So they have exactly one bcs offer(Kansas) between the two of them?Lol. Sounds like they fit perfectly at byu.
You know, when I saw that there was a total number of one comment on this
article, I thought to myself "gee I wonder who it could possibly be, I think
I have a guess." Sure enough, it was Chris B.Your
obsession with BYU is truly fascinating. I think Chris B. might read more about
BYU than I do, and I'm a fan!
Chris B.How does it feel to be so consumed by hatred?Oh well, 2
great recruits for BYU. The future is looking bright. No wonder Utah is afraid
to play them in the future.
So byu got a couple of run of the mill prospects. I'm stoked!byu "fans'" obsession with Chris is truly fascinating, they check
to see if he's commented than comment on him and say nothing about the
article. lol.Go Utes.
Austin Chambers is a solid 3 star who will get offers from at least Missouri and
Nebraska before it's all said and done, but yeah...he's not that good,
just a typical 3 star BYU player who will probably be an all American
(where's the Utah all Americans...I mean they're so superior to our 3
star KVN and 2 star Cody Hoffman...pffffft).
Any chance Herring is related to Eli?
@CougsndawgsYeah... probably all American.And yeah...
Missouri and Nebraska's offers are on the way. Just like that invitation
to the BIG 12... it's on the way.Oh, and as for all
Americans...BYU hasn't had an all American for over 10 years and when they
did have all Americans it was because they put up gaudy numbers against
WACish/MWCish competition.When BYU plays BCS level competition they
have a losing record (that means "loosing record" for my Cougar
WOW....This has me shaking in my boots! Beat-out Mighty KU for one and Mighty
NOBODY for the other!As neither one is ranked, it begs the following
question--Where in the world did all of those 2-Star recruits
byu's relentlessly pursuing go to? Anybody?
Pretty "insecure" Utes seem very concerned about BYU's recruits.
Didn't these guys "move on" a couple of years ago? Truly, I wish
they would . . .
Leave Chris B alone. The popularity of BYU is because of all the hits and
comments made by everyone in here. Chris B and all other Ute commenters
commenting and reading exclusive BYU articles is supporting BYU. We (BYU fans)
appreciate the support, keep them coming. Please join in all Ute fans who want
to comment and support BYU. Thank you.
@Howie"BYU hasn't had an All-American for over 10
years...."????Really?How uneducated can you be?Among many All-Americans in the last twelve years, Dennis Pitta was a "Consensus All-American" just a few years ago.KVN and
Hoffman are already Pre-Season All-Americans.And would you like to discuss
Ziggy again?Pitta is BYU's 16th Consensus All-American to
Utah's 5.He not only started, but is a rising star, for the Super
Bowl Champion Ravens.Stop embarrassing yourself and all Ute fans.BYU...living rent free in Chris B...aka Howard S....aka Naval Vet's.....
brain.Unanimous National Championship23 Conference
ChampionshipsHeismanOutlandMaxwellO'BrianBaughWalker...TrophiesCollege Hall of FamersSuper Bowl
and NFL MVP'sThings one will never see at the University of
Utah....And are already proudly on display at BYU.
And again they go back to polishing there 25+ year old trophies.What
has byu done since Alex was the first pick in the NFL draft, The Utes won 2 BCS
bowls, was invited to join a major conference, owned the cougars 8 out of 11 and
13 out of 20?
Lol, ok I was going to say more...don't need to now. Thanks Bluto, you
covered it nicely. But you forgot to include AZUTE on your rent free list.
Balan: they will never move on. They care as much about BYU as they do about
Utah and their incessant commentating on all things BYU is proof they are
harboring and will continue to harbor this maladaptive obsession with their
RE: ekute"What has byu done since Alex was the first pick in the
NFL draft, The Utes won 2 BCS bowls, was invited to join a major conference,
owned the cougars 8 out of 11 and 13 out of 20?"I'll take
the bait on that one. The answer is play in a bowl game. "Then" (the
consummate total of all the things you listed) began last fall after the utes
beat the cougs in a very close game. However, if you were talking
about BYU sports more broadly I would note that they won the national
championship in rugby, were runner's up in volleyball, completed an amazing
basketball recruiting class that included three ESPN top 100 players, won the
Commissioners Cup for being the most successful athletic program in the WCC, had
a football player taken as the #5 pick in the NFL draft, another taken in the
third round of the MLB draft, and another was MVP of the Portsmouth invitational
and now looking to be drafted in the NBA. What has Utah done since
@Wiscougarfana bowl game? lol.rugby? volleyball?
*Yawn*top 100? wcc? #5? looking to be drafted? lol.Go
I was wondering that same thing about were he was from or his relationship to
Eli. I think Eli just had daughters when he graduated so wouldn't be his
son. Herring is big football family though.
ekute:"a bowl game? lol".Yeah, I can see how that might be
confusing to a Utah fan. Lol"rugby? volleyball? *Yawn*"Spoken like someone who has pinned all their hopes and dreams on their
football program which is struggling to be .500...yeah I'd be yawning
too."top 100? wcc? #5? looking to be drafted? lol".Yes
top 100 basketball players who were part of a top 15 national recruiting class.
I know this is unfamiliar for Utah basketball so I'll cut you some slack
for not understanding that. WCC- West Coast Conference...you know the league
that has had more sweet 16 appearances and number one seeds in basketball than
the mighty conference of champions since BYU joined. #5- the spot in the draft
where Ziggy Ansah was taken...higher than any Utah has had since Alex Smith...I
mean that's what you were asking right?...what BYU has done since Alex
Smith? Yes Brandon Davies is "looking to be drafted" into the NBA, a
position no ute basketball player has found themselves in since Rick Majerus.
And lets not forget our top 75 MLB draft pick. Hope that cleared things up for
It's absolutely ridiculous how BYU-obsessed the jealous kids on the hill
have become. Their basketball team is a train wreck and their football team has
been in steady decline since 2008. Instead of being able to crow about their
great successes in the PAC, all we hear is incessant whining about how difficult
their marginally tougher schedule is.What's even more galling
to the hill crowd is their big brother continues to out performance them across
the board - in football, basketball, baseball, track & field, volleyball,
rugby, the list goes on and on.For the 20th straight year BYU will
finish higher than Utah by 20 to 40 places in the Director's Cup and the
Utes are quickly running out of excuses why their supposedly superior PAC 12
programs are, in reality, so inferior.
Hey Chris B,How many BCS offers do you have?LOL
Re: ekuteOh I didn't have to check. I already knew! lol. If BYU
article and only one comment is there, it's at least 50 percent odds that
it's Chris B's. It's really just funny if anything. I
guess everyone needs a hobby.
Congrats to these fine young men for...1) being scholastically
talented enough to meet BYU academic standards2) years of hard work and
the sports talent to be considered3) living a life that would embrace high
standards of character and conduct...4) wanting to be in a city that has
mass-transit. Ooops, sorry about #4, that's a Ute recruiting
bullet point. Disregard. LOL
These guys want a superior education, play in an environment of high standards
and for a team with a great schedule. That's something no other Utah school
offers. Good luck guys. If someone challenges you, ask how many stars Eric
Weddle or Dennis Pitta had.
BYU football landed two LDS recruits? That "national exposure" is
starting to pay off.
Its fun seeing all the comments from the Ute wannabes. BYU's trophy case
is full. Theirs has a couple of trophies an a whole lot of empty, dust filled
space.Re: ekuteThe last two year prove the Utes are
nothing more an a lower mid-level program that was taken by the PAC as a place
holder. Talks cheap and that is all you have.OK, match Bluto's
list (see below) to show everyone you walk the walk. Finally, it is hypocritical
to mention BYU fans not commenting about the article when you yourself do not as
well.Unanimous National Championship23 Conference
ChampionshipsHeismanOutlandMaxwellO'BrianBaughWalker...TrophiesAll you got is coming in twice as a
bride's maid. Boring.
@4601Get real, Utah offers all of them and more.LDS
lifestyle? You can get that at Utah and many other schools in the state.Go Utes.
@MacNastyRead the article and *all* of the comments, then rethink
your last comment.Go Utes.
It doesn't surprise me that Utah is struggling in the Pac 10. They did the
same thing in the MWC. It seemed they were either mediocre (usually the case),
or very very good (twice). I still think they will have up years in the Pac 10,
because that happened in the MWC. Don't forget that the MWC was pounding
the Pac 10 in the years leading up to the changes in the conference. The pac 10
just hasn't been that great the last 10 years. They always have a couple
good teams, but the rest are weak. You know, the funny thing is that
Utah fans do keep forgetting that Utah was chosen over BYU for reasons other
than athletics. It was clear that BYU had a much better athletic program than
Utah. Utah had those two BCS game wins, (even though Pitt wasn't BCS
worthy)and I am sure that helped.Utah fans forget that BYU dominated
the MWC with 120 championships. Utah came in 2nd place with just 49
championships. The choice was obviously not about Athletic Strength.
@ Macnasty, In your last post to ekute, you posted the following
challenge,,,"OK, match Bluto's list (see below) to show
everyone you walk the walk. Finally, it is hypocritical to mention BYU fans not
commenting about the article when you yourself do not as well."Unanimous National Championship23 Conference ChampionshipsHeismanOutlandMaxwellO'BrianBaughWalker...TrophiesIt's obvious that's an impossibility if
the Utes had not won any of those. But my question is why? Why haven't
they if they had actually won more games in head to head competition throughout
the years between the two programs? It's odd for Ute fans to constantly
claim superiority over BYU and yet have none of those achievements to show for
it. Just wondering!!!
Congratulations to these two young men. They will be a great asset to
BYU's offensive line for years to come. Also, good luck on your
missions!E4Evry1"You know, the funny thing is that
Utah fans do keep forgetting that Utah was chosen over BYU for reasons other
than athletics." No, we haven't forgotten. We are very much aware of
the high standards of the Pac-10. Those standards transcend sports and there
are precious few institutions that can meet that high bar.
@E4Evry1It doesn't surprise me that Utah is struggling in the
Pac 10. They did the same thing in the MWC. It seemed they were either mediocre
(usually the case), or very very good (twice).-----------It doesn't surprise me BYU fans can't "research".We won as many MWC titles as BYU 4 and had ONE less win. The
difference BYU printed Quest t-shirts and celebrated at Provo Airport in
September for what Utah did TWICE.
Why hasn't a major conference called byu.Just wondering.Go Utes.
Would byu be the superior program they claim to be if they were in a major
conference?Just wondering.Go Utes.
"The difference BYU printed Quest t-shirts and celebrated at Provo Airport
in September for what Utah did TWICE."Upon beating
perennially-overrated OU, which hovered around .500 all season long and finished
the season UNRANKED.Other than BARELY beating usu AT HOME, does byu
EVER beat a good team, EVER?
Re: ekute @ 3:56 pmNo claims little brother, just facts. The
awards, the NC, the dynasty were handed out by NATIONAL SPORTS persons.Once again ekute, give a comparison list of awards, accomplishments,
conferences championships, etc. that Bluto prepared.Its time to walk
the walk ekute. Put or...., well we know the rest.Have a great day!
Try supporting the Utes on their articles. You will probably feel better.
Brigham YoungTexas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been
tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none
of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at:
they finished #1.Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those
other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The
only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma
came very close in 1956).BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3,
placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools.And yet
their performance was as weak as their schedule.They won five games
by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a
24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl
opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion."How
bad was Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid
12-15 against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference
in the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.
So how did BYU end up #1? Well, for one thing, BYU was greatly aided by the
weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20 and you see only one
team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie. Everyone else had at
least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose Bowl bid because
Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference champion (though
they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team, Florida, was hit
with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one wanted to reward a
"cheater." So the timing was right.Of course, in 2007 a
2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team that looked a lot
like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in 1984 was a
zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing. In any case, it had never
happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have been
quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and
How quick are BYU fans to forget that in a Ute fan's eyes, once an athlete
has committed to BYU, all previous interest and/or offers from BCS schools
becomes imaginary.I know it is confusing to BYU fans who see reality
and things as they really are to see how Ute fans could come up with some
ridiculous comments. The key is to understand the way the BYU-hater Ute
fan's mind works: in no way can BYU possibly be better than Utah. Once you
understand that concept, you begin to understand why they say the things they
do.It's still really funny, though.
@MacNastyre: my comment 8:51 p.m. June 8, 2013You'll see me supporting the Utes under many of their articles, and
I'll be there to call you out when I see you trolling...little brother.I feel just fine. Yourself.Go Utes.
It's crazy this utah fan obsession with records against the BCS, when they
have nothing to write home about.The fact is half the BCS has losing
records against BCS teams.And they all have been recruiting as a BCS
teams for decades.If BYU ever gets into a major conference their
recruiting will sky rocket leaving utah in the dust, and wins against major
conference teams will follow.And U will still be U.
With all the Utah comments on BYU articles, it's clear that when a Utah fan
says he's moved on, it means he's moved on to the next BYU article.
We definitely need help at O-line. Welcome to both young men.Sooner
Ute:Is BYUs national exposure the reason you comment on the vast
majority of BYU articles or would you be commenting anyway?
Why Utah in the Pac 12 and not BYU? That's easy. Same reason mighty
Rutgers and Maryland are headed for the Big 10. A footprint in the TV market,
an excuse to get the Pac-12 network on lower cable tiers in more areas. And a
lot less controversy than picking BYU. It was a safe Plan B for Larry
Scott's vision to get more eyeballs on USC-Oregon in growing population
centers. This isn't that hard.
Bluto:Well, well, well! Looks like I'm living rent free in
YOUR head! Haha!Rivals lists Chambers as a 3-star OT....which is
typically one star too many for the Indy-WACers. Rivals lists him as having
received only ONE other offer, so essentially, he had to choose between KU and
the Y. That must be like choosing your own method of execution. Not appealing,
but ya gotta choose something.This article suggests he's
getting some good looks from teams in the SEC, Big 12, and BigTen. That must
explain why Rivals described Chambers' commitment as a "Soft
Verbal".Herring hadn't been rated yet, but Rivals lists him
as having received no other D-1 offers. So that sounds about right. He should
fit RIGHT in just fine down there in WACistan.
Y'all are quite entertaining. As a transplant to Iowa, I get to see closely
Big 10 and Big 12 football coverage. I watch particularly Big 10 and Iowa.I can't begin to count the number of no star athletes recruited by
the Hawkeyes (and the walk-ons)from tiny high schools who just happen to turn
out as finalists for some national award or another, end up All-American or are
drafted by the pros and become starters. They don't play too many cupcake
teams.If y'all want to hang your hats on the number of stars
some sports guy hangs on a kid and extrapolate that to wins and losses, go
ahead. The Brooklyn Bridge mysteriously appeared over the Cedar River yesterday
and is looking for a buyer. Y'all come to mind right off.Stars
mean nothing. Desire, ability and coaching do.And for the writer who
called Bronco arrogant, I can only suggest you have lived a sheltered life. One
thing he is not, and that's arrogant. Don't mistake a man disliking
the limelight with having arrogance, though personal dislike may have clouded
Two country boys who no one commenting on these boards heard of 24 hours ago.
Yet now they are "Utah" Celebrities. Vililified for being something not
one of these commentators ever was, Good enough to be given a Division 1 offer
to play football. They don't care about these petty little people with
their petty little whiney comparisons of conference, BCS, Strength of Schedule
or rivalry records. They want to play for a particular school, that school
offered them a full ride and they accepted it. None of the comments on here
would change their minds, hopes or happiness.They will come to do
the best they can as every recruit in the country does no matter where they go.
They will sweat, toil, learn, grow, and line up and play who ever is put in
front of them. Some may become great and the majority (no matter what school)
will be players that did the best they could.And the whiners and
frustrated "rival" fans will never know them has humans who love and are
loved. They will never know their hearts but they will judge them none the
less. Because they themselves are wanting.
"If BYU ever gets into a major conference their recruiting will sky rocket
leaving utah in the dust, and wins against major conference teams will
follow."Prove it. Step 1: get into a power conference - LOL!
"It's crazy this utah fan obsession with records against the BCS, when
they have nothing to write home about.The fact is half the BCS has
losing records against BCS teams.And they all have been recruiting
as a BCS teams for decades.If BYU ever gets into a major conference
their recruiting will sky rocket leaving utah in the dust, and wins against
major conference teams will follow.And U will still be U."HYSTERICAL!
AZUTE1Mesa, AZAnother little factoid to give context the
BYU's #1 ranking in 1984...In 2012 Alabama earned its national
title by beating 10 BCS teams, 5 of which were ranked in the final polls...
three in the top 10.BYU backed in to it's #1 ranking by leading
up to 1984 with 10 wins against major college teams in seven years, and only one
of those teams was ranked in the final polls... SMU at 20.There is a
reason that the rules have been changed to prevent another BYU from backing-in
to a NC.
AZUTE1"Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other
teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent."Though technically not ranked since the Final AP Poll of 1984 only
included the Top 20, Air Force(8-4) did finish #24 in the Final AP Poll, which
is one place HIGHER than Utah's only ranked opponent in 2004.Also, after reaching #1 in the polls, BYU played an extra game against Utah
State(1-10).Without that extra game, which skewed the numbers and
didn't in anyway contribute to BYU's #1 ranking, BYU's 1984
opponents had a better won/loss record than Utah's 2004 opponents:1984 BYU 54-69-3 (44%)2004 Utah 53-72 (42%)BYU 1984 beat
FOUR regular season opponents with winning records:Tulsa(6-5),
Hawaii(7-4), Air Force(8-4), and Utah(6-5-1)Air Force stomped Va Tech in
their bowl game 23-7Utah 2004 only beat THREE regular season
opponents with winning records:Texas A&M(7-5), New Mexico(7-5), and
Wyoming(7-5)Texas A&M was CRUSHED by Tennessee in their bowl game 38-7
AZUTE1BYU's 1984 SOS was 82nd of 110Utah's 2004 SOS
was 70th of 120Yet Utah fans not only beat their chests about how
"deserving" the Utes were of their #4/#5 rankings, but whined
incessantly about not being given a chance to play for the national
championship.The big difference, of course, is BYU 1984 had already
established themselves as a legitimate national contender with FOUR Top 12
finishes in the preceding five years, including finishing #7 in 1983.On the other hand, Utah 2004, had only had ONE other Top 25 finish in the last
10 years, and that a modest #21 in 2003.
Relax Howard.Not a single BYU fan has EVER argued that BYU 1984 was
better than Alabama 2012.On the other hand, NOBODY was more
deserving of being selected 1984 National Champion, than BYU.The
rules weren't changed to prevent another BYU. The rules were changed to
make it easier to create a #1 versus #2 matchup in the bowls to determine the
NC.#2 Washington and #4 Nebraska were both invited to play BYU for
the NC. If you want to blame at team for trying to back into a NC, blame those
two, who tried unsuccessfully to win the championship without playing the
Marked it Down:"BYU 1984 beat FOUR regular season opponents with
winning records...Utah 2004 only beat THREE regular season opponents with
winning records."Terrible spin. The Y played 12 regular season
teams in 1984, whereas the U played 11 in 2004. Our 12th game was Pitt in the
Fiesta Bowl, and THEY had a winning record. In fact, if you added up all 13 of
your opponents win total, they match exactly the number of win totals of our 12
opponents from '04. The difference is, your opponents' LOSS totals
exceeded ours. Edge: Utah.But if you want to spin that the way you
did, then I could just as easily point out......Utah beat a bowl
team with a winning record. The Y beat a bowl team without one. Edge: Utah.
Marked it Down:"BYU's 1984 SOS was 82nd of 110"There were only 98 D-1 teams in 1984. And your SOS ranked #96. And
Utah thoroughly DOMINATED every opponent they faced. The closest
"scare" we got was from Air Force, who managed to bring the deficit to
14-pts by a late TD in the final seconds of the 4th quarter against our bench
defense. The Y had 5 games -- that's nearly HALF their season -- that were
close calls, within a single score. There's no comparison between our two
seasons. 2004 Utes > 1984 cougs.MUCH greater.Utah
2004, had only had ONE other Top 25 finish in the last 10 years. And that one
other Top-25 finish was the prior season wherein we went 10-2, and shut out
Southern Miss in the Liberty Bowl, with our new head coach, Urban Meyer. Other
8 yrs was under Ron McBride, so....different team. And for what it's
worth, McBride took Utah to a Top-10 finish in '94 after beating 4 teams
who finished ranked in the Final Polls. No Y team had ever beaten more than 2.
RE: Jazzsmack: "If BYU ever gets into a major conference their recruiting
will sky rocket"How do you figure that? WAC/MWC/Indy BYU recruits the
same predominantly LDS players. Are there large, untapped pools of highly
talented LDS recruits that BYU can't get yet because they're not in a
major conference? If there are, and BYU gets tapped by a major, they will need
a whole new coaching staff. Talented players requires coaches that can handle
them. As they proved with Jake Heaps, they don't develop talent with
Bronco at the helm.
"Chris BSalt Lake City, UTSo they have exactly one
bcs offer(Kansas) between the two of them?Lol. Sounds
like they fit perfectly at byu.""BCS offer" really only
means anything when it's a Texas, USC, Michigan, or Alabama you're
talking about. Beating out Boise would be more impressive than the other 3/4ths
which make up BCS conferences. Seriously, a player who receives an offer to
Wake Forest received a "BCS offer." He might be able to walk on at
Boise. This is just silly.
@ Marked it DownLOL....Naval Vet beat me to it, but I must admit,
it's utterly mind-boggling that anybody would dare attempt to compare 1984
byu to 2004 UTAH. Furthermore, your "comparison" begs the obvious
question--Why don't you attempt to compare using 2008 UTAH, instead? You
avoid it like the plague....Why?BTW, no matter how hard you try wish
it true, AF was NOT ranked in 1984. I always find it comical to see what OU did
to PITT in 1984 on the same, exact field merely 2 weeks later....LOL1984 byu was weak-sauce, no matter how one cuts it....Or, in your case, no
matter how one SPINS it.
I'm not quite sure why so many frantic and emotional trolls continue to
obsess over 1984. We all know the facts... BYU had a very poor strength of
schedule in 1984 and beat no ranked teams.If that that was the whole
story than the trolls would have a legitimate complaint. However, that
isn't the whole story. BYU was a true dynasty from 1979-1985, finishing
4/5 seasons ranked in the top 15 prior to the 1984 season. They didn't
need a high SOS in 1984 to prove they were legit, they had been doing that for
several years. Which is why they concluded the 1984 season as the CONSENSUS
national champions, something only about 3/4 of all national champions since the
1950s can claim. If you want to argue undeserving champions you've picked
the wrong team. Instead look at 1990, 1991, 1993, 1997, 2003, 2007... none of
those champs were clear-cut winners.
Naval Vet"There were only 98 D-1 teams in 1984. And your SOS
ranked #96. And Utah thoroughly DOMINATED every opponent they faced."Ah, so now you're back to "thoroughly dominating" weak WAC
(er MWC) teams. Now who's spinning?Jealous Utah fans simply
can't live with the fact that BYU did far more to impress the pollsters in
winning the 1984 National Championship, than Utah did in 2004.Let's compare:BYU1979 #13/#12 11-1, WAC champ, only
loss to #19/#16 Indiana 37-381980 #12/#12 12-1, WAC champ, beat the famed
#20/#20 SMU Pony Express 46-451981 #13/#11 11-2, WAC champ1982
unranked 8-4, WAC champ1983 #7/#7 11-1, WAC champ, beat #13/#15 Air Force
and #17/#13 UCLA on the road1984 #1/#1 13-0, WAC champ, beat #24 Air Force
on the roadBYU finished 1984 on a 24-game winning, with their 6th
straight WAC championship, their 5th Top 12 finish in 6 years, and back-to-back
Top 7 finishesBYU 1984 PF 35.1, PA 14.1, PD 21.0
So what did Utah 2004 do to deserve NC consideration?1999 unranked
9-3, beat 3 teams with winning records2000 unranked 4-7, lost to 4 teams
with losing records2001 unranked 8-4, tied BYU for MWC championship2002 unranked 5-6, lost to 2 teams with losing records2003 #21/#21 10-2,
MWC champ, lost to Texas A&M(4-8)2004 #4/#5 12-0, MWC champ, beat
#25/ur Pittsburgh(8-4)Utah ended 2004 on a 16-game winning streak,
with three MWC championships, two Top 25 finishes, and only one win over a
barely-ranked opponent (#25/unranked Pittsburgh) in 6 yearsUtah 2004
PF 45.3, PA 19.5, PD 25.8Overall RecordBYU 1979-1984
66-9(88%), 6 conference championships, 5 Top 12 finishes, 2 Top 7 finishesUtah 1999-2004 48-22(67%), 3 conference championships, 2 Top 25 finishes, 1
Top 5 finish
"BYU was a true dynasty from 1979-1985"Playing against
bottom-feeder schedules."If you want to argue undeserving
champions you've picked the wrong team. Instead look at 1990, 1991, 1993,
1997, 2003, 2007... none of those champs were clear-cut winners."Please list respective SOS rankings, ranked-opponents, etc., for each and
every one of these NCs. Just simply claiming it, without stating anything in
support, is utterly meaningless.
navelvet"for what it's worth, McBride took Utah to a Top-10
finish in '94 after beating 4 teams who finished ranked in the Final
Polls."For what it's worth, Utah 1994 also lost to New
Mexico(5-7) and failed to win the WAC championship.WAC champion Air
Force(8-4) wasn't ranked, while both BYU and Utah finished in the Top 10,
Utah #10/#8, BYU #18/#10.While Utah barely slipped past Arizona in
the Freedom Bowl 16-13, BYU dominated Oklahoma in the Copper Bowl 31-6.After over 100 seasons of playing football, 1994 marked the FIRST time, Utah
was ranked in the Final AP poll.1994 marked BYU's ELEVENTH
ranking in the Final AP poll.
These two could be just what we need to take us over the top.
"While Utah barely slipped past Arizona in the Freedom Bowl 16-13, BYU
dominated Oklahoma in the Copper Bowl 31-6."Arizona was ranked
#15 in the nation. OU finished the season 6-6. Not to mention, UTAH beat byu,
34-31.Spin, Spin, Spin.
LOL at the Ute fans who continue to come in hoards to BYU boards seeking
AZUTE1"Arizona was ranked #15 in the nation. OU finished the
season 6-6. Not to mention, UTAH beat BYU, 34-31."ah, so records
and rankings ARE more important than the names and labels, but only when Utah
fans claim that they matter more. It's funny how Utah fans ignore that
little detail when talking about Utah's wins against "bcs"
teams.btw, Arizona finished #20/#20; another example of the biased
spin of the hill crowd, counting the opponent's ranking when the game was
played, but counting Utah's ranking in the final poll.pot meet
RE: AZUTE1"Please list respective SOS rankings,
ranked-opponents, etc., for each and every one of these NCs. Just simply
claiming it, without stating anything in support, is utterly
meaningless."Don't need to. Simply google "consensus
national champions ncaa football" and you should be able to find the same
articles I did. Did the "disputed" national champions have higher SOS
than BYU? Probably. So what? That doesn't change the FACT that teams
from the years I mentioned status as national champs is disputed (by split polls
among other reasons), while BYU was the CONSENSUS national champions in 1984,
given that designation by ALL polls and national pundits. Now it is
true that there is one group that doesn't accept that consensus national
title, but believe me, the rest of the country could care less what fans from
little brother Utah think. Your continual posts simply show why Utah continues
to live in BYU's shadow.
Utah and BYU. Both great schools with great people. What's not to like?
Athlon MagazineCollege Football's Top 25 Greatest Dynasties of the AP
Era (1936 to present)BYU Cougars (1979-85): 77-12(87%) - 6 Top 25
finishes, 7 conference championshipsLaVell Edward’s high-flying,
revolutionary offense rolled through opponents until the pollsters finally
awarded BYU with the 1984 national championshipBest of the Rest:Boise State Broncos (2006-11): 73-6TCU Horned Frogs (2008-11):
47-5Sorry, no mention of Utah Utes
"the rest of the country could care less what"How much less
could they care? And you didn't answer my question....Post the evidence in
"support" of your claim.
phantombladeSalt Lake City, Utah"Athlon MagazineCollege Football's Top 25 Greatest Dynasties of the AP Era (1936 to
present)BYU Cougars (1979-85): 77-12(87%) - 6 Top 25 finishes, 7
conference championshipsLaVell Edward’s high-flying, revolutionary
offense rolled through opponents until the pollsters finally awarded BYU with
the 1984 national championship"Missing from this is the fact
that byu played against complete bottom-feeder schedules during this
@ AZUTE1Missing from this is the fact that byu played against complete
bottom-feeder schedules during this time-period.Shall we take a look
and see how your team faired against the same schedule? I didn’t think so.
You play with the hand that is dealt and the system of the era says 1984
National Champions. Also Athlon Magazine is not a BYU publication if
I remember correctly it is a national one. Also everyone complaining about
BYU schedule if my memory serves me correctly most of Utah’s schedule was
the same as BYU’s in 2008 and 2004 considering that they both played in
the same conference.So by slamming BYU 1984 you are doing the same
to your own team.Oh I am sorry trying to use logic with Ute fans is
out of the questions I forgot
baddog:"I can't begin to count the number of no star
athletes recruited by the Hawkeyes (and the walk-ons)from tiny high schools who
just happen to turn out as finalists for some national award or another, end up
All-American or are drafted by the pros and become starters"Yet
as of right now, the Hawkeyes have 5 commitments: two 4-stars, and three
3-stars. So unless Iowa couldn't find any 2-star kids to embellish their
current recruiting class, it looks like the Iowa coaching staff prefers the more
heralded kids too.
There sure seems to be an awful lot of Indy-WACers who either didn't
actually "read" that Athlon article, or didn't actually
"understand" it. Athlon isn't calling the Y a "dynasty
program". They were calling the Y a dynasty program "between 1979 and
1985". So essentially, the Y's dynasty ended after that '85
season. No more dynasty. Dynasty all gone.Besides....it was a WAC
dynasty. The WAC is dead, and was a weak conference while it was active. You
guys gotta get a grip. Nobody outside of your bubble looks back on the cougars
glory days and says to themselves, "Wow! The Y sure did clean up vs. the
WAC. What a difficult conference that must have been to play in."
Remember the days when Byu recruited several 4 stars and a lot of high 3 stars.
Now a mid level 3 star is about the ceiling. Those were the days.
Kind of odd, if you are only signing a dozen recruits this year, that you would
take these 2 commitments this early. without seeing what better is out there.
takes up a lot of your class. But on the other hand the offensive line is so bad
maybe adding numbers willhelp.
Snack PAC--"ah, so records and rankings ARE more important than
the names and labels, but only when Utah fans claim that they matter more.
It's funny how Utah fans ignore that little detail when talking about
Utah's wins against 'bcs' teams.btw, Arizona finished
#20/#20; another example of the biased spin of the hill crowd, counting the
opponent's ranking when the game was played, but counting Utah's
ranking in the final poll."You conveniently left-out the fact
Arizona was ranked #15 when we beat them and the fact that OU was BARELY above
.500 when byu played them. You attempted to make it seem as if UTAH/byu played 2
teams of equal-caliber in their respective bowl games, which clearly wasn't
the case.Saying Arizona still finished ranked at #20 AFTER losing to
UTAH merely further cements my point. On the other hand, OU finished precisely
at .500, thus further pointing-out that UTAH clearly faced a significantly
higher-caliber of opponent [Arizona] than did byu [Oklahoma].
Naval Vet"There sure seems to be an awful lot of Indy-WACers who
either didn't actually "read" that Athlon article, or didn't
actually "understand" it."What makes this little
PACy-WACer think he knows what the majority of BYU fans understood about the
article?"They were calling the Y a dynasty program "between
1979 and 1985". So essentially, the Y's dynasty ended after that
'85 season. No more dynasty. Dynasty all gone."That's
not at all what the article was saying. If you'd actually bothered reading
and trying to understand the article, you would have understood that it was
rating ALL dynasties from 1936 to present. Some teams, like Oklahoma, had
multiple periods that Athlon considered Top 25 dynasties, some lasting more than
a decade, some only lasting a few years.EVERY dynasty, EXCEPT
Alabama, had an END Date before 2012, so according to your misunderstanding,
Michigan's dynasty ended in 1948, Notre Dame's dynasty ended in 1973,
and Georgia's dynasty ended in 1983.BYU had one such period.Utah had NONE! In fact, USC was the ONLY PAC 12 with a Top 25
dynasty.Utah's insignificant little 2004 to 2008 period
didn't even rate a mention.
navelvet"The WAC is dead, and was a weak conference while it was
active."If the WAC was so "weak", why were the Utes only
able to win TWO WAC championships during their entire 37 years in the
conference?WAC teams during the majority of the period that BYU and
Utah were membersBYUUtahColorado StNew MexicoWyomingAir ForceSan Diego StHawaiiUTEPMWC
teams during the majority of the period that BYU and Utah were membersBYUUtahColorado StNew MexicoWyomingAir ForceSan Diego StUNLVTCU (joined in 2005; Utah only won ONE MWC
championship after TCU joined the MWC)The Utes would have been
hopelessly outmatched if they'd stayed in the MWC with BYU, TCU and Boise
State.Luckily, the PAC invited U to be a conference bottom dweller
so U can use SOS as a convenient excuse for never winning another conference
U25U forgot to click the "like" on your last post!
People need to quit rationalizing their opinions by making comparisons to things
that cannot be proven by facts. Was Utah 2008 better than BYU 1984? More than
likely. Is there any way to prove it? Absolutely not. People can try to compare
SOS. It still doesn't make a difference as there is no way to prove the
better team. Argue with facts. Utah has two BCS Bowl victories. BYU has none.
BYU has a National Championship trophy. Utah's National Championship trophy
case is empty. Deal with it.
AZUTE1"OU finished precisely at .500, thus further pointing-out
that Utah clearly faced a significantly higher-caliber of opponent [Arizona]
than did BYU [Oklahoma]."Remember that little argument the next
time U start beating your chest about Utah's bowl record.It's funny how Utah fans always left out little details like that when
they were incessantly beating their chests about their 9-bowl winning streak
that included an extremely mediocre 6-6 USC team that the Utes barely squeaked
past 10-6.It's no wonder that only four of those nine Utah bowl
winning teams were good enough to be ranked in the final poll. Yet Utah fans
yammer on about Utah's "impressive" bowl record.Sorry,
but, one mediocre team beating another mediocre doesn't make the winner
less mediocre just because it happened in a bowl - see Sun Bowl 2011.
AZUTE:"Missing from this is the fact that byu played against complete
bottom-feeder schedules during this time-period".Wow,
you're right. Funny how they missed that point when they mentioned Boise
State and TCU also. It's truly embarrassing how whiney and frantic the ute
trolls are, and how ridiculous they sound when they mock a program's
accomplishments against the very schedule their beloved utes played against.
Why are so many Utah fans defending Utah's abysmal first two years in the
PAC 12?We haven't beaten a PAC 12 team with a winning record
yet and, except for beating BYU, we don't have a single OOC win worth
bragging about.If beating BYU is all we care about, we might as well
be back in the MWC where at least we'd be competitive in something besides
"The Utes would have been hopelessly outmatched if they'd stayed in the
MWC with BYU, TCU and Boise State."LOL....Says the fan of the
school, byu, which can't EVER beat UTAH/TCU/BSU....LOL
@phoenix2-Time BCS Bowl Game WINNERS....byu=ZERO BCS Bowl Games.
Ouch! And The Sun Bowl is light-years ahead of any bowl game byu has
played/will ever play in. Nice try.Furthermore, in the spirit of
staying on topic, scroll-down and reference the original comment I was
responding to, first.
Snack PACOlympus Cove, Utah"While Utah barely slipped past
Arizona in the Freedom Bowl 16-13, BYU dominated Oklahoma in the Copper Bowl
31-6."AZUTE1Mesa, AZ"You conveniently
left-out the fact Arizona was ranked #15 when we beat them and the fact that OU
was BARELY above .500 when byu played them. You attempted to make it seem as if
UTAH/byu played 2 teams of equal-caliber in their respective bowl games, which
clearly wasn't the case.Saying Arizona still finished ranked at
#20 AFTER losing to UTAH merely further cements my point. On the other hand, OU
finished precisely at .500, thus further pointing-out that UTAH clearly faced a
significantly higher-caliber of opponent [Arizona] than did byu [Oklahoma]."
AZUTE1Always fixated on the head-to-head with BYU aren't
you.Since 2005 when TCU joined the MWC:MWC
ChampionshipsTCU 3BYU 2BSU 1Utah 1Top 25
FinishesTCU 6BSU 6BYU 5Utah 3Versus BSU, the
Utes are 0-4 since 1998, with blowout losses in 2006 and 2010Versus TCU,
the Utes are 3-3 since 2005, with blowout losses in 2009 and 2010Versus
BYU, the Utes are 3-5, with two lucky wins in the last threeSorry to
burst your crimson bubble, however, if you'd stayed in the MWC with TCU,
BSU and BYU, you'd be nothing but a middle of the pack team.
AZUTE1It doesn't matter what comment you were commenting about,
the logic remains the same; it doesn't matter what conference a team is
from, where you play them, or their storied past, a bad or mediocre team is
still bad or mediocre.Playing of bunch of such teams over an
extended period of time doesn't make them any better or the accomplishment
of beating them any more significant just because you beat them in a meaningless
@ SportsFanSince 2005, Utah is 5-3 against BYU, not 3-5. And if you
want to mention lucky wins, wouldn't all three of BYU's win's in
the past 8 years qualify as such? BYU is 0-3 against BSU, all-time. And since
2005 BYU is 2-5 against TCU (blowout losses in 2008, 2009, and 2010). If Utah
is a middle of the pack team, what would that make BYU? Clearly the Cougs are
not on the same level as Utah, TCU, and Boise. All three of these teams have a
couple things in common: First is multiple BCS appearances/wins. Second is they
usually beat BYU head-to-head.
@Snack FANI clarified 1994 for you. Honestly, I have no idea what
your point is.@SportsFanIn the past 3 years, UTAH is 3-0
vs byu. In the past 5 years, UTAH is 4-1 vs byu. In the past 11 years, UTAH is
8-3 vs byu. Overall, UTAH owns byu, 56-34-4. I can't recall the last time
byu beat TCU/BSU, if ever.
"UoU 1991Park City, UTWhy are so many Utah fans
defending Utah's abysmal first two years in the PAC 12?We
haven't beaten a PAC 12 team with a winning record yet and, except for
beating BYU, we don't have a single OOC win worth bragging about.If beating BYU is all we care about, we might as well be back in the MWC where
at least we'd be competitive in something besides W-GYM."It's simple. It's the same handful who have had a falling out with
BYU at one point in the past. They hate BYU far more than they love Utah.Regarding the Pac 12, I hope it works out. BYU and Utah are no longer
rivals and I've had family attend Utah.
As usual our jealous little brothers fail to grasp the significance of overall
records and rankings versus single game results.BYU has finished
ahead of Utah in overall record and ranking in the 5 of the last 8 years.2005 unranked/#55 BYU(6-6) < unranked/#51 Utah(7-5)2006
#16/#15/#19 *BYU(11-2) > unranked/#54 Utah(8-5)2007 #14/#15/#17
*BYU(11-2) > unranked/#34 Utah(9-4)2008 #25/#21/#32 BYU(10-3) <
#2/#4/#5 *Utah(13-0)2009 #12/#12/#15 BYU(11-2) > #18/#18/#24
Utah(10-3)2010 unranked/#45 BYU(7-6) < ur/#23/#26 Utah(10-3)2011
ur/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)2012 unranked/#26
BYU(8-5) > unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)*conference champ>
BYU better< Utah better
Two for & AZUTE:Are you guys sure you want to bring Boise State into
this discussion? BYU has lost twice AT Boise by a point. Utah has been
embarrassed and destroyed by Boise AT home, and on a neutral field in a bowl
game. If I'm a ute fan I wouldn't be bringing up BYUs comparison with
the utes against Boise. Losses of 36-3 in SLC, 26-3 in Las Vegas...ouch.
Jealous UThey'll never buy it; any record or ranking that
doesn't support their crimson-colored bias is immediately rejected as
invalid by the kids on the hill.< fingers in ears, eyes tightly
shut, repeating "lalalala" >
Why is byu fan evades and refuses to address the following, the ULTIMATE
debate-clincher--In the past 3 years, UTAH is 3-0 vs byu. In the
past 5 years, UTAH is 4-1 vs byu. In the past 11 years, UTAH is 8-3 vs byu.
Overall, UTAH owns byu, 56-34-4.
CougsndawgsWest Point , UT"Two for & AZUTE:Are you guys sure you want to bring Boise State into this discussion?"Nah, facing K. Moore and a veteran O and doing so without our starting
QB is a far cry from facing a virtually brand-new BSU O. Furthermore, losing to
BSU at home, 50-12, almost as bad as losing to UTAH at home, 54-10, is the only
thing which is utterly epic and blatantly humiliating regarding BSU.byu can't beat UTAH/TCU or BSU, period, end-of-story.
AZUTE1"Why is BYU fan evades and refuses to address the
following, the ULTIMATE debate-clincher--"Because ULTIMATE
debate clinched isn't head-to-head, it's overall record and ranking,
which even crimson-glasses wearing Utah fans recognize EXCEPT when it comes to
comparing BYU and Utah.Was UNLV(2-10) BETTER than Utah(9-4) just
because they beat the Utes 27-0?Was Colorado(3-10) BETTER than
Utah(8-5) just because they beat the Utes 17-14?If you can honestly
answer yes to each of the above without ANY qualifiers, then Utah can logically
make the argument that Utah was better than BYU 5 of the last 8 years because
Utah beat BYU.Otherwise, you have to accept the argument that BYU
was BETTER than Utah in 5 of the last 8 years because the Cougars not only
finished with a better record, but were also ranked higher, which negates your
weak, whiny excuse-making SOS arguments.
@AZUTE1They don't care that they lose in football to Utah every
year because they have a bigger stadium and they were *NC in 1984! 1984!
1984!Besides, they're totally into rugby and volleyball.Go Utes
SwoopSalt Lake City, UT"Because ULTIMATE debate clinched
isn't head-to-head, it's overall record and ranking, which even
crimson-glasses wearing Utah fans recognize EXCEPT when it comes to comparing
BYU and Utah"Says who? I've never seen this rule written
anywhere. We're 1-1 against CU in the last 2 years and have an overall
record against UNLV of 14-2.Again, why does byu fan continue to
evade this head-to-head utter and complete domination of UTAH over byu?
@Swoop--You'd also have to bring-up UNLV beating byu twice in
recent memory, including at home.Again, why does byu fan continue to
evade and refuse to address the White Elephant in the room, namely--In the past 3 years, UTAH is 3-0 vs byu. In the past 5 years, UTAH is 4-1 vs
byu. In the past 11 years, UTAH is 8-3 vs byu. Overall, UTAH owns byu, 56-34-4.
Furthermore, byu fan wants badly to point to overall record, because byu has
played against a weaker strength-of-schedule, annually, yet they can never beat
UTAH and they never beat a good team, excepting solely usu at home, barely.
AZUTE1"Says who? I've never seen this rule written
anywhere."It's common sense that every fan not living on
the hill understands. The team with the better record and ranking is the better
team in that particular year regardless of who won the head-to-head.Texas A&M beat Alabama head-to-head last year, yet Alabama played in the
bcs championship game and won the National Championship because Alabama not only
had a better record, but more importantly, was ranked higher.As far
as your weak 56-34-4 example, I give you 7 in a row, 11 of the last 12, 149-145;
BYU OWNS U in basketball.
AZUTE1"furthermore, BYU fan wants badly to point to overall
record, because BYU has played against a weaker strength-of-schedule,
annually,..."LOL!BYU and Utah were in the same
conferences from 1922 to 2010 and consequently have had nearly identical
strengths of schedule for the last 80 years.RANKINGS take into
account records AND SOS, so your whiny SOS excuse making is completely invalid
when it comes to comparing rankings.Besides, BYU played FIVE Top 25
teams last season. Utah only played TWO.Four of BYU's five
losses last season were to RANKED teams.Five of Utah's seven losses
last season were to UNRANKED teams.If U had beaten all of the
UNRANKED teams you played last season, U would have been bowling.
@AZUTE1Question for U:In 2008, Boston College beat Notre
Dame for the 6th time in a row, and the Fighting Irish currently have a .400
winning percentage against BC over the last 11 years.Out of those
two, who is the better, more relevant football program?Utah has won
3 in a row over BYU. So? I got back from my mission in 2009 in time to watch
BYU beat Utah for the third time in four years. BYU was "dominating"
Utah at that point, but that's not what we heard from Utah fans. That's the great thing about rivalries. They can swing one way or
another on a couple of plays and for a couple of years. U've gotten BYU
the last three years, two in games handed to U on a silver platter...does this
somehow make U relevant? Utah's small time, bro. BYU's a
legacy, perennial top 25 program with a National Championship in its resume.U have 2 BCS wins in the last 9 years (a great accomplishment, but not
legacy worthy) and 3 in a row over BYU.I'm still not sure which
one is more important to Ute fans.Go Cougars!
Sports Authority:"What makes this little PACy-WACer think he
knows what the majority of BYU fans understood about the article?"First of all, you've thus far failed in my prior challenge to justify
aligning the Pac-12 with the WAC, so that pretty much closes the case that
you're just hurt that I accurately defined and aligned YOUR teeny tiny
irrelevant program with the WAC, and have been calling you and Indy-WACer for
going on 3-yrs now. In short, case closed...you lost.Moving
on...Second of all, nowhere did I say that a "majority" of
your Indy-WACey fanbase misunderstood that article. I clearly stated that it
was "an awful lot". You frantically and emotionally made that up. I
wouldn't know what the "majority" of your fellow WAC-wannabes
think, but I DO know what "an awful lot" think, since they're here
spouting off, and I can read. So that's ANOTHER case you lost.
Sports Authority:And lastly..."That's not at
all what the article was saying."Nope. You got it wrong. That
WAS what the article was saying. You WERE a dynasty, from '79-'85.
You "are not" a dynasty anymore. So essentially, you were one the
"awful lot" of Indy-WACers I was talking about who either didn't
read, or didn't understand, the content of that article. Haha!
Naval VetLOL Pacy-WACer, that's not what the article said at
all.What it really said was BYU is one of only fifteen programs that
have had Top 25 Dynasties from 1936 to present. That puts BYU in an elite group
of programs that insignificant little programs like Utah can only dream of.On top of BYU's 1979 to 1985 Top 25 Dynasty, BYU has also been a
perennial Top 25 team since 1977 (18 Top 25 finishes in 36 seasons - 50%). Once
again, another significant accomplishment that only a handful of programs can
match. USC(25) and UCLA(20) are the only programs in the west that have had more
Top 25 finishes in the last 40 years than BYU(18). Utah's meager 6 is more
of an embarrassment, than an accomplishment.btw, the Utes are 0-2 in
their final two games against WAC teams and the sorry Utes only managed to win 2
championships in the 37 years they were in the WAC. Looking down your nose at
the WAC is laughable for a program that was denied a bowl berth last season
because they couldn't beat the ONLY WAC team on their schedule.
@swoop..."Says who? I've never seen this rule written anywhere.""It's common sense that every fan not living on the hill
understands. The team with the better record and ranking is the better team in
that particular year regardless of who won the head-to-head."Swoop if this is true then why is there playoffs, bowl games, superbowls,
etc.? If it's common sense to everybody but ute fans then there would be no
need to play any of these games. At the end of each regular season just crown
whatever team is ranked higher the champion. There is a very good
reason why we have superbowls, playoff's, bowl games, etc. The truly better
teams actually earn it on the field where it counts. They don't sit and
make excuses for head to head losses. There is no better way to prove what team
is better then playing the game. If that wasn't the case there is no reason
to play the game at all. We can just assemble teams and have everybody rank
which one is better then crown them champions...LOL
2BMajor college football has never had a playoff, so until we have
an 8- or 16-team playoff, rankings are all we have to determine which team is
best. Rankings will still decide which teams are better.Even Utah
fans judge how good a team is by how high they're ranked. If that
wasn't the case, why do Utah fans beat their chests every time Utah beats a
"ranked" team? How do you know that beating a ranked team is more
significant than beating an unranked team?Do you really think a team
not ranked in the Top 10 will have ANY chance of being selected to play in the
four-team playoff starting in 2014?Frankly, Utah fans are being
completely disingenuous if they're trying to claim that records and
rankings don't matter.btw, the best team doesn't always
win a playoff, but it is the fairest method of determining a champion. The
four-team format won't last more than a couple of years. Can't wait to
hear to squawking when the SEC gets two teams in the playoffs and the other four
"bigs" are left to fight over the remaining two spots.
@swoop..."Frankly, Utah fans are being completely disingenuous if
they're trying to claim that records and rankings don't
matter."I've never said records and rankings don't
matter. I'm just saying that head to head to me matters alot. It also
matters alot to the players and coaches. The only people I've heard say it
dosen't matter to be honest is Y fan's. "btw, the best
team doesn't always win a playoff, but it is the fairest method of
determining a champion."Exactly couldn't agree more
it's the fairest way because the team earns it on the field head to head.
Yes I understand upsets happen so head to head is not 100% perfect in saying who
the best overall team is. However IMO this is the best barometer we have to say
which team is better. To sit back and say rankings are full proof and teams
don't get overrated is complete non-sense and you know it."Can't wait to hear to squawking when the SEC gets two teams in the
playoffs."What squawking? SEC is the best conference hands down.
Two things I can guarantee: 1) there will be a Big 12 team left out of the 4
team playoff because of no CCG, or sits comfortably in the top 4 while a major
conference team loses out because of a CCG & 2) the SEC will have 2 teams in
at some point. Anyone who doesn't believe there would be significant
squawking about either scenario needs only look at history to see they're
wrong. And in the case of the Big 12...the above scenario is why they will get
pressure from member institutions, fans, and the other major conferences, or all
three to expand and have a CCG.
2BI haven't seen any BYU fans claiming that head-to-head
doesn't matter, just that head-to-head isn't the sole determinant of
which team is better. As you said, upsets happen. Even in a playoff, subjective
judging of teams will occur. Some teams will be "over-rated", some
"under-rated". Who's to say that the 5th-ranked team in a four-team
playoff, or the 9th-ranked team in an eight-team playoff, isn't the best
team. A team that just missed the playoffs could be the best team, but
they'll never get a chance to proof it.Playoffs work much
better in the pros because with only 30+ teams we get a much broader sample of
(continued)With 120+ major college programs, schedules are very
uneven, so it's sometimes impossible to tell whether the champion of one
conference is actually better than the 3rd-place team from another conference.
SOS isn't a fool-proof determinant either. The best team in the country
could play in a small conference with an awful SOS. Their SOS doesn't prove
they're not the best team, it only proves they weren't as rigorously
2Bre @swoop: "Can't wait to hear to squawking when the SEC
gets two teams in the playoffs.""What squawking? SEC is the
best conference hands down."You say that now, but would you
really be saying that if Alabama(12-1), Florida(12-1) and Notre Dame(11-1) were
chosen as three of the four playoff teams, and Ohio State(12-1), USC(12-1),
Oklahoma(12-1), and Boise St(12-1) were left to squabble over the last remaining
@Sportsauthority...."You say that now, but would you really be saying that
if Alabama(12-1), Florida(12-1) and Notre Dame(11-1) were chosen as three of the
four playoff teams, and Ohio State(12-1), USC(12-1), Oklahoma(12-1), and Boise
St(12-1) were left to squabble over the last remaining playoff spot."I say that now because it's the truth now and they (SEC) have
proven it for nearly the last decade. If this scenario you present was to happen
over Boise absolutley no debate. The others would be tougher to say depends on
the year I guess and the conference strength.I'm not one of
those fan's that will say mid-major's deserve a shot with the same
record as BCS conference teams. In 2008 I think Utah deserved a shot at Nat.
title however do I think they would have went undefeated in the SEC that year,
no way! So IMO and SEC team with the same record definitley deserves the shot
over a mid-major. Utah/TCU/Boise/Hawaii/Y in their undefeated seasons I
don't think any would have done so in the ACC/SEC/PAC12/BIG10/BIG12.
These debates are just exhausting to read. It's history. Let it go. For
Utah fans to diminish BYU's national championship is ridiculous. It was
consensus. That means everyone. Not just BYU fans---I'm talking to you
Coach Stobart. Yet, for BYU fans to proclaim relevancy based on '84 is also
ridiculous. For Utah fans to proclaim program (keyword) superiority based on
their head-to-head BYU record (especially recently) as well as the illustrious
participation award they get for PAC12 membership, is ridiculous. If PAC12
participation denotes relevance, then every Utah fan comment that is derogatory
towards BYU for a) playing a "BCS" team, b) scheduling a "BCS"
team, or c) receiving a commitment from a player that had "BCS"
offers/interest is entirely moot.Go Cougs.
@ekute and all Ute fansAll I ever hear in your argument is, "We
play in the Pac-12" and "We've won 2 bowl games" Rather than
combat programs statistically, you rely on 2 things: that fact that you did win
2 bowl games and you are in the Pac-12. You won those bowl games as a non-BCS
school. So, why then argue against BYU's independence saying non-BCS
schools are inferior? You're stating your successes are now negated
because you weren't in a power conference when you actually did anything
noteworthy. Now, lets see if you're capable of evaluating the team you
support not the league. It seems the reason you all so strongly pull the Pac-12
card is because you want to ride the curtail of the Stanfords and USCs in the
world. I have a nephew who plays basketball for Lehi, is Lehi good at
basketball because they played in the same league as a team that finished ranked
#1 in the nation (Lone Peak). Nope, turns out their record says they're
pretty bad. They are just like you and finished with a sub .500 record.