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Comments about ‘Survey: Gay and lesbian population has unique religious profile’

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Published: Saturday, June 15 2013 8:55 p.m. MDT

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cavetroll
SANDY, UT

@someone Pinch Me

You obviously misunderstand the difference btween "religious affiliation" and being religious. Just because a person does not have a religious affiliation does not mean they cannot be religious.

@zoar

"Which parts of the bible are the word of God and which parts are not?"
None of the Bible is God's word. The Bible is man's interpretation of God's word. Just like the Quran, the Torah, and the Book of Mormon.

@banderson

"Isn't it interesting how knowledge that was once self-evident (marriage is between a man and a women) is lost when people make choices that conflict with God's word?"
Do you mean like when the LDS Church believed polygamy was "ordained by God"? Or when Abraham had many concubines?

Mainly Me
Werribee, 00

Heavenly Father loves the sinner, not the sin. However, since God is the same yesterday, today and forever, that means he doesn't change. If homosexuality was wrong in the Old and New Testaments, why would he change his mind today. Is he going to say, "Opps, I made a mistake in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah?"

Nope.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

Dear Ranch: Name calling is used to try to shame others when one has no good counter arguments. Your argument isn't with religion or with religious people. It is with God. No one likes to be told that their choices are in violation of God's laws. It's always much easier to live in denial and resort to name calling.

I feel sorry for the struggles of others. I really respect those who struggle with SSA, but choose to live the law of chastity.

The Dixie Kid
Saint George, UT

@ JD
This is nothing like Blacks and the priesthood. The LDS Church's doctrine on immorality will not change.

MJF
Somewhere in Time, UT

Bebybe: Wow! You did a great job of misinterpreting and mischaracterizing the scriptures. Denial is NOT a river in Egypt.

Vince here
San Diego, CA

"If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

So for for those citing the often-repeated justification of "hate the sin, love the sinner" - please learn to quote scripture.

The quote ""hate the sin, love the sinner" is nowhere in the Bible. Look it up. Not there.

You are making doctrine and using it as a justification to imply that what, heterosexuals are better?

Stop it.

"For all of us are sinners and come short of the Glory of God" Rom 3:23

However, the issue at hand is not to define sin on the grounds of constitutional law.

Imagine you go to get a marriage license, and the clerk tells you "You have sinned, you cannot get married."

So let's get off this issue of sin - used to demean people -

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

CB: "The sin lies in the behavior, not the orientation... Heterosexuals, who do not marry, live under the same commandments."

The problem is the game is rigged. Straight couples have the option to get married, which gives them the opportunity to engage in behaviors that previously would have been taboo. Same-sex couples do not have that option. They can never get that legal pass that makes their behavior OK. Straights and gays may live under the same commandments, but they don't play by the same rules.

In the print edition of this paper, this article was juxtaposed on the page opposite an article on suicide. Is it any wonder that GLBT people have higher suicide rates when the religious institutions that are supposed to provide meaning and comfort in life instead foster attitudes that cause rejection, even by family members?

DanO
Mission Viejo, CA

Cats, dear. Please point out where Ranch resorted to name-calling. It didn't happen. If you took offense to what Ranch said, than maybe it's because it's hitting too close to home.

dlw7
LOGAN, UT

No fooling??? The Old and New Testaments which are accepted by almost all organized churches are VERY explicit about homosexuality and God's views on the subject. Man can change things around to accept man's belief, but what is unacceptable to God then, is unacceptable to God now!!!

USAlover
Salt Lake City, UT

God is more merciful than we are ready to believe

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Cats
"Name calling is used to try to shame others when one has no good counter arguments."

Says the person who is trying to shame others by judging others as opposing God...

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

@ dlw7: " The Old and New Testaments which are accepted by almost all organized churches are VERY explicit about homosexuality and God's views on the subject."

To be correct, your comment should specify "Christian organized churches".

To be even more correct, your comment should state that "Christian organized churches accept some version of the Old and New Testaments, some of which are very explicit about homosexuality and some of which are more open to interpretation on the subject."

Many religions do not believe either the Old nor the New Testaments - the dictates of your belief system are not the dictates of their belief system.

amazondoc
USA, TN

@dlw7 --

"The Old and New Testaments...are VERY explicit about homosexuality and God's views on the subject."

We've had lots of Bible-related discussions here in the DN comments section. Here's what they boil down to:

1. Old Testament laws were replaced by the New Covenant.
2. Jesus never said a word against homosexuality.
3. Homosexuality isn't mentioned anywhere in the Gospels, except for one passage in which Jesus acknowledges -- WITHOUT condemnation -- that some men are "born eunuchs" (in ancient texts, the term "eunuch" included homosexuals) and that such men should not marry women. (Matthew 19:12)
4. Paul didn't like homosexuals. Paul also supported slavery, believed that women were inferior to men, and told everyone that nobody should ever get divorced. He was a mortal, fallible man. Paul was the ONLY person in the New Testament who spoke against homosexuality.
5. Many religious people -- including Christians, Jews, and members of other faiths -- support gay rights. They have no trouble reconciling the text of the Bible with the full citizenship of gay people.
6. Even if God DOES consider homosexuality a sin, it isn't our job to judge. Judging is GOD'S job.

dlw7
LOGAN, UT

amazondoc/Kalinda; In the article it specifically mention several general religions, most of who accept the Bible as the basis of their doctrine. Hence, my statement. You can not assume to throw out the Old Testament as being fulfilled. What do we do about the 10 commandments...out the window with the statements about homosexuality? It does no good to argue about this. The old saying "Convince a man against his will, he's of the same opinion still" is so true in dealing with this subject. I have friends and relatives to are of the homosexual persuasion. I have them and appreciate them and interact with them, but I do NOT share their beliefs.

amazondoc
USA, TN

@dlw7 --

"You can not assume to throw out the Old Testament..."

I don't have to "assume" anything.

"...the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises." (Hebrews 8:6)

"By calling this covenant 'new,' he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."(Hebrews 8:13)

"...Christ is the mediator of a new covenant...he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant." (Hebrews 9:15)

"to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel." (Hebrews 12:24)

And:

"The commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not covet,' and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

"Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Romans 13: 8-10

dlw7
LOGAN, UT

amazondoc; You seem to know the scriptures but your understanding is greatly lacking. But then, that is my opinion (to which I am entitled) and does not have to agree with yours. So, I think we "agree to disagree", at least on this subject

sharrona
layton, UT

@amazondoc1. O.T. laws were replaced by the New Covenant, Wrong.

Jesus teaches in Mt 5:17-19 that all OT laws are still in force. Jesus didn't do away with any of God's laws. Rather, he emphasized that we ought to obey God not only in our actions, but also in our hearts. We have to keep every OT law in the spirit, in its attitude and purpose. God's laws are written in our hearts and minds (Heb. 8:10).

Romans 3:20, 31; 7:12,14, Once we recognize that some OT laws, although still valid in purpose, are obsolete in the letter of the law.

RE: plainbrownwrapper, simplicity of the people who were living at that time.

Not God ,Psalm 139:4 Before a word is on my tongue you, LORD(Jehovah) know it completely. 1 John 3:20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

Creation Ex Nihlio In (2Tim 1:9 & Titus 1:2)God existed before time, implying he created time. …And (Romans 4:17 NIV )God who gives life to the dead and Calls into Being things that were not.

amazondoc
USA, TN

@dlw7 --

"So, I think we "agree to disagree", at least on this subject"

And that's fine. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions.

Just keep in mind that *many* religious people disagree with you.

Many Christian (and also Jewish) denominations are already happy to perform gay church marriages.

Many gay people are deeply religious.

Many openly gay people are preachers/priests/pastors, some even Bishops, and some serve in other church functions.

More than 50% of the American population now supports gay marriage, according to several national polls.

So even though *you* may think that homosexuality is "unacceptable to God", many many other people disagree with you.

-----

Oh, also: Zoar was sort of kvetching the other day about me using a quote from Paul in regards to the Commandments -- so here's a different one to replace it:

"Jesus replied: '"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself." All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:37-40)

amazondoc
USA, TN

@sharrona --

"O.T. laws were replaced by the New Covenant, Wrong."

The LDS church may reject supersessionism -- but most Christian theology disagrees with you.

For brevity, here's a few excerptsa from various wikipedia pages -- emphases mine:

"The PREDOMINANT CHRISTIAN VIEW is that Jesus mediates a New Covenant relationship between God and his followers, according to the New Testament, which ENDED or set aside SOME OR ALL of the Old Covenant. .... "

"...MOST Christian theology reflects the view that at least some Mosaic laws have been set aside under the New Covenant, (and) there are some theology systems that view the ENTIRE Mosaic or Old Covenant as abrogated in that ALL of the Mosaic laws are set aside for the Law of Christ."

"Supersessionism, fulfillment theology, and replacement theology are terms for the biblical interpretation that the New Covenant SUPERSEDES OR REPLACES the ...Old Covenant....the view they cover is considered part of MOST TRADITIONAL CHRISTIAN VIEWS of the Old Covenant..."

"New Covenant Theology sees ALL Old Covenant laws as "cancelled" or "abrogated" in favor of the Law of Christ or the New Testament."

"Traditional dispensationalists believe ONLY the New Testament applies to the church of today. ... "

dlw7
LOGAN, UT

@amazondoc; It is interesting how you take scriptures, recognized by Christian churches as "the word of God" and apply man's theories and interpretations to them. I'm not sure whether they are your thoughts or someone who you have read from. We, as Christians, cannot pick and chose the things we believe in. We accept the scriptures as God's dealings with his people during different time frames. Truly, Christ did set a higher law for us...to love as He loved.... unconditionally. That does not mean we should have to accept man's interpretation of those laws

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