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Ryan Teeples: Ziggy Ansah's story priceless, evidence BYU football independence is working

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  • steeleute Sandy, UT
    May 29, 2013 7:47 p.m.

    Y's Little Brother:
    You will find out the hard way this year that BYU is NOT going in the opposite direction of Utah. You are going into the hardest schedule in school history. You MUST have talent and depth to compete against better teams and you do not have that. Don't get me wrong, my Utes don't have the talent and depth to compete for the Pac 12 championship but they have steadily been building their depth and getting better talent in recruiting classes. Don't believe me? Just check the numbers buddy, Utah has averaged a 36 ranked class the past two years and BYU has average a 65 ranked class. If you think your less talented squads are going to propel BYU football closer to a BCS game than Utah, then you need to wake up and smell the Roses. Utah went 8-5 in 2012 and pulled in a 28 ranked class. BYU went 10-3 and pulled in a 61 rated class according to RIVALs. The only thing that has gone in the "opposite direction" is the talent and recruiting. Don't believe that more talent equals more wins? Just look at the top 5 teams recruiting classes

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 21, 2013 6:47 a.m.

    Just to further clarify, I don't mean it was wrong to imply that you exaggerated. I mean to say that the exaggeration implied, or declared, by so many Ute fans here on this story, that somehow we BYU fans think Bronco should get ALL or even MOST of the credit is wrong.

    But why should we think you (all) would imply that? Do we not regularly hear that Coach Whit has placed (insert number here) players in the NFL, Bronco has not, therefore Utah is clearly superior to BYU, a state-funded education is better than one supported with tithing, and the sun never shines in Provo?

    Well, I may have exaggerated a little there...

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 20, 2013 5:24 p.m.

    MyPerspective

    "The Utes have indeed put a lot of players in the NFL the last several years which account, in large measure their 2 (two) BSC wins and invitation to an elite conference."

    Utah's NFL players may have helped the Utes win a couple of bcs bowls, but Utah's invitation to the PAC had nothing to do with those bcs wins.

    Colorado's five-year record preceding their invitation to the PAC BEFORE Utah was invited is proof of that:

    2005: 7-6
    2006: 2-10
    2007: 6-7
    2008: 5-7
    2009: 3-9
    Total: 23-39

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 20, 2013 2:09 p.m.

    MyPerspective
    Salt Lake City, UT

    Okay, the exaggeration, whether implied by you or not, is incorrect.

    Here's something you can take my word for: if the Utes under perform this year like they did last year, Coach Wittingham will be one of the best ex coaches you ever had. Part of playing with the big boys is a low tolerance for losing. And big boy spin doesn't get it done.

    By the way, nice dodging the question. All that talent going to waste. Such a shame.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 20, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    Y Grad / Y Dad:

    It was YOU who introduced the exaggeration..."[implied ALL]"

    However, since you brought it up...read the posts on this thread and then tell me your exaggeration is not correct.

    The Utes have indeed put a lot of players in the NFL the last several years which account, in large measure their 2 (two) BSC wins and invitation to an elite conference. Yes, the result last year was disappointing but hey, it's a new year and we'll see what happens. Win or lose, the Pac-12 is a fantastic experience...you'll just have to take our word for it. lol.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    May 20, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    junkgeek

    "Success follows the player, not the program."

    So you're saying that Weber State can take credit for all of the NFL players who played for BYU and Utah and Utah St and USC and Alabama and Notre Dame and Texas, because those players would have been just as successful if they'd played at Weber State?

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 19, 2013 7:26 p.m.

    MyPerspective
    Salt Lake City, UT

    Fair critique, but you are using an exaggeration to make your point:

    "I'm just wondering...if the byu coaching staff gets [implied ALL] the credit for the success of a player who was not recruited by Mendenhall and played less than two years; who gets the blame for the dozens of players recruited by Bronco and spent 4-5 years in the byu program and never got the slightest sniff at the NFL?"

    Neither I nor anyone else said or implied that Bronco deserves ALL the credit, but we have defended against those who insist that he deserves NONE of the credit, or worse, that he deserves blame for holding Ziggy back.

    As to the second point, ask the people who insist on trumpeting that BYU can only get zero to two star cast-offs. I would guess that Bronco also deserves some credit for doing as well as he does with what he is able to recruit.

    With all the NFL talent that Utah has produced, who gets the credit for their underperformance these past two seasons, victories against BYU notwithstanding?

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    May 19, 2013 2:14 p.m.

    junkgeek

    "Success follows the player, not the program."

    So why are players constantly identified by the college and professional teams they played for?

    And why are college and professional teams constantly identified by the players who played for those teams?

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    May 19, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    Success follows the player, not the program. This kid could have come from Utah State and they'd be fawning over him.

    Money is no justification for independence.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 18, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    I was just on Rivals to get a status on how recruiting classes for Pac-12 teams are shaping up. I scrolled way down the list and noticed that byu has five recruits on board and is ranked #54. So I looked up byu's 2013 recruiting class and, oh my goodness...

    I'm sorry, Mr. Teeples...seems to me THAT is the real measure of how well independence is working.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 18, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    @Caleb

    To a Professional athlete, his job is essential to him and is family.
    As much so as any policeman, doctor, nurse or fireman.
    It's not up to you to determine who passes the test.

    And here's a little secret, the LDS Church even accepts the tithes and offerings from those pro athletes as well.

    You're being judgmental and it is without foundation.
    The late great Bruce R. McKonkie once said..
    "The Church ahs no need for the fanatic"

    Tread carefully.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 18, 2013 1:06 p.m.

    I would LOVE to see caleb turn down 18.5 million dollars over 5-years with an 11.9 million dollar signing bonus (plus a deal with Nike) just because it would require him to work on the Sabbath. It's easy to talk big on a message board, but I'm betting if you wouldn't have the same attitude if you were sitting at a table with that contract staring you in the face....

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 18, 2013 7:00 a.m.

    Wiscougar
    As someone who has watched him and his development closely I can tell you that the coaching at BYU did a masterful job with him.

    Y Grad / Y Dad
    He was very nearly a different athlete at the start of the season and at the end. Idiots think he was born that way. He was developed, and just as fast as he could go.

    I'm just wondering...if the byu coaching staff gets the credit for the success of a player who was not recruited by Mendenhall and played less than two years; who gets the blame for the dozens of players recruited by Bronco and spent 4-5 years in the byu program and never got the slightest sniff at the NFL?

    Extolling Mendenhall's successes during the off season is great fun but we have all seen what byu fans do the first time Mendenhall utters those now familiar words..."we didn't execute at a high enough level."

  • Utah'95 FPO, AE
    May 17, 2013 7:27 p.m.

    I'm as happy as the next guy for Ziggy. His is a great story, and I wish him nothing but the best in his future, while in the NFL and after he quits playing football.

    But I'm not sure that his story is "evidence BYU football independence is working." His talent and story would have caught national attention, NFL scouts would have known about him, even if BYU was still playing in the MWC.

    Ziggy's success, and BYU's independent status aren't as related as the author suggests.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    May 17, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    at Herbert Gravy - Jewish people observe their Sabbath on Saturday although they don't accept Jesus Christ as the Savior. Because Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, because salvation is available only through Him, and because He has said he wants his present Sabbath to be on Sunday, it seems to me like a bad idea to want to choose another day to have the Sabbath.

    I've heard of the LDS Church authorizing small groups of people in the Middle East to have a different day of the week for their Sabbath.

    And of course, there are other commandments that are more important and more serious than the Sabbath Day, so a person could abstain from secular work on the Sabbath but violate many other commandments on the other days of the week. A person could miss the sacrament ordinance on Sunday but attend the temple on other days of the week.

    But I think its a far safer approach to stick with what the church does. If your local LDS congregation has Sunday for its Sabbath and its sacrament meeting, you'd be much better off to correlate your personal Sabbath with that one.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    May 17, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    Is it OK to observe my Sabbath on a Saturday or on a Monday? Just asking.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 17, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    caleb, bless your heart, brother! Keeping the Sabbath day holy to me means I'm not going to watch sports on Sunday, on TV or especially live. Keeping the spirit of the Gospel means I'm not going to judge harshly someone who has chosen a career in professional sports.

    We worked closely with our children so that when the time came to make a decision about playing competitive sports on the Sabbath day, they would be able to make a good decision, meaning a decision that they arrived at the right way.

    I wish Ziggy the best of luck! I won't watch him play, and I'll try real hard to wait until Monday to read about how he did. He will probably bring more people into the light of the Gospel than I have, due to his stature. How it all plays out, I don't know. All I can know for sure is what I think is right and try to do that.

  • killarney Lincoln Park, IL
    May 17, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    Tilka

    "this article is really stretching facts to make a conclusion. Considering that Ziggy wouldn't have even started unless another player went down,"

    You don't know that.

    Ziggy was getting more and more playing time as the season progressed. The timing of the injury to another player did create a hole in the starting lineup that Ziggy was able to fill nicely, but that doesn't mean Ziggy wouldn't have soon been playing starter's minutes anyway.

    You can call it luck if you want, but as another blogger already posted,

    "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
    -- Darrell Royal

    If not for Bronco giving Ziggy the opportunity to prove that he could learn the game, and then Bronco and his staff teaching Ziggy how to play the game, Ziggy likely would have never played a down of football at any level.

    As with any professional athlete, Ziggy had to provide the physical skills and work effort, but it took training by his coaches to mold Ziggy's natural physical abilities into a professional football player.

  • I-am-I South Jordan, UT
    May 17, 2013 10:31 a.m.

    I can see where article is coming from. I don't think that independence and media "exposure" played in Ziggy's personal success as much as his great athleticism. I think BYU's independence is killing its ability to send players to the next level. Several BYU players that were not drafted signed with teams. One of these players is Romney Fuga. Fuga is at the present time is a better player than Ziggy. It's hard to compare the two for two reasons (1) Romney is primarily a run stopper (Ziggy is a pass rusher) and (2) BYU's scheme wasn't designed to showcase Romney's abilities. Romney was the foundation of that defense and an unsung hero. While independence appears to be helping the church and marginally so Ziggy, being in a conference probably would have been beneficial to players like Fuga, Hadley, Ogletree & Hansen. Being on an all conference team would have been nice to add to there resumes and would have given them clout in the NFL Draft. Ultimately an inability to draft good players means that good recruits will go elsewhere. I wouldn't expect a top 10 football team out of BYU any time soon.

  • Eliot Santaquin, UT
    May 17, 2013 10:25 a.m.

    What does Ansah's success and subsequent exposure have to do with Utah football? Why is Utah even part of the conversation? Given that many of Utah's athletes are LDS, doesn't it also make sense that their success would also cast a favorable light on the Mormon people?

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    May 17, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    @ Bluto - you're correct about the manuals and the light switch thing. But our church has put forth several manuals that expound on the commandment of keeping the Sabbath Day holy which clearly state that the Sabbath should not be a day for the typical recreation such as boating, skiing, and attending sporting events. See Teachings of the Latter-Day Prophets Spencer W. Kimball, Gospel Principles manual, and recent talks in Priesthood meeting by President Monson encouraging members not to play sports on Sunday. If a doctor or nurse works on Sunday then he/she usually helps heal the sick and afflicted. When a professional football player works on Sunday, he helps cause brain damage to his opponents and helps participate in a big distraction that distracts many other average joes from fully keeping the Sabbath Day holy. Playing football on Sundays for 15 or 16 weeks in a row in no way equates to a firefighter helping put out a fire on the Sabbath.

  • Tilka PORTLAND, OR
    May 17, 2013 9:21 a.m.

    this article is really stretching facts to make a conclusion. Considering that Ziggy wouldn't have even started unless another player went down, I think BYU is extremely lucky that this turned out the way it did. I wonder how many other quality players are in the program and not getting a chance to play because they don't measure up to the arbitrary standards that they have there for who will start and play.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    May 17, 2013 8:22 a.m.

    goducks

    "Ziggy's story has nothing to do with independence, or recruiting. It has everything to do with luck."

    "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."
    -- Darrell Royal

    BYU gave Ziggy the opportunity and helped prepare him.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 17, 2013 7:31 a.m.

    @Caleb

    You need a refresher course in the spirit of the law vs the letter.
    Nowhere in any Church manual will you be instructed on how many steps you can take or whether or not it's ok to turn a light switch on or off, on the Sabbath.

    In fact, keeping the Sabbath Day Holy, is the most ambiguous commandment of all, By Design.
    And btw, the ancient Sabbath actually began on Sundown Friday night.
    Do you want to go there?

    I come from a family of medical professionals...they have had to work on Sundays on occasion. As do policeman, fireman etc.

    Many times I've been called out by the Church to help with a flood or a fire or some other emergency, ON THE SABBATH!

    Church owned media pay employees, which work on the Sabbath.
    General Conference for example.

    Don't get caught up in the letter.
    And don't judge.
    The LDS don't subscribe to the orthodox view.

    This is an individual choice and not up to you.
    Eli Herring was projected to be a top 3 pick years ago.
    He chose not to play on Sundays. His choice....Not yours!

  • goducks SANTA CLARA, UT
    May 17, 2013 6:48 a.m.

    Ziggy's story has nothing to do with independence, or recruiting. It has everything to do with luck. BYU is extremely fortunate.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    May 16, 2013 10:30 p.m.

    @ phoenix - well me turning a light on does not cause a power line to go down. if it falls down on Sunday they in many cases in could wait until Monday to repair it. People survived for centuries without electricity flowing into their homes. I don't know that much about dairy farmers and their work on Sunday and this was an article about a football player not a dairy farmer. I hope Ziggy tries to go to church when he can and tries to stay a nice person but he would do far more good in the world by choosing a profession that lets him keep the Sabbath Day holy and help build up a strong ward then he will by encouraging people to watch football for hours on end on the Sabbath Day.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    May 16, 2013 9:54 p.m.

    caleb in new york

    "noone has to work on Sunday because I flush a toilet or turn on a light"

    Tell that to the utility worker who's called out to repair a ruptured pipeline or a downed power line on a Sunday.

    While I applaud Eli's decision to pass on playing in the NFL, I don't judge other professional athletes who have chosen an occupation that unfortunately requires them to work on the Sabbath. Why single out athletes for their choice of professions, when other professions, like dairy farming, also require Sunday work.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    May 16, 2013 9:32 p.m.

    @ truth machine - noone has to work on Sunday because I flush a toilet or turn on a light. We have been asked not to shop on Sunday. The entertainment industry doesn't really match up with the other good examples you've given. Ziggy just was at college for a few years - he has other options besides having to play in the NFL. I live in the mission field. We see people every year, especially new members, who fall away from the church and lose their faith because they start to work on Sunday. Playing in a professional football game on Sunday is quite a bit different than a stroll through a wheat field.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2013 9:00 p.m.

    caleb in new york

    Before you get too self-righteous, just remember, every time you turn on a light, flush the toilet, adjust the thermostat, drive to church on a snowy day, get sick, stay in a hotel, fly somewhere, watch general conference, or basically just breath on a Sunday, you are contributing to someone, somewhere having to work on the Sabbath, often because they CHOSE A PROFESSION that requires them to work on the Sabbath.

    When my brother was going to college, he worked weekends as a security guard at the Ogden Temple!

    Don't be so quick to judge someone as a Sabbath breaker simply because they take a stroll threw a wheat field on the Sabbath.

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    May 16, 2013 7:19 p.m.

    Boy, some people just cannot stand any degree of success enjoyed by BYU.

    You Bronco bashers may want to go back and watch the earliest film available on Ziggey. He was very nearly a different athlete at the start of the season and at the end. Idiots think he was born that way. He was developed, and just as fast as he could go.

    There WAS a number one drafted, came from a small college. THAT'S a big story. Did it get much air time?

    I rest my case.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    May 16, 2013 6:14 p.m.

    "Your bcs busters are old news and being a bottom dweller in the PAC isn't nearly as exciting as Utah fans like to pretend it is."

    Amen! Last place in virtually every sport too.

    " Independence is a complete fraud, but this type of reading does provide me with a convenient excuse to grab popcorn and kick it in my Lazy-Boy."

    Hahahahha! These comments are so hilarious. If you didn't care, why would you read and post. Can we say, obsession??!! I think we can.

    Fact: Jimmer and Ansah have provided more exposure than anyone could have dreamed. Jimmer national player of the year and Ansah top five pick. Both getting significant air time on ESPN, including special stories just about them with nice music to add to it. As we saw by the WF guy who transferred because he first heard about Jimmer, BYU is getting exposure. These stories are getting the word out on BYU. Thanks ESPN for helping BYU reach its mission! It's driving the obsessed anti-BYU fellers insane,and we love it!

    BYU is in great shape for the future!

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    May 16, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    @Brave Sir Robin - "Being able to draw a rash conclusion like the one drawn in this article without testing any other hypothesis is disingenuous. In fact, in psychology it has a name: Experimenter's bias."

    Lol. Next time you may want to click on the science tab instead of the sports tab. But I will look forward to your hypothetical, pyshological analysis of the Utes this season. Hopeful your results won't be disingenuous.

  • caleb in new york Glen Cove, NY
    May 16, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    The story does have a somewhat sad ending though in that Ziggy has chosen the path of fame and fortune over devoted discipleship. Participating in the entertainment industry almost always on Sundays and drawing people away from Christian service on Sundays does not further the mission of BYU or the LDS church. Not all fame and fortune and publicity is useful in helping people to become more Christlike. The Sabbath day is a commandment even for someone offered millions of dollars to break the commandment. I hope Ziggy does a lot of good in life but Eli Herring is a better example for society of how a member of the LDS church, even a famous athlete, should act.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    May 16, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    Got to love our Independence!

    Go Cougars!

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 16, 2013 4:41 p.m.

    Y's little brother
    Sandy, UT
    chrissy

    CBSSports is already projecting Kyle Van Noy as the 11th pick in the 2014 draft.

    Sorry, no Utes mentioned on the 2014 Big Board

    Unfortunately for U, the tide is turning as the two programs head in opposite directions.

    BYU back to national prominence.

    Utah back to conference also ran, infrequent bowl game participant.

    ____________

    You don't go back to national prominence with a miserable record against ranked teams the past several years. Hello BYU!

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 16, 2013 4:38 p.m.

    Eddie
    Syracuse, UT
    I think that many people are really looking at not only this story but the whole BYU thing in the wrong way. Too many people on the hill think only football in the eyes of the pac-12....money, money, money. BYU and the Church look at it through the eyes of exposure for the Church. Football, the game and its success is way down the list of what they want to achieve. BYU has taken the high road and over time will become very successful in their goals. Most of u need to step out of the football box and take off your crimson (or whatever color u are using now) glasses and see things as they really are. BYU is making a huge success of independence and over time will see things grow and progress to make not only BYU but the Church more successful than anyone has ever dreamed.

    Don't believe me? Just watch ! ! !

    True success is in the eyes of the beholder. Success is not being on the bottom of a major conference.

    ____________

    And what about BYU TV and its world wide exposure? Yet BYU took the money from ESPN.

  • Elmer Fudd Sandy, Utah
    May 16, 2013 4:26 p.m.

    "Ziggy Ansah's story priceless, evidence BYU football independence is working"

    Just another story from the DNews sugar coating independence as something better than what it really is.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    May 16, 2013 4:11 p.m.

    Also, Ziggy gave us so much great publicity. Big time D-line recruits are lining up so they can play in the NFL too.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    May 16, 2013 4:08 p.m.

    Ziggy just proves Bronco is an awesome recruiter. Not only did he find him all the way in Africa but he used him extensively.
    Ziggy is a monster and this just shows how awesome independence is. If we were in a league, there is no way we could have recruited Ziggy.

  • mindgames Aurora, CO
    May 16, 2013 3:15 p.m.

    Success comes in many packages. The package that BYU has places them in the ESPN spotlight and so far it ahs been a benefit for BYU. It could get much better with a great season or two and it could go down with a poor season, but so far this is a great journey.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    May 16, 2013 2:45 p.m.

    AZUTE1

    "Independence is a complete fraud, "

    Based on what, your own jealous BYU-hating opinion?

    Despite your over-inflated opinion of yourself, the world does not revolve around U.

    In fact, the rest of the college football world views Utah's wins over BYU as so insignificant in the larger picture, that BYU still consistently finishes ahead of the Utes in the final rankings.

    It's gotta be tough when the only significant accomplishments you've had since joining the PAC are a couple of wins over BYU, yet nobody except the kids on the hill seems to care.

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    The pouting and cheap shots from the trolls scream jealousy. While I don't read ute or Aggie articles, I hope that BYU fans don't make such foolish remarks.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 16, 2013 2:38 p.m.

    Danish American:
    You may be right about Stanford and California but do you have evidence that BYU was black balled by them or the PAC 12? BYU isn't in the PAC 12 (not sure they would want to be) because they aren't a teir one research institution and because they are a very conservative school which the other universities of the PAC 12 aren't. We know those facts for sure...whether there was religious bigotry involved isn't so clear, but to say it was is an unfounded accusation.

  • Danish American Payson, UT
    May 16, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    Chris B: I'm glad that Utah has the chance to be in the PAC 12. Good for them, good for their fans. Whether or not they will ever play for a National Championship remains to be seen. However, you are also members of a conference that practices religious bigotry. The Presidents of Stanford and California black balled BYU because of religion.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 16, 2013 2:21 p.m.

    @Brave Sir Robin
    The argument you are making is disingenuous also. Plenty of studies and research is done without regard to "alternative" hypotheses, because alternative hypotheses aren't feasible or possible to study (such is the case here). Most research lists this under "recommendations" or "limitations" at the end of their research. It doesn't invalidate the research they've done, only points to changes that can be done for further evaluations, or limitations (like inability to test other variables) inherent in their research. In other words they don't disregard the evidence in front of them simply because they can't study some of the other variables, which is what you're suggesting. The evidence points to BYU having increased exposure because of espn, and that exposure is a function of their independence, because without it there would be no contract with espn. Therefore, BYUs independence was a major factor in ziggys exposure and rise to prominence. Are there other variables? Of course, but that doesn't diminish the evidence suggesting that independence has been good to BYU and Ziggy. All that said, you were accurate in your statements to talkinsports and the fallacy he presented.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 16, 2013 2:21 p.m.

    bradleyc
    Layton, UT

    "Great article. Independence Rocks! BYU controls its destiny and never has to play Utah again unless we want to. Awesome way to be."

    Losing 3 straight to us, 4 of 5, 8 of 11 and being down to us overall, 56-34-4, I wouldn't ever want to play against us ever again, as well. Well put!!!!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 16, 2013 2:07 p.m.

    These articles merely serve to feed the MYTH that's byu football. Independence is a complete fraud, but this type of reading does provide me with a convenient excuse to grab popcorn and kick it in my Lazy-Boy. Thanks!!!!

  • bradleyc Layton, UT
    May 16, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    Great article. Independence Rocks! BYU controls its destiny and never has to play Utah again unless we want to. Awesome way to be.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    May 16, 2013 1:41 p.m.

    Rather than saying "independence is working" how about changing it to, "independence is not NOT working"? Just wondering.

  • WA_Alum&Dad Marysville, WA
    May 16, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    I have to agree with aceroinox: So far, I don't see how any mythical invite to the Big 12 would have in any measurable way been better than independence in football. And with all the churn in conference alignment, standing out of that pond and watching the water move is better than trying to swim in it right now.

    Ziggy represents everything I love about BYU. It went through me just like he said it went through him. For someone who lives outside the I-15 bubble, BYUtv & ESPN has been fan-tastic.

    And don't forget little hill-dwellers, Star would have played for BYU if he had made the grades. He said so himself.

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2013 12:58 p.m.

    timid sparrow

    Bottom line little brother is that Ziggy was the most talked about story in the NFL draft this year and BYU gained tremendous positive exposure because of the story.

    Nobody, except our jealous little friends on the hill, cares to what degree BYU was responsible for Ziggy's success, but the fact remains, that BYU was responsible for making Ziggy's story possible.

    You can claim that Ziggy would have been just as successful at Utah, but you have absolutely no evidence to prove that Kyle would have even given Ziggy a chance to be on the team.

    We know its tough, but you'll just have to get used to the reality that Utah's 15 minutes of fame are in the past. Your bcs busters are old news and being a bottom dweller in the PAC isn't nearly as exciting as Utah fans like to pretend it is.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    May 16, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    @talkinsports

    I don't think you understand how the scientific method works. Star and Ziggy aren't the same person so their "exposure" can't be compared, just like how you can't compare their stats on the football field because they don't play the same position. Ziggy has a "rags to riches" story that Star doesn't have, and Ziggy is a relatively new arrival on the high-level football scene, unlike Star.

    Again, we can't turn back time, insert Ziggy into Utah's football team, and see how his exposure changes vs. his time with BYU. The logical fallacy you posted is the exact definition of an apples to oranges comparison.

  • aceroinox Farmington, UT
    May 16, 2013 12:31 p.m.

    Seems many are missing Teeples' point: a) ESPN was a huge factor in promoting Ziggy and gaining him and BYU national exposure b) ESPN has a vested interest in promoting both because of their contractual relationship with BYU, and c) that relationship would not exist were it not for BYU's independence.

    @wwookie--No, not every "die-hard fan gets giddy with the possibility of joining the big 12". Being part of a conference is not nirvana. Playing other great programs, being on the national stage, and having a shot at a big bowl if we do well--THAT's nirvana to a true football fan. BYU's 2013 schedule is stellar: Wisconsin and Notre Dame in November, Texas, Georgia Tech and Boise State in Lavell Edwards Stadium, opening game against Virginia. And membership in the WCC has been huge for the other sports: top-drawer competition in basketball, soccer, volleyball, baseball, softball, gymnastics.

    I'm LOVING independence, and I suspect we're just getting warmed up!

  • backpacn Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    ParkCityAggie

    There's nothing wrong with using new evidence to validate previous decisions.

    The most critical decision in leaving the MWC to become Independent was gaining increased exposure, the evidence for which is ample.

    As far as the Big XII is concerned, there's no evidence that BYU turned down an invitation from the Big XII. BYU did engage in discussions with the Big XII, but only those involved in the actual discussion know how close BYU and the Big XII came to a formal agreement that would have produced a formal invitation.

  • ParkCityAggie Park City, Ut
    May 16, 2013 12:10 p.m.

    If you continually have to keep trying to talk yourself into believing you made a good decision about something... in the face of facts and reality, chances are...

    Big XII here you come LOL

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2013 12:01 p.m.

    chrissy

    CBSSports is already projecting Kyle Van Noy as the 11th pick in the 2014 draft.

    Sorry, no Utes mentioned on the 2014 Big Board

    Unfortunately for U, the tide is turning as the two programs head in opposite directions.

    BYU back to national prominence.

    Utah back to conference also ran, infrequent bowl game participant.

  • Eddie Syracuse, UT
    May 16, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    I think that many people are really looking at not only this story but the whole BYU thing in the wrong way. Too many people on the hill think only football in the eyes of the pac-12....money, money, money. BYU and the Church look at it through the eyes of exposure for the Church. Football, the game and its success is way down the list of what they want to achieve. BYU has taken the high road and over time will become very successful in their goals. Most of u need to step out of the football box and take off your crimson (or whatever color u are using now) glasses and see things as they really are. BYU is making a huge success of independence and over time will see things grow and progress to make not only BYU but the Church more successful than anyone has ever dreamed.

    Don't believe me? Just watch ! ! !

    True success is in the eyes of the beholder. Success is not being on the bottom of a major conference.

  • Pavalova Surfers Paradise, AU
    May 16, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    I guess I'm not seeing how the BCS recruiting on the hill is working? I think the interesting story is that BYU doesn't have NFL talent but is playing at a high level of success. Given BYU's lack of NFL talent, the football team should be getting crushed every single game right?

  • Cris B. Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    talkinsports,

    Did you know Utah just won the recruiting battle for the fourth year in a row?

    LOL.

    Yes, the great majority of kids who had offers from both byu and Utah picked UTAH.

    And UTAH's average stars are higher than byu's.

    And if you think stars don't matter, Nick saban disagrees. He gets more 4 and 5 star guys each year than BYU will in the next 20 years.

    LOL

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    May 16, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    timid sparrow

    It is possible to test this hypothesis:

    That Ziggy produced far more publicity for BYU and was far more successful in helping BYU qualify for a bowl game, than Star produced for Utah.

    Future BYU recruits all over the country obviously noticed and will undoubtedly be factoring that into their personal equation when it comes to deciding where they want to play college football.

    Ziggy's story IS priceless, and the exposure BYU received IS evidence that BYU football independence is working, despite the ankle-biting yapping from the hill.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    May 16, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    The problem I have with hypotheses like the one in this story ("Ziggy's story is proof that independence is working") is that it's impossible to test any alternate hypotheses. Who's to say that if BYU were a part of a conference that Ziggy wouldn't have gotten even MORE press and the church's efforts in Africa wouldn't have gotten even MORE press?

    Being able to draw a rash conclusion like the one drawn in this article without testing any other hypothesis is disingenuous. In fact, in psychology it has a name: Experimenter's bias.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 16, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    Jake D.

    LOL at your jealous, delusional spin. Only a jealous BYU hater would even think that way.

    BYU's coaching staff provided exactly what Ziggy needed as far as coaching, first giving Ziggy a chance to learn the game by being a member of the team, then being patient enough to teach him enough about the game so that he wouldn't be totally lost when he was finally stepped onto the football field, and finally, not pressing him into a starting position until he was ready to handle the every-down grind of being a starter.

    The bottom-line results SCREAM success, since Ziggy progressed from not even knowing how to don a pair of shoulder pads to being the #5 NFL draft pick under the tutelage of BYU's coaching staff.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    May 16, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Confused at why the TITLE of the article is saying this is evidence that BYU's independence is working.
    There s no objective evidence that BYU's independence is working. In fact, even the most die-hard fan gets giddy with the possibility of joining the big 12.
    Ziggy is the success story. In and of himself. He deserves the credit for pushing on, trying out new things, leaving home and persevering. This is not a success of BYUs or of the church. This IS great exposure for the two and that they can facilitate such success, but the credit is Ziggy's.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    May 16, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    RE: Johnny Triumph

    "I love that BYU is football independent but it's a much too limited view to say that independence led to Ansah's story and media coverage."

    That's not what the article said. It said that partnering with ESPN led to more airtime and exposure than Ansah would have gotten otherwise, which is true. It also pointed out that this partnership with ESPN led to very positive exposure for the LDS church, which was also true.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    May 16, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    "If you believe ESPN would have given the Ansah story the same airtime were BYU still playing games in anonymity on a crummy low-def network based in Colorado, Craig Thompson has a bridge to sell you in Laramie."

    Great line and well written article. Teeples is a welcome addition to the DNews staff. I agree that independence is working out better for BYU than if they had stayed in the MWC. Would I rather be in the Big 12? Absolutely, but it is unlikely that they will come calling. Independence is the next best thing.

    Re: Jake D.

    You obviously didn't watch Ziggy early on in this process. As someone who has watched him and his development closely I can tell you that the coaching at BYU did a masterful job with him. And rooming with KVN didn't hurt either. You don't start someone in college football just because they are athletic, you start them when they're ready to make meaningful contributions to the team. That is exactly what happened with Ansah at BYU.

  • aljmac Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    Clearly Ansah's success has brought a lot of attention to BYU. That's not debatable. But I'll confess: I'm not seeing how Ansah's success justifies independence. I'm pretty sure he would have had the same success had BYU still been in the MWC, or any other conference.

    Is this article making the case that a player can still get to the NFL in BYU's independent state? Was there any doubt of that before? The top player in the NFL draft came from Central Michigan -- a school from a conference that gets FAR less ink than BYU as a MWC member or independent.

  • Sneaky Jimmy Bay Area, CA
    May 16, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    Ziggy's story somewhat mirrors "Book of Mormon the musical" Sheds a lot of light on what the LDS church is doing in Africa. Exposure is good and it goes both ways. BYU, the LDS church and rank and file mormons are being exposed to diverse opinions and beliefs. I hope everyone continues to benefit.

  • Cris B. Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    Bronco has yet to have a single of HIS recruits that was drafted.

    Zero.

    None.

    Hasn't happened. Ever.

    Whittingham has over 20.
    So does Saban
    And miles
    and mack brown
    and chris Peterson
    and steve spurrier

    What this shows is that quality coaching in BCS leagues "is working"

    LOL

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    May 16, 2013 9:52 a.m.

    There's no way to say that BYU's football independence had anything to do with Ansah's success nor the subsequent media coverage. Had BYU been conference affiliated Ansah's unique and compelling story would still have garnered intense exposure.

    I love that BYU is football independent but it's a much too limited view to say that independence led to Ansah's story and media coverage.

  • Jake D. SLC, UT
    May 16, 2013 9:48 a.m.

    Rather than evidence that independence is working I think Ansah is an example of just the opposite. Ziggy matches Jim McMahon as the highest draft pick in BYU history yet the coaching staff really had no idea what they had, finally gave him minutes as a senior almost by accident, and still underutilized him in the final games of his senior year.

    Ziggy somehow found a way to be successful in spite of the blunders of the coaching staff.