Comments about ‘Utes football recruiting: Polynesian players prosper at Utah’

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Published: Friday, May 17 2013 8:50 a.m. MDT

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PACute_
Salt Lake City, Utah

Duckhunter

Stop confusing us with logic; everyone knows it's much more prestigious to beat a ranked team, than to be ranked yourself.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

Roger Jolly:

"I heard once that this year's Cougar schedule is 'like' a BCS schedule."

Yeah, but consider the source of who you heard that from. Betcha it was an Indy-WACer. The truth is, even with the stepped up schedule -- the likes they've never seen before -- the only "BCS schedule" our little brother can compare themselves to is the fledging Big [L]East, who WOULD have lost their BCS membership after this season had the BCS system not drawn to close. And even though the BCS is dead after this season, there will still be a divide between the "elite" and the "mid-major" caste system. And it's already been reported that the Big [L]East is scheduled to dwell with the MWC, C-USA, MAC, and Sun Belt conferences in the "Group of Five". How mid-majorey.

So if the cougars' schedule is "Big [L]East"-ish (which is at least better than the WAC-ish one they've been enjoying these past 2 seasons), and the Big [L]East is midmajor-ish, aren't they still "mid-majorey"?

I think so.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

DeepBlue:

"btw, 8 months after BYU beat Michigan in the Holiday Bowl to win the 1984 National Championship, BYU destroyed Washington 31-3."

BTW, 6-wks after beating UWa, you LOST to 1-10 UTEP. So if beating the Huskies in '85 supports your claim to being the #1 team in the nation the prior season, losing to UTEP the next month would only stand to validate the common national opinion that you were NOT.

And for what it's worth, the '84 Huskies were 11-1, having lost only to Pac-10 Co-champ USC. They graduated the bulk of their impact players before the '85 season. The '85 Huskies finished their regular season at 6-5, and also lost home games to Oregon St. (3-8) and Washington St. (4-7). Beating the '85 Huskies was not impressive. They were a completely different team that year.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

@naval

For what it's worth BYU was undefeated and lost to no one. Hence the National Championship and all the accompanying hardware that you can personally look at in BYU's jam packed display's of national awards on campus.

Interesting that they were considered worthy by pretty much everyone that matters and utah was considered completely unworthy by all the same people. But that's life I suppose, and reality. Utah "fans" probably ought to learn to accept reality.

anti BCS
Anaheim, CA

navelvet

For what it's worth, Washington only beat Michigan by two points more than BYU beat Michigan, but unlike BYU, Washington lost a game and passed on the opportunity to play #1 BYU.

The poll voters saw Washington's cowardice and appropriately didn't reward Washington for choosing to play a lower-ranked Oklahoma team, rather than playing the #1 team in the country.

GoRed
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

duckhunter,

You say "For what it's worth BYU was undefeated and lost to no one. Hence the 'national championship'". So, what you're saying is, that if team such as the 2008 Utah team is the only undefeated team, then they should be crowned national champions?

I mean, it's been repeated over and over here that BYU played a very average schedule in 1984 and beat a 6-6 Michigan team by 7 points. But since there was no BCS system in place, the powers-that-be had to award BYU the "national championship", even though they had only defeated one nationally ranked team (Pittsburgh). Barry Switzer and Bryant Gumbel are just two of the national figures who questioned the legitimacy of BYU's claim.

However, in 2008 Utah beat FOUR nationally ranked teams, including three from prominent BCS conferences. Utah beat the former #1-ranked team in the country. Because the BCS powers did not want a repeat of allowing a non-BCS team to be proclaimed nation champions, they made sure that a BCS team would be awarded it. And, ironically, it went to a team that beat Alabama by fewer points than Utah did.

Case closed.

VegasUte
Las Vegas, NV

@ Marked it Down: You are posting negatively on a Utah story, yet you are talking smack about my post? Oh the irony!! Just too fun to pass up! Please go on a byU story and mock my negative postings (here's a hint: you won't find any because I don't care about what little brother is doing!)

Thank all you trollers for entertaining us so!!!

Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!!

phoenix
Gilbert, AZ

gored

"since there was no BCS system in place, the powers-that-be had to award BYU the "national championship""

The powers-that-be didn't HAVE TO award BYU anything; they were free to select whoever they considered most deserving and the majority chose BYU.

"Barry Switzer and Bryant Gumbel are just two of the national figures who questioned the legitimacy of BYU's claim."

Barry Switzer had an obvious conflict of interest and Bryant Gumbel was in a vocal, but small minority.

"in 2008 Utah beat FOUR nationally ranked teams, including three from prominent BCS conferences."

And who ranked those four nationally ranked teams? The exact same voters who placed Utah 2nd and 4th in the final polls.

As much as it pains our jealous little brothers to admit, BYU's 1984 National Championship was every bit as legitimate as any other national champion since 1936, when the first AP National Champion was chosen in exactly the same way BYU was chosen.

Utah finished a distant 2nd in the AP Poll and only 4th in the Coaches Poll, the poll used to crown the bcs champion.

The case is closed, but unfortunately for U, nothing's changed.

SportsFan
Orem, UT

gored

"Utah went 5-7 against BCS competition, including a win over BYU. It would logically follow that BYU would be lucky to go 4-8 if they had played Utah's schedule."

BYU beat Utah State, a team that Utah couldn't beat, so it would logically follow that BYU would do better against Utah's schedule than Utah did.

I do find it funny that Utah fans have had to resort to blaming their schedule for Utah's ineptitude. Tell me, how tough, really, was that 10-loss Colorado team U lost to, a team that hadn't won a road game in three years?

Rockwell
Baltimore, MD

gored

"Barry Switzer and Bryant Gumbel are just two of the national figures who questioned the legitimacy of BYU's claim."

BYU didn't "claim" anything.

BYU was selected 1984 National Champion by FIVE major national organizations that are all wholly separate and distinct from BYU.

Except for winning and impressing the voters in the process, BYU didn't have anything to do with the selection process.

Other schools and jealous individuals like our friends on the hill can "claim" whatever they want to, but BYU is the only legitimate 1984 National Champion recognized by all of the major selecting organizations.

Thlete
Draper, UT

@DeepBlue and other silly Y fans.

That's some fancy stat dancing that you are doing to ignore the head-to-head results of your team against Utah lately. Seems so convincing when you twist your numbers to try to show why BYU has been better than Utah recently, until whoops, you look at the actual final scores the last 3 years. Sorry, try (and fail) again in September.

Solomon Levi
Alpine, UT

"I mean, it's been repeated over and over here that BYU played a very average schedule in 1984"

pot and kettle GoRed

Utah fans brag incessantly about their first "BCS busting team", yet who did Utah beat in 2004 that made the Utes BCS worthy?

Who did Utah beat during the regular season that was as good as the #24 Air Force(8-4) team that BYU in 1984?

Utah beat three regular season opponents with winning records in 2004, none with better than a 7-5 record.

Naval Vet
Philadelphia, PA

SportsFan:

"BYU beat Utah State, a team that Utah couldn't beat, so it would logically follow that BYU would do better against Utah's schedule than Utah did."

Actually, it would logically follow that the Indy-WACers would have done WORSE. Note:

Utah went 2-2 vs. Wash. St, Ore. St, Utah St, and our little brother down in Provostan. Similarly, little brother went 2-2 vs. Wash. St, Ore. St, Utah St, and big brother on the Hill. However, Utah beat WSU by more points, lost to OSU by fewer, and the won head-to-head matchup. All little brother did was beat a team at home that the Utes lost to -- in OT -- on the road.

This body of work supports that between our two programs, Utah was the better team. And as the better team, that suggests you would have done WORSE than 5-7 had you played the same schedule.

skywalker
Palo Alto, CA

Thlete

No need to twist numbers to prove anything; facts are facts. One game does not a season make. And winning two out of three of games on the final play of the game doesn't prove anything.

Head-to-head wins are over-rated.

In basketball, it's not uncommon for teams to split a home-and-home series. The only reason it doesn't happen more in football is because teams seldom play each other twice in the same season.

That's why final records and final rankings are much more reliable measuring sticks in determining which team is better in a given season. Even Utah fans recognize this, EXCEPT when it comes to comparing Utah to BYU.

If Utah finishes this coming season 11-1 and BYU finishes 1-11, but BYU beats Utah head-to-head, there's absolutely no way Utah fans would say that BYU was a better team than Utah.

You know it; and we know it.

So you can stop with the silly argument that one game out of twelve offers any definitive proof concerning which team is better in any particular season.

Uteology
East Salt Lake City, Utah

"The environment at Utah is primed to suit any person whether they’re Caucasian, African-American or Polynesian, it doesn’t matter."

So true!!

Go UTES!

talkinsports
Gilbert, AZ

Naval Vet

LOL at your spin.

BYU destroyed Georgia Tech (41-17) on the road, a team that easily handled USC (21-7) in the Sun Bowl, and as you're well aware, USC beat Utah (31-21) on Utah's home turf.

If Utah had played BYU's schedule, the Utes would still have lost at least 7 games - to Utah State, Oregon State, Boise State, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, San Jose State, and San Diego State - and that's assuming Utah qualified for a bowl by beating BYU in LES. And let's not forget the possibility of Utah losing to a team like NM St, since the Utes have demonstrated a propensity for being able to lose to ANYBODY - see 10-loss UNLV and 10-loss Colorado.

Sagarin's final rankings say it all.

BYU #26
Utah #61

Try as U might, the PACy WACers just aren't as good as their big brother.

The final rankings prove it.

Utefanz
Roy, UT

I am not going to deligitamize BYU's NC. They got it. But to compare the pre-BSC to the BSC era football is rediculous. BYU beat no one in the top 25, I am purposely excluding Pitt as they went 3-7. Utah beat three top 25 teams, BYU, TCU, and Alabama. I puposely excluded Michigan for the same reason I did for Pitt. If the BSC used the same critera as they did in 1984, Utah has a NC. Utah didn't have a shot to win because of what bowl game they played due to rule. They could not jusmp above #2 in the final polls. And no the Coaches poll doesn't choose the NC in the BSC era. The NC game does. So if you are going to compare apples to apples, you have to use BYU's 1984 season to Utah's 2008 season and Utah had a way better resume than BYU.

Utefanz
Roy, UT

As too which team is better, BYU has had better records than Utah for the past two seasons. However it has been against the weakest opponets that Utah would have beaten aswell. If record was all that matter Utah would have been NC in 2008 and teams from the SEC would be rank lower than they are. The polls are peoples opinions not based in fact.

Utah is a better team than BYU. With a quaterback that has no business in Div-1 football, and a new inexperienced OC Utah beat BYU and the end was closer than the game really was. With an actual quaterback and OC we demolished you in your own home. Yes you have had a better record, but you are not playing USC, UCLA, ect every week. You have two maybe three games that are difficult and then you have the rest with bottom dwellars. If any team deserves to be the best in the state it is USU. They were better than both BYU and Utah last year.

deductive reasoning
Arlington, VA

Utefanz

BYU 1984 beat Air Force(8-4) which finished #24 in the Final AP Poll; although not "technically" ranked because the AP Poll only included the Top 20 in 1984, Air Force did finish in the top 25 teams in the Final AP poll.

Using "BCS rules" for 2008 is a cop out. USC won the AP National Championship in 2003 WITHOUT playing in the BCS championship game.

USC and BYU both won AP National Championships in 2003 and 1984 under the exact same criteria - by being voted #1 in the Final AP Poll by a nation-wide panel of sportswriters.

---------

Naval Vet

Logic would suggest that if BYU was capable of beating #16/#17 Utah St., and only losing at #4/#3 Notre Dame by 3, only losing at #18/#14 Boise St. by 1, and only losing at #21/#21 San Jose St. by 6, that the Cougars could have beaten any and likely most of the 9 unranked teams on Utah's schedule.

DeepBlue
Anaheim, CA

The concept that our from friends on the hill don't seem to understand is that college football history isn't created in a season-by-season bubble. National Championship and Heisman Trophy seasons are seldom the result of one exceptional season. Teams and players usually have to develop some "street cred" in previous seasons, before the national media will take them seriously.

BYU's 1984 National Championship really began on September 8, 1979 when Marc Wilson, playing three days after an appendectomy, led BYU to an 18-17 win at Texas A&M. BYU's quest for an undefeated season came up just inches short when BYU's chip shot FG attempt hit the upright on the final play of the game and BYU lost to Indiana(8-4) 37-38. BYU finished the season 11-1 ranked #19/#16.

In 1980, BYU opened the season with a disappointing 21-25 loss at New Mexico, then reeled off 12 straight wins, culminating in Miracle Bowl win over the famed Pony Express. BYU finished the season 12-1 ranked #20/#20.

BYU beat Washington St(8-3-1) in the 1981 Holiday Bowl to finish the season 11-2 ranked #13/#11.

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