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Utah football: Beat BYU or go to a bowl? Utah fans say rivalry game victory more important

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  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    June 10, 2013 4:48 p.m.

    "If one of the teams really believed they were better than BYU, wouldn't they have played them?"

    I'm betting it had more to do with which bowl had the bigger pay-out.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 3, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    If one of the teams really believed they were better than BYU, wouldn't they have played them? Would you turn down an offer to play for the national championship game, especially if you thought that it would be an easy win because it seemed the other team was untested?

    The main thing is that same polls that crowned BYU the national champions still exist today, and they still consider strength of schedule. So, BYU was the 1984 national champions despite their schedule, not because of their schedule.

    Besides, consistency really pays off.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 3, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    @ Riverton

    "Using your logic that BYU was only 5 points ahead of the 24th best team in 1984, that means that in 2008 the Utes were only 3 points above one of the worst teams in college football."

    No, because that same Utah team proved they were better by beating one of the very best teams in college football, Alabama, in their back yard in the Sugar Bowl. HUGE difference.

    "BYU wasn't challenged because neither Wash nor Nebraska wanted to play them."

    Agreed. Not BYU's fault, but the system's fault. Everyone realized how ridiculous this was, and it changed forever.

    "You can't say a team is not good because of SOS, does weak SOS mean Boise isn't a good team?"

    No. Perfect example. Boise didn't get it's recognition by barely beating it's weak SOS. It beat up that schedule and then went on to BEAT GOOD TEAMS IN MAJOR BOWLS. The 84 Cougars never beat any ranked teams, or played in any major bowls. Their accomplishment was consistently beating the worst teams college football had to offer. See the difference?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 3, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    @ GO_COUGARS!

    Most good teams will struggle with bad teams. In 2008, the same Utah team that ended up beating Alabama in the BCS bowl barely squeaked by lowly New Mexico 13-10. Using your logic that BYU was only 5 points ahead of the 24th best team in 1984, that means that in 2008 the Utes were only 3 points above one of the worst teams in college football.

    The fact remains that BYU wasn't challenged because neither Washington nor Nebraska wanted to play BYU for the national championship game (however, there is evidence to suggest BYU would have beaten either team anyway).

    You can't say a team is not good because of SOS; does the weak SOS mean Boise State is not a good football team? A good team is a good team because they are a good team, not because of who they play.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 2, 2013 5:24 p.m.

    @ Riddles in the Dark

    To your last point, I am happy that BYU was awarded the championship in 84. Even though they avoided any good teams to get there, they were still ranked number 1 at the end of the season, and should've been able to play Washington in a bigger bowl. It served the system right, and completely changed things. It sorely needed to happen, and I'm happy it was BYU who got the job done.

    I just have to laugh when people on these boards sometimes say the 84 cougs were picked "the exact same way a champion is chosen today."

    No. The system is still broken, but nothing compared to the debacle it was back then.

    "If strength of schedule had mattered as much, there is no way BYU would've been crowned National Champions in 1984." -Sports Illustrated

    You couldn't win a championship today without playing at least one good team. And even then, well, see Rick Riley's column about the 2008 Utes.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 2, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    @ Riddles in the Dark

    Thank you for the reasonable comment. Yes, BYU's most impressive win was Air Force, a team that went 8-4 by being in the horrendous WAC that year. But the cougs won this one by 5 points. All this proves is that they were 5 points better than the 24th best team. They also beat Hawaii by 5, Wyoming by 3, an awful Michigan team by 7 and an absolutely terrible Pitt by 6. Props for winning all those games, but that's a lot of one-possession decisions against bad teams. Hardly indicative of the true best team in the nation. The Y's strength of schedule was the 3rd worst in all of college football.

    Since you brought up comparing them to the undefeated 2004 Utes; their closest game was a 14 point win, average margin of victory was 26 points, and they beat 19th ranked Pitt in a BCS bowl 35-7. And all that against the 57th best strength of schedule (compared to 96th). How could anyone say this wasn't a MUCH more impressive season?

    You're right though, it is a shame that neither team got the opportunity to play a better opponent.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    June 2, 2013 3:25 p.m.

    GO_COUGARS!

    What BYU accomplished in 1984 was obviously impressive enough to convince the majority of nationwide panels of sportswriters and coaches that BYU was MORE deserving than ANY OTHER team of being selected the 1984 National Champions than any other team.

    Unfortunately for U, the Utes didn't do enough in 2004 or 2008 do deserve the same acknowledgment.

    btw, despite your mischaracterization of Bosco's statement, he also said that he felt that BYU deserved their #1 ranking.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 2, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    GO_COUGARS!

    Why do you continue to ignore Air Force(8-4) as a very good team. The Falcons finished #24 in the Final AP poll. Although, not technically ranked because the 1984 poll only included the Top 20, Air Force did finish in the Top 25, one place HIGHER than the best team Utah beat in 2004, #25 Pittsburgh(8-4)

    #2 Washington and #4 Nebraska both turned down invitations to play #1 BYU in a national championship game in the Holiday Bowl. If you want to blame someone for BYU winning a championship without being "challenged", blame the Huskies and Huskers.

    BYU would have gladly played either team and would have had a very good chance of beating either.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 2, 2013 12:19 p.m.

    @RivertonCougar

    Thank you, your comment was reasonable. Until the last sentence at least. That's partially my point- we have no idea whether BYU fielded the best team in the nation in 1984. We don't know if they even fielded one of the 20 best teams because they never beat anyone who was decent. I'd like to think they were top ten, but who knows? They were barely squeaking past bad teams. They also pounded some bad teams, but they simply weren't tested. Boscoe said they would've finished 4th by today's standards.

    I agree with you about the difficulty of comparing teams from different eras. What you can compare, andhwhatisfuntodiscuss, reasonably, is a season's body of work: What the team actually accomplished onthefield. The 96 cougs were more impressive than 84. Winning the cotton bowl is BYU's biggest on-field accomplishment.

    The 2004 Utes may have been better than 2008, they just didn't accomplish as much. But when someone starts telling me that barely beating the worst teams college football had to offer is more impressive than beating some of the best, including Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, then I know we aren't having a reasonable discussion.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 1, 2013 11:04 p.m.

    As far as comparing teams from different seasons, that isn't necessarily a fair thing to do, and could be highly inaccurate anyway. Was Utah's 2004 team better than their 2008 team? Possibly; it's hard to know for sure. And comparing teams from different decades, the game can change. If (note the word "IF", since it's difficult to prove) Utah's 2008 team was better than BYU's 1984 team, it could merely be because talent has improved overall in the last 20+ years. Similarly, BYU's 2011-2012 basketball team that barely went past the playoff play-in game could be considered much better than Utah's champion basketball teams of the '40s.

    Was Utah's 2008 team better than BYU's 1984 team? Maybe.

    Was Utah's 2008 team better than BYU's 1996 team? Maybe.

    Was BYU's 1983 team better than Utah's 2008 team? Maybe.

    Was Utah's 2004 team better than Utah's 2008 team? Maybe.

    We can't tell for sure. All we DO know is that in 1984, BYU fielded the best team in the nation, and as a result was awarded the national championship by all 5 organizations of the day.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    June 1, 2013 10:58 p.m.

    As far as the 1984 season goes, you can ask a Utah fan who they believe the best team was. Most of the time, they will reply with an answer other than BYU. That's all fine until you ask them "How do you know?" That's when they can't come up with an answer other than strength of schedule. They can't give any logical reasons as to why BYU's NC team was inferior to any other team that year. They'll give a team name, but no logic to back them up.

    Here's your chance, Ute fans. Tell us why BYU wasn't the best team in 1984.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 1, 2013 10:52 p.m.

    @snack WAC

    No one needs to be educated on football by someone who just said they believe both 83 and 84 byu were better than both the 2004 and 2008 Utes.

    "National championships are seldom won by teams who come out of nowhere."

    Yeah, they're usually won by teams who beat several other good teams. Or, you know, at least one. It's probably why your own quarterback from that 84 team said there is no way that would be considered a national championship by today's standards. And also why you'll always be trying to justify it.

    LOL!

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 1, 2013 9:36 p.m.

    Go_Cougars

    "So you admit final rankings aren't the end-all-be-all in how good a team was, especially in the 80's when strength of schedule was meaningless for some reason."

    I don't admit any such thing.

    Let me educate my jealous little friend.

    The rankings are for an individual season and national championships are seldom won by teams that appear out of no where.

    BYU's record from 1979 to 1983 set the table for BYU's national championship season.

    1979 #13/#12 11-1 WAC Champion
    1980 #13/#11 12-1 WAC Champion
    1981 #13/#11 11-2 WAC Champion
    1982 unranked 8-4 WAC Champion
    1983 #7/#7 11-1 WAC Champion

    Five straight WAC championships, four Top 12 finishes and a combined 53-9(86%) in five years established BYU's credibility.

    An undefeated season in 1984, combined with teams like Oklahoma losing to Kansas, Nebraska and Washington not even winning their conference championships and then turning down invitations to play #1-ranked BYU, and Florida not even playing in a bowl, combined to make BYU the most deserving team to be crowned National Champions by a consensus of ALL FIVE major selecting organizations of the day.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 1, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    @ snack WAC

    I was hoping for a more reasonable response from someone. It is interesting though, that you list 84 BYU as the 3rd best team. So you admit final rankings aren't the end-all-be-all in how good a team was, especially in the 80's when strength of schedule was meaningless for some reason.

    There is a reason why the system has changed so nobody could barely squeak by a bunch of horrible teams and be considered national champions. It's ridiculous. Anyone outside of Provo would agree that what BYU did in 96 was more impressive. They clobbered decent teams, and beat good ones. Take away the unfortunate loss to Washington, and they could've been playing for a LEGIT championship.

    What's so amazing about the 2004 utes is their average margin of victory was 26 points, and their closest game was two touchdowns. That's insane. They beat then ranked #19 Pitt (not that impressive) 35-7 (impressive) in an actual BCS bowl. MUCH more impressive than barely beating bad teams, then barely beating a bad team from a horrible conference in your bowl.

  • Fashion Police Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 1, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    RBB

    It's common knowledge that teams change from September to the end of the season - some improve, some become worse.

    The BYU team that lost by 3 at Notre Dame and stomped Georgia Tech, would have crushed the Utah team that BYU played in September.

  • RBB Sandy, UT
    June 1, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    BlueRampage - If you are loosing to the "doormat" of the PAC it does not say much for your bowl appearance. Yes, I would rather beat BYU and go 5-7, than go 7-5 and play San Diego St. in the Holiday Bowl. I still have more respect for BYU football than San Diego St.

    While BYU has a proud football heritage, BYU fans talking smack to the Utes is silly. Yes a national championship beating a 6-5 Michigan team 29 years ago is nice. What have you done lately? Utah has owned you for two decades. (7-13 with your average margin of victory at 3.3 points is nothing to write home about). Your historical record against Utah is not much better (53-31-4).

    You can tell your grand children about that magical '84 season, or do something in the present like break the BCS (Utes 1) have another undefeated season (Utes 2) or dominate your bowl games (BYU 6-4, Utah 9-1). Until then, realize that you are #2 in the state and potentially #3.

    Oh, and can you stop wearing Utah State's colors?

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    June 1, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    GO_COUGARS!

    Thanks for that interesting and obviously highly biased list Utah troll.

    The truth is the best seasons, in order, are:

    1) #1/#1 BYU 1984
    2) #2/#4 Utah 2008
    3) #4/#4 Utah 2004
    4) #4/#5 BYU 1996
    5) #7/#7 BYU 1983

    The best teams, in order, are:

    1) #7/#7 BYU 1983
    2) #4/#5 BYU 1996
    3) #1/#1 BYU 1984
    4) #4/#5 Utah 2004
    5) #2/#4 Utah 2008

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    June 1, 2013 9:35 a.m.

    1984 BYU was, at best, the 4th best football season to come out of the state of Utah, and not even the best at BYU.

    In order:

    1) Utah - 2008
    2) Utah - 2004
    3) BYU - 1996
    4) BYU - 1984

  • Lionute Payson, UT
    May 31, 2013 9:06 p.m.

    Rockwell,

    Good information there, thanks for setting me straight. How about Pitt? They finished 25 in the final AP poll right? The truth of the matter is neither Utah in 04 or BYU in 84 beat anyone worthy of their final rankings but they had great years and the voters felt they deserved what they got, a top 5 spot and a national championship. Considering USC should not have been allowed in the 04 game, correct me if I'm wrong but that title has been taken from them, it would have be fun to see what would have happened if Utah had gotten the chance. The same can be said about BYU in 84. It would have been nice to see Washington against the Cougars. Both teams were products of the system that was in place. Switch systems and neither team gets the chance. Utah was not the only undefeated team in 04 so I doubt they would have gotten the chance had the 84 system been in place. The 84 BYU team would have the same drawback with the BCS system of the strength of schedule. Both BYU and Utah had good teams those respective years.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    May 31, 2013 8:42 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Game scores are FACT, but so are these:

    BYU beat Utah State who beat Utah who beat BYU.

    Of the three, which team is best?

    Based on head-to-head comparisons alone, there's absolutely no way of determining which team was best.

    That's why overall records are used to determine which team is best.

    It may be subjective, but so is the ranking system that ranks SOS. Win/loss records compared against a subjective SOS yields Sagarin and other computer rankings. Human voters do the same thing, only they're much better at factoring in intangibles such as weather, injuries, home and away games, short weeks, travel fatigue, rivalries, and enumerable other factors to rank teams according their overall performance.

    Obviously, there isn't a perfect system, but when you have a pool of over 120 teams, there's no possible way to make a final determination based on head-to-head scores alone.

    The Final AP and Coaches Polls rank the Top 25. For comparisons below the Top 25, the only impartial rankings we have are Sagarin and the like. It makes no sense at all to use Sagarin's SOS rankings, but ignore his team rankings.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    May 31, 2013 8:19 p.m.

    Lionute

    @Talkinsports: "Texas A&M finished 20 that year in the final BSS, does that count?"

    NOPE!

    The final BCS standings are calculated at the end of the regular season, BEFORE the bowls, and are only used to determine the two BCS championship teams and which teams are eligible for at-large BCS consideration. The Coaches Poll officially crowns the BCS champion, NOT the BCS standings.

    Tennessee destroyed Texas A&M 38-7 in the Cotton Bowl and knocked the Aggies completely out of the Final AP and Coaches Polls, so no, the Texas A&M didn't finish in the Top 25.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 31, 2013 7:12 p.m.

    Spokane Ute
    Spokane, WA

    @ My Good BYU Friends:

    Friend AND neighbor!

    Points well spoken and well taken! But teams also play better or worse from week to week, and comparing the FACTS of scores from game to game creates conundrums. That's why we have subjective polls: to try to make sense of facts that don't add up.

    Go ZAGS! Go Utes! But first and forever, go Cougs!

  • Lionute Payson, UT
    May 31, 2013 6:21 p.m.

    Talkinsports

    Texas A&M finished 20 that year in the final BSS, does that count?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 31, 2013 4:51 p.m.

    @ My Good BYU Friends:

    The polls are subjective; no two are the aame. They are all made up of various factors. Some what of a popularity contest. Your angle is like saying that Gonzaga was better than Louisville in hoops this year. Not true, but if that's what you believe; OK.

    The game score is FACT. It's not subjective, it can't be debated or minipulated. Hence the term "Score Board"! Make no mistake, I can live with that and I sleep quite well. No reason to get all bent out of shape because some one has a different and biased opinion.

    To each his own. It does make for a interesting and lively debate though.

    Have a good evening and a good weekend.

    GO UTES
    >---->

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    May 31, 2013 3:00 p.m.

    Uteology

    BYU 1984 beat Air Force(8-4) which finished #24 in the Final AP poll; although the Falcons weren't technically ranked because the 1984 only included the Top 20, the Falcons did finish in the Top 25.

    More than that, unlike Utah 2008, the majority of sportswriters and coaches voting in the AP and Coaches Poll believed that BYU was more deserving than any other team of being National Champions.

    Remind us again who U beat in 2004 to deserve finishing in the Top 5!

    LOL at your inconsistency!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 31, 2013 12:51 p.m.

    anti BCS
    Anaheim, CA

    upinthenight

    Beat one Top 25 team IS an accomplishment.

    What's not an accomplishment is beating NONE!

    --------------

    So true, see the 1984 BYU team.

    Also see 2011 when Utah pummeled a ranked BYU team at LES who only had a 3 game schedule and lost all games (Texas, Utah, and TCU).

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 31, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    @Solomon Levi

    Reality is that BYU has finished with better records and higher rankings in each of the last 2 years, and 5 of the last 8 years.

    Utah won 5 single-game battles, but BYU won 5 season-long wars.

    -----------

    Reality is

    A) Over the last decade in the MWC Utah was #10 and BYU #27 according to CBS Sports.

    B) Under Bronco BYU is 12-13 vs BCS teams (KW is 20-15)

    C) BYU is 2-3 vs PAC-12 teams in 2 years the 2 wins over 3-9 teams (Utah best win 6-8 UCLA)

    D) BYU is 4-5 vs BCS teams in 2 years best win 7-7 @GT (Utah best win 8-5 GT)

    So playing similar competition it's even, the difference is head to head: Utah OWNS BYU.

    I rather Utah go 5-7 in the PAC-12 (2012) then finish 10-3 in the MWC (2010). I think TCU fans would agree 7-6 Big 12 (2012) over 11-2 MWC (2011).

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    May 31, 2013 12:04 p.m.

    upinthenight

    Beat one Top 25 team IS an accomplishment.

    What's not an accomplishment is beating NONE!

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    May 31, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Apparently, you didn't even read or want to accept the results of your on stats:

    What part of BYU #63 > Utah #80 or BYU #26 > Utah #61 did you not understand?

    BYU finished higher in the team rankings! SOS is only one component that goes into determining those rankings.

    Paraphrasing Solomon Levi, Utah won the single game battle; BYU won the season long war!

    Live with it!

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    May 31, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    DeepBlue
    Anaheim, CA said:

    "WACpaddled

    BYU played FIVE ranked teams, beating one, and losing to three of them on the road by a total of 10 points. One of those losses, of course, was to a BCS championship game team, by 3 points. At least BYU beat a ranked team in 2012; along with ACC division champion Georgia Tech and MWC tri-championship SDSU.

    Who did U beat in 2012?

    Utah played TWO ranked teams and lost both games.

    BYU only lost to ONE unranked team, a narrow 3-point loss on the home field of their arch rival in a game that wasn't decided until the final play of the game.

    What was Utah's excuse for losing to FIVE unranked teams?

    It's obvious why Sagarin ranked BYU #26 and Utah #61 in 2012. Despite the relatively small difference in SOS, Utah's accomplishments pale in comparison even to BYU's rather modest accomplishments."

    BYU was 1-4 against ranked teams, you lost, get over it. That's a failure not an accomplishment. But you are doing a good job of spinning that way!

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    May 31, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    You're welcome to believe whatever helps you sleep at night, but that doesn't make it reality.

    Reality is that BYU has finished with better records and higher rankings in each of the last 2 years, and 5 of the last 8 years.

    Utah won 5 single-game battles, but BYU won 5 season-long wars.

    That's reality, regardless of whether it fits your agenda or not.

    Man up and give credit where it is due.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 31, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    RPI
    BYU #63, SOS #93
    Utah #80, SOS #74
    Saragin
    BYU #26, SOS #63
    Utah #61, SOS #41
    Game Score:
    Utah 24 - BYU 21

    Utah was the better team, ever so slightly; as the numbers and score indicate. The numbers would be quite similar to Alabama and Texas A&M. Tell Aggie nation that they weren't better than Bama. I highly doubt that they would buy it.

    If I was a BYU fan, I would be more concerned with the fact that BYU had an average year, Utah had their worst season in 10 years; and BYU still lost to Utah. They also continue to get out recruited year after year by Utah. No wonder the fan base is so paranoid, worried and concerned with everything related to Utah football.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 31, 2013 9:50 a.m.

    Wow, I have really hit a nerve here; awesome. This debate all stands from my position that Utah was better than BYU last year. BYU finished ranked slightly higher. Utah played a schedule that was slightly stronger. Utah was a slight favorite going into the game. Utah beat BYU on the playing field. I stand by my position. BYU fans compare BYU's loss to Appilachian State beating Michigan a few years back. Sorry, I'm not buying it. But keep telling your self you had the better team if it makes you feel better. You act as if it was the upset of the century (similar to the games you reference) You will never convience me; we beat you fair and square on the field. I suppose that the BYU team that lost 54-10 at home to Utah was also better. Sorry, the better team usually wins; as is the case the last 3 and 8 of the last 11 years. Man up and give credit where it is due.

    @WACPaddingourschedule

    They won't. Alibi's and excuses are the norm. Anything, and I mean anything, but give your opponent credit for beating you. That's pretty sad and pathetic; but absolutely true.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 31, 2013 7:40 a.m.

    @DeepBlue

    That doesn't fit the utah "fan" delusion. Quit using logic.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 31, 2013 6:45 a.m.

    @DeepBlue
    Game, set, match....

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    May 30, 2013 10:51 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    BYU played FIVE ranked teams, beating one, and losing to three of them on the road by a total of 10 points. One of those losses, of course, was to a BCS championship game team, by 3 points. At least BYU beat a ranked team in 2012; along with ACC division champion Georgia Tech and MWC tri-championship SDSU.

    Who did U beat in 2012?

    Utah played TWO ranked teams and lost both games.

    BYU only lost to ONE unranked team, a narrow 3-point loss on the home field of their arch rival in a game that wasn't decided until the final play of the game.

    What was Utah's excuse for losing to FIVE unranked teams?

    It's obvious why Sagarin ranked BYU #26 and Utah #61 in 2012. Despite the relatively small difference in SOS, Utah's accomplishments pale in comparison even to BYU's rather modest accomplishments.

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    May 30, 2013 10:44 p.m.

    @Cow Dude - I haven't missed a football game of my preferred team in many years. I'm sure Naval Vet et al. are just pulling statistics out of their memories from attending games. Sure. Believe it or not, one can be a fan and not foam at the mouth every time someone prefers BYU over Utah, or vice versa.

    It's called "getting a life." Most here don't need that advice. Some do.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 30, 2013 10:31 p.m.

    TheSportsAuthority
    Arlington, VA
    navelvet

    BYU played FIVE ranked teams in 2012, including TWO ranked WAC teams; Utah only played ONE ranked PAC team in 2012, and lost to them and the only WAC team the Utes played.

    When are Utah fans going to stop using SOS as an excuse for losing?

    ____________

    When are BYU fans going to stop coming up with excuses when they lose to ranked teams?

    What was BYUs record against ranked teams in 2012?

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    May 30, 2013 10:26 p.m.

    spokaneute

    "I love the way the authority hand picks the games to fit his agenda."

    There are literally dozens of games every week where the head-to-head winner isn't necessarily the better team; Authority simply picked a few, albeit extreme, examples.

    That's why overall win/loss records and rankings for an entire season are much more reliable indicators of which team was really better.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    May 30, 2013 9:58 p.m.

    @talkinsports

    "It was obvious to anyone who watched the game that Alabama was flat and played with no emotion for most of the game, especially during the first half when Utah jumped out to a big lead."

    LOL!

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 30, 2013 9:49 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "Texas A&M was a better team [than Alabama]" - but didn't get invited to the NC?

    "Utah was better [than Colorado]" - but lost the head-to-head?

    "Utah was better [than UNLV]" - but lost the head-to-head?

    It's obvious that your head-to-head standard for determining which team is better really depends entirely on your own personal opinion.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    May 30, 2013 9:31 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    In 2012, Texas A&M BEAT Alabama 29-25 at Alabama.

    According to your logic, since Texas A&M won the head-to-head, Texas A&M proved they were BETTER than Alabama. Right? Period, end of story.

    So why wasn't Texas A&M invited to the BCS championship game instead of Alabama?

    Isn't the BCS supposed to match the two BEST teams in the championship game?

    Either the head-to-head Alabama-Texas A&M matchup really didn't determine which team was better, or the BCS messed up and invited the wrong team.

    Which is it?

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    May 30, 2013 9:09 p.m.

    LetsDebate "Are any of the commenters here embarrassed to have lives so devoid of substance that they have time to conduct exhaustive research and collect statistics to build a one-sided case against a rival, OVER A GAME?!?"

    Many "commenters" are season ticket holders and traveling post season supporters. They know because they were there. It's called attendance.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 30, 2013 9:07 p.m.

    Was Texas A&M(11-2) better than BCS National Champion Alabama(13-1) in 2012?
    Was Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5) in 2011?
    Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4) in 2007?

    ---------
    Yes Texas A&M was a better team. They were a slight underdog, won at Bama, and didn't lose another game that year.
    Utah was better, but Colorado out played them on that day. Colorado was a HUGE underdog and pulled off a Big, Big upset.
    Utah was better, but UNLV out played them on that day. UNLV was a HUGE underdog and pulled off one of the biggest upsets in the history of their program.
    I don't recall Utah ever being a HUGE underdog when they beat BYU over the past 10-12 years. Since you claim to be the authority; correct me if I'm wrong. Nice job of picking some of the biggest upsets ever to happen to the Utes though. I love the way the authority hand picks the games to fit his agenda. I've never seem him do that before. Ha Ha

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 30, 2013 7:51 p.m.

    "It's interesting that the BCS "formula" for determining which teams are invited to play in the BCS championship game COULDN'T CARE LESS about head-to-head results in determining which two teams are better."
    ----------
    Really? So win loss record doesn't factor into the BCS formula according to your logic. How can you have a good record if you don't beat teams head to head? Maybe the BCS formula is based on the team's uniform color. Maybe Bama got in to the championship due to their mascot; obviously there head to head competition, or games played on the field mean't absolutely nothing. Now I've heard it all; absolutely amazing logic.

  • Koloss Hampton, VA
    May 30, 2013 7:31 p.m.

    Since Utah went to the Pac-12 and BYU became independent Utah has a .450 winning percentage versus BCS opponents and BYU has a .400 winning percentage against BCS opponents. That is without considering BYU a BCS opponent. Also in head to head matches Utah has outscored BYU 78-31.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 30, 2013 5:37 p.m.

    @ skywalker

    Like many BYU fans you like to cherry pick your stats. That's OK if that is what floats your boat. Did my post refrence the Bronko vs. Kyle era? No it did not. But since you brought it up what is the head to head win loss record during that time? Try to spin that. I know it will be hard with your BYU education and reading skill set but please re read my comment. I said BYU fans are still trying to live in the 70 and 80 or more correctly in your case is should have read cherry picking a favorable portion of time. My comment referenced the time since the 80's That's from the 90's forward or say the last twenty years.You conveniently left off the years from 1990 to present, Why? You conveniently want to include the last two years when BYU played a list of 6-8 patsies, and while Utah was playing 8-9 BCS level teams. Why? This year you have what four or five BCS level teams to play. How well have you done against BCS lever teams in the past 23 years? Or even better all time?

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    May 30, 2013 5:36 p.m.

    According to an unscientific poll, 64% of Utah fans are really just BYU-haters who wouldn't have any reason to remain Utah fans if the U stopped playing the Y.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    May 30, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    Navel Vet

    "Not according to the color analyst immediately prior to the kickoff, who remarked that any concerns Alabama would overlook Utah would be mistaken. He described the Alabama team as "upbeat" in their pre-game practices and warm-ups. Fail."

    Since the color analyst wasn't on the field, his "impressions" are really quite meaningless.

    It was obvious to anyone who watched the game that Alabama was flat and played with no emotion for most of the game, especially during the first half when Utah jumped out to a big lead.

    Colorado's game at Utah in 2011 and Utah's game versus Alabama in 2008 were remarkably similar in that respect.

    That, btw, is why they call those kinds of wins "upsets", because the better team didn't win.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 30, 2013 5:19 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Obviously they were on that day!

    Obviously, you're not willing the answer the questions with an honest, unqualified, straight-forward, yes/no answer because either your answer would look silly or you would invalidate your entire head-to-head narrative.

    It's interesting that the BCS "formula" for determining which teams are invited to play in the BCS championship game COULDN'T CARE LESS about head-to-head results in determining which two teams are better.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 30, 2013 5:11 p.m.

    NavelVet

    "What defines who the better team is, is the head-to-head battles on the field of play."

    Head-to-head is only one measuring stick.

    Answer the following questions TRUTHFULLY, with a simple yes/no answer, and you'll understand why:

    Was Texas A&M(11-2) better than BCS National Champion Alabama(13-1) in 2012?
    Was Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5) in 2011?
    Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4) in 2007?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2013 5:03 p.m.

    According to an unscientific poll, 64% of Cougar fans say being independent is worth it, even though it means never beating their rival again.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 30, 2013 4:51 p.m.

    @ Ball Player

    When?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 30, 2013 4:36 p.m.

    SportsAuthority,

    Obviously they were on that day! Are you that simple?

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 30, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    navelvet

    Still pretending that even in the BCS era pollsters don't consider SOS when ranking teams???

    It's laughable that Utah fans brag every time the Utes beat a ranked team, then in the same breath, question the validity of the rankings.

    Sorry, U can't have it both ways.

    BYU's rankings are just as legitimate as any other team's rankings.

    BYU played FIVE ranked teams in 2012, including TWO ranked WAC teams; Utah only played ONE ranked PAC team in 2012, and lost to them and the only WAC team the Utes played.

    When are Utah fans going to stop using SOS as an excuse for losing?

  • Ballplayer Spanish Fork, UT
    May 30, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    Just shows how stupid Ute fans are. BYU fans say "why choose? We'll do both."

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    May 30, 2013 3:34 p.m.

    Are any of the commenters here embarrassed to have lives so devoid of substance that they have time to conduct exhaustive research and collect statistics to build a one-sided case against a rival, OVER A GAME?!? And then hyperventilate to expose their comical blindness to any reasonable difference of opinion over the comparative relevance and significance of indisputable data?

    Plenty of good comments and banter here, but my goodness a few of you really need a priority check. If you're a professional sports analyst, my apologies and keep up the good work, but I suspect none on this thread has such a career. It seems like a few are pathologically obsessed with connecting your value to your team's superiority, and can't recognize just how unhinged you look to sane people.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 30, 2013 2:46 p.m.

    MacNasty:

    "Utah did beat a discouraged Alabama team that did not have its best player playing in the game."

    Not according to the color analyst immediately prior to the kickoff, who remarked that any concerns Alabama would overlook Utah would be mistaken. He described the Alabama team as "upbeat" in their pre-game practices and warm-ups. Fail.

    Oh, and speaking of not an impact player in the game, Utah played the Indy-WACers sans their starters at QB, RB, FS, and SS....and STILL won that game. In fact, THAT game was won by the end of the 3rd quarter.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 30, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    skywalker:

    "Bronco has finished with a better record and higher ranking in 5 of the 8 seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era."

    Yes, Bronco scheduled and beat more FCS teams, and the weakest teams in the WAC than Utah whereas Utah actually accepted the challenge to play a competitive slate that resulted in more losses. You'll get no argument from Ute fans that there were "more wins". But just because you scheduled and beat more FCS and weak WAC teams than we did, that doesn't suggest you have the better program. It just suggests your SOS is weak and you're not "ready" to play a big-boy schedule.

    What defines who the better team is, is the head-to-head battles on the field of play.

    Utah/Whittingham: 5-3
    Indy-WAC/Mendenmidmajor: 3-5

    Edge: Utah/Whittingham

    Case closed.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 30, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    MacNasty:

    "Remember that one primary reason why the BCS was created was because BYU beat Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl."

    The reason the BCS was created was because of the number of split NC's under the old system (i.e. Michigan and Nebraska back in '97) that resulted because of bowl tie-ins preventing #1 from playing #2 every year. That had nothing to do with the Indy-WACers. But typical of your ilk to try to take credit for it.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    May 30, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    @ Snack WAC

    "Utah thumped Alabama in an off year when the Utes played a disinterested Alabama team that never considered Utah much of a threat."

    LOL!

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    May 30, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    Snack PAC "Utah thumped Alabama in an off year when the Utes played a disinterested Alabama team that never considered Utah much of a threat."

    Bama was ranked #1 a good part of the year and played Florida for the SEC Championship. Bama led 20-10 in the 4th quarter. Florida went on the the National Championship winning the entire second half over Oklahoma.

    What would have happened if Utah had played Florida for the championship instead?

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 30, 2013 1:41 p.m.

    Snack PAC
    Olympus Cove, Utah
    "Bama is the Dynasty and Utah thumped them."

    Utah thumped Alabama in an off year when the Utes played a disinterested Alabama team that never considered Utah much of a threat.

    __________

    Was Alabama disinterested when the lost to A&M?
    Was BYU disinterested when they lost to Utah, BSU, Oregon St., ND and San Jose St.?

    How could an alleged Legacy program be owned by SJ St. of the WAC!

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 30, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    It looks like you're avoiding answering the questions:

    Was Texas A&M(11-2) better than BCS National Champion Alabama(13-1) in 2012?
    Was Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5) in 2011?
    Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4) in 2007?

    A simple yes or no for each will do. No spin or qualifiers needed.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 30, 2013 12:47 p.m.

    "Bama is the Dynasty and Utah thumped them."

    Utah thumped Alabama in an off year when the Utes played a disinterested Alabama team that never considered Utah much of a threat.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 30, 2013 12:43 p.m.

    steeleute

    Sorry to disappoint U, but legacy programs are built over decades of continual success, not with a couple of flash-in-the-pan seasons.

    BYU has been a perennial Top 25 team since 1977 (18 of 36 seasons; 50%), with a National Championship, a Heisman Trophy winner, 6 National College Football Hall of Fame Players, and 15 National Individual Award Winners.

    Utah only has FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history. Utah's team and players have never won a single national award of any kind.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    May 30, 2013 12:39 p.m.

    MacNasty said, "There is no dynasty in the BCS's very short era by a single college team. About the only thing one can say is that the SEC has dominated. Utah does not belong to the SEC."

    Bama is the Dynasty and Utah thumped them.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    May 30, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    Re: 965

    The stats are the stats. Nothing delusional about them. They are what they are. You need to be reminded that Utah was only in the PAC 2011, 2012. Before that it was in the MWC as was BYU with the same type schedule, OK? The two years you have been in the PAC the Utes did not play the best teams and still came up around the bottom. This year the Utes will play both Oregon and Stanford.

    Oh yeah, using your logic, like you said of Notre Dame, let's say of USC, Stanford and Oregon; they won't be as good as last year, even less since they didn't play in the BCS NC.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 30, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    Uteology

    "What did they [Athlon Magazine] name BYU during the BCS era?

    One of "College Football's Top 25 Greatest Dynasties of the AP Era" (1936 to present), of which the BCS era is only a minor subset.

    Boise State (2006-11) and TCU (2008-11) were both mentioned in "Best of the Rest"

    Utah's brief little flash-in-the-pan successes in 2004 and 2008 didn't even rate a mention.

  • steeleute Sandy, UT
    May 30, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    shorts,

    I have not heard any Utah fan predict a 9 or 10 win season this year.

    deductive reasoning,

    To be a legacy program like Oklahoma you have to actually make it to BCS games and WIN them. Something Utah has done twice in the last decade. BYU hasn't even been able to sniff at BCS bowl.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 30, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Still trying to pretend that 1/12th of a season is the measuring stick for determining which team is better?

    Was Texas A&M(11-2) better than BCS National Champion Alabama(13-1) in 2012?

    (If so, then why didn't Texas A&M play in the BCS Championship game which is supposed to match the two BEST teams in the country?)

    Was Colorado(3-10) better than Utah(8-5) in 2011?
    Was UNLV(2-10) better than Utah(9-4) in 2007?

    Answer those questions honestly and without any qualifiers and you'll have your answer why head-to-head isn't the most important factor in determining which team is better.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    May 30, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    Re: Spokane fan,

    Did the Utes win a national championship in the BCS era? No, and really nobody cares who came in second or fifth. Brides' maids are not remembered except in their own minds.

    The BCS ends this year as in goes away, rides into the sunset, terminates, over, done, fin.

    Time to move on.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    May 30, 2013 11:39 a.m.

    Spokane Ute,

    Huh,when did Utah get its invite to the PAC. I think it was 2010. Talk about trying to ride coat tails. How many national championships have the Utes won since being members of the PAC. You talk the talk, but you have not even taken one step in walking the walk. Feeling superior by just association is a fantasy. Most everyone see you taking advantage of the PAC's reputation, and in return contributing to this point, nothing.

    Utah did beat a discouraged Alabama team that did not have its best player playing in the game. Was that like 5 years ago? BTW, I rooted for the Utes that game.

    BYU went into SEC country and won two years ago. OK? I can just hear you say, "yeah but that was Mississippi." That is right. I guess a team who was a member of the WAC (which Ute fans continually belittle), Utah State, can say they beat a PAC 12 team last year. I can just hear fans from other PAC 12 schools say, "yeah,but that was just Utah."

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 30, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    It looks like Skywalker left out head to head games and BCS games. Now that's curious? Just an over sight I'm sure.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 30, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Silent Lurker

    "BYU fans are still trying to live in the 70's and 80's."

    LOL!

    Bronco/Kyle era (current era)

    Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    10+ Win Seasons
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Overall Record
    Bronco 74-29
    Kyle 70-32

    Bowl Games
    Bronco 8
    Kyle 7

    Year-by-Year Overall Winner/Ranking/Record (AP/Coaches/Sagarin)
    Utah 2005 unranked/#55 BYU(6-6) < unranked/#51 Utah(7-5)
    BYU 2006 #16/#15/#19 BYU(11-2) > unranked/#54 Utah(8-5)
    BYU 2007 #14/#15/#17 BYU(11-2) > unranked/#34 Utah(9-4)
    Utah 2008 #25/#21/#32 BYU(10-3) < #2/#4/#5 Utah(13-0)
    BYU 2009 #12/#12/#15 BYU(11-2) > #18/#18/#24 Utah(10-3)
    Utah 2010 unranked/#45 BYU(7-6) < ur/#23/#26 Utah(10-3)
    BYU 2011 #26/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)
    BYU 2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) > unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)

    Bronco has finished with a better record and higher ranking in 5 of the 8 seasons during the Bronco/Kyle era.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 30, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    MacNasty

    How did Utah fare against the big bad SEC? Who's the last non-SEC team to beat Alabama?

    You do realize that the PAC 12 has played the SEC dead even since 2000 don't you?

    Just askin.....

    Tell us about BYU's BCS bowl games; that one is easy, none

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    May 30, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    Uteology,

    Tell us when BYU has had a losing season in the last seven years. How about the Utes? I will make that one easy, last year.

    FYI, your attempt to minimize BYU being recognized by Athlon as having a dynasty fails miserably, is a red herring and illogical. The fact is what it is. Are you going minimize Notre Dame, Texas, Michigan, etc. because their dynasties were in the AP era?

    There is no dynasty in the BCS's very short era by a single college team. About the only thing one can say is that the SEC has dominated. Utah does not belong to the SEC.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    May 30, 2013 9:11 a.m.

    Uteology,

    Your desperation is quite apparent. Remember that one primary reason why the BCS was created was because BYU beat Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl. The BCS will be dead very quickly.

    Only the Ute fans like you beat their chests and crow about being a bride's maid. Its simply pathetic. Two good seasons does not make a dynasty or even a national brand; especially when your team has been ranked in the final polling like what, 5 times ever?

    Finally Check your facts. Final rankings for 1984 has BYU consensus #1 and 1996 consensus #5. Even Wikipedia got that right.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 30, 2013 8:08 a.m.

    @killarney
    You like so many other BYU fans are still trying to live in the 70's and 80's. Please turn your calendar over this is 2013,BYU has not been feared by the Utes in the last 20 years if ever. Fact is Utah is just tired of your stick.It's not Utah begging to play BYU! It's BYU begging to play Utah. Utah has a full schedule of quality teams that BYU is just begging to play.

  • T.S.Zarathrustra Salt Lake City, UT
    May 30, 2013 7:27 a.m.

    Most of the Utah fans I know are very pleased to see the "rivalry" fade away. The acrimony involved with the game such as is demonstrated in these comments, is best seen in the rear view mirror. Why play this game with so many enjoyable challenges ahead of us.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 30, 2013 7:25 a.m.

    Sammy G said:

    "And let's not forget the Las Vegas Bowl where Boise State owns the Utes."
    --
    And let's not forget the Utah-BYU rivalry where Utah owns the Cougs.

    Check Mate!

  • shorts Payson, UT
    May 30, 2013 7:22 a.m.

    steeleute
    Sandy, UT

    Funny when Ute fans predict a 9-3 or 10-2 it is optimism. When a BYU fan does the same thing it is "HA....pure delusion!" How is that? BYU has a new OC Utah has a new OC. BYU lost a first rounder, Utah lost a first rounder. BYU has lots of starters comming back in key positions. I'm guessing Utah and key players coming back. Utah is braking in a new QB BYU is braking in a new QB. BYU is coming off a winning record and a bowl win.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    May 30, 2013 12:28 a.m.

    Cowboy Dude

    Both teams are playing Michigan in 2014.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 29, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    @deductive reasoning

    "Athlon Magazine recently named BYU's 1979 through 1985 era one the Top 25 DYNASTIES during the AP era."

    What did they name BYU during the BCS era? A "Quest Still in Progress"?

    "BYU had more AP Top 25 finishes during that one 7-year period, than the Utes have had during their entire history."

    Utah has more undefeated seasons in those 7 years than BYU has it's entire history.
    Utah has as many top 5 finishes in those 7 years than BYU has it's entire history.
    Utah beat more final ranked teams in those 7 years than BYU did since 1984.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    May 29, 2013 11:00 p.m.

    Those that can't cheer for more than one team is missing out on half the fun.

    BYU is going into the toughest season of their lives. I really hope they do well. I am excited to go to the Texas game.

    Utah is into the toughest season ever with Stanford and Oregon. I will be at the Stanford game and in L.A. for the USC game.

    Call me delusional, but I hope to see all wins.

    As for the rivalry, a break will be healthy. I think most fans would choose to stop the Utah/BYU game for a year or two if both teams could play Michigan.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    May 29, 2013 9:55 p.m.

    So, what I get from these comments is that the BYU stadium is really really big and the Utah stadium is too small.

    I think the Utes should play their November home games in Provo, since BYU's home season is over.

    ...problem solved.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    May 29, 2013 9:43 p.m.

    Beat BYU or beat USC?
    Another silly question. Yes.

    I for one...USC...duh.

    BYU is not close to the game of the year.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 29, 2013 9:40 p.m.

    The nation watched as Utah fans rushed the field THREE times for one victory over an arch-rival they're suddenly claiming they don't care about because beating BYU has become so predictable and routine.

    Denial isn't just a river in Egypt; it apparently gushes from a hill in SLC.

  • Wingnut1 USA, UT
    May 29, 2013 9:29 p.m.

    Of course Utah fans would say that! They didn't make it to a bowl game! If they had lost to BYU, but still gone to a bowl game and BYU didn't go to a bowl game, they would say that the bowl game is more important. BYU fans say the bowl game is more important because we lost to Utah and then went to the bowl game. It all depends on the situation people are in.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    May 29, 2013 9:14 p.m.

    Yes, it's everyone's dream to beat the Cougars. This story is just additional proof. It's not an easy burden, but it's what we face for being such a great all around institution with high standards What a great compliment it is that folks admire the Cougars so much.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    May 29, 2013 8:41 p.m.

    Mister J

    "Utes will go to the Rose Bowl long before the Y EVER cracks the BCS or whatever...[blah, blah, blah"

    Utah fans are fond of making wild predictions based on nothing but their own crimson-colored fantasies.

    BYU is a LOT closer to being a legacy program like Oklahoma than the Utes will ever be.

    Athlon Magazine recently named BYU's 1979 through 1985 era one the Top 25 DYNASTIES during the AP era.

    TCU and Boise St were also mentioned, but the Utes were completely ignored.

    BYU had more AP Top 25 finishes during that one 7-year period, than the Utes have had during their entire history.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    May 29, 2013 8:23 p.m.

    Silent Lurker

    "BYU has hardly the record of an opponent striking the fear of being played by Utah."

    Don't kid yourself; BYU is EXACTLY the type of opponent that strikes fear into the hill crowd.

    It doesn't take a genius to infer that when Chris Hill chose to drop BYU in favor Fresno St that he was simply being realistic enough to recognize that Utah's recent head-to-head success could easily turn in BYU's favor and that locking in two OOC losses for 2014 and 2015 could easily prevent the Utes from qualifying for a bowl.

    A team that isn't capable of finishing with a winning PAC record MUST win at least two OOC games in order to be bowl eligible.

    13 of the last 16 BYU-Utah games including most of the games during the disastrous Crowton era were decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime.

    Despite what the kids on hill may claim, BYU is a serious threat to Utah's bowl chances.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 29, 2013 8:01 p.m.

    @arrogant chickens
    Actually Dr. Hill stated that "Utah did not want to play both teams in the same year". You drew the conclusion of not being good enough. After all Utah has won eight of the last eleven and the last three in a row, this is hardly the record of an opponent striking fear in the hearts of the Utes. Truth is Utah views this as a nothing game when played. (nothing to win and nothing to lose)

  • steeleute Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:56 p.m.

    BYU's record for 2013: 5-7
    You heard it here first. They lost talent (Like a top 5 NFL pick) from a 7-5 team and play a much harder schedule, yet they think somehow they are going 9-3 or 10-2? HA....pure delusion! Utah has found QB stability and added much depth, add in a proven offensive coordinator with up tempo offense and a bowl game will be attended this year by Utah.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:27 p.m.

    @mussingaround
    I stated that the DN (Deseret News) was stroking the egos of the little independent fans down south. Not myself or the Utah fan base. It has been the BYU fans complaining because Utah does not want to waste a game playing them any longer. BYU has been left behind, none of the big five conferences want them so they have no choice but to go it alone.(Independently)

    @arrogant chickens
    Actually Dr. Hill stated that "they did not want to play both teams in the same year". You drew the conclusion of not being good enough. After all Utah has won eight of the last eleven and the last three in a row, BYU has hardly the record of an opponent striking the fear of being played by Utah.

  • Hegdehog Bountiful, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:16 p.m.

    @AZUtE1
    "For instance, byu's SOS ranked 96th out of 98 total D-1 schools ranked in 1984, beginning with 3-7-1 PITT and ending with 6-6 Michigan."

    Are you inferring when a team goes undefeated isn't deserving of a shot at a NC if their SOS is weak? Hypothetically speaking, What if it's a team as good as Alabama was last year but they happen to be in a lousy conference that gives them a terrible SOS? Does that make them lousy? There's not a lot of control a team has over getting quality opponents on their schedule (ute fans should know this) when you're in a big conference.

    Also teams are typically scheduled several years out. They might have been a top 25 ranked team when you scheduled them but 5-7 yrs later when you actually play them they might have gone through one or more coaching changes and could be absolutely terrible. SOS is just a small piece of the story, even in the BCS rankings it's only a small piece and carries no more weight than the number of losses a team has or it's avg ranking in the polls.

  • steeleute Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:16 p.m.

    I believe that our past 2 years of recruiting will come to fruition this year as we have addressed many of the areas that we struggled with last year (OL depth, QB stability, WR depth, RB depth, LB depth, etc.). I get that the recruiting ranking and star system isn't always accurate but its simple numbers that the better recruiting classes mean the better talent which equals more wins. Couple Utah's depth with a 7 home game schedule and the fact that they don't leave the state til October, an 8-4 season is an attainable goal. Most likely though, the Utes go 7-5 or 6-6. But if I were a BYU fan I would be very worried, its already clear that Taysom will have knee problems, especially with his most recent injury. You only have 1 great WR in Hoffman. The U lost Star which will be tough to replace but you lost Ansah which will have just as equal difficulty in replacing. You also lost your best corner in Hadley. The U replaces corners as well but our Db's last year were not worth bragging about anyway and we have very speedy guys replacing them.

  • GK Willington Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:14 p.m.

    to AZUTE1 5/29 3:36p

    Using a byu's favorite tool (circular logic) against them; that's funny.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:12 p.m.

    to Uteanymous on 5/28 @ 23:33

    Utes will go to the Rose Bowl long before the y EVER cracks the BCS or whatever collective The big boys (P12, etc...) play in.

    To Bluto on 5/29.

    Thanks for the history lesson. NOT! Get back to us when byu is a true legacy program like OU, Texas, Notre Dame, Michigan, USC, Bama, etc...

  • steeleute Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:06 p.m.

    BYU fans crack me up. Utah goes 8-5 their first year (2012) in the Pac and it is dubbed as a bad season by BYU fans, yet when BYU goes 8-5 last year with a much easier schedule it is a GREAT season. So hypocritical. I love the fact that some BYU fans are so delusional that they honestly think, going forward in the next few years, that they are more primed to compete for a BCS bowl game than Utah. First of all, did it ever cross your minds that you are going into the hardest schedule in BYU school history this year? And that for the two years that BYU has been independent they have they have averaged a 65 ranking for recruiting (70 for 2013 and 61 in 2012 according to Rivals). You will find out the hard way this year, just as Utah did last year, that more depth and talent is necessary to compete with better teams and you simply don't have it. I know the Utes aren't world beaters but at least they have averaged a 36 rating (28 in 2012 and 44 in 2013).

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    May 29, 2013 6:38 p.m.

    Say, what?

    "The self-proclaimed unscientific poll sheds an interesting light on the passion and importance that fans place on the game each year."

    Unscientific polls are just that, unscientific.

    Because they are unsubstantiated, unreliable, un-replicatable, statistically insignificant, and useless.

    Ask anyone who has actually passed Statistics 101.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    May 29, 2013 6:28 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    ".... Kraft Macaroni and Cheese bowl year, after year, after year..."

    When the PAC10 announced their tie-in to the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl they were thinking of the U maybe someday making sixth place. Then they thought well we will make easier and have that seventh bowl game as a back-up in New Mexico.

    I love how hypocritical Ute fans disparage the very bowl games the PAC 10.2 embraced for the bottom dwellers of their conference.

    And let's not forget the Las Vegas Bowl where Boise State owns the Utes.

    You Utes would have been stampeding the ticket office for a seat at either of those 'lower tier' bowl games. LOL

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 5:32 p.m.

    Let's compare....
    BYU (4-4), at Notre Dame in 2012, when Notre Dame was ranked #5.
    Notre Dame 17...BYU 14

    To

    Utah at Notre Dame in 2010, when Utah was ranked #14 and N.D was 5-5..
    Notre Dame 28...Utah 3

    Ouch!

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    May 29, 2013 5:26 p.m.

    twofer

    "So you're saying that what BYU did in the 80's will somehow have an impact on the upcoming season?"

    What BYU did in the 80's established a track record that has been validated over and over by consistent Top 25 finishes since 1977 (18 in 36 years).

    That pattern has continued into the Bronco/Kyle era.

    Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    When it comes to ranking teams at the end of a season, voters remember which teams have been perennial contenders, and which teams have been perennial pretenders.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    May 29, 2013 5:13 p.m.

    patriot

    "The Y has more to gain by beating the U than the other way around."

    Don't kid yourself; the entire self-image of the Utah fanbase is tied at the hip with beating BYU.

    BYU has much bigger fish to fry than beating a big boy conference bottom dweller.

  • CordonBleu Park City, UT
    May 29, 2013 5:10 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    Unlike Utah, BYU didn't LOSE to one of the worst teams in the country on their home turf in 2011.

    The East Coast voters are smart enough to figure out that no team deserves to be ranked when they finish with a mediocre 8-5 record and get dominated on their home field by a team that hadn't won a road game in three years.

    BYU finished 25th and 26th in the Coaches and AP polls; Utah didn't get a single vote in either poll.

    Sagarin ranked BYU #34 and BYU's bowl opponent, Tulsa, #35. He ranked Utah #39 and Utah's bowl opponent, Georgia Tech, #56.

    Stop whining about SOS. The only decent team you've beaten in the past two seasons is BYU, and you were lucky to escape with a win in 2012.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    @ midpacmajor

    So you're saying that what BYU did in the 80's will somehow have an impact on the upcoming season?

    Swing and a miss.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 29, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "I understand that byu fans can't hang their hat on beating UTAH, head-to-head, and they can't hang their hat on actually beating good teams on a regular-bases[sic],..."

    When has Utah ever beaten good teams on a regular basis?

    The fact that Utah has only appeared in the AP Top 25 FIVE times in their entire history is proof enough that you're just blowing smoke.

    The real difference between BYU being a perennial Top 25 team and Utah being a perennial unranked team is BYU seldom loses to BAD teams like 10-loss Colorado and 10-loss UNLV.

    BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams in 2012, beating one, and losing to three others, all on the road, by a total of 10 points. BYU also beat Georgia Tech and SDSU.

    Utah played TWO Top 25 teams in 2012 and U lost to both. U haven't beaten a single conference team with a winning record during the past two seasons, yet U whine about BYU's SOS.

    Who did U beat in 2012 or 2011 besides BYU?

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    May 29, 2013 4:48 p.m.

    @ Spokane Ute

    "Um Utah has been to a bowl game 9 of the last 10 years; but great job of pinning the entire progams success on last year. Typical."

    Well you know what they say, "it's not about what have you done for me in the past, but what have you done for me lately." Who cares about 9 of the last 10 years. What happened last year is all that matters. I'm not hypocritical, I hold BYU to the same standard. Even though the euphoria of the National Championship in '84 is cool to reminisce about, I don't throw it around all the time like some BYU fans do. Under that standard, BYU's 8-5 with a bowl victory is greater than Utah's 5-7 without a bowl. You asked for credit, I'll give you credit Utah beat BYU last year, but you guys finished 5-7. That SUCKS! So stop treating your season like it's a success because you beat BYU. BYU's season was not great but it wasn't terrible either. Much rather have that than your season.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    May 29, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    Silent Lurker

    "Another DN article stroking the little independent school down south fans egos."

    LOL at your delusional spin!

    The article is based on a Utah Football Blog!

    Are you really trying to assert that Utah football fans would be trying to stroke the egos of their big brothers or are you too embarrassed to admit Ute Nation's total obsession with BYU?

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    May 29, 2013 4:34 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Right on cue, yet another byu-fan omits the obvious qualifier here and that's SOS."

    Right on cue, another Utah apologist trying to pretend that Utah's paltry number of appearances in the Top 25 is a result of Utah's SOS.

    Someday our little friends on the hill will understand that SOS is meaningless if you don't win and Top 25 finishes are determined by consistent winning, rather than occasionally beating a good team.

    It's interesting that Utah fans use beating a ranked BYU team in 2008 to validate their 2008 season, yet question the validity of BYU's ranking. The inconsistency is truly laughable.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 29, 2013 4:07 p.m.

    I understand that byu fans can't hang their hat on beating UTAH, head-to-head, and they can't hang their hat on actually beating good teams on a regular-bases, hence all this talk about these polls, influenced greatly by human-error and its inherent arbitrary-nature. Even the BCS poll still has this influence to compliment the myriad computer-rankings.

    2011 is an Instant-Classic. byu fans somehow believe them beating a slew of patsies to end their season, [in order to pad their record, only to have these East Coast human voters merely glance at final-records, with absolutely zero consideration given to SOS, and allowing byu to slip into 1 of the polls in the very last spot], even remotely magically mitigates 100% the 44-point margin UTAH whooped byu by during the season on their homefield and concluding byu was the better team in 2011. Utterly-SURREAL.

  • Silent Lurker Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 29, 2013 4:03 p.m.

    Another DN article stroking the little independent school down south fans egos. Note how many of the BYU faithful think this is true. Most of them are trying to live in 1984 because it's the only thing they have left twenty nine years ago.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 29, 2013 4:02 p.m.

    I suspect most U fans would rather beat USC and Oregon and put themselves back on the BCS map. As far as BYU goes.. I think that rivalry is dying and will soon be more of a who cares game. The Y has more to gain by beating the U than the other way around. Wow - can't believe I said that. Times sure have changed.

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    upinthenight

    It's funny how you distort the truth to fit your own version of reality.

    BYU's last two games versus Colorado were a 20-17 BYU win in the Freedom Bowl and a 41-20 beat down of the Buffs in Boulder. BYU hasn't lost to Colorado since a 7-9 setback at Colorado in 1947. Hardly comparable to Utah getting dominated at home (see 2011 1st half stats) by a 10-loss Colorado team with a gift-wrapped PAC South title on the line.

    The real answer to the question of whether Utah fans would rather go to a bowl or beat Colorado would be stunned silence from the kids on the hill. Beating Colorado isn't even on their radar.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 29, 2013 3:52 p.m.

    Mark123

    Um Utah has been to a bowl game 9 of the last 10 years; but great job of pinning the entire progams success on last year. Typical.

    Sportsguy

    Let's stay current guy. Utah finished number 2 in the AP rankings in 2008-2009. When was the last time BYU did that Mr. Helper? The word "authority" appears to be off target; as usual. I guess anything but give your rival credit when due.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 29, 2013 3:50 p.m.

    @ajweston

    Uh....are you sure you are talking to the right person? I didn't post any of the stuff you are crediting me with. As a matter of fact I'm not sure anyone wrote any of that stuff. Perhaps you need to do a little remedial work and get your self sorted out.

  • arrogant chickens Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 3:47 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "--What are you, the authority on how many games over in CA UTAH needs to play in order qualify as scheduling FSU for recrulting-purposes?"

    It doesn't take an "authority" to recognize blowing smoke.

    The good doctor himself admitted that the reason he dropped BYU from Utah's schedule for 2014 and 2015 was because he didn't think the Utes were good enough to play both Michigan AND BYU in the same season.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 29, 2013 3:42 p.m.

    @y'slb--

    "Since 1972, USC(25) and UCLA(20) are the only Western teams with more football Top 25 finishes than BYU(18). Utah(6) isn't even close."

    Right on cue, yet another byu-fan omits the obvious qualifier here and that's SOS. You really ought to go back and include each school's respective SOS ranking, annually, when making such a comparison, if you truly wish to be objective.

    For instance, byu's SOS ranked 96th out of 98 total D-1 schools ranked in 1984, beginning with 3-7-1 PITT and ending with 6-6 Michigan.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 3:41 p.m.

    @Wacked Pad and Spoked Ute

    Legacy programs are built over generations.
    They are an accumulation of notable and rare achievements.
    A resume' if you will.
    Your willingness to dismiss BYU's long record of achievement only shows your own jealousy and desperation, because, your program has none of these things.

    Legacy/National Brand programs, tout their long list of achievements all day long, it's who they are and where they've been.

    When Oklahoma was in the dumper and losing to everyone in sight, it didn't matter, once they righted the ship, they were still Oklahoma.
    Ditto Texas, Florida State, USC, Washington, UCLA, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc.

    Legacy matters.

    There is no room for "Pretenders" regarding National Brand or Legacy, 5 good years in 50 won't get U there, sorry.
    It's earned over "Generations"... see BYU.

    Whenever BYU or any other Legacy School plays on ESPN, they make note of their history and past.
    They show their Heisman, Outlands, and Hall of Famers.

    Only Wannabee program's fans, without a legacy, runs down actual programs who have actual achievements.

    What a sorry state to be in.
    Helooo 3&11 seasons....
    Hilarious!

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 3:38 p.m.

    It's laughable that our little brothers spend so much time trying to minimize the only half-decent team the Utes have beaten since joining the PAC.

    It's even more hilarious when they try to make ANY bowl pale in comparison to the couch potato bowl the Utes played in last season.

    Didn't the Emerald (Kraft Fight Hunger) and Poinsettia Bowls account for ONE-THIRD of the bowls in that 9-bowl winning streak Utah fans used to brag about incessantly?

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 29, 2013 3:36 p.m.

    I find it to be hysterical when byu fans continuously point to our loss to CU 2 years ago. This was during the same, exact season we utterly destroyed byu on their homefield, 54-10. Just imagine what CU would've done to byu then.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 29, 2013 3:33 p.m.

    For instance, UTAH only plays ONCE in CA in 2013, at USC. Furthermore, UTAH misses CAL in '13 and '14. USC/UCLA rotate opposite each-other against UTAH, annually. Stanford will be at home again in 2015.

    Once again, UTAH doesn't play all 4 CA PAC-12 schools in CA each season and won't always be guaranteed to play Stanford/CAL, since they play in The North Division.

    FSU is one more opportunity for CA recruits to play in front of their people in their home-state and is an area we recruit in, which makes playing them at home important, too. Additionally, some recruits know players at FSU, to boot.

    Again, byu does nothing for us beyond a guaranteed victory to pad our record, annually, not to mention the satisfaction of seeing the implosion following beating them, as we witnessed w/bm and falslev this last season. No further impact on recruiting, etc.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    May 29, 2013 3:30 p.m.

    jdub1942

    "If Utah loses to BYU we aren't going bowling anyway."

    Yet, BYU IS good enough to go bowling and to be ranked even after a blow-out loss to Utah.

    "...if we are bad enough to lose to BYU we wont be good enough to find 6 other wins."

    U weren't even good enough to find 6 wins even with a narrow win over BYU.

    While Utah's entire season hangs in the balance with a win or loss to the Cougars, BYU's program is mature enough to understand that one game does not a season make.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    May 29, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    Oregonian said:

    "Imagine what the results would be if the question was between Utah going to a bowl game or beating Colorado, their real rival."

    The result would be no BYU in the conversation. Left out in the cold like the independent path they are on.
    Funny how BYU fans throw "rival" around. The have a losing record against both Utah and Colorado.

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    May 29, 2013 3:01 p.m.

    @ Spokane Ute

    "Listening to Cougar nation beat on their chest about going to the Kraft Macaroni and Cheese bowl year, after year, after year.........is nice to."

    What is better? Going to a bowl game or going to the cupboard to pickup a bowl and trying to decide what chips to buy in the store for bowl season?

    If your choice is the latter than that's fine with me. BYU having a losing season is unsatisfactory for me even if one of those wins were against the Utes. For BYU, I choose to watch them in bowl season over putting chips in a bowl watching other teams play.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 29, 2013 2:59 p.m.

    @sportsfan--

    AZUTE1

    "FSU was scheduled primarily for recruiting purposes, in addition to the fact they're competitive."

    laughing hysterically

    Utah already plays USC, UCLA, Stanford and Cal; why on earth would the Utes need a 2015 game in Fresno "for recruiting purposes"?

    As for "competitiveness":

    Overall - 36-29, 0-4 in bowls

    THAT's what you call "competitive"?........

    --What are you, the authority on how many games over in CA UTAH needs to play in order qualify as scheduling FSU for recrulting-purposes?

    Are you also the authority on what constitutes, "competitive"? You attempt to ridicule/mock me here, yet you point-out the fact FSU remains above .500 and regularly plays in bowl games. The only comparison I made was to the fact we beat byu, annually, and that FSU offers an extra-benefit relative to recruiting. We all know UTAH already owns our state in recruiting, but CA is enormous and is a place we need an even stronger foot-hold in. And UTAH doesn't play all 4 CA in CA, annually.

    Contrary to the ubiquitous wishful-thinking down there in utah county, the universe doesn't revolve around byu.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 29, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    ajweston:

    That's not Duckhunter you're quoting there. That was me. #lookingstupid

    "'When was the last time a talented Ute deferred the NFL draft...' UH, A little guy names STAR did it last year!!!"

    Your parsing of my words = epic fail. I did NOT say "When was the last time a talented Ute deferred the NFL draft...". I said, "When was the last time a talented Ute deferred the NFL draft...so they wouldn't leave SLC 0-3 vs. their hated rival..." Do you see the difference. Star DID return to play for his Senior year, but NOT because he didn't want to leave 0-3 vs. his little brother. He was already 2-0 by the time he decided to return. #lookingstupid

    "5 of the last 10 Bowl game U played in were against Mid Majors VS 2 of the last 8 BYU has played in were Mid Majors."

    First of all, 5 of the last 10 bowl games YOU played were vs. mid-majors. Of OUR last 10, it was 4. Second, of your last 8, it was vs. 3 mid-majors. Not 2. #lookingstupid

  • jdub1942 PROVO, UT
    May 29, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    If Utah loses to BYU we aren't going bowling anyway. Why? because if we are bad enough to lose to BYU we wont be good enough to find 6 other wins. That is the quality of BYU vs. the quality of the rest of our schedule. I'm sorry but BYU isn't that good.

    Both teams are made up with players who have a lot of pride for there school, that is why the rivalry is so intense and brings out the worst in many of us.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 29, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    2fer

    "It's fun to compare records and debate about which team is better, but the reality is that whatever happened in the past is completely irrelevant. What the two programs do in the future is all that matters."

    Utah fans only say this because the Utes have practically NOTHING before 2004, only a couple of flash-in-the-pan seasons in 2004 and 2008, and NOTHING since.

    7-11 in the PAC in your first two seasons isn't an anomaly, it IS your future.

    Welcome back to the future where trying to beat BYU is your bowl game.

    Get used to it.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 29, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Remind us how far back U have to go to get to FIVE Top 25 finishes.

    BYU can count that many in the Bronco/Kyle era.

    And since Utah fans are fond of citing their AP finishes,

    remind us how far back U have to go to get to FIVE AP Top 25 finishes.

    On a national scale, the Utes aren't even in the same ball park as BYU.

    That's why U have to cite your recent head-to-head success; U simply can't compete with BYU in overall success.

    2011 #25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)
    2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) bowl winner > unranked/#61 Utah(5-7) bowl no show

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    May 29, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    patriot

    "I do suspect however that if the U loses to the Y they won't be going to any of those top ten bowls anyway since the Y hasn't been ranked in the top 15 or 20 for quite some time."

    Depends on what your definition of "quite some time" is:

    BYU's recent Top 15 Rankings
    2006 #16/#15
    2007 #14/#15
    2009 #12/#12

    As usual, certainly more often and more recent than

    Utah's recent Top 15 Rankings
    2004 #4/#5
    2008 #2/#4

  • ExecutorIoh West Jordan, UT
    May 29, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    A single game accomplishment over the national recognition of a bowl and tradition of winning is a sign of a desperate program. While rivalry games are important to many schools out there, few nationally recognized programs would trade a winning record and bowl eligibility for a rivalry win.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 29, 2013 1:52 p.m.

    Bluto,

    Nice job of going back 50 years. I guess you have too when you have been owned by your rival the last three meetings and 8 of the last 11. The drop kick and leather helmets...those were the days.

  • ajweston Murray, UT
    May 29, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    Duckhunter are you serious? Need to get your facts straight before you write something that never comes down son. "When was the last time a talented Ute deferred the NFL draft..." UH, A little guy names STAR did it last year!!! "It was YOUR team who had been playing ho-hum, third tier mid-majors in a mid-majorey bowl game..." 5 of the last 10 Bowl game U played in were against Mid Majors VS 2 of the last 8 BYU has played in were Mid Majors. "Hadn't been able to sell out the stadium..." What are you talking about? BYU sells out MOST OF THEIR GAMES EVERY YEAR while having about 40% MORE seats to fill than tiny R.E.C. And finally "pull out all the stops to schedule a BYE before the rivalry game.." You obviously have NO clue how scheduling works in college football. Utah chose that date this year NOT BYU. There were 2 available dates in September for them to pick from and DR Hill preferred to have a BYE before playing the Bruins. #lookingstupid

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    @ bluto

    BYU's accomplishments WERE "national" in scope. Nobody cares about the 80's anymore. Much like Army, BYU's powerhouse days are long behind them. There isn't a single big-time program that brags about finishing ranked; especially when it's as high as BYU usually finishes. In today's game BYU is just another "good" mid-major program with middle-of-the-road bowl games as its ceiling. Utah doesn't have to get back to anyone; the school has moved on.

    It's fun to compare records and debate about which team is better, but the reality is that whatever happened in the past is completely irrelevant. What the two programs do in the future is all that matters. And unfortunately for the BYU die-hards, Utah is in a better position to succeed moving forward. The impact of conf. affiliation and the increased revenue can already be seen at the U in the way of facilities and recruiting rankings. It's only a matter of time before the wins follow.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 29, 2013 1:28 p.m.

    It obviously depends on the bowl. Most bowls today don't mean squat. Only about 10 bowl games are worth bragging about and for those .... certainly going to the bowl is #1 above everything else. I do suspect however that if the U loses to the Y they won't be going to any of those top ten bowls anyway since the Y hasn't been ranked in the top 15 or 20 for quite some time.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    May 29, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    FatMan86

    "Time to move on from BYU folks."

    LOL!

    That's what Utah fans claimed they were doing THREE years ago when Utah was invited to the PAC.

    Unfortunately for U, old habits are hard to break. Utah's number one goal every year is, and always will be, to beat BYU. Top 25 finishes and conference championships are something the Utes rarely achieve because that takes an season-long commitment to accomplish. It's much easier to focus all of your energy on winning one game, than to bring it week after week after week.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 29, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    Winning a bowl game is awesome, but watching BYU fans snivel, alibi, make excuses and refuse to give credit when the Utes beat them is priceless. Listening to Cougar nation beat on their chest about going to the Kraft Macaroni and Cheese bowl year, after year, after year.........is nice to.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 12:53 p.m.

    @Wac padding

    Outside of BYU's 23 Conference Champoinships over 40 years (compared to Utah's 5 in 50) every other BYU accomplishment is "National" in scope.

    When the Utah football program can match BYU's accomplishments, then get back to us.

    Until then, U are just "Posing Wannabees" wearing "Masks of False Bravado".

  • Oregonian Sherwood, OR
    May 29, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    Imagine what the results would be if the question was between Utah going to a bowl game or beating Colorado, their real rival.

  • FatMan86 West Jordan, UT
    May 29, 2013 12:31 p.m.

    This is why the Utes don't win games in the PAC 12. Time to move on from BYU folks. Ute fans love to crow about their membership in the PAC 12, but now it's time to start acting like a real member. Time to set your sights above an over-rated, over-hyped, weakling independent. I can't fathom why any Ute fan would not see the greater value in wins over Cal, UCLA, USC, Wash, etc over an unimpressive independent that mostly loses to the top teams in the nation. Come on!

  • Hegdehog Bountiful, UT
    May 29, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    This is news?! I thought it was universally understood and accepted that this was the case. Of course ute fans care more about beating BYU than they do playing in a bowl game. The BYU game IS their bowl game.

    I do openly acknowledge NV's point that fewer Ute fans would be willing to trade the Rose Bowl for a victory over BYU.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 11:44 a.m.

    WACpaddled

    "Since when did those things become prerequisites to be good in sports?"

    The first two, not so much, but significant accomplishments on a national scale IS a pre-requisite to being considered "good" in sports on a national scale.

    In the 20-year history of the Director's Cup, which recognizes overall accomplishments of men's and women's programs across all sports, BYU has finished ahead of Utah 20 out of 20 years, usually by 20 to 40 places.

    Since 1972, USC(25) and UCLA(20) are the only Western teams with more football Top 25 finishes than BYU(18). Utah(6) isn't even close.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 29, 2013 11:19 a.m.

    uteBusters
    Park City, UT
    ekute

    Bigger stadium, bigger fanbase, vastly superior accomplishments on a national scale - it's no wonder that Utah fans are so giddy every time they beat their big brother; it's the only accomplishment our conference bottom-dwelling little brothers have to talk about.

    __________

    Since when did those things become prerequisites to be good in sports? You lost to San Jose St on the road-smaller stadium, smaller fan base, and the finished the 2012 season ranked. BYU did not. BYU also loses to teams at home and on the road to vastly smaller WCC schools with small gyms and fan bases.

  • bbj1979 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    Bowl game, no question. I love it when Utah beats BYU, but a losing season is not worth it.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 29, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    @Ragnar

    You actually probably have a better grip on this than most utah "fans". The truth is this is not really a one answer question. I would guess that most people on both sides of this thing would look at it situationally and not as "we want this over this no matter what".

    If utah "fans" had the choice of going 11-1 and getting to the rose bowl with the one loss coming to BYU then most of them would probably take that scenario. I would guess they would even take 9-3 or 8-4 with a bowl game and a loss to BYU. Likewise BYU fans would take a bowl game and national ranking over just beating utah.

    For me I would prefer 6-6 with a bowl game and a loss to utah over 5-7 with no bowl game and a win over utah, going to a bowl game is a bigger deal to me than beating utah, it has more implications plus it is a lot of fun to go to bowl games and I enjoy it.

    But I do believe utah "fans" put more emotion into the BYU game than BYU fans.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 29, 2013 11:02 a.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT

    utah on the otherhand invests just about everything it has into the BYU game and generally comes up lacking in national accomplishments and recognitions as evdienced by the fact they have only finished a season ranked 5 times in their entire history and have never had even one national award winning player. Compare that to BYU's extremely extensive list of national rankings, all american's, and individual awards including the most presitigious of them all, the National Championship and the Heisman Trophy and you can see the vast difference in what each univeristy considers to be more important.

    _____

    Why does BYU invest so much in sports accomplishments? It's just hype like kids waiting for the Wiggle's or Justin Bieber tour to show up in town. The major conferences don't care about a WAC Legacy, otherwise you would be an official member of one. All it has rewarded you with is an ESPN contract where people watch BYU loose to ranked teams, and pad the schedule with wins over bottom feeders.

  • Ragnar Danneskjold Bountiful, UT
    May 29, 2013 10:51 a.m.

    This is tough in some ways. As a Ute fan who lives in Utah, it is important to win the rivalry game. But bowl appearances are what will attract recruits. I will agree with Naval Vet in some ways. Would I rather beat BYU and go 5-7, or go to a bad bowl and be 6-6? Probably beat BYU. But anything beyond that borderline situation would go to the bowl game. The rivalry game only has increased importance to me because I live here. If I lived in Arizona or Southern California, those games would be more important than BYU.

    The real question as to the importance, is how many teams could you substitute into that question? I would also take a win over a handful of PAC12 opponents in that scenario as well.
    I guess I am petty, but I like to have bragging rights in the work place and neighborhood.

  • uteBusters Park City, UT
    May 29, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    ekute

    Bigger stadium, bigger fanbase, vastly superior accomplishments on a national scale - it's no wonder that Utah fans are so giddy every time they beat their big brother; it's the only accomplishment our conference bottom-dwelling little brothers have to talk about.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    Was this article for U fans or both Y/U fans?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 29, 2013 10:20 a.m.

    @juggernaut

    1st of all mildred is a utah "fan" pretending to be a BYU fan. 2nd of all I never said I don't care about beating utah, I care about BYU beating every single team they play. But that isn't the point here. I would prefer, and always have prefered, that BYU have better records, go to bowl games, and be nationally ranked. utah "fans" care more about beating BYU than anything else. It is just a matter of how each fanbase looks at things. For a realitively unaccomplished commuter school languishing in an out of the way state and at the bottom of its conference with no hope of improvement in sight then it is understandable that they would view beating the team that has so completely outshined them nationally for so many decades as the pinnacle of their season.

    On the otherhand for a team that has actually reached the pinnacle of the sport, as a team and as individual players on those teams, it is simply not as big a deal. They tend to look at the big picture.

    Hey neither is right or wrong, just preferences.

  • Mark321 Las Vegas, NV
    May 29, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    This is not that surprising. Anyone, who comments on these boards would see that beating BYU is more important to Ute fans than anything else, even over a losing record. Utah finished 5-7 last year and they felt like they won another BCS bowl game because at least they beat BYU.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    May 29, 2013 9:57 a.m.

    Here we go again...It doesn't matter that we own them on the field, Because... They Have A Bigger Stadium. lol.

    Go Utes.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    965

    The "overwhelming number of BYU fans" posting is simply another indication of the overwhelming difference in size of fan bases.

    It's why BYU has had a 65,000-seat stadium since 1982, and why Utah still doesn't have enough fans to justify building more than a 45,000-seat stadium.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 29, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    "Would Utah football fans rather beat rival BYU and finish with a losing season or lose the rivalry game and finish the season with a bowl game?"

    The blog UTE FOOTBALL CENTRAL posed that question to Twitter followers earlier this month.

    It's doubtful even a handful of BYU fans would even be interested in, let alone follow, such a blog, so the vast majority of responders were obviously Utah fans. Of course, the usual suspects on this blog immediately go into denial, trying to paint the D-News reporting this as being part of some vast "right-wing conspiracy".

    The constant obsession by Utah fans/BYU haters of all things BYU reveals the true sentiment on the hill. Beating BYU is their number one priority. Not going to a bowl game in 2012 was a distant second to pulling out a narrow victory over BYU.

  • 965 Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 9:21 a.m.

    It should tell you who its really more important too by the overwhelming number of BYU fans posting compared to Utah fans.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    May 29, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    AZUTE1

    "FSU was scheduled primarily for recruiting purposes, in addition to the fact they're competitive."

    laughing hysterically

    Utah already plays USC, UCLA, Stanford and Cal; why on earth would the Utes need a 2015 game in Fresno "for recruiting purposes"?

    As for "competitiveness":

    2008 - 7-6, lost to Colo St in New Mexico Bowl
    2009 - 8-5, lost to Wyo in New Mexico Bowl
    2010 - 8-5, lost to Hawaii by 22, beat Idaho by 3, lost to No Ill by 33 Humanitarian Bowl
    2011 - 4-9, lost to NM St, no bowl
    2012 - 9-4, lost to SMU by 33 in Hawaii Bowl

    Overall - 36-29, 0-4 in bowls

    THAT's what you call "competitive"?

    It's laughable the utterly preposterous spin Utah fans have to fabricate in order to justify their PACy WACy scheduling.

  • rfrmac Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 29, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    First, we love to beat BYU in anything. But, and there always is one, the game doesn't mean as much as it once did. Bowl games are important. Especially good bowl games. I find the comparison meaningless any more. Utah fans want both. We want to continue to beat BYU in football and go to a bowl game. BYU continues to get top billing with this paper and sports radio in this town. Utah continues to build its' program and facilities to compete in the BCS world and the PAC-12. That is what is really important now. We don't just want to be part of the PAC-12 but be a leader in it. Whether we play BYU every year is not important any more. They will do what's best for them and we need to do what's best for us. That is the new game now. If we do that, the bowls will take care of themselves and the scheduling with BYU will too.

    Personally, I am looking forward to the rest. Sorry sports radio and D-news, many of us Utah fans think the same way.

  • chase SL Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    No survey needed. I could have told you that.

  • alternate Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 8:21 a.m.

    Have to smile. I suspect a lot of the voters are the same people who hang out on-line waiting with baited breath for another BYU story they can comment on and spew their hate.

    As I remember, there was a lot of emptiness around Utah football this past December. I know in my family a lot of plans changed when there was nowhere to go. A very disappointing year.

    Before you go much further you better talk to the players and coaches who definitely want to go to a bowl game. Ditto for the post season in any sport. Bowl games and tournaments are flat out fun.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 29, 2013 7:56 a.m.

    Beating byu annually only benefits us so much.

    FSU was scheduled primarily for recruiting purposes, in addition to the fact they're competitive.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    GoRed
    WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

    "The game IS a big deal for the byu fanbase, as evidenced by their outcry when Utah decided to take a two year hiatus from the series to play Michigan (a much harder challenge, by the way)."
    Funny thing that it is not Michigan you got instead of BYU it is Fresno State. BYU is also playing Michigan in 2015 and would still play Utah.

    It IS a big game, as evidenced by Van Noy giving up his chance to be drafted this year in order to try and get one win in four years against his rivals. I don't know KVN but he might thing returning would give him a better draft in 2014. Better wait and go in the first round then the forth.

    " And it IS a big game as evidenced by Tom Holmoe scheduling a bye for byu THE WEEK BEFORE THE UTAH GAME." On thing about being independent you make your own schedules. Nothing wrong with taking advantage of that.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:39 a.m.

    Naval vet

    Not sure where to start. Remember when I told you Utah has a large fan base that hates BYU more then they like Utah. So if it is the Rose bowl fine but 11-2 is not good enough if you lose to BYU.

    As for the rest. Are Utah fans going to start chanting BYU cheated the scheduled a bye before the our game. Your right it would be nice if BYU was in a major conference but they are not but one advantage they do have is they make there own schedule. Why shouldn't they take advantage of that.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    May 29, 2013 7:33 a.m.

    When you have lost 4 out of the last 5, what can you do? Apparently, the last resort is to pretend you don't care.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 29, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    Uteanymous
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    utahcountyute

    "The fact is, even if Utah loses to BYU, they can still get to the Rose Bowl."

    And I would love it. In fact, while we are fantasizing, lets imagine BYU beating Wisconsin too, and Wisconsin going to the Rose Bowl.

    Then we could have TWO teams beaten by BYU playing in the granddaddy of them all.

    Of course, if BYU lost a different game, they could still end up in the Kraft Fight Hunger bowl...

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:26 a.m.

    There is only one College football program in the State of Utah that has "Produced" the following...

    -A "Unanimous" National Championship
    -A Heisman Trophy winner
    -A Maxwell Trophy winner
    -A Doak Walker Trophy winner
    -Davey O'Brien Trophy winners (4)
    -Sammy Baugh Trophy winners (7)
    -C.F.P. Awards (3)
    -Hall of Fame Coach...National Awards (6)
    -Conference Championships in the modern era (23)
    -Consensus All-Americans (16)
    -All-Americans 70+
    -Super Bowl MVP
    -NFL MVPs (2)
    -18 Top-25 finishes

    To name but a few...
    Not one of these things has the U of U program equaled....Not one!

    "If you done it, it ain't bragging"
    Walt Whitman

    Do Utah fans look to BYU as "The" game on their schedule, every year?
    Of course they do!

    Just look at how much catching up they (Utah) has to do to match BYU's Legacy, Tradition and National Brand.

  • Adirondack Cougar Queensbury, NY
    May 29, 2013 6:35 a.m.

    A lot of trash talk as usual from both sides, but to me everyone missed an important point regarding the bowl games. By going to a bowl game a team gets extra practice time, which in my opinion is what helps get a team to a higher level. So I think if you asked either coach, they would both say 'give me the bowl game.'

  • Go Utes! Springville, UT
    May 29, 2013 6:18 a.m.

    I would so much rather go to an upper tier bowl game than beat BYU. If it is the New Mexico bowl than i would rather beat BYU.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 29, 2013 4:31 a.m.

    The "non-scientific" poll attached to this article says that 60% of Ute fans would rather go to a bowl than beat BYU. Does that make this whole thread null and void?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    May 28, 2013 11:49 p.m.

    I hope the DN has a similar poll for the byu fans in the near future. If not, then it's my opinion that this poll was created to bait the Ute fans.

    Go Utes.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 28, 2013 11:33 p.m.

    utahcountyute

    "The fact is, even if Utah loses to BYU, they can still get to the Rose Bowl."

    Theoretically, yes.

    In reality, only in your crimson-colored dreams.

    Of course, you're welcome to go on pretending it could happen, but we all know it's NEVER going to happen.

  • midpacmajor Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 28, 2013 11:26 p.m.

    GoRed

    "The truth is, most Utah fans don't care that much for the BYU game anymore."

    Which of course explains why you immediately cited Utah's recent and lifetime record versus BYU, and why U rushed the field THREE times after narrowly escaping with a win last year.

    You're so blinded by your crimson glasses wearing BYU obsession, that you don't even recognize where your own true passion lies.

    The truth is, there is absolutely NOTHING Utah fans HATE more than losing to BYU, or delight more in beating BYU.

    Suffering four-game losing streaks in back-to-back seasons in the PAC 12 hardly raised an eyebrow in Uteville.

    Suffering a four-game losing streak to BYU would cause a monumental meltdown in Uteville.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 28, 2013 11:17 p.m.

    Utah State is the most important game - They beat us last year and it will be the first test of the 2013 team.
    Oregon State is the most important game - They are ranked and a PAC-12 opponent.
    BYU is the most important game - The outcome could very well determine bowl eligibility for both teams.
    Every league game is the most important game - Each game is critical to bowl determination. As last year proved each game could determine if bowl eligible and then which of 8 bowls PAC-12 teams can participate in.

    When BYU and Utah were in the same league I attended the last 5 games in Provo. Two years ago I went to USC not BYU game (duh! ) This year I will miss two Utah games - WSU (late November and financial considerations) and BYU (league games far more important!) That is how far down my priority list the Utah/BYU game has fallen for me personally!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    May 28, 2013 11:16 p.m.

    Why do we have to choose either/or?
    We've been doing both for years.

    Plus, we've gone to and won bigger bowls.

    Playing byu doesn't do anything for our program.
    It's not what got us into the Pac12.

    Thanks for the memories though.

    Go Utes.

  • The Watch Dog tumwater, WA
    May 28, 2013 11:09 p.m.

    It's an awesome game but an unhealthy rivalry. given the state of the relationship between the fans, I'm glad we have a 2 year break so that everyone can cool down some. So I wish the fans would lighten up a bit because I actually blame the bad blood for the 2 year break more than the "scheduling problem." But..........there's no other game I'd rather see than the Holy War! GO BYU!

  • MT Seats Salt Lake City, UT
    May 28, 2013 11:04 p.m.

    Such polls are both transparent and deliberate in their design in order to validate a specific agenda. In this case, the local media desperate to keep this game alive. Consequently, I would not respond as neither option reflects my true feelings on the matter. Let us be clear - the cost/benefit of playing BYU yields a negative risk factor for Utah. As recent recruiting efforts demonstrate, the ideal non-conference replacement would be against most any BCS Texas school. However, the scheduling of Fresno State should serve as a clear indication of Utah's present disposition toward BYU. One that I and a host of fellow Utah fans wholeheartedly share.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 28, 2013 10:41 p.m.

    This is news? Like people didn't already know the outcome of this question? My favorite is when they had an entire show on the radio dedicated to BYU/Utah football not long ago. The question was whether ute fans cared about playing BYU or not. They were blown away by all the calls, texts, and emails from ute fans saying "we don't care, who needs them, blah blah" and talking all this smack. Hilarious how in denial ute fans are about their game against BYU. The radio show host even said, "if you don't care why so much noise and banter...if it were Wyoming, or Air Force, etc we wouldn't be getting any phone calls". I love this rivalry, hope it never dies.

  • LaMont Levi Hansen Provo, UT
    May 28, 2013 10:03 p.m.

    Finally, some hard numbers to prove what we all know. I wasn't surprised at all at the results--in fact I voted 13 times since I know at least that many Utes that I'm pretty sure think BYU is more important than a bowl game.

  • hobbes1012003 Kaysville, UT
    May 28, 2013 10:02 p.m.

    And this is why Utah will never get anywhere. they are more concerned about beating BYU than they are becoming a nationally recognized football team. If Utah beats BYU and then sits on the couch during the post season, then what exactly do the Utes have to brag about?

    there are enough bowl games that it is just shameful if you don't make one. Utah fans, you need to rethink your priorities.

    you enjoy the couch, I will enjoy watching the Cougars play in a bowl game.

  • LaMont Levi Hansen Provo, UT
    May 28, 2013 9:59 p.m.

    The Utes have gotten pretty arrogant, but I will take the National Championship game or Rose Bowl over a Utah win this year.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    May 28, 2013 9:48 p.m.

    If only one of these teams temporarily dropped the other from their schedule, and then that other team's fan base whined about it for months.

    Then we'd finally know who this game means more to.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    May 28, 2013 9:44 p.m.

    I believe the unscientific study is accurate. Based on the behavior of fans at the Rivalry games and how closely so many Ute fans follow BYU articles, the results don't surprise me at all.

    That being said, I am not ashamed to admit that I would rather see BYU beat Utah than see them in an insignificant bowl game. However, if the option were a BCS bowl game, I would take the BCS bowl game.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    May 28, 2013 9:08 p.m.

    The fact is, even if Utah loses to byU, they can still get to the Rose Bowl. This just kills the byU "fans" on this board. They won't accept it...it's not possible... not a chance. lol

    Who wants and needs a win in this game more than the other? We all know the answer to that one.

    Too funny that the Dnews dug this poll up to stir the pot when they ask for "civil dialogue". Yeah right.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    May 28, 2013 8:54 p.m.

    Some Ute fans make the comments that playing these '3rd level' bowl games just don't interest them.

    Well we all know that when Colorado and Utah were added to the PAC10 that the Kraft Fight Hunger and New Mexico Bowls were tied in specially for the sixth and seventh place 'winners'

    "It is your destiny"... if you can ever win enough games again. LOL

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    May 28, 2013 7:55 p.m.

    This is a weak article. It confesses that it draws its conclusions from a "self-proclaimed unscientific poll."

    Worse yet, many of you believe that those who voted that the "rivalry game victory more important" than a bowl bid are speaking for the Ute fan base at large.

    They don't speak for me.

    As much as I enjoy it when Utah beats BYU - and that has happened more often than not in the last 20 years - a bowl game means more to me.

    A win against the Cougars means the Utes played well on that specific Saturday. A bowl invitation indicates that the Utes have had a successful season. And now that Utah plays in a tougher conference, bowl games have more significance than they did when the Utes racked up wins against MWC opponents.

    I predict that this year's Utah-BYU game will be another nail-biter. I hope that Utah wins again. But in the end, it's only one of twelve games on the schedule...

    Go Utes!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 28, 2013 7:26 p.m.

    According to BYU fans:

    Quest t-shirts... $15
    Airport celebrations ... $30
    Getting OWNED by your rival... Priceless!

  • theDailyObserver Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 28, 2013 7:23 p.m.

    @ TheSportsAuthority:

    I don't know how you can say Utah football's success had 'NOTHING' to do with Utah being invited to the PAC, since Larry Scott specifically mentioned it at RES when he made the formal invitation to Utah in 2010. Why don't you educate yourself, before calling others 'delusional.' You'll get more creditability dubbing yourself 'thesportsauthority', and not simply come across as a one-dimensional y fan/Utah hater.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 28, 2013 7:20 p.m.

    Mister J

    "Easy Question; Simple answer."

    Trust a Ute to completely misunderstand question; "all of the above" was not one of the choices.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    May 28, 2013 7:20 p.m.

    In your dreams, duckhunter.

    Well said, Naval Vet and motorbike.

    The truth is, most Utah fans don't care that much for the byu game anymore. Why should they? 3 in a row, 4 of 5, 8 of 11, and 56-34-4 overall. There's little more to prove. The game IS a big deal for the byu fanbase, as evidenced by their outcry when Utah decided to take a two year hiatus from the series to play Michigan (a much harder challenge, by the way). It IS a big game, as evidenced by Van Noy giving up his chance to be drafted this year in order to try and get one win in four years against his rivals. And it IS a big game as evidenced by Tom Holmoe scheduling a bye for byu THE WEEK BEFORE THE UTAH GAME.

    One thing I will say. The D News knows how to stir the pot with their byu-friendly fanbase. Sadly and unfairly, they usually do it at Utah's expense.

  • Lifelong Republican Orem, UT
    May 28, 2013 7:02 p.m.

    I still get a chuckle every time is see a Pac 12 sticker or billboard or flag or hat or (what else do they put them on?).

    Nothing like being the bottom dweller in almost every sport in your conference. I guess the extra money makes up for the empty huntsman center every game for the basketball season.

    I really don't think either school is sitting very pretty right now.

    I actually think college sports as a whole has taken a huge hit the last 10 years or so.

    Across the nation, fans are losing out. We want the rivalries. We could't care less about money. The traditions have been lost and sports are becoming less relevant to the local fans.

    It is sad no matter how you look at it.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    May 28, 2013 7:00 p.m.

    Easy Question; Simple answer.

    Beat the sons of provo and go bowling!

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    May 28, 2013 6:44 p.m.

    Interesting article but even more interesting comments. Got a big chuckle from all the Y fans posting about 'what U fans think'. Amazing that some of you are so smart that you can speak for your rivals!
    Then there is the repeated post from Duckhunter who amazingly knows the goal of the Utah football program. Most of the U fans would disagree that our entire focus is on beating the Y, although we have been very proficient at this over the past 11 years. He follows that comment up by repeating the accomplishments from 30 years ago, none of which happened in the current BCS world of college football.
    Not that any Y fans will actually accept a comment from a real U fan but I totally agree with Naval Vet. I'd rather go to the Rose Bowl and lose to the Y but rather beat the Y instead of going to the Armed Forces or similar bowl.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 28, 2013 6:31 p.m.

    nosaerfoecioveht

    Does winning the PAC 12 South guarantee U a bowl game?

    theDailyObserver

    You're completely delusional. Utah's brief football flash-in-the-pan success in 2004 and 2008 had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Utes being invited to the PAC. Utah's better cultural and academic profile, and 2nd largest fan base in the Utah market were the main factors in the Utes' invitation to the PAC. Utah's PAC 12 bottom dwelling status in every sport except women's gymnastics is proof positive that Utah wasn't invited because of their athletic excellence. The PAC knew what they were getting in Utah; a whipping boy for the big boys of the conference, nothing more.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    May 28, 2013 6:28 p.m.

    Naval Vet told Ducky just how it really is and of course he was correct. Let go of the Hatred of everything Ute, Ducky. You crawl out of the woodwork on every article this can't be healthy. I like the rivalry game, but it sure will be nice to get away from so many rabid BYU fans for a couple of years!

  • Tom in CA Vallejo, CA
    May 28, 2013 6:01 p.m.

    Duckhunter - very well said, Brother.

    Naval Vet - Rose Bowl??? Get real. You must be kidding.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 28, 2013 5:47 p.m.

    Cowboy Dude
    SAINT GEORGE, UT

    "As if winning a post season game for an Independent is the same as winning a post season game in the PAC-12...not apples to apples."

    Here's a clue: IF Utah succeeds in winning six games this season, they may well end up in the... drumroll please... Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl. Their likely opponent: BYU. Looks pretty Apples to Apples to me.

  • Joe Schmoe Orem, UT
    May 28, 2013 5:35 p.m.

    What Utah fans have to realize is that the Utah administrators no longer call the shots. They are all subjects to Larry Scott now. He is the overlord and they must bow down to whatever he says. They sold out. I can't blame them. They are in a better place as far as money goes. While the cellar isn't a happy place, at least they can keep looking at the checks that are coming in from their overlord.

    Maybe some day they will get to a bowl game again.

    Maybe.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    May 28, 2013 5:19 p.m.

    It's interesting that some of the kids on the hill are pretending that this is a choice between the Utes going to a major bowl or beating BYU.

    Let's get real.

    There's absolutely no chance the Utes are going to a major bowl if they lose to BYU.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    May 28, 2013 5:09 p.m.

    What's funny is Utah fans deluding themselves into believing that the tables have turned... ironically, joining the PAC has been a trip back to the future for the Utes, where BYU is once again Utah's bowl game.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    May 28, 2013 5:06 p.m.

    Seems like a lot of people on both sides are talking about this like it means Ute fans would rather beat BYU than win the Pac 12 South.

    Nooooooooope.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 28, 2013 5:03 p.m.

    Snack PAC

    "The Utes haven't lost to BYU and still won a conference championship in over SEVENTY years"

    Quite obviously, Utah's entire season hangs in the balance when the Utes play BYU.

  • theDailyObserver Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 28, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    Y Dad/Grad:

    Your post makes little sense. Looking at the "long haul", as you put it, is exactly what got Utah into the PAC in the first place. Urban Meyer got things started over a decade ago with asking to join the Pac 10, and Utah football's winning tradition over the course of that decade is largely what got the U the invite (we certainly know it wasn't from the basketball team).

    If BYU had been thinking more long term, Y fans would be attempting to hurl insults at U fans from the likes of the Big 12 conference, and not from lonely independence way out West.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    May 28, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    That question belong to Bronco M., what is his answer? Bowl game is just one more game to play and no implication of playing for the NC (NO Question About That). Playing in the Rose, Fiesta, Orange and Cotton Bowls are nice but New Mexico? I know we all BYU want to win this u game but the rest of this 2013 season will be no cup cakes (well Idaho). I don't mind this year at SF Kraft Bowl which is great place to be at.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    May 28, 2013 4:59 p.m.

    It would be interesting to see a comparison between actual scientific polls done 5 years ago, and today. The Y game is still important, but much less than it used to be. I feel like there has been a big shift since the vast improvements that came in the rest of our schedule with joining the Pac 12. This was evidenced by the U dropping the Y for a couple years to play Michigan, which most Utes I know are happy about, though this seems to be a sore subject for a lot of Y fans.

    I agree with NavalVet and Motorbike that the answer to this completely depends on the Bowl. Utah fans have enjoyed two BCS bowls in the very recent past, and so something like the New Mexico Bowl doesn't hold a lot of meaning for us right now. I'm not surprised if most fans would still rather beat the Y.

    Either way, we can always plan on plenty of hurt Y "fans" hypocritically commenting on Utah articles about how it is the Utes who are obsessed with them.

    Never gets old for me :)

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    May 28, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    Actions speak louder than words. When was the last time ANY team rushed the field THREE times for a single victory?

    The ONLY accomplishment the Utes have talked about the last two years is beating BYU.

    Not being ranked - don't care
    Losing record in the PAC - don't care
    No bowl - don't care
    Losing to Utah State - don't care
    Losing to Utah's "new rival" - don't care
    The meer thought of losing to BYU - strikes panic into Uteville

  • Perkunas Ashburn, VA
    May 28, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    "What's funny is how the tables have turned. Utah has become the biggest game of the year for byu. We are your "bowl game."

    Nope. BYU goes to ACTUAL bowl games. Pity Ute fans have forgotten about those so quickly.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    May 28, 2013 4:42 p.m.

    motorbike

    "Utah fans simply don't get all that worked up about going to the kind of bowl games BYU has routinely been going to the past 15 years."

    bwaaahahaha!

    Utah fans bragged incessantly about Utah's 9-game winning streak until the string was broken by a resounding defeat by a WAC team in the Las Vegas Bowl. Recalling the "kind of bowl games" the Utes won during their bowl winning streak:

    1999 Las Vegas Bowl vs Fresno State(8-5)
    2000 Las Vegas Bowl vs USC(6-6)
    2001 Liberty Bowl vs So Miss(9-4)
    2004 Fiesta Bowl vs Pittsburgh(8-4)
    2005 Emerald Bowl vs Ga Tech(7-5)
    2006 Armed Forces Bowl vs Tulsa(8-5)
    2007 Poinsettia Bowl vs Navy(8-5)
    2008 Sugar Bowl vs Alabama(12-2)
    2009 Poinsettia Bowl vs Cal(8-5)

    Utah fans get all worked up about ANY bowl win, regardless of how mediocre the competition might be.

  • Hochmut West Jordan, UT
    May 28, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    Mr PAC12FAN, to go to a bowl game you need victories, so beating BYU would actually be a positive; Utah has always maintained that winning the PAC12 South is their goal--and so losing to BYU means nothing; so why not schedule the game? Image! They are affraid of the loss. Utah has had a nice little run of victories but I do recall not a couple decades ago that BYU would win 9 of 10 games for a nice little run of their own. It flows up and down, so why not put away all the talking points and schedule the game like the fans want and enjoy the moment, win or lose.

  • Nuschler SAN MARCOS, CA
    May 28, 2013 4:36 p.m.

    Beat BYU and let everyone know within earshot that they are members of the PAC-12. Doesn't matter if they continue to be the doormat of said conference.

  • Juggernaut Cedar Hills, UT
    May 28, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    Hey duckhunter and millred, you mean to tell me that your team doesn't care about beating their rival. And you are a fan of team that has that sort of mindset. Maybe you are right, they keep losing to them.

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    May 28, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    So...as a BYU fan.... I would rather just not play Utah... Going to a bowl is just second nature in Provo.

  • imcrimson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 28, 2013 4:15 p.m.

    C'mn folks. It's time to grow up emotionally. As fun as it is to beat the Y and even more fun to beat them over and over - it is NOT more important than a winning season!!!

    Case in point - We beat BYU in 2002 and then promplty fired McBride. Why? Because beating BYU is not enough anymore.

    It is called progress!! We are not in the WAC anymore it is not the 70s or 80s. It is 2013. We are in the Pac 12.

    We love to beat the team down south but we NEED to beat USC, Oregon and Stanford.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    May 28, 2013 4:01 p.m.

    @ DNews

    "Beat BYU or go to a bowl?"

    A question like that is like me asking:

    "Playing as an Indy and winning 11 games and still playing in your mid-major bowl game every year or rejoin the MWC and win the conference for a chance at a automatic berth in the Fiesta Bowl (when the new post season begins)?"

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    May 28, 2013 3:27 p.m.

    Malarky! BYwho? Can't you see why Utah fans have been bragging up beating you three years in a row? Because we have SCOREBOARD! Why does Utah want to beat BYU so bad? because it helps in recruiting the state of Utah. We're winning the games. We're winning the recruiting war. We love it.

    A bowl game? I agree with Naval Vet above. Would I rather see the Utes play in a no-name bowl or beat byu? Beat byu. But that's as far as it goes. Would I rather see Utah beat byu or beat USC, Oregon, or Stanford? I'll take the conference win.

    What's funny is how the tables have turned. Utah has become the biggest game of the year for byu. We are your "bowl game."

  • Tajemnica West Valley, Utah
    May 28, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    Wow! That explains a lot. I'm not even going to think about jumping further into this topic. No wonder they keep losing to PAC 10 teams.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    May 28, 2013 3:21 p.m.

    @armyvet - If BYU is the Indy WACers, does that make U the PAC WACers, since we play the same number of ex-WAC teams over the next few years? In case U missed the headlines, the WAC is dead. Brainstorm with Chris B and I bet you can come up with a new line.

    Even if it's the rivalry game, I can't imagine one game being more important than the whole of the season. As painful as it was to lose 2 of the last 3 on the final play to the Utes, I really enjoyed watching the Poinsetta bowl instead of sitting home in December.

  • Bubble Boy Salt Lake City, UT
    May 28, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    Wow! We cougar fans are not obsessed with big brother Utah! We are not delusional! We would never take a silly, completely unscientific poll and run wild with it! Ha!

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    May 28, 2013 3:16 p.m.

    This is just silly. The rivalry game lost relevance when Utah chose to end it yet it's still the biggest game of the year for the U. BYU has clearly moved on, building tough schedules in the years to come. BYU will continue to do well and the U will continue to dream of a Rose Bowl berth. BYU might not hit the National Championship game but at least they're aimed that way. I wish the best for the Utes but I have a hard time believing they'll do much of anything; even if they come out on top of the PAC12 South they'll still have that pesky conference championship game to deal with.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    May 28, 2013 3:12 p.m.

    As if winning a post season game for an Independent is the same as winning a post season game in the PAC-12...not apples to apples.

  • earthquakejake Logan, UT
    May 28, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    I love how this article among every article about the subject blames "scheduling conflicts" as the reason why the rivalry game won't continue for 2 years. BYU wants it to continue while Utah doesn't care for it. The University of Utah is the reason why the Holy War won't continue. What a shame.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 28, 2013 3:05 p.m.

    navelvet

    Nice spin, but we all know that the PACy WACers have absolutely NO CHANCE of going to the Rose Bowl if they lose to BYU.

    The Utes haven't lost to BYU and still won a conference championship in over SEVENTY years, since 1942.

  • 3grandslams Iowa City, IA
    May 28, 2013 3:03 p.m.

    This is going to be bad for Utah. Not only are they going to lose in Provo this year, they won't be going to any bowl games for years.

    I guess beating BYU is bigger than a "BCS" bowl game. I knew BYU was big time!

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:59 p.m.

    Blue Rampage

    Regarding - "The problem is the potential of losing to BYU and the Ute athletic department won't take that risk."

    --- That's strange, why then are they (the U) planning on scheduling BYU for at least another home and home following the 2 year hiatus?
    ________

    Regarding - "Moved on to what, becoming the Wyoming of the Pac 12, a classless doormat?"

    --- Call the Utes a conference doormat if you wish, but if you want to go with classless you ought to look at the fans in Provo for your example of what classless is. BYU fans have been far more prone to throwing trash onto fields and courts when things don't go their way than pretty much any other group of fans outside of the Wyo fans you mentioned. Now THAT's classy!
    _________

    Regarding - "In what other city do we see people putting Pac XII logos on their vehicles?"

    --- Ever been to SEC country? It clearly still pains you, not being in a conference and all ... I feel for ya brother.

  • Arm of Orion Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:56 p.m.

    FairchildIV did you read my post? I clearly mentioned that their twitter followers then asked how anyone can take this with more than a grain of salt. If you are still confused look at item 2 of my post. Yes I read the article. My questions are still valid. How can anyone take this seriously at all? And how many people responded?

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    BYU fans like Duckhunter can claim that going bowling is more important - which is great and all - but Utah fans simply don't get all that worked up about going to the kind of bowl games BYU has routinely been going to the past 15 years. If you're going to go to the New Mexico Bowl versus winning your own state bragging rights, I'd take the state bragging rights.
    Where the poll is flawed is exactly as Naval Vet explained, what bowl are we talking about? If it's a middle to upper tiered bowl game then I'm sure we'd see entirely different poll results from Ute fans.

  • FairchildIV Salt Lake City, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:33 p.m.

    Arm of Orion

    Did you even read the article? It clearly says that the poll wasn't scientific and the blog post states that the results were compiled via twitter. Regardless of the poll's validity, an interesting question none the less.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 28, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    "utah takes the game far more seriously than does BYU."

    Not so little brother. Remember...

    (1) It was YOUR team who pulled out all the stops in order to schedule a "bye" week the week prior to the game.

    (2) It was YOUR team who hadn't been able to sell out their stadium since leaving the MWC to go play WAC football with the sole exception of your gave vs...yep...you guessed it... big brother UTAH!

    (3) It was YOUR team who had been playing ho-hum, third tier mid-majors in a mid-majorey bowl game. And these bowl games were poorly viewed by your so-called "national fanbase".

    (4) It's been YOUR fanbase who had been howling the loudest about this scheduled series interruption.

    (5) When was the last time a talented Ute deferred the NFL draft, and ensuing $$$ millions for just so they wouldn't leave SLC 0-3 vs. their hated rival...like Van Noy.

    Pac-12 wins are more important for Utah. Beating Utah is the most important objective for Y. And you KNOW it!

    Just because you usually lose this game, that doesn't mean it wasn't YOUR "bowl game".

  • Mildred in Fillmore Salt Lake City, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    I agree with Duckhunter. BYU would win the Utah/BYU game every year if BYU cared about it.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 28, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    Owning scoreboard is important, locally. Finishing in the national picture is a sliding scale. As NV said, playing in, and winning, the New Mexico Bowl is nice, but far below expectations.

    Winning the Potato Bowl and finishing ranked though, is very important to Utah State, because it starts them ahead for this year. That's how legacies are built. If they play about the same this year, they'll finish higher because of last year.

    Utah fans, largely, don't understand that. I think they don't want to understand that. It ticks them off that this is the way BYU won a national championship, by a body of work that spanned several years, not just one. Utah, by comparison, had two brilliant seasons, but little continuity to build on.

    That's why Utah drools over one game and BYU looks at the long haul.

  • Carson Provo, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    LOL @ everything Ducky said!

  • Blue Rampage Salt Lake City, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:21 p.m.

    It's not "beating BYU" or "going to a bowl game," that is the problem. The problem is the potential of losing to BYU and the Ute athletic department won't take that risk.

    As for the ute fans, some of them still value the game, some do not because they think they have "moved on."

    Moved on to what, becoming the Wyoming of the Pac 12, a classless doormat? Moreover, their membership in the Pac 12 seems to be more important than their identity as ute fans. In what other city do we see people putting Pac XII logos on their vehicles? Do USC, UCLA, Arizona, Cal, Stanford, Oregon or Washington fans do that?

    This serves as more indication of the inferiority complex that ute fans still have over their second rate program that can't even get national TV exposure for a game versus USC.

    Utah should keep playing BYU because being on the same field as the Cougars is one of the best things they can do to gain media exposure and to legitimize their program among the neutral, national fan base. As it is now, nobody but a small handful of ute loyalists really care much about you.

  • Arm of Orion Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:20 p.m.

    Quick couple of items.

    1) What is the sample size? This could make a big difference in the numbers

    2) How can anyone, in any way, ever believe that this poll is representative of anything but the blog's twitter followers who took it upon themselves to answer a question?

    There are so many statistical flaws in this it's mind boggling. Please BYU fans for the sake of everyone don't cite this as evidence. It's not. At best it's something to look at and say, "Wow, what a waste of time."

  • NorCalCougarFan&Alum Elk Grove, CA
    May 28, 2013 2:20 p.m.

    Wow! Granted, it wasn't a very scientific poll, but there are more than a few Ute fans out there with self-esteem issues. As a Cougar fan, I want the whole apple pie. I say beat the Utes and become bowl eligible as well. However, if I had to pick and choose, I would prefer (at the very least) go to the Kraft Hunger Bowl in San Francisco next December than attend the Couch Potato Bowl like Utah had to do last season. Yes, it hurts to lose to the Utes, but it's way more insulting not making it to the post-season.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    Regardless of the expected spin from the usual suspects on the hill, the BYU-Utah football game is always THE BIGGEST GAME on Utah's athletic calendar!

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    May 28, 2013 2:06 p.m.

    Read any comments from Ute fans in the past year and you will know that they would rather beat BYU than go to a bowl game. This is evidenced by the fact that many Ute fans believe they had a better season last year, despite finishing with a losing record.

  • The Rock Federal Way, WA
    May 28, 2013 2:01 p.m.

    I don't think that Kyle Van Noy and Cody Hoffman will be denied this year.
    Taysom Hill is green but very talented and smart. The new offense and coaching should be a marked improvement.

    I want to see both teams do well but this year should belong to BYU.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    May 28, 2013 1:56 p.m.

    That result surprises exactly no one although some of the more prominent utah "fans" on this site will undoubtedly try to spin it otherwise. The fact is the BYU game is the most important thing to utah and its "fans" and the results prove it. utah takes the game far more seriously than does BYU. BYU spends more time concerning itself with national accomplishments and in the case of the BYU/utah rivalry that is a detriment but in the case of overall national prominence it has resulted in BYU being far superior in nationally recognized accomplishments.

    utah on the otherhand invests just about everything it has into the BYU game and generally comes up lacking in national accomplishments and recognitions as evdienced by the fact they have only finished a season ranked 5 times in their entire history and have never had even one national award winning player. Compare that to BYU's extremely extensive list of national rankings, all american's, and individual awards including the most presitigious of them all, the National Championship and the Heisman Trophy and you can see the vast difference in what each univeristy considers to be more important.

  • SoCalTrueBlue2 San Diego, CA
    May 28, 2013 1:49 p.m.

    Klye Van Noy said he is delaying his NFL career and returning for his senior year because of "unfinished business." So let it be written. So let it be done.

  • fish8 Vernal, UT
    May 28, 2013 1:49 p.m.

    You are waisting your time. It doesn't matter what the fans want. To find out why this rivalry game isn't being played just look at the bottom line. That means look at the money!!! If you get 3, 4 or 5 times as much money to play team B over playing team A - guess which one your going to play.

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    May 28, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    I would much rather go to a bowl game which means we had a good season. Beating BYU is not that great anymore. Want victories over Pac 12 opponents. Moved on mentally.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    May 28, 2013 1:37 p.m.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Utah is still the little brother of BYU.

    Was so in the 1980s and 1990s and by the results of this poll, is still today.

    I feel for you Ute fans. You are in the Pac 12 for crying out loud. Where is your pride?

  • PACute_ Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 28, 2013 1:31 p.m.

    It's not even debatable; beating BYU is always Utah's number one goal - Utah fans citing Utah's record versus BYU more than any other accomplishment is proof of that.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 28, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    I suppose that really depends on which bowl game. I'd rather beat the Indy-WACers and finish without a bowl game than lose to them and wind up in the New Mexico Bowl. On the other hand, I'd rather lose to the Indy-WACers, but see us play in the Rose. I suppose if our bowl opponent would have been a mid-major anyway, then we might as well beat little brother. It's what's expected.