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Taking inventory of Utah's first two seasons in the Pac-12

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  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 11, 2013 10:54 p.m.

    I'm sorry, I just have to say it: we are arguing over 3 & 4 wins over teams with winning records? Who has the best record against ranked opponents when neither program has fared well lately in this regard (and im laughing at myself because im as guilty as anyone)? Seriously...these two programs better get it together this season because they are going to be facing 6-8 winning, bowl attending programs a piece this year. The mediocrity of the past 2 seasons by BOTH BYU and Utah will have to end this season if there are to be bowls for either of these programs. I can't stop laughing that we are arguing 3-4 wins against winning teams, while Bama, Florida, Georgia, Oregon, Stanford, etc are beating twice that many in one season. Both programs have to do better this year...there is very little room for error, whereas in the previous 2 years there has been much more wiggle room.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 10, 2013 5:07 p.m.

    Why are there trollers still on this story? You all still have time between your tweets to Wes Welker??

    Go Utes!!

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 10, 2013 4:49 p.m.

    Uteology

    You're so caught up in labels, you're blind to reality:

    During the Ind/PAC era

    Wins against FBS teams with winning records
    BYU 4 - Utah St(7-6), Tulsa(8-5), #16/#17 Utah St(11-2), and SDSU(9-4)
    Utah 3 - besides BYU, the only other winning team you've beaten is Georgia Tech(8-5)

    Losses to FBS teams with losing records
    BYU 1 - Utah(5-7)
    Utah 2 - ASU(6-7), Colorado(3-10)

    Instead of whining about how "tough" your PAC schedule is, U should either man up and start competing with the upper half of the PAC, or pack your bags and move to a less competitive conference.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    June 10, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    "Taking inventory of Utah's first two seasons in the Pac-12"

    Easy inventory to take; still waiting for the Utes to actually do something in the PAC 12.

  • redfeather Palo Alto, CA
    June 10, 2013 2:14 p.m.

    54-IQ

    BYU and Utah tied in points in the Duel, which only includes 12 sports; Utah simply won the tie-breaker.

    In the Directors' Cup, which measures overall national accomplishments in all men's and women's sports combined:

    As of May 30, 2013

    #47 BYU 397.00 total points
    #74 Utah 228.75 total points

    Just as in EVERY Directors' Cup for the past 20 years, BYU will finish 20 to 40 places higher the Utah.

    Someday, you may want to try venturing outside that crimson bubble on the hill.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2013 1:25 p.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT

    ... and yet BYU has lost to Utah in football for 3 straight years including a humiliating 54-10 loss at LES where they quit mid-way through the 3rd quarter AND Utah won the Duel between the two this year which is awarded on a points system over all sports. Guess you'll have to go back to Tulsa.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 10, 2013 10:16 a.m.

    BYU just had 5 players taken in the MLB draft, including one in the 3rd round. How many id utah have drafted? I'm just wondering because this article is about how utah stacks up to the rest of the pac12 and in my opinion the pac12 is the best college baseball conference.

    I would think that utah should have much more talent on their baseball team than BYU does, and as utah "fans" have been telling us for the last several years being drafted by professional leagues is the ultimate evidence of who has better talent.

    So if lowly BYU had 5 of their players drafted then utah must have had at least 10 shouldn't they? 15 maybe?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 10, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    @uteology

    What's laughable is that you can't seem to understand that utah's problem is a declining level of talent and not the change in conferences. TCU had a similar problem this last season although I htink they'll bounce right back this year.

    utah would have still been a bad team last year even if they were still in the mwc, they were just plain bad. Yes they might have been bowl elgible but it wouldn't have been much more than that, bowl elgible.

    Unfortunately for utah "fans" utah's entry into the admittedly tougher pac12 also coincided with a decrease in on field talent and some abysmal recruting decisions by the coaching staff, such as not recruiting, and not signing, any decent qb's at all for several years. Add to that the rotating o-coordinator postion, the hiring of a kid as the o-coordinator and other questionable "decisions".

    What utah has done the last 2 years is by no means simply a by product of tougher week in week out schedules, or not enough depth, although those are factors. It is much more a product of some very inept recruiting and some poor coaching.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 9, 2013 9:44 p.m.

    Uteology

    When will the incessant whining and excuses end? We've heard it for three years that the Utes would be a force to be reckoned with in the PAC10.2

    It has been extremely entertaining watching the comments of Uteville Follies Football Fanclub on this thread especially.

    Talent? With all of that Ute talent what happened against Colorado and how do you explain losing to USU and BYU beating them. And then of course how do you explain going bowl-less?

    I can't wait for another peaceful holiday season... without U.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 9, 2013 3:36 p.m.

    @LonestarRunner

    Your reliance on "bcs" and "mid-major" labels to categorize wins and losses is laughable.

    ---------

    What's laughable is your understanding of the talent level between BCS and mid-majors and even D2 teams.

    There's a huge difference in talent and that's why both Utah and TCU have struggled. But then again I wouldn't expect you to understand whose current coach has a losing record against BCS talent and has a 88% winning percentage against mid-majors.

    Utah was 33-6 the last three years in the MWC... then 8-5 and 5-7.
    TCU finished in the top 10 4 times in the final 4 seasons in the MWC... then 7-6.

    And both teams OWN BYU... we'll see how better you are playing a real schedule this year.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 9, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    Uteology

    Your reliance on "bcs" and "mid-major" labels to categorize wins and losses is laughable, especially coming from a Ute whose program has done absolutely NOTHING since becoming a "bcs".

    Frankly, labels are meaningless. It's what you do on the field that counts towards Top 25 rankings.

    During the Independent/PAC era:

    AP/Coaches Top 25 Rankings
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    Sagarin Rankings
    BYU #34, #26
    Utah #39, #61

    Bowl Games
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

    It's laughable that you have to slice and dice records to make it appear that Utah has actually achieved something more than BYU, when in reality, the final rankings speak for themselves.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 9, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    @Swoop

    According to the “on-field results data” the only thing you’re MUCH better than at is beating WAC-lite teams. That is not an opinion but a fact:

    vs. BCS teams:
    Utah 9-11 (.450)
    BYU 4-5 (.444)
    Wins: Ol Miss (2-9), Wazzu (3-9), OSU (3-9), GTech (7-7)


    vs. Mid-Major teams:
    Utah 2-1 (.666)
    BYU 12-2 (.875)
    Wins: New Mexico (2), Idaho (2), Hawaii (2), USU (2), SJS, SDSU, Tulsa, and CFU

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2013 11:22 p.m.

    Uteology

    The on-field results data shows that Utah's recruiting data is over hyped - U aren't even good enough to qualify for a bowl anymore.

    Despite your frantic and emotional spin,

    2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) bowl winner is MUCH better than unranked/#61 Utah(5-7) bowl no show

    2011 #25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) is MUCH better than unranked/#39 Utah(8-5) loser to 10-loss Colo

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2013 11:16 p.m.

    2fer

    "I didn't realize how lopsided things had become. I sure hope I live to see the day when Utah climbs out of that seemingly insurmountable deficit to even up the series record..."

    Don't kid yourself; with that train wreck of a program U have on the hill, the deficit is insurmountable.

    BYU owns U in basketball!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 8, 2013 10:43 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    BYU is 2-3 vs PAC-12 over the last two years, wins are over 3 win teams. BYU has a losing record under Bronco vs BCS teams. The biggest win was over 8-5 Oregon State in 2009, your best team since 1996. Since then your biggest win has been over 7-7 Georgia Tech. In 2011 you had a 3 game schedule and you lost to all three teams (Texas, Utah, and TCU).

    That's comparable to what Utah has done over the same period, the difference head-to-head we OWN you.

    Saying you can compete in the PAC-12 when your team is OWNED by Utah and TCU who have struggled is ridiculous.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 8, 2013 10:31 p.m.

    @wayfarer

    "Sorry Utes. Hate to be the bearer of hard data. The gold standard for measuring the health of college athletics is the Director's Cup. ... Worse, Utah's 2013 academic ranking in US News is 125. Down from 2012. Again, bottom third of the PAC 12 conference.

    Ute fans need to ask themselves how long they will continue to support their athletic programs (football) when they year in and year out finish in the bottom third. Pinch yourselves all you want but the data does not support Hill's ludicrous pipe dream that Utah will be competing regularly for athletic titles in any sport."

    --------

    So give up and go back to the MWC? Talk about "ludicrous pipe dream" from a Cougar.


    The recruiting "data" shows Utah is the flagship football program in the State and needs to develop depth to compete against the PAC-12. Basketball might be headed that way, we'll see over the next two years.

    I supported the Utes through the 80s, compared to where we were I for one think we're headed in the right direction.

    Go UTES!!

  • Frantic & Emotional philadelphia , PA
    June 8, 2013 3:07 p.m.

    I think ute fans should just change the subject on this one. It's not BYU fan's fault that your football and basketball programs stink and are in decline. You should direct your anger at Dr Hill.

    Maybe instead you can talk about Skiing or Women's Gymnastics?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 8, 2013 1:48 p.m.

    "BYU also leads the series 129-125"

    I didn't realize how lopsided things had become. I sure hope I live to see the day when Utah climbs out of that seemingly insurmountable deficit to even up the series record...

  • Cougars - Wise Older Brothers Anaheim, CA
    June 8, 2013 9:10 a.m.

    U 90

    "So you are now relying on "The Helms Foundation" to determine the national champ. What about your neighbor Barney, he's pretty credible, we ought to see what he thinks. Good grief."

    The Helms Athletic Foundation was founded in 1936 by Bill Schroeder and Paul Helms and based in Los Angeles. It put together a panel of experts to select National Champion teams and make All-America team selections in a number of college sports including football and basketball. The panel met annually to vote on a National Champion until 1982 and retroactively ranked football teams dating back to 1883 and basketball back to 1901. The Helms Foundation also operated a Hall of Fame for both college sports.

    The Helms Foundation is a well-respected national organization.

    Your neighbor Barney is a crimson-glasses wearing Ute fan.

    It's laughable how Ute fans define "relevant" history: everything from 2005 to the beginning of time for basketball; nothing before 2004 for football.

    Utah does have an edge overall in basketball, but unlike Utah football, at least BYU basketball has some pre-2004 history worth talking about.

    2 NIT Championships
    1 John Wooden Award Winner

    BYU also leads the series 129-125

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 8, 2013 1:21 a.m.

    Snack,

    The conversation was never about the last 10 years. I freely admit Utah has been lacking with only three trips to the NCAA over that span. BYU has been better over the past 10.

    The reason I was referencing Utah's full tournament history is because your buddy Sports Fan was inferring that Utah's historical tournament performance was not really that impressive. I'm simply pointing out that the Utes have actually done quite well and much better than BYU.

    I admit BYU is better last 10. Are you man enough to admit that Utah is in an entirely different class than BYU all-time?

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 8, 2013 1:00 a.m.

    Truth, my bad I've corrected the numbers below. Makes a big difference:

    Years with 2 NCAA Tourny wins
    10 for Utah 44, 61, 66, 81, 83, 91, 96, 97, 98, 05
    2 for BYU 81, 11

    Years with 3 NCAA Tourny wins
    4 for Utah 44, 61, 97, 98
    1 for BYU 81

    Years with 5 NCAA Tourny wins
    one for Utah 98
    zero for BYU

    So you are now relying on "The Helms Foundation" to determine the national champ. What about your neighbor Barney, he's pretty credible, we ought to see what he thinks. Good grief.

    It's this simple. The winner of the NIT tourny was the consensus NC through 1949. Then there was a game fixing scandal in 49-50 which caused all of the top teams to move away from the NIT to the NCAA tourny. Beginning in 1951 the winner of the NCAA tourny was the consensus NC. Which means Utah's 1944 NCAA win was not an NC but the 1947 NIT win was.

    The Helms Foundation.... good one.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 7, 2013 11:57 p.m.

    Azute1 said...

    "It's interesting that byu fans point to UTAH's PAC-12 record in a vain-attempt to ridicule them."

    The Ute meltdown continues.

    There's nothing vain about the truth. I can see it's kind of hard being a sad Ute and having an embarrassing record these days and not realizing that U started the whole process in the first place. Let me explain...

    The real problem Ute fans have is knowing most of them set this whole joke up three years ago by hyping their invite and at the same time taunting and ridiculing BYU's non-invitation to a conference and then its subsequent foray into independence.

    The only thing many BYU fans said contrary to all of this hype was that they felt the Utes would not match up and compete well.

    Three years later...

    The Ute Pac12 record stands on its own merits. Poignant, ironic and pretty funny at the same time.

    Going bowl-less was last year's punch line. (rim-shot please... bam...)

    "vain-attempt"??? Yeah, sure, uh-huh, whatever.

    Today's increased level of excuse making and spin is unprecedented.

    Obviously 'inventory' shortage is a touchy subject in Uteville. LOL

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 7, 2013 6:05 p.m.

    U 90

    You left a few out; here, let me help you.

    Number of NCAA tournament wins since Bogut, the last remnant of the Majerus era, left in 2005:
    BYU FOUR
    Utah ZERO

    Number of NCAA Sweet Sixteens since 2005:
    BYU one
    Utah none

    Number of NCAA Tournaments since 2005:
    BYU six
    Utah one

    Number of 20+ win seasons 2005:
    BYU eight
    Utah one

    Face it, your basketball program hasn't been relevant in almost a decade.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2013 5:51 p.m.

    U 90

    Not surprisingly, your "facts" are incorrect.

    In 1981, BYU beat #11-seed Princeton 60-51, #3 UCLA 78-55, and #2 Notre Dame 51-50, before losing to Ralph Sampson's #1-seed Virginia 74-60.

    Utah's 1947 NIT championship has never been officially recognized as a national championship by anybody except Utah fans.

    In 1944, the Helms Athletic Foundation selected Army(15-0) as national champion, not Utah(6-1).

    In 1947, the Helms Athletic Foundation selected Holy Cross(27-3) as national champion, not Utah(19-5).

    Utah had a great year in 1998, but as usual, lost to Kentucky in the tournament.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 7, 2013 4:06 p.m.

    @SportsFan "The truth is, the Utes have only ever won 3+ games in the same NCAA tournament 3 times (1944, 1997 and 1998), and the 1944 tournament was the absolutes weakest tournament in NCAA history.

    Years with 2 NCAA Tourny wins
    Utah 44, 61, 66, 81, 83, 91, 96, 97, 98, 05
    BYU 81, 11

    Years with 3 NCAA Tourny wins
    Utah 44, 61, 97, 98
    BYU never

    Years with 5 NCAA Tourny wins
    Utah 98
    BYU never

    By the way, the national championship I was referring to in an earlier post was the 1947 NIT which was the strongest field of teams that year.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    June 7, 2013 3:21 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    What's really interesting that Utah fans are so embarrassed by their PAC 12 record, they don't even want to talk about it.

    Here's a summary:

    2011 4-5 8th; 2012 3-6 9th; 7-11 overall with not a single win over a PAC 12 foe with a winning record, 0 for 8, and 2 losses to PAC 12 teams with losing records, including 10-loss Colorado, one of the worst teams in the country.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 7, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    "Not even being good enough to play in a bowl is what's really embarrassing."

    Yeah, 1st missed bowl game since '02 hardly, by merely 1 game, hardly constitutes a trend. LOL

    During this current BCS Era, both UTAH/byu have reached 11 bowl games. While 2X BCS Bowling/WINNING UTAH is a resounding 10-1, byu has struggled mightily to even stay above .500 at 6-5.

    "Utah winning the one game battle, doesn't change the fact that BYU has won the season-long war 5 of the last 8 seasons, including both seasons during the Independent/PAC 12 era."

    You forgot to mention the qualifier, namely, that byu has played against a weaker SOS, annually.

    Since byu rarely ever beats a good team, they've absolutely needed the likes of bottom-feeders Weber State, Hawaii, Idaho, Idaho State, NMSU, etc., in order to ensure they'd qualify for bowl-eligibility, in the first place. I'm 100% certain, SJSU was also scheduled for this same, identical reason and last year they unexpectedly happened to be a good team which, per 99.99% of the time occurs when byu plays against a good team, naturally resulted in a loss.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 7, 2013 2:53 p.m.

    [Cont'd]--

    Not to mention, UTAH had JWIV out, both safeties and myriad others. Having an banged-up QB is hardly the equal of this. UTAH had a commanding lead and just simply removed foot from pedal, up 24-7 in the 4th-QTR.

    The play of the game, however, involved a FORCED TO by UTAH. byu fans insist the snap over rn's head resulting in ML's fumble-return for a TD was purely the result of a fluke, unforced mental-error on the part of byu's C.

    Not so fast. If one were to review the footage, one would immediately see what actually occurred. Lined-up directly over C was none other than Star Lotulelei, himself. I observed this same occurrence take place, game-in and game-out, although it typically resulted in a false-start. byu's C was terrified, scared to death, actually, of what was about to occur to him at the hands of this BEAST lined-up directly in front of him. His focus immediately left his primary-responsibility of cleanly snapping the ball to rn and, instead, rested exclusively upon how he could possibly survive Star and live to play yet another down.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 7, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    "Losing in the fashion BYU lost in 2011, mostly on self-inflicted meltdowns, was embarrassing. Losing two games on the final play of the game on a blocked FG and a FG that hit the upright, after out playing the Utes, was disappointing, but hardly embarrassing."

    The self-inflicted "meltdowns" occurred on UTAH's side, NOT on byu's. Among others, up 24-7 in the 4th-QTR, UTAH enabled byu to drive down the field and score a TD by committing 2 unforced PFs. During byu's final-drive, UTAH had byu down to 4th-and-long and their 2 RESERVE safeties committed a Football 101 error in allowing byu WR to get behind them on a 47-YD 1st-down play. Were our 2 FR All-America safeties in the game, instead, byu WR NEVER gets behind, guaranteed.

    Per the final moments in concluding the game, byu should never have been given the 2nd FG-Attempt, per the rule cited by the ref. He referenced "non-participants" on the field [i.e., UTAH-Fans]. The closest "non-participants" to the football/Falslev ON the field were none other than bronco mendenhall and others from byu's sideline. Offsetting-penalties--Game over.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 7, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    It's interesting that byu fans point to UTAH's PAC-12 record in a vain-attempt to ridicule them, yet when byu's record against the 5 PAC-12 teams they've played over the same 2-year period-of-time is exposed, they then immediately tangent-off and discuss what byu did against PAC-10 teams, PRIOR to UTAH's entry into the conference, etc. 2 entirely different conversations, either of which we UTAH fans are happy to discuss.

    Per this particular conversation, in getting to their 2-3 record against The PAC-12, byu has wins against 2 teams which finished at the bottom of the conference and got absolutely brutally curb-stomped at home against the only 2 teams which finished their season with a winning record. Also, they're 0-2 against UTAH during this same stretch.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    June 7, 2013 1:52 p.m.

    GO_COUGARS!

    Losing in the fashion BYU lost in 2011, mostly on self-inflicted meltdowns, was embarrassing. Losing two games on the final play of the game on a blocked FG and a FG that hit the upright, after out playing the Utes, was disappointing, but hardly embarrassing.

    Not even being good enough to play in a bowl is what's really embarrassing.

    Utah winning the one game battle, doesn't change the fact that BYU has won the season-long war 5 of the last 8 seasons, including both seasons during the Independent/PAC 12 era.

    One game doesn't not a season make.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    June 7, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    2fer

    "...how do we know that BYU would have beat OSU, UCLA, WSU (in the snow) or Arizona?"

    We don't, just like we don't know how Utah would have fared against BYU's schedule.

    What we do know is that Bronco is 8-7 versus PAC 10/12 teams, with winning records versus 3 of the 4 teams Utah beat - OSU(2-1), UCLA(2-1), Arizona(1-2), WSU(1-0) - plus a winning record versus Washington(2-0).

    So it's not at all unlikely that BYU could have finished 6-3 in the PAC 12 in 2011, easily good enough to win the South Division. Don't forget, the game with Utah would have been a non-conference game if BYU and Utah had switched schedules.

    Let's also not forget that, unlike Kyle, Bronco seldom loses to bad teams.

    During his 8 seasons at BYU, Bronco has only lost to four teams with losing records - 2012 Utah(5-7), 2010 Utah State(4-8), 2007 UCLA(6-7), a team BYU beat in the Las Vegas Bowl later that same year, and 2005 SDSU(5-7), Bronco's first year of rebuilding after Crowton's disaster.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 7, 2013 1:27 p.m.

    @2 fer

    "but how do we know that BYU would have beat OSU, UCLA, WSU (in the snow) or Arizona?"

    Well considering BYU did beat osu that season we can go ahead and say we do know that they would have won that one. As for the others, well there is no way to know for sure but I would say it's likely. None of those teams was particularly good and the last time BYU played any of them they beat them all pretty soundly I think. It is pretty easy to say BYU would have won all the pac12 games utah won that year considering BYU has had no trouble with any of those teams recently and they have played all of them.

    Trying to claim BYU's overall record against pac 12 temas is not really relevent, although if you want to throw cal into the mix, a team utah got worked by that season, well BYU has worked them over pretty good 3 times in the last decade so head to head the advantage goes to BYU.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 7, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    4) see answer to number 3

    5) "Beautiful campus" - I do agree that the university of utah is a very nice campus so the campus is definately not a negative, but is it anymore beautiful than the other campuses in the pac12? Not really, we are talking about some very nice schools here, so while it is not a detriment it is not an advantage either.

    7) "medical school, dental school, research institution" - almost all of the pac12 schools have those same things and in most cases are more highly though of than utah is. Those things are not a detriment but they are certianly no advantage over the rest of the pac12.

    8)"On campus stadium-nice" it is a nice stadium but so are many of the others in the pac12. Once again the stadium is no detriment but it is no advantage either.

    9) "the muss" - That is certainly up for debate but I'll give you that one, it is a nice advantage when other teams play at utah to have that rabid group making noise.

    You skipped #6 but I just don't see how those things are "advantages' for utah over the rest of the pac12.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 7, 2013 1:12 p.m.

    @Uteanymous

    "You do realize, don't you, that minimizing the only team of any consequence that U beat in 2012 doesn't do anything to improve your standing?"

    Good point. What happens when you minimize a team that beats you, repeatedly?

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 7, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    snack wac

    "getting picked to be the whipping boy of the Pac 12"

    Yeah you tell em! The only thing more embarrassing would be being that whipping boy's whipping boy, year after year after year, growing more bitter and and obsessive and ironically following all of the news about a team you're claiming is irrelevant.

    Hopefully no one would notice the irony.

    GO COUGARS!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 7, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    I need to apologize for getting side tracked on this, I asked a question and wanted a sincere asnwer and Who am I sir? gave me a reasonable answer and he deserved a better response from me. I really am interested in why utah fans think utah is going to be consistently competitive in the pac12 since I do not think they will be.

    So here is a better response to Who am I sir's points.

    1) "Climate" - this is do not agree with, I do not think our climate is favorbable to the climates on the west coast and arizona. In some sports like baseball and softball it is a huge detriment.

    2)"City" - once again I disagree. SLC is a nice city but in the eyes of most kids out there it does not stack up to LA, Phoenix, Seattle, etc.

    3) "natural diversification" - disagree again. There might be a few, a very few, athletes that care about national parks or hunting but it isn't many. I just don't think those things are a draw although those are definately things I like about living here.

    continued

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 7, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    twofer

    "Which is why Princeton football is held is such high regard. 28 national titles is why they are still a power team today...."

    LOL are your desperate sensationalism.

    Fans and recruits have heard of Steve Young, Jim McMahon, Ty Detmer and other great players who played during BYU's National Championship era, which is mentioned frequently every time a BYU game is nationally broadcast.

    NOBODY except Ivy League groupies remembers any specifics about the 1800's era Ivy League national championships except that they were part of the early history of college football.

    The overall quality of Utah's schedule was only marginally better than BYU's, but the overall quality of Utah's results were far below BYU's. Playing a slightly tougher schedule doesn't mean anything if you don't WIN!

    BYU beat #16/#17 Utah State, ACC division champ Georgia Tech, and MWC tri-champ SDSU, and BYU was very competitive in losing to 3 Top 25 teams on the road by a total of 10 points.

    Who of any consequence did U beat in 2012?

    You do realize, don't you, that minimizing the only team of any consequence that U beat in 2012 doesn't do anything to improve your standing?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    @ scott

    It's easy to say BYU wouldn't have blown the game against CU, but how do we know that BYU would have beat OSU, UCLA, WSU (in the snow) or Arizona? We'll never know, but judging by BYu's recent record against PAC-12 teams I would say it is pretty unlikely they would be the South Division champs.

    BYU didn't lose to USU last year, but BYU didn't play the Aggies in Logan either. The game was extremely close in Provo. I would bet if BYU was on the road the Aggies would have pull out a close one, just like they did against the Utes.

    Lastly, no Utah's record has not improved. But the program as a whole has gotten much stronger from a facilities, recruiting, and a coaching perspective. Hopefully those improvements will manifest themselves on the field this year in the way of some wins.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 7, 2013 12:38 p.m.

    SG in SLC

    "a school's committment[sic] to its overall athletic program is a factor"

    What kind of commitment are you talking about? The Utes rank near the bottom of the PAC in the Directors Cup standings, which measures overall success across all sports, men's and women's.

    I can just see the puzzled look on the face of a Utah football or basketball recruit when the Utah recruiter mentions that Utah has great coed skiing and women's gymnastics programs? He'll probably want to know how Utah's synchronized swimming team is doing as well.

    Where are Utah's nationally relevant men's teams - football, basketball, baseball, track & field, swimming, and volleyball - sports in which PAC 12 teams have excelled?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    @ Pheonix

    "The Utes have been owned by WAC/MWC Boise State and were destroyed by TCU in their last two meetings."

    This is awkward: BYU is 0-3 all-time against Boise and has lost 4 in a row to TCU by an average margin of 23 points...

    "but being a former National Champion and Heisman Trophy winning program will ALWAYS resonate with fans."

    Which is why Princeton football is held is such high regard. 28 national titles is why they are still a power team today....

    @ talkinsports

    "LOL! BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012; Utah only played TWO. Please explain how only playing TWO ranked teams is more challenging than playing FIVE."

    You know the season is 12 games long, right? The overall quality of Utah's opponents were higher week in and week out. Evidenced by the fact that Utah's SOS was stronger. BYU played 5 teams ranked top 25, but they also played 5 ranked above 100. 4 (a third of the season) of those finished ranked higher than 150. Those are guaranteed wins that do not drain and wear on teams like playing a full slate of quality teams does.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2013 11:36 a.m.

    @phantomblade
    "Since we're talking football and basketball recruiting here, Utah's skiing and women's gymnastics championships are meaningless"

    And by "meaningless", I assume you mean "less relevant (but not irrelevant)", because when it comes to football and basketball recruiting, a school's committment to its overall athletic program is a factor.

    Does it really make any difference whether or not the U has its own dedicated ballpark or rents the local Triple-A PCL field? Actually, it probably does make a difference, because a dedicated field shoehorned into the prime real estate on the hill would almost certainly be inferior (and middle of the PAC), so Spring Mobile Park gives the U a bigger bang for its baseball program buck -- a fact that would not be lost on potential recruits.

    Though there is currently no timetable or specific details, the U is exploring options regarding RES expansion.

  • wayfarer Clearfield, UT
    June 7, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    Sorry Utes. Hate to be the bearer of hard data. The gold standard for measuring the health of college athletics is the Director's Cup. Once again, Utah will rank 10th or 11th in the PAC 12 conference when the final results are announced on June 14th.(74th nationally)

    Worse, Utah's 2013 academic ranking in US News is 125. Down from 2012. Again, bottom third of the PAC 12 conference. Other PAC 12 schools are also "research" institutions but that hasn't hurt their ranking. Where is the prestige of belonging to an elite academic conference when you are bringing up the rear?

    Ute fans need to ask themselves how long they will continue to support their athletic programs (football) when they year in and year out finish in the bottom third. Pinch yourselves all you want but the data does not support Hill's ludicrous pipe dream that Utah will be competing regularly for athletic titles in any sport.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    June 7, 2013 11:26 a.m.

    @SG in SLC
    "Utah's Huntsman Center is the largest basketball arena in the PAC-12."

    Actually this works against you in a big way when the seating capacity is 15,000+ and you only get a few thousand showing up for games. Having a large capacity and not being able to fill it looks bad for your program.

    Ute fans might knock WCC venues but there's a monumental difference when you go to the hostile environment of Gonzaga with it's raucous student crowd vs playing in the relative public library that is the HC. Gonzaga's arena might only hold 6,000+ but they light that joint up. Utah could learn a thing or two.

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 7, 2013 10:25 a.m.

    SG in SLC

    "Utah has an overall NCAA team championships history advantage over Arizona, Washington, Oregon State, and Washington State."

    Since we're talking football and basketball recruiting here, Utah's skiing and women's gymnastics championships are meaningless

    "Utah's baseball field (Spring Mobile Ballpark) is by far the largest in the PAC-12 (and arguably has the best view)."

    It's not even Utah's baseball field, is it? U simply rent it from the Bees.

    "Utah has one of the smallest football stadiums in the PAC-12,"

    The expansion may never happen or be needed. The shine of Utah's newly minted PAC membership won't last forever and with a few more 5-7 seasons with no bowls, RES will look just like the HC, a vast sea of empty red chairs.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    June 7, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    @Duckhunter

    I know I am late to the party, but let's talk Utah’s advantages.

    You make it sound as though the University of Utah is dead-last overall in the PAC-12, but that's not quite so...

    Utah has a location/demographics advantage over Colorado (Boulder), Oregon (Eugene), Oregon State (Corvallis), and Washington (Pullman).

    Utah has a school size (enrollment) advantage over Colorado, Oregon State, Oregon, Washington State, and Stanford.

    Utah has an overall NCAA team championships history advantage over Arizona, Washington, Oregon State, and Washington State.

    Utah's Huntsman Center is the largest basketball arena in the PAC-12.

    Utah's baseball field (Spring Mobile Ballpark) is by far the largest in the PAC-12 (and arguably has the best view).

    Utah ranks in the middle of the PAC-12 in freshman retention rate and average SAT scores.

    On the other hand, Utah has one of the smallest football stadiums in the PAC-12, but contrary to your assertion, that is something that they could (and almost certainly will) address.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 7, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    BB recovery? Utes might make a run for something around mid-pac but again this is wishful thinking and not happening this year either.

    In three years we've gone from this :) to this :{ and now to this :( along with an increase of excuses.

    Try to accept it with less whining.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    June 7, 2013 9:35 a.m.

    U 90

    Nice, inconsistent sugar coating.

    If, Utah's football team has only had one down year since 2002, then Utah's basketball team has only had one up year since 2005.

    KW won't last long if he starts stringing together seasons like his supposedly up year in 2005.

    All of those Sweet Sixteens, Elite Eights, etc., sound impressive until you dig a little deeper to discover that there were so few teams in most of those tournaments, that the Utes were either seeded into Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight or only had to win one game to reach that level.

    The truth is, the Utes have only ever won 3+ games in the same NCAA tournament 3 times (1944, 1997 and 1998), and the 1944 tournament was the absolutes weakest tournament in NCAA history.

    btw, not many fans would call this "improvement", but you're welcome to go on believing that if it helps you sleep at night.

    2011 13-18 RPI 123
    2012 6-25 RPI 270
    2013 15-18 RPI 158

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 7, 2013 8:48 a.m.

    sammy,

    The recovery I was speaking of was basketball. Why are you responding to that with football smack? Try to keep up.

    Regarding football, Utah's had one down year (5-7) since 2002. No recovery needed there, just regroup and rebuild. I wish BYU the best in football in 2013 with their first decent schedule in a very long time. In fact this could be BYU's toughest schedule ever.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 7, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    u90

    Don't fool yourself. There won't be much of a recovery. Unless of course if winning barely enough games to qualify for the signature bowl tie-in games for 6th and 7th place is the epitome of accomplishment.

    Uncle Larry did a great thing by getting the Kraft Fight Hunger and New Mexico bowls for his conference.

    That's got to bring a smile to both Ute and BYU fans!

    Happy Happy Happy

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 7, 2013 12:58 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    That was a fun comment.

    What has been a sheer delight in my life is seeing many Ute fans that slobbered over themselves for the invitation to the PAC10 and in 3 short years going to this...

    "They make jokes about Utah struggling..." LOL

    "Utah has improved from its Mountain West days while BYU has not." Delusional spin.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 6, 2013 11:29 p.m.

    Lonestar,

    Programs go in cycles. Utah is currently in a 4 year post season drought with a 48-68 record. It wasn't too long ago that BYU also had a 4 year drought going 37-75. I'm glad BYU recovered, Utah will recover as well.... there's too much tradition to not recover.

    11 Sweet Sixteens
    8 Elite Eights
    2 final Fours
    2 NCAA Championship games
    1 National Championship (47 NIT)

  • scott Alpine, UT
    June 6, 2013 11:00 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    "They make jokes about Utah struggling, while knowing full well that BYU would be in a worse position."

    I love how Utah fans just make stuff up to excuse Utah's own miserable failures.

    BYU wouldn't have blown a gift-wrapped PAC 12 South in 2011 by losing to one of the worst teams in the country on their home field.

    BYU didn't lose to Utah State in 2012 to be denied any hope of playing in a bowl game.

    "Utah has improved from its Mountain West days while BYU has not."

    From #23 10-3 to #39 8-5 to #61 5-7 - wow, that's some, um, "improvement".

    The stress of their quickly disintegrating program is obviously taking it's toll on our friends from the hill.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 6, 2013 10:31 p.m.

    Articles like this one make the Cougar faithful ever thankful that they didn't get taken by a major conference. They make jokes about Utah struggling, while knowing full well that BYU would be in a worse position. Utah has improved from its Mountain West days while BYU has not. Where are those dozens of talented recruits that would flock to the program for a chance to play on late night ESPN? Remember to text Tom Holmoe and thank him for walking away from that Big 12 invitation that was never extended.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    June 6, 2013 10:07 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    LOL at your delusional whiny spin!

    During the Dave Rose era

    BYU 209-66(76%), 4-6 in the NCAA, 3-2 in the NIT, 8 straight 20+ win seasons, 4 conference championships, National Player of the Year

    Utah 116-137(46%), 0-1 in the NCAA, 6 losing seasons, 1 conference championship

    Dave Rose is just getting started, while Utah's glory days ended with Bogut's departure to the NBA.

    And, despite your delusional spin that absolutely nobody besides you believes...

    There's a HUGE difference between
    being outscored by almost 20 points in the 2nd half in a NINE point 78-69 loss
    and
    losing by 2 points on a tip-in at the buzzer in what is almost universally described as THE BIGGEST UPSET in NCAA tournament history.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 10:04 p.m.

    @carson

    I can tell it really bothers you. That is good. The truth is utah has been nothing short of abysmal in just about every sport since joining the pac12 and despite me asking about 20 times not on of the utah "fans" around here can give me any reason why utah will ever be any more than they currently are, and that is not very good.

    I do enjoy the backpeddling we get to read now days, it is a refreshing change from the stuff you guys were posting two years ago and again last year. Before last season, oh about this exact same time last year, utah "fans" were on here predicting "undefeated", "national championship", "rose bowl", "pac 12 championship game", "pac12 south champs", and other delusional stuff. It's all there to read, you can go back and read them, they were very prolific.

    But instead what we witnessed was a 2nd straight losing pac12 record, and overall losing season, no bowl game, and then guys like azute whining about SOS while trying to wear it as a badge of honor.

    In otherwords this is some pretty fun stuff.

    LOL!

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    June 6, 2013 9:07 p.m.

    Why is it that some Utah fans live on these boards whining about all things BYU, but as soon as a BYU fan makes a comment that exposes the silly argument, the Utah fan immediately starts shooting the messengers instead of admitting the foolishness of the hill dwellers original argument?

    Except for getting a nice paycheck, what good is being in the PAC, if you're nothing but a door mat?

    Just like the 80's, it's becoming abundantly clear that BYU has once again become Utah's bowl game.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    June 6, 2013 8:53 p.m.

    Why is it that some of BYU's fans live on these boards waiting for the next post, so they can be the first to run down everything they can think of concerning The University of Utah. It would be their Utes jealously and inferiority complexs. Not getting the Invite has really tipped some of them over. Yeppers that's it. LOL!

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    June 6, 2013 8:03 p.m.

    @Magna Ute fan
    "Did some Ute fans claim that Utah was going to dominate the PAC12? I'm sure many did. Some bought into the hype and excitement a little too much"

    I'll cut you slack on the Rose Bowl predictions in 2011.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    June 6, 2013 7:56 p.m.

    wow....that's pretty depressing reading. When I read that story out loud to my children they cried worse than they do when we watch NatGeo and see the pride of Lions rip into and devour a baby Wildebeest.

    Seeing the utes get ripped into and devoured by the beasts of the Pac12 has been pretty graphic these past 2 yrs. If they ever get a game on a "national" TV channel that the majority of regular people get and can watch, I'd hope that they'll put warning labels for families with young children so we don't expose them to all that graphic blood, carnage and violence. It gives my kids nightmares, I can't imagine what it does to the minds of children of poor ute fans who have to watch it week after week after week after week after week....brrrr.

    Well, most experts said the utes would become the next Washington St and it sounds like they were right. Only delusional ute fans thought they'd be winning the Pac12 and going to a Rose Bowl.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    June 6, 2013 7:12 p.m.

    Carson

    Jealous of what?

    Not being good enough to be ranked and not even being good enough to play in a bowl?

    If that's your definition of success, enjoy that little PAC 12 sticker in your back window. You've become college football's shining example of the Peter Principle.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    June 6, 2013 7:04 p.m.

    Papa Smurf UTE

    "They [Utah] wanted to challenge themselves, which they have, & it's turned out to be tough."

    LOL! BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012; Utah only played TWO. Please explain how only playing TWO ranked teams is more challenging than playing FIVE.

    With the exception of ur/#25 BYU in 2011, the Utes haven't beaten a ranked team since 2008. Against ranked teams since 2008, the Utes are 1-8. Against teams ranked in both polls, the Utes are winless.

    Meanwhile, supposedly timid BYU has played TWELVE Top 25 teams since 2008, winning games against #18/#18 Utah and #16/#17 Utah State.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 6, 2013 6:37 p.m.

    smurf

    When was the last time the Utes won a "big" game?

    The sad truth is you can't even beat WAC and 10-loss teams anymore.

    The Utes have been owned by WAC/MWC Boise State and were destroyed by TCU in their last two meetings.

    Utah has been in steady decline since 2008, and Utah's twin flash-in-the-pan seasons are quickly fading into the soon to be forgotten past.

    10 years from now, "bcs" won't mean anything to the next generation of college sports fans, but being a former National Champion and Heisman Trophy winning program will ALWAYS resonate with fans.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    June 6, 2013 6:24 p.m.

    Give it a rest Ducky, everyone can see how jealous and obsessed over everything Utah.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    June 6, 2013 6:16 p.m.

    KG: "Let the money sink in, let the new facilities work their magic on recruits and if Utah has a four- or five-year bowl drought, then you can open up discussions."

    If Utah has a four- or five-year bowl drought, KW will be gone and you'll be able to hear the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth from the kids on the hill all the way to Provo.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    June 6, 2013 5:39 p.m.

    Ducky, Ducky, Ducky,

    When will you ever get over the fact that your weak team from Provostan was not invited to the Pac 12, & cannot win the Big Games as you call it? If the Utes cannot win the big games, then I have no idea what Byu is doing. They have beat 6 or 7 teams since 2009 that finished the year .500 or better & 2 of those were vs Utah St, & one in 09 against the Utes. Your weak team lost to San Jose St last year. Get over it, & stop being jealous of what the Utes have.

    Edgrady,

    The Utes were one of the big fish in a little pond. They along with TCU went to 2 BCS games, & were the Original BCS busters, & at the time of them joining the Pac 12 had the best record & most wins vs BCS teams. So they have been there & done that. They wanted to challenge themselves, which they have, & it's turned out to be tough. I would rather challenge myself in the Pac 12 than do what Byu did & run away from a conference to play an Indy WAC schedule with 6-8 built in wins each year.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    June 6, 2013 4:51 p.m.

    Taking inventory of Utah's first two seasons in the Pac-12:

    At or near the bottom of the conference in nearly every sport except W-GYM, just as expected. What Utah fans wishfully characterize as only a period of adjustment is really just the new norm for the Utes.

    Sure, the Utes may occasionally rise to the upper half of the conference for a year or two, but the Utes will never be perennial conference favorites in any sport other than W-GYM. They never were in the WAC or MWC, so its baffling why any Utah fan would expect anything different in the PAC.

    Get used to living in the reflected light of more accomplished programs.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    @u90

    Here is what I actually said.

    "They don't have any advantages over any other school in the conference with the possible exception of wsu, that's it. In every other criteria they are in an inferior postion to everyone elese in the pac12. Every other school has more money, more fans, more population, better climate, better city (at least in the eyes of most recruits), more prestige, better legacy, better name brand, better facilities, better everything."

    Notice the "possible exception of wsu"?

    So now you are grasping for straws.

    I do give you credit though, you appear to be the only utah "fan" on here that is willing to admit utah will never be consistently competitive in the pac12.

    Kudo's on the hoesty but you've probably mad eyourself a paria amongst utah "fans".

    p.s. I grew up in Northern California, San Jose specifically, so you can try to pin it on Quimby Oak Jr. High. LOL! Oh and there is no such thing as Alpine Middle School. Did you pass google class at utah?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 4:40 p.m.

    @azute

    I don't know who he is and I don't care. But the fact you think that some sports reporter voicing an opinion is evidence of anything say's plenty.

    LOL!

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 6, 2013 4:04 p.m.

    duck,

    First you said, "Every other school has... better climate, better city"

    Then you said, "I didn't say "they (city) are all nicer". Major failure on your part.... although I did exempt wsu and spokane.

    Your first major fail is your contradicting statement noted above. Your second fail is that Spokane is not home to WSU... that would be Pullman, WA. Gonzaga is located in Spokane... pass geography at Alpine middle school did you?

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 6, 2013 3:44 p.m.

    Chewbacca

    "We know all about your dusty trophies from 30 years ago."

    BYU actually takes very good care of their trophies, none of them are dusty.

    They're not all from the 30 years ago either:

    Heisman 1990
    Sammy Baugh 1990
    Davey O'Brien 1990, 1991, 1996
    Doak Walker 2001

    Of course, even "dusty" trophies are better than empty, dusty shelves

    btw, what kind of trophy do you get for being picked to be a perennial whipping boy for the PAC?

    oh yeah, U get to attach a nifty little PAC 12 sticker to your rear window and pretend it makes U "special".

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 6, 2013 3:44 p.m.

    Naval Vet: Why are you even trying to talk to them in turns of what is "relevant"? That is a word that doesn't exist in Utah County!

    Go Utes!!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 6, 2013 3:35 p.m.

    Just the FAX:

    "During the last half century, however, BYU owns U...in head-to-head 29-21"

    Last half century? Wow! That was pretty desperate of you. Especially since the majority of those wins were accomplished before 1985. Those were the Reagan years. Now Reagan is dead, and so is your program. Utah owns the last QUARTER century (14-11), so clearly, we've retaken the series, and are presently the more relevant team.

  • UtahUte91 Sandy, UT
    June 6, 2013 3:24 p.m.

    Just the FAX

    Just owning BYU is enough.

  • Chewbacca Magna, UT
    June 6, 2013 3:21 p.m.

    Just the Fax-

    We know all about your dusty trophies from 30 years ago. All those trophies and a buck fifty will get you a Big Gulp at 7-11. But, they haven't gotten you into a single BCS bowl game or a BCS conference, or any other national accomplishment to speak of in the last decade.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 6, 2013 3:14 p.m.

    Redute365

    "WE own BYU and the Holy War is so lopsided I don't care to continue it. We own BYU."

    In head-to-head, but only if you include the Pre-Cambrian era before color television.

    During the last half century, however, BYU owns U, not only in head-to-head 29-21, but in the far more important realm of overall national accomplishments.

    As SportsFan already posted:

    National Accomplishments

    BYU
    1 National Championship
    1 Heisman Trophy winner
    6 National College Football Hall of Fame Players
    1 Doak Walker Award winner (nation's best running back)
    4 Davey O'Brien Award winners (nation's best quarterback)
    7 Sammy Baugh Trophy winners (nation's best passer)
    2 Outland Trophy winners (nation's best interior lineman)

    17 AP Top 25 finishes
    18 Coaches 25 finishes

    ----------

    Utah
    0 National Championships
    0 Heisman Trophy winners
    0 National College Football Hall of Fame Players
    0 Doak Walker Award winners (nation's best running back)
    0 Davey O'Brien Award winners (nation's best quarterback)
    0 Sammy Baugh Trophy winners (nation's best passer)
    0 Outland Trophy winners (nation's best interior lineman)

    5 AP Top 25 finishes
    7 Coaches 25 finishes

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    June 6, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    There is reason to hope that we are going to continue making progress. Our new football facilities are not at the bottom of the PAC12 any more. From what I have read they a comparable with most of th mid-top of the league. We still have Coach Whit. We still have a great staff. Our recruiting has improved. We have been winning the instate recruiting battles. We're still packing our stadium with a waiting list for season tickets despite our recent struggles.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    June 6, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    Did some Ute fans claim that Utah was going to dominate the PAC12? I'm sure many did. Some bought into the hype and excitement a little too much. Some were just talking smack to rub more salt in the cougars wounds at being left behind. But Utah fans weren't the only ones who thought Utah would see more success sooner than they have. There were sports journalists around the PAC12 who predicted that the first PAC12 conference championship game would be held in RES. When you look at Utah's success playing BCS teams prior to joining the PAC12 there was reason to think they could hit the ground running.

    We have seen somewhat of a "perfect storm" with our QB and O-line problems and OC turnover while were trying to make the transition.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    June 6, 2013 2:56 p.m.

    Redute365

    "Utah WILL be a force in this conference very soon."

    Based on what, the wishful thinking of the kids on the hill?

    It's laughable that you beat your chests about being in the PAC, but the only thing you've had to crow about since joining the PAC is winning a couple of games against your now supposedly irrelevant, bitter rival.

    Funny how you claim to have "almost" beaten USC, except for a blocked FG try, yet you "own" BYU because U won a couple of games by blocking a FG try and having a FG try bounce off the upright.

    btw, beating BYU will never make you a contender in the PAC, in fact, it's not even enough to get U ranked or to a bowl game.

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    June 6, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    What advantage does Utah have in our current conference? The same that we have had for the last 20 years, great coaches (with a caveat for Brian Johnson right now), a "family atmosphere," and a blue collar attitude. We don't expect to be the next USC, or Oregon, or UCLA. We hope that we will be able to establish ourselves in the top half of the conference, and win a division title on good years and an occasional conference title. You have to play the hand you're dealt. The some thing goes for BYU. They have some advantages and some big challenges.

    Looking at what Utah has accomplished in the last 20 years gives us hope that they will continue to move forward. They have a track record of doing more with less (see BCS bowls).

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 6, 2013 2:45 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Where did I compare NBA with College Sports?

    I compared two NBA teams relative to "ideal" location: New York and San Antonio"

    Since when is "ideal" location even a factor in pro sports?

    Unlike college teams, NBA teams don't have to entice players to play in their fair cities.

    In the NBA, players are drafted and traded like cattle, with very little say in where they ultimately end up playing.

    So using your New York/San Antonio example to insinuate that Utah doesn't have to have the "ideal" location to compete with other PAC 12 teams because San Antonio doesn't have to have the "ideal" location to compete with New York is laughable.

    Even more laughable, your inability to see the disconnect in your argument.

  • Redute365 SLC, UT
    June 6, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    Utes are going to be fine. They nearly and should've beaten USC in the coliseum the first PAC12 game in 2011. They were a blocked field goal away.

    Utah WILL be a force in this conference very soon.

    Let all the jealous haters hate all they want. UTAH is the ELITE team in this state and its not even close. We have the brightest future and BYU fans are just bitter and jealous.

    WE own BYU and the Holy War is so lopsided I don't care to continue it. We own BYU.

    GO UTES !!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 6, 2013 1:57 p.m.

    @ Uteanymous: a byU fan even bringing up basketball? Too rich!!! What has byU EVER done in the NCAA tournament? Here's what: they own the two most embarrassing records of ineptitude. The most appearances without EVER reaching the final four, and, the most first round losses in a row. Utah is down in basketball right now, but they will come back. Utah has a very deep and rich history in basketball. byU has Ainge.

    Talk basketball smack when you have actually accomplished something.

    Too funny!! But thanks again for showing your obsession to all things Ute!

    Go Utes!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 6, 2013 1:49 p.m.

    Rockwell
    Baltimore, MD

    Uteology

    "New York is a great place, yet San Antonio has 4 NBA titles."

    LOL at your frantic and emotional spin.

    Comparing the NBA, where players are drafted and traded and signed according to cap space, to college sports, where every player is essentially a free-agent, free to choose any school that wants him, is a stretch, even for U.

    ----------------

    LOL at your reading skills.

    Where did I compare NBA with College Sports?

    I compared two NBA teams relative to "ideal" location: New York and San Antonio

    Then I said regardless of location what matters is talent and coaching.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 6, 2013 1:49 p.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT
    @azute

    "You've now posted that comment about 30 times. No one cares what one dude no one has ever heard of thinks, yet you keep posting it as if is is scripture.

    LOL!"

    Your side-kick at 12:45 never got this memo. Furthermore, everybody but you knows who Kevin Gemmell is.

    Why do you insist on evading me on actually responding directly to his quote and its content/merit?

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 6, 2013 1:46 p.m.

    byu fans need to be concerned more with how their team will ever find a way to actually beat a good team, besides barely beating usu at home in utah county.

    They point to our record w/in our conference after merely 2 years [even better than ua's been], yet they have gone 2-3 against The PAC-12, beating 2 teams which literally finished at the bottom of the conference standings and getting absolutely brutally curb-stomped at home by the only 2 teams they played against which finished the season w/a winning-record....They're 0-2 against UTAH.

    Regarding basketball, highly-rated recruiting-classes don't automatically translate into success on the court, not at all unlike highly-rated QBs not automatically translating into success on the field.

    How many highly-rated recruiting-classes do you people believe Coach RM to have ever hauled-in? Face it, even w/byu's most celebrated player ever, dr could only coach his team to the Sweet 16, only their 1st time reaching this round in more than 30 years. byu continues to retain being the national leader in tourney appearances without ever reaching The Final Four.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 6, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    Let me help you, Kevin Gemmell (ESPN):

    "Depth seems to be a big issue for most teams. Entering Year 3 in the Pac-12, do you feel like you've built up that depth to where you can be competitive?

    KW: I think we're working toward that end. It's a process. It doesn't happen overnight. Every year you try to make your football team better through recruiting. There are three ways to make yourself better. You either bring in new players through recruiting. You make the guys already in the program better and sometimes it's addition by subtraction. Those are the three ways you can improve your football team.

    And I think we have done a very nice job -- the assistant coaches in particular -- they are the ones on the front lines of recruiting and finding the talent and determining who we should bring into the program. I'm pleased with the classes we've put together the last three years. I believe we're heading in that direction of building depth. We're certainly a more talented team than we were a few years ago.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    @azute

    You've now posted that comment about 30 times. No one cares what one dude no one has ever heard of thinks, yet you keep posting it as if is is scripture.

    LOL!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 6, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    From KG at ESPN--

    "I think you have to give Utah at least four seasons in The PAC-12 -- a full class cycle -- before you can start passing judgment on Whittingham. Remember, not only are they adjusting to a higher level of play every week, but they need a grace period to re-work how they operate their program. Utah is seeing television money never thought possible in the Mountain West, and part of the learning curve is figuring out the proper way to appropriate that funding. Hiring Dennis Erickson is a great start -- a move they never would have been able to make financially in a non-AQ conference. Nor would a non-AQ team be able to attract a big-name coach like Erickson to be a coordinator. Let the money sink in, let the new facilities work their magic on recruits and if Utah has a four- or five-year bowl drought, then you can open up discussions. But Whittingham -- who I believe to be an outstanding coach -- should be sitting on ice for now."

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 6, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    "I might have 13 more"
    "You are more obsessed with me than anything else."

    DuckyThePromiseBreaker:

    People who point out your obsessive posting are not obsessed with you. We're merely pointing out your obsessive behavior. (A fine time for DNews to forget comment limits.)

    Now, how about you tell us how you responded to my request for a show of hands, posted yesterday at 8:50am?

    LOL, indeed!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    @johntheliarinslc

    I might have 13 more, this article has been epic. The only utah "fan" on here that made any attempt at trying to snawer my question could only come up the "slc transit system". That's good stuff, a guy couldn't make it up. Then of course you can't comment on the article itself, only my postings, which just shows you have no answer for it either.

    Here are the facts.

    utah doesn't have any advantages in any way over most of the rest of the pac12.

    utah has thus far been at the bottom of the pac12 in virtually every single sport.

    Nothing utah has done, or is doing, will give them any advantages over the rest of the pac12.

    utah "fans" after spending 3 years telling us that utah was would immediately be going to rose bowls and placing its teams at the top of the pac12 conference are now either trying to claim they always "knew it would take time" or else are acutally admitting utah will never be consistently good at much of anything.

    You are more obsessed with me than anything else.

    LOL!

  • BYU>utah provo, UT
    June 6, 2013 12:45 p.m.

    The pac-12 has been disastrous for utah as far as its sports teams are concerned. There is no other way of putting it. utah isn't a mediocre pac-12 football team, they are a bottom dweller right now. If they have another losing season in the pac-12 south division, the easier of the two divisions, then kwhitt will be on the hot seat in 2014 and will probably lose his job seeing that they haven't been competitive yet and the talent they have up on the hill isn't that great, not even close to 2004 or 2008. The other sports are't very good with the exception of gymnastics. Plus, utah has lost something like 11 out of the last 12 games in basketball to a WCC school down south and it doesn't seem likely to change anytime soon (they might get lucky and win one here and there, but I doubt it). BTW, BYU has #14 recruiting class(ESPN) in the nation this year (without getting Jabari Parker) and Rose is 12-3 against utah.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 6, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    Sorry, I have to laugh. Of the 80 posts extant on this article as I write this, Ducky the byu "fan" has launched 13 of them!

    C'mon Ducky, admit it, you're really a Ute "fan". We can't wait for your next trip to Tulsa.

    LOL, indeed!!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    @uteology

    ""An overwhelming 94 percent ranked academics first. Of those, three-quarters placed tradition second. Facilities, while important to many of the prospects, ranked a clear third...Fifty-six percent said location is not important." -- What recruits really want (Mitch Sherman, ESPN)"

    Well I don't have any anxiety over it but that should just give you even more anxiety and it proves my point so thanks for posting it.

    I said utah is at a disadvantage in almost all aspect from most of the rest of the conference. So if academics are that important utah fails again in comparison to the rest of the pac12 as utah is in the bottom 3rd in academics. utah fails once again in the 2nd most imporatant aspect of "tradition". The utah fails again in facilities and they fail again in location. In every single one of those aspects utah is at, or near, the bottom of the pac12 which is exactly the point I have been making.

    So tell us what exactly are the advantages utah has that are going to make them consistently competitive in the pac12?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 6, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    Marked it Down:

    "'anytime an unranked WAC champion plays a 6-5 team in a bowl game, that IS an irrelevant bowl.'...considering there were only 11 bowls in 1974, just getting to a bowl was much more meaningful than it is today."

    First of all, that was ME you were quoting; not Uteology. Second, how can you infer that the Fiesta Bowl was relevant back in the early 70s? All one had to do to play there was win the weak WAC. That's pretty much all one had to do to get into the Potato Bowl.

    If you Indy-WACers want to make a case for the '74 Fiesta Bowl as "relevant", you'll have to first dispel the following push-back:

    (1) The (weak) WAC champion finished 7-3-1.

    Would that be described as "prestigious", or "mediocre"?

    (2) The opponent was a 6-5 Big 8 team who hadn't been to a bowl game since 1958, who got to 6-wins by beating Wichita St. (1-9-1), and only made a bowl because Neb. went to the Sugar, and Okla. was on probation.

    Would that opponent be described as "prestigious", or "mediocre"?

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    June 6, 2013 11:28 a.m.

    Uteology

    "New York is a great place, yet San Antonio has 4 NBA titles."

    LOL at your frantic and emotional spin.

    Comparing the NBA, where players are drafted and traded and signed according to cap space, to college sports, where every player is essentially a free-agent, free to choose any school that wants him, is a stretch, even for U.

    As Duckhunter has already stated, Utah's incremental "advantage" in recruiting over other PAC 12 schools is non-existent, especially the big boys of the conference - USC, UCLA, Stanford, California, Oregon, Washington, and ASU. That leaves U fighting with Colorado, WSU, OSU and Arizona for the leftovers.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 6, 2013 11:28 a.m.

    Reno Cougs Fan 68:

    "I have not looked it up, but what was BYU record in 1974?"

    Is it really easier to ask me than do your own research? Granted, I am a Utah alumnus, so "research" isn't as foreign to me as it is to a typical Indy-WACer, but I'd think it'd been a lot faster for your to get the answers to your question had you tried "Google" than to wait for the moderators to approve your post, and for me to see it later.

    Anyway...

    Thanks to a narrow 12-10 escape at Air Force (2-9), in 1974, the Y was able to finish a mediocre 7-4-1, losing to Hawai'i (6-5), Utah St. (8-3), Iowa St. (4-7), and Okla. St. (7-5), and tying with Colo. St. (4-6-1). Utah was irrelevant from 1974-1977, so we did not make the postseason.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 11:22 a.m.

    @uteology

    You do realize utah is a LOSING team with a LOSING record don't you? You also realize utah's recruting is still in the BOTTOM half of the pac12 don't you? So if you are putting all your eggs in the "better recruiting" basket you are in for some major disappointment. We aren't talking about how utah stacks up to BYU here, we are talking about how utah stacks up to the rest of the pac12 and frankly they are falling even farther behind.

    You cannot give me one advantage that utah has, not one. You claim recruiting and coaching but I can't see how their coaching is any better than the rest of the conference and their recruiting is demonstrably not better than most of the teams in the conference. And of course we are talking about all sports here, not jsut football.

    You realize this article is about how utah stacks up to the rest of the pac12 in ALL sports and aspects don't you?

    Well they do not stack up well and none of you can show us how they are ever going to be any more than they currently are.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 6, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    @Marked it Down--

    Thank goodness byu had the slew of patsies on their schedule last season, in order to ensure bowl eligibility, huh? Because we sure as heck know byu can't ever count on beating UTAH, nor virtually any other good team on their schedule, excepting solely USU at home in utah county, BARELY.

    Weber State, Hawaii, Idaho, NMSU, etc. Not to mention, SJSU [OOPS]. Although SJSU was improved last season, it most certainly wasn't expected to be the case when byu scheduled them.

    "Schedule another patsy, Tom, understood? How about SJSU? We must continue our 'LEGACY' of padding our win-total with these bottom-feeders, in order to become bowl-eligible and fool East coast voters into believing we're actually good when they see 10 wins at season's end!"

    "SOS? What's SOS? Who cares how utterly weak our schedule is, annually, we have a 'LEGACY' to uphold! Get Idaho State back onto the schedule in 2013. Arguably worst FCS program ever! We can't risk scheduling a good FCS-opponent like UTAH did 2 years ago with MSU! UNCO was funny last season, 'til they beat WSU in Ogden. We looked like complete idiots for 'mocking' UTAH!"

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 6, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    VegasUte

    "I can't believe the trollers are now going back to 1974 to talk smack!!"

    LOL at your hypocrisy!

    Utah fans don't hesitate to go all the way back to the beginning of time, but only when it suits their purpose.

    The usual line of demarcation for the kids on the hill is interesting.

    For basketball, nothing after 2005 counts.

    For football, nothing before 2004 counts (except for overall head-to-head with BYU).

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 6, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    I can't believe the trollers are now going back to 1974 to talk smack!! This is getting better and better!!

    Great to be a Ute and living in the 21st century!!

    Go Utes!!

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    June 6, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    Uteology

    "anytime an unranked WAC champion plays a 6-5 team in a bowl game, that IS an irrelevant bowl."

    I guess that makes an unranked WAC/MWC/PAC also ran playing another unranked conference also ran even less relevant - a fitting description of most of Utah's bowl history.

    On the other hand, considering there were only 11 bowls in 1974, just getting to a bowl was much more meaningful than it is today, where, with 35 bowls, you don't even have to have a winning record to play in a bowl.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 6, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    @Duck
    You see it doesn't matter if you and I think this is a great place to be what matters is what the kids that play the sports think and nothing about slc is more attractive to most kids than los angeles is.

    ---------------

    Here's some research, hope it helps ease your anxiety:

    "An overwhelming 94 percent ranked academics first. Of those, three-quarters placed tradition second. Facilities, while important to many of the prospects, ranked a clear third...Fifty-six percent said location is not important." -- What recruits really want (Mitch Sherman, ESPN)

    I would think playing time and coaching staff are also important to recruits.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 6, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    @Duckhunter
    Highland, UT

    I'm still waiting for one of you to give me a list of the advantages utah has that are going to make them consistently competitive with the rest of the pac12. Thus far no one has given me even one.

    But I'm not even just talking about recruits, I'm talking about the overall athletic program. What is it utah has that gives them an advantage over the rest of the pac 12? What is going to make utah consistently competitive with everyone else in the pac12?

    -------------

    Huh?!? LOL

    New York is a great place, yet San Antonio has 4 NBA titles.

    In order to be competitive ANYWHERE you need:

    1. Talent
    2. Great Coaching

    We don't need to give U a list. Whatever the list the Ute staff is giving to the recruits is working. As pointed out the data shows Utah's recruiting is improving.

  • Reno Cougs Fan 68 Reno, NV
    June 6, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    Navel Vet

    I have not looked it up, but what was BYU record in 1974? What was Utah's record that year and what bowl game did they play in? I think that the bowl committee is the ones that chooses who plays not the schools so how can you blame BYU for their opponent in 74 or 84 or any time they accept a bowl invitation?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    @uteology

    I'm still waiting for one of you to give me a list of the advantages utah has that are going to make them consistently competitive with the rest of the pac12. Thus far no one has given me even one. Someone tried to tell me the salt lake city transit system was the difference maker but for some reason I really doubt that has ever been a factor with even one recruit.

    But I'm not even just talking about recruits, I'm talking about the overall athletic program. What is it utah has that gives them an advantage over the rest of the pac 12? What is going to make utah consistently competitive with everyone else in the pac12?

    So far no one has given me a single answer to that.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 6, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    @u90

    I didn't say "they are all nicer". Major failure on your part. I said they are all preferable to the majority of recruits although I did exempt wsu and spokane from that so once again you fail.

    You see it doesn't matter if you and I think this is a great place to be what matters is what the kids that play the sports think and nothing about slc is more attractive to most kids than los angeles is. And I personally think slc is a vastly nicer city then los angeles. Most kids would prefer phoenix, tuscon, the bay area, seattle, denver/boulder, and probably either oregon city to slc as well.

    They don't care about salt lakes "transit system", that has never netted utah a single recruit. They don't care about national parks 4-5 hours away either. Most of them do not care about ski resorts either since most don't ski and none of them are allowed to ski.

    So I'm still waiting for someone to list just one advantage utah has over the rest of the conference, just one.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 6, 2013 8:10 a.m.

    Uteanymous:

    "As far as bowl payouts go, anybody who is so clueless as to compare the payout for a 1974 bowl with the payout for a 2012 bowl has obviously never had a class in economics or finance."

    First of all I HAD taken classes in Economics and Finance. In fact, my DEGREE is in Finance, and my MBA was heavily Finance & Economics weighted. If you wanted to gauge the TVM of your $201K payout in '74, and factored in the average rate of inflation over those past 38-yrs (3.412164%), then you'll find an equivalent 2011 value of $605K...which is 19.3% less than USU's Potato Bowl take. So does making 19.3% LESS than the modern day Potato Bowl support that the Fiesta was a "major" bowl back in 1974?

    I fail to see how your 6:16 pm post refutes that the Fiesta Bowl of 1974 took an unranked WAC champion, and paired them up with a 6-5 team. Because anytime an unranked WAC champion plays a 6-5 team in a bowl game, that IS an irrelevant bowl.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 6, 2013 2:27 a.m.

    duck,

    I've been to all PAC12 cities and "no" they are not all nicer and have better whether than SLC. Where do you come up with this stuff? Do you travel much other than your annual trip to Tulsa?

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    June 5, 2013 11:48 p.m.

    U 90

    "most college fans couldn't care less about any sport outside of football and basketball"

    Utah is a whopping 15-39 (28%) combined in conference in football and basketball for 2011 and 2012, with 8th and 9th place finishes in football and 10th and 11th place finishes in basketball.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 5, 2013 11:23 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    They don't have any advantages over any other school in the conference with the possible exception of wsu, that's it.

    --------------

    According to Rivals, Utah with 3 years of BCS play the class rankings are (National/PAC-12):

    2014: #35/#1 (I know, to early even for BYU fans)
    2013: #44/#9
    2012: #28/#7
    2011: #37/#6

    Average: #36/#7

    So it seems Utah has the talent to compete against teams like Wazzu and BYU, we just need to build talent to compete against the UPPER half of the PAC-12.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 5, 2013 11:12 p.m.

    sammy duck

    Why are you so concerned about Utah's adjustment to the PAC 12? What does it have to do with your team? And, yes, we knew it would be an adjustment in terms of improving our facilities, recruiting, etc. Why does that bother you?

    As far as your personal prediction/hope of 3-9 for the Utes football team, just remember, if that is the case, then your team from Provo will be lucky to go 2-10.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 5, 2013 11:12 p.m.

    AZ Ute
    Scottsdale, AZ

    Sorry to be of little faith, but to me it's pretty simple. Before, we got the leftovers from CA recruiting but competed in the MWC and did well. Now we still get the leftovers but have to compete with the teams that passed on them.

    ------------

    A Ute fan using BYU logic?

    Why don't you go do some "research". The data to gather is football class rankings in the last 10 years. What the data shows is Utah has improved it's talent level, class rankings went from around 60s to around 30s.

    Now talent alone can't guarantee wins (see USC and Notre Dame) you need great coaching. Hopefully, Coach K will is the solution in basketball and Dennis Erickson in football.

    Go UTES!!

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    June 5, 2013 11:09 p.m.

    Utah in the Pac-12

    MEN Year 1 Year 2

    Baseball 7-23 (11th) 7-23 (11th)
    Basketball 3-15 (11th) 5-13 (10th)
    Football 4-5 (3rd) 3-6 (5th)
    Golf 12th 12th
    Swimming 5th 5th
    Tennis 1-6 (7th) 2-5 (7th)

    3rd and 5th sounds more impressive for football until you consider that only considers Utah's finish in the PAC South.

    Overall, Utah football finished with the 4th worst record in the conference in 2012 (9th) and the 5th worst record in 2011 (8th).

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    June 5, 2013 10:52 p.m.

    JohnInSLC

    Doormats are determined by overall season performance, not by individual game results.

    Trust a Ute to claim that one game makes a season.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 5, 2013 10:43 p.m.

    " U will be the dormat [sic] for decades!"

    Real:

    In football, I guess that makes the y the 'doormat of doormats'.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    June 5, 2013 8:35 p.m.

    gored

    "...No one said that the move up from the MWC to the PAC 12 would be easy."

    Yes they did. At the time of the announcement a lot of Ute fans were convinced from their 2004 and 2008 seasons that upgrading to 'big boy' conference stuff would be a good fit, be competitive, etc.

    Please don't try to back out of it, you know it's true. For three years now BYU fans and others have heard nothing but praises for being invited and the great opportunity to be part of the PAC10.2

    How's that working out now.

    Looks like a couple of Ute fans are finally coming to grips with reality on this thread.

    3-9 is very strong possibility.

    B2BB

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    June 5, 2013 8:20 p.m.

    @Duckhunter
    "I just think the disadvantages Utah faces are larger than anyone else in the conference and they will never completely overcome them."

    I slightly disagree with you on one point. I don't think Utah's disadvantages are greater than Washington State's disadvantages. Utah should eventually be able to hold their own financially with Washington St and will compete annually with them in the bottom half of conference standings in most sports.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 5, 2013 6:16 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "I'm aware of the Y's Fiesta Bowl loss to Oklahoma St. team back in '74. Only back THEN, the Fiesta Bowl WAS an irrelevant bowl game. It was equivalent in prestige to the Famous Idaho Potatoe Bowl of 2011 (only with payout of just over 26% of what Utah St. collected up in Boise 2-yrs ago)."

    LOL at your usual clueless, delusional spin.

    In 1974, TWENTY-TWO teams played in ELEVEN bowls.

    In 2012, SEVENTY teams played in THIRTY-FIVE bowls.

    Not only did more than 3 times as many teams play in a bowl in 2011, than in 1974,, but the Fiesta Bowl was reserved for the WAC conference champion. Since only 5 of Utah's 17 bowl teams won their conference championship, 12 of Utah's 17 bowl teams wouldn't have even been eligible for the "lowly" 1974 Fiesta Bowl.

    As far as bowl payouts go, anybody who is so clueless as to compare the payout for a 1974 bowl with the payout for a 2012 bowl has obviously never had a class in economics or finance.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    June 5, 2013 6:09 p.m.

    Can't wait for the fourth annual trip to Tulsa this year on September 21st. It will be nice to have the silence again for a few days. Sometimes you just get tired of a yapping dog, even if it does amuse you!!

    Go Utes!!

    Where is Fangupo??

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2013 5:47 p.m.

    @2irreleventwins

    "Because they have already been more then you said they would be."

    How is being in the bottom half of the conference in every single sport "more than I said they would be"? That is pretty much what I said, and am still saying, they would, and will, be.

    Also how does what I say affect what they actually are? I am just one guy with an opinion commenting on what I think and see and am not really sure how that affects results?

    Thus far utah has been at, or near, the bottom of the conference in almost every sport for both years they have been in the pac12. I have asked what it is that would make you think they will ever be more than that, other than on rare occasions, and no one so far has been able to give me an actual reason why.

    I know it is hard for some to face reality and it appears my question has made many of you face reality and you don't like it.

    So give me a reason other than just because you want it to happen.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2013 5:40 p.m.

    @Two fer

    That's a reasonable reply and I don't completely disagree. I also understand why Utah fans like yourself are enjoying seeing what will happen in the long run. I think they will be hard pressed to be consistently good in any sport but will probably have occasional good seasons in most sports. I'm not just trying to get a rise out of you guys on this subject either, although that is fun, I just think the disadvantages Utah faces are larger than anyone else in the conference and they will never completely overcome them. If BYU was in that conference they would be hard pressed as well although I do think BYU has some advantages that would help them, especially in olympic and second tier sports, that Utah does not have. But we'll never know the answer to that one,

    Best of luck.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    @who are you

    I have no idea how strong either schedule will be other than both have multiple teams with histories of being quality programs on their schedule, but on top of that I don't even care. SOS is something utah "fans" appear to have latched onto in an attempt to do two things, one is to explain away their losing records of the last couple of seasons, and two is two make a pre-emptive excuse for what they fear, and probably know, will be another losing season this coming fall. Other than that you can own me on that one because I really couldn't care less.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    June 5, 2013 5:09 p.m.

    No one said that the move up from the MWC to the PAC 12 would be easy. It will take time to see the results of better recruiting, improved facilities, etc. But my feelings are exactly the same as Who Am I Sir?'s comments: It is incredible to think that each week we get to see quality competition in all of the sports our Utes compete in. Believe me, non-Ute fans, we wouldn't change this for all the MWC championships in the world!

    With that in mind, I look at the Ute haters on this and other Ute articles very similarly to the kid who got left out of the game during school recess. I feel bad for you guys, and, to a certain degree, feel sorry for you, even when you are trying to disrespect our program.

    Go Utes!!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 5, 2013 4:32 p.m.

    Who am I:
    I haven't seen or read Phil Steele yet so I'll take a stab at predicting schedule difficulty:
    BYU 38
    Utah 20
    Of course it's all perception until the season actually plays out. I mean Oregon with a new coach could flop, ND without their QB could be .500, USC could actually go sub .500 and Middle Tenn State could go 11-1. Should be fun, why does it still have to be 3 months away?

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    June 5, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    Two years have demonstrated how woefully inadequate the ute athletic program was and is from top to bottom. U will be the dormat for decades!

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 5, 2013 3:52 p.m.

    "Not one Y fan responded with a prediction of the difficulty of the schedule. You, Sammyg, and a few others were the ones I was most interested to hear from - any prediction?"

    Who Am I Sir:

    They're probably hesitant to spend money to find out their secret fantasies were wrong.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 5, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    Johnny Triumph:

    I'm aware of the Y's Fiesta Bowl loss to Oklahoma St. team back in '74. Only back THEN, the Fiesta Bowl WAS an irrelevant bowl game. It was equivalent in prestige to the Famous Idaho Potatoe Bowl of 2011 (only with payout of just over 26% of what Utah St. collected up in Boise 2-yrs ago). That's why it took an unranked WAC champion, and paired them up with a 6-5 team.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    June 5, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    @Ducky "That said please tell me why utah will ever be more than I said they would be? Just because you really, really, want them to be better than that won't make it so."

    Because they have already been more then you said they would be. As far as the future I can say what they will be you can say what they won't be. Truth is neither of us has any clue what they will be. You have a hard enough time recognizing who's accomplished more in the last 10 years don't try to say you know what's going to happen in the future.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 5, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    @ J-TX

    "Sounds like what some loser would say after losing a job with a position of prominence and having to move into his Mom's cellar."

    So, Utah "lost" a job in the prestigious MWC and fell all the down the lowly PAC-12? Not only that but Utah had to endure a horrible $20 million/year pay raise. Yeah, loser is the word I would use too.

    @ Duckhunter

    I do not believe Utah will ever be a top contender in some sports, (softball, golf and volleyball especially). But I do think gymnastics has been, and will be, a perennial contender in the PAC-12. I think basketball will eventually be a power player in conf. as well. A good coach and a few good players can be enough for a really strong team. And I think we have a good coach. Hopefully football gets back to their winning ways and can be at least a "top half" team the majority of the years.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 5, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    @ ducky

    Love the change of direction.
    You said not one Ute fan could list an advantage Utah had over the other PAC-12 members. Now you agree with me on many of my listed advantages; however, you "know" none of them would be considerations for top athletes. Great to know Johnnie Carson's Carnack the magnificent lives and resides in Utah county.
    By the way how is Mr. Reynolds doing in the Pro as compared with Mr. Bergstrom?
    In a comment about the difficult schedule this season for the Y I asked Y fans to predict, in advance, Phil Steele's ranking of schedule difficulty. I predicted the Y's would be about 45th and the U's would be some 10-15 places higher. Not one Y fan responded with a prediction of the difficulty of the schedule. You, Sammyg, and a few others were the ones I was most interested to hear from - any prediction?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    @u90

    My comprehension skills are just fine, you'rs seem to be lacking. My quesiton was "What is it about utah that is going to make them consistently competitive in ANYTHING?"

    That means naything, not everything. It is obvious they will not be competitive in everything, even you realize it. But what makes you think they will be consistently competitive in ANYTHING?

    They don't have any advantages over any other school in the conference with the possible exception of wsu, that's it. In every other criteria they are in an inferior postion to everyone elese in the pac12. Every other school has more money, more fans, more population, better climate, better city (at least in the eyes of most recruits), more prestige, better legacy, better name brand, better facilities, better everything.

    There is almost nothing that the university of utah has to offer that is superior to anyone else in the pac12. Nothing.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    June 5, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    @NavalVet - BYU has had a Fiesta Bowl invitation, but you've forgotten about it.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    June 5, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    I really hope that Utah can figure things out and become comepetitive in the PAC. Since the rivalry is over with BYU I hold no more animosity toward the U but hope for their success as it will do nothing but help our state. That said I think that BYU is in a better spot than the U, at least with how things stand currently. If BYU doesn't do very well with the very tough schedules of the next few years then they can water down the schedule a little bit. Utah has very little control over their schedule and are locked into tough conference games. And assume that Utah can win the PAC South, they still have to fight through a conf championship game. The hopes of the U would seem to either hit the Playoff or get a low to upper-low tier bowl game. Sounds a lot like BYU's hopes too.

  • AZ Ute Scottsdale, AZ
    June 5, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    Sorry to be of little faith, but to me it's pretty simple. Before, we got the leftovers from CA recruiting but competed in the MWC and did well. Now we still get the leftovers but have to compete with the teams that passed on them.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 5, 2013 1:33 p.m.

    @ Marked It Down "Many previously relevant programs have dropped off the national map NEVER to return; what proof do you have that Utah will be any different?"

    I have no proof. Just like you have no proof 1-26 will never happen or that BYU won't lose back to back games to USD and USF. But I do know that programs have cycles. In 1942 the Utes went 10-12 but then won the 44 NCAA and 47 NIT championships. In 1954 they went 12-14 and then went on to 7 straight post season tournaments. In 1973 they went 8-19 and then went on a run of making 28 of the next 36 post season tournaments. I have no proof but Utah's legacy is strong and they will eventually be back in hoops.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    June 5, 2013 1:22 p.m.

    I Love being in the Pac 12! All good things take time and work, our time will happen. Some Y fans only show their Utes jealously and inferiority complexs by posting on every Ute article. It obviously proves that you care, truly, madly, deeply about our program LOL!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 5, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    FatMan86 comes in with the Boise State smack! Love it haha. Nice to see BYU's "new rivals" getting a word in lol. Just so you know FatMan, you're run against the Cougs is over starting this year...Utah on the other hand? Well they won't play you because their schedule is already too hard in the PAC 12 (Chris Hill's inference, not mine). Cheers Broncos, see you in October.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 5, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    @ Duckunter "What is it about utah that is going to make them consistently competitive in anything? I'm listening"

    I know you are listening but apparently your reading comprehension skills needs some work. I told you Utah will not consistently be at the top of the PAC12 every year in every sport. There will be up years, down years and average years. The good news for Utah fans is that it will all take place in a conference of relevancy.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2013 1:00 p.m.

    @who are you

    None of that is an advantage in transforming utah into a top tier program in any sport. Recruits from SoCal and Texas do not look at the season and climates here as an "advantage", they do not care about national parks for the most part, whatever downtown culture it is that you think salt lake has is a bit of a laugh to a kid from Los Angeles, Dallas, the Bay Area or Houston. How many of them are going to medical school?

    Now just so you know I don't disagree with you on many of those things, at least for what you or I would consider "advantages" to living here, but we aren't really talking about you and me. We are talking bout what is going to attract enough top tier kids to utah's atheltic programs to make them consistently good in the pac12 and nothing you listed is going to do that.

    I think u 90 actually is a bit more realistic about this than most of you. Mid to low tier in most sports most years with occasional years where they can compete. Championship in any sport extremely rare. That's reality.

  • Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UT
    June 5, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    You can't fault the Utes for joining the PAC. You also can't be too disappointed in having struggles adjusting to a constant higher level of competition. The U is lining up most every week with a team that has had considerably more resources for its sports programs for several years. It will take all of the stars aligning up perfectly for the Utes to be a conference title contender in football or basketball in the near future.

    As a local sports fan though here's hoping!

  • FatMan86 West Jordan, UT
    June 5, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    Here's a thought. How about results being the determining factor in who has a better program and who doesn't. You can fluff it up all you want, but bottom line is, Boise St owns both BYU and Utah. Scoreboard says it all!!

  • UoU 1991 Park City, UT
    June 5, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    Just the FAX

    "Enjoy it while it lasts Dr. Hill; in the wake of the growing swimming abuse scandal, that may not be much long - see Rutgers."

    Unfortunately, you may be correct.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    June 5, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    U 90

    "...most college fans could[sic] care less about any sport outside of football and basketball."

    LOL at either your cluelessness or your spin.

    The PAC 12 bills itself the "conference of champions" BECAUSE of the number of national championships won by conference team mostly in sports OTHER than football and basketball.

    Except for women's gymnastics which hasn't won a NC since 1995, the Utes weren't even relevant in the OTHER sports in the WAC and MWC, so there's no reason to believe they'll be anymore relevant in the PAC.

    "Granted, Utah basketball has a long way to go, but given their legacy they have a good shot at restoring the program within 5 years."

    Based on what, wishful thinking?

    Many previously relevant programs have dropped off the national map NEVER to return; what proof do you have that Utah will be any different?

    "However, there will also be occasional years where Utah is competing for a big-time bowl game."

    The Utes have only won 6 conference championships in the last 60 years in the WAC/MWC. It could be 30 years before the Utes win their first PAC championship - see Arizona.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 5, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    @Scores

    I will take that bet.

  • J-TX Allen, TX
    June 5, 2013 11:53 a.m.

    “It’s an exciting time for us. It’s fun to have this kind of challenge as you move into another league,” Hill said. “It’s just unusual. It’s a chance to build again and that’s what we’re planning on doing...."

    Sounds like what some loser would say after losing a job with a position of prominence and having to move into his Mom's cellar.

    Yes, yes, that's exactly what this was / is.

    "Planning on rebuilding", the Ute Mantra through 2025.....

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 5, 2013 11:50 a.m.

    @ Ducky

    1. Climate - 4 Seasons; not extreme heat/cold
    2. City - mass transportation; low crime rate; clean city; major new development (City Center etc.) including entertainment/activities for any lifestyle preferences.
    3. Natural diversification; foothills of mountains, world class skiing venues (winter Olympic facilities) within 20 miles radius. Water sports, fishing, hunting etc. etc.
    4. "Wonders of the world" type natural parks within 250 mile radius.
    5. Beautiful and spacious campus.
    7. Medical school, soon to be dental school, world class research institute (83rd on 2012 The Academic Ranking of World Universities)
    8. On campus football stadium which has been rated number one is at least one poll.
    9. The MUSS! (rated one of the top student support groups in America)
    10. The list goes on... not the least of which is "Home of the UTES!)

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    @u 90

    I didn't mention golf, or any other sport, although how utah competes against their conference in those sports does matter. The goal is to have winning programs throughout your athletic department and I have no doubt the 1st time utah actually wins a conference championship (yes it will happen someday they will win one in something) we'll be able to read utah "fans" crowing about it all over these boards.

    So was your post an affirmative answer to my question? You didn't name one single advantage utah has in relation to the rest of the pac 12, and yes that is what matters. What is it about utah that is going to make them consistently competitive in anything? Desire? everyone has that so that is nothing unique. Funding? Nope. Facilities? Nope. Geography? Nope. Population? Nope. Climate? Nope.

    So what is it? What is it utah "fans" are seing that makes them think utah will ever be anything more than they currently are?

    I'm listening.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 5, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    @Duckhunter "why don't you tell us what advantages utah has then? I'm not asking what "advantages" you might think utah has over BYU, I want to know what advantages they have in relation to the rest of the pac 12"

    Utah is not going to be a perennial top program in all sports in the PAC12. They will be middle to lower end in most minor sports. The football and basketball teams should be able to compete in the middle of the PAC with occasional strong seasons. That to me is worth the move to the PAC12. What amazes me is that you continue to discount Utah's invitation to the PAC as if being a big fish in a small pond or having no conference affiliation is somehow better. It's obvious that no invitations still haunts you on a daily basis.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 5, 2013 11:30 a.m.

    It's so nice to be able to watch all of the football games on COMCAST. The additional revenue is huge. Last year was a dissapointment regarding football. Hopefully it was an anomally and not a trend. I like the direction that the basketball team is heading.

    Fellow Ute fans; don't feed the birds and they will fly away. If you don't react to outlandish and provoking comments, the individual has nothing to reply too. Unfortunately there's one BYU (I assume) fan who's only purpose is to get a rise out of Utah fans. Pretty sad and pathetic when you think about it; but absolutely true.

  • Scores Idaho Falls, ID
    June 5, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    Utes are crazy to think they will complete for conference championships anytime soon. The only reason they are in the Pac is because of $$$. If conference wins (football) don't come soon the die hard fans will be looking at empty seats in Rice Eccles. I'll bet you that BYU wins more games this year than Utah.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    June 5, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    duckhunter,

    most college fans could care less about any sport outside of football and basketball. So if the Ute golf team takes 12th place... who cares. Granted, Utah basketball has a long way to go, but given their legacy they have a good shot at restoring the program within 5 years. Regarding football, Utah will have poor years (2012), they will also have average years where they are still in the hunt for the PAC 12 championship game through the end of the season (2011). However, there will also be occasional years where Utah is competing for a big-time bowl game. I'll take the down & average years along with an occasional huge season in the PAC12. It's better than being a big player in a small conference or having no conference at all.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 5, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    Duckhunter:

    "2irreleventbowlwins" ???

    Really? So now the Fiesta and Sugar Bowls are "irrelevant"? Just because you've never been good enough to get an invitation to play there? Haha! 2BCSWINS really hurt you, didn't he? I can tell.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    June 5, 2013 10:55 a.m.

    I'll admit that when Utah was invited to the Pac-12, I was envious. I hoped that the Big-12 would invite BYU, but not since Utah became the whipping boy of the Pac-12. Utah just became the latest victim of the "Peter Principle." They were promoted to their level of incompetence. I think the BSU model is much better - be the big fish in the little pond.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    Well ekute why don't you tell us what advantages utah has then? And "being in the pac 12" is not an advantage in relation to the rest of the pac 12. I'm not asking what "advantages" you might think utah has over BYU, I want to know what advantages they have in relation to the rest of the pac 12 as that is what this article is all about, how utah stacks up to, and competes with, the rest of the pac 12.

    I notice not one of you utah "fans" has been able to give us one single advantage, or for that matter even one single thing that is equal, for utah with the rest of the pac 12.

    So please tell what those things are, I'm certainly open to learning what those might be.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 5, 2013 10:16 a.m.

    When you create a list of what your big brother supposedly *doesn't* have, that spells
    j-e-a-l-o-u-s-y.

    I'm "melting down" with laughter.

    Go Utes.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 5, 2013 9:49 a.m.

    @2irreleventbowlwins

    That doesn't hurt me, but I can clearly see my comment hurt you. LOL!

    That said please tell me why utah will ever be more than I said they would be? Just because you really, really, want them to be better than that won't make it so.

    I can tell you now why they won't be any more than I said.

    They will always have a vastly smaller budget than most of the pac12. They will always have lesser facilities than most of the pac12. They will always be located in far less desirable location than most of the pac12. They will always have inferior recruits to most of the pac12. They will always have an inferior legacy to most of the pac12.

    Those are just facts and they are not going to change no matter how badly you want them to.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    June 5, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    @Ducky.....You and other cougie "fans" may not like this comment. However the Y will never be more than a kraft fight hunger bowl type of football team. They will continue to lose to teams that don't rank in the bottom half of college football. Sorry that may hurt but I truly believe it's the truth......."LOL"

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 5, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    I'm with Duck. Utah "fans" will never realize they just can't beat good teams.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 5, 2013 8:50 a.m.

    Okay, by a show of hands, how many Ute fans wish the school would have gone solo in football and joined the WCC for a few other sports?

    Now, how many byu "fans" (and you know who you are) wish the cougs were in the Pac-12?

    I thought so.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 5, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    Who am I sir:

    "I really don't think the thrill of seeing Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, UCLA, USC, California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, and Washington come to Utah and play the UTES in conference games will ever wear out!"

    It hasn't worn off on ME either, and I seriously doubt it ever will.

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    June 5, 2013 8:01 a.m.

    "Hill says Utes are making progress after two years in the conference."
    He's correct - the Utes are getting progressively worse.

  • oldtimeftballer Salt Lake City, UT
    June 5, 2013 12:45 a.m.

    Re Sir Robin

    "Yea it's great to be in the PAC..pinch me.". You should pinch your Utes. Bottom Half and cellar dwellers in just about every sport.

    You fans are so funny...no wonder why people laugh at both programs.

    BYU finally plays more than one tough opponent in a year and suddenly it's "the hardest schedule in program history"...duh. Not as many cupcakes. Welcome to what real teams do. Can't wait for the SF Bowl. Bigtime.

    Utah. Please. You will be lucky to win 6 games as the PAC is way superior to you now. Stanford, Oregon, UCLA and ASU are easy picks against you. You are begging for just a winning record and a bad bowl game. Begging.

    Bottom line= State of Utah better tune in to High School games as the College programs are mediocre to poor in a national scale.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 4, 2013 11:24 p.m.

    Enjoy it while it lasts Dr. Hill; in the wake of the growing swimming abuse scandal, that may not be much long - see Rutgers.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 4, 2013 10:59 p.m.

    I love every aspect of PAC-12 membership. Everything from the academic prestige of the university to the competition on the athletic fields. Would I rather win than lose? No doubt; however I know Arizona has never played in the Rose Bowl and do you think they would give up PAC-12 membership for any other alternative?
    I really don't think the thrill of seeing Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, UCLA, USC, California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, and Washington come to Utah and play the UTES in conference games will ever wear out! It's not just football - it's sports across the board. (Look at this years soccer schedule and throw in Oklahoma while visiting Kentucky! What an entertainment value!)
    Pinch me! After two years I'm still dreaming.

  • David Centerville, UT
    June 4, 2013 10:54 p.m.

    It’s a challenge that we welcome because everybody wants to compete on the very, very top level and that’s what we’re doing week in and week out.”

    I wouldn't say the Utes football team is "competing" on the "very, very top level...week in and week out" yet. I thought their first season was a heart-breaker. The 2nd season was very disappointing and I hope it isn't a trend that we must settle for. The QB position has been a weakness.

    I think Whittingham is one of the great coaches in football. He brings out tremendous effort, he coaches well, and adjusts well during games. With time he could bring the program up, but he needs better assistant coaches in an area or two, and he needs better recruiting, which may be tough given the recruiting competition of the traditional PAC 12 teams (Oregon, USC, UCLA, Cal, etc).

    Go Cougs! Hopefully we beat Utah this year!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    June 4, 2013 10:05 p.m.

    No complaints from me.

    In the Pac12, every game is a big game. In every game we're playing a nationally recognized program. Can't hurt recruiting.

    Go Utes.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    June 4, 2013 10:00 p.m.

    I don't think utah will ever be more than intermittently competitive in any sport. Yes I know utah "fans" will have a meltdown over that comment but I truly believe it. There are just to many negatives for them to overcome for them to be anything more than occasionally decent at anything.

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    June 4, 2013 9:55 p.m.

    Good luck to the Utes in the PAC-12.

    That said, I'm not sure Dr. Hill has a viable game plan. To compete you have to differentiate, not be a "me too." Utah seems to be football-centric, but how are they going to differentiate in football? They will never have the facilities of an Oregon or USC and while they may get some better athletes, no one's explained a path to top 10 recruiting classes.

    If Utah wants to differentiate and compete immediately in the PAC-12, they'll go against the grain and instead of following the pack to de-emphasize or eliminate Olympic sports, they'll use a relatively modest investment in a couple of Olympic sports where it is much more likely to pay immediate recruiting dividends and put you in the top 4 in the conference in those sports.

    Or you can follow Hill's plan, use your money to pay your football and basketball staffs "PAC-12 money" and millions to upgrade your football facilities and at the end of the day end up where you started with the same coaches and the same middle of the pack facilities and recruiting classes--hardly a recipe for success.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    June 4, 2013 7:40 p.m.

    We need better golfers

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    June 4, 2013 7:19 p.m.

    Classy comment Cougsndawgs! Thank you.

    I expect to see some coaching changes this coming year in several sports on the hill. It will be interesting to see what changes will occur. I hope Whit can show some improvement otherwise I think his days are numbered.

    Go UTES!!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    June 4, 2013 7:03 p.m.

    I've said before, and I'll reiterate that Utah was deserving of their PAC 12 invite considering the qualities the conference was looking for. I'm a BYU fan, but I do hope that Utah can get over the hump and start competing for championships, as this will bring attention to the state and bring exciting football to watch. I would say Utah's challenge will be greater than TCU's because Utah doesn't reside in what is arguably the most fertile recruiting ground in the nation like TCU does. Good luck to the Utes in their future with the PAC 12.

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    June 4, 2013 6:57 p.m.

    When it was announced that Utah would be moving up to the Pac 12, I guessed that it would take 5 years for the Utes to acclimate to their new conference. I still believe that is true.

    Utah's first year in the Pac 12 in football was a lot of fun for me. If they hadn't choked in the season finale, they would have been champions of the South. Considering that they were playing with a junior college quarterback (thank you for performing so well, Jon Hays!), I was happy with what they accomplished.

    The second season wasn't much fun. They definitely took a step backward, and missed out on postseason play as a result.

    This fall's schedule will be the Utes toughest to date. They will have to play very well to become bowl eligible.

    Let's be honest, Utah will have a hard time out recruiting most of the teams in their new conference. They will need to maximize their talent, get solid coaching, and play well consistently to compete for conference championships.

    That being said, I'm glad they moved up.

    Go Utes!