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Comments about ‘Utes football recruiting: Polynesian players prosper at Utah’

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Published: Friday, May 17 2013 8:50 a.m. MDT

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DeepBlue
Anaheim, CA

gored

If you know anything about college football, you know that BYU was the most heavily scrutinized national champion in the last 40 years.

After rising to #1 in late November, BYU's record and opponents were carefully scrutinized for over a month, along with the records and opponents of every legitimate contender, yet after over a month of heavy scrutiny, BYU was judged by all five major selecting organizations to be more deserving of winning the 1984 National Championship than any other contender.

Washington and Nebraska have only themselves to blame for BYU only having to beat Michigan in the National Championship game.

btw, 8 months after BYU beat Michigan in the Holiday Bowl to win the 1984 National Championship, BYU destroyed Washington 31-3

U 90
Corona, CA

@DeepBlue "How do you know that Michigan(6-6) wasn't a Top 25 team and that Air Force wasn't a Top 10 team?"

Here's how we know AF was not a top 10 team.... they weren't ranked in the top 10. Regarding Michigan, when was the last time a 6-6 team was ranked in the top 25?

I'll give you the NC, BYU earned it based on pre-BCS standards. Are you man enough to admit it was the weakest NC schedule of all-time and not even close to what Utah accomplished in 2008?

U 90
Corona, CA

@Deep Blue "8 months after BYU beat Michigan in the Holiday Bowl to win the 1984 National Championship, BYU destroyed Washington 31-3"

1984 = Apples
1985 = Oranges

BYU beat UW in 1985 which somehow means BYU was better than UW in 1984? That's some really weak logic.

DeepBlue
Anaheim, CA

U 90

"That's really neat, but BYU lost to all of those teams."

No they didn't. BYU BEAT #16/#17 Utah State, and lost to three others, all on the road, by a total of 10 points. BYU also destroyed ACC division champ Georgia Tech (a team that easily handled USC in the Sun Bowl), and BYU beat MWC tri-champion SDSU(9-4). Who did U beat besides BYU?

Unlike Utah, which lost to the only two Top 25 teams they played and didn't beat a single PAC 12 team with a winning record.

It's laughable that the ONLY decent wins the Utes have had since joining the PAC, are a couple of wins over "irrelevant" Independent BYU.

Bottom Line during the Independent/PAC era

Top 25 Finishes
BYU 1
Utah 0

Bowl Wins
BYU 2
Utah 1

Losing Seasons
BYU 0
Utah 1

2012 unranked/#26 BYU(8-5) < unranked/#61 Utah(5-7)
2011 #25/#26/#34 BYU(10-3) < unranked/#39 Utah(8-5)

DeepBlue
Anaheim, CA

U90

If you eliminate BYU's extra season-ending game with Utah State(1-10), which did absolutely NOTHING to improve BYU's ranking since BYU was already ranked #1 before they played the Aggies, there's very little difference between BYU's 1984 schedule and Utah's 2004 schedule, in fact, BYU's schedule was arguably stronger than Utah's schedule.

BYU 1984 beat four regular season opponents with winning records: Tulsa(6-5), Hawaii(7-4), #24 Air Force(8-4), and Utah(6-5-1).

Utah 2004 beat three regular season opponents with winning records: Texas A&M(7-5), New Mexico(7-5), and Wyoming(7-5), none of them as good as Air Force or Hawaii.

Combined records of BYU's regular season opponents not including Utah State (54-69-1)
Combined records of Utah's regular season opponents (53-72)

It's interesting that Utah fans never question the worthiness of Utah's 2004 bcs busting team, despite playing a regular season schedule that was arguably worse than BYU's 1984 regular season schedule.

-----

BYU was better than Washington in 1984 AND 1985!

Washington was given the opportunity to prove they were better in 1984 and passed.

DeepBlue
Anaheim, CA

U 90

Here's how we know that BYU was National Champion in 1984, they were ranked #1.

Here's how we know that Utah wasn't National Champion in 2008, they were ranked #2.

Of course, if you insist on going "bcs era"; the Utes have never finished higher than #4 in the Coaches Poll, the poll that officially crowns the bcs championship game winner #1.

Snack PAC
Olympus Cove, Utah

gored / U 90

It's laughable that you conveniently cite rankings as gospel ONLY when they conform to your own biased view of the world.

U 90
Corona, CA

Deep,

I conceded the NC, and you avoided the point that BYU hasn't come close to putting together the body of work Utah did in 2008. And you avoided answering the question of whether or not BYU has ever beat more that one team in a season that finished the year ranked.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

byu--

Texas Christian, Boise State, and Utah have been tearing it up over the last decade, but in 1984 Brigham Young did something none of those other "Little Big" teams have even gotten a legitimate shot at: they finished #1.

Unfortunately, BYU '84 differs from those other teams in another way too: they did not play a single ranked opponent. The only so-called "national champion" that didn't (though Oklahoma came very close in 1956).

BYU's 1984 opponents went 61-85-3, placing their schedule 96th amongst 98 division 1A schools.

And yet their performance was as weak as their schedule.

They won five games by a touchdown or less, from a 20-14 win at 3-7-1 Pitt in their opener to a 24-17 win against 6-6 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl-- by far the worst bowl opponent ever faced by a so-called "national champion."

How bad was Michigan? They finished 6th in the Big Ten, and the Big Ten was a horrid 12-15 against nonconference opponents and 1-5 in bowl games. The only conference in the country that was as bad as the Big 10 was the WAC itself.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

....So how did BYU end up #1?

Well, for one thing, BYU was greatly aided by the weekly upset chaos of 1984. Look at the teams in the top 20 and you see only one team with just 1 loss, and one other with a loss and tie. Everyone else had at least 2 losses. The 1-loss team, Washington, lost the Rose Bowl bid because Southern Cal beat them, so they were not viewed as a conference champion (though they were, sharing the title with USC). And the 9-1-1 team, Florida, was hit with probation in September for massive cheating, and no one wanted to reward a "cheater." So the timing was right.

Of course, in 2007 a 2-loss LSU team was rated higher than an unbeaten Hawaii team that looked a lot like BYU '84, so in the end, what put BYU over the top in 1984 was a zeitgeist thing. Or maybe a mass psychosis thing.

In any case, it had never happened before, and it has not happened since, even though there have been quite a few better "Little Big Teams" than BYU '84 before and since.

AZUTE1
Mesa, AZ

During this current BCS Era, both UTAH/byu have reached 11 bowl games out of 15 seasons.

UTAH has gone 10-1, twice going undefeated.

byu has struggled to reach .500 and above while going an impressive 6-5, never achieving undefeated and never achieving what UTAH's achieved twice, the 1st time when it was more difficult to do so, a BCS Bowl Game. Even Hawaii/Northern Illinois have each achieved a BCS Bowl Game. Yet, it forever eludes byu.

And then there's the expected annual loss to UTAH.

Boy, the '80s seem like they occurred centuries ago, don't you think?

Snack PAC
Olympus Cove, Utah

AZUTE1

How many of Utah's bcs era bowl winning teams actually finished in the Top 25?

Let's review:

bcs era

Top 25 Finishes
BYU 6
Utah 5

Top 15 Finishes
BYU 3
Utah 2

Conference Championships
BYU 4
Utah 4

Bronco/Kyle era

Top 25 Finishes
BYU 5
Utah 3

Top 15 Finishes
BYU 3
Utah 1

Conference Championships
BYU 2
Utah 1

It's quite obvious, that a mediocre Utah team beating another mediocre team in a bowl doesn't mean much on a national scale. U still weren't good enough to be ranked.

Snack PAC
Olympus Cove, Utah

AZUTE1

As far as BYU's 1984 NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, BYU was greatly aided by three very impressive goal-line stands at Pittsburgh, at Air Force, and at Hawaii, and by one of the gutsiest performances by an entire team in the Holiday Bowl, where BYU fought back from a deficit to beat Michigan, despite having an injured quarterback who could barely stand after sustaining a first half knee injury.

BYU did what no other team did in 1984; they avoided losing to lesser teams like Kansas, Miami, Michigan, Nebraska, USC and UCLA.

BYU was aided by other teams losing, but isn't that the case with EVERY national champion?

There's never been a national champion that's beaten every one of their closest competitors.

BYU would have gladly played Washington or Nebraska in the Holiday Bowl, so why whine about BYU "not playing anybody", when it was the Huskies and Huskers who refused to accept an invitation to play the #1 team? If anything, it was those two teams, especially Washington, who tried to "back into" a national championship by playing a lesser team in a bowl.

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

I really enjoy the utah "fan" hypocrisy of trying to pretend your opponents ranking somehow matters while your own ranking does not.

LOL!

Snack PAC
Olympus Cove, Utah

AZUTE1

"How bad was Michigan?"

If Michigan had beaten Ohio St in their regular season finale, the Wolverines would have been playing in the Rose Bowl instead of the Holiday Bowl.

The Wolverines were ranked #14 in the pre-season poll and rose as high as #3. Michigan was ranked #13 in early October, before a rash of injuries took their toll on the Wolverines. The vast majority of those injured players were back and healthy when Michigan played BYU in the Holiday Bowl.

-----

Summary of AP Rankings

BYU has been ranked in the Final AP Poll 17 times, in 25 out of 77 seasons (32%), and in 22% of 1053 polls

Seasons Ranked

1974 1977 1979 1980 1981 1983 1984 1985 1986 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1996 1997 1999 2001 2006 2007 2008 2009 2012

Utah has been ranked in the Final AP Poll 5 times, in 8 out of 77 seasons (10%), and in 7% of 1053 polls

Seasons Ranked

1947 1994 1996 2003 2004 2008 2009 2010

During the bcs era, BYU has been ranked in 7 of 15 seasons; Utah has been ranked in 5 of 15 seasons

CG
Orem, UT

Snack PAC

Check your math; how could a team as "dominant" as the Utes claim they've been, only have ranked in the Final AP Poll FIVE times, while the team they claim they've "dominated" has been ranked in the Final AP Poll SEVENTEEN times?

A three-to-one lifetime domination in the polls pretty much proves which team has really been dominant.

Duckhunter

Well said. Utah fans hypocritically obsess about opponent rankings because they have so few rankings of their own.

Cougsndawgs
West Point , UT

AZUTE:
"How bad was Michigan?"
Well it depends on whether you're talking an injury riddled but talented 6-6 Michigan in 1984 that played BYU in the holiday bowl, with BYU winning the NC...OR the 3-9 Michigan in 2008 that was arguably their worst team in a half century, that Utah beat by a mere 2 points to propel them from unranked to #17...how quickly ute fans forget. U beat a far worse Michigan team in your so-called best year by a DUECE.

anti BCS
Anaheim, CA

Seasons Ranked - BYU

1974 1977 1979 1980 1981 1983 1984 1985 1986 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1996 1997 1999 2001 2006 2007 2008 2009 2012

Seasons Ranked - Utah

1947 1994 1996 2003 2004 2008 2009 2010

Final AP Poll - BYU SEVENTEEN times (the first in 1977)

Final AP Poll - Utah FIVE times (the first in 1994)

LOL!

Duckhunter
Highland, UT

So tell me azute or gored, how is it that it matters and is legitimate if the team utah is playing is ranked #9, or #22, or #15, yet somehow if BYU is ranked #1 that doesn't matter and isn't legitimate? What makes all the other teams rankings legitimate while BYU's ranking is not legitimate? The pollsters come by the rankings the same way for everyone, they look at who they play and what their record is and then give them a ranking based on their own analysis.

So why is it that when the pollsters say ASU is ranked 15th, or Georgia Tech is ranked 20th, or any other team is ranked, and utah plays them it shows how good utah is because they played them, or maybe beat them, but when all those exact same pollsters rank BYU a particular ranking it really doesn't count, or is "illegitimate, because....? Is it because jealous utah "fans" don't like it?

Why is it that when utah plays a "ranked" team that team is the real deal yet when bYU is ranked they are not (unless utah played them of course)?

PAC12Fan
South Jordan, UT

Back to the article. It's great that Utah is doing so well recruiting Poly players. It appears they feel very comfortable in SLC. Love it.

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