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BYU football: Cougars receive commitments from two offensive line prospects

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  • Think It Through Scottsdale, AZ
    June 14, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    @ekute and all Ute fans

    All I ever hear in your argument is, "We play in the Pac-12" and "We've won 2 bowl games" Rather than combat programs statistically, you rely on 2 things: that fact that you did win 2 bowl games and you are in the Pac-12. You won those bowl games as a non-BCS school. So, why then argue against BYU's independence saying non-BCS schools are inferior? You're stating your successes are now negated because you weren't in a power conference when you actually did anything noteworthy. Now, lets see if you're capable of evaluating the team you support not the league. It seems the reason you all so strongly pull the Pac-12 card is because you want to ride the curtail of the Stanfords and USCs in the world. I have a nephew who plays basketball for Lehi, is Lehi good at basketball because they played in the same league as a team that finished ranked #1 in the nation (Lone Peak). Nope, turns out their record says they're pretty bad. They are just like you and finished with a sub .500 record.

  • Beck to Harline Provo, UT
    June 14, 2013 4:16 a.m.

    These debates are just exhausting to read. It's history. Let it go. For Utah fans to diminish BYU's national championship is ridiculous. It was consensus. That means everyone. Not just BYU fans---I'm talking to you Coach Stobart. Yet, for BYU fans to proclaim relevancy based on '84 is also ridiculous. For Utah fans to proclaim program (keyword) superiority based on their head-to-head BYU record (especially recently) as well as the illustrious participation award they get for PAC12 membership, is ridiculous. If PAC12 participation denotes relevance, then every Utah fan comment that is derogatory towards BYU for a) playing a "BCS" team, b) scheduling a "BCS" team, or c) receiving a commitment from a player that had "BCS" offers/interest is entirely moot.

    Go Cougs.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    June 12, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    @Sportsauthority...."You say that now, but would you really be saying that if Alabama(12-1), Florida(12-1) and Notre Dame(11-1) were chosen as three of the four playoff teams, and Ohio State(12-1), USC(12-1), Oklahoma(12-1), and Boise St(12-1) were left to squabble over the last remaining playoff spot."

    I say that now because it's the truth now and they (SEC) have proven it for nearly the last decade. If this scenario you present was to happen over Boise absolutley no debate. The others would be tougher to say depends on the year I guess and the conference strength.

    I'm not one of those fan's that will say mid-major's deserve a shot with the same record as BCS conference teams. In 2008 I think Utah deserved a shot at Nat. title however do I think they would have went undefeated in the SEC that year, no way! So IMO and SEC team with the same record definitley deserves the shot over a mid-major.
    Utah/TCU/Boise/Hawaii/Y in their undefeated seasons I don't think any would have done so in the ACC/SEC/PAC12/BIG10/BIG12.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 12, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    2B

    re @swoop: "Can't wait to hear to squawking when the SEC gets two teams in the playoffs."

    "What squawking? SEC is the best conference hands down."

    You say that now, but would you really be saying that if Alabama(12-1), Florida(12-1) and Notre Dame(11-1) were chosen as three of the four playoff teams, and Ohio State(12-1), USC(12-1), Oklahoma(12-1), and Boise St(12-1) were left to squabble over the last remaining playoff spot.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    June 12, 2013 9:11 a.m.

    (continued)

    With 120+ major college programs, schedules are very uneven, so it's sometimes impossible to tell whether the champion of one conference is actually better than the 3rd-place team from another conference. SOS isn't a fool-proof determinant either. The best team in the country could play in a small conference with an awful SOS. Their SOS doesn't prove they're not the best team, it only proves they weren't as rigorously tested.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    June 12, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    2B

    I haven't seen any BYU fans claiming that head-to-head doesn't matter, just that head-to-head isn't the sole determinant of which team is better. As you said, upsets happen. Even in a playoff, subjective judging of teams will occur. Some teams will be "over-rated", some "under-rated". Who's to say that the 5th-ranked team in a four-team playoff, or the 9th-ranked team in an eight-team playoff, isn't the best team. A team that just missed the playoffs could be the best team, but they'll never get a chance to proof it.

    Playoffs work much better in the pros because with only 30+ teams we get a much broader sample of head-to-head comparisons.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 12, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    Two things I can guarantee: 1) there will be a Big 12 team left out of the 4 team playoff because of no CCG, or sits comfortably in the top 4 while a major conference team loses out because of a CCG & 2) the SEC will have 2 teams in at some point. Anyone who doesn't believe there would be significant squawking about either scenario needs only look at history to see they're wrong. And in the case of the Big 12...the above scenario is why they will get pressure from member institutions, fans, and the other major conferences, or all three to expand and have a CCG.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    June 12, 2013 8:21 a.m.

    @swoop..."Frankly, Utah fans are being completely disingenuous if they're trying to claim that records and rankings don't matter."

    I've never said records and rankings don't matter. I'm just saying that head to head to me matters alot. It also matters alot to the players and coaches. The only people I've heard say it dosen't matter to be honest is Y fan's.

    "btw, the best team doesn't always win a playoff, but it is the fairest method of determining a champion."

    Exactly couldn't agree more it's the fairest way because the team earns it on the field head to head. Yes I understand upsets happen so head to head is not 100% perfect in saying who the best overall team is. However IMO this is the best barometer we have to say which team is better. To sit back and say rankings are full proof and teams don't get overrated is complete non-sense and you know it.

    "Can't wait to hear to squawking when the SEC gets two teams in the playoffs."

    What squawking? SEC is the best conference hands down.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2013 5:07 p.m.

    2B

    Major college football has never had a playoff, so until we have an 8- or 16-team playoff, rankings are all we have to determine which team is best. Rankings will still decide which teams are better.

    Even Utah fans judge how good a team is by how high they're ranked. If that wasn't the case, why do Utah fans beat their chests every time Utah beats a "ranked" team? How do you know that beating a ranked team is more significant than beating an unranked team?

    Do you really think a team not ranked in the Top 10 will have ANY chance of being selected to play in the four-team playoff starting in 2014?

    Frankly, Utah fans are being completely disingenuous if they're trying to claim that records and rankings don't matter.

    btw, the best team doesn't always win a playoff, but it is the fairest method of determining a champion. The four-team format won't last more than a couple of years. Can't wait to hear to squawking when the SEC gets two teams in the playoffs and the other four "bigs" are left to fight over the remaining two spots.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    June 11, 2013 3:22 p.m.

    @swoop..."Says who? I've never seen this rule written anywhere."

    "It's common sense that every fan not living on the hill understands. The team with the better record and ranking is the better team in that particular year regardless of who won the head-to-head."

    Swoop if this is true then why is there playoffs, bowl games, superbowls, etc.? If it's common sense to everybody but ute fans then there would be no need to play any of these games. At the end of each regular season just crown whatever team is ranked higher the champion.

    There is a very good reason why we have superbowls, playoff's, bowl games, etc. The truly better teams actually earn it on the field where it counts. They don't sit and make excuses for head to head losses. There is no better way to prove what team is better then playing the game. If that wasn't the case there is no reason to play the game at all. We can just assemble teams and have everybody rank which one is better then crown them champions...LOL

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2013 2:03 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    LOL Pacy-WACer, that's not what the article said at all.

    What it really said was BYU is one of only fifteen programs that have had Top 25 Dynasties from 1936 to present. That puts BYU in an elite group of programs that insignificant little programs like Utah can only dream of.

    On top of BYU's 1979 to 1985 Top 25 Dynasty, BYU has also been a perennial Top 25 team since 1977 (18 Top 25 finishes in 36 seasons - 50%). Once again, another significant accomplishment that only a handful of programs can match. USC(25) and UCLA(20) are the only programs in the west that have had more Top 25 finishes in the last 40 years than BYU(18). Utah's meager 6 is more of an embarrassment, than an accomplishment.

    btw, the Utes are 0-2 in their final two games against WAC teams and the sorry Utes only managed to win 2 championships in the 37 years they were in the WAC. Looking down your nose at the WAC is laughable for a program that was denied a bowl berth last season because they couldn't beat the ONLY WAC team on their schedule.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 11, 2013 12:23 p.m.

    Sports Authority:

    And lastly...

    "That's not at all what the article was saying."

    Nope. You got it wrong. That WAS what the article was saying. You WERE a dynasty, from '79-'85. You "are not" a dynasty anymore. So essentially, you were one the "awful lot" of Indy-WACers I was talking about who either didn't read, or didn't understand, the content of that article. Haha!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 11, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    Sports Authority:

    "What makes this little PACy-WACer think he knows what the majority of BYU fans understood about the article?"

    First of all, you've thus far failed in my prior challenge to justify aligning the Pac-12 with the WAC, so that pretty much closes the case that you're just hurt that I accurately defined and aligned YOUR teeny tiny irrelevant program with the WAC, and have been calling you and Indy-WACer for going on 3-yrs now. In short, case closed...you lost.

    Moving on...

    Second of all, nowhere did I say that a "majority" of your Indy-WACey fanbase misunderstood that article. I clearly stated that it was "an awful lot". You frantically and emotionally made that up. I wouldn't know what the "majority" of your fellow WAC-wannabes think, but I DO know what "an awful lot" think, since they're here spouting off, and I can read. So that's ANOTHER case you lost.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    June 11, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    @AZUTE1

    Question for U:

    In 2008, Boston College beat Notre Dame for the 6th time in a row, and the Fighting Irish currently have a .400 winning percentage against BC over the last 11 years.

    Out of those two, who is the better, more relevant football program?

    Utah has won 3 in a row over BYU. So? I got back from my mission in 2009 in time to watch BYU beat Utah for the third time in four years. BYU was "dominating" Utah at that point, but that's not what we heard from Utah fans.

    That's the great thing about rivalries. They can swing one way or another on a couple of plays and for a couple of years. U've gotten BYU the last three years, two in games handed to U on a silver platter...does this somehow make U relevant?

    Utah's small time, bro. BYU's a legacy, perennial top 25 program with a National Championship in its resume.

    U have 2 BCS wins in the last 9 years (a great accomplishment, but not legacy worthy) and 3 in a row over BYU.

    I'm still not sure which one is more important to Ute fans.

    Go Cougars!

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "furthermore, BYU fan wants badly to point to overall record, because BYU has played against a weaker strength-of-schedule, annually,..."

    LOL!

    BYU and Utah were in the same conferences from 1922 to 2010 and consequently have had nearly identical strengths of schedule for the last 80 years.

    RANKINGS take into account records AND SOS, so your whiny SOS excuse making is completely invalid when it comes to comparing rankings.

    Besides, BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams last season. Utah only played TWO.

    Four of BYU's five losses last season were to RANKED teams.
    Five of Utah's seven losses last season were to UNRANKED teams.

    If U had beaten all of the UNRANKED teams you played last season, U would have been bowling.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2013 11:41 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Says who? I've never seen this rule written anywhere."

    It's common sense that every fan not living on the hill understands. The team with the better record and ranking is the better team in that particular year regardless of who won the head-to-head.

    Texas A&M beat Alabama head-to-head last year, yet Alabama played in the bcs championship game and won the National Championship because Alabama not only had a better record, but more importantly, was ranked higher.

    As far as your weak 56-34-4 example, I give you 7 in a row, 11 of the last 12, 149-145; BYU OWNS U in basketball.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 11, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    Furthermore, byu fan wants badly to point to overall record, because byu has played against a weaker strength-of-schedule, annually, yet they can never beat UTAH and they never beat a good team, excepting solely usu at home, barely.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 11, 2013 11:27 a.m.

    @Swoop--

    You'd also have to bring-up UNLV beating byu twice in recent memory, including at home.

    Again, why does byu fan continue to evade and refuse to address the White Elephant in the room, namely--

    In the past 3 years, UTAH is 3-0 vs byu. In the past 5 years, UTAH is 4-1 vs byu. In the past 11 years, UTAH is 8-3 vs byu. Overall, UTAH owns byu, 56-34-4.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 11, 2013 11:23 a.m.

    Swoop
    Salt Lake City, UT

    "Because ULTIMATE debate clinched isn't head-to-head, it's overall record and ranking, which even crimson-glasses wearing Utah fans recognize EXCEPT when it comes to comparing BYU and Utah"

    Says who? I've never seen this rule written anywhere. We're 1-1 against CU in the last 2 years and have an overall record against UNLV of 14-2.

    Again, why does byu fan continue to evade this head-to-head utter and complete domination of UTAH over byu?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 11, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    @AZUTE1

    They don't care that they lose in football to Utah every year because they have a bigger stadium and they were *NC in 1984! 1984! 1984!

    Besides, they're totally into rugby and volleyball.

    Go Utes

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Why is BYU fan evades and refuses to address the following, the ULTIMATE debate-clincher--"

    Because ULTIMATE debate clinched isn't head-to-head, it's overall record and ranking, which even crimson-glasses wearing Utah fans recognize EXCEPT when it comes to comparing BYU and Utah.

    Was UNLV(2-10) BETTER than Utah(9-4) just because they beat the Utes 27-0?

    Was Colorado(3-10) BETTER than Utah(8-5) just because they beat the Utes 17-14?

    If you can honestly answer yes to each of the above without ANY qualifiers, then Utah can logically make the argument that Utah was better than BYU 5 of the last 8 years because Utah beat BYU.

    Otherwise, you have to accept the argument that BYU was BETTER than Utah in 5 of the last 8 years because the Cougars not only finished with a better record, but were also ranked higher, which negates your weak, whiny excuse-making SOS arguments.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 11, 2013 10:57 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs
    West Point , UT

    "Two for & AZUTE:

    Are you guys sure you want to bring Boise State into this discussion?"

    Nah, facing K. Moore and a veteran O and doing so without our starting QB is a far cry from facing a virtually brand-new BSU O. Furthermore, losing to BSU at home, 50-12, almost as bad as losing to UTAH at home, 54-10, is the only thing which is utterly epic and blatantly humiliating regarding BSU.

    byu can't beat UTAH/TCU or BSU, period, end-of-story.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 11, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Why is byu fan evades and refuses to address the following, the ULTIMATE debate-clincher--

    In the past 3 years, UTAH is 3-0 vs byu. In the past 5 years, UTAH is 4-1 vs byu. In the past 11 years, UTAH is 8-3 vs byu. Overall, UTAH owns byu, 56-34-4.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    Jealous U

    They'll never buy it; any record or ranking that doesn't support their crimson-colored bias is immediately rejected as invalid by the kids on the hill.

    < fingers in ears, eyes tightly shut, repeating "lalalala" >

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 11, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    Two for & AZUTE:
    Are you guys sure you want to bring Boise State into this discussion? BYU has lost twice AT Boise by a point. Utah has been embarrassed and destroyed by Boise AT home, and on a neutral field in a bowl game. If I'm a ute fan I wouldn't be bringing up BYUs comparison with the utes against Boise. Losses of 36-3 in SLC, 26-3 in Las Vegas...ouch.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    June 11, 2013 9:10 a.m.

    As usual our jealous little brothers fail to grasp the significance of overall records and rankings versus single game results.

    BYU has finished ahead of Utah in overall record and ranking in the 5 of the last 8 years.

    2005 unranked/#55 BYU(6-6) < unranked/#51 Utah(7-5)
    2006 #16/#15/#19 *BYU(11-2) > unranked/#54 Utah(8-5)
    2007 #14/#15/#17 *BYU(11-2) > unranked/#34 Utah(9-4)
    2008 #25/#21/#32 BYU(10-3) < #2/#4/#5 *Utah(13-0)
    2009 #12/#12/#15 BYU(11-2) > #18/#18/#24 Utah(10-3)
    2010 unranked/#45 BYU(7-6) < ur/#23/#26 Utah(10-3)
    2011 ur/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)
    2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) > unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)

    *conference champ
    > BYU better
    < Utah better

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    June 11, 2013 8:22 a.m.

    "UoU 1991

    Park City, UT

    Why are so many Utah fans defending Utah's abysmal first two years in the PAC 12?

    We haven't beaten a PAC 12 team with a winning record yet and, except for beating BYU, we don't have a single OOC win worth bragging about.

    If beating BYU is all we care about, we might as well be back in the MWC where at least we'd be competitive in something besides W-GYM."

    It's simple. It's the same handful who have had a falling out with BYU at one point in the past. They hate BYU far more than they love Utah.

    Regarding the Pac 12, I hope it works out. BYU and Utah are no longer rivals and I've had family attend Utah.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 11, 2013 7:31 a.m.

    @Snack FAN

    I clarified 1994 for you. Honestly, I have no idea what your point is.

    @SportsFan

    In the past 3 years, UTAH is 3-0 vs byu. In the past 5 years, UTAH is 4-1 vs byu. In the past 11 years, UTAH is 8-3 vs byu. Overall, UTAH owns byu, 56-34-4. I can't recall the last time byu beat TCU/BSU, if ever.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 11, 2013 2:05 a.m.

    @ SportsFan

    Since 2005, Utah is 5-3 against BYU, not 3-5. And if you want to mention lucky wins, wouldn't all three of BYU's win's in the past 8 years qualify as such? BYU is 0-3 against BSU, all-time. And since 2005 BYU is 2-5 against TCU (blowout losses in 2008, 2009, and 2010). If Utah is a middle of the pack team, what would that make BYU? Clearly the Cougs are not on the same level as Utah, TCU, and Boise. All three of these teams have a couple things in common: First is multiple BCS appearances/wins. Second is they usually beat BYU head-to-head.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 10, 2013 9:48 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    It doesn't matter what comment you were commenting about, the logic remains the same; it doesn't matter what conference a team is from, where you play them, or their storied past, a bad or mediocre team is still bad or mediocre.

    Playing of bunch of such teams over an extended period of time doesn't make them any better or the accomplishment of beating them any more significant just because you beat them in a meaningless bowl somewhere.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 10, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    Always fixated on the head-to-head with BYU aren't you.

    Since 2005 when TCU joined the MWC:

    MWC Championships
    TCU 3
    BYU 2
    BSU 1
    Utah 1

    Top 25 Finishes
    TCU 6
    BSU 6
    BYU 5
    Utah 3

    Versus BSU, the Utes are 0-4 since 1998, with blowout losses in 2006 and 2010
    Versus TCU, the Utes are 3-3 since 2005, with blowout losses in 2009 and 2010
    Versus BYU, the Utes are 3-5, with two lucky wins in the last three

    Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, however, if you'd stayed in the MWC with TCU, BSU and BYU, you'd be nothing but a middle of the pack team.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 7:12 p.m.

    Snack PAC
    Olympus Cove, Utah

    "While Utah barely slipped past Arizona in the Freedom Bowl 16-13, BYU dominated Oklahoma in the Copper Bowl 31-6."

    AZUTE1
    Mesa, AZ

    "You conveniently left-out the fact Arizona was ranked #15 when we beat them and the fact that OU was BARELY above .500 when byu played them. You attempted to make it seem as if UTAH/byu played 2 teams of equal-caliber in their respective bowl games, which clearly wasn't the case.

    Saying Arizona still finished ranked at #20 AFTER losing to UTAH merely further cements my point. On the other hand, OU finished precisely at .500, thus further pointing-out that UTAH clearly faced a significantly higher-caliber of opponent [Arizona] than did byu [Oklahoma]."

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 6:55 p.m.

    @phoenix

    2-Time BCS Bowl Game WINNERS....byu=ZERO BCS Bowl Games. Ouch! And The Sun Bowl is light-years ahead of any bowl game byu has played/will ever play in. Nice try.

    Furthermore, in the spirit of staying on topic, scroll-down and reference the original comment I was responding to, first.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 6:49 p.m.

    "The Utes would have been hopelessly outmatched if they'd stayed in the MWC with BYU, TCU and Boise State."

    LOL....Says the fan of the school, byu, which can't EVER beat UTAH/TCU/BSU....LOL

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    June 10, 2013 6:29 p.m.

    Why are so many Utah fans defending Utah's abysmal first two years in the PAC 12?

    We haven't beaten a PAC 12 team with a winning record yet and, except for beating BYU, we don't have a single OOC win worth bragging about.

    If beating BYU is all we care about, we might as well be back in the MWC where at least we'd be competitive in something besides W-GYM.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 10, 2013 6:17 p.m.

    AZUTE:
    "Missing from this is the fact that byu played against complete bottom-feeder schedules during this time-period".

    Wow, you're right. Funny how they missed that point when they mentioned Boise State and TCU also. It's truly embarrassing how whiney and frantic the ute trolls are, and how ridiculous they sound when they mock a program's accomplishments against the very schedule their beloved utes played against.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 10, 2013 5:07 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "OU finished precisely at .500, thus further pointing-out that Utah clearly faced a significantly higher-caliber of opponent [Arizona] than did BYU [Oklahoma]."

    Remember that little argument the next time U start beating your chest about Utah's bowl record.

    It's funny how Utah fans always left out little details like that when they were incessantly beating their chests about their 9-bowl winning streak that included an extremely mediocre 6-6 USC team that the Utes barely squeaked past 10-6.

    It's no wonder that only four of those nine Utah bowl winning teams were good enough to be ranked in the final poll. Yet Utah fans yammer on about Utah's "impressive" bowl record.

    Sorry, but, one mediocre team beating another mediocre doesn't make the winner less mediocre just because it happened in a bowl - see Sun Bowl 2011.

  • Tajemnica West Valley, Utah
    June 10, 2013 3:58 p.m.

    People need to quit rationalizing their opinions by making comparisons to things that cannot be proven by facts. Was Utah 2008 better than BYU 1984? More than likely. Is there any way to prove it? Absolutely not. People can try to compare SOS. It still doesn't make a difference as there is no way to prove the better team. Argue with facts. Utah has two BCS Bowl victories. BYU has none. BYU has a National Championship trophy. Utah's National Championship trophy case is empty. Deal with it.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    June 10, 2013 3:57 p.m.

    U25
    U forgot to click the "like" on your last post!

  • SportsCenter Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 10, 2013 3:35 p.m.

    navelvet

    "The WAC is dead, and was a weak conference while it was active."

    If the WAC was so "weak", why were the Utes only able to win TWO WAC championships during their entire 37 years in the conference?

    WAC teams during the majority of the period that BYU and Utah were members
    BYU
    Utah
    Colorado St
    New Mexico
    Wyoming
    Air Force
    San Diego St
    Hawaii
    UTEP

    MWC teams during the majority of the period that BYU and Utah were members
    BYU
    Utah
    Colorado St
    New Mexico
    Wyoming
    Air Force
    San Diego St
    UNLV
    TCU (joined in 2005; Utah only won ONE MWC championship after TCU joined the MWC)

    The Utes would have been hopelessly outmatched if they'd stayed in the MWC with BYU, TCU and Boise State.

    Luckily, the PAC invited U to be a conference bottom dweller so U can use SOS as a convenient excuse for never winning another conference championship.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 10, 2013 3:15 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "There sure seems to be an awful lot of Indy-WACers who either didn't actually "read" that Athlon article, or didn't actually "understand" it."

    What makes this little PACy-WACer think he knows what the majority of BYU fans understood about the article?

    "They were calling the Y a dynasty program "between 1979 and 1985". So essentially, the Y's dynasty ended after that '85 season. No more dynasty. Dynasty all gone."

    That's not at all what the article was saying. If you'd actually bothered reading and trying to understand the article, you would have understood that it was rating ALL dynasties from 1936 to present. Some teams, like Oklahoma, had multiple periods that Athlon considered Top 25 dynasties, some lasting more than a decade, some only lasting a few years.

    EVERY dynasty, EXCEPT Alabama, had an END Date before 2012, so according to your misunderstanding, Michigan's dynasty ended in 1948, Notre Dame's dynasty ended in 1973, and Georgia's dynasty ended in 1983.

    BYU had one such period.

    Utah had NONE! In fact, USC was the ONLY PAC 12 with a Top 25 dynasty.

    Utah's insignificant little 2004 to 2008 period didn't even rate a mention.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 2:38 p.m.

    Snack PAC--

    "ah, so records and rankings ARE more important than the names and labels, but only when Utah fans claim that they matter more. It's funny how Utah fans ignore that little detail when talking about Utah's wins against 'bcs' teams.

    btw, Arizona finished #20/#20; another example of the biased spin of the hill crowd, counting the opponent's ranking when the game was played, but counting Utah's ranking in the final poll."

    You conveniently left-out the fact Arizona was ranked #15 when we beat them and the fact that OU was BARELY above .500 when byu played them. You attempted to make it seem as if UTAH/byu played 2 teams of equal-caliber in their respective bowl games, which clearly wasn't the case.

    Saying Arizona still finished ranked at #20 AFTER losing to UTAH merely further cements my point. On the other hand, OU finished precisely at .500, thus further pointing-out that UTAH clearly faced a significantly higher-caliber of opponent [Arizona] than did byu [Oklahoma].

  • u25 West Jordan, UT
    June 10, 2013 2:25 p.m.

    Kind of odd, if you are only signing a dozen recruits this year, that you would take these 2 commitments this early. without seeing what better is out there. takes up a lot of your class. But on the other hand the offensive line is so bad maybe adding numbers willhelp.

  • u25 West Jordan, UT
    June 10, 2013 2:18 p.m.

    Remember the days when Byu recruited several 4 stars and a lot of high 3 stars. Now a mid level 3 star is about the ceiling. Those were the days.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 10, 2013 2:14 p.m.

    There sure seems to be an awful lot of Indy-WACers who either didn't actually "read" that Athlon article, or didn't actually "understand" it. Athlon isn't calling the Y a "dynasty program". They were calling the Y a dynasty program "between 1979 and 1985". So essentially, the Y's dynasty ended after that '85 season. No more dynasty. Dynasty all gone.

    Besides....it was a WAC dynasty. The WAC is dead, and was a weak conference while it was active. You guys gotta get a grip. Nobody outside of your bubble looks back on the cougars glory days and says to themselves, "Wow! The Y sure did clean up vs. the WAC. What a difficult conference that must have been to play in."

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 10, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    baddog:

    "I can't begin to count the number of no star athletes recruited by the Hawkeyes (and the walk-ons)from tiny high schools who just happen to turn out as finalists for some national award or another, end up All-American or are drafted by the pros and become starters"

    Yet as of right now, the Hawkeyes have 5 commitments: two 4-stars, and three 3-stars. So unless Iowa couldn't find any 2-star kids to embellish their current recruiting class, it looks like the Iowa coaching staff prefers the more heralded kids too.

  • couglifer South Jordan, UT
    June 10, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    @ AZUTE1
    Missing from this is the fact that byu played against complete bottom-feeder schedules during this time-period.

    Shall we take a look and see how your team faired against the same schedule? I didn’t think so. You play with the hand that is dealt and the system of the era says 1984 National Champions.

    Also Athlon Magazine is not a BYU publication if I remember correctly it is a national one.
    Also everyone complaining about BYU schedule if my memory serves me correctly most of Utah’s schedule was the same as BYU’s in 2008 and 2004 considering that they both played in the same conference.

    So by slamming BYU 1984 you are doing the same to your own team.

    Oh I am sorry trying to use logic with Ute fans is out of the questions I forgot

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    phantomblade
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    "Athlon Magazine
    College Football's Top 25 Greatest Dynasties of the AP Era (1936 to present)

    BYU Cougars (1979-85): 77-12(87%) - 6 Top 25 finishes, 7 conference championships
    LaVell Edward’s high-flying, revolutionary offense rolled through opponents until the pollsters finally awarded BYU with the 1984 national championship"

    Missing from this is the fact that byu played against complete bottom-feeder schedules during this time-period.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    "the rest of the country could care less what"

    How much less could they care? And you didn't answer my question....Post the evidence in "support" of your claim.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 10, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    Athlon Magazine
    College Football's Top 25 Greatest Dynasties of the AP Era (1936 to present)

    BYU Cougars (1979-85): 77-12(87%) - 6 Top 25 finishes, 7 conference championships
    LaVell Edward’s high-flying, revolutionary offense rolled through opponents until the pollsters finally awarded BYU with the 1984 national championship

    Best of the Rest:

    Boise State Broncos (2006-11): 73-6
    TCU Horned Frogs (2008-11): 47-5

    Sorry, no mention of Utah Utes

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    June 10, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    Utah and BYU. Both great schools with great people. What's not to like?

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 10, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    RE: AZUTE1

    "Please list respective SOS rankings, ranked-opponents, etc., for each and every one of these NCs. Just simply claiming it, without stating anything in support, is utterly meaningless."

    Don't need to. Simply google "consensus national champions ncaa football" and you should be able to find the same articles I did. Did the "disputed" national champions have higher SOS than BYU? Probably. So what? That doesn't change the FACT that teams from the years I mentioned status as national champs is disputed (by split polls among other reasons), while BYU was the CONSENSUS national champions in 1984, given that designation by ALL polls and national pundits.

    Now it is true that there is one group that doesn't accept that consensus national title, but believe me, the rest of the country could care less what fans from little brother Utah think. Your continual posts simply show why Utah continues to live in BYU's shadow.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 10, 2013 10:57 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Arizona was ranked #15 in the nation. OU finished the season 6-6. Not to mention, UTAH beat BYU, 34-31."

    ah, so records and rankings ARE more important than the names and labels, but only when Utah fans claim that they matter more. It's funny how Utah fans ignore that little detail when talking about Utah's wins against "bcs" teams.

    btw, Arizona finished #20/#20; another example of the biased spin of the hill crowd, counting the opponent's ranking when the game was played, but counting Utah's ranking in the final poll.

    pot meet kettle

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    June 10, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    LOL at the Ute fans who continue to come in hoards to BYU boards seeking validation

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 10:37 a.m.

    "While Utah barely slipped past Arizona in the Freedom Bowl 16-13, BYU dominated Oklahoma in the Copper Bowl 31-6."

    Arizona was ranked #15 in the nation. OU finished the season 6-6. Not to mention, UTAH beat byu, 34-31.

    Spin, Spin, Spin.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 10, 2013 10:34 a.m.

    These two could be just what we need to take us over the top.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 10, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    navelvet

    "for what it's worth, McBride took Utah to a Top-10 finish in '94 after beating 4 teams who finished ranked in the Final Polls."

    For what it's worth, Utah 1994 also lost to New Mexico(5-7) and failed to win the WAC championship.

    WAC champion Air Force(8-4) wasn't ranked, while both BYU and Utah finished in the Top 10, Utah #10/#8, BYU #18/#10.

    While Utah barely slipped past Arizona in the Freedom Bowl 16-13, BYU dominated Oklahoma in the Copper Bowl 31-6.

    After over 100 seasons of playing football, 1994 marked the FIRST time, Utah was ranked in the Final AP poll.

    1994 marked BYU's ELEVENTH ranking in the Final AP poll.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    "BYU was a true dynasty from 1979-1985"

    Playing against bottom-feeder schedules.

    "If you want to argue undeserving champions you've picked the wrong team. Instead look at 1990, 1991, 1993, 1997, 2003, 2007... none of those champs were clear-cut winners."

    Please list respective SOS rankings, ranked-opponents, etc., for each and every one of these NCs. Just simply claiming it, without stating anything in support, is utterly meaningless.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 10, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    So what did Utah 2004 do to deserve NC consideration?

    1999 unranked 9-3, beat 3 teams with winning records
    2000 unranked 4-7, lost to 4 teams with losing records
    2001 unranked 8-4, tied BYU for MWC championship
    2002 unranked 5-6, lost to 2 teams with losing records
    2003 #21/#21 10-2, MWC champ, lost to Texas A&M(4-8)
    2004 #4/#5 12-0, MWC champ, beat #25/ur Pittsburgh(8-4)

    Utah ended 2004 on a 16-game winning streak, with three MWC championships, two Top 25 finishes, and only one win over a barely-ranked opponent (#25/unranked Pittsburgh) in 6 years

    Utah 2004 PF 45.3, PA 19.5, PD 25.8

    Overall Record
    BYU 1979-1984 66-9(88%), 6 conference championships, 5 Top 12 finishes, 2 Top 7 finishes
    Utah 1999-2004 48-22(67%), 3 conference championships, 2 Top 25 finishes, 1 Top 5 finish

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 10, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    Naval Vet

    "There were only 98 D-1 teams in 1984. And your SOS ranked #96. And Utah thoroughly DOMINATED every opponent they faced."

    Ah, so now you're back to "thoroughly dominating" weak WAC (er MWC) teams. Now who's spinning?

    Jealous Utah fans simply can't live with the fact that BYU did far more to impress the pollsters in winning the 1984 National Championship, than Utah did in 2004.

    Let's compare:

    BYU
    1979 #13/#12 11-1, WAC champ, only loss to #19/#16 Indiana 37-38
    1980 #12/#12 12-1, WAC champ, beat the famed #20/#20 SMU Pony Express 46-45
    1981 #13/#11 11-2, WAC champ
    1982 unranked 8-4, WAC champ
    1983 #7/#7 11-1, WAC champ, beat #13/#15 Air Force and #17/#13 UCLA on the road
    1984 #1/#1 13-0, WAC champ, beat #24 Air Force on the road

    BYU finished 1984 on a 24-game winning, with their 6th straight WAC championship, their 5th Top 12 finish in 6 years, and back-to-back Top 7 finishes

    BYU 1984 PF 35.1, PA 14.1, PD 21.0

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 10, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    I'm not quite sure why so many frantic and emotional trolls continue to obsess over 1984. We all know the facts... BYU had a very poor strength of schedule in 1984 and beat no ranked teams.

    If that that was the whole story than the trolls would have a legitimate complaint. However, that isn't the whole story. BYU was a true dynasty from 1979-1985, finishing 4/5 seasons ranked in the top 15 prior to the 1984 season. They didn't need a high SOS in 1984 to prove they were legit, they had been doing that for several years. Which is why they concluded the 1984 season as the CONSENSUS national champions, something only about 3/4 of all national champions since the 1950s can claim. If you want to argue undeserving champions you've picked the wrong team. Instead look at 1990, 1991, 1993, 1997, 2003, 2007... none of those champs were clear-cut winners.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 10, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    @ Marked it Down

    LOL....Naval Vet beat me to it, but I must admit, it's utterly mind-boggling that anybody would dare attempt to compare 1984 byu to 2004 UTAH. Furthermore, your "comparison" begs the obvious question--Why don't you attempt to compare using 2008 UTAH, instead? You avoid it like the plague....Why?

    BTW, no matter how hard you try wish it true, AF was NOT ranked in 1984. I always find it comical to see what OU did to PITT in 1984 on the same, exact field merely 2 weeks later....LOL

    1984 byu was weak-sauce, no matter how one cuts it....Or, in your case, no matter how one SPINS it.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    June 10, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    "Chris B

    Salt Lake City, UT

    So they have exactly one bcs offer(Kansas) between the two of them?

    Lol.

    Sounds like they fit perfectly at byu."

    "BCS offer" really only means anything when it's a Texas, USC, Michigan, or Alabama you're talking about. Beating out Boise would be more impressive than the other 3/4ths which make up BCS conferences. Seriously, a player who receives an offer to Wake Forest received a "BCS offer." He might be able to walk on at Boise. This is just silly.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2013 8:30 a.m.

    RE: Jazzsmack: "If BYU ever gets into a major conference their recruiting will sky rocket"
    How do you figure that? WAC/MWC/Indy BYU recruits the same predominantly LDS players. Are there large, untapped pools of highly talented LDS recruits that BYU can't get yet because they're not in a major conference? If there are, and BYU gets tapped by a major, they will need a whole new coaching staff. Talented players requires coaches that can handle them. As they proved with Jake Heaps, they don't develop talent with Bronco at the helm.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 10, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    Marked it Down:

    "BYU's 1984 SOS was 82nd of 110"

    There were only 98 D-1 teams in 1984. And your SOS ranked #96. And Utah thoroughly DOMINATED every opponent they faced. The closest "scare" we got was from Air Force, who managed to bring the deficit to 14-pts by a late TD in the final seconds of the 4th quarter against our bench defense. The Y had 5 games -- that's nearly HALF their season -- that were close calls, within a single score. There's no comparison between our two seasons. 2004 Utes > 1984 cougs.

    MUCH greater.

    Utah 2004, had only had ONE other Top 25 finish in the last 10 years. And that one other Top-25 finish was the prior season wherein we went 10-2, and shut out Southern Miss in the Liberty Bowl, with our new head coach, Urban Meyer. Other 8 yrs was under Ron McBride, so....different team. And for what it's worth, McBride took Utah to a Top-10 finish in '94 after beating 4 teams who finished ranked in the Final Polls. No Y team had ever beaten more than 2. Ever.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 10, 2013 8:16 a.m.

    Marked it Down:

    "BYU 1984 beat FOUR regular season opponents with winning records...Utah 2004 only beat THREE regular season opponents with winning records."

    Terrible spin. The Y played 12 regular season teams in 1984, whereas the U played 11 in 2004. Our 12th game was Pitt in the Fiesta Bowl, and THEY had a winning record. In fact, if you added up all 13 of your opponents win total, they match exactly the number of win totals of our 12 opponents from '04. The difference is, your opponents' LOSS totals exceeded ours. Edge: Utah.

    But if you want to spin that the way you did, then I could just as easily point out...

    ...Utah beat a bowl team with a winning record. The Y beat a bowl team without one. Edge: Utah.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    June 10, 2013 1:00 a.m.

    Relax Howard.

    Not a single BYU fan has EVER argued that BYU 1984 was better than Alabama 2012.

    On the other hand, NOBODY was more deserving of being selected 1984 National Champion, than BYU.

    The rules weren't changed to prevent another BYU. The rules were changed to make it easier to create a #1 versus #2 matchup in the bowls to determine the NC.

    #2 Washington and #4 Nebraska were both invited to play BYU for the NC. If you want to blame at team for trying to back into a NC, blame those two, who tried unsuccessfully to win the championship without playing the #1-ranked team.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    June 10, 2013 12:51 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    BYU's 1984 SOS was 82nd of 110
    Utah's 2004 SOS was 70th of 120

    Yet Utah fans not only beat their chests about how "deserving" the Utes were of their #4/#5 rankings, but whined incessantly about not being given a chance to play for the national championship.

    The big difference, of course, is BYU 1984 had already established themselves as a legitimate national contender with FOUR Top 12 finishes in the preceding five years, including finishing #7 in 1983.

    On the other hand, Utah 2004, had only had ONE other Top 25 finish in the last 10 years, and that a modest #21 in 2003.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    June 10, 2013 12:38 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent."

    Though technically not ranked since the Final AP Poll of 1984 only included the Top 20, Air Force(8-4) did finish #24 in the Final AP Poll, which is one place HIGHER than Utah's only ranked opponent in 2004.

    Also, after reaching #1 in the polls, BYU played an extra game against Utah State(1-10).

    Without that extra game, which skewed the numbers and didn't in anyway contribute to BYU's #1 ranking, BYU's 1984 opponents had a better won/loss record than Utah's 2004 opponents:

    1984 BYU 54-69-3 (44%)
    2004 Utah 53-72 (42%)

    BYU 1984 beat FOUR regular season opponents with winning records:
    Tulsa(6-5), Hawaii(7-4), Air Force(8-4), and Utah(6-5-1)
    Air Force stomped Va Tech in their bowl game 23-7

    Utah 2004 only beat THREE regular season opponents with winning records:
    Texas A&M(7-5), New Mexico(7-5), and Wyoming(7-5)
    Texas A&M was CRUSHED by Tennessee in their bowl game 38-7

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 9, 2013 10:40 p.m.

    AZUTE1
    Mesa, AZ

    Another little factoid to give context the BYU's #1 ranking in 1984...

    In 2012 Alabama earned its national title by beating 10 BCS teams, 5 of which were ranked in the final polls... three in the top 10.

    BYU backed in to it's #1 ranking by leading up to 1984 with 10 wins against major college teams in seven years, and only one of those teams was ranked in the final polls... SMU at 20.

    There is a reason that the rules have been changed to prevent another BYU from backing-in to a NC.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 9, 2013 9:03 p.m.

    "It's crazy this utah fan obsession with records against the BCS, when they have nothing to write home about.

    The fact is half the BCS has losing records against BCS teams.

    And they all have been recruiting as a BCS teams for decades.

    If BYU ever gets into a major conference their recruiting will sky rocket leaving utah in the dust, and wins against major conference teams will follow.

    And U will still be U."

    HYSTERICAL!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 8:52 p.m.

    "If BYU ever gets into a major conference their recruiting will sky rocket leaving utah in the dust, and wins against major conference teams will follow."

    Prove it. Step 1: get into a power conference - LOL!

  • SLCWatch Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 8:46 p.m.

    Two country boys who no one commenting on these boards heard of 24 hours ago. Yet now they are "Utah" Celebrities. Vililified for being something not one of these commentators ever was, Good enough to be given a Division 1 offer to play football. They don't care about these petty little people with their petty little whiney comparisons of conference, BCS, Strength of Schedule or rivalry records. They want to play for a particular school, that school offered them a full ride and they accepted it. None of the comments on here would change their minds, hopes or happiness.

    They will come to do the best they can as every recruit in the country does no matter where they go. They will sweat, toil, learn, grow, and line up and play who ever is put in front of them. Some may become great and the majority (no matter what school) will be players that did the best they could.

    And the whiners and frustrated "rival" fans will never know them has humans who love and are loved. They will never know their hearts but they will judge them none the less. Because they themselves are wanting.

  • baddog Cedar Rapids, IA
    June 9, 2013 8:09 p.m.

    Y'all are quite entertaining. As a transplant to Iowa, I get to see closely Big 10 and Big 12 football coverage. I watch particularly Big 10 and Iowa.

    I can't begin to count the number of no star athletes recruited by the Hawkeyes (and the walk-ons)from tiny high schools who just happen to turn out as finalists for some national award or another, end up All-American or are drafted by the pros and become starters. They don't play too many cupcake teams.

    If y'all want to hang your hats on the number of stars some sports guy hangs on a kid and extrapolate that to wins and losses, go ahead. The Brooklyn Bridge mysteriously appeared over the Cedar River yesterday and is looking for a buyer. Y'all come to mind right off.

    Stars mean nothing. Desire, ability and coaching do.

    And for the writer who called Bronco arrogant, I can only suggest you have lived a sheltered life. One thing he is not, and that's arrogant. Don't mistake a man disliking the limelight with having arrogance, though personal dislike may have clouded reason.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 9, 2013 7:51 p.m.

    Bluto:

    Well, well, well! Looks like I'm living rent free in YOUR head! Haha!

    Rivals lists Chambers as a 3-star OT....which is typically one star too many for the Indy-WACers. Rivals lists him as having received only ONE other offer, so essentially, he had to choose between KU and the Y. That must be like choosing your own method of execution. Not appealing, but ya gotta choose something.

    This article suggests he's getting some good looks from teams in the SEC, Big 12, and BigTen. That must explain why Rivals described Chambers' commitment as a "Soft Verbal".

    Herring hadn't been rated yet, but Rivals lists him as having received no other D-1 offers. So that sounds about right. He should fit RIGHT in just fine down there in WACistan.

  • Levin Hightstown, NJ
    June 9, 2013 7:44 p.m.

    Why Utah in the Pac 12 and not BYU? That's easy. Same reason mighty Rutgers and Maryland are headed for the Big 10. A footprint in the TV market, an excuse to get the Pac-12 network on lower cable tiers in more areas. And a lot less controversy than picking BYU. It was a safe Plan B for Larry Scott's vision to get more eyeballs on USC-Oregon in growing population centers. This isn't that hard.

  • agb Layton, UT
    June 9, 2013 7:39 p.m.

    We definitely need help at O-line. Welcome to both young men.

    Sooner Ute:

    Is BYUs national exposure the reason you comment on the vast majority of BYU articles or would you be commenting anyway?

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    June 9, 2013 6:49 p.m.

    With all the Utah comments on BYU articles, it's clear that when a Utah fan says he's moved on, it means he's moved on to the next BYU article.

  • Jazzsmack Holladay, UT
    June 9, 2013 6:25 p.m.

    It's crazy this utah fan obsession with records against the BCS, when they have nothing to write home about.

    The fact is half the BCS has losing records against BCS teams.

    And they all have been recruiting as a BCS teams for decades.

    If BYU ever gets into a major conference their recruiting will sky rocket leaving utah in the dust, and wins against major conference teams will follow.

    And U will still be U.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    @MacNasty

    re: my comment 8:51 p.m. June 8, 2013

    You'll see me supporting the Utes under many of their articles, and I'll be there to call you out when I see you trolling...little brother.

    I feel just fine. Yourself.

    Go Utes.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 9, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    How quick are BYU fans to forget that in a Ute fan's eyes, once an athlete has committed to BYU, all previous interest and/or offers from BCS schools becomes imaginary.

    I know it is confusing to BYU fans who see reality and things as they really are to see how Ute fans could come up with some ridiculous comments. The key is to understand the way the BYU-hater Ute fan's mind works: in no way can BYU possibly be better than Utah. Once you understand that concept, you begin to understand why they say the things they do.

    It's still really funny, though.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 9, 2013 5:08 p.m.

    So how did BYU end up #1? Well, for one thing, BYU was greatly aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20 and you see only one team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie. Everyone else had at least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose Bowl bid because Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference champion (though they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team, Florida, was hit with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one wanted to reward a "cheater." So the timing was right.

    Of course, in 2007 a 2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team that looked a lot like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in 1984 was a zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing. In any case, it had never happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have been quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and since.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 9, 2013 5:07 p.m.

    Brigham Young

    Texas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at: they finished #1.

    Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma came very close in 1956).

    BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3, placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools.

    And yet their performance was as weak as their schedule.

    They won five games by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a 24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion."

    How bad was Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15 against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    June 9, 2013 4:53 p.m.

    Re: ekute @ 3:56 pm

    No claims little brother, just facts. The awards, the NC, the dynasty were handed out by NATIONAL SPORTS persons.

    Once again ekute, give a comparison list of awards, accomplishments, conferences championships, etc. that Bluto prepared.

    Its time to walk the walk ekute. Put or...., well we know the rest.

    Have a great day! Try supporting the Utes on their articles. You will probably feel better.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 9, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    "The difference BYU printed Quest t-shirts and celebrated at Provo Airport in September for what Utah did TWICE."

    Upon beating perennially-overrated OU, which hovered around .500 all season long and finished the season UNRANKED.

    Other than BARELY beating usu AT HOME, does byu EVER beat a good team, EVER?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2013 3:56 p.m.

    Would byu be the superior program they claim to be if they were in a major conference?

    Just wondering.

    Go Utes.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2013 3:53 p.m.

    Why hasn't a major conference called byu.

    Just wondering.

    Go Utes.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 9, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    @E4Evry1

    It doesn't surprise me that Utah is struggling in the Pac 10. They did the same thing in the MWC. It seemed they were either mediocre (usually the case), or very very good (twice).

    -----------

    It doesn't surprise me BYU fans can't "research".

    We won as many MWC titles as BYU 4 and had ONE less win.

    The difference BYU printed Quest t-shirts and celebrated at Provo Airport in September for what Utah did TWICE.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 3:12 p.m.

    Congratulations to these two young men. They will be a great asset to BYU's offensive line for years to come. Also, good luck on your missions!

    E4Evry1

    "You know, the funny thing is that Utah fans do keep forgetting that Utah was chosen over BYU for reasons other than athletics." No, we haven't forgotten. We are very much aware of the high standards of the Pac-10. Those standards transcend sports and there are precious few institutions that can meet that high bar.

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    June 9, 2013 12:47 p.m.

    @ Macnasty,

    In your last post to ekute, you posted the following challenge,,,

    "OK, match Bluto's list (see below) to show everyone you walk the walk. Finally, it is hypocritical to mention BYU fans not commenting about the article when you yourself do not as well."

    Unanimous National Championship
    23 Conference Championships
    Heisman
    Outland
    Maxwell
    O'Brian
    Baugh
    Walker...Trophies

    It's obvious that's an impossibility if the Utes had not won any of those. But my question is why? Why haven't they if they had actually won more games in head to head competition throughout the years between the two programs? It's odd for Ute fans to constantly claim superiority over BYU and yet have none of those achievements to show for it. Just wondering!!!

  • E4Evry1 Cedar Hills, UT
    June 9, 2013 12:03 p.m.

    It doesn't surprise me that Utah is struggling in the Pac 10. They did the same thing in the MWC. It seemed they were either mediocre (usually the case), or very very good (twice). I still think they will have up years in the Pac 10, because that happened in the MWC. Don't forget that the MWC was pounding the Pac 10 in the years leading up to the changes in the conference. The pac 10 just hasn't been that great the last 10 years. They always have a couple good teams, but the rest are weak.

    You know, the funny thing is that Utah fans do keep forgetting that Utah was chosen over BYU for reasons other than athletics. It was clear that BYU had a much better athletic program than Utah. Utah had those two BCS game wins, (even though Pitt wasn't BCS worthy)and I am sure that helped.

    Utah fans forget that BYU dominated the MWC with 120 championships. Utah came in 2nd place with just 49 championships. The choice was obviously not about Athletic Strength.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2013 11:56 a.m.

    @MacNasty

    Read the article and *all* of the comments, then rethink your last comment.

    Go Utes.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 9, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    @4601

    Get real, Utah offers all of them and more.

    LDS lifestyle? You can get that at Utah and many other schools in the state.

    Go Utes.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    June 9, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    Its fun seeing all the comments from the Ute wannabes. BYU's trophy case is full. Theirs has a couple of trophies an a whole lot of empty, dust filled space.

    Re: ekute

    The last two year prove the Utes are nothing more an a lower mid-level program that was taken by the PAC as a place holder. Talks cheap and that is all you have.

    OK, match Bluto's list (see below) to show everyone you walk the walk. Finally, it is hypocritical to mention BYU fans not commenting about the article when you yourself do not as well.

    Unanimous National Championship
    23 Conference Championships
    Heisman
    Outland
    Maxwell
    O'Brian
    Baugh
    Walker...Trophies

    All you got is coming in twice as a bride's maid. Boring.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 11:01 a.m.

    BYU football landed two LDS recruits? That "national exposure" is starting to pay off.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    These guys want a superior education, play in an environment of high standards and for a team with a great schedule. That's something no other Utah school offers. Good luck guys. If someone challenges you, ask how many stars Eric Weddle or Dennis Pitta had.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 9, 2013 8:37 a.m.

    Congrats to these fine young men for...

    1) being scholastically talented enough to meet BYU academic standards
    2) years of hard work and the sports talent to be considered
    3) living a life that would embrace high standards of character and conduct...
    4) wanting to be in a city that has mass-transit.

    Ooops, sorry about #4, that's a Ute recruiting bullet point. Disregard. LOL

  • Cougar Claws Lindon, UT
    June 9, 2013 2:50 a.m.

    Re: ekute

    Oh I didn't have to check. I already knew! lol. If BYU article and only one comment is there, it's at least 50 percent odds that it's Chris B's.

    It's really just funny if anything. I guess everyone needs a hobby.

  • canadiancougar624 Provo, UT
    June 9, 2013 1:29 a.m.

    Hey Chris B,

    How many BCS offers do you have?

    LOL

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2013 11:37 p.m.

    It's absolutely ridiculous how BYU-obsessed the jealous kids on the hill have become. Their basketball team is a train wreck and their football team has been in steady decline since 2008. Instead of being able to crow about their great successes in the PAC, all we hear is incessant whining about how difficult their marginally tougher schedule is.

    What's even more galling to the hill crowd is their big brother continues to out performance them across the board - in football, basketball, baseball, track & field, volleyball, rugby, the list goes on and on.

    For the 20th straight year BYU will finish higher than Utah by 20 to 40 places in the Director's Cup and the Utes are quickly running out of excuses why their supposedly superior PAC 12 programs are, in reality, so inferior.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 8, 2013 10:54 p.m.

    ekute:
    "a bowl game? lol".
    Yeah, I can see how that might be confusing to a Utah fan. Lol

    "rugby? volleyball? *Yawn*"
    Spoken like someone who has pinned all their hopes and dreams on their football program which is struggling to be .500...yeah I'd be yawning too.

    "top 100? wcc? #5? looking to be drafted? lol".
    Yes top 100 basketball players who were part of a top 15 national recruiting class. I know this is unfamiliar for Utah basketball so I'll cut you some slack for not understanding that. WCC- West Coast Conference...you know the league that has had more sweet 16 appearances and number one seeds in basketball than the mighty conference of champions since BYU joined. #5- the spot in the draft where Ziggy Ansah was taken...higher than any Utah has had since Alex Smith...I mean that's what you were asking right?...what BYU has done since Alex Smith? Yes Brandon Davies is "looking to be drafted" into the NBA, a position no ute basketball player has found themselves in since Rick Majerus. And lets not forget our top 75 MLB draft pick. Hope that cleared things up for you..."lol".

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    June 8, 2013 10:06 p.m.

    I was wondering that same thing about were he was from or his relationship to Eli. I think Eli just had daughters when he graduated so wouldn't be his son. Herring is big football family though.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 8, 2013 9:44 p.m.

    @Wiscougarfan

    a bowl game? lol.

    rugby? volleyball? *Yawn*

    top 100? wcc? #5? looking to be drafted? lol.

    Go Utes.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    June 8, 2013 9:05 p.m.

    RE: ekute

    "What has byu done since Alex was the first pick in the NFL draft, The Utes won 2 BCS bowls, was invited to join a major conference, owned the cougars 8 out of 11 and 13 out of 20?"

    I'll take the bait on that one. The answer is play in a bowl game. "Then" (the consummate total of all the things you listed) began last fall after the utes beat the cougs in a very close game.

    However, if you were talking about BYU sports more broadly I would note that they won the national championship in rugby, were runner's up in volleyball, completed an amazing basketball recruiting class that included three ESPN top 100 players, won the Commissioners Cup for being the most successful athletic program in the WCC, had a football player taken as the #5 pick in the NFL draft, another taken in the third round of the MLB draft, and another was MVP of the Portsmouth invitational and now looking to be drafted in the NBA.

    What has Utah done since then?

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 8, 2013 8:55 p.m.

    Lol, ok I was going to say more...don't need to now. Thanks Bluto, you covered it nicely. But you forgot to include AZUTE on your rent free list. Balan: they will never move on. They care as much about BYU as they do about Utah and their incessant commentating on all things BYU is proof they are harboring and will continue to harbor this maladaptive obsession with their superior brother.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 8, 2013 8:51 p.m.

    And again they go back to polishing there 25+ year old trophies.

    What has byu done since Alex was the first pick in the NFL draft, The Utes won 2 BCS bowls, was invited to join a major conference, owned the cougars 8 out of 11 and 13 out of 20?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    June 8, 2013 8:29 p.m.

    @Howie

    "BYU hasn't had an All-American for over 10 years...."????

    Really?
    How uneducated can you be?

    Among many All-Americans in the last twelve years, Dennis Pitta was a
    "Consensus All-American" just a few years ago.

    KVN and Hoffman are already Pre-Season All-Americans.
    And would you like to discuss Ziggy again?

    Pitta is BYU's 16th Consensus All-American to Utah's 5.
    He not only started, but is a rising star, for the Super Bowl Champion Ravens.
    Stop embarrassing yourself and all Ute fans.

    BYU...living rent free in Chris B...aka Howard S....aka Naval Vet's..... brain.

    Unanimous National Championship
    23 Conference Championships
    Heisman
    Outland
    Maxwell
    O'Brian
    Baugh
    Walker...Trophies

    College Hall of Famers
    Super Bowl and NFL MVP's

    Things one will never see at the University of Utah....
    And are already proudly on display at BYU.

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    June 8, 2013 8:11 p.m.

    Leave Chris B alone. The popularity of BYU is because of all the hits and comments made by everyone in here. Chris B and all other Ute commenters commenting and reading exclusive BYU articles is supporting BYU. We (BYU fans) appreciate the support, keep them coming. Please join in all Ute fans who want to comment and support BYU. Thank you.

  • Balan South Jordan, Utah
    June 8, 2013 7:54 p.m.

    Pretty "insecure" Utes seem very concerned about BYU's recruits. Didn't these guys "move on" a couple of years ago? Truly, I wish they would . . .

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 8, 2013 7:41 p.m.

    WOW....This has me shaking in my boots! Beat-out Mighty KU for one and Mighty NOBODY for the other!

    As neither one is ranked, it begs the following question--

    Where in the world did all of those 2-Star recruits byu's relentlessly pursuing go to? Anybody?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    June 8, 2013 6:43 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    Yeah... probably all American.

    And yeah... Missouri and Nebraska's offers are on the way. Just like that invitation to the BIG 12... it's on the way.

    Oh, and as for all Americans...BYU hasn't had an all American for over 10 years and when they did have all Americans it was because they put up gaudy numbers against WACish/MWCish competition.

    When BYU plays BCS level competition they have a losing record (that means "loosing record" for my Cougar readers).

    btw...

  • Louisiana Cougar Pineville, LA
    June 8, 2013 6:33 p.m.

    Any chance Herring is related to Eli?

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 8, 2013 6:21 p.m.

    Austin Chambers is a solid 3 star who will get offers from at least Missouri and Nebraska before it's all said and done, but yeah...he's not that good, just a typical 3 star BYU player who will probably be an all American (where's the Utah all Americans...I mean they're so superior to our 3 star KVN and 2 star Cody Hoffman...pffffft).

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 8, 2013 5:35 p.m.

    So byu got a couple of run of the mill prospects. I'm stoked!

    byu "fans'" obsession with Chris is truly fascinating, they check to see if he's commented than comment on him and say nothing about the article. lol.

    Go Utes.

  • Pipes Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2013 5:27 p.m.

    Chris B.
    How does it feel to be so consumed by hatred?
    Oh well, 2 great recruits for BYU. The future is looking bright. No wonder Utah is afraid to play them in the future.

  • Cougar Claws Lindon, UT
    June 8, 2013 5:04 p.m.

    You know, when I saw that there was a total number of one comment on this article, I thought to myself "gee I wonder who it could possibly be, I think I have a guess."

    Sure enough, it was Chris B.

    Your obsession with BYU is truly fascinating. I think Chris B. might read more about BYU than I do, and I'm a fan!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2013 4:28 p.m.

    So they have exactly one bcs offer(Kansas) between the two of them?

    Lol.

    Sounds like they fit perfectly at byu.