss teams from the power conferences are ranked in the Top 10?

Your Sugar Bowl trophy is a great accomplishment, but NOTHING compares to a Crystal Football National Championship Trophy and the organization that awards that trophy, the American Football Coaches Association (AFCA) only ranked the Utes #4 in 2008, your greatest season ever. BYU's Cotton Bowl winning team of 1996 finished #5 in the Coaches poll.

MacNasty
Rexburg, ID

Re: Spokane Ute @ 11:51 am

"I will take my Sugar Bowl trophy season over 1984 any day of the week."

That is fine with me because Spokane Ute, that is all you have.

"I don't think you are being honest if you feel BYU's season was more impressive."

I am being totally honest. I don't have to spin it upward like you do your Sugar Bowl win. It was, is and will remain at the top. You are not being honest with yourself or anybody in pretending that a 2nd/4th place win is actually better than a National Championship.

"Actually I do own the hoodie, but something tells me you don't have anything from almost 30 years ago."

I take offense at that. In the words of Judy the elf in the movie The Santa Claus, I probably "have shoes older than you."

giantfan
Farmington, UT

Spokane Ute,

"I don't think you are being honest if you feel BYU's season was more impressive."

So let me get this straight: any BYU fan that thinks a 1984 national championship winning season is more impressive than Utah's 2008 #2/#4 season is being dishonest? That's quite a statement, and in the words of NV, quite "emotional and frantic". If you polled the entire College Football world, do you think they would agree with you? Doubtful. But, I realize that me saying so is just an opinion, as is your statement about not being honest.

Here is a fact for you (as in, NOT an opinion): There are two lists out there. The first is a list of programs that have won a consensus Division 1-A (FBS) football championship and the second is a list of those that have not. My opinion about that is a vast majority of people on the planet would consider being on list #1 far more impressive than being on list #2. Again, just my opinion.

Wiscougarfan
River Falls, WI

RE: Spokane Ute

"I will take my Sugar Bowl trophy season over 1984 any day of the week. I don't think you are being honest if you feel BYU's season was more impressive."

That is a fair point, and one I might agree with (that Utah's 2004 SEASON was more impressive than BYU's 1984 season). However, it is very debatable which of those two TEAMS were better. Remember that BYU was riding a 24 game winning streak at the conclusion of 1984 and had been ranked in the top 15 six of seven years from 1979-1985. I don't know how many players were drafted during that span but I bet it was more than a few. Given the dynasty they were in the early 1980s it is no wonder that they were named the CONSENSUS national champions in 1984, even in an era when nearly one third of all national champions have not been consensus. I don't mean to take anything away from Utah (2004, 2008), they were certainly dominant teams, I just don't think they were better than BYU's 1984 squad.

Ufan
Salt Lake City, UT

Spokane Ute

"Would you really prefer to play a weaker schedule, lose to Utah, yet be ranked (out of the top 25) higher than Utah?"

Fair question:

2011:
Utah(8-5) was unranked, #49 SOS. Utah had a huge turnover-aided win over BYU, but also suffered a humiliating loss at home to a 10-loss team that hadn't won a road game in over four years.

BYU(10-3) beat a much higher ranked team, #35 Tulsa, in the Armed Forces Bowl, than Utah beat in the Sun Bowl, #56 Georgia Tech. BYU finished #25 Coaches, #26 AP, #34 Sagarin, much better than not receiving a single vote in either poll and finishing #39 Sagarin.

2012:

Utah(5-7) finished unranked, #61 in Sagarin, #41 SOS, no bowl, 0-2 against Top 25 opponents, and barely beating BYU as Utah's only win against a winning team.

BYU(8-5) finished unranked, but #26 in Sagarin, #63 SOS, 1-4 versus Top 25 teams, but very competitive road losses against three Top 25 teams and BYU's fourth straight bowl win.

Despite a couple of disappointing losses to Utah, I prefer BYU's better overall success in 2011 and 2012.

Spokane Ute
Spokane, WA

Wow, what a reaction. When someone honestly tells me that BYU's 1984 season was more impressive then Utah's 2008 team, there's no need to go on trying to be rational. There's no comparison. BYU's 1996 cotton bowl team was better then the 1984 team. Look at the numbers. in 1984 BYU won the NC by default. Was it their fault? Of course not, they played a weak schedule and beat an average team in a bowl game, but finished as the only undefeated, and #1 ranked team. I wish they would have had the opportunity to play a top team like Bama (2008); or even Kansas St.like BYU in 96. They could very well have won. So which of these teams were better? We will never know. 2011 & 2012 seasons? Yes, very close indeed. Statistically, BYU has a slight edge. Utah has score board. The 54-10 smack down in 2011 is hard to over look.

Wiscoug, Rockwell, & UFan, nice rationale posts. Always nice to back up your position with stats and facts. Macnasty, you are in here to pick a fight; good luck with that. Everyone have a good one; I need a drink 8-)

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