Comments about ‘Inspired question, 'Book of Mormon' musical leads to former California mayor's conversion’

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Published: Monday, May 13 2013 5:00 a.m. MDT

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Far East USA, SC

"In the scriptures it talks a lot about new wine(commonly referred to our day as grape juice)"

Do you sincerely believe that during Biblical times that they drank grape juice instead of wine? Well, if that makes you sleep better.

Wine and beer have historically been safer to store than water. Water, left for a while will become unsafe to drink. Beer and wine came about in part for those reasons.

The additional "characteristics" were a bonus....

layton, UT

RE: Rational. Wine was used by Noah, Gen 9:20,21. Melchizedek, Gen 14:18. Isaac Gen 27:25. John 2:1-11, Jesus turns water into wine not wine into water, And see Mt 11:19 (wine bibber/drinker). Mogen David is popular for the Jewish Passover in modern times.

The wine that was used in the New Testament by our Lord and the early disciples was alcoholic or else the saints couldn't have gotten drunk on it during communion (1Co 11:21).

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.(Mt 15:9)

Moses Lake, WA

donn, you can make the scriptures appear to support just about cause you want them to, and you could still be wrong, but then I think you already know that. Its a good thing to have some inspired guidance. Read 2Ne.9:28-29

Vincentown, NJ

My friend and I were brought into the Church through anti-Mormon literature that piqued our interest to know more. We've both been happily married for decades - each with 7 healthy children.

Sandy, UT

Ah, the alcoholic beverage debate. Let's just get a few things straight. Anciently, there does not appear to be any mandate to abstain from the consumption of alcohol in the LDS Canon. Jesus, does in fact, appear to drink wine, as do other Biblical and Book of Mormon characters. Modernly, on the other hand, it is a completely different story. D&C 89 specifically lists that alcohol is not to be consumed. Originally, as has been pointed out, this was merely treated as a recommendation, a 'word of wisdom' to live by. Currently, however, LDS ecclesiastical leaders have clearly stated that sobriety is not only wise council, it is a REQUIREMENT to be in good standing in the eyes of The Church. If you don't believe in The D&C or in modern LDS leadership, that's fine. You can believe in whatever you want to believe in. But drinking alcohol is most definitely inconsistent with current, modern LDS doctrine, however much it may have been acceptable in the past. And some LDS, if not many, will struggle with that. I certainly did for awhile. Thank God, I no longer do.

Beverly Hills, CA

I for one never vilified this musical. I never watched and and probably won't in the future. I knew any attention to the LDS Church would be good because the truth and happiness of the Gospel will touch the hearts of those looking for it.

Central Texan
Buda, TX

Yes, we may likely be the only group in history that has this particular stance on alcohol under direction of a prophet, but I believe it is inspired for our day -- not as a temporal law for our "good health" but as a means to develop spiritual strength and in being a light or example to others. (Matt. 5)

I love the conversion story.

Just an Observer
Salt Lake City, UT

Because of the way the Word of Wisdom came about, and because the Lord mentions, "In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days," I think there is a good chance that the proscription of alcohol will be lifted when the time comes that there are no longer "conspiring men" around. And I, for one, would welcome the permission to enjoy a little wine with a good meal. But whether or not that ever becomes the case, I frankly look at this as another indication of the validity of the LDS Church; the claim is that the church is based on modern revelation, appropriate for our time, and I certainly think this is appropriate for our time.

newhall, CA

Stories like these reconfirms my testimony of the Gospel and that this is the Lord's church. Tears formed in my eyes as I read this article and could commiserate with what he experienced.

Salt Lake City, UT

There are similar stories out of NYC after the musical open there. From personal experience, much anti-Mormon literature sparks an interest to find out what all the shouting is about.

Salt Lake City, UT

"D&C 89 specifically lists that alcohol is not to be consumed."


5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

it does still prescribe wine for the Sacrament. It wasn't until a long time after 1833 that it was totally forbidden.

Marysville, WA

Kudos to Brother Marcus for seeking and following the truth, and especially to the woman who had the courage to open her mouth to a friend about what she believed.

I would love to hear him speak about his conversion. Great story. Thanks for sharing it. And shame on those who use the comments section as their hobby horse for tangential and irrelevant stuff.

CA. reader
Rocklin, CA

History has shown that the louder and longer the ridicule or persecution in a given area, the faster the Church grows in that area. This play is being performed all across the US so the work is progressing all across the US.

Holladay, UT

This about a man who converted to a church, said a church is true and believes the Book of Mormon to be true.
Why this woman felt she needed to let this man know she was "a Mormon" is kind of strange. Why the need to advertise?
Four points about Christians: 1.)They come to God without a cleaned up act, they come as sinners and admit and confess they are sinners. 2.) They accept Christ as their Redeemer who suffered and died on the cross for their sins (Christ didn't atone for our sins in the Garden). 3.) They believe CHRIST is truth. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6. 4.)This person then calls themselves a CHRISTIAN.
So did this man convert to a CHURCH or to CHRIST? I never saw that stated although I know many will say infer that. But every conversion or testimony I hear from a Mormon is that they converted by "knowing the BOM was true" or that "I know the church is true." Christ is always missing in those testimonies.

Sandy, UT


My mistake. I should have said ''D&C 89 specifically lists that 'strong drinks' are not to be consumed" instead of alcohol. Of course, modern LDS ecclesiastical leaders have specifically stated what the term 'strong drinks' entails.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO


"....Why this woman felt she needed to let this man know she was "a Mormon" is kind of strange. Why the need to advertise?...."

Mormon belief holds that theirs is the one church God himself authorized. Being a ‘chosen’ people is not exactly unprecedented in history. But a divinely authorized sect persuaded of its divine destiny in an era when Christian denominationalism has been waning unavoidably grates against the larger Christian world.

Mormons, of course, don’t see themselves the way others see them. Who does?

Mesa, AZ

or else the saints couldn't have gotten drunk on it during communion (1Co 11:21).

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.(Mt 15:9)"

Blood has two components red cells composing the cellular, and plasma the liquid portion made up of plasma proteins and water. If you were to separate whole blood into its components you would have a watery pale yellow liquid on top and a clump of red cells at the bottom. So in the LDS Sacrament, partaking of water instead of wine would represent the blood of Christ.

layton, UT

RE: zoar63, the LDS Sacrament, partaking of water instead of wine would represent the blood of Christ. else the saints couldn't have gotten*drunk on it during communion (1Co 11:21).

(D&C 17:22-23),“It is expedient that the church meet together often to partake of the bread and the wine in rememberance of the Lord Jesus ,and the Elder or priest shall administer it…” The wine . “Wine for the sacrament should be *unfermented, pure and preferably of your own make.( see D&C 26:1; 86:1).
The D&C references are found in the concordance of the JST(inspired version) removed from current D&C editions today.

Loveland, AL

Regarding the wine/grape juice debate- I'm not too worried about what Jesus drank. In the law of Moses, pork was forbidden. Later that ceased to be the case, due at least in part, I believe, to the revelation Peter received shortly before the baptism of Cornelius (Acts 10:11-17). It is evident to me that God can change His health code to fit the needs of his children at a given time. Durning Jesus' time, maybe alcohol wasn't so bad. Maybe it was safer than other things, given that alcohol kills bacteria. There weren't cars back then, so drunk driving wasn't a problem like it is today, and maybe that had something to do with the change. Maybe Pork wasn't safe before because people didn't know about trichinosis and such, and it was less likely that pork would be cooked thoroughly enough. Or maybe there's some other reason I don't know about. The point is, there is biblical precedent for God changing what is and is not forbidden food-wise in the past. So I am grateful for modern revelation to tell me God's will now.

Holladay, UT

This story is about a man who converted to something by believing a church is true and book is true and then calls himself a Mormon. So different to when a person who converts to becoming a Bible believing Christian. A person coming to the saving knowledge of Christ admits they are a sinner, repents and then accepts Christ death on the cross (not in the Garden as Mormons believe) for their salvation. No where did I see in this man's conversion to Mormonism, that's probably why Mormons call themselves Mormons and are not Christians. Mormons testimony is always, "I know the church is true, I know the BOM is true, I believe Joseph is a prophet". As a Christian I, "confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 10:9-10. That's why I can say, "I am a Christian." and why Mormons say, "You know I'm a Mormon right."

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