Comments about ‘Like father, like brother: Fred Whittingham Jr. followed family's footsteps to the University of Utah’

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Published: Thursday, May 30 2013 6:18 p.m. MDT

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Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@Cougsndawgs

Miami was 22 years ago... yet probably the last time BYU had a meaningful victory.

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@sammyg

Happy with BYU's recruiting?

Of course you are... when your schedule is populated with WAC cupcakes mid-major 2 star recruits work just fine.

But don't expect a steady diet of BCS teams to lay down for those mid-major recruits like your typical WAC patsies.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

Howie:
It never sinks in does it? BYU played 5 top 25 teams last year, Utah only 2. BYU avg opponent BCS ranking (most accurate ranking system) was 55.16, Utah was 47.63. Yeah, so much tougher schedule. Give the WAC crap a rest, in 2011 maybe that would fly, but according to the numbers it's just BS for 2012. I also realize Miami was 22 yrs ago, thanks. I was pointing out how stupid the arguments were about Ty Detmers heisman being won because of weak opponents, and pointing out that Miami was no "cupcake" and he sliced them up like a surgeon to the tune of 406 yards...try and follow please.

UtesBy5
Syracuse, UT

Cougsndawgs:

Yes, Detmer did have an outstanding career but would it have been as great if he had played in a tougher conference? Probably not. Yes he did have a nice game against Miami in 1990 but Texas A&M was another story. By the way, Detmer threw 28 picks during his Heisman season and more picks than TDs in his pro career.

Yes, BYU did have an outstanding season in 1984 but would they have been undefeated if they had played in a tougher conference? Probably not.

How many Heisman Trophy winners are drafted 230th overall in the 9th round? Detmer was in the right place at the right time for a Heisman Trophy.

How many National Championship teams play a bowl game in a pre-Christmas mid-tier bowl game against a non-ranked 6-5 team that finished tied for 6th in their conference of 10 teams? BYU was fortunate in 1984.

Playing against WAC competition did have it's advantages.

BYU will play their most difficult schedule in school history this year. Cougar fans will realize just how difficult it is to play BCS caliber teams week after week. Best of luck.

EdGrady
Idaho Falls, ID

Another 5-7 season and the Whittingham clan will have great disdain for their former employer - the University of Utah.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

UtesBy5:
Very reasonable assessment. I do think BYU was fortunate in 1984, and everything lined up nicely for them to finish number one. Against tougher competition it's hard to say what the results would have been. No one expected Utah to beat Alabama in 2008 despite nearly losing in the regular season to 3-9 Michigan, 4-8 New Mexico, and narrow victories over AFA and TCU that they easily could have lost. I think Lavell Edwards was right when he said going undefeated requires some measure of luck at times. As far as Heisman winners, we all know that many have gone late in the draft and not had successful NFL careers, but the Heisman isn't based on how good a pro prospect they are. I also agree that BYU and Detmer built a legacy on WAC competition, but when ute fans whine about that it just sounds like jealousy considering they had the same opportunity against the same WAC competition and didn't make it happen.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

UTAH not only played ranked opponents in '08, they beat 4 which finished the season ranked, including 2 in The Top-10, 1 of which spent 1 1/2 months at #1. There's a huge difference between playing teams finishing ranked and beating them than to play against them and losing to them. There's also a huge difference between beating them at home and beating them away from home.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

Brigham Young

Texas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at: they finished #1.

Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma came very close in 1956).

BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3, placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools.

And yet their performance was as weak as their schedule.

They won five games by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a 24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion."

How bad was Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15 against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

So how did BYU end up #1? Well, for one thing, BYU was greatly aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20 and you see only one team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie. Everyone else had at least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose Bowl bid because Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference champion (though they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team, Florida, was hit with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one wanted to reward a "cheater." So the timing was right.

Of course, in 2007 a 2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team that looked a lot like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in 1984 was a zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing. In any case, it had never happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have been quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and since.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

"I'll tell you something else that's 100% foreign to BYU fans...losing to 10 loss weaklings like Colorado and UNLV, sub .500 seasons and bowless post seasons."

Do you mean the same, exact UNLV which byu lost TWICE to, including AT HOME? LOL

RE: CU--We beat byu 54-10 in provo in 2011....Think about it.

"And please...you didn't take USC to the wire last year, that game wasn't even as close as the score indicated and anyone who watched it would agree...the score was 38-21 late before Utah scored a TD to close the gap and that was all after sleep walking the 1st qtr and spotting U 14 points."

Actually, we FORCED 2 TOs and EARNED those 14-PTS. Furthermore, the score was 24-21 in the 4th-QTR before, USC got a fluke 83-YD bomb TD-Pass and a fluke PICK-6.

"What excuses/spin will you come up with when BYU goes 8-4, or 9-3 against the 2013 schedule? I'm sure you'll think of something."

HYSTERICAL--byu will be the luckiest team on Earth, should they even break-even and finish the regular season at 6-6. Nice try.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

During this current BCS Era, BOTH UTAH/byu have reached 11 bowl games. 2X BCS Bowling/WINNING UTAH is a resounding 10-1, while indy-WACer byu has struggled to keep their collective-head above .500 at 6-5.

Furthermore, UTAH has now won 3 straight against byu, 4 of 5, 8 of 11 and owns a COMMANDING lead in the overall record, 56-34-4.

Good times, brethren, good times, indeed.

Howard S.
Taylorsville, UT

@AZUTE1

G.A.M.E. S.E.T. M.A.T.C.H.

AZUTE1 destroys the little brothers down south.

Good stuff...

Chewbacca
Magna, UT

The cougars had a nice run through the WAC of the 80's. I have a lot of respect for Lavell. But, your "legacy" AND a buck fifty will get you a Big Gulp at 7-11. It hasn't gotten you into a single BCS bowl game, or a BCS conference. It hasn't translated into any serious accomplishments in the 21st century. When will your "legacy" pay some dividends on the field?

VegasUte
Las Vegas, NV

@ Go Red - you also forgot to mention that the Heisman committee actually changed how and when they gave out the award to avoid another Detmer embarrassment. They changed the voting and the timing of the award so that every candidate actually finishes their respective season before voting is completed. Never again will they be embarrassed by giving out the award then having the recipient get BLOWN OUT by a weak, WAC team the same day. Detmer was great, and would have deserved the Heisman before the Hawaii debacle, but he NEVER would have got the trophy after the Hawaii loss, and rightly so.

As far as 1984 mythical NC goes, byU also never would have had a sniff at the title game under the BCS system. They may have qualified for a BCS bowl game that year, but we all know they would have fallen horribly (see Hawaii) based on their performance against a poor 6-6 Michigan - who they BARELY beat.

I just love how all the byU "fans" are all over these Utah stories, yet on Cougar stories ..... crickets!!

Go Utes!! Can't wait for 8/29!!!

VegasUte
Las Vegas, NV

One thing that I found hilarious - here is a story about a Utah coach and the comments are filled with byU trollers and Utah haters. byU trollers convince themselves that they are justified in negative comments because Utah fans are "classless" and are always writing negative things on byU stories. Well I just read a good story about Brandon Doman and looked at all the comments. Not a single comment from Utah trollers, not even the regulars. But there were a lot of comments from byU "fans" bashing Doman while he's down.

tsk tsk!!

Go Utes!!

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

AZUTE:
"Do you mean the same, exact UNLV which byu lost TWICE to, including AT HOME? LOL"
And spin and spin we go...nothing new for you. BYU lost both times to UNLV during the Crowton era when BYU finished less than .500 themselves and UNLV didn't have a 10 loss team either time. Utah on the other hand lost in an epic shutout 27- ZERO to a 10 loss UNLV (the only conference victory the Rebs had that yr lol) while Utah was 9-4...epic fail.

"RE: CU--We beat byu 54-10 in provo in 2011....Think about it."
Yeah, think about it...as long as you're talking about flukes, BYU finished 10-3 that year with a 1 pt loss to a Texas team that was clearly better than Utah, and by 10 points to MWC champion TCU in a hard fought game on the road. Clearly Utah wasn't as good and BYU wasn't as bad as that score indicated, because Utah wasn't even close to being as good as TCU or Texas. Colorado was still 1-11 and one if the worst teams in college football..."think about it".

Two For Flinching
Salt Lake City, UT

"What excuses/spin will you come up with when BYU goes 8-4, or 9-3 against the 2013 schedule? I'm sure you'll think of something."

I can't predict the future, but I wouldn't bet the farm on BYU winning more than 7 games.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Cougsndawgs:

"Utah on the other hand lost in an epic shutout 27- ZERO to a 10 loss UNLV."

BJ sat out the first half of that game, and was only brought back into the game because it was clear that his backup (Grady) wasn't going to get it done. BJ had separated his shoulder 3-wks earlier, and had trouble throwing the ball.

As for the shut out, yes, we WERE "shut out" in that game, but it wasn't because we couldn't score. We could have...once BJ was inserted back into the game. We turned the ball over on downs twice, all within FG range, and after BJ was knocked back out of the game late in the 4th, Grady IMMEDIATELY threw an INT -- in the endzone -- with 10-sec. remaining in the game. The reason why we didn't score, was because the ONLY way to impact the outcome of the game, would be via TDs. Whether we lose by 1 or lose by 27, it still reads the same in the conference standings.

Did you not watch that game, or were you just being frantic and emotional?

Reno Cougs Fan 68
Reno, NV

I would like to point out to my brother Ute fans that pre-season and early polls are not based on games played that year but on reputation built on more than one season! Top 25 teams have history so they get rankings, if it were based just on one or two seasons then Utah would have won titles for 2004 and 2008! Go back and look at what BYU did in 1983 and before, that is how they got the respect and votes that led to a unanimous title in 1984!!!

Go Cougs!!!
Go Utes!!!

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

Only in utah county does losing to UNLV twice and losing to them at home equate to being somehow even remotely being better than losing to them on the road merely once, only in utah county. LOL

"BYU finished 10-3 that year with a 1 pt loss to a Texas team that was clearly better than Utah"

Hysterical. UT finished with the identical record as UTAH and struggled to beat a patsy-byu at home just one week before UTAH went on the road and utterly destroyed them on their homefield, 54-10. Just imagine what CU would've done to byu then. LOL

Furthermore, byu would've been lucky to register one, single win against the SOS CU played against in 2011!

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