After reading the several of these comments I'm reminded of one thing...
the late Rodney Dangerfield.The typical Ute "fan" just
epitomizes his famous line... "I get no respect"You Ute fans
come off as whiny, bitter and jealous everytime the topic comes up... everytime.
On the "inside" and nothing but a bottom feeder; no National
Championships, no Heisman Trophies, and only 5 lifetime AP Top 25 finishes.LOL!
mussingaroundRight. National Champion and STILL on the outside banging on
the door to get in. Now, that's respect. lol!
navelvet"the most laughable "national champion" in the
history of college football?"No that would be Utah 2008 who
threw themselves a parade for finishing 2nd and 4th.
TroyTown:Seriously? A "USC" fan DEFENDING the most
laughable "national champion" in the history of college football?Nope. I don't think so. It's well past time for you to
finally admit that you're not really a "Trojan", but rather an uber
embarrassed Indy-WACer. You really weren't fooling anyone anyway.
GO_COUGARS!In the spirit of brotherhood, why don't you first
stop pretending that you're anything other than a jealous BYU hater.1) BYU won the 1984 National Championship in exactly the same way as
every AP national champion since 1936, by convincing the majority of
sportswriters and coaches nationwide that BYU was more deserving of being
National Champions than any other team.2) Only a few jealous
detractors like you laugh at it, because there's nothing ridiculous about
Why does there need to be so much hostility?In a spirit of
brotherhood, let's all just come together and agree on two things:1) BYU WAS in fact awarded the 84 championship. They have the hardware to
prove it.2) Everyone outside of Provo will always laugh at it,
because it's ridiculous.
GO_COUGARS!If you're going to misquote someone, you should at
least try to spell their name correctly.It's "Robbie
BOSCO"BYU fans don't need to defend anything; they just
feel inclined to help our misguided little brothers see the light.
Two For FlinchingFor once we agree, to a degree.The
polls have their place, but, the first poll shouldn't be taken until
mid-October to give the pollsters a chance to separate the contenders from the
pretenders.It's ridiculous that the polls establish an early
pecking order so that a higher-ranked team has to lose in order for a
lower-ranked team to move up.
GO_COUGARS!"If strength of schedule had mattered as much in
1984, BYU would not have been voted the national champions." -Sports
IllustratedSports Illustrated is one of the media groups that
selected BYU as the 1984 National Champion.Just because some hack
journalist writing for Sports Illustrated has a different opinion 30 years later
doesn't change that fact that BYU was selected National Champion by every
major selecting organization of the day, unlike our jealous little friends on
the hill, who finished a distant 2nd and 4th in their best season ever.Athlon Magazine recently recognized BYU 1979-1985 era as one the Top 25
All-Time Greatest Football Dynasties during the AP Era.Utah
wasn't even mentioned in the also rans.LOL at the frantic and
emotional spin from the kids on the hill!
Deep Blue's numbers are correct. However they clearly define the problem
with polls (especially pre-season polls). It shouldn't matter what a team
did last season, or three years ago. They should only be ranked on what is
happening during the current season.
I love that the trolls on this thread (BYU fans) are here on an article that has
nothing to do with them. Yet claim they are here because of a troll (Chris B),
who isnt a real Utah fan by any standard. Y fans, get a grip will you. You won
a National Championship 29 years ago, congrats.
"If strength of schedule had mattered as much in 1984, BYU would not have
been voted the national champions." -Sports Illustrated"By
today's standards, there's no question we wouldn't have been
number 1. There would have been four teams higher than us in the polls."-ROBBIE BOSCOEBYU was barely squeaking past teams on the third
worst schedule in the country. They are the only team to be voted #1 without
ever beating a single good team, and they played the worst bowl opponent a
"champ" has ever faced. It was a joke.This is why byu
"fans" will always feel a need to come onto Ute threads and defend their
u25"Y fans are delusional and its an embarrassment to an
organization saying head to head doesnt matter"Y fans never said
head-to-head doesn't matter; Y fans said head-to-head isn't the only
criteria for determining which team is better.If you answered these
questions honestly, then you know that to be true:Which team was
better in 2003, Texas A&M(4-8) or Utah(10-2)?Which team was
better in 2005, No Carolina(5-6) or Utah(7-5)?Which team was better
in 2006, UNLV(2-10) or Utah(8-5)?Which team was better in 2011,
Colorado(3-10) or Utah(8-5)?Which team was better in 2012, BYU(8-5)
or Utah St(11-2)?It's obvious to any objective observer that
overall records and season-ending rankings carry much more weight than
individual head-to-head games.
AZUTE1LOL at your selective memory.At 7:27 in the 3rd Q,
BYU had the ball at Utah's 25 and was driving to tie or take the lead when
an errant snap led to Mo Lee's scoop and score. Six minutes later, an
18-yard punt return and 39-yard scoring bomb gave Utah a brief 7-24 lead.2:14 later, BYU completed a 75-yard drive to cut Utah's lead to
14-24. After a couple of possession exchanges, BYU drove to
Utah's 39, before punting to pin the Utes at their own 11. After stuffing
the Utes on 4th down, BYU took possession at Utah's 20 and quickly scored
to cut Utah's lead to 21-24 with 3:39 left in the game.After
forcing another punt, BYU took possession at their own 8 with 1:11 left. BYU
drove to the Utah 19, where BYU's 36-yard FG attempt bounced off the left
upright allowing the Utes to escape with a narrow 3-point win.Utah's longest scoring drive was only 39 yards.First DownsBYU 25Utah 14RushingBYU 106Utah 49PassingBYU 206Utah 196TotalBYU 312Utah 245
AZUTE1Utah fans are always "ripe full" of whiny excuses why
Utah has never even come close to matching BYU's national
accomplishments.Naval VetThe exact same pollsters who
ranked OSU #18/#19, TCU #7/#7, BYU #25/#21, and Alabama #6/#6...ranked 2008 Utah #2/#4.The exact same pollsters who ranked
Washington #2/#2, Florida #3/#6, Nebraska #4/#3, and Oklahoma #6/#6...ranked 1984 BYU #1/#1Live with it!!!
I still question why some BYU fans on this board appear so obsessed with the
opinions of Utah fans.So far Snack Pac is the only one who has
answered the question. Really, BYU fans who continue to comment on here, I
would like to know why you are so concerned with the opinions of Utah fans, and
the goings on of the Utah sports programs.So please, enlighten me.
Utefanz:"Utah beat three top 25 teams, BYU, TCU, and
Alabama."Correction: Utah beat FOUR Top-25 teams. You forgot
about #18 Oregon St.
Please. UTAH had more than a handful of key-starters out early in the season,
including both of our starting safeties, JWIV, etc.Our game last
year was hardly a close game in its truest sense....Up 24-7 in the 4th quarter
before a series of unforced mental-errors on our part, enabling 1 byu TD
[Punt-Team] and extending their drive in order to produce the freak-show at its
conclusion [w/our two FR ALL-America safties sitting the game out, byu rec is
vacuously allowed behind them, which our starters would never have allowed to
happen]....It was only justice that the DOINK ended the game.I still
chuckle over Star forcing the high-snap, which ML turned into a TD, merely by
lining-up over center and causing the byu center to panic out of fear and botch
it....Now that's a perfect illustration of a forced-error.
y fans are delusional and its an embarrassment to an organization saying head to
head doesnt matter, If your team is not capeable of beating another team. Utah
has domininated this series for the last decade. Utah would be 10-0 if not for 3
meraculous plays at the end in those losses.
That Era back then was ripe full of weak schedules, annually....LOLNah, 3 straight victories for us, 4 of 5, 8 of 11 and the overall record by
AZUTE1I seem to recall BYU's starting QB Riley Nelson suffering
a cracked spine against Weber St in the 2nd game of the season, but that
couldn't possibly have affected the outcome of BYU's close road losses
at Utah(by 3), at #16 Boise State(by 1), at #3 Notre Dame(by 3), or at #21 San
Jose St(by 6), now could it?
AZUTE1It should be noted that the Utes are always full of whiny
excuses every time the Utes lose or the Cougars win.
Athlon Magazine recently named BYU's 1979 through 1985 era as one of College Football's Top 25 Greatest Dynasties of the AP Era25. BYU Cougars (1979-85): 77-12LaVell Edward’s high-flying,
revolutionary offense rolled through opponents until the pollsters finally
awarded BYU with the 1984 national championship.1979 11-1 #13/#12
WAC champion1980 12-1 #12/#12 WAC champion1981 11-2 #13/#11 WAC
champion1982 8-4 unranked WAC champion1983 11-1 #7/#7 WAC
champion1984 13-0 #1/#1 WAC champion, National champion1985 11-3
#16/#17 WAC championTotal 77-12(87%) 7 straight conference
championships, 1 national championship
It should be noted byu played ND minus their QB and UTAH played against USC
w/Carson Palmer, GT did not and had roughly 1 month to prepare for USC, minus
CP.Also, byu has gotten USU the last two years at home....We all
know what happened during their previous visit up there to Logan.
DeepBlueNice summary!Doubtful it will change any of the
biased opinions on the hill, but maybe they'll gain a smidgen of
understanding of how a WAC team with a mediocre schedule could earn enough
respect from all five national selecting organizations to be selected the
Consensus 1984 National Champion.
lanius"Did a Coug fan on the previous page really say that
"head to head results are overrated?"Which team was better
in 2003, Texas A&M(4-8) or Utah(10-2)?Which team was better in
2005, No Carolina(5-6) or Utah(7-5)?Which team was better in 2006,
UNLV(2-10) or Utah(8-5)?Which team was better in 2011,
Colorado(3-10) or Utah(8-5)?Which team was better in 2012, BYU(8-5)
or Utah St(11-2)?Answer each question honestly and you'll have
your answer why head-to-head results are often over-rated in determining which
team is better.
Did a coug fan on the previous page really say that "head to head results
@goredWhat case are you closing? Is it the case that BYU was found
to be worthy and utah was found to be lacking by pretty much the exact same
groups of people? In that case I agree with you. Thanks for your honesty.
DeepBlueStreet cred!Love it!
Correction, it was Indiana that was ranked #19/#16 in 1979 and SMU that was
ranked #20/#20 in 1980.
An "off" year in 1982, in which BYU finish 8-4 and unranked, was
highlighted by a close 14-17 road loss to Hershel Walker's #4/#4
Georgia(11-1) team.BYU started 1983 with a close 36-40 loss at
Baylor(7-4-1), before reeling off 11 straight wins, including road wins over
#13/#15 Air Force(10-2) and #17/#13 UCLA(7-4-1), and a Holiday Bowl over
Missouri in which Steve Young CAUGHT the winning TD. BYU finished the season
11-1 ranked #7/#7, setting up BYU's 1984 National Championship season.From 1979 to 1983, BYU was 53-9(86%), with FOUR Top 12 Finishes.1979 11-1 #13/#121980 12-1 #12/#121981 11-2 #13/#111982 8-4 unranked1983 11-1 #7/#7It's easy to see why
the pollsters were willing to give BYU 1984 the benefit of the doubt for playing
a less than stellar schedule in 1984.BYU had already established
their street cred and finished 1984 on a 24-game winning streak, completing the
FIFTH Top 12 finish in six years.
The concept that our from friends on the hill don't seem to understand is
that college football history isn't created in a season-by-season bubble.
National Championship and Heisman Trophy seasons are seldom the result of one
exceptional season. Teams and players usually have to develop some "street
cred" in previous seasons, before the national media will take them
seriously.BYU's 1984 National Championship really began on
September 8, 1979 when Marc Wilson, playing three days after an appendectomy,
led BYU to an 18-17 win at Texas A&M. BYU's quest for an undefeated
season came up just inches short when BYU's chip shot FG attempt hit the
upright on the final play of the game and BYU lost to Indiana(8-4) 37-38. BYU
finished the season 11-1 ranked #19/#16.In 1980, BYU opened the
season with a disappointing 21-25 loss at New Mexico, then reeled off 12
straight wins, culminating in Miracle Bowl win over the famed Pony Express. BYU
finished the season 12-1 ranked #20/#20.BYU beat Washington
St(8-3-1) in the 1981 Holiday Bowl to finish the season 11-2 ranked #13/#11.(continued)
UtefanzBYU 1984 beat Air Force(8-4) which finished #24 in the Final
AP Poll; although not "technically" ranked because the AP Poll only
included the Top 20 in 1984, Air Force did finish in the top 25 teams in the
Final AP poll.Using "BCS rules" for 2008 is a cop out. USC
won the AP National Championship in 2003 WITHOUT playing in the BCS championship
game.USC and BYU both won AP National Championships in 2003 and 1984
under the exact same criteria - by being voted #1 in the Final AP Poll by a
nation-wide panel of sportswriters.---------Naval VetLogic would suggest that if BYU was capable of beating #16/#17 Utah St.,
and only losing at #4/#3 Notre Dame by 3, only losing at #18/#14 Boise St. by 1,
and only losing at #21/#21 San Jose St. by 6, that the Cougars could have beaten
any and likely most of the 9 unranked teams on Utah's schedule.
As too which team is better, BYU has had better records than Utah for the past
two seasons. However it has been against the weakest opponets that Utah would
have beaten aswell. If record was all that matter Utah would have been NC in
2008 and teams from the SEC would be rank lower than they are. The polls are
peoples opinions not based in fact.Utah is a better team than BYU.
With a quaterback that has no business in Div-1 football, and a new
inexperienced OC Utah beat BYU and the end was closer than the game really was.
With an actual quaterback and OC we demolished you in your own home. Yes you
have had a better record, but you are not playing USC, UCLA, ect every week.
You have two maybe three games that are difficult and then you have the rest
with bottom dwellars. If any team deserves to be the best in the state it is
USU. They were better than both BYU and Utah last year.
I am not going to deligitamize BYU's NC. They got it. But to compare the
pre-BSC to the BSC era football is rediculous. BYU beat no one in the top 25, I
am purposely excluding Pitt as they went 3-7. Utah beat three top 25 teams, BYU,
TCU, and Alabama. I puposely excluded Michigan for the same reason I did for
Pitt. If the BSC used the same critera as they did in 1984, Utah has a NC. Utah
didn't have a shot to win because of what bowl game they played due to
rule. They could not jusmp above #2 in the final polls. And no the Coaches poll
doesn't choose the NC in the BSC era. The NC game does. So if you are
going to compare apples to apples, you have to use BYU's 1984 season to
Utah's 2008 season and Utah had a way better resume than BYU.
Naval VetLOL at your spin.BYU destroyed Georgia Tech
(41-17) on the road, a team that easily handled USC (21-7) in the Sun Bowl, and
as you're well aware, USC beat Utah (31-21) on Utah's home turf.If Utah had played BYU's schedule, the Utes would still have lost
at least 7 games - to Utah State, Oregon State, Boise State, Notre Dame, Georgia
Tech, San Jose State, and San Diego State - and that's assuming Utah
qualified for a bowl by beating BYU in LES. And let's not forget the
possibility of Utah losing to a team like NM St, since the Utes have
demonstrated a propensity for being able to lose to ANYBODY - see 10-loss UNLV
and 10-loss Colorado.Sagarin's final rankings say it all.BYU #26Utah #61Try as U might, the PACy WACers just
aren't as good as their big brother.The final rankings prove
"The environment at Utah is primed to suit any person whether they’re
Caucasian, African-American or Polynesian, it doesn’t matter."So true!! Go UTES!
ThleteNo need to twist numbers to prove anything; facts are facts.
One game does not a season make. And winning two out of three of games on the
final play of the game doesn't prove anything.Head-to-head wins
are over-rated. In basketball, it's not uncommon for teams to
split a home-and-home series. The only reason it doesn't happen more in
football is because teams seldom play each other twice in the same season.That's why final records and final rankings are much more reliable
measuring sticks in determining which team is better in a given season. Even
Utah fans recognize this, EXCEPT when it comes to comparing Utah to BYU.If Utah finishes this coming season 11-1 and BYU finishes 1-11, but BYU
beats Utah head-to-head, there's absolutely no way Utah fans would say that
BYU was a better team than Utah.You know it; and we know it. So you can stop with the silly argument that one game out of twelve
offers any definitive proof concerning which team is better in any particular
SportsFan:"BYU beat Utah State, a team that Utah couldn't
beat, so it would logically follow that BYU would do better against Utah's
schedule than Utah did."Actually, it would logically follow that
the Indy-WACers would have done WORSE. Note:Utah went 2-2 vs. Wash.
St, Ore. St, Utah St, and our little brother down in Provostan. Similarly,
little brother went 2-2 vs. Wash. St, Ore. St, Utah St, and big brother on the
Hill. However, Utah beat WSU by more points, lost to OSU by fewer, and the won
head-to-head matchup. All little brother did was beat a team at home that the
Utes lost to -- in OT -- on the road.This body of work supports that
between our two programs, Utah was the better team. And as the better team,
that suggests you would have done WORSE than 5-7 had you played the same
"I mean, it's been repeated over and over here that BYU played a very
average schedule in 1984"pot and kettle GoRedUtah
fans brag incessantly about their first "BCS busting team", yet who did
Utah beat in 2004 that made the Utes BCS worthy?Who did Utah beat
during the regular season that was as good as the #24 Air Force(8-4) team that
BYU in 1984?Utah beat three regular season opponents with winning
records in 2004, none with better than a 7-5 record.
@DeepBlue and other silly Y fans.That's some fancy stat dancing
that you are doing to ignore the head-to-head results of your team against Utah
lately. Seems so convincing when you twist your numbers to try to show why BYU
has been better than Utah recently, until whoops, you look at the actual final
scores the last 3 years. Sorry, try (and fail) again in September.
gored"Barry Switzer and Bryant Gumbel are just two of the
national figures who questioned the legitimacy of BYU's claim."BYU didn't "claim" anything. BYU was selected
1984 National Champion by FIVE major national organizations that are all wholly
separate and distinct from BYU.Except for winning and impressing the
voters in the process, BYU didn't have anything to do with the selection
process.Other schools and jealous individuals like our friends on
the hill can "claim" whatever they want to, but BYU is the only
legitimate 1984 National Champion recognized by all of the major selecting
gored"Utah went 5-7 against BCS competition, including a win
over BYU. It would logically follow that BYU would be lucky to go 4-8 if they
had played Utah's schedule."BYU beat Utah State, a team
that Utah couldn't beat, so it would logically follow that BYU would do
better against Utah's schedule than Utah did.I do find it funny
that Utah fans have had to resort to blaming their schedule for Utah's
ineptitude. Tell me, how tough, really, was that 10-loss Colorado team U lost
to, a team that hadn't won a road game in three years?
gored"since there was no BCS system in place, the powers-that-be
had to award BYU the "national championship""The
powers-that-be didn't HAVE TO award BYU anything; they were free to select
whoever they considered most deserving and the majority chose BYU."Barry Switzer and Bryant Gumbel are just two of the national figures who
questioned the legitimacy of BYU's claim."Barry Switzer had
an obvious conflict of interest and Bryant Gumbel was in a vocal, but small
minority."in 2008 Utah beat FOUR nationally ranked teams,
including three from prominent BCS conferences."And who ranked
those four nationally ranked teams? The exact same voters who placed Utah 2nd
and 4th in the final polls.As much as it pains our jealous little
brothers to admit, BYU's 1984 National Championship was every bit as
legitimate as any other national champion since 1936, when the first AP National
Champion was chosen in exactly the same way BYU was chosen.Utah
finished a distant 2nd in the AP Poll and only 4th in the Coaches Poll, the poll
used to crown the bcs champion.The case is closed, but unfortunately
for U, nothing's changed.
@ Marked it Down: You are posting negatively on a Utah story, yet you are
talking smack about my post? Oh the irony!! Just too fun to pass up! Please
go on a byU story and mock my negative postings (here's a hint: you
won't find any because I don't care about what little brother is
doing!)Thank all you trollers for entertaining us so!!! Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!!
duckhunter,You say "For what it's worth BYU was undefeated
and lost to no one. Hence the 'national championship'". So, what
you're saying is, that if team such as the 2008 Utah team is the only
undefeated team, then they should be crowned national champions? I
mean, it's been repeated over and over here that BYU played a very average
schedule in 1984 and beat a 6-6 Michigan team by 7 points. But since there was
no BCS system in place, the powers-that-be had to award BYU the "national
championship", even though they had only defeated one nationally ranked team
(Pittsburgh). Barry Switzer and Bryant Gumbel are just two of the national
figures who questioned the legitimacy of BYU's claim.However,
in 2008 Utah beat FOUR nationally ranked teams, including three from prominent
BCS conferences. Utah beat the former #1-ranked team in the country. Because
the BCS powers did not want a repeat of allowing a non-BCS team to be proclaimed
nation champions, they made sure that a BCS team would be awarded it. And,
ironically, it went to a team that beat Alabama by fewer points than Utah
navelvetFor what it's worth, Washington only beat Michigan by
two points more than BYU beat Michigan, but unlike BYU, Washington lost a game
and passed on the opportunity to play #1 BYU.The poll voters saw
Washington's cowardice and appropriately didn't reward Washington for
choosing to play a lower-ranked Oklahoma team, rather than playing the #1 team
in the country.
@navalFor what it's worth BYU was undefeated and lost to no
one. Hence the National Championship and all the accompanying hardware that you
can personally look at in BYU's jam packed display's of national
awards on campus.Interesting that they were considered worthy by
pretty much everyone that matters and utah was considered completely unworthy by
all the same people. But that's life I suppose, and reality. Utah
"fans" probably ought to learn to accept reality.
DeepBlue:"btw, 8 months after BYU beat Michigan in the Holiday
Bowl to win the 1984 National Championship, BYU destroyed Washington
31-3."BTW, 6-wks after beating UWa, you LOST to 1-10 UTEP. So
if beating the Huskies in '85 supports your claim to being the #1 team in
the nation the prior season, losing to UTEP the next month would only stand to
validate the common national opinion that you were NOT.And for what
it's worth, the '84 Huskies were 11-1, having lost only to Pac-10
Co-champ USC. They graduated the bulk of their impact players before the
'85 season. The '85 Huskies finished their regular season at 6-5, and
also lost home games to Oregon St. (3-8) and Washington St. (4-7). Beating the
'85 Huskies was not impressive. They were a completely different team that
Roger Jolly:"I heard once that this year's Cougar schedule
is 'like' a BCS schedule."Yeah, but consider the
source of who you heard that from. Betcha it was an Indy-WACer. The truth is,
even with the stepped up schedule -- the likes they've never seen before --
the only "BCS schedule" our little brother can compare themselves to is
the fledging Big [L]East, who WOULD have lost their BCS membership after this
season had the BCS system not drawn to close. And even though the BCS is dead
after this season, there will still be a divide between the "elite" and
the "mid-major" caste system. And it's already been reported that
the Big [L]East is scheduled to dwell with the MWC, C-USA, MAC, and Sun Belt
conferences in the "Group of Five". How mid-majorey.So if
the cougars' schedule is "Big [L]East"-ish (which is at least
better than the WAC-ish one they've been enjoying these past 2 seasons),
and the Big [L]East is midmajor-ish, aren't they still
"mid-majorey"?I think so.
DuckhunterStop confusing us with logic; everyone knows it's
much more prestigious to beat a ranked team, than to be ranked yourself.
Back to the article. It's great that Utah is doing so well recruiting Poly
players. It appears they feel very comfortable in SLC. Love it.
So tell me azute or gored, how is it that it matters and is legitimate if the
team utah is playing is ranked #9, or #22, or #15, yet somehow if BYU is ranked
#1 that doesn't matter and isn't legitimate? What makes all the other
teams rankings legitimate while BYU's ranking is not legitimate? The
pollsters come by the rankings the same way for everyone, they look at who they
play and what their record is and then give them a ranking based on their own
analysis.So why is it that when the pollsters say ASU is ranked
15th, or Georgia Tech is ranked 20th, or any other team is ranked, and utah
plays them it shows how good utah is because they played them, or maybe beat
them, but when all those exact same pollsters rank BYU a particular ranking it
really doesn't count, or is "illegitimate, because....? Is it because
jealous utah "fans" don't like it? Why is it that when
utah plays a "ranked" team that team is the real deal yet when bYU is
ranked they are not (unless utah played them of course)?
Seasons Ranked - BYU1974 1977 1979 1980 1981 1983 1984 1985 1986
1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1996 1997 1999 2001 2006 2007 2008 2009
2012Seasons Ranked - Utah1947 1994 1996 2003 2004 2008
2009 2010Final AP Poll - BYU SEVENTEEN times (the first in 1977)Final AP Poll - Utah FIVE times (the first in 1994)LOL!
AZUTE:"How bad was Michigan?"Well it depends on whether
you're talking an injury riddled but talented 6-6 Michigan in 1984 that
played BYU in the holiday bowl, with BYU winning the NC...OR the 3-9 Michigan in
2008 that was arguably their worst team in a half century, that Utah beat by a
mere 2 points to propel them from unranked to #17...how quickly ute fans forget.
U beat a far worse Michigan team in your so-called best year by a DUECE.
Snack PACCheck your math; how could a team as "dominant" as
the Utes claim they've been, only have ranked in the Final AP Poll FIVE
times, while the team they claim they've "dominated" has been
ranked in the Final AP Poll SEVENTEEN times?A three-to-one lifetime
domination in the polls pretty much proves which team has really been
dominant.DuckhunterWell said. Utah fans hypocritically
obsess about opponent rankings because they have so few rankings of their own.
AZUTE1"How bad was Michigan?"If Michigan had
beaten Ohio St in their regular season finale, the Wolverines would have been
playing in the Rose Bowl instead of the Holiday Bowl.The Wolverines
were ranked #14 in the pre-season poll and rose as high as #3. Michigan was
ranked #13 in early October, before a rash of injuries took their toll on the
Wolverines. The vast majority of those injured players were back and healthy
when Michigan played BYU in the Holiday Bowl.-----Summary of AP RankingsBYU has been ranked in the Final AP Poll 17
times, in 25 out of 77 seasons (32%), and in 22% of 1053 polls Seasons Ranked1974 1977 1979 1980 1981 1983 1984 1985 1986 1988
1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1996 1997 1999 2001 2006 2007 2008 2009 2012Utah has been ranked in the Final AP Poll 5 times, in 8 out of 77
seasons (10%), and in 7% of 1053 polls Seasons Ranked1947 1994 1996 2003 2004 2008 2009 2010During the bcs era, BYU has
been ranked in 7 of 15 seasons; Utah has been ranked in 5 of 15 seasons
I really enjoy the utah "fan" hypocrisy of trying to pretend your
opponents ranking somehow matters while your own ranking does not.LOL!
AZUTE1As far as BYU's 1984 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, BYU was
greatly aided by three very impressive goal-line stands at Pittsburgh, at Air
Force, and at Hawaii, and by one of the gutsiest performances by an entire team
in the Holiday Bowl, where BYU fought back from a deficit to beat Michigan,
despite having an injured quarterback who could barely stand after sustaining a
first half knee injury.BYU did what no other team did in 1984; they
avoided losing to lesser teams like Kansas, Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, USC and
UCLA.BYU was aided by other teams losing, but isn't that the
case with EVERY national champion?There's never been a national
champion that's beaten every one of their closest competitors.BYU would have gladly played Washington or Nebraska in the Holiday Bowl, so
why whine about BYU "not playing anybody", when it was the Huskies and
Huskers who refused to accept an invitation to play the #1 team? If anything,
it was those two teams, especially Washington, who tried to "back into"
a national championship by playing a lesser team in a bowl.
AZUTE1How many of Utah's bcs era bowl winning teams actually
finished in the Top 25?Let's review:bcs eraTop 25 FinishesBYU 6Utah 5Top 15 FinishesBYU 3Utah 2Conference ChampionshipsBYU 4Utah
4Bronco/Kyle eraTop 25 FinishesBYU 5Utah
3Top 15 FinishesBYU 3Utah 1Conference
ChampionshipsBYU 2Utah 1It's quite obvious, that a
mediocre Utah team beating another mediocre team in a bowl doesn't mean
much on a national scale. U still weren't good enough to be ranked.
During this current BCS Era, both UTAH/byu have reached 11 bowl games out of 15
seasons.UTAH has gone 10-1, twice going undefeated.byu
has struggled to reach .500 and above while going an impressive 6-5, never
achieving undefeated and never achieving what UTAH's achieved twice, the
1st time when it was more difficult to do so, a BCS Bowl Game. Even
Hawaii/Northern Illinois have each achieved a BCS Bowl Game. Yet, it forever
eludes byu.And then there's the expected annual loss to
UTAH.Boy, the '80s seem like they occurred centuries ago,
don't you think?
....So how did BYU end up #1?Well, for one thing, BYU was greatly
aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20 and you
see only one team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie. Everyone
else had at least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose Bowl bid
because Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference champion
(though they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team, Florida, was
hit with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one wanted to
reward a "cheater." So the timing was right.Of course, in
2007 a 2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team that looked
a lot like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in 1984 was a
zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing.In any case, it had
never happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have
been quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and
byu--Texas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been tearing it up
over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none of those
other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at: they
finished #1.Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other
teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The only
so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma came
very close in 1956). BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3, placing
their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools.And yet their
performance was as weak as their schedule.They won five games by a
touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a 24-17 win
against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl opponent ever
faced by a so-called "national champion."How bad was
Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15
against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in
the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.
Deep,I conceded the NC, and you avoided the point that BYU
hasn't come close to putting together the body of work Utah did in 2008.
And you avoided answering the question of whether or not BYU has ever beat more
that one team in a season that finished the year ranked.
gored / U 90It's laughable that you conveniently cite rankings
as gospel ONLY when they conform to your own biased view of the world.
U 90Here's how we know that BYU was National Champion in 1984,
they were ranked #1.Here's how we know that Utah wasn't
National Champion in 2008, they were ranked #2.Of course, if you
insist on going "bcs era"; the Utes have never finished higher than #4
in the Coaches Poll, the poll that officially crowns the bcs championship game
U90If you eliminate BYU's extra season-ending game with Utah
State(1-10), which did absolutely NOTHING to improve BYU's ranking since
BYU was already ranked #1 before they played the Aggies, there's very
little difference between BYU's 1984 schedule and Utah's 2004
schedule, in fact, BYU's schedule was arguably stronger than Utah's
schedule.BYU 1984 beat four regular season opponents with winning
records: Tulsa(6-5), Hawaii(7-4), #24 Air Force(8-4), and Utah(6-5-1). Utah 2004 beat three regular season opponents with winning records: Texas
A&M(7-5), New Mexico(7-5), and Wyoming(7-5), none of them as good as Air
Force or Hawaii.Combined records of BYU's regular season
opponents not including Utah State (54-69-1)Combined records of
Utah's regular season opponents (53-72)It's interesting
that Utah fans never question the worthiness of Utah's 2004 bcs busting
team, despite playing a regular season schedule that was arguably worse than
BYU's 1984 regular season schedule.-----BYU was
better than Washington in 1984 AND 1985! Washington was given the
opportunity to prove they were better in 1984 and passed.
U 90"That's really neat, but BYU lost to all of those
teams."No they didn't. BYU BEAT #16/#17 Utah State, and
lost to three others, all on the road, by a total of 10 points. BYU also
destroyed ACC division champ Georgia Tech (a team that easily handled USC in the
Sun Bowl), and BYU beat MWC tri-champion SDSU(9-4). Who did U beat besides
BYU?Unlike Utah, which lost to the only two Top 25 teams they played
and didn't beat a single PAC 12 team with a winning record.It's laughable that the ONLY decent wins the Utes have had since joining
the PAC, are a couple of wins over "irrelevant" Independent BYU.Bottom Line during the Independent/PAC eraTop 25 FinishesBYU 1Utah 0Bowl WinsBYU 2Utah 1Losing SeasonsBYU 0Utah 12012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5)
< unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)2011 #25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) < unranked/#39
@Deep Blue "8 months after BYU beat Michigan in the Holiday Bowl to win
the 1984 National Championship, BYU destroyed Washington 31-3"1984 = Apples1985 = OrangesBYU beat UW in 1985 which somehow
means BYU was better than UW in 1984? That's some really weak logic.
@DeepBlue "How do you know that Michigan(6-6) wasn't a Top 25 team
and that Air Force wasn't a Top 10 team?"Here's how we
know AF was not a top 10 team.... they weren't ranked in the top 10.
Regarding Michigan, when was the last time a 6-6 team was ranked in the top
25?I'll give you the NC, BYU earned it based on pre-BCS
standards. Are you man enough to admit it was the weakest NC schedule of
all-time and not even close to what Utah accomplished in 2008?
goredIf you know anything about college football, you know that BYU
was the most heavily scrutinized national champion in the last 40 years. After rising to #1 in late November, BYU's record and opponents
were carefully scrutinized for over a month, along with the records and
opponents of every legitimate contender, yet after over a month of heavy
scrutiny, BYU was judged by all five major selecting organizations to be more
deserving of winning the 1984 National Championship than any other contender.Washington and Nebraska have only themselves to blame for BYU only
having to beat Michigan in the National Championship game.btw, 8
months after BYU beat Michigan in the Holiday Bowl to win the 1984 National
Championship, BYU destroyed Washington 31-3
AZUTE1"Interesting that you comment on convincing voters, rather
than actually earning it on the field-of-play."LOL at your
illogic. BYU did earn it on the field by beating every team they faced.How do you know BYU played the third weakest schedule? How do you know that
Michigan(6-6) wasn't a Top 25 team and that Air Force wasn't a Top 10
team?#1/#1 BYU(13-0) was undefeated and BEAT #24 Air Force(8-4) on
the road 30-25#2/#2 Washington(11-1) LOST to USC(9-3) 7-16, which
LOST to UCLA 10-29, which was destroyed by Nebraska 3-42, and Washington only
beat Michigan(6-6) 20-11, the same Michigan team that BYU beat in the Holiday
Bowl 24-17#3/#7 Florida(9-1-1) LOST to Miami(8-5) 20-32, and was
ineligible to play in a bowl#4/#3 Nebraska(10-2) LOST to
Syracuse(6-5) 9-17#6/#6 Oklahoma LOST to Kansas(5-6) 11-28Michigan BEAT Miami(8-5) 22-14Both Washington and Nebraska were
invited to play BYU, but turned down the invitation.
@Snack "That's what BYU did in 1984 and what Utah failed to do in
2008"What Utah did in 2008 was beat 4 ranked teams including the
team that spent the majority of the season at #1. What BYU did in 1984 was
achieve their signature win against 8-4 Air Force or 6-6 Michigan... you pick.
BYU won an NC, however Utah put together a much more impressive body of work.
Has BYU ever beaten more that one team that finished the season ranked?
@mussingaround "BYU played FIVE teams that FINISHED in the Top 25 in
2012.That's really neat, but BYU lost to all of those teams.
BYU racked up their wins against weak competition... Idaho, Idaho State, Weber,
New Mexico State etc. Their SOS was 63 which paved the way to a low level bowl.
If you claim otherwise, you're kidding yourself.
sports fan (continued)As for your last statement “Unlike Kyle
(who has lost to two), Bronco has NEVER lost to a 10-loss team like Utah lost to
in 2011 that denied the Utes a gift-wrapped PAC South title.” Again, this
is misleading, since in 2011 Utah was adjusting to a BCS schedule of USC,
Arizona State, Washington, and UCLA while BYU was playing such
“powerhouses” as Idaho, Hawaii, Idaho State, and New Mexico State.
Kyle would have killed those teams. Yes, losing to Colorado was disappointing,
but their lack of depth in the first year of the PAC 12 was challenging. BYU
would have been lucky to have gone 2-10. Remember, Utah humiliated BYU 54-10 IN
PROVO.snack pacIf you have followed college football
over the past 40 years, you would know that BYU backed into the “national
championship”. They only beat one ranked team, and barely beat a 6-6
Michigan team by 7 points. Utah, on the other hand, beat four ranked teams,
including former #1 Alabama. But the BCS schools had already changed the rules,
and non-BCS Utah was not allowed the national championship.
sports fan You say "Utah fans are prone to hyperbole when they
have absolutely no evidence to back up their wild claims." Really? Utah
went 5-7 against BCS competition, including a win over BYU. It would logically
follow that BYU would be lucky to go 4-8 if they had played Utah's
schedule. Their offense struggled last year more so than Utah's did. You go on to say "Unlike Utah, BYU wasn't kept out of a bowl
game last season because the Cougars couldn't beat the only WAC team on
their schedule." What you failed to say is that BYU received a bowl bid
because they padded their schedule with awful WAC-type teams such as Hawaii,
Weber State, Idaho, San Jose State, and New Mexico State. If BYU had played
Utah's schedule with only one easy game (Northern Colorado), yes, BYU would
have been lucky to go 4-8. 3-9 would have been more likely.(continued)
Interesting that you comment on convincing voters, rather than actually earning
it on the field-of-play.byu played the 3rd weakest schedule in the
nation in '84, yet was awarded for it with a "MYTHICAL" NC.
Hysterical, actually. Particularly with them greatly benefiting from beating a
grossly overrated PITT team, thus vaulting them out of nowhere up there to near
the Top-10 [#12, if I remember correctly] in the rankings.PITT
concluded the season at 3-7-1, bowl-less and UNRANKED. Everybody knows byu
couldn't have done it without such a fluke-occurrence taking place and,
obviously, the voters couldn't undo their obvious error in ranking PITT so
high, to begin with.BTW, did you see what OU did to PITT on the
same, exact field just 2 weeks later? Unlike byu, in struggling to barely beat
PITT, OU complete obliterated them. Good times.
byU should change it's mascot to a top - that's all their fans do is
spin!!Reality - check it out in Websters!!Go Utes!! Go
VegasUte"I just love how a good Utah story like this, that has
nothing to do with byU, sends the jealous byU faithful, and it's trollers,
into a tizzy."I just love how you're so blinded by your
crimson glasses that you didn't notice that the very first comment on this
article was made by a Ute fan taking a dig at the Cougars.Chris B:
"Its now to the point where Utah can decide who we want and then USU and BYU
fight for the leftovers. Utah has won the recruiting battle 4 years
straight."If you're going to whine about BYU fans
commenting on a "Utah article", at least show some consistency in
calling out your fellow Ute fans.
Hey Dan - can you do something about getting an article about Singleton on this
site? I mean, if an unrated LB who commits to little brother can get an
article, why not a big, 3 star speedster WR?
pocyUte"Why do you BYU fans who post on these Utah articles care
so much about what Utah fans say on this board anyway?"Sounds
like the kind of argument someone makes when they realize that they're
losing the real argument.We're just trying to help our young
friends understand a very simple concept; that the way to win a national
championship is to win enough games and play well enough to convince a majority
of poll voters that you're more deserving of being named national champion
than any other team.That's what BYU did in 1984 and what Utah
failed to do in 2008.
Very nice article Dan. Congratulations to you and the Deseret News for your
insight.I just love how a good Utah story like this, that has
nothing to do with byU, sends the jealous byU faithful, and it's trollers,
into a tizzy. Pure entertainment!! Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!!
Why do you BYU fans who post on these Utah articles care so much about what Utah
fans say on this board anyway?So many of you have Duckhunteritis.
It appears that there is a visceral need for you to type til your blue in the
face, trying to convince us of your reality. Why is it such a big deal to you?
JollyRoger"Utah has been playing a "BCS" schedule for
two years now."And proving that they're in over their
heads:7-11 in football8-28 in basketball15-39 overall
(28%) in the PAC in the two big boy sportsIt's laughable the
Utah fans keep beating their chests about their PAC 12 membership as validation
of Utah's athletic excellence, when the evidence is overwhelming that
Utah's athletic prowess had very little, if anything, to do with
Utah's invite to the PAC 12.We all know why BYU wasn't
invited to the PAC 12 or Big 12, and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with the
quality of BYU's athletic programs, which dwarf Utah's programs, by
comparison.In the 20-year history of the Director's Cup, which
recognizes overall athletic excellence across all men's and women's
sports, BYU has finished ahead of Utah 20 out of 20 times.Current
Director's Cup standings as of April 25, 2013 #45 BYU 308.00
points#63 Utah 228.75 points
gored"If your team had played the same schedule that the
University of Utah played these last two years, they would have been lucky to
have gone 4-8."Utah fans are prone to hyperbole when they have
absolutely no evidence to back up their wild claims.Here are a
couple of indisputable facts that refute your assertion:-- Unlike
Utah, BYU wasn't kept out of a bowl game last season because the Cougars
couldn't beat the only WAC team on their schedule-- Unlike Kyle
(who has lost to two), Bronco has NEVER lost to a 10-loss team like Utah lost to
in 2011 that denied the Utes a gift-wrapped PAC South title.
Despite the crimson colored bubble that the kids on the live under, the reality
is this:Since Utah's 2008 high water mark, the Utes have been
in steady decline, finishing with worse records and lower rankings than BYU in
the three out four seasons.2009 #12/#12/#15 BYU(11-2) >
#18/#18/#24 Utah(10-3)2010 unranked/#45 BYU(7-6) < UR/#23/#26
Utah(10-3)2011 UR/#25/#34 BYU(10-3) > unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)2012
unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) > unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)The kids on the
hill desperately cling to their head-to-head wins versus BYU because that's
the only thing the Utes have going for them since joining the PAC.The Utes aren't even good enough to play in a bowl game anymore.
wwookie"The Utah schedule (compared to BYU´s for the ease
of the Cougar come-backs to this post that inevitably come) is
incredible..."As we all know, pre-season rankings are
MEANINGLESS!USC was a pre-season favorite to win the NC in 2012, and
didn't even come close to finishing in the Top 25, while unheralded Utah
State and San Jose State both finished in the Top 25.BYU played FIVE
teams that FINISHED in the Top 25 in 2012, including one of the two teams that
played in the NC game.Utah only played TWO.BYU finished
#26 in Sagarin. Utah only finished #61.It's laughable that all
of those Ute NFL players, including Star, couldn't even get the Utes into a
bowl game last year.
Polynesian players go to Utah because of exposure to more scouts. The Utah
schedule (compared to BYU´s for the ease of the cougar come-backs to this
post that inevitably come) is incredible:4 probable top 25 teams in
Oregon (projected no.3), Stanford (projected no. 4), USC, and Oregon State.5 possible top 25 teams in Utah State, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona State and
BYUand three others: Weber State, Colorado, Washington StateFOr the trolls wanting to compare, BYU also has 4 probable top 25 teams,
but none projected to be in top 10 (Texas, Notre Dame who finished 4th last
year, Boise State and probably someone else other than Middle Tennessee
State)It is no wonder the utes have so many players in the NFL,
especially the polynesian players.GO UTES!!
@ekuteYou mean the same "pathetic argument" that utes make about
being in the PAC 12 and having recent success against the cougars somehow
equating to being bigger and better? Enough of the little brother BS, there is
nothing little about BYU in comparison to Utah. Bigger stadium, bigger fanbase,
more national success in awards and trophies and conference championships. Grats
to the utes on their recent success against BYU but that in no way makes U
bigger or better. As I've said BYU has had their string of successes
against Utah also. 2006-09 was 3/4 for BYU...not that long ago. And Jolly...I
said Utah's teams were awesome in 2004 and 2008. I actually picked Utah to
beat Alabama in the sugar bowl. It doesn't make a lot of sense to make your
accusations when u don't even know me. I actually want Utah to be
successful, and have many friends and family that are ute fans. I give them
their credit when it's do. Try and do the same for BYU.
@Tajemnica, Yep, USC, the best team money can buy. Could they have done the
things they have done without the cheating?
@Roger JollyI think you're right, same old "pathetic
argument"I'll just leave it at that. Go Utes.
Actually I don't hate Utah at all, just disagree with their fans sometimes.
Same way you disagree with BYU fans, Jolly. It's all in good fun, I
don't take it too seriously and neither should U.
...And Cougsndawgs hates Utah. Do we as Utah fan want to acknowledge this kid.
Let him put out his pathetic argument. He will never say Utah has a good team.
People like this are trolls and I wonder if real Cougar fans even claim him as a
real BYU FAN?
Ekute: LOL, ya BYU fans are so jealous of Utah's 5-7 record and lack
of any victories over winning PAC 12 teams. We are also jealous of your trophy
case which contains 2 BCS bowls (Grats) and little else. We are jealous of your
tv deal which didn't allow people with directtv to see half your games, let
alone on national tv. Why WOULD Utah want anything BYU has...they've never
embraced a winning tradition so why would they want one now? Utah's two
years of great success are nice but I think I'll stick with finishing in
the top 25 three times as much as Utah, having a trophy case full if awards
including 6 CFB HoF inductees to Utah's zero, bigger and better facilities
than Utah, national exposure from espn over Utah's ROOT PAC network local
tv...wait what was I supposed to be jealous of again?
Hmm... can't really understand how Cougar fans could masquerade as USC and
Oregon fans. It must be a real let down for Cougar fans that teams like Utah and
TCU have joined the 'Power Conferences'. Even Maryland and Rutger (who
have played in a total of eight bowl games) get invited into the B1G. Being a legacy, national brand must be hard that nobody is even calling. I
know BYU is exactly where they want to be, begging for a game i.e. playing Notre
Dame in their house twice, but come on. Really? Seen on College Football Live
that Notre Dame should wax BYU. It does nothing for them as strength of
schedule. Sounds familiar, does nothing for Utah either. I heard
once that this year's Cougar schedule is 'like' a BCS schedule.
Welcome to the club, Utan has been playing a "BCS" schedule for two
years now. Think whatever you want but you Cougar fans are the
one's looking in...
btw, it is not literally the only thing we have to brag about nor is it pretty
slim stuff.Slim is lower tier-bowl smack, stadium size smack and tax
dollar smack.byu fans have nothing that Ute fans want but
apparently(Slim smack under Utah articles) there is a degree of jealousy on our
little brothers side of the fence.
The rivalry is as strong as it has ever been and football is the most important
part of it, and we Ute fans own the bragging rights, all time and for the last
25 years. You're lying to yourself if you attempt to minimize
the rivalry or the importance of football to it.What say you?
@ekuteOf course you are, it is literally the only thing you have to
"brag" about and even that is pretty slim stuff. But go with what you
Hey duck,I'm bragging about Utah vs byu in head to head rivalry
football!What say you?
@goredBragging about your schedule, while also whining about your
schedule, is a lot like bragging about how great your recruiting is, while
losing the majority of your games. LOL!
@LaMont Levi HansenThank you for the humorous post. (At least, I
hope you meant it as the humorous post that it came off as.)@duckhunterIf your team had played the same schedule that the
University of Utah played these last two years, they would have been lucky to
have gone 4-8. A more realistic projection for your team would have been 3-9.
Utah has not had the luxury of playing Idaho, Idaho State, San Diego State,
Hawaii, Weber State, and New Mexico State on a consistent basis like your team
Utah has done a really good job in developing this pipeline and continues to add
great Poly kids to the program year after year. Coach Mac saw the opportunity
years ago and Coach Whit has kept the same philosophy. This gives Utah a big
recruiting advantage over a lot of schools.For a number of the
posters below ... I didn't see anything in this article about a team from
Provo or a team from LA. Funny how some posters have a one track mind and are
so insecure they need to post something about 'their' football team on
every Ute article.
@azute1"I'll give byu this much, they have the market
cornered on PRE-season/MYTHICAL accolades, hands-down."Kinda
sounds like a bottom feeder program that brags about their recruiting but then
churns out losing conference seasons. Bragging before it actually happens is
rampant on the hill.********************
high school fan: "Is your team going to win the conference this year, or
maybe next year or how about anytime soon? The truthful answer is no and you
know it. The question is how long will good players go to somewhere they
can't win and the answer s not very long."Until I got to
the end of your post, I thought you were talking about byu. lol. For a fan
base that has been sold a bill of good on independence, byu fans are incredibly
obsessed with conferences. Get into a big boy conference (or even the MWC) and
then you can talk. We all know that won't happen...ever.
My bad, i meant "OU", not "UO".
This is not only great for Utah, but for the state of Utah. For BYU, Utah State
and Weber to be able to fight it out for the second tier Poly players--when they
might choose to stay closer to home and go to Hawaii, San Diego State, Cal
Davis, or Cal Lutheran--is a real feather in the cap of those programs. But BCS
is BCS and the Pac 12 is the Pac 12. I only hope these players can help us
compete in real football!
Hey Chris BIs your team going to win the conference this year, or maybe
next year or how about anytime soon? The truthful answer is no and you know it.
The question is how long will good players go to somewhere they can't win
and the answer s not very long. I would love for the Utes to make a run at a
title but that is not why they were invited. Utah and Colorado were simply
invited for the numbers of Tv's each state could bring to the table for the
"BYU has as big of a national significance as my Oregon Ducks."Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!.... good one
Now I have given Bronco credit where I objectively see it, and I think Bronco
has done more with less than Kyle ever has. He coaches under unique
circumstances. But I think some of your stats are not showing the complete
picture. Yes Utah is 7-11 in the PAC so far but I don't think
Utah is any worse than before. They are feeling the effects of a week in and
week out grind (depth wise now). From 2000 to 2010 (ten years), Utah had a
better record with more wins against BCS schools than any other so called mid
major or non BCS team in the country. Yes, it's true. Utah had more wins
against BCS teams in that span than BYU, Boise State, TCU, and all other non BCS
schools prior to 2010. If Utah hasn't gotten worse, but now is losing the
majority of these games, it makes sense that it has much to do with playing
tougher teams each week. Even the weak PAC schools have bigger and stronger
athletes in the war of attrition that football is health wise. The MWC days
allowed for more physical recovery and peaking for the bigger programs.
It's true Bronco has 5 ten win season to Kyle's 3, but it was a 4 to 3
edge for Bronco when the schedules were comparable before the change in
direction for both programs in 2010. But including the 5th 10 win season for BYU
against Utah isn't fair as I see it because in 2011 Utah wasn't going
to win 10 games that first year in the PAC regardless. Utah beat BYU 54-10 that
year and finished 8-5. Again BYU was 10-3 but when they were 6-3, they finished
the season (November) with games against Idaho, New Mexico State, Hawaii, and
Tulsa. So yeah, BYU won 10 games that year but it is my opinion that Utah had
the better year at 8-5 in the PAC in 2011. Don't forget head to head either
(convincing outcome there). I mentioned the Idaho game, but before the last 4
games, BYU also played Idaho State as well. That was the weakest schedule BYU
has ever had. If I were a Cougar fan, I would be excited for the upcoming
schedule this year though.
@TajemnicaAlthough your numbers are accurate, they are subjective
relative to promoting the blue as being superior. The argument is understandable
when representing BYU though. From the time when Bronco and Kyle
took over as head coaches (same time) until 2010 when Utah went to the PAC and
BYU independence, Utah had one more win than BYU in that span. That is pretty
equal given the more comparable schedules. Utah did lose the occasional game to
inferior competition but made up for it with more non conference wins. The head
to head did not favor Utah up until that point though because although Kyle
leads the series 5-3 because when the break off took place in 2010 it was 3-3
(even between the coaches). Anyway, I believe Bronco leads by 3.5
games overall now at this point and Bronco made up 4.5 games since Kyle had the
one game edge as of 2010. Obviously the PAC 12 is the major factor there. I
don't think Utah is worse now but plays tougher games week in and week out.
Don't listen to these guys, Tajemnica. I agree with you!I'm a BIG Oregon Ducks fan! I sure hate those classless Utes and their
exaggerated football recruiting successes. Everyone knows that BYU is and always
will be the premier program in Utah. BYU has as big of a national significance
as my Oregon Ducks.Go Oregon Ducks!
No, just like with PITT, UO was ranked, PRE-season, which is inherently never
based upon games actually played. And as was the case with PITT, UO actually
played their games and proved to all, unequivocally, how erroneous their
PRE-season ranking was.I'll give byu this much, they have the
market cornered on PRE-season/MYTHICAL accolades, hands-down.The
mere fact you're on here at length and actually attempting to debate
what's clearly irrefutable, is proof to all how much of a byu fan you
are.You're as much a USC fan as I'm a byu fan.
TajemnicaRe: "@motorbike - I am a resident of Utah not a fan of
any of the teams from Utah so apparantly I'm not the only one who missed
the point."________Do you honestly think anyone believes
@azute1If you want to go with that logic then I can throw in a few more
'look what happened laters' in regards to all three Utah teams that
would include victories over teams that were unranked at the time and finished a
given season as a ranked team but then I run into the realms of either more
opinion based reasoning or more work than my time is worth. If we also want to
break down the BYU victory over Oklahoma we have a big what if. What if BYU
didn't knock Bradford out of the game? Would Oklahoma have gone on to have
a much better season? Probably, but there is know way to know for sure. The FACT
is Oklahoma was ranked #3 when they lost. Also it is not my point to defend BYU.
I just use these facts to put delusional utah fans in their place. You want to
argue 2004 or 2008 specifically? You win. @cougsndawgsYou make an
excellent point. And at least your comments aren't based in fallacies. UGA
is up there on my list though. Just not number one. What's worse is I like
Notre dame too.
Seriously a coug on here talking any smack? LoL
Taj:There's no point in arguing with a ute fan like sportyguy. Now
you know why BYU fans get so frustrated with the kiddies on the hill.
They're delusional enough to argue with a Trojan fan, and then take the low
road doing it...bandwagon fan, number of arrests, etc. Give us all a break
sports guy...seriously you're going to argue with a USC fan? They are so
much bigger than U with a far better history and winning tradition that the only
time they even notice U is when they have to play you...and even then it takes
them gifting U 14 points before they wake up and realize they're actually
playing someone. Chrissy can be glad U are in the PAC 12 but no one else in
America cares until the lil guys can do anything in their big boy league. Btw
taj, you should claim to be a UGA fan because we all know the SEC is a
man's game while the rest of you are just big boys.
"One over a top 5 team"Your comment contains much I could
refute, so I'll just simply focus on this one point. You need to continue
talking about this, "top 5 team", and include the fact they hovered
around .500 for the vast majority of the season and finished it, unranked. This
"top 5" ranking was merely, PRE-season.Not unlike '84
PITT and their, PRE-season ranking. Yes, the same, exact PITT team which went
on to conclude the season at 3-7-1, bowl-less and unranked.For a
person who claims not to be a fan of byu, you certainly spend an awful lot of
time attempting to "defend" them.
TajemnicaWest Valley, UtahNice try but FAIL. Anyone who even
professes to know anything about local college football knows Ngata is from
Highland High School and attended Oregon.If you were under the
impression that Ngata played at the U, that is your failing not anyone
@sportyguyWould you like a list of victories over ranked opponents each of
the three schools has in the last 4 years or will you ignore that fact as well?
USU zero. A couple close ones losing to Auburn by 4 and Oklahoma by a touchdown.
Utah one. and it was over BYU who according to you is clearly inferior. BYU
three. One over a top 5 team and one over utah with 3 losses by one point to
ranked teams. Apparantly my point is also being missed here as it relates to how
recruiting has supposedly been better at utah for the past four years when they
don't have the victories to back it up. Also my comparisons relate to
success on the field. Not personal decisions outside of on field
accomplishments. If you want to compare ethics, you have us beat@motorbikeI am a resident of Utah not a fan of any of the teams from
Utah so apparantly I'm not the only one who missed the point.@everoneI was also under the impression until recently that Ngata played
at utah so it is a widely held misunderstanding based on other ignorant u fans
TajemnicaApparently you missed the point ... know one on this thread
stated that they "care" that Ngata works out at the U. We're simply
trying to help the frantic and emotional coug fans like you and Ducky understand
why a younger Ute recruit or player might mistakenly think Ngata was a Ute.Clear enough for you? Or do you and Ducky want to keep spinning our comments
so you can feel better about yourselves and the state of BYU football?
@TajemnicaAlso # of arrests, number of violations, number of Heisman
trophy winners who murdered their wives, number of Heisman trophy winners that
had the trophy taken away. Your comparison of # of wins per season
is just as invalid since 2010 none of them have played in the same conference.
If you would like to say that the likes of Idaho State, Idaho, Hawaii, NMSU and
SJSU are on par with the rest of the Pac-12 including USC then I suppose
that's your opinion.@Duckhunter - As far as I can tell, you are
the only one trying to associate Ngata with the Utah program.
Duckhunter: "He is from east slc though so it makes sense he would work out
at the u in the off season, it is a convenient place to get to."Yes, that does make sense. What doesn't make sense, however, is that if
he in fact has no connection to the team, why he would take time in the spring
to attend practices and work with players individually on improving technique
and mentoring them in their future careers in football, while wearing Utah gear.
The answer is because he in fact does have a great relationship with the
coaching staff, and is a Utah supporter second only to his alma mater.
@everyoneWho the heck cares where someone works out? I worked out at UGA
while visiting family in Georgia. Does that make me a Bulldogs fan?
@ DuckhunterCould you list these relevant athletes that work out at
BYU that you 'know'?Please?
A sure sign of the state of a program is when the fans start using things like
Ngata training at Utah as a form of smack talk. Why not just smack about the
win streak your team has against Utah. Or talk about how your conference is
being discussed and favored in the new playoff system. Or talk about how you
can sell out your stadium but your rival can't. Or talk about the
recruiting battles you are winning in-state. Oops, sorry Cougars if that hurt a
little. I guess if all you got is "X player trains at your University
because it's close" as smack, you gotta use all the tools you can.Can I just say that, as a Ute fan, it is nice to see the DesNews finally
swallow a little bit of pride, recognize the fact that Utah fans are growing,
and give the premier University in the state a little bit of print? These
articles by Sorensen are spectacular (and if you like these, you should go check
out the content on UteZone because THAT is where Ute fans go to get their
information, even with these recent articles). Thanks Dan.
DuckWhy do you care so much about what Utah fans think?Here is a great article, about how the program and Polynesian community work
well together, and all you can do is hang on to a quote from a recruit used to
illustrate how the family atmosphere at Utah illustrates the family atmosphere
in the Polynesian community.You are the one that appears desperate.
Great article Dan! UofU coverage from Dan is one of the best things about
Utezone, and now DNews!
Nice article, it probably doesn't say anything that a Ute fan didn't
already "feel," but it is interesting to see the numbers.The
"Poly Pipeline" certainly has been very good to the UofU and the UofU
has obviously been very good for a lot of Polynesian football players.Seeing several BYU fans try to take pot shots at Utah's success is
interesting, it is even more interesting to see BYU fans mascaraed as fans of
some other program to take pot shots at Utah. Do these yahoos really think they
are fooling anyone?The "lady" certainly protests too much.
However it is really funny to see the squirming.
@Ducky,You mean like the way BYU fans consider Dale Murphy and every
other famous LDS athlete one of their own?
Denver2PortlandDenver, COKeep it classy Cougar "fan".
Maybe you can next tell us about the attributes of Italians or Germans or
Duckhunter, Your 2013 graduating class, with "first
rounders" Hoffman and Van Noy are going to be 0-4 against big brother Utah
in their careers.0-4.Ouch!LOL
@sportyguyState title was the wrong term to use. I don't use opinion
based objective reasoning. I use facts. What I should have referenced is the
best record from the three big schools over a 4 year period. I'm pretty
sure none of the schools recruit with the specific goal of only beating in state
teams so only using in state games should not apply to whether or not a schools
recruiting has been more successful than another's. As for USC, I grew up
in Santa Monica so jumping on the band wagon doesn't really apply. And
while we haven't been as good in recent years, we still have all three Utah
schools beat in terms of opinion based recruiting, PAC 10 victories, victories
over Utah schools, popularity based on number of fans, national titles, NFL
draftees, heisman trophy winners...should I keep going?Go Trojans!
Just another area(among the many) where BYU is being out recruited. Must be
painful to Cougar "fan".
@skullduggeryAs opposed to "the bleak days" that are
utah's last couple of seasons? Losing records are bleak and hardly a
reprieve from your also "bleak" offseasons. It's all bleak for you
guys recently apparently.LOL!
Magna Ute Fan, McBride was not only the Godfather of modern Ute
football, he is a King of Class, something that escaped Urban, many coaches
before him, many posters, and even Whit to a degree. Athletic competition
doesn't have to involve hate and/or bitterness. McBride and LaVell are
great friends to this day. Would that fans could follow suit.
LOL! at the utah "fans" so desperate to make a connection that
isn't there. You realize Ngata is not a utah alum don't you? He is
from east slc though so it makes sense he would work out at the u in the off
season, it is a convenient place to get to. Just like several former and current
pro athletes I know that live in utah valley work out at BYU in the off season
despite the fact they didn't attend BYU. But I don't see any BYU fans
trying to claim they are now Cougars. What an interesting inferiority complex
utah "fans" suffer from.LOL!
McBride was pretty smart with a lot of the things he did. Utah owes him a lot
for what he started. He brought Utah back to prosperity. Urban Meyer took them
to the national spotlight. Kyle has and will continue to keep them in the
national eye as they adjust and succeed in the PAC12. I'm loving this Utah
coverage and love the BYU trolls that cringe at a Utah article (compared to the
10 BYU articles). It is true sign of change in the Utah college football
landscape when the DesNews is publishing Utah content. The signs are
unmistakable. The new generation of football fans are siding with Utah and a
PAC12 conference you can cheer for. BYU maintains a monopoly on the senior
citizens who get angry when you stand up at a football game to cheer. The tide
is changing and this is just one more sign of it.Ngata was choosing
between Oregon and BYU. That's kind of like saying Jabari Parker was
choosing between Duke and BYU. Delusional. That one came straight from the
Cougarboard where straight jackets are handed out to anyone who posts.
We all know that Chris B likes his Pac 12 membership. He also likes to finish at
the bottom of his conference in almost EVERYTHING.Hey Chris.....I
drive a BMW, I won't mention that all the tires are flat or bald, or that
all four doors are smashed in and the windshild is cracked so bad that even
Safe-Lite won't look at it and to top it off my windshild wipers just smear
everything I am trying to look at. But hey......I drive a BMW.
I'm always impressed with how these Polynesian names roll off of
Whittingham's tongue. He must have some Pacific Island blood in him.Thanks to Dan Sorensen and the Deseret News for providing coverage that
we Ute fans can savor to get us through the bleak days between seasons!
@TajemnicaThat is a very loose translation of who the state title
went to.In 2011 BYU beat USU and lost to Utah. Utah didn't play USU
and beat BYU.How do you figure BYU wins that one? Based on the weakest
schedule they played since the early 70's?*your school? USC?
Wow band wagon much? I am surprised you haven't switched to bama or Oregon
since USC hasn't been significant since 2005
Nice article, Dan!What is particularly heartening is the fact that
the Poly pipeline extends beyond the boundaries of the state of Utah. Most
out-of-state Polynesian recruits, California and Texas, state the large number
of Poly players already on campus, and the resulting culture that has been
fostered as a result, is a major factor in their decision to attend the U. I
have my doubts that Tevi and Vaenuku, two players that Whit has already stated
could make an impact and get playing time as true freshman, pick the U without
that strong presence.Utah is a very diverse football team. 1/3
Polynesian, 1/3 African American, 1/3 Caucasian. About 1/2 the team is LDS, 1/2
non-LDS. There's a little bit of something for every recruit to connect
with on a personal level.
@ChristineHow winning the in state recruiting title translates to in state
"championships" and overall win totals:In the last four years the
in state title has gone to:2009 BYU 11-22010 utah 10-32011 BYU
10-32012 USU 11-2Total wins from 2009-2012:BYU 36utah
33USU 26Clearly as evidenced by facts and not opinions winning the
recruiting title has been insignificant for utahFurther: bowl games
attended/won:BYU 4/4utah 3/2USU 2/1.Come back to the PAC
10 when you can contribute more to my school than easy victories.Go
It is so good to see so many Polynesians coming to the U and doing so well.
It's also great to see how cultural diverse and welcoming the U of U has
become. It was my experience that, although coming from such different
backgrounds, the students were open and friendly. It's a great place to
get an education. And it's really cool now to go to games against quality
PAC 12 opponents each week.Go Utes!!
Ducky,Talk about frantic and emotional, where in the article does
"Utah" pretend Ngata is connected to them? That just happened to be part
of a direct quote from a player who was obviously mistaken. Not once did Dan
Sorenson mention Ngata among his lists of former or current Polynesian
players. And by the way, I'm fairly certain the reason the
player mistakenly lumped Ngata into his comment is due to the amount of time
Ngata spends on the U campus. Hard to blame a kid for thinking Ngata's a
former Ute when he's spends the majority of every off-season on the Ute
campus - the guy may as well be labeled a Ute.The glimpse of reality
this kind of article presents for you is clearly not good for your blood
pressure. May I suggest you calmly try to find your happy place? I'd go
with 1984 if I was you.
Thank Goodness for Ron McBride! He is the Godfather of modern football at the
U. I love the Poly community in Utah, and the Poly players at the U.
Can't wait to see the new guys coming to the U this fall.Go
Ducky-Because he is always up at the U with the team, and works out
with a lot of the team in the weight room during the summer. He has a very
strong connection with the team and the coaching staff.
Hmmmmm maybe it's because he trains at the U in the offseason with a bunch
of the Utah alumni from the NFL... Also it wasn't Utah saying that it was
the paper. But don't let facts get in the way of one of your posts.
@Duckhunter,He was smart to pick a BCS program.All
recruits are.Which is why we're dominating the recruiting
battle against byu lately.I love my BCS membership!
Why does utah continue to try and pretend that Ngata is somehow connected to the
university of utah? Not only did he not go to utah but when he signed with
oregon utah wasn't even a consideration, he actually was deciding between
oregon and BYU.
Its now to the point where Utah can decide who we want and then USU and BYU
fight for the leftovers.Utah has won the recruiting battle 4 years
straight. The great majority of kids who had offers to all 3 schools
have picked Utah the past couple years.And if you think stars
don't matter, Nick Saban disagrees with you.