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Published: Saturday, June 15 2013 8:55 p.m. MDT

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The Deuce
Livermore, CA

To: GK Willington, Salt Lake City, UT - you stated the following: "supernatural mumbo jumbo??" Do you really want to take the bet that there isn't some supernatural mumbo humbo?

Contrarius
Lebanon, TN

@dlw7 --

"I'm not sure whether they are your thoughts or someone who you have read from."

Supersessionism, fulfillment theology, replacement theology, New Covenant theology, and dispensationalism are all well known theological terms. If you'd like to know more about them, look em up.

From what you are sharrona are saying, it appears that Mormonism may be well outside the Christian mainstream on this issue. I'll just repeat one small excerpt from what I posted previously:

"The PREDOMINANT CHRISTIAN VIEW is that Jesus mediates a New Covenant relationship between God and his followers, according to the New Testament, which ENDED or set aside SOME OR ALL of the Old Covenant. .... "

"dlw7: "We, as Christians, cannot pick and chose the things we believe in. "

Then you should be happy to stone anyone who divorces and remarries. Such people are adulterers according to the Bible, and adulterers deserve death.

You should be happy to marry your brother's wife when your brother dies.

You should never ever eat shrimp.

Right?

The fact is, people "pick and choose" from the Bible all the time.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Contrarius,”The PREDOMINANT CHRISTIAN VIEW is that Jesus mediates a New Covenant relationship between God and his followers, according to the New Testament, which ENDED or set aside SOME OR ALL of the Old Covenant.” .... Wrong,

The Catholic Church states: The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them; the Second Vatican Council confirms: 'The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord ... the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.'"

Jesus in Mt 5:17-19 teaches that all OT laws (Moral)are still in force but, not the Ceremonial Law, The ceremonial laws are called hukkim or chuqqah in Hebrew, which literally means “custom of the nation”.

Contrarius
Lebanon, TN

@sharrona --

"which ENDED or set aside SOME OR ALL of the Old Covenant.” .... Wrong,"

Read my statements again, Sharrona. That first one clearly states "SOME OR ALL". As I already demonstrated, some theological systems throw out all of the Old Testament, others hang onto parts of it -- like the Ten Commandments. Your quotes haven't contradicted a single thing I said.

If you don't believe in supersessionism, fulfillment theology, replacement theology, New Covenant theology, or dispensationalism, that's your prerogative -- but the vast majority of Christians do believe in some form of at least one of them.

 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:37-40)

"For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other." (Galatians 5:14-15)

Contrarius
Lebanon, TN

For Sharrona --

Here's an additional quote specifically from the Catholic perspective on supersessionism for your edification, from a site originating at Princeton. Emphases once again mine:

"the Catholic Church does officially teach that the Mosaic covenant was fulfilled and replaced by the New Covenant in Christ. [....]The Church’s teaching regarding the fulfillment and replacement of the Mosaic Covenant by the New Covenant in Christ can be found in the Scriptures, the Fathers and various Magisterial documents: Pope Pius XII, in the encyclical Mystici corporis (1943) states: 'By the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished;'[....]While acting as prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Pope Benedict XVI wrote: 'God, according to the Prophet, will replace the broken Sinai covenant with a New Covenant that cannot be broken . . . . The conditional covenant, which depended on man’s faithful observance of the Law, is replaced by the unconditional covenant in which God binds himself irrevocably.' "

I'll repeat: Mormonism is apparently way outside the Christian mainstream on this one.

Are you ready to stone those adulterous divorcees?

Doc1895
Chassell, MA

One of the extraordinary measures of social regression that we have seen in this country has been the insistence that the interests of the LGBT community be interjected into every aspect of American life, including the disregard of fundamental moral ordnances. The Christian Bible clearly defines homosexuality as perverse behavior and is condemned by God. That doesn't mean the homosexual is not loved as a person, but their continual unrepentant behavior is unacceptable. Everyone deserves full equality. But, the so-called LGBT community already has full equality, not just partial equality. The LGBT community is no longer seeking tolerance, but instead seeking acquiescence to the notion that their lifestyle is every bit as healthy as the traditional American family. Of course, this is simply absurd!

Contrarius
Lebanon, TN

@Doc1895 --

"The Christian Bible clearly defines homosexuality as perverse behavior and is condemned by God."

Many many Christians (and also Jews) disagree with you.

Many Christian and Jewish denominations are already happy to perform gay weddings in their churches. They are quite able to reconcile their religious beliefs with support for gay rights.

"But, the so-called LGBT community already has full equality, not just partial equality. "

This is simply not true. As long as discrimination against them still exists -- not only in their ability to marry, but also in such areas as employment, housing, and simple safety -- then they will still not have full equality.

"Of course, this is simply absurd!"

Why?

Where gay people are allowed to marry, their divorce rates are as low as or lower than the divorce rates of straight people.

All reputable groups of child-development experts in this country SUPPORT gay marriage, because they recognize that children grow up just fine in gay-led households.

Hundreds of thousands of gay couples in this country are already raising children.

Why are gay-led families absurd?

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