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Comments about ‘Survey: Gay and lesbian population has unique religious profile’

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Published: Saturday, June 15 2013 8:55 p.m. MDT

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Someone Pinch Me
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

When you live a life in direct contrast with God's word, no further denunciation is needed!

isrred
South Jordan, UT

And this surprises you?

When your innate, God given nature tells you one thing about yourself and religious people in various religions tell you something different about yourself, is it any surprise that a large portion reject the religions that tell them evil things about themselves that they don't believe?

Really???
Kearns, UT

I am very saddened by the final quote in the article. How heart wrenching it is to know that your family will not accept you if they find out about your orientation. One step we need to take is to get rid of the love the sinner, but hate the sin attitude. Nobody needs that mantra hanging over their head every day--all just need to be loved first.

plainbrownwrapper
Nashville, TN

@Someone Pinch Me --

"When you live a life in direct contrast with God's word, no further denunciation is needed!"

Many religious people support gay rights AND gay people. Your personal interpretation of "God's word" isn't necessarily the correct one.

As for "denunciation" -- remember, it is GOD who should do the judging, not you.

" Judge not, that ye be not judged." Matthew 7:1

"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?" James 4:12

Your ONLY job is to LOVE your neighbors -- even if you don't agree with them.

----------

"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and WHATEVER OTHER COMMAND THERE MAY BE, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Romans 13: 8-10

CB
Salt Lake City, UT

The sin lies in the behavior, not the orientation. If a person knowing the commandments given
by God, finding themselves living outside of those boundaries feeling guilty, it is not the
the religion or religious people that condemn them, but their own conscience.
Heterosexuals, who do not marry, live under the same commandments. Either orientation, who are
religiously active, will find the same feelings of guilt and rejection among their peers living
outside of those commandments. Unfortunately none of us live with the perfect situation, none of us are without our burdens, be it health, sexuality, intelligence, attractiveness, etc. We ultimately become the sum total of the choices that we make, and those choices are best made
with the Lord as our guide.

GK Willington
Salt Lake City, UT

To Someone Pinch Me

I agree w/ isrred. When you are being honest with yourself and get marginalized for it, why bother with condemnation of the self-righteously shallow who hold on to supernatural mumbo jumbo??

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

I usually get countermanded for suggesting religion divides us or contradicts itself, but here it is. A sign on a church building, welcoming all including gays. Yet the next church down the road will by no means extend the same courtesy, based on the same playbook. These schisms suggest the obvious: religion is a tool of man, an extension of our innate bias and fear which can be used to justify behaviour that otherwise could not be justified.

BCA
Murrieta, CA

As the father of a gay son and having lived seeing firsthand the attitude of the religious about gays, I lay most of the bigotry in the world against gays at the feet of religion. I have listened to so many anti-gay statements from church members before it came out that my son was gay. It honestly doesn't matter the religion. Saying that they are defective and welcoming at the same time, doesn't make you a person that a gay wants to be around. Pretty simple and yet the religious don't seem to understand why gays don't appreciate the kind of "love" they are given.

How does "Hate Mormonism, love the Mormon" make you feel, especially when combined with: "You need to quit being a Mormon to make it to heaven." "You can come to our church, but don't do or say anything Mormon." "Be careful of how tolerant you are of a Mormon as you may be advancing the cause of Satan." None of these would make a Mormon feel they were loved and yet gays hear similar things directed to them all the time.

plainbrownwrapper
Nashville, TN

@CB --

"If a person knowing the commandments given by God"

Sorry, but there is no commandment that says "thou shalt not be homosexual".

Married gay people aren't breaking **any** of the commandments, since they aren't even having sex outside of marriage.

Nonetheless, some religious people would deny gays the *ability* to marry. How does that make any sense? Gay people get criticized for having sex outside of marriage -- yet they aren't allowed to get married so they can have sex INSIDE of marriage? Hypocrisy, much?

"Either orientation, who are religiously active, will find the same feelings of guilt and rejection among their peers"

That's a load of malarkey.

One simple example: single straight men are allowed to be Scoutleaders in the BSA, and nobody ever asks them whether or not they are celibate. Yet any honestly gay man who applies to be a BSA leader is automatically assumed to be sexually active and therefore "sinning". Big time double standard.

zoar63
Mesa, AZ

@plainbrownwrapper

The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and WHATEVER OTHER COMMAND THERE MAY BE, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 13: 8-10"

What about the first chapter of Romans. It is by the same person as Romans 13. You have in the past said though that what Paul wrote is his own opinion. Does that also apply to Chapter 13 or is it just chapter one? Which parts of the bible are the word of God and which parts are not? Are we to accept ideas and concepts from the Bible that make us feel comfortable and ignore those which make us feel uncomfortable?

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

I always think it's so sad when I see people who know the difference between right and wrong until it effects a member of their own family. Then it's different.

MapleDon
Springville, UT

Interesting and expected statistics. Of course those whose behavior doesn't fit the teachings (Bible, etc.) are going to go elsewhere. We have gay friends who are very active and happy in their non-evangelical Christian churches.

"The [LDS] church has also supported local ordinances banning employment and housing discrimination based on sexual orientation." True. And perhaps the Church could explain why it requires the rest of us to obey such ordinances when they don't. Isn't that hypocrisy? Shouldn't they set the example of non-discrimination, or was this just another PR stunt?

The PR efforts by the LDS Church to reach out to the gay community have been interesting to watch. It's quite obvious that the Church wants to be viewed as the good guy to the outside world. Within, however, the finger of shame is frequently wagged from the highest pulpits and pointed at the lay for not keeping any and all commandments. Again, it has been interesting to watch.

plainbrownwrapper
Nashville, TN

@zoar --

"You have in the past said though that what Paul wrote is his own opinion. Does that also apply to Chapter 13 or is it just chapter one? "

Hey, YOU are the guys who want us to believe everything Paul said. I'm just quoting the guy. ;-)

Paul was a mortal man, and very fallible. If you become willing to admit that fact, then I'll be very happy. :-)

"Which parts of the bible are the word of God and which parts are not?"

According to you (general "you" here -- the folks who keep arguing against homosexuality), ALL of them are.

Of course, y'all still ignore the parts you don't like -- like the support for slavery, or the insistence that women are inferior to men, or the parts commanding you to NOT get divorced, or all the "patriarchs" who committed incest, and so on..... ;-)

"Are we to accept ideas and concepts from the Bible that make us feel comfortable and ignore those which make us feel uncomfortable?"

You tell me. How do YOU feel about slavery, or the status of women, or about people who get divorced, or incest?

Ranch
Here, UT

@Cats;

I always think its so sad when I see people who know the difference between right and wrong (bigotry is WRONG) who THINK they know what "god" would have them do. Its quite discouraging really.

J.D.
Aurora, CO

I feel it is only a matter of time before the church view on this issue changes. Like blacks in the priesthood new revelation will soon be given.

sharrona
layton, UT

To: plainbrownwrapper,

RE: God Judge not, that ye be not judged." Matthew 7:1. Many people have ripped this passage out of context, however. Jesus warns us not to assume God's prerogative to condemn the guilty; he is not warning us not to discern truth from error (see 7:15-23).

@James 4:12…God will judge all people by the *law that he gave. The authority to judge belongs to God alone. God is the Lord of life and death. He alone is able to save life or to destroy it.

@Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Romans 13: 8-10.

You like to quote Paul,OK Ephesians 6:2,3. Honor your Father and Mother”[not significant Other],which is the first commandment=(law*) with a promise. God distinguishes father and mother from all other persons on earth, chooses them and sets them next to Himself, occupying the highest place in our lives next to God.

VAggie
Bristow, United States

Much of the conflicts could be avoided if people listened to each other instead of basing everything off false perceptions of each other

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Isn't it interesting how knowledge that was once self-evident (marriage is between a man and a women) is lost when people make choices that conflict with God's word? Fortunately, there will be enough continuing to search and ponder His word that the self-evident truths will not be lost.

plainbrownwrapper
Nashville, TN

@sharrona --

"Jesus warns us not to assume God's prerogative to condemn the guilty"

That's exactly what I've been saying all along. Thanks for confirming it. :-)

As I've been saying: it is NOT your (general "you") job to judge. That's God's job.

"The authority to judge belongs to God alone"

That's exactly what I've been saying. Thanks again for confirming it. :-)

"Honor your Father and Mother”[not significant Other],which is the first commandment..."

Sure. Remember, the people of that time didn't have any sort of reproductive technology, nor even much in the way of adoptions. The commandment was congruent with the technological simplicity of the people who were living at that time.

Similarly, the Bible never mentions airplanes. Guess why. Does that make airplanes evil? Nope.

@J.D. --

"I feel it is only a matter of time before the church view on this issue changes. Like blacks in the priesthood new revelation will soon be given."

I suspect you're right.

I am usually impressed with the political savvy of LDS leadership. As the tide continues to turn against them, I expect to eventually hear about a new revelation concerning gays.

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

"God will judge all people by the *law that he gave. The authority to judge belongs to God alone. "

Not you. So all you judging gays are usurping authority from God.

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