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Comments about ‘Taking inventory of Utah's first two seasons in the Pac-12’

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Published: Tuesday, June 4 2013 6:09 p.m. MDT

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scott
Alpine, UT

SoonerUte

"They make jokes about Utah struggling, while knowing full well that BYU would be in a worse position."

I love how Utah fans just make stuff up to excuse Utah's own miserable failures.

BYU wouldn't have blown a gift-wrapped PAC 12 South in 2011 by losing to one of the worst teams in the country on their home field.

BYU didn't lose to Utah State in 2012 to be denied any hope of playing in a bowl game.

"Utah has improved from its Mountain West days while BYU has not."

From #23 10-3 to #39 8-5 to #61 5-7 - wow, that's some, um, "improvement".

The stress of their quickly disintegrating program is obviously taking it's toll on our friends from the hill.

U 90
Corona, CA

Lonestar,

Programs go in cycles. Utah is currently in a 4 year post season drought with a 48-68 record. It wasn't too long ago that BYU also had a 4 year drought going 37-75. I'm glad BYU recovered, Utah will recover as well.... there's too much tradition to not recover.

11 Sweet Sixteens
8 Elite Eights
2 final Fours
2 NCAA Championship games
1 National Championship (47 NIT)

sammyg
Springville, UT

SoonerUte

That was a fun comment.

What has been a sheer delight in my life is seeing many Ute fans that slobbered over themselves for the invitation to the PAC10 and in 3 short years going to this...

"They make jokes about Utah struggling..." LOL

"Utah has improved from its Mountain West days while BYU has not." Delusional spin.

sammyg
Springville, UT

u90

Don't fool yourself. There won't be much of a recovery. Unless of course if winning barely enough games to qualify for the signature bowl tie-in games for 6th and 7th place is the epitome of accomplishment.

Uncle Larry did a great thing by getting the Kraft Fight Hunger and New Mexico bowls for his conference.

That's got to bring a smile to both Ute and BYU fans!

Happy Happy Happy

U 90
Corona, CA

sammy,

The recovery I was speaking of was basketball. Why are you responding to that with football smack? Try to keep up.

Regarding football, Utah's had one down year (5-7) since 2002. No recovery needed there, just regroup and rebuild. I wish BYU the best in football in 2013 with their first decent schedule in a very long time. In fact this could be BYU's toughest schedule ever.

SportsFan
Orem, UT

U 90

Nice, inconsistent sugar coating.

If, Utah's football team has only had one down year since 2002, then Utah's basketball team has only had one up year since 2005.

KW won't last long if he starts stringing together seasons like his supposedly up year in 2005.

All of those Sweet Sixteens, Elite Eights, etc., sound impressive until you dig a little deeper to discover that there were so few teams in most of those tournaments, that the Utes were either seeded into Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight or only had to win one game to reach that level.

The truth is, the Utes have only ever won 3+ games in the same NCAA tournament 3 times (1944, 1997 and 1998), and the 1944 tournament was the absolutes weakest tournament in NCAA history.

btw, not many fans would call this "improvement", but you're welcome to go on believing that if it helps you sleep at night.

2011 13-18 RPI 123
2012 6-25 RPI 270
2013 15-18 RPI 158

sammyg
Springville, UT

SoonerUte

BB recovery? Utes might make a run for something around mid-pac but again this is wishful thinking and not happening this year either.

In three years we've gone from this :) to this :{ and now to this :( along with an increase of excuses.

Try to accept it with less whining.

SG in SLC
Salt Lake City, UT

@Duckhunter

I know I am late to the party, but let's talk Utah’s advantages.

You make it sound as though the University of Utah is dead-last overall in the PAC-12, but that's not quite so...

Utah has a location/demographics advantage over Colorado (Boulder), Oregon (Eugene), Oregon State (Corvallis), and Washington (Pullman).

Utah has a school size (enrollment) advantage over Colorado, Oregon State, Oregon, Washington State, and Stanford.

Utah has an overall NCAA team championships history advantage over Arizona, Washington, Oregon State, and Washington State.

Utah's Huntsman Center is the largest basketball arena in the PAC-12.

Utah's baseball field (Spring Mobile Ballpark) is by far the largest in the PAC-12 (and arguably has the best view).

Utah ranks in the middle of the PAC-12 in freshman retention rate and average SAT scores.

On the other hand, Utah has one of the smallest football stadiums in the PAC-12, but contrary to your assertion, that is something that they could (and almost certainly will) address.

phantomblade
Salt Lake City, Utah

SG in SLC

"Utah has an overall NCAA team championships history advantage over Arizona, Washington, Oregon State, and Washington State."

Since we're talking football and basketball recruiting here, Utah's skiing and women's gymnastics championships are meaningless

"Utah's baseball field (Spring Mobile Ballpark) is by far the largest in the PAC-12 (and arguably has the best view)."

It's not even Utah's baseball field, is it? U simply rent it from the Bees.

"Utah has one of the smallest football stadiums in the PAC-12,"

The expansion may never happen or be needed. The shine of Utah's newly minted PAC membership won't last forever and with a few more 5-7 seasons with no bowls, RES will look just like the HC, a vast sea of empty red chairs.

BigCougar
Bountiful, UT

@SG in SLC
"Utah's Huntsman Center is the largest basketball arena in the PAC-12."

Actually this works against you in a big way when the seating capacity is 15,000+ and you only get a few thousand showing up for games. Having a large capacity and not being able to fill it looks bad for your program.

Ute fans might knock WCC venues but there's a monumental difference when you go to the hostile environment of Gonzaga with it's raucous student crowd vs playing in the relative public library that is the HC. Gonzaga's arena might only hold 6,000+ but they light that joint up. Utah could learn a thing or two.

wayfarer
Clearfield, UT

Sorry Utes. Hate to be the bearer of hard data. The gold standard for measuring the health of college athletics is the Director's Cup. Once again, Utah will rank 10th or 11th in the PAC 12 conference when the final results are announced on June 14th.(74th nationally)

Worse, Utah's 2013 academic ranking in US News is 125. Down from 2012. Again, bottom third of the PAC 12 conference. Other PAC 12 schools are also "research" institutions but that hasn't hurt their ranking. Where is the prestige of belonging to an elite academic conference when you are bringing up the rear?

Ute fans need to ask themselves how long they will continue to support their athletic programs (football) when they year in and year out finish in the bottom third. Pinch yourselves all you want but the data does not support Hill's ludicrous pipe dream that Utah will be competing regularly for athletic titles in any sport.

SG in SLC
Salt Lake City, UT

@phantomblade
"Since we're talking football and basketball recruiting here, Utah's skiing and women's gymnastics championships are meaningless"

And by "meaningless", I assume you mean "less relevant (but not irrelevant)", because when it comes to football and basketball recruiting, a school's committment to its overall athletic program is a factor.

Does it really make any difference whether or not the U has its own dedicated ballpark or rents the local Triple-A PCL field? Actually, it probably does make a difference, because a dedicated field shoehorned into the prime real estate on the hill would almost certainly be inferior (and middle of the PAC), so Spring Mobile Park gives the U a bigger bang for its baseball program buck -- a fact that would not be lost on potential recruits.

Though there is currently no timetable or specific details, the U is exploring options regarding RES expansion.

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ Pheonix

"The Utes have been owned by WAC/MWC Boise State and were destroyed by TCU in their last two meetings."

This is awkward: BYU is 0-3 all-time against Boise and has lost 4 in a row to TCU by an average margin of 23 points...

"but being a former National Champion and Heisman Trophy winning program will ALWAYS resonate with fans."

Which is why Princeton football is held is such high regard. 28 national titles is why they are still a power team today....

@ talkinsports

"LOL! BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012; Utah only played TWO. Please explain how only playing TWO ranked teams is more challenging than playing FIVE."

You know the season is 12 games long, right? The overall quality of Utah's opponents were higher week in and week out. Evidenced by the fact that Utah's SOS was stronger. BYU played 5 teams ranked top 25, but they also played 5 ranked above 100. 4 (a third of the season) of those finished ranked higher than 150. Those are guaranteed wins that do not drain and wear on teams like playing a full slate of quality teams does.

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

SG in SLC

"a school's committment[sic] to its overall athletic program is a factor"

What kind of commitment are you talking about? The Utes rank near the bottom of the PAC in the Directors Cup standings, which measures overall success across all sports, men's and women's.

I can just see the puzzled look on the face of a Utah football or basketball recruit when the Utah recruiter mentions that Utah has great coed skiing and women's gymnastics programs? He'll probably want to know how Utah's synchronized swimming team is doing as well.

Where are Utah's nationally relevant men's teams - football, basketball, baseball, track & field, swimming, and volleyball - sports in which PAC 12 teams have excelled?

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

@ scott

It's easy to say BYU wouldn't have blown the game against CU, but how do we know that BYU would have beat OSU, UCLA, WSU (in the snow) or Arizona? We'll never know, but judging by BYu's recent record against PAC-12 teams I would say it is pretty unlikely they would be the South Division champs.

BYU didn't lose to USU last year, but BYU didn't play the Aggies in Logan either. The game was extremely close in Provo. I would bet if BYU was on the road the Aggies would have pull out a close one, just like they did against the Utes.

Lastly, no Utah's record has not improved. But the program as a whole has gotten much stronger from a facilities, recruiting, and a coaching perspective. Hopefully those improvements will manifest themselves on the field this year in the way of some wins.

Uteanymous
Salt Lake City, Utah

twofer

"Which is why Princeton football is held is such high regard. 28 national titles is why they are still a power team today...."

LOL are your desperate sensationalism.

Fans and recruits have heard of Steve Young, Jim McMahon, Ty Detmer and other great players who played during BYU's National Championship era, which is mentioned frequently every time a BYU game is nationally broadcast.

NOBODY except Ivy League groupies remembers any specifics about the 1800's era Ivy League national championships except that they were part of the early history of college football.

The overall quality of Utah's schedule was only marginally better than BYU's, but the overall quality of Utah's results were far below BYU's. Playing a slightly tougher schedule doesn't mean anything if you don't WIN!

BYU beat #16/#17 Utah State, ACC division champ Georgia Tech, and MWC tri-champ SDSU, and BYU was very competitive in losing to 3 Top 25 teams on the road by a total of 10 points.

Who of any consequence did U beat in 2012?

You do realize, don't you, that minimizing the only team of any consequence that U beat in 2012 doesn't do anything to improve your standing?

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

I need to apologize for getting side tracked on this, I asked a question and wanted a sincere asnwer and Who am I sir? gave me a reasonable answer and he deserved a better response from me. I really am interested in why utah fans think utah is going to be consistently competitive in the pac12 since I do not think they will be.

So here is a better response to Who am I sir's points.

1) "Climate" - this is do not agree with, I do not think our climate is favorbable to the climates on the west coast and arizona. In some sports like baseball and softball it is a huge detriment.

2)"City" - once again I disagree. SLC is a nice city but in the eyes of most kids out there it does not stack up to LA, Phoenix, Seattle, etc.

3) "natural diversification" - disagree again. There might be a few, a very few, athletes that care about national parks or hunting but it isn't many. I just don't think those things are a draw although those are definately things I like about living here.

continued

GO_COUGARS!
Provo, UT

snack wac

"getting picked to be the whipping boy of the Pac 12"

Yeah you tell em! The only thing more embarrassing would be being that whipping boy's whipping boy, year after year after year, growing more bitter and and obsessive and ironically following all of the news about a team you're claiming is irrelevant.

Hopefully no one would notice the irony.

GO COUGARS!

GO_COUGARS!
Provo, UT

@Uteanymous

"You do realize, don't you, that minimizing the only team of any consequence that U beat in 2012 doesn't do anything to improve your standing?"

Good point. What happens when you minimize a team that beats you, repeatedly?

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

4) see answer to number 3

5) "Beautiful campus" - I do agree that the university of utah is a very nice campus so the campus is definately not a negative, but is it anymore beautiful than the other campuses in the pac12? Not really, we are talking about some very nice schools here, so while it is not a detriment it is not an advantage either.

7) "medical school, dental school, research institution" - almost all of the pac12 schools have those same things and in most cases are more highly though of than utah is. Those things are not a detriment but they are certianly no advantage over the rest of the pac12.

8)"On campus stadium-nice" it is a nice stadium but so are many of the others in the pac12. Once again the stadium is no detriment but it is no advantage either.

9) "the muss" - That is certainly up for debate but I'll give you that one, it is a nice advantage when other teams play at utah to have that rabid group making noise.

You skipped #6 but I just don't see how those things are "advantages' for utah over the rest of the pac12.

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