Organized corporate religion is one of man's worst inventions.
I fear that religion will be the end of us all through self fulfilled
@atl134 – “A recent poll found that a large percentage of Muslims in
various nations answered yes to a question that was along the lines of "are
suicide bombings ever acceptable".”There have been a
number of polls like this over the last decade and they are actually quite
scary. First, some Muslim countries won’t even allow the
polling, so the data is skewed right out of the gate (i.e., the reality is
likely even worse than the polls suggest).Check out the Pew Study
done in 2008, in particular the answers to questions like “is it justified
to kill those who insult Islam” or “will killing infidels or being a
martyr for the faith get you to heaven?” When you map this
mindset onto nations seeking nuclear weapons… well, all I can say is that
it chills my spine in a way the cold war never did.
It will be very interesting to see how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints is received by Muslims as The Church continues to grow and grow.
@Brave Sir RobinThere are a lot of different sects of Islam, much like
there are a lot of Christian denominations. @Shane333"Whether they be Sunni Islamists, or Shia Islamists, or Wahabi Islamists,
or any other Islamists, they all agree on the Islamic doctrine that all mankind
should become subject to Islam. "I'm pretty sure most
Christian denominations believe that one of the things we should be doing is
spreading the Gospel to the whole world. @Tyler DGood faith
means little to people who lost a family member due to a mistake or being in the
wrong place at the wrong time. A recent poll found that a large
percentage of Muslims in various nations answered yes to a question that was
along the lines of "are suicide bombings ever acceptable". Now the
detail we don't know is... how many of them are thinking suicide bombings
of civilians are acceptable vs how many are thinking only something like a
tactical suicide bombing of some enemy's military units are acceptable
(like the kamikaze attacks in WWII)? The former is support of terrorism but the
latter is more like the drone strike matter.
Two points:1. Those Muslims who don't believe Islam justifies
violence have a responsibility to re-educate those who do. Nobody else can do
it for them.2. The idea of "self-radicalization" is a crock.
Somebody wrote the articles and created the websites that were the sources of
those people's radicalization.
@atl134Whether they be Sunni Islamists, or Shia Islamists, or Wahabi
Islamists, or any other Islamists, they all agree on the Islamic doctrine that
all mankind should become subject to Islam. Doesn't take a unified central
authority for that mindset to exist.
@atl134 – “Define terroristic violence?”Please be
careful to not paint with such a broad brush that words simply lose all meaning.
To even begin to equate a good faith drone strike (good faith meaning despite
the occasional collateral damage, your intent is to kill a bad guy) with blowing
up random people at a public event is way beyond apples-and-orange. It is no doubt a definition of degrees, but I would say it starts with a
mindset that believes killing in defense of the faith is OK, given how big an
umbrella that is (e.g., a cartoonist, an author, etc.). This is
certainly a conundrum for western society – how 21st century liberty and
pluralism can co-exist with a value system straight out of the Old Testament,
where killing your neighbor for any number of theocratic crimes is fully
sanctioned and even commanded. Not sure what the answers are, but I
don’t think burying our heads in the sands of blanket tolerance and
multi-culturalism is the way to go.
Strider and Shane get it, which is why Shock and Awe never works on the radical
heart. American military will continue to suffer loss until the generals are
trained in evangelism. Until soldiers pass out pamphlets and propaganda with
their Uzis, you might as well find another profession in Islamic countries.Protection of innocents/ and American assets will always require force.
But until the missionary can survive the mercenary, radical Islam will win every
time. Afghanistan being prime evidentiary.If the radical enemy
lives amongst Americans now, how about engaging them on a personal level? It
can only help possibly sway another bombing...
@atl134The fallacy in your first point is that Christianity is not a
religion. Christianity is a word that describes a collection of a large number
of religions that believe in Jesus Christ, almost all of which do have a
centralized authority and leadership. And the difference is not a matter of
semantics - if Baptists were going around committing acts of terrorism, they
(and not Christians in general) would be blamed.Strider's point
about Islam and its lack of a centralized governing authority is spot on, and
your apples-to-oranges comparison between Islam and Christianity does not change
@Strider303"The reality is that Islam has no central core that speaks
for the religion, therefore each local group is autonomous and can preach what
ever doctrine the leader(s) pull from the Koran. "It's not
much different than Christianity in that regard. "There is a
history of violence associated with Islam. "As there is with
Christianity (consider all the Catholic vs Protestant wars in Europe over the
centuries). @Hemlock"If statistics are correct, there are
2.75 million Muslims in the US and 10% approve of terroristic violence then
there are 275,000 potential Muslim terrorists in the US."Define
terroristic violence? No seriously, define it, because way more than 10% of
Americans support drone strikes, and a lot of people in those nations we use
drones on (like Yemen) consider that terrorism.@Shane333"By Islamic standards, peace only comes through submission, either as a
Muslim member, or as a dhimmī. A dhimmī is a non-muslim to surrenders
to Islamic authority and pays an excise tax for being non-Muslim."So, you agree with the idea that Islam doesn't have much of a central
authority, and then you suggest this applies to 1.5 billion people?
Maybe the problem with confusing moderate Islam and Islamic terrorism is that
the bad guys get the press and the good guys do not. Compounding the problem is
the seemingly always-on-TV Saudi Arabian dictatorship and a lack of women's
and religious minority rights in that country. What comes to mind when you think
of Islam? Of course it is going to be the big news makers not the average Muslim
who goes about his/her business peacefully.
Strider303 is correct, in that there is no central authority to Islam and each
local group is autonomous. So one Islamic group might be peaceful, while
another is extremist, and neither has any authority to tell the other group that
it is wrong.Secondly, there has been a lot of misleading
"politically correct" statements about Islam. Some have falsely stated
that, "Islam is peace." The correct translation of "Islam"
isn't peace, but rather "submission". By Islamic standards, peace
only comes through submission, either as a Muslim member, or as a dhimmī.
A dhimmī is a non-muslim to surrenders to Islamic authority and pays an
excise tax for being non-Muslim.
@UtahVET1Excellent posts… thanks for the info.No
doubt many Muslims are sincere in the efforts to promote a religion of peace,
but their sacred books (Koran and Hadith) contain scores of totalitarian and
violent prescriptions. We need only look at these books and their history to
understand the true aims… and those aims do not appear to be peaceful
co-existence and certainly not democracy and pluralism, as Europe is beginning
to recognize.I think we ignore these facts at our peril…
If statistics are correct, there are 2.75 million Muslims in the US and 10%
approve of terroristic violence then there are 275,000 potential Muslim
terrorists in the US. The effort to educate away from jihadist terror is
laudable, but the proof is in the results. When Wahabism is abandoned, the right
to kill those who convert away from Islam is denounced, women are given equal
legal status, sharia law is subservient to the Constitution, honor killings are
condemned and the world is no longer theologically divided into the House of War
and the House of Islam, citizens will not have prejudice regarding Muslims.
Can you imagine if, instead of the Book of Mormon satire on Broadway, it was the
Koran satire. Holy Smokes...it would have been carnage.
I don't think you have to remind the Jewish people and nation of the
nationalism of Germany's expansion to Spain, Austria, Poland, Russian, and
even to the middle East. They had to fight those entities after WWII to get
their own nation that had been taken from them. They lost over 6 million of
their own in that process and they tried to be passive in that process as
"first and second amendment" equivalent rights were withdrawn from them
in the 1930s and 1940s to where the Jewish people were not able to defend
themselves and families. It is sort of like the Missouri extermination order in
the 1830s that caused a people to move to Illinois where they had sympathy from
the people in Quincy. America is a nation of freedom but doesn't mean it
is exempt from government initiatives to thwart that freedom, even through
coercion and violence. Israel fights everyday for their freedoms against a
world that is not supportive. However, a lot of those relatives in our country
heavily supported for a second term a man who hadn't given or even been to
Israel as President. Money influences and wins votes. Not integrity.
Interesting post Utah Vet1. I would like to know more.
In May 1991, MB issued to its ideological allies an explanatory memorandum on
"the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America." Asserting
that the Brotherhood's mission was to establish "an effective and ...
stable Islamic Movement" on the continent, this document outlined a
"Civilization-Jihadist Process" for achieving that objective. It stated
that Muslims "must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand
Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and
'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands ... so that ...
God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions."
Through stealth jihad, the Brotherhood would seek to impose Islamic values and
customs on the West in piecemeal fashion -- gradually, incrementally gaining
ever-greater influence over the culture. The memorandum listed some 29
likeminded "organizations of our friends" which sought to realize the
same goal. These included:
MB was established in accordance with al-Banna’s proclamation that Islam
should be “given hegemony over all matters of life.” Toward that
end, the Brotherhood seeks to establish an Islamic caliphate, or kingdom --
first spanning all of the present-day Muslim world, and eventually the entire
globe. The organization further aspires to dismantle all non-Islamic governments
wherever they currently exist, and to make Islamic Law (Shari’a) the sole
basis of jurisprudence everywhere on earth. This purpose is encapsulated in the
Brotherhood’s militant credo: “God is our objective, the Koran is
our Constitution, the Prophet is our leader, struggle [jihad] is our way, and
death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations.”
Don't forget the Muslim BrotherHood Founded in 1928 by the Egyptian
schoolteacher/activist Hasan al-Banna (a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and the
Nazis), they joined with the Nazis when Kitler established them. The Muslim
Brotherhood (MB) -- a Sunni entity -- is one of the oldest, largest and most
influential Islamist organizations in the world. While Egypt historically has
been the center of the Brotherhood’s operations, the group today is active
in more than 70 countries (some estimates range as high as 100+). Islam expert
Robert Spencer has called MB "the parent organization of Hamas and al
Qaeda." In 2003, Richard Clarke – the chief counterterrorism advisor
on the U.S. National Security Council during both the Bill Clinton and George W.
Bush administrations – told a Senate committee that Hamas, al Qaeda, and
Palestinian Islamic Jihad were all "descendants of the membership and
ideology of the Muslim Brothers."
far and wide we hear "Islam is a religion of peace." There are three
main reasons that phrase is repeated so often. One is because of the religious
duty of Islamists to deceive unbelievers. And the other is that Islamists have
an entirely different interpretation of the the phrase "religion of
peace" than the one that naturally occurs to people in free countries.And the third is that ignorant westerners, trying to be sensitive and
multicultural, say Islam is a religion of peace because it is the politically
correct thing to say. They are unwittingly helping the Islamists keep westerners
in the dark while the Islamists advance their purposes (the overthrow of western
governments in Europe and the USA).
"Self-Radicalization" of Americans in particular, cannot excuse Islam of
responsibility because "The Army of One" theory conforms to radical
Muslim principles that promote this type of terrorism as it eliminates the
threat of informants. Lone Muslim terrorists operate everywhere in the world
espousing extremist views and calling for exacting revenge for injustices
committed against Muslims. The troubling irony is that in the Middle East
war-torn areas, Muslim suicide bombers bomb their own mosques and people as
well. American mainstream media (MSM)whitewash all the Boston Marathon type
terrorism in America as due to home-grown Self-Radicalized terrorists; even
attributing the Fort Hood shooting assassinations of fellow soldiers by an
Islamic American military officer to "Workplace Violence." MSM is either
in total denial or on the wrong side of patriotism.
The reality is that Islam has no central core that speaks for the religion,
therefore each local group is autonomous and can preach what ever doctrine the
leader(s) pull from the Koran. It is especially true in countries where the
majority are illiterate and depend upon the imam to interpret the Koran.There is a history of violence associated with Islam. As I have read
about Islam, subjection of those who do not believe to Islam is part of the
basic doctrine: convert, or pay a tax or be killed. I think the
frustration of Muslims may arise from seeing the the Western world's
economic state while Islamic nations are somewhere between the 7th and 12th
century culture wise, economically and socially. Couple that with the real
possibility that leaving the faith can get you killed by family members can lead
to severe depression.I am of the opinion that Islam will have a hard
time assimilating into Western life, unless there is fundamental change in how
its adherents behave. They, as a group, do not play nice with others and so far
have shown a propensity to violence when they do not get their way.
Religion is only what you do religiously. The expatiation's of what you do
should be the same for every one. I can't repeat the 10 Commandments, nor
do I know the all the laws of the land. All I can do is not lie cheat or steel
and hope every one is the same on that exception, But the Golden rule is who has
the gold makes the rules. It's about politics, since their who has the