MyPerspective"What will you be saying when, in due time, RES is
expanded? What will you yap about then?"Call us when the Utes
sell out a 60,000+ seat RES for the first time. Until then, filling
a cracker box-sized, 45,000-seat stadium is no big deal, BYU was drawing over
46,000 in LES THIRTY years ago, BEFORE LES was expanded.As far as
trend's go, BYU has drawn 60,000+ every year except one (Crowton's
final season) for the past 30 years.
Holy cow, these posts from the byu faithful are absurd. The bottom line here is
that for the last several years attendance at RES has exceeded capacity and that
condition is not expected to change. Don't you think it would
be more productive, as byu fans, to find ways of getting attendance at your own
stadium up to capacity? You have a dinosaur stadium that is more than 10% empty
on any given week. Expend your energy addressing that issue instead of
demonstrating your envy by frantically finding fault with the deferred expansion
plans of your hated rival.What will you be saying when, in due time,
RES is expanded? What will you yap about then?
@magnaute"Boo! I think we are wasting some great opportunities right
now. I would buy season tickets again if they were available. Students are
graduating from the U, and hence from the MUSS. Many of them want to buy season
tickets and continue going to games. But, they can't. So they will form
other buying habits and many of them will be lost as potential
customers."They can always become Dairy Ute fans and drive up to
Logan for games. The Dairy Utes don't fill Romney Stadium, they're
currently a winning program and have capacity to take on a bunch of bandwagon
fans AND it would help "ute fans/BYU Haters" maintain their dislike of
the Cougars while enjoying some quality football played by a winning program
that currently has some upward momentum.
The 'little stadium' inferiority complex is alive and well in
Uteville.When I'm around the BYU campus it is
'magic'. And seeing the football stadium that Lavell built is just
like seeing the castle at Disneyland.Yeah, it's that kind of a
feeling when football season is in full swing.Seeing the Ute fans
just begging for some morsel of RES expansion and left wanting is so funny.
anti BCS"Assuming a 6-game home schedule and BYU outdrawing Utah
by 20,000+ fans per game, LES has outdrawn RES by over a QUARTER-MILLION fans
this century."Check your math:20,000 fans X 6 games
per year X 13 years = 1,560,000LES has outdrawn RES this century by
more than half the population of the entire state of Utah!Even at a
VERY conservative $30 per ticket price, LES gate receipts have surpassed RES
gate receipts by $46,800,000 this century.
navelvet"It is YOU who need to call US..."Why?What makes you think BYU fans would be interested in the Utes
drawing a "sell-out" crowd punier than BYU was drawing 30 years ago,
BEFORE Cougar Stadium was expanded?Assuming a 6-game home schedule
and BYU outdrawing Utah by 20,000+ fans per game, LES has outdrawn RES by over a
QUARTER-MILLION fans this century.The reason you try to minimize
attendance smack is obvious; Utah's small-ball stadium and fan base are
simply no match for BYU's big boy-sized stadium and fan base.
gored"Duckhunter (and your other aliases):"What
makes you think that Duckhunter has other aliases?It is possible,
you know, for reasonable fans to share similar opinions that don't
necessarily agree with the group-think on the hill.
navelvet"...when was the last time LES was sold out?"When was the last time RES drew 60,000+ fans?Even with
Utah's best attendance in history and BYU suffering through the Crowton
debacle, BYU has still averaged 20,000+ more than Utah this century.Year BYU Utah2000 60,619 38,5382001 60,450 34,0692002 62,176
35,4292003 61,501 35,1342004 64,236 45,1552005 58,204
41,5362006 60,524 43,2792007 64,497 42,5932008 64,102
45,3422009 64,236 45,1552010 61,381 45,4592011 60,265
45,1492012 61,161 45,347Avg 61,796 41,707
duckhunter (and your other aliases): Why do you care?
Snack WAC:"Call us when the Utes actually sell out a 60,000+
capacity RES for the first time."Call YOU? No, no, no, my
"small ball" little brother. It is YOU who need to call US...at some
point where you're wanted by an elite conference, or playing in a big boy
bowl game.I have to laugh at how our Indy-WACey little brothers have
been forced to fall back to the "stadium size" trash talk, seeing as how
they can't beat us on the field. And speaking of "actually sell[ing]
out [stadium] capacity", when was the last time LES was sold out? Answer: Sept. 17, 2011....in other words, the last time your big brother came
to town. 54-10! Haha!
LolEkute: In the words of our beloved Homer Simpson, "DOH!"
Deep blue is your daddy, tell him good night and you promise to do your homework
next time lol.
ekuteWhat 25 years are you talking about?AP/Coaches Top
25 Finishes BYU 18, Utah 71964 Utah UR/141977 BYU
20/161979 BYU 13/121980 BYU 12/121981 BYU 13/111983 BYU
7/71984 BYU 1/1 National Champions1985 BYU 16/171989 BYU
22/181990 BYU 22/171991 BYU 23/231994 BYU 18/10, Utah 10/81996 BYU 5/52001 BYU 25/242003 Utah 21/212004 Utah 4/52006 BYU 16/152007 BYU 14/152008 BYU 25/21, Utah 2/42009 BYU
12/12, Utah 18/182010 Utah UR/232011 BYU UR/25As you can
see, 5 of Utah's 7 Top 25 finishes occurred within an 8-year period, and if
you look only at the AP poll (the poll Utah fans always cite), only ONE of
Utah's 5 AP rankings occurred outside of a tiny 6-year window.Utah football success is indeed a flash-in-the-pan.
25 years of "Utah's recent flash-in-the-pan success".
ekute"Isn't this whole conversation about you guys telling
us that the Utes don't have 60,000+ fans?"You're
forgetting that every available seat at a BYU-Utah game at RES that wasn't
occupied by a Utah fan, would be occupied by a BYU fan.Long before
Utah's recent flash-in-the-pan success, BYU's biennial visits to Utah
were often the only games that Utah managed to sell out.
@Y's little brotherSlow down, your getting all frantic and
emotional again. Isn't this whole conversation about you guys telling us
that the Utes don't have 60,000+ fans? lol.
ekuteMore like 60,000+ fans falling over themselves at halftime
trying to get out of the stadium cause their mighty weak Utes are getting owned
by the Mighty Cougars!A fitting fulfillment of the dire concerns of
Chris Hill when he delayed and then finally caved on expanding RES - a few
losing seasons, coupled with once again getting owned by the Cougars, and
expanded RES would look just like the HC, a vast sea of empty red chairs.
60,000+ fans falling over themselves at halftime trying to get out of the
stadium cause their team is once again getting owned by the Pac12 Mighty Utes!
ThletePoor Utah fans having to live with egg all over their faces
after realizing that all of their stadium expansion banter turned out to be
nothing more than wishful thinking, haha.Call us when the Utes
actually sell out a 60,000+ capacity RES for the first time.
Thlete:"Extending the winning streak this year and having a whole 3
years to crow about it is gonna be so nice".Famous last words. I
don't want to hear you crying or giving any excuses when the opposite
happens. BYU is done giving gift baskets to the utes...our charity ends this
year. GO COUGS!
I personally hope they don't expand RES anytime soon. I love being able to
sell my extra season tickets in the north end zone for over 3x face value every
Poor Cougar fans having to resort to stadium size banter, haha. Like they say,
it's not the size of the stadium, it's the number on the scoreboard.
Extending the winning streak this year and having a whole 3 years to crow about
it is gonna be so nice.
Duck:No I wasn't saying anyone said RES needed an update. I was
referring to that because of my statement that most businesses solidify or
upgrade their infrastructure before expanding their business. Utah's
infrastructure needed upgrading (see the article about all the building and
renovating they are doing right now) so that's what they're focusing
on before expanding the football stadium. As far as whether they could fill more
seats, that may be debatable, but in the end whi cares? They get more revenue
from TV than ticket sales, so expanding the stadium is a low business priority
right now. I also believe Utah WILL expand their stadium at some point because
the plans have already been drawn up and it remains on their plans for the
future. I know from my own experience with friends and some family who are ute
fans that there is a waiting list for season tickets. How long that list is, and
whether Utah could fill a 60,000 seat stadium is a matter of debate, but I
don't think that's what's holding them up on stadium
expansion...other pressing needs are taking the cash right now.
@CougsndawgsDid anyone say rice eccles needed an "upgrade"?
It is a nice little facility and doesn't need any apparent
"upgrades". But it also doesn't need an expansion and chris hill
apparently realizes this because there are no plans to do it anytime soon. The
utah "fan"base needs to actually prove they are more than flash in the
pan fair weahter types before that expense would be incurred. The only ones
clamoring for an expansion are utah "fans" that simply see it as
validation for their own tenuous "fan"base. Since there are no plans to
do it anytime soon we can take that as the utah powers that be not giving them
Thank you Naval Vet. It is true that they will be 100% next year though right? I
wasn't sure if it was 50 or 75% this year so thanks for the info.Rockwell:No I'm not saying Utah will necessarily decrease their
seating like other schools have done. I was pointing to the fact that if other
schools in the PAC 12 are decreasing their seating, than it decreases the
pressure on Utah to increase right away. Btw the other schools aren't
actually decreasing their stadium sizes, they're just decreasing the number
of seats for season ticket holders to install luxury suites and skyboxes, etc.
Still hurts fans to do that though because it lessens their opportunity for
season tickets. I hope Utah knows better.I think Utah is doing the right
thing here. In business you always strengthen and upgrade your infrastructure
before you expand it. And it's not like Chris hill didn't say
expansion is off the table, it's just not going to happen before other
renovations. To my fellow BYU fans, Utah has other facilities that NEED to be
upgraded. RES is a beautiful facility that doesn't need upgrade, only
I've never seen so many fans trying so desperately to explain why their big
boy conference team is incapable of expanding their tiny little stadium to big
Chewbacca"I'm curious to see how the millions of Cougar
fans will do now that they finally have a big boy schedule."BYU
will do just fine playing a "big boy" schedule. Unlike the Utes, BYU has
been playing the big boys for decades.BYU played FIVE Top 25 teams
last season, plus ACC division champ Georgia Tech, and MWC tri-champ SDSU, and
still finished with an 8-5 record and #26 ranking in Sagarin.Utah
played TWO Top 25 teams, lost to both, and finished with a losing 5-7 record and
#61 ranking in Sagarin, despite all of those BYU legacy kids playing for the
Utes.Unfortunately for U, the biggest difference between BYU and
Utah isn't losing to better teams, the biggest difference is BYU
doesn't lose to bad teams like 10-loss Colorado and 10-loss UNLV.btw, BYU and USC are the ONLY programs from the West to make Athlon's Top
25 All-Time College Football Dynasties.
midmajor-I'm curious about a few things too.I'm curious to see how the millions of cougar fans will do now that they
finally have a big boy schedule. Will winning 5-6 games and maybe qualifying
for the no-name bowl be good enough for them? Will losing a majority of those 2
for 1 games on the road be the exposure that you wanted?How much of
your hair will you pull out watching the on-going line of byu legacy kids
committing to the U? (Jake Murphy, Harrison Handley,…) How
will you handle the on-going line of top in-state talent (Jackson Barton, Harvey
Langi,…) committing to the U?
Cougsndawgs:"Utah is also not a 100 % revenue earner until
2014...I believe they're only 50% this year, correct me if I'm
wrong."You're wrong. This year, we'll be receiving a
Just curious how many of the millions of Utah fans on this mystery waiting list
would be willing to shell out money year after year for season tickets to watch
a team that isn't even good enough to qualify for a bowl.
AZUTE1"I'm uncertain of why you and your fellow BYU-fans
insist on consistently making claim, but you clearly haven't done your
homework, if you believe UTAH doesn't have a seemingly endless waiting-line
for season tickets, miles-long."That's gotta be one of the
most confused comments I've ever seen on this blog, and that's saying
alot.As Duckhunter asked, where's your proof, your detailed
analysis, that apparently only you and NV are privy to? You might want to share
your little secret with Chris Hill who seems to be having doubts about the
wisdom of expanding RES anytime soon.
@azuteAnd of course you are going to post a "detailed, thorough
break-down/analysis of" your assertion? I am going to venture a guess that
you cannot, and will not. If there truly were ""seemingly
endless waiting-line for season tickets, miles-long" then expanding rice
eccles would be utah's most pressing athletic infrastructure need and the
others would all be behind it. Considering the only one of the other projects
that might bring in more direct revenue would be hc improvements then your
assertions appear to be...well...."frantic amd emotional". I
look forward to your "detailed, thorough break-down/analysis" of your
Magna UteIf Cougsndawgs' statement is true, that "...some PAC 12 schools are actually decreasing the size of their stadiums
despite waiting lists for season tickets. To me this is positive proof that
schools no longer care about the fans but about their bottom line..."That should be far more disturbing for Utah fans than simple cash flow
impediments to expansion. What that's really saying is that Utah has become
just another money-grubbing institution that's far more concerned with
money, than its own fans.
Cougsndawgs- You are awfully reasonable and level-headed for a Cougar fan
posting here on a Ute article. Thanks for adding to the conversation instead of
just stirring the pot.
AZUTE1"Where's your proof that UTAH wouldn't be able
to fill-up R.E.S., post-expansion?"Where's your proof that
Utah would be able to fill up RES post expansion?Actions speak
louder than words, and the fact that Chris Hill is hesitant to move forward on
expansion plans is clear proof that your own AD has doubts about Utah fans being
able to consistently fill RES, especially if the losing season, no bowl trend
continues.All Hill has to do to find evidence of how fickle
Utah's fan base is, is look a couple blocks east of RES to the HC, which
has become a vast sea of empty red chairs.If money is the issue,
then why aren't all of these "endless lines" of Utah fans helping
cash-strapped Utah with private contributions to fund Utah's stadium
My understanding is that some PAC 12 schools are actually decreasing the size of
their stadiums despite waiting lists for season tickets. To me this is positive
proof that schools no longer care about the fans but about their bottom line.
They make far more in media revenue than ticket and concession sells for games.
Utah is also not a 100 % revenue earner until 2014...I believe they're only
50% this year, correct me if I'm wrong. To me this seems to make expansion
of RES a low priority...and if you've been to the U campus recently, it is
true they need major upgrades with other facilities. I've told people for a
long time during alignment that this is why BYU doesn't care about the
money they would get from a conference. They already have better facilities than
half the BCS schools because they are a rich private institution. I think
expanding RES would be stupid right now based on their present needs. I also
don't believe Utah would have any problem selling 15000 more seats. My bro
in law and sister talk about the lines and people waiting, so I don't think
that's an issue.
@ Swoop--Where's your proof that UTAH wouldn't be able to
fill-up R.E.S., post-expansion? Just simply pointing to Dr. Hill not
immediately proceeding forward with it, doesn't even remotely come close to
making any sense, whatsoever, nor has this ever been stated as the primary-cause
for delay.You people haven't come close to making a case for it
and, on the contrary, only serve to strengthen what it is we've been laying
claim to as the primary-reason for momentarily delaying it, regarding its cost.
We're currently wrapping-up the construction of our brand-new, state of the
art Football Facility, for instance, and have other sports we're allocating
funds to, as well.Again, provide definitive evidence of this theory
of yours that the real issue at hand is this notion that UTAH is concerned about
being able to fill-up R.E.S., once they've in fact completed its expansion.
I sincerely look forward to your detailed, thorough break-down/analysis of it.
Thanks in advance!!
AZUTE1You can ignore reality if it helps you sleep at night, but as
CG correctly stated:"... IF the Utes had a fan base capable of
regularly filling a larger stadium, RES would have been expanded years
ago."The only reason RES was slightly expanded in the first
place, was to accommodate the 2002 Olympics. Ten years later, RES still sits at
45,000+ capacity, with no firm plans for expansion.That's LESS
than BYU averaged in 1981, the year BEFORE less was expanded to 65,000+.IF Utah really did have a "seemingly endless waiting-line for season
tickets, miles-long", there's absolutely no reason Chris Hill
wouldn't be moving full speed ahead on expanding RES.Despite
the whiny excuse making coming from the hill, actions speak MUCH louder than
CG--"The truth is, if the Utes had a fan base capable of
regularly filling a larger stadium, RES would have been expanded years ago.
Money isn't the main issue here. Having a large enough fan base to fill a
larger stadium is the real issue."I'm uncertain of why you
and your fellow byu-fans insist on consistently making claim, but you clearly
haven't done your homework, if you believe UTAH doesn't have a
seemingly endless waiting-line for season tickets, miles-long. Filling-out
their expanded-stadium isn't even remotely the issue here. On the contrary,
it's 100% as Naval Vet so eloquently stated it when he referenced our
portion of our conference's revenue-sharing. Attempting to dispute this
irrefutable fact in no way renders it untrue, whatsoever.
Little brother Y, the fact that you think the stadium was the Utes' most
glaring disparity in facilities shows exactly how little you know about the
school, and brings your credibility on the subject into question. And
that's just your comment, your username already removes all doubt as to
your lack of credibility.
@navalThe wonderful thing about the internet is you can go right to
the state auditors website and get a full report on utah's athletic
department, its revenue and its expenses.If as you claim the
expansion would add 11,000 seats then it would add approximately 3.3 mil per
year in added ticket revenue as an "average" season ticket cost $300 per
season. Concessions would also increase by around 1 mil per year for an increase
in revenue of 4.3 mil per season. That means a stadium expansion could pay for
itself, with no donations at all, in about 14 years. But according
to chris hill all of these upgrades have to be 50% paid for by donations which
means that it would only take 7 years to pay for the expansion if added revenue
went to that purpose because donations would offset half of the cost.That is a relatively short time frame and the money would not need to be taken
from any other projects.So who isn't doing their math?LOL!
Maybe this will tone down some of the "revenue" chest-beating we
constantly hear from the kids on the hill. When the Utes can't even afford
to address their most glaring disparity in facilities, it's obvious that
the PAC 12 gravy train isn't contributing nearly as much to Utah's
athletic coffers as Ute fans claim.It's going to take years,
perhaps decades, perhaps never, for our little brothers to match the facilities
already in place in Provo.
I'm with Mildred and Duckhunter. Their's only like too dozen ute
"fans" at the games. Everybody else is just their to boo when they hear
the byu score because byu is always winning. The u should take down half the
stadium and they still couldn't fill it.
@u25Wow, that UofU mentality is why Y fans will never be Ute fans!
Since your so smart, why would the Y drop football?
There will be 60,000 y fans looking for a new team, when they drop football down
Duckhunter:Stadium expansion plans would add an extra 11,000 seats.
How many more "millions" did you expect those extra seats would be
expected to add this season? You didn't do the math did you? Nope. You
were just being desperate, frantic, and emotional. Typical.
The stadium expansion has been reported to cost at least 60 Million. This is
more than a complete tear down and rebuild of the stadium. The expansion would
reportedly add about 10k seats. Considering the season ticket price for that
approximate area for this year these seats would produce about 1.75 million a
year. Considering there are other facilities that desperately need
upgrades and there are other PAC 12 schools that are looking at ways to downsize
their stadiums, I am glad that Dr. Hill is being cautious with expansion plans.
The demand is there. The challenge is justifying the cost vs the income
expansion will bring in. I do think it will happen eventually but for now there
are other priorities.
Duckhunter is right. Our stadium is bigger than yours and we have more fans.
Now if we could ever beat U, we'd be set.
Wow,presumably grown men comparing the size of their stadiums. Must be compensating.
@navalYou are of course "frantically and emotionally" wrong
about this. As I stated if chris hill and the rest of the utah administration
really thought the utah "fan"base would actually fill an expanded rice
eccles then they would do it since that would hypothetically generate far more
revenue than they are currently getting and help fund all of those other things
they are doing that you claim are keeping them from expanding the stadium. In
otherwords if you were correct stadium expansion, and its resulting increase in
revenue, would fund those other projects you claim are keeping the money away
from stadium expansion. But of course they don't think utah
"fans" will fill it, they know they are pretty much topped out and they
have ample evidence, which you conveniently didn't mention, by the last
several years of little to no attendance at the hc. No plans to
expand mean just that, no plans to expand. It is hard to be any more clear than
The howling wind that U hear is all of the hot air being let out of the RES
expansion balloon.Duckhunter was correct in his assessment that
there are only about "20-30,000 "real" Utah fans out there; the rest
have already proven their "loyalty", or lack thereof, with Utah's
tdlawtonBYU averaged over 46,000 in 1981, the year BEFORE LES was
expanded.For the last 30 years, BYU has averaged 60,000+.Call us when U have your first 60,000+ average attendance season at RES.----------navelvetLOL at your "lack of
funds" frantic and emotional whining. Utah fans have been telling us for
years that the Utes would be swimming in cash as soon as they joined the PAC.
It's interesting that WAC member BYU was somehow able to raise
enough private donations to expand their stadium to 65,000 way back in 1982,
BEFORE BYU won its National Championship, but PAC member Utah still can't
scrape together enough to expand RES AFTER two BCS bowl wins.Obviously, all of the talk about Utah's fanbase rivaling BYU's
fanbase is just a bunch of idle prattle.
Chris Hill is smart enough to know that it's not wise to waste millions
expanding a stadium that could easily become another vast sea of empty red
chairs, just like the Huntsman.As usual, despite the grandiose
"plans", the Utes are all talk, but no walk, on stadium expansion.
Duckhunter:"...they realize the utah fanbase is about topped
out..."Not so little bro. It isn't the "fanbase"
that's been "topped out". It's the money. Stadium expansion
would be the most expensive endeavor at this point, and we won't be 100%
revenue sharers until the FOLLOWING season. The article was quite clear about
it:"Utah Athletics Director Chris Hill noted there are other
projects that need to get done at this time...Even so, Hill acknowledged that,
'Yes, there are things on the books about the stadium.'...Initial
drawings with major changes to the south end of the stadium have already been
created."Case closed.You panicked again, didn't
you? Don't be so frantic and emotional.
@magna ute fanIf chris hill, and other university officials, really
thought a stadium expansion would lead to a major increase in attendance, and
therefor revenue, then they would do it as quickly as they possibly could. But
they realize the utah fanbase is about topped out and although expansion would
make room for more people it wouldn't automatically translate into enough
of them to be worthwhile. They have seen how quickly the hc has emptied out with
the demise of the basketball program and also know that the football program is
on its way downhill so they wisely are waiting to see how much that will affect
attendance.If utah can keep attendance fairly static over the next
few years with the coming poor seasons then they will probably consider
expanding the stadium. But they aren't going to do it now based on the
ample evidence of utah's tenuous, at best "fan" base.They know that there are only about 20-30,000 "real" utah fans out
there. The rest are simply "fans" and have a lot to prove.
@Pavalova: "Why would they change something they can fill anyway? Works fine
the way it is."What fantasy world are you living in?RES listed capacity 45,0172012 attendace average
45,1492011 attendace average 45,4592010 attendace average
45,1562009 attendace average 45,1552008 attendace average
45,3525 straight years of averaging over listed capacity Utah IS
filling their stadium, that is why so many Ute fans are beating the drum for
Boo! I think we are wasting some great opportunities right now. I would buy
season tickets again if they were available. Students are graduating from the
U, and hence from the MUSS. Many of them want to buy season tickets and
continue going to games. But, they can't. So they will form other buying
habits and many of them will be lost as potential customers. Come
on Dr Hill! Let's get this done!
Why would they change something they can fill anyway? Works fine the way it is.