@ nhatchFirst off, Northern Colorado and Montana St. are Division 1.
They just play in the FCS division instead of the FBS. Most FBS teams (BYU
included) play at least on FCS team per year.Second thing is last
season Montana St. finished ranked higher than FIVE of the teams on BYU's
schedule. The SEC is considered a powerhouse conference because no
other conference can seem to beat any SEC teams with any consistency. In other
words, the SEC's impressive record against non-conf. foes (including FCS
teams) is the catalyst for its reputation.Now back to the main
point. Utah has put together a solid 6-1 record against non-conf. competion with
its only loss coming to a ranked team, on the road, in overtime. Utah has
struggled in conf. play so far, but those saying that Utah's struggles in
conf. play have been an embarrassment or a disappointment to the PAC-12 are dead
wrong. Utah has strengthened the profile of the PAC with its non-conf. play.
Whatever happens in conf. play is a wash because one PAC-12 teams gets a W and
another gets an L.
@2 for flinchseriously you think you are making valid statement but
you are not! You are the same people who say that because we played some
"cupcake" wac team that we are a weak team. northern colorado and
montana state are not even division 1 teams. those wins are like beating alta
high school. if you don't recognize that then i have to assume you spend
your time reading glamour or vogue instead of Sports Illustrated. Regardless of
what you think those two wins do nothing...ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING to build the utes
or the PAC 12 up other than you guys having a 5-7 year instead of a 4-8. The SEC
built a reputation because they are a powerhouse confrence with powerhouse teams
and have won more national championships than any other confrence, not because
the can beat northern colorado. you are livin in a fantasty world buddy!
Dick Harmon,I have always like you since the Provo Harold Days, and
I almost always trust you in your assessment of the BYU Cougar Football Team.I think you did a good job at elevating the position of HC Bronco
Mendenhal. I have had a vicarious hate/love relation with the
coach. The things that I complained most about he has corrected, i.e. getting a
DC so that he could spend his time being a HC for the whole team and not just
the Defense; Getting somebody with experience to be the OC. Getting a QB that
can QB; and preparing the Offensive to be as good as the Defense; and to raise
the importance of football while he is HC to an elevation far above the #5-7
that he had before.The past 3 years has shown that a HC needs to see
football much more important thant #5-7 in order to be successful in all of
defense, offense, and special teams. You made me a beliver, once again in our
HC Bronco Mendenhal. May he bring us back to Prominance that we enjoyed int the
@ nhatch#1. Utah has won 6 of the 7 games they have played against
non-Pac 12 teams. Like it or not, that makes the conf., as a whole, look
stronger. That fact that Utah finished in the lower half of the conf. standings
just strengthens my point. It suggests that there are good teams from top to
bottom. How do you not understand that? The SEC built it reputation because
all of it's members tend to do very well in non-conf. games, then get beat
up by the really good teams during conf. play. That same thing applies here.
The more non-conference games, and bowl games PAC-12 teams win, the stronger the
conf. looks. It's very simple logic.#2. You did bring up SOS
when you said this: "You also have had the weakest PAC12 schedule of any
team and are still bottom dwellers."It would not have been four
"more" losses. Oregon and Stanford replaced UW and Cal. Utah lost to
UW both years and split the series with Cal. At most it would have been 1 more
loss over the past two seasons, unless Utah pulled an upset. Again, not hard to
@Two for flinching 2points#1 Here is your original post buddy
read it."Utah is 5-1 in OCC games since joining the conf. and is
1-0 in bowl games. That fact that Utah has performed so well against non-conf.
foes, but struggles against PAC-12 teams, makes the league look stronger, not
weaker."You are telling me a win against northern colorado,
montana state, 2 below avg BYU teams. 1 avg UT State and 1 good UT State team
(Loss), a sub 500 Pitt team, and an avg Georgia Tech team makes you and the Pac
12 look good? Ridiculus.#2I am not talking about SOS. you
ute fans are obsessed with this for some reason. I am saying if you had to play
Oregon and Stanford your first two years in the league it would have been 4 more
losses automatically. You didn't even play the two hardest teams in the
Pac 12 and you still had a terrible record, thus propelling you to the basement
of the Pac 12.
AZUTE1"BYU's SOS ranking in '11 was #90. CU's was
#21. If we absolutely brutally curb-stomped BYU on their homefield, 54-10, just
imagine what CU would've done to them..."LOL at your
naivete!Comparative are the most meaningless predictor in sports.By that line of "reasoning":BYU beat Georgia Tech on
the road 41-17 (+24), Georgia Tech beat USC in the Sun Bowl 21-7 (+14), USC beat
Utah in RES 38-28 (+10), so of course BYU brutally curb stomped Utah in RES
58-10.Oh wait, that didn't happen.Who cares what
Colorado's SOS was; unlike Kyle, Bronco doesn't lose to pathetic
10-loss teams like Colorado and UNLV.
@ nhatch82No. Utah's non conf. games have been UNCO, Mont. St.
BYU (one home, one away, @ USU, and @ Pitt, and a Sun Bowl win over Georgia
Tech. Also, ASU's SOS was less than Utah's last season and Utah was
only a few spots behind CU, Oregon, and Washington in regards to SOS, and that
was without playing Standford and/or Oregon. @ WiscougarfanSo what you are nhatch are arguing is that even though Utah has gone 6-1
against teams not from the PAC-12 in the past two seasons it somehow makes the
conf. look weak? Is that really your point (because it's wrong), or are
you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Define a "few"
cream puffs? Because half of the schedule is not a few.
AZUTE:I swear I've never seen someone use so many excuses for
Utah's failures (or Colorado's for that matter).You said-
"Playing at Hawaii in Game 1 is a far cry from playing them at season's
end. CU's schedule consisted of playing against the following
teams--"Who cares about the rest of their schedule...I brought
up one like opponent the two programs had in 2011 to show how ridiculous your
comment was about how you couldn't see BYU winning a single game against
their schedule...except they did. And easily beat a team that finished ahead if
them against a tough PAC12 schedule also. Face it your "comment/point"
DO NOT stand up to logical scrutiny regardless how many excuses you want to
RE: Two For Flinching“Utah is 5-1 in OCC games since joining
the conf. and is 1-0 in bowl games. That fact that Utah has performed so well
against non-conf. foes, but struggles against PAC-12 teams, makes the league
look stronger, not weaker.”Yeah, because losing to WAC rival
USU and wins over Northern Colorado, Montana State, BYU, and Pitt (who finished
the season with a losing record), makes the conference of champions look quite
mighty indeed. Aren’t you the same person that says BYU can’t be
taken seriously because they play a few cream puffs each season?
RE: AZUTE1Continually bringing up BYU’s SOS makes little sense
in talking about the BYU/UofU rivalry. Yes, in the year that Utah thrashed us
their SOS was significantly higher. But in 2012 BYU had a higher SOS than
several BCS programs, including Florida State, NC State, Cincy, and UConn. In
fact, BYU’s rank of #63 is the exact same as one BCS conference’s
average team rank (#63). In 2013 BYU’s pre-season rank of #22 is higher
than all but three PAC12 teams. What matters is winning games, not
having excuses for when your team loses. Go Cougs!
@Two for Flinching"Utah is 5-1 in OCC games since joining the conf.
and is 1-0 in bowl games. That fact that Utah has performed so well against
non-conf. foes, but struggles against PAC-12 teams, makes the league look
stronger, not weaker." by occ is assume you are saying ooc? Out
of Confrence, not Orange Coast College or Onondaga Community College?HAHAHAHAHADo you know who your out of confrence games are? Montana
State, Northern Colorado,2 Utah State,2 BYU. Seriously? Let's
not pretend your out there playing LSU and Alabama. You also have had the
weakest PAC12 schedule of any team and are still bottom dwellers. In 2 years
you have yet to play Oregon or Stanford, which would have been an automatic loss
for you guys. Your facts are completely irrelevant and as AZUTE1 would say
utterly and absolutley useless! Really AZute a couple less adjectives would
benefit us all.
BlutoSandy, UT"@ Two for...aka Howard S....aka AZUte...aka
Naval Legacy Programs must have these things in common...."Please include byu's annual strength-of-schedule [i.e., finishing
with the #96 ranked strength-of-schedule out of 98 total D-1 schools ranked in
CougsndawgsWest Point , UT"AZUTE:Like most
Utah trolls you're missing the point because you can't see through
your crimson haze. You're saying BYU would have been fortunate to win a
single game against Colorado's SOS in 2011?"Playing at
Hawaii in Game 1 is a far cry from playing them at season's end. CU's
schedule consisted of playing against the following teams--CAL, @
Ohio State, @ Stanford, @ UW, Oregon, @ ASU, USC, ua & @ UCLA. byu has
never, ever had to navigate such a SOS, ever.My previous
comment/point stand, period, end-of-story.
@ Two for...aka Howard S....aka AZUte...aka Naval Legacy Programs
must have these things in common....-A Unanimous National
Championship-Domination of their Conference (BYU has 23 Conference
Championships)-Consensus All-Americans (BYU has had 16) (over 60
All-Americans)-Prominent NFL players (BYU has Super Bowl
and NFL MVP's....55 BYU players have played in Super Bowls since
'84)-College Hall of Famers (BYU-7)-Heisman and
Outland Trophy winners (BYU has 21 National Award winners including Baugh,
O'Brian, Walker and Maxwell Trophies.-Legendary Hall of Fame
Coach-Top-25 finishes (18)For Starters....When the University of Utah Football program can match these accomplishments,
then get back to us. Until then, all of the False Bravado exhibited by Ute
trolls is just that....False Bravado!
"BYU played most of the season with a QB who had a broken back.ND handled USC 20-13 in the Coliseum on their way to a bcs championship game,
while BYU was one errant pass away from beating Notre Dame in South Bend.The next week, BYU destroyed Georgia Tech on the road, the same Yellow
Jackets team that easily handled USC in the Sun Bowl."USC played
without Matt Barkley against ND/GT, as well as GT having extra-time to prepare
for USC, and byu played against ND minus their starting QB. This is too easy,
seriously.p.s. Did you see the antics of USC in El Paso? Extremely
@ nhatch82"Your performance in the Pac 10.5 (Utah and Colorado
being the .5) is terrible. you don't beat the teams you should and you have
been a consistent bottom dweller."Utah is 5-1 in OCC games since
joining the conf. and is 1-0 in bowl games. That fact that Utah has performed
so well against non-conf. foes, but struggles against PAC-12 teams, makes the
league look stronger, not weaker.@ PAC manI think your
post boils down to this: ND was not that good, and neither was USC. Both teams
were badly exposed in their respective bowl games.
Does anyone remember a score of 28-21? That's right.... I don't care
what the overall success is against claimed illustrious competition... The
bottom line is a 'reigning' national champion (and I do believe
current #1) was invited and accepted the invitation to play in Provo, and they
lost! The game of games.... The propeller to the only Heisman Trophy winner this
silly state will EVER see! That less than a decade after the ONLY consensus
National Championship we will ever see either!
@nhatch82--byu's SOS ranking in '11 was #90. CU's
was #21. If we absolutely brutally curb-stomped byu on their homefield, 54-10,
just imagine what CU would've done to them. LOLLosing merely
once to CU hardly constitutes not beating the teams we should, but rather just
simply the lone-exception....Nice try.
AZUTE1"ND without their QB."BYU played most of
the season with a QB who had a broken back.ND handled USC 20-13 in
the Coliseum on their way to a bcs championship game, while BYU was one errant
pass away from beating Notre Dame in South Bend.The next week, BYU
destroyed Georgia Tech on the road, the same Yellow Jackets team that easily
handled USC in the Sun Bowl.
AZUTE:Like most Utah trolls you're missing the point because you
can't see through your crimson haze. You're saying BYU would have been
fortunate to win a single game against Colorado's SOS in 2011? Well the
mighty Buffs played Hawaii and lost by 17 points. BYU beat them by 3 TDs...oops,
you want to retract? Then in OSUs case, you completely ignored nhatch's
point that Oregon State was a better team, finishing higher against like
opponents in the PAC12 than CU. BYU also beat them handily. You've become
so accustomed to using SOS as an excuse for Utah that you've decided to
make it an excuse for one of the worst teams in college football in 2011. To use
your vernacular...BYU "curb stomped" the only like opponent they had
with CU, while CU was "curb stomped" by said opponent. Kind of blows
your theory apart. Your point clearly DOES NOT stand.
AZUTE1OSU was horrible in '11 and UTAH utterly destroyed them.
Nice trySo why didn't you curb-stomp Colorado then? they
performed just as badly in the pac 12 that year. Basically we are trying to
point out that your comment is useless and it doesn't matter. Your
performance in the Pac 10.5 (Utah and Colorado being the .5) is terrible. you
don't beat the teams you should and you have been a consistent bottom
dweller. Your coach has done nothing but fail since you got to the confrence,
which is what our original comments were about. On the other hand you can all
put those sweet Pac12 stickers on your bumper, so you've got that going for
ya.You utes fans talk about how byu is so terrible and don't
even consider us a rivalry anymore, but for some reason you troll on every
single byu article. If we are so bad why are you bragging about
"curb-stomping" us? I promise AZUTE1 you aren't as cool as you
people think you are. Nice Try.
@wcfJS had byu's SOS ranked #90, UTAH's #49 and CU's
#21. My point clearly stands.@nhatch82OSU was horrible
in '11 and UTAH utterly destroyed them. Nice try.
AZUTE1Seeing how UTAH absolutely brutally curb-stomped byu during
this same, exact season, just imagine what CU would've done to byu. byu
would've been fortunate to even remotely win even one, single game had they
played against CU's SOS in 2011.Actually buddy on Saturday Oct
15 2011 Byu beat Oregon State 38-28 at Oregon State. Oregon State did have a
better record. Thanks for playing troll somewhere else
RE: AZUTE1"Seeing how UTAH absolutely brutally curb-stomped byu
during this same, exact season, just imagine what CU would've done to byu.
byu would've been fortunate to even remotely win even one, single game had
they played against CU's SOS in 2011."I don't get the
point that you're trying to make with strength of schedule. In 2011
Anderson & Hester had BYU SOS rank at #61 which was just behind Utah (#49),
Miami (#50) and Ohio State (#52) and just ahead of teams like Florida Sate
(#65), Louisville (#79), and North Carolina (#83). Colorado, the preseason #1
SOS, ended the season ranked #35 in SOS. So, what’s your
point? Are you trying to say that Utah, Miami, TCU, Southern Miss, OSU, FSU,
etc. are all bad teams because they didn't have top 25 SOS? Or that
independent schedules that include a few cupcakes and a few great teams are
actually very similar to most BCS teams' schedules?
@nhatch82--"Your coach should be the one on the hot seat. 2
straight years of truly underwhelming performaces in the "GREAT PAC 12",
highlighted by a absolutely unforgivable loss to a colorado team who hadn't
won a road game in 35 yaers!"Seeing how UTAH absolutely brutally
curb-stomped byu during this same, exact season, just imagine what CU
would've done to byu. byu would've been fortunate to even remotely
win even one, single game had they played against CU's SOS in 2011.
WiscougarfanNice research!Howie,Your coach
should be the one on the hot seat. 2 straight years of truly underwhelming
performaces in the "GREAT PAC 12", highlighted by a absolutely
unforgivable loss to a colorado team who hadn't won a road game in 35
yaers! You should worry a bit more about your own teams failures. I understand
why you are here though. Its easy to point at the faults of others that look at
the giant Stanford redwood tree in your eye!
"Deuce, The BYU Defense ended up ranked 4th in the country! The vast
majority of the games we lost were by less than 7 points in low scoring affairs
(even against Notre Dame, at Notre Dame). The defense kept us in most games and
actually scored more points than the offense in others (see, e.g., our bowl
game)! If not for brilliant defense, last season would have been a disaster. Now
with an up-tempo offense and plenty of talent on the offensive side of the ball,
improvement is inevitable."ND without their QB. ND played down
to their opponents. ND made PITT look like world-beaters, although at least
PITT took ND AT ND into OT AND ND had their QB, to boot. BSU was breaking in a
brand-new O. byu's D loses 7 starters from last season. Anae was
previously run-off for being utterly inept. No o-line and an inexperienced QB
who's already proven to be injury-prone. With a slightly upgraded
schedule, expect a loooooooong season in utah county in 2013.
The following are teams’ records (all-time) against teams ranked in the
final polls.1 Oklahoma (114-127-7) .4722 Notre Dame
(130-152-9) .46224 Colorado (52-164-4), .24530 Houston (30-121-6),
.21045 BYU (15-72-1), .17651 East Carolina (11-62-1), .155452
Utah (15-84-1), .155056 Oregon State (27-177-2), .14060 Cal
(28-198-5), .13268 Washington St (20-162-3), .116Say what you
will about BYU's SOS in the past... they've still beat more ranked
teams than Utah, OSU, Cal, and WSU.
The following are teams’ records (all-time) against teams ranked in the
final polls.1 Oklahoma (114-127-7) .4722 Notre Dame
(130-152-9) .46224 Colorado (52-164-4), .24530 Houston (30-121-6),
.21045 BYU (15-72-1), .17651 East Carolina (11-62-1), .155452
Utah (15-84-1), .155056 Oregon State (27-177-2), .14060 Cal
(28-198-5), .13268 Washington St (20-162-3), .116
Deuce, The BYU Defense ended up ranked 4th in the country! The vast majority of
the games we lost were by less than 7 points in low scoring affairs (even
against Notre Dame, at Notre Dame). The defense kept us in most games and
actually scored more points than the offense in others (see, e.g., our bowl
game)! If not for brilliant defense, last season would have been a disaster.
Now with an up-tempo offense and plenty of talent on the offensive side of the
ball, improvement is inevitable.
Howard SSo what you are saying is that Utah got into the PAC 12
solely on their academic achievements and record because they do not have a
gaudy record from their WAC/MWC days like BYU!!!That is pretty funny!!!Utah was given two gift wrapped season without having to play against the
cream of the crop and could not win their division or finish above .500! It will
be interesting to see how they do this year!!!Go Cougs!!!Go
It doesn't matter who he hires, how arrogant or stubborn he is, what
defense he runs, who he chooses to play on and on. The only things that matter
are 1. Nobody in the program should embarrass his employer. 2. Win enough games
to be live up to the top 25 expectations. BYU needs to wait till the end of the
season to sign the extension.
GO_COUGARS! impostorBoise State never would have played in a bcs
game if the Broncos hadn't first taken care of business in the WAC.-------------HowardA bad team is a bad team,
regardless of which conference they're in.A good team is a good team,
regardless of which conference they're in.Nobody except you and
your hill troll buddies cares what your record against "bcs" teams is,
if the only "bcs" teams you've beaten have losing records.Despite your frantic and emotional spin to the contrary, the difference
between a Top 25 program and a two-hit flash-in-the-pan wannabe is this:Utah Ranked in AP Poll: 2 Times (Preseason), 5 Times (Final), 77 Weeks
(Total)BYU Ranked in AP Poll: 11 Times (Preseason), 17 Times (Final), 236
@deductive reasoningI've never said Utah got into the PAC
because they were a national power...I do say that BYU's
WAC/MWC glory is irrelevant in the modern world of big boy football and will not
get BYU into a power conference.
@truthmachine"Boise State made a name for themselves in the
WAC."Wrong. Boise State made a name for themselves by beating
good teams in BCS Bowls.
Howard S.Stop pretending that the Utes were invited to the PAC
because they're a national power. We all know that a team that's only
cracked the AP Top 25 FIVE times in their entire history doesn't deserve to
even be mentioned in the same breath as a team that has:1 National
Championship1 Heisman Trophy6 Hall of Fame Players15 National
Individual Award Winners17 AP/18 Coaches Top 25 Finishes
Howard S. - Put up a winning season in the pac 11.1 before you put
any more smack.
Howie:"Someone tells me that Bronco has 1 victory against a team
ranked in the final polls... how many do GA and Florida have?"Well
first of all, I know this isn't true because I can name three off the top
of my head that finished the season ranked In The BCS, ap, or coaches polls, or
all three (TCU '07, Utah '09, Oregon st '09) and that's just
off the top of my head, I think there was another one somewhere in there."Too much unexplained in your numbers, for example do you consider
rankings at the time of the game or final pools? It makes a difference."At the time of the game, but the rankings for Florida and Georgia are also at
game time, so equal in measure."Also are you comparing 40 years
for BYU with a different time frame (what does all-time for FLA mean?) It makes
a difference".I only made the statement for the last 40 years for BYU
because that's the timeframe you brought up. The Georgia and Florida
numbers are all time, so there may be discrepancy here, but again I only brought
up 40 years because you did.
Alls I know is he should be the highest paid coach in the country if not the
Howard S.What difference does it make whether a ranked team is a
"bcs" or "non-bcs" team?It's laughable that
Utah fans beat their chest about beating FOUR ranked teams in 2008, when only
two of those ranked teams were "bcs" teams.It's quite
obvious that Utah fans only make distinctions between the two when it suits
their biased purpose.The truth is, BEING a ranked team is a MUCH
bigger accomplishment than BEATING a ranked team.The only reason
Utah fans pretend that being ranked isn't a superior accomplishment is
because the Utes have been so pathetic at BEING ranked.U have
absolutely no concept of what it takes to be a perennial Top 25 team for four
Dear Howard S. You apparently have amnesia when it comes to Utah. All those
WAC years Utah was side-by-side with BYU in the WAC/MWC conferences, so you
played anemic teams also and your record was not good then. Your undefeated
seasons were against weaker MWC opponents (which you hold against BYU. A few
wins against two BCS teams seems to make you greater than sliced bread in your
eyes. You are a bottom feeder in a week PAC 10+2 and will be for years. I wish
it wasn't so, but it will be the way for quite some time. Your
lack of acceptance that you played week teams also is on the same level of
Nelson refusing to admit he was injured and could not perform. He, and Doman,
believing him week after week is the cause of our 8-5 season. Riley was not
just stubborn, but was not completely honest in his continuing to claim he was
healthy. He proved week after week he was not healthy at all.
@Cougsndawgs While I take with a grain of salt your statements on
number of BYU ranked opponents and wins... even if true, you'll have to be
a little more specific to be meaningful.Too much unexplained in your
numbers, for example do you consider rankings at the time of the game or final
pools? It makes a difference.Also are you comparing 40 years for
BYU with a different time frame (what does all-time for FLA mean?) It makes a
difference.If your going to make comparisons, be specific and
consistent.So how does Florida and GA compare to Bronco's
record of victories against teams ranked in the final polls? Someone tells me
that Bronco has 1 victory against a team ranked in the final polls... how many
do GA and Florida have?Try that...
Great Teams require a good QB. Both BYU and the U have struggled in that
department lately, partly due to injuries. I liked both James Lark and Riley
Nelson, but both threw a lot of bad passes (same can be said of Tebow and Favre
to a lesser extent).I hope BYU and the U's QBs stay healthy this
1) Both BYU and Utah have beaten very good teams in the last 8 years - to
exclude teams like TCU, Boise St., A.F. and USU (when they had good years) is
just BCS-esque Arrogance. Before the U left, the MtnWest had a great record
against the big boys, like Oklahoma, Alabama and UCLA (59-0).2) This last
years BYU defense was awesome. It will be hard to duplicate.3) Neither BYU
nor UofU are likely to match the UofU's success in 2004 and 2008 in the
near future. BYU's schedule this year is very difficult and Utah's is
even harder.4) To Silent Lurker - Going 5-8 is not mathematically possible
this year - but yes 5-7 would be hard to take.
@Truth MachineA WAC power is not a national power. A
gaudy winning record in the WAC/MWC may garner the Cougars national attention...
but it doesn't make BYU a national power, especially when the Cougar's
record against major conference teams is mediocre at best.If BYU
were a national power it would have it's choice of conferences to join...
like ND.BYU as WAC/MWC power remains on the outside looking in.
Howie: Read carefully. Since you want to quote the past 40 yrs...since
1972 BYU has played 69 nationally ranked opponents. They are 28-41 against those
opponents (about 40%). So unless Goergia and Florida are in fact NOT nationally
respected programs, BYU deserves respect in regards to their accomplishments and
their winning percentage against good competition.Also look at my
previous post, Whitt has a lower win percentage against ranked opponents, and
BCS ranked opponents than bronco Mendenhall. So unless you're calling for
Kyle's head you might want to back off Mendenhall. Broncos 36% is very
similar to Florida's all time 39% against ranked opponents.Now
do you really want me to try again, or go further?
Amazing to see all the poor little BYU-obsessed Utes jumping on here. I read the
article and didn't see anything about Utah so am scratching my head about
why this is interesting to these people. Who cares what you think about BYU and
Howard S."Certainly BYU is on the list of top 25 rankings...
that is fact.It is also fact that BYU achieved those rankings by its
success against WAC level competition."BYU became a national
power as a WAC team. Boise State made it's name in the WAC.The
only fans who whine about BYU's success during their WAC era, are whiny
Utah fans whose team did absolutely NOTHING during their 37 years in the WAC.It's laughable that Utah fans try to minimize BYU's success in
the WAC, when Utah's only real success in their entire history occurred in
the MWC, which was basically the same core group of teams as the WAC.The hypocrisy of Utah fans knows no bounds.
@CougsndawgsWest Point , UT"Most teams have .500 or close
records against ranked opponents."Read carefully Cougsndawgs...
BYU's 43% record over 40 years is not against "ranked" teams, its
against all major conference teams that it has played ranked or not (mostly
unranked).In Broncos tenure against "ranked" teams BYU
isn't close to 50%... he is 36% against ranked teams. Against
"ranked" BCS teams Bronco has a 22% record.So no...
BYU's record against ranked opponents isn't close to legitimately
strong teams in power conferences that earn their rankings week in and week out
against 1st tier competition.Whatever BYU has accomplished has been
against 2nd tier WAC/MWC/BigWest/BigSky competition.Try again...
Use to love BYU football..now I find it so boring. Not sure if it's due to
the program or if my priorities have just changed. Probably both.
I think Mendenhall realized Tom Homoe was willing to give him the level of
coaching control he wanted when he allowed him to force Lance Reynolds into
retirement. After 2010 Anae realized he couldn't stay with a program with
a disgruntled Lance Reynolds who had been passed over by the BYU administration
twice (2000 & 2004) for the head job, and at that point Reynolds wasn't
going anywhere just yet. But after 2012 when Reynolds passed the 401k-anuity
conversion age of 58.5, both Holmoe and Bronco realized they could make a
coaching move that would make the personnel situation more palitable. Unlike
Gary Crowton when LaVell retired, Bronco can pick and choose his own people, and
this represents a huge paradigm shift for BYU.But the bigger
paradigm shift will still be forthcoming since league alignment is still more
unsettled with an undersized Big 12, that BYU still remains a target for along
with perhaps another MWC school or two. Bronco wants to be the transition coach
for this when (as opposed to if) it comes.@Howard S Your Utes were
teh WAC 2nd tier BYU loved to much on for 2 of those decades!
I somewhat agree with Howard S. BYU has a very good record against WAC/MWC type
competition, but they can't seriously lay claim that they are as good as
true legacy programs like Alabama, Notre Dame, Ohio State, or USC. (Not trying
to troll here, just saying how I see it.) Bronco rarely struggles
against lesser teams, but he clearly struggles against bigger teams. Whitt on
the other hand sometimes struggles with smaller teams, but he more frequently
wins the bigger games.Neither coach should be thrown under the
bus... yet. Bronco needs to prove he can win with a tough schedule, and Whitt
needs to prove he can compete with the PAC-12.
Howie:You aren't getting the point. Most teams have .500 or close
records against ranked opponents. I'm a Georgia fan, and they were also
listed in Athlons top 25 dynasties. Do you know what their all time record is
against ranked opponents...41%. Nearly identical to BYUs. Alabama's?...49%.
Florida's?...39%. ND's?...57% (and that's #2 percentage all time
against ranked opponents). You want to act like BYUs winning percentage over the
last 40 years against ranked opponents is bad, when it fact it is very much the
norm when compared to other great college football programs. So your
argument that they've accomplished everything against weak opponents is
disingenuous, when they have performed very similarly to great historical
football programs against ranked opponents.
A guarantee BYU will have a winning season this year. I am pumped!
Bronco and his band of blunders was responsible for 54-10. I hope they resign
him for life.
@toomanytorespondto:Here is the deal Cougar fans...Certainly BYU is on the list of top 25 rankings... that is fact.It
is also fact that BYU achieved those rankings by its success against WAC level
competition.Other teams on that list achieved their ranking by
success against major conference competition.Over a period 40 years
and in Bronco's tenure the facts show that BYU has a losing record against
competition from major conferences.While the Cougars are great a
beating 2nd tier competition... when it comes to competition from major
conferences BYU has shown itself to be mediocre at best.So...
perhaps it's time for Cougar fans to face the reality that while they may
be on the lists, they are far from equivalent to teams from major conferences
that prove themselves week in and week out against top tier competition.
Howard,Perhaps these Cougar fans have read the ESPN 2009 list of top
25 most prestigious college football programs. BYU was listed as a top 25
team.It is NOT just BYU fans that say BYU has a legacy.
I don't believe that Mendenhall has EVER said he was "anxious" to
negotiate a new contract or contract extension. You say he is. He may be, but
he's never said anything like that.
Silent Lurker"Bronco knows that his win percentage will take a
hit with an improved future schedules..."During the
Independent/PAC era:Wins versus FBS teams with winning recordsBronco 4/11 (36%)Kyle 3/13 (23%)Losses to FBS teams with
losing recordsBronco 1/12 (8%)Kyle 2/10 (20%)Bronco has
been doing a better job of beating good teams and not losing to bad teams than
his counterpart up north.2012 wasn't such a bad season, it was
more a huge disappointment because of a lot of wasted potential - it should have
been at least a 10- or 11-win season with 3 or 4 wins versus Top 25 teams.
How many articles are they going to write about Bronco's contract?
It's just a way to stir the pot between Utah and BYU fans.
Coach Anae came back to BYU for a reason, and is the future; all parties know
@wazzup:It wasn't all Bronco's fault I don't think.
Riley should share the blame for being too proud to accept the fact he was hurt
and should've told Bronco to let someone else took over. But, I guess his
ego was too big and he wanted to prove he was tough and could make things
happen. Unfortunately, it led to us losing some games we shouldn't have
lost.Go Cougars! And go Utes too! And here's hoping you will
win all your games except one. I know that'll make my friend Chris B and
all his other buddies livid but it would sure make me cheery and blissfully
delighted! Btw, if Bronco loses to Whit again this year, I'm going to
personally recommend to Holmoe to nix the proposed multi million dollar contract
he's seeking and replace it with 3 years worth of food stamps! lol! So are
you hearing me Bronc? BEAT UTAH THIS YEAR, DANG IT!!!
@Howard S. Howie, really, if you spent as much time promoting the Utes as you
do ripping the Cougs, you'd probably enjoy life much better. Sometimes you
anti-Cougs act as though the world ends at the Utah border! Why don't you
spend some time comparing the Utes versus Stanford, or USC, or UCLA?
Re: Howard S.I am sure that the wannabes up North are jealous of
BYU's accomplishments and it appears your comments are proof of that.If you want to contest BYU's top 25 dynasty rating, why don't
you give us your professional credentials.Are you a professional,
national sports writer?I thought so.
Interesting psychoanalysis of Coach Mendenhall. Perhaps being head football
coach at BYU takes an extraordinary man given the world wide fan base, the honor
code at BYU and the scrutiny those two things brings with it that no other
university athletic program is blessed with. Because of these differences, there
is an internal and an external increased level of expectation at BYU; "the
bar really has been raised" at BYU. The man that can balance all of that,
please critics and win every game hasn't been born yet and yet some fickle
fans and critics demand more of Bronco Mendenhall than they would of say-Kyle
Whittingham for example. As another amateur psychoanalysis of coach Mendenhall,
I would say that unlike most other head coaches, football isn't the most
important part of his job, building men is. As Peter Drucker said, "Good
managers (insert coaches) do things right, good leaders do the right things
(insert moral coaching). At that, Bronco Mendenhall excels!
Can we please stop with the Utah homers' naive BYU bashing? Given
Utah's pathetic record in the PAC12, they have absolutely nothing to say.
Utah is on nobody's radar screen. Nobody.As for you Bronco
bashers, well, we'll see. I've been watching BYU football since the
early Lavell years. Bronco's record is as good as Lavell's to this
point. Lavell put BYU on the map, and I'm pretty convinced that Bronco will
put BYU in the national conversation. Undefeated? Maybe not, but consistent top
25? I can see that happening.Forget Heaps and Nelson. That bizarre
stuff won't happen again. You can bet on that.
Bronco knows that his win percentage will take a hit with an improved future
schedules..so now is a perfect time for a contract extension. If last year was a
bad season at 8-5 can you imagine what will happen if this year is 5-8? If that
happens, I guarantee their will be calls for a new head coach. Smart move
NO excuse for playing a player with a broken back. NONE. Does it really take
reflection to figure that out. My grandson could have told you that. the
biggest problem Bronco has is his stubbornness. He would rather put a player
and team at risk just to prove a point. After one disastrous game from Riley,
after his obvious injury, without skipping a beat, Bronco said Riley is still
the starter. C'mon how nonsensical is that? I like Bronco but
he has this major flaw! Arrogance and stubbornness. He wants to prove his
actions right at the expense of the health of a player as well as putting the
team in the best position to win.
Hey Bronco beat my Aggies.
@habibI have no clue what crowd you run with but I know absolutely no one
who wanted to retain Doman. Having said that, Doman is a great guy and none of
this is personal. Too many bizarre factors played into the mediocre '12
season which should have been a ten win season. As in any disaster, heads must
role. Doman was one of those heads and only time will tell whether he has what
it takes to be a factor in the fickle world of WINNING @ football.
Also Howie...Oregon State in 2009 finished ranked #19 in the final BCS rankings,
so Mendenhall did beat a BCS team that finished the year ranked. Also, Oregon
State did finish #25 in the 2008 BCS final rankings, so whit did have 2 wins
against BCS teams that FINISHED the season ranked, but none since Alabama still.
howieYou're grasping at straws with your selective stats and
biased analysis that only proves how desperately jealous you are that BYU is a
Top 25 Legacy Program, and U aren't.
Howie:FOLLOW THE LINK...sheesh. Athlon sports named BYUs '79-'85
run as a top 25 CFB dynasty. That's what the article is referring to, NOT
BRONCO MENDENHALL. But while we're on the subject, Kyle Whittingham
has a 6-15 record against ranked opponents (29%), and a 2-8 record against BCS
ranked opponents (20%). Utah has not beaten a single team that has been ranked
in the final BCS or AP rankings since Alabama. And the only BCS team ranked at
the end of the year (BCS final rankings) that Kyle W has beaten is Alabama (that
weak 8-5 Oregon St team Utah beat by a FG in 08 wasn't BCS ranked at the
end of the year). Lends a whole new perspective to your Mendenhall bashing
doesn't it? Now do you really want me to follow that up with Utah's
record against major conferences for the last 40 years? Trust me, you don't
want me to because it only gets worse...this is why Utah isn't even
discussed as a legacy top 25 team. I know it makes you jealous and whiney and
we're sorry for that (not).
How does Bronco justify an 8-5 record last year when he states that: "He has
marveled at how the 2012 defense progressed and performed, finishing in the top
five or 10 in numerous categories". Most programs with that type of defense
typically are playing in a BCS bowl game for a share of the title. What happened
at San Jose State? Bronco has only done half of the job and needs to be
replaced if the program is to improve and move forward. Again, the BYU AD said
there would be significant changes to the program and I have seen nothing to
warrant such a comment. Change the head coach if you want a different outcome.
Sorry we don't meet your definition of legacy program. Sorry U don't
meet anyone's definition of legacy program. But I ain't
gonna lie, I get pretty tickled when national institutions talk about BYU as a
legacy program. Yeah, I like the sound of that!
Howard- look at the link and then argue with the AP Poll if you don't like
@Wiscougarfan43% for the last 40 years includes all conference
members of conferences ranking higher than the WAC/MWC. (including WASU and
Colorado)Now lets consider Bronco's record against elite
teams... If you consider ranked teams Bronco has a winning record of 36%.If you consider ranked BCS teams at the time of the game Bronco has
winning record of 22%.And if you consider BCS teams ranked at the
end of the year Bronco has a winning record of 0%.Not really the
stuff of a legacy top 25 team... is it?
Two for:"When's the last time you heard somebody claim Utah had a
top 25 legacy program? There's the difference".Why would
Utah claim themselves a top 25 legacy? They didn't accomplish and
haven't accomplished anywhere near what BYU has. Btw that claim is made by
Athlon for BYU. There's the difference...no one outside Utah's fan
base is claiming it for Utah either...again why would they? BYU has an argument
regardless of who their competition was because of their success. Utah, on the
other hand, played the same competition and didn't accomplish what BYU did,
not even close.
The comment about the legacy program is a link. Apparently, the people who are
commenting about it didn't actually follow the link. Otherwise, they might
be making more informed comments about the use of the phrase.
@ WiscougarfanWhen's the last time you heard somebody claim
Utah had a top 25 legacy program? There's the difference.@
IdahoCoogYou can't compare Utah football in 2010 and BYU
football in 2012 as a barometer for where the programs currently are.
We'll get a real sense after this season, with both teams playing very
RE: Howard S. Seriously? That's the best you can do? Very
very few programs have high winning percentages against elite competition. Of
course your slight only works depending on how you define "the big
boys." I hope you aren't including teams like Washington State and
Colorado in that category. They are no better or worst than the cupcakes
everyone else plays, regardless of their elite BCS, conference of champions
standing (dripping with sarcasm).FYI, Since Utah entered the
illustrious PAC12 they are exactly 4-10 against teams that ended the season with
winning records with two of those wins coming over the team they "have moved
on" from. The other two wins? Montana State, Georgia Tech. Of course
before 2011 Utah played the same “second tier competition” BYU did.
As you said... Not really much to be proud of.
Howard, good buddy, compare the results of BYU versus Notre Dame, and Utah
versus Notre Dame. That difference should give you a pretty good notion of where
the two teams are, and who was overwhelmed and who was not. I too questioned the
rehire of Anae, but have been converted by his new enthusiasm, his new brand of
run hard play fast offense, and I just love the hires he has brought in.
Top 25 Legacy Program?In the last 40 years BYU has a 77% winning
record when playing WAC/MWC or lower tier competition.When BYU plays
competition from upper tier conferences its winning record is 43%.If
BYU has a legacy it's based on success against second tier competition...
not success against the big boys.Not really much to be proud of.
I got to say, Dick, you are pretty brave doing and article stating what Bronco
is "thinking" without doing an interview with him. I think your
assessment is pretty good, though. I take it he won't give you the time of
day? Anyway, it is probably pretty difficult doing a article like that without a
single quote from the object of your story.But nice job, anyway.
No matter what Bronco does there will be questions. Bronco needs a good season
to clear the air of the Riley Nelson issues. This is a big turning point season
for BYU, so hopefully things can come through for them. I was really hesitant to
take on Robert Anae again, but from what I have seen, he has made positive
improvements in the offense. This should be a great season if everything comes
I don't know anyone who wonders why Doman was not retained--where does this
come from--Provo homers?