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Published: Thursday, May 23 2013 12:15 p.m. MDT

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2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Finally some people on the left are pulling their heads out of the sand.

It seems to me that MOST administrations when they have been in awhile and they start getting cocky... could use a little scruteny by the public and the media. The Bush Administration went through the same thing. And there were hard core Republicans that stood by him through thick and thin regardless (but only after the fact can admit that he got it wrong on a lot of stuff). I hope liberals can be more open minded than Conservatives were during the Bush years.

One of a Few
Layton, UT

What makes me most happy is the conservative gestapo is finally coming to terms with the crook that was President Nixon. Really, if that is all he achieves in his second term, that admission alone is worth the price of participation. Obviously, it will be many score years from now before they wake up to the fact the system is operating as it should under the current POTUS - wrong doing uncovered, wrong doing investigated, wrong doing resolved.

Mark B
Eureka, CA

The post above assumes that mistakes of the Obama administration (and it's no surprise to admit that each administration makes them) are on the same magnitude as GWB. But for the life of me, I can't visualize anything more serious than lying the nation into a useless war, and I choose the word "lying" purposely. If you prefer the term "bungled", that's OK.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

I've no doubt that these events, and the level of involvement of high level administration personnel in them, are hugely overblown, for cheap political gain only. Nonetheless, it is disappointing that they have gone on in any form. That having been said, these are by no means the kind of things that are going to make me even remotely consider the party of guns, homophobia, religion, cheney, palin and bachmann.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Hutterite
I don't think changing parties is required. The lesson I learned is... what we all need to do is at least SEE the faults in our own party and WHATEVER administration is leading our country, and work to fix those flaws, instead of scrambling to hide them, ignore them, or spin them.

That people on the Left now feel enabled to even SEE some of the flaws in the way Obama has been running the country is encouraging. That people can now admit the mistakes Bush made... is also encouraging. Sometimes what we need to grow is a little failure to teach us a lesson or two. The Obama administration is going through that now. I just hope they learn something from it. IF they do... we'll all be better off, because it looks like Democrats and people like Obama and his Justice Dpt Head and his IRS Chief are going to be leading this country for the forseeable future. So the more they learn and improve the better. Lesson to be learned is... Nobody's perfect.

The Right has already been humbled. It's about time the Left got caught in a few mistakes.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Haha.

Too funny too funny. Have you seen the polls? Obama is still very popular. In fact, Gallup shows that it is up 1 percent more than last week.

The bottom line? "It's the economy stupid!"

It is recovering and right now repubs want to take the focus off of that.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

"The Right has already been humbled. It's about time the Left got caught in a few mistakes."

So what changes has the right made since they were humbled? Have they tried to enlarge their tent? Have they changed their views? Have they adjusted their policies?

Or have they become even more entrenched in their failed policies and opinions?

Remember, humility without repentance aka a change of heart, really isn't repentance at all.

The right is like Korihor from the Book of Mormon. They aren't sorry that they sinned. They are sorry that they were caught. The right isn't sorry that they aren't popular because of their unpopular views. They are sorry because somebody else in the White House.

Which is why the right is so unfit to lead. To Govern!

All they desire is power. They don't care about America. They don't care about us, the middle class. All they care about is power and rewarding their big rich base.

HS Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

Maverick
U trying to agitate the masses? Hardly think, BO is on a roll and will be put in Clinton's category. He just looks good standing next to Bush. It's not like Hillary is going to have a tough act to follow.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Those who have been shouting Obama's praises now see him as he really is. They see the party that he belongs to as it really is. They see his plan and his agenda as it really is.

Now, the question that they must ask themselves is whether they can morally support Obama, his Administration and his planned agenda, given their abuses of Americans, or whether their ideals and their integrity forbid them from following a "leader" who had used the power of his office to persecute American citizens.

Some will follow Obama no matter where he goes, but those who believe that Americans deserve honesty and integrity from their President should have no qualms about letting Obama and his administration receive the full consequence of what he and his administration deserves.

Even now, he is telling the world that he has the right to use drones to kill anyone that he deems to be an enemy. That alone should cause everyone to re-evaluate their relationship to Obama and to what he wants to "change".

Hemlock
Salt Lake City, UT

Denial of the Obama administration's misdeeds is a sad response. But then lemmings aren't known for independent thinking.

Mark B
Eureka, CA

Oh, give it a rest, Mike. These endless attempts to claim the high moral ground in favor of anyone wearing an (R) get pretty old. If your guy had been elected, we'd have ground troops in Iran right now, and we'd be looking for ways to send even more of them to Syria. But war costs money, so instead of what we actually have, a declining deficit, it would be climbing out of sight. Of course, you would ignore it, going on about "honesty and integrity" as if they have been GOP properties since Lincoln.

Hamath
Omaha, NE

@ all

None of these political ramblings are going to matter much in the coming years. We are wallowing in debt. It is just a matter of time before we become irrelevant. Germany is the lynch pin that is failing fast. When it falls, Europe will too and we won't be far behind.

I was glad to see Obama elected because I think he has the best chance of lowering the debt. Mostly because it would be so unexpected... just like immigration (Reagan), welfare reform (Clinton), and gov't lead bailouts (Bush), when the president strongly supports the other party's agenda item, it passes. Of course, Obama doing this isn't much of a chance. Both parties have shown unbelievable ineptitude at leading for years now. But now that the economy is recovering they still aren't taking measures... can't ruin the burgeoning economy they say. If not now... when? probably never, until it's too late. It's just simple math but we can't seem to get it. Long live Simpson-Bowles!

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

"Those who have been shouting Obama's praises now see him as he really is". Are you kidding? An article written by an arch conservative on a conservative blog recommend by an intern from Snow college that sites two liberal columnists who have "shown concern" over some policies becomes "Those who have been shouting Obama's praises now see him as he really is".

Question, how many conservative bloggers ever showed concern for the policies of GWB? So maybe liberals aren't as blind as many of you pretend. We just disagree with you, but are perfectly willing to look at ourselves.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@The Real Maverick
The RCP average of polls finds him down about one and a half points (from +2.5 approval-disapproval to +1.1), so there is some slight decline but considering most polling trends from 2012 anytime something happened, it's probably temporary. If not, well... he was floating around -2 for most of 2012 anyway.

@Mike Richards
"Those who have been shouting Obama's praises now see him as he really is. "

The Benghazi thing isn't scandalous. The IRS matter was done by lower level officials. The AP thing is concerning but that expansion of power was done under Bush and I've already known that the Obama administration, much to my annoyance, continued with it, plus the decisions were made in the Justice Department, not by Obama.

Why do you all want Obama to be heavily involved in the IRS and Justice Department anyway? (Other than the ability to pin something on him). After all those are two of the most important agencies/departments in the gov't to keep very independently minded.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Hamath
"We are wallowing in debt. "

The deficit is projected to be less than 650 billion this year. This is the fastest rate of deficit reduction since at least the late 40s after WWII with the deficit cut in half in 3 years.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Sounds like I spoke too soon. Obviously there are still SOME people out there who still can't see it, deny it, or just spinning it.

Oh well... there's always those out there (on both sides). According to atl134 there's not even a problem. All these are non-scandals, or at least don't tuch the great Obama, just low level officials (and a few departement heads), and it's just our intelegence agencies, the DOJ, and the IRS... so who cares if they get out of line. As long as the great Obama can claim he didn't know... who cares?

Hamath
Omaha, NE

@ atl134

Great! Because the economy is doing better. But it's still a deficit, which means the debt will grow yet again, by billions. And the gov't needs to take measures themselves to reduce it, not just get lucky when the tax receipts do better one year than another.

There You Go Again
Saint George, UT

Freeman,

I enjoyed your previous efforts to present information without driving a political nail through the heads of your readers.

However, I see your managers, at the DN, have educated you regarding the editorial policy of the DN usually imposed on all material.

One suggestion on the headline...

Liberals are not shocked by claims made by Conservative ideologues regarding the Obama administration.

Thanks.

2 bits
Cottonwood Heights, UT

atl134 can't even admit that we have a DEBT problem!! He's REALLY been drinking the coolaid.

I suspect nothing the administration does will not be denied first, if that doesn't work spinning it in a way that they don't have to take responsibility (at least nobody above "low level aids", if that doesn't work... blame it on Bush.

This is a Democrat coolaid_drinkers vision of what's going on today in Washington...
-What Debt problem...
-The Benghazi thing isn't scandalous...
-The IRS matter was done by lower level officials...
-The AP thing is concerning but that expansion of power was done under Bush...
-The decisions were made in the Justice Department, not by Obama...

Nothing but spin, deflect, deny, blame it on Bush... Is he related to Obama?

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@2 bits
"atl134 can't even admit that we have a DEBT problem!! "

I just said the deficit projection was over 600 billion for this year. I merely pointed out that, contrary to conservative belief, we've made progress since the 640 billion dollar deficit projection for this year is much much lower than the trillion plus deficits the previous years. Instead of mocking the list of points I made, maybe you should disprove ANY of them.

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