Naval Vet,First of all, let's have a little English lesson.
Note the sentence structure of my sentences that you quoted and the words I
used. They had the words "If . . . . then . . . .". That means that if
one thing happens, then another thing will happen as a result. I don't
think you get this. I'm trying to see in my post where I said that the
events HAD happened; I was saying what would happen in each situation.In fact, my first comment was "If BYU loses to Utah in the head-to-head
game, but ends the season ranked higher, Utah fans will say head-to-head is more
important." That happened recently, and you proved my point as to what Ute
fans' reactions would be. Thanks.My next points are
hypothetical scenarios that predict how Ute fans will respond based on past
behavior. Yes, you correctly pointed out the hypocrisy in the behavior, but
failed to recognize it as Ute fan behavior.Anyway, the fact that BYU
can still lose to Utah and have a successful season proves that the Utah game
isn't the most important. A loss to BYU would devastate Ute fans!
Idaho: Uh, you have to go back to 1989! Once again you byU fans having to go
back decades to talk smack!! Welcome to the 21th centuryGo Utes!!
Vegas Ute, Thanks for that chest thumping moment. BYU has been there
and done that many times to Utah. Naval Vet, Never said
your arguments were not backed up by fact, just said they are weak. Just as weak
as my argument over head to head was. Fact is when a BYU fan post something that
you "don't like" you attack that and sometimes make it personal.
Just like I said on my post prior to these ones, after 2 more losing seasons and
no bowl games, Hill is going to fire Kyle and the only thing Ute fans will be
able to thump the chest about is the 13 year period where they dominated BYU in
which they won 3 more games and head to head 3 more times. All that and BYU was
still ranked higher 5 times to their 4 times during that span. Like I said,
pretty weak stuff.
Idaho cougar fan: 54-10 in your house with your 4 star latest-and-greatest QB.
Chest pounding dominance if I ever saw it!! byU's last win: byU with their
all-time winningest QB senior against the freshman Ute. Overtime win. Not much
to hang your hat on there.Why do you byU "fans" STILL have
to go back three decades to have anything to talk smack about? Your 15 minutes
of fame is up. Move on!!
idaho cougar fan:"If you want chest thumping, whose your daddy
dominate go back 25-30 years before that and BYU's dominance over Utah is
what it looks like."Obviously, Utah is the most important game
on your schedule. Otherwise, you wouldn't have felt the desperate need to
relive the rivalry "25-30" years ago.[*NOTE: "25"
yrs won't far back be enough. Utah leads the last quarter century 14-11.
You need to go all the way back to 1984 to retake the lead, and PRAY that we
don't beat you again in the Fall. *]There are no "weak"
arguments from me. I either always support my position with facts, or COULD
support them when challenged on its validity**. Just because you don't
"like" them, that doesn't make them "weak". **
Often my "facts" had been supported/proven in prior posts, so I
don't always feel compelled to repost them, but when challenged, I can
repost them [DNews moderators permitting].
sammy g:A byU "fan" asking what Utah has done lately? That
is truly genius!! byU fans can't talk any smack without having to go back
to 1984!! Truly genius!!You trollers just keep me in stitches!
Thanks for the entertainment.Go Utes!!
Point I want to make. Yes, Utah has better than BYU over the last 13 years. But
chest pounding dominate, not even close!!! Barely better than BYU. If you want
chest thumping, whose your daddy dominate go back 25-30 years before that and
BYU's dominance over Utah is what it looks like. How many big time teams
has Utah gotten to come to RES before they joined the Pac-10.2. How many big
time non conference games has Utah even had in the last 30 years? How many times
have they played the elite programs (not just in bowl games)? Naval Vet and all
other Ute trolls have Cougar envy because their best is not much better than
BYU's normal and that eats at them. If Utah can dominate us like BYU
dominated them for 30 years then you can pound your chest, but until then please
don't bring weak arguments into the discussion until you can TRULY dominate
@Naval VetI don't know if my last comment made the sight, but
in a nut shell Utah has dominated BYU since 2000. A few numbers, Utah's
record 109-51 BYU's 106-57. Wow, through Utah's golden era they have a
whopping 3 more wins in 13 years. Maybe we should go back 13 more years,
I'm SURE Utah was that close to BYU's record. Head to head Utah 8, BYU
5. You got us there again. Utah has DOMINATED us like BYU use to in the
80's and 90's. Wink, wink! Last 13 years Utah has been ranked higher
than BYU 4 times, BYU has been ranked higher than Utah 5 TIMES!. That can't
be right, Utah has been WAY BETTER than BYU no way they should be ranked higher
than Utah. Don't through out the strength of schedule crap either, from
2000 through now the out of conference schedule would embarrass Utah. Notre
Dame, USC, Virginia, FSU, Syracuse. That right their tells you a lot about how
each program is percieved.
Just the FAX:"A mediocre team beating another mediocre team in a
bowl doesn't mean much if you aren't even good enough to be
ranked."Does that include the 2012 Poinsettia Bowl?
Riverton Cougar:"If BYU loses to Utah in the head-to-head game,
but ends the season ranked higher, Utah fans will say head-to-head is more
important."Really? Utah fans? Seems to me that this would be a
more accurate depiction of the INDY-WACey fans. Afterall, Utah had been WINNING
the head-to-head game, yet its been Y fans who have been pointing to the final
rankings. Typical hypocritical coug."If BYU wins the game, but
ended ranked lower than Utah, Utah fans will point to the final rankings as the
best indicator."When had this EVER happened? You made that up.
How frantic and emotional of you."If Utah loses the game and is
ranked lower, Utah fans will point to strength of schedule (even if BYU's
is stronger) and their PAC conference affiliation."When had THIS
ever happened? You made THAT up too. How frantic and emotional of you.Two frantic and emotional points, PLUS a blatant demonstration of
hypocrisy, all in the same post? This must be the MOST important game on your
@Just the FAXMoreover...FACT: During the BCS era, 36% of
Utah’s bowl teams were ranked in the AP top 25 and 55% in the top 30:2003: Utah 17 Southern Miss 0 (AP #28 … final #42)2004: Utah 35Pitt 7 (#19 … final #25)2005:Utah 38 Georgia Tech 10 (#24 … unranked)2008:Utah 31Bama 17 (#4 … final #6)2010:Utah 3 Boise 26 (#10 … final #9)2011:Utah 30Georgia Tech 27 (#30 … unranked, while #29 BYU beat Tulsa and finished
#25 Coaches)FACT: Over the same period BYU beat “Bowl"
TroyTown:"If Utah fans were really as passionate about playing
USC as you claim, why was there absolutely ZERO smack on USC blogs here in LA
prior to the game?"That would be because, unlike our Indy-WACey
little brother, we actually RESPECT the Trojans. Unlike our Indy-WACey little
brother, they have a winning record against us. Unlike our Indy-WACey little
brother, they don't create fake handles "pretending" to be USC
fans, but rather are REAL Trojan fans.
DeepBlue:"Since 2008: BYU is 2-10 (17%) versus 12 ranked
opponents with wins coming against #18/#18 Utah and #16/#17 Utah State...Utah is
1-8 (13%) versus 9 ranked opponents with Utah's lone win coming against
ur/#25 BYU."Not so my delusional Indy-WACey little brother.
Since 2008, vs. ranked opponents, Utah had beaten #6 Alabama (2008), #7 TCU
(2008), #18 Oregon St. (2008), #25 Little Brother (2008), and then lost to #11
Oregon (2009), #12 Little Brother (2009), #9 Boise St. (2010), #16 Utah St.
(2012), and #20 Oregon St. (2012). That makes us 4-5 (44.4%); not 1-8.Utah's 44.4% > little brother's 16.7%Edge: Utah.HUGE edge!
Just the FAXOlympus Cove, UtahVegasUteNice frantic and
emotional try, but how many of Utah's bowl winning teams finished in the AP
Top 25?--------------TWO: #6 Bama 2008 (11-2) and #25
Pitt 8-4 (Pitt)The last time you beat a final bowl ranked team: See
1996, under Edwards and Chow.
1 other thing, even though Utah has had better recruiting classes (according to
the pundits) it has not helped them much in the Pac 12. I do help Utah does
well, (I know a Coug fan rooting for their rivals), but it makes the rivalry
game even better. Utah needs to start winning again because the BCS wins are
holding about as much weight as BYU's national championship almost 30 years
ago. The recruiting will lose steam because of mediocrity.
As I said 2 years ago when Utah was accepted to the Pac 10.2, they would be
cellar dwellers most every year, maybe win the south division once every 6-8
years and then maybe win the Pac championship every other time (12-16 years).
You heard it here first, after 2 more losing seasons and no bowl games for Utah,
Hill will fire Kyle W. after the 2014-2015 season. RES will be half full and
Utah will be back to where they were in the 80's and 90's. Forgotten
nobody's! Beat your chest Ute fans about being in the Pac 12, but the
writing is on the wall. Beating BYU will be the only thing you will have to brag
VegasUteNice frantic and emotional try, but how many of Utah's
bowl winning teams finished in the AP Top 25?A mediocre team beating
another mediocre team in a bowl doesn't mean much if you aren't even
good enough to be ranked.
@Uteanymous:You will ALWAYS have to go back to the 1980s to have the
advantage over Utah in football.Let's talk about the BCS
era:BCS top 25 finishes, Utah 5, byU 4. Utah's highest BCS
finish, #6 (twice), byU #16. And you might want to look up the definition of
"perennial". In the BCS era, byU finished the season ranked in either
the AP or coaches poll 6 times, Utah 5. Hardly "perennial" one way or
the other. In that span, Utah FINISHED the season twice in the top 5 in BOTH
polls, byU's highest finish during that span in either poll was 12.Add to that Utah's dominance over byU head-to-head, the
embarrassing disparity of players each program is putting into the NFL and, more
recently, Utah out-recruiting byU both in state and out!! Oh, and thanks for
Jake Murphy, Davion Orphey and Star Lotuleilei!! They obviously saw the future
of the two programs!!I'll give you the 80's, I'll
take THIS century!!Go Utes! Onward and Upward!!
2bcswins that mean nothingWhat have the Utes done lately in their
new conference?As previously mentioned... they have provided ample
wins for their brothers in the original PAC10 to further qualify them for bowl
games and NCAA tournament bids.Awesome!The clock was
reset two years ago partner. As BYU improves its schedule I hear nothing but
excuses about how tough things are in Uteville with SOS and the weekly grind.
Poor babies.What's it feel like being on a ship tilted 45
degrees and slipping into the abyss?"And the band played
Since a bowl game is the smack de jour of the byU "fans", let's
compare bowl games and other realities of the BCS era:Bowl GamesUtah: 11byU: 11Advantage: tieBowl winsUtah:
10byU: 6Advantage: UtahBiggest bowl wins against
ranked (end ranking) opponent:Utah: Alabama #6byU: Oregon St
#16Advantage: UtahBowl Winning percentage:Utah:
90.91%byU: 54.55%Advantage: UtahBCS Bowl gamesUtah: 2byU 0Advantage: UtahBCS Bowl winsUtah: 2byU 0Advantage: UtahBCS rankings:Top 25 final rankings -Utah: 5byU: 4Highest BCS final
rankUtah: 6 (twice)byU: 14Average final BCS rankingUtah: 15.2byU 16.75Advantage: Utah Utah UtahAP
and Coaches polls during BCS period:Years finished in top 25 in AP and/or
coached poll-Utah: 5byU: 6Advantage: byUHighest
ending ranking in poll-Utah: 2byU: 12Advantage: UtahAverage poll finish:Utah: 12.89byU: 18.45Advantage:
UtahBowl revenues -Let's just leave it as advantage Utah
to save further embarrassment to byU.No matter how you slice it -
Utah is by FAR the more successful team in the BCS era.
I meant 2011, the year that they ended the season ranked. The years are starting
to blend together. So, I'll clarify:In 2011 when BYU finished
ranked higher than Utah, BYU is considered the better team in 2011.
@ Riverton CougarBYU didn't finish ranked ahead of Utah in 2010
and were considered the better team by nobody. Blowout losses the UNR, USU,
FSU, AFA, and TCU. You guys Spanked UTEP though.
@y grad dad,Maybe just keep the silliness to yourself.
Riverton Cougar"The polls and rankings are an attempt to
determine the best teams in the country. When the pollsters come out with their
rankings, they ALREADY CONSIDER strength of schedule. Conclusion: in 2010 when
BYU finished ranked higher than Utah, BYU is considered the better team in
2010."You're using way too much common sense. The kids on
the hill will never buy it, especially whenever Utah finishes behind BYU in the
WACpaddled"BYU will build upon its record of losing to ranked
teams..."And Utah will build upon its record of losing to
UNRANKED teams.That's why BYU is a perennial Top 25 team and
Utah is a perennial unranked team.In the AP poll, the poll always
cited by Utah fans when referring to their 2004 and 2008 bcs teams:BYU: Ranked in AP Poll 11 Times (Preseason), 17 Times (Final), 236 Weeks
(Total)Utah: Ranked in AP Poll 2 Times (Preseason), 5 Times (Final), 77
Here's a clarification concerning the polls.The polls and
rankings are an attempt to determine the best teams in the country. When the
pollsters come out with their rankings, they ALREADY CONSIDER strength of
schedule. Meaning, when a team is ranked #4, it is because with all things
considered (strength of schedule included), they believe that team is the 4th
best team in the country at the time. Final rankings show who they believe the
best teams of the year are.Do you doubt that SOS isn't
considered? Here's your proof: Have you ever seen a team with a worse
record ranked higher than a team with a better record, even an undefeated team?
That is because the pollsters are taking SOS into account.Conclusion: in 2010 when BYU finished ranked higher than Utah, BYU is
considered the better team in 2010.
sammygSpringville, UTazute0Want some trends? Losing to Colorado, going bowl-less, conference leader board...4-5 then 3-6,
7-11 cumulative, losing to a WAC team, having your rival outrank you.Since all things McWacish, Wacish, etc do not count anymore, then the above
have to suffice.Predictions for this coming season... much the
same._______I agree. BYU will build upon its record of
losing to ranked teams, be owned by Utah, continue to have sub-par ESPN ratings,
ride the coat tails of ND, and lead the new band of indie brothers-New Mex St.
@SportsFanEither rankings matter or they don't. The exact same
groups of pollsters who ranked Utah 2004 #4/#5 and Utah 2008 #2/#4, ranked BYU
2006 #16/#15, 2007 #14/#15, 2008 #25/#21, 2009 #12/#12, and 2011 #26/#25.Who gave U the authority to decide that rankings only matter when they
favor the Utes?------------Obama!Those BYU
rankings are as impressive as Utah 2009 #18/#18 and 2011 #26/#23 rankings.Like the 2011 BYU team the 2010 Ute team also only played three games
and lost all three (TCU, ND, and Boise). The differnece we only got spanked by
two top 10 teams (TCU and Boise). Regardless, the 2010 Utah ranking
does not matter as well.
@sammyG..."I'm betting the Utes go bowl-less a second year in a row
after BYU hands you a loss in Provo that you will have to live with for 3
seasons."Why would we have to live with it for 3 seasons Sammy
if they won big if there? Head to head don't matter remember? You must have
forgot you have made that excuse a 1,000 times before putting this comment on
there.....LOL!! Head to head only matters for cougie fans if they win the
game...LOL!!Hey Sammy/cougie fans in the last 10 years who's
won more bowl games, more BCS bowl games, had more undefeated seasons and won
more head to head vs. eacth other? Can one of you cougie fans please list the
answers to those questions for us?
AZUTE1"BYU fan continues to "tout" overall record the
past couple of years, yet blatantly refuses to ever acknowledge SOS. UTAH has
been significantly better than byu during this current BCS Era by virtue of
winning the vast majority of their head-to-head games, PERIOD,
END-OF-STORY."Only in your crimson dreams.Utah's two game advantage in head-to-head during the Bronco/Kyle era is
trumped by Bronco's two game advantage in overall record and rankings.Despite the desperate attempts of our little brothers on the hill to
ignore reality, SOS IS considered when ranking teams and Utah's dismal
performance against conference bottom-dwelling teams like Colorado State, New
Mexico, Wyoming, 10-loss UNLV and 10-loss Colorado is also used in the final
rankings. Utah's LOSSES to bad teams is the primary reason Bronco has
finished ahead of Kyle in the final rankings 5 of 8 seasons. Bronco
is 74-29 overall and has been ranked ahead of Kyle in the rankings in 2006,
2007, 2009, 2011, and 2012.Kyle is 70-32 overall and has only
finished ahead of Bronco in the rankings in 2005, 2008 and 2010.
azute0Want some trends? Losing to Colorado, going
bowl-less, conference leader board...4-5 then 3-6, 7-11 cumulative, losing to a
WAC team, having your rival outrank you.Since all things McWacish,
Wacish, etc do not count anymore, then the above have to suffice.Predictions for this coming season... much the same.
goredU 'own' nothing but the distinction of being invited
as new-comers to the PAC10 and being lacking in production. From a disappointing
and embarrassing loss to Colorado in 2011 to losing to a WAC team (Go Aggies!)
who out ranked you, the utes have done little to substantiate their
membership.In addition to the above grand losses U also have the
embarrassment of being out-ranked by your rival after defeating them. Overall
utes have done nothing lately locally in their conference or on the national
stage and... might I add... in several sports.But the ultimate
disappointment... going bowl-less.Nothing epitomizes failure more
than coming up short and not extending your football season. Utes
couldn't win enough games in their conference to make it to seventh place
to play in their New Mexico Bowl let alone sixth place for the PAC's other
bowl tie-in of the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl. Ouch, that was
embarrassing then as it is today.Why?Because it's
about to happen again.'Own' that, will ya?
Sorry, I was tired when I wrote that last one. My bottom line meant to say that
Utah fans will always believe Utah is better because Utah is Utah and BYU is
BYU. They'll change the standards of comparison to whatever fits their
situation.If BYU loses to Utah in the head-to-head game, but ends
the season ranked higher, Utah fans will say head-to-head is more important. If
BYU wins the game, but ended ranked lower than Utah, Utah fans will point to the
final rankings as the best indicator. If Utah loses the game and is ranked
lower, Utah fans will point to strength of schedule (even if BYU's is
stronger) and their PAC conference affiliation.Sorry BYU fans, but
there's no convincing Utah fans that BYU could possibly be better than Utah
in any given year. Even if BYU were to win another championship next year,
remember that Utah is in the PAC-12, and that is worth at least 10
Uteology"Rankings do NOT matter when you have a 3 game schedule
and lose to all three teams"LOL at the biased, jealous spin of
the kids on the hill!Either rankings matter or they don't. The
exact same groups of pollsters who ranked Utah 2004 #4/#5 and Utah 2008 #2/#4,
ranked BYU 2006 #16/#15, 2007 #14/#15, 2008 #25/#21, 2009 #12/#12, and 2011
#26/#25.Who gave U the authority to decide that rankings only matter
when they favor the Utes?
BTW, it should be noted that during the 15 years constituting this current BCS
Era, BOTH schools have played in 11 bowl games.However, while BCS
Busting/Winning/Finishing Top-2/-4/Going undefeated TWICE/National-Stage
Glory/Becoming a BCS School/OWNING byu beating them on the football-field,
ANNUALLY, Mighty Big Brother UTAH has gone 10-1, while byu has struggled,
BIG-TIME, just simply to merely remain above .500 at 6-5. LOLPlease. Missing our first bowl game since 2002 by merely 1 game while beating
byu, yet again, head-to-head and also typically playing against a tougher SOS,,
hardly qualifies it as a trend or something. LOL
byu fan continues to "tout" overall record the past couple of years, yet
blatantly refuses to ever acknowledge SOS. UTAH has been significantly better
than byu during this current BCS Era by virtue of winning the vast majority of
their head-to-head games, PERIOD, END-OF-STORY. Nobody has annointed byu fan
the authority to suddenly switch gears and declare head-to-head results to be
somehow mysteriously irrelevant and, instead, only overall record and final
ranking to "count". HYSTERICAL.Please. byu annually plays
against a weaker schedule, which is 100% irrefutable [Idaho, NMSU, Idaho State,
Hawaii, etc., anybody?]Regarding rankings, take 2011 as a
prime-example. byu, LITERALLY, beat nobody of note during this season and got
utterly destroyed by UTAH on their homefield in epic-fashion, to the tune of
54-10, concluded it by beating a string of well-known patsies, only to then
magically surface at #25 in one, single Top-25 poll? LOL2011, like
every other year I could've chosen, was obviously voted upon by East coast
voters who merely saw their final record and never even remotely conceived of
actually reviewing their body-of-work, let alone actually doing so.
@no perspectiveThat you are on here so vehemently arguing otherwise
is proof enough that you are....shall we say.....spinning things just a bit.
Anyone that truly didn't care would never even comment let alone go to such
great lengths to deny it. They just wouldn't care. You obviously care,
truly, madly, deeply. LOL!
The flaw here is the poll the Deseret News conducted on the article was
addressed to (and open to) both Ute AND Cougar fans. So to say that the DN poll
results prove that Ute fans prefer going to a bowl game is wrong.I'll tell it how it is: Ute fans would rather beat BYU than go to a bowl
game. At least, they think beating BYU is a better indication of a successful
season than actually finishing with a winning record.My proof: Look
at all the comments from the last 6 months from Ute fans. They clearly think
that a win against BYU is better than bowling. They believe Utah was the better
team, although they didn't even finish with a winning record. Yet
they'll say USU was better than BYU because they were ranked higher. Bottom
line: BYU is never better than Utah because Utah is Utah and BYU is BYU. That
about sums it up.
goredOwning a team would suggest not only beating them head-to-head,
but overall as well.BYU finishing with better records and higher
rankings in five of the last eight years, belies U "owning" anything
more than individual game bragging rights in five of the last eight years.
TO FOCUS MORE CLEARLY ON THE SUBJECT,This comparison of "would
we rather go to a bowl game or beat byu", is, to me, a little ludacris and
illogical. Being from the Pac 12, how would we expect to make it to a BCS bowl
or even a bowl game without beating A non conference/non BCS opponent like BYU??
The BYU game is a very important game. The rivalry, the hatred, and the mutual
desire to beat one another make the game a very special one. However, I see the
BYU game as a stepping stone to a greater goal, a bowl game.Of
course we would rather go to a bowl game..,But can you have one
without the other??Go Utes!
@worfShouldn't you wait until at least one Utah PAC-12 class
has graduated before comparing Utah to SDSU and AF?Utah has 3 years
of BCS recruiting, we have no problem competing against teams like Wazzu and
BYU. It will take time to compete against the upper half of the PAC-12.To be honest should you be comparing Utah when your own team is 12-13 vs
BCS teams under Bronco. If Utah can't compete in a BCS conference then you
have to be honest nor can BYU.
worfAnd yet they own byu. What do your comments tell you about
Uteology:Be honest guy. Utah is the caliber of a San Diego State,
or Air Force.Competitive in the MWC, WAC, or Big Sky, but way over
their heads in the PAC. They're in last place in almost all sports.They just help the conference create more bowl eligible teams. Period.
@RockwellRankings don't matter, but somehow, beating ranked
teams still counts.--------------Nope!Rankings do NOT matter when you have a 3 game schedule and lose to all three
teams (Texas, Utah, TCU) see #25 BYU 2011 (SOS #94).Rankings do
matter when you are the only undefeated team in the nation to beat 4 ranked
teams, see #2 Utah 2008.Can you see the difference, if not it's
okay BYU will this year.
@Snack PACGood point.Would the Ute fans rather be
independent, consistently lose to their rival, play an inferior schedule, and
qualify for an inferior bowl?So it would be fair to ask the byu
fans...Would you rather be in the Pac12, consistently beat your rival,
play a Pac12 schedule, and not qualify for a bowl.Basically
it's asking the Ute fans if they would rather of been in byu's shoes
last year. I see it an unfair dumb poll created by a byu fan,
printed in a byu biased publication and intended to bait the Ute fans.I'll take our Pac12 membership and domination over byu any day of the
It's interesting the qualifiers Utah fans have had to put on their
responses in order to feel good about their choice.The original
question from the Utah blog tweet was this:"If U had to choose,
would you rather lose to BYU, finish at least 6-6 & a bowl game or beat BYU
& go 5-7"It wasn't a choice between beating BYU or some
other team.It wasn't a choice between losing to BYU or going to a
major bowl.It was a choice between losing to BYU and meeting the
bare minimum requirement to go to a lower-tier bowl or beating BYU and finishing
with a losing record and no bowl.
MyPerspective"Note there was/is no "smack" from USC,
either."The reason there isn't any smack from USC is they
don't consider Utah a real threat.During the depths of the
Crowton era, BYU was similarly honored by USC fans after making a dramatic
late-game comeback at USC.Trojan fans reserve their smack for teams
like UCLA, Stanford and Oregon.
MyPerspectiveA very good team can have a very easy schedule and a
very bad team can have a very difficult schedule. SOS only determines how much a
team has been challenged, not how good the team is.The current major
college football system is slanted highly in favor of teams in the
"major" conferences. You could put the defending Super Bowl Champions in
the MAC or C-USA and they would have almost no chance of winning the major
college football national championship simply because they would never be given
the chance. That's why we need a 16-team playoff. To level the playing
field and give every FBS team an equal chance of proving themselves.
The utes have been good for the PAC 12. They have made more teams bowl eligible,
and helped place more teams into the NCAA tournament.A wise
investment for the conference. That's why the cougs weren't invited.
MyPerspective"So, you acknowledge that the Utes have stepped up
to a far more challenging slate of games since joining their elite
Pac-12."No, I was being facetious.Utah, with their
PAC 12 schedule, only played TWO Top 25 teams in 2012.BYU, with their
Independent schedule, played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012. The bottom
half of BYU's was less challenging than Utah's, but if Utah had been
any good, Utah would have beaten Utah State and a couple of PAC teams with
winning records, and the Utes would have had a winning record and would have
been playing in a bowl game. It wasn't the difficulty of your schedule, it
was the mediocrity of your team, that resulted in a losing season.You had a gift-wrapped PAC South there for the taking in 2011, and
couldn't get past one of the worst teams in the country to take it.Stop whining about SOS and man up. You still haven't beaten a
single PAC team with a winning record.
Rockwell"A 13-0 record in the MWC is no better than a 7-6 record in
the PAC 12." So, you acknowledge that the Utes have stepped up
to a far more challenging slate of games since joining their elite Pac-12.
Similarly, given the near identical schedule for byu until two years ago, you
acknowledge that byu has played a weak schedule.At least one byu
understands what is going on and openly admits it. There's hope.
TroyTown"Your hypothetical mumbo, jumbo of what Utah might have done
IF, is meaningless."Reread my post. I said nothing whatsoever
about what "might have happened". I said we will never know if the fans
would have rushed the field after the USC game because the opportunity was lost
when Utah lost the game. Further, I noted that the challenge byu faced with
crowd noise was nothing compared to what USC had to overcome after the first
half. Don't bother disputing that assertion unless you attended both
games.As for the absence of "smack" on USC blogs...you may
not know this but USC fans gave the Utes a standing ovation as they left the
field at USC in the inaugural Pac-12 game in 2011. USC is a first class fan
base and Utah has utmost respect for USC. Note there was/is no "smack"
from USC, either.Finally, my comment regarding byu fans seeking
attention is in reference to this mindless and seemingly endless drivel about
the byu game being the most important to Utah fans. It isn't. Why
can't byu fans, such as yourself, accept that? It isn't your call.
Accept it and move on.
Marked it Down"That's like saying Utah fans would take their 8-5
season in the PAC 12 over their Sugar Bowl winning 13-0 season in the
MWC."Nobody said they would take the 2012 team over the 2008
team. So, how can you compare?The 2008-2009 Utes beat a Bama team
that nearly beat Florida for the chance to play OK in the National Championship.
Utah thumped Bama. Utah had the only 13-0 season. While Florida thumped OK. Everyone knows it should have been Utah not OK in the National
Championship. There was no way in without a BCS conference.Utah hit
the ceiling twice in four years. They are the original BCS Busters. Did it done
it. Do you really think it would be wiser to stay in that
position?Now, they are in the BCS. They no longer have to go
undefeated just to play in a BCS Bowl.You know for a fact, that if Utah
was in the BCS in 2008, they would not have finished 5-8 and would have been in
the Rose Bowl and perhaps the Championship. Florida was not the #1 team.If you think the 2008 team would be 5-8 in the PAC, then the delusion is
not the Utah fan's.
MyPerspectiveYou're blaming BYU fans seeking attention for Utah
fans rushing the field three times in the same game?Seriously?Your hypothetical mumbo, jumbo of what Utah might have done IF, is
meaningless.If Utah fans were really as passionate about playing USC
as you claim, why was there absolutely ZERO smack on USC blogs here in LA prior
to the game?
Uteology"Why not count Utah's best year..."Because it's been all down hill since.You're in the PAC
12 now. Nothing in your previous little boys conference counts, at least
according to the silly argument that is now apparently all the rage up on the
hill.Rankings don't matter, but somehow, beating ranked teams
still counts.A 13-0 record in the MWC is no better than a 7-6 record
in the PAC 12. Two of the four ranked teams U beat in 2008 were MWC teams, so
obviously their rankings, as well as Utah's, were bogus.Does
that about cover it?
Vlad,Here's your problem - "I am sure..." You are sure about
this, and you are sure about that, how about we talk some facts, ok sport? For
the last two years USC topped the survey on block u as the most important game.
If the byu cougars thought the stadium noise was difficult to play in last year,
I can tell you that it was NOTHING compared to the noise and enthusiasm at the
USC game through the first half. If the Utes had won that game
would the MUSS and the fans have rushed the field? We'll never know. You
can't apply the whimsical byu fan wishful thinking and say, the field would
not have been rushed because Utah fans only rush the field in a win over byu.
You cannot say that...you don't know what didn't happen because of a
loss. So, when we say that the byu game is NOT the most important
game on the Ute schedule, who are you to argue? Get it, now? Good
grief, you people are absolutely starving for attention.
Marked it DownPark City, UTUteology"Go ask TCU
fans if they would take 11-2 MWC (2011) over 7-6 Big 12 (2012)."bwaaahahaha!If you honestly think that TCU fans would take a
mediocre 7-6 season in the Big 12 over their Rose Bowl winning 11-2 season in
the MWC, you're delusional.---------------Giggles...2011 MWC TCU went 11-2 beating Louisiana Tech (8-5) in
the Poinsettia Bowl2012 Big 12 TCU went 7-6 losing to Michigan State
(7-6) in the Buffalo Wild Wings BowSo please take all the time you
need to find out what conference they would rather play in.I would
give up the 10-3 MWC seasons over playing the in the PAC-12 and going 8-5 or
5-7.Going 13-0 is special, no one gives up those seasons. Specially
when you beat 4 ranked teams in a season.
Juice 19Since you guys have now moved on and that this new poll
confirns that bowling is now your top priority...I'm betting
the Utes go bowl-less a second year in a row after BYU hands you a loss in Provo
that you will have to live with for 3 seasons.All the sweeter... it
will be "delicious". (thanks Chris B for that word!) LOL
"Since 2008:BYU is 2-10 (17%) versus 12 ranked opponents with
wins coming against #18/#18 Utah and #16/#17 Utah State.Utah is 1-8
(13%) versus 9 ranked opponents with Utah's lone win coming against ur/#25
BYU."----------Since 2008? Why not count
Utah's best year (#2 AP) but count BYU's best year 2009 (#12 AP) since
1996?Oh yea if you count 2008 then Utah is 5-8 with wins over #6,
#7, #18, #25 BYU in 2005 and then #25 BYU in 2011?
Marked, when someone claims the Rose Bowl was played in Qualcomm Stadium between
a MWC team and a WAC team, who is delusional?
@MyperspectiveI am sure that the Utes always rush the field after a win
against only the third or fourth most important team. What do you do on the most
important victory? Burn down the stadium? Well.... Don't expect flames
Uteology"Go ask TCU fans if they would take 11-2 MWC (2011) over
7-6 Big 12 (2012)."bwaaahahaha!If you honestly think
that TCU fans would take a mediocre 7-6 season in the Big 12 over their Rose
Bowl winning 11-2 season in the MWC, you're delusionalThat's like saying Utah fans would take their 8-5 season in the PAC 12
over their Sugar Bowl winning 13-0 season in the MWC.Are Utah fans
really that frantic and emotional to make a point even they aren't buying?
U 90"I get a kick out of BYU fans like scott from Alpine (aka
Duckhunter) reminding us that Ute fans rushed the field after the 2012 Utah
victory."Sorry to disappoint U, but I'm not Duckhunter. Since you're not from around here, at least according to your
posted location, I'll let you in on a little secret - there are THOUSANDS
of BYU fans living in Alpine, UT.Frankly, I couldn't care less
whether the Utes rush the field after beating BYU or not, but to claim that you
don't care about the game anymore AFTER the entire MUSS rushed the field
THREE times for the same game only 9 month ago is absurd.BYU fans
will absolutely rush field after beating Utah this year, but we aren't the
ones in group denial claiming that we don't care about the game anymore; we
just don't care about the game to the exclusion of the entire remainder of
U 90"Scott/Duckunter, why don't you take a little trip on
youtube yourself and watch BYUs last win over Utah in 2009."LOL!BYU fans aren't the ones claiming that they've left
Utah behind and don't care about the rivalry anymore."Regardless of the year a 6-6 or 7-6 team and a loss to Utah, I
wouldn't take either. I rather OWN your team..."What a
surprise, a BYU-obsessed Utah fan who cares more about beating BYU than about
having a winning season."But then again your[sic] a BYU fan what
do you know about playing a real schedule."We know enough about
"real" schedules to know that they don't mean diddly if U
don't WIN!As CG of Orem already posted, "Since
2008:BYU is 2-10 (17%) versus 12 ranked opponents with wins coming
against #18/#18 Utah and #16/#17 Utah State.Utah is 1-8 (13%) versus
9 ranked opponents with Utah's lone win coming against ur/#25 BYU."Although not great, FOUR straight bowl wins and #12/#12, ur/#25 finishes
is MUCH better than than TWO bowl wins and a LOSS and #18/#18, ur/#23 finishes.
@uteBustersY: BYU finished 7-6 in 2010 with a bowl win.U: Utah
finished 5-7 in 2012 with no bowl.Most fans would take Y over U in a
heart-beat, regardless of who the wins and losses were against.--------------Regardless of the year a 6-6 or 7-6 team and a loss
to Utah, I wouldn't take either. I rather OWN your team over owning 6-7
UTEP.Correction, Utah played a real schedule with no bowl. If we
played your schedule we would be in a bowl.Go ask TCU fans if they
would take 11-2 MWC (2011) over 7-6 Big 12 (2012). I think MOST will tell you
they would take the Big 12 competition.But then again your a BYU fan
what do you know about playing a real schedule.
I get a kick out of BYU fans like scott from Alpine (aka Duckhunter) reminding
us that Ute fans rushed the field after the 2012 Utah victory. scott/duckunter, why don't you take a little trip on youtube yourself and
watch BYUs last win over Utah in 2009. Guess what Y "fans" did after
the game? You guessed it, they rushed the filed in an absolute frenzy. Please
don't pretend this game means more to Utah than it does BYU. Your
hypocrisy is glaring duckhunter.
UteologyYour comments MIGHT be more credible if you managed to get
the years and records correct.A winning season culminating in a bowl
win is MUCH better than any losing season and no bowl!Y: BYU
finished 7-6 in 2010 with a bowl win.U: Utah finished 5-7 in 2012 with no
bowl.Most fans would take Y over U in a heart-beat, regardless of
who the wins and losses were against.
My guess would be that the majority of those voting for the rivalry game are not
Y Dad - Did you or any of your byU "fans" actually read the original
"twitter" poll? There were a total of 13 respondents to the original
poll, per the twitter site. 13! You guys are so ready to swipe all Utah FANS
with the same brush over the representation of 13 people responding to a VERY
unscientific poll? That says volumes about byU objectivity.Go
@Y Grad / Y Dad: "most sane BYU fans would prefer the winning season even
if it includes a ho hum bowl victory."Not all winning seasons
are equal. A) 2009: 6-6 in a 3 team MWC and a win over UTEP(6-7) in
New Mexico Bowlvs.B) 2013: 5-7 PAC-12 schedule and win
over BYU So BYU fans prefer A over B. I rather OWN BYU then have a
chance to OWN team like UTEP. Why? Ask Max Hall and Lenny Gomes.
Juice19South Jordan, UTYou are only hearing what you want to
hear."Most sane cougar fans would take a win over the Utes in
2010 vs. a New Mexico bowl win over UTEP, or how about a win over Tulsa in 2011,
or the mighty San Diego Aztecs in 2012."You will recall that the
original premis was whether someone would take a win over their rival (but a
losing season and no bowl) over a winning record and a bowl victory. Yes,
I'd rather beat Utah than UTEP, but most sane BYU fans would prefer the
winning season even if it includes a ho hum bowl victory."Please
stop saying your odds are better based off the facts you chose to use..."Huh?"Accept that the Utes have moved on and up."I'd love to. I just don't see much evidence of that.
Y Grad / Y DadYour emotions are running high. I recall byu
fans rushing the field in Provo and then assaulting Utah coache's wives.
Then, a byu player player declaring on tv, to the delight of byu fans, how much
he "hates" the University of Utah. LOL! It's clear how much the
game means to byu fans. However, since then, the Utes own byu and
Provo and have moved to a better neighborhood. Utah doesn't need byu and
frankly, I am looking forward to the next two years without byu. I'm
hoping that type of scheduling will continue well into the future.
Y Grad / Y DadRichland, WA Semantics don't really deter
from your undertones. Important, sweet, awesome, better. Put lipstick on a pig
and it's still a pig. Listen to yourself...Oh, puleeaze! What
would you like us to say? "Well, shazam. we've lost to u guys three
years in a row, I guess there isn't any reason to bother going to the game
this year. I wonder if a friendly Ute would like my tickets because I sure
don't need to waste my time going to the game in Provo this year."You've been saying the same thing over and over. STOP! Most sane
cougar fans would take a win over the Utes in 2010 vs. a New Mexico bowl win
over UTEP, or how about a win over Tulsa in 2011, or the mighty San Diego Aztecs
in 2012. BYU is 8-10 in since 1989 in bowl games, and is 11-13
against the Utes in same time frame. Please stop saying your odds are better
based off the facts you chose to use and accept that the Utes have moved on and
up. Be a fan, just don't be one of those fans.
scott,I watched the video and enjoyed watching your team desperately fail
3 times in a row. lol.Y Grad / Y DadThe more self righteous
and arrogant the byu fans get on the on these boards, the more we enjoy our
victories, so expect us to rush the field 10 times this year and tear down the
Juice19South Jordan, UT"Every cougar fan has said the same
thing about the annual rivalry game. The last two comments have been about wait
until this year when the Y beats the U. Its the same song and dance every year.
Just wait until... Or remember when..."Oh, puleeaze! What would
you like us to say? "Well, shazam. we've lost to u guys three years in
a row, I guess there isn't any reason to bother going to the game this
year. I wonder if a friendly Ute would like my tickets because I sure
don't need to waste my time going to the game in Provo this year."All the sweeter, no more important.
Every cougar fan has said the same thing about the annual rivalry game. The last
two comments have been about wait until this year when the Y beats the U. Its
the same song and dance every year. Just wait until... Or remember when... Lets
live in the now people and realize that the Utes have moved on and that some of
the Ute fans are still doing so. My opinion is that BYU actually does want to
play Utah more than Utah wants to play BYU, simply because it's harder for
BYU to make their schedule and the Utes are looking to play in easier games
before their conference schedule starts up. Spin it however you want, it's
very entertaining to say the least.
ekuteLayton, UT"And every year that you get beat by your
rival, the less important it becomes(or so you tell yourself). Fair
enough?"Thanks for the attempt at civil discourse.And every year that you beat your rival, the more important it becomes(but
don't admit it out loud). This WILL make the Y vicotry over U this year
all the more sweet. Not more important, but more sweet.Fair enough!
ekuteLOL at the usual delusional spin from the hill.It's doesn't matter how long your win streak is, losing to BYU this
year will hurt just as much as ever. Utah fans only pretend that it's
becoming less important, but your actions - rushing the field THREE times last
season - prove that you're nothing but talk.If you need your
memory jogged, pull up the YouTube videos of last season's game (there are
many) and see for yourself just how laughable it is for any Utah fan to be
claiming that beating BYU is becoming "less important".My
personal favorite is suspenders boy, but that's another subject.
I love how the Utes miss one year after several appearances in bowl games and
this the leg the Cougs stand on for the trivial banter. Unimpressed by the lack
of fire power and intelligence used by these so called BYU fans. The one article
that has a negative connotation about "Ute Fans" and the cougs come out
in droves to get the witty one liners in. Where were all of you the past three
years after getting beat by the Utes? All you same cougar fans were on here
beating your chest about beating the Utes. Now all you have is what game is more
important to the Ute fans? This is weak. If I remember right, when the Utes
announced that they were no longer going to be playing BYU, all of the coug fans
were upset and the majority of Ute fans were fine with it. We've moved on.
You should too.
@worfre: My previous comment.Go Utes.
What difference does it make--Hillary ClintonI don't care if
the utes, or cougs ever play again. Ain't no big thing.
Now I at least understand where all the byu fan-dom hype started, lol! Y Grad / Y Dad"At first, I thought, "Oh, this will be an
article to try to restore some balance to the Ute blog thing." Then I
quickly realized, I was wrong. No balance here." lol!Vladhagenhobbes1012003Utah is heading into their 3rd
year in an elite conference. For the 3rd year running, a Utah sports Web Site
block u has polled Utah fans asking what the most important game is for the
coming season. 2011 and 2012 the byu game checked in at #4. This year,
#3...723 responses to the poll. Congrats on the improvement but it clearly
shows that the byu game isn't as important to Utah fans as byu fans think
it should be. That's the way it is when a school moves to the
big leagues. Accept it and move on.
And every year that you get beat by your rival, the less important it becomes(or
so you tell yourself). Fair enough?
At first, I thought, "Oh, this will be an article to try to restore some
balance to the Ute blog thing." Then I quickly realized, I was wrong. No
balance here.So let me try.Look, it was a Ute blog, the
respondents were Ute fans, and within that context, it was an understandable,
non-scientific interrest item. Take it out of context, put it in the public
spotlight, and it's a little embarrassing.Not unlike Max
Hall's comments were for most BYU fans. Privately, among ourselves, to one
degree or another, most BYU fans have at least a particle of the same feelings.
But throw it out there in public, and most of us disavowed his remarks. As we
should have.The whole blog question was rhetorical. It was based on
a straw dog. In public, most of us would refuse to answer such an either-or
question because the truth isn't anywhere close to that territory.Beating (insert your rival here) is a goal, an important one, but not the most
important one.. That is what we all would prefer, given the choice. Meet as
many of your goals as possible.Fair enough?
This has gotten beyond ridiculous. Who cares? Most college football programs
have conference championships, and attending bowl games as their top priorities
(and national championship for the elite programs which neither Utah or BYU can
claim). The reason Utah fans obsess about BYU is that their primary goals of
winning a conference championship and going to a bowl are becoming unrealistic
pipe dreams, so they have to resort to beating BYU for some solace. BYU may be
#3 on their priority list but when #s 1 & 2 aren't happening anytime
soon, it doesn't make much difference.
According to an unscientific poll, 99.9 percent of the byu fans voted in both of
the Ute polls.
Spokane Ute, BYU is undefeated in their entire football history. Before 1972,
they only scrimmaged, so those don't count, and since then they've won
each and every game that they didn't give away (which don't count as
losing). Quite impressive, really.
At least when you win a bowl game; the oppistiion gives credit where credit is
due. When you beat BYU, you are still not the better team. The officials gave
you the game. The Utes got Lucky. BYU fans will do anything but give Utah
credit. At least many of the ones on these threads. Heck, head to head games
mean absolutely nothing in determining the better team according to the BYU
Homers!!Pretty sad when you think about it.
Each game is all about conference positioning. The last game in the conference
to a school 50 miles away is a rivalry.This is now just bragging
rights at the kitchen table.
I love the wins over BYU, but that is 95% a family thing since I am the only
sane person in a (large) family sea of blue. Other than family bragging rights,
I would much rather prefer a bowl win.I love how nobbes is
paint-brushing all Utes with one brush. I think we should take his statement
about being glad for the hiatus and make the bold statement that "of course
the byU fans are back peddling about how important it is to beat Utah".
That would make about as much sense!!Go Utes!! Can't wait
until August 29!! Three more LOOOONG months!!
hobbes and vlad, because all Ute fans everywhere actually participated in this
first unadvertised poll, right? And because your cousin is the official
spokesperson for all Ute fans, right? I never knew about this Twitter poll, nor
do I put any stock into it because nobody in my circles knew about it, and I
would wager that a large percentage of the commenters here never caught wind of
it, either. It's another case of the DN (successfully) making articles in
the absence of any real events. I have my opinion on the subject, as do all;
accusing people who presented their opinions as "back peddling" is just
conjecture. What proof do you have that those individuals voted one way or the
other in the original poll?
Of course the Ute fans are back peddling about how important it is to beat BYU.
once an article was written and it became public they all changed their minds. I
know plenty of Ute fans that are willing to go 1-11 as long as that one win is
against BYU. especially if BYU has a great season and the one blemish is a loss
to Utah. Beating BYU is the ONLY thing alot of Utah "Fans" care about.
Im not saying ALL fans, but alot of them. My cousin is one of them. I am
personally really glad the rivalry game is taking a hiatus. both sides just need
to move on.
I think that some of the responses to this poll stem merely from trying to save
face over the fact that a poll came out claiming the opposite. Another thing to
keep in mind is that if Utah cannot beat BYU, they probably have no hope of
going to a bowl.....it is sort of hard to lose to BYU and then somehow come from
nowhere and beat Stanford. Of course BYU wants to beat the Utes. It
is a practice sometimes referred to as "winning." But, that being said,
I sure was glad to be able to sit and watch BYU win a bowl game last December.
Let's also remember that BYU beat the Utes in 2009. It seems odd how Ute
fans (@ute4ever) like to point to that like it was "so long" ago. Let us
remember that that was after the famed Sugar Bowl win.
Of course this is what Utah fans would prefer. A bowl game is so much more
valuable than a win over BYU. I'm not trying to marginalize BYU or the
rivalry, but a wins against the PAC12 opponents is much more important now than
wins over any non-conference game, including BYU. I would rather lose to BYU,
Utah State, and Weber State but win the PAC12 South than go 3-0 in state and
suck it up in conference. "We've moved on" is a bit cliché
for Utah fans, but it is really true. The rivalry is great, but it's not
the goal Utah sets out for anymore. "Win the conference" is what Whitt
always has said was the goal. That now excludes BYU. I'll
take winning against BYU (and Utah has done plenty of that in the last decade),
but conference wins trump all now.It would be interesting to reverse
the poll. I would suspect that more BYU fans would take a win versus Utah now,
especially since they haven't tasted victory in so long.