Comments about ‘Believers, nonbelievers vent over religious expressions during graduation’

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Published: Wednesday, June 12 2013 11:15 a.m. MDT

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@eternal perspective

if the LDS church was not involved in prop 8 why were they fined 5,538 dollars for violating campaign finance laws? The inability to tell the truth, not really a good thing when one is trying to claim the moral high ground.


@eternal perspective

"Actually, it was not the LDS Church as a whole that backed proposition 8, because their official mantra is to stay out of politics."

from a 2008 AP article:

Two members of the church's second-highest governing body, the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, quoted from Mormon scripture on the sanctity of marriage as they laid out a week-by-week strategy for boosting Mormon involvement before the Nov. 4 election in voter registration efforts, phone banks and distributing campaign materials.

“What we're about is the work of the Lord, and He will bless you for your involvement,” apostle M. Russell Ballard said during the hour-long meeting, which was broadcast to church buildings in California, Utah, Hawaii and Idaho.

the funny thing is it is dishonest people within modern religions that have done far more damage to religions standing in society then any secularist could ever do.

Eldersburg, MD

als Atheist

And how is your portrayal and perception of "religious zealots" as an opinion, any different than what secular groups are doing in America today?

Is this not simply a reverse of trying to convince Christians they need no longer affirm their beliefs in the public square because of not being an active majority in America?

Is the secular movement really about equality, or does it really seek to tip the balance of power in the favor of unbelievers to exact revenge upon what they perceive as the "oppressers of religion" to act in like manner?

It doesn't matter to me what people call it, but a rose by any other name is still a rose. The motivations of secularism are to completely undermine America's Christian foundation with religions, churches, and moral values.

In the end, it is simply substituting one "oppressive" ideology for another. But, then again, not all those of religion are oppressive, just like the same can be said of unbelievers. Funny how people become so strongly opinionated with generalities that they come to see things just as myopic as their narrow understanding of reality dictates.

spring street

@eternal perspective
allowing other their rights does not force you to forgo your own. You will not be forced to divorce and get married to someone of the same gender, you are not forced to own a gun you are not forced to have an abortion or drink alcohol etc. you will still get to believe they are sins or unwise or what ever you think about them. You are still able and will continue to be able to voice your beliefs but when you pass a law forbidding others from doing so because of your religious beliefs that is oppression.


@ fish8: While there may be a certain amount of majority rule, the Constitution protects the minority from having their rights violated by the majority.

As for violation of freedom of expression - until students have the same right to invoke curse words and God, no one is being singled out for persecution. If we want true freedom if expression, let's have true freedom of expression. Otherwise, it is very disingenuous to claim your inability to offend others is different from their inability to offend you.

als Atheist
Provo, UT

The oppressing force of religion (particularly Christianity) is manifest in the completely erroneous assumption of the following statement:

"The motivations of secularism are to completely undermine America's Christian foundation with religions, churches, and moral values."

America is not "founded" on Christianity, Christian religions, Christian Churches, and Christian moral values. It never was, and never should be "founded" on Christianity or any other religion. No religion, least of all Christianity, should get any favor, preference, or privileged position historically or contemporaneously in any way, shape or form.

The fact that some people assume that the United States is, or ought to be, a "Christian Nation" is just one frightening example of how blinded by religious fervor many people continue to be.

And that blindness is what leads to denying civil rights to those who believe differently than the religious folks. That is oppression.

G L W8

Where is this all leading to? The atheists I knew a generation ago were able to sit down & have a rational discussion with believers. Now, it seems that the battle lines are being drawn. How long before this "religious cold war" escalates into a hot one?
If that happens, those who profess non-belief will tack it up as another example of religious oppression; whereas their hands will be just as sullied and dirty.

Mesa, AZ

@als Atheist

"OK. So in the name of "no taxation without representation," I and my atheist fellow Americans will gladly support such mingling of religious influence with public and government IF and only if:

- You have me, an atheist, ordained a member of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles, so that I can represent the atheist tax dollars in decision-making

- An atheist is appointed to the top leadership councils of the Southern Baptist Convention, to represent the atheist perspective there

- As there are twice as many atheists in the US as there are Mormons or Jews, and "Nones" are about 20% of the population, a non-believer/unaffiliated person must give every fifth talk in all religious meetings."

That would never happen

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

If congress makes laws putting conditions on how a religion is to be run then they are prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

A Guy With A Brain
Enid, OK

Article quote: "And in Kentucky, an atheist graduate alerted the ACLU and the Freedom From Religion Foundation after his senior class president subjected him to "religious bullying by leading the graduating class in a prayer,” over the objections of a half dozen students."

"Religious bullying?" By listening to a one 30 second prayer?

That is utter nonsense. Nonsense!

How long, Lord, do we have to put up with such stupidity?

I was in the country of Jordan not more than a year ago for 30 days. Every morning at 4AM you heard the speakers outside the hotel broadcasting the morning prayers by faithful Muslims. It was LOUD and lasted 10-15 minutes and occured SEVERAL times every day.

Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that the person who objected to the "religious bullying" of a Christian would be TOTALLY accepting of these Muslim prayers in Jordan?

A Guy With A Brain
Enid, OK

@ als Atheist - Provo, UT - "America is not founded on Christianity.....and Christian moral values. It never was, and never should be founded on Christianity...."

America was not founded on Christian principles??

You're joking, right?

Have you read NOTHING about the founding of America?

Your comment: Simply. Not. True.

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