Here are some observations I have made from this conversation:1) Ute
fans believe that mere membership in the PAC trumps anything BYU could have.2) Ute fans believe a win against BYU is more of an accomplishment than
achieving a bowl game.3) Cougar fans realize that Ute players play extra
well against BYU while Ute fans believe it is pure dominance. However, this
head-to-head comparison is only made by Ute fans when they beat BYU (for
example, when they lost to Colorado that wasn't a fair comparison of the
two teams).4) Ute fans laugh at BYU coaches and players for shooting for
the stars, but then admit that they themselves do (and then claim that BYU
doesn't shoot for the stars).5) Ute fans believe their team's
strength of schedule means they will always be better than BYU. They do not
realize that pollsters already consider strength of schedule (meaning a team
ranked #25 in a poll is ranked there because their SOS didn't justify any
higher/lower; thus created the differences in the different polls).
I for one wouldn't want to trade places with the U. Here's why. The
BCS is dead. Its funeral will be in January. The landscape of
college football will shortly look much more like March Madness than the BCS.
While Football will never have a 64 team tournament, I suspect they'll be
at 8 (and then 12 and then 16) sooner rather than later and there will be
multiple paths to qualify...and if I am to believe those who trumpet what a
daunting death march a PAC-12 schedule is, the more feasible path to selection
may be an Independent schedule with a couple of high profile wins.Any reasonable observer would agree the likelihood of BYU or Utah getting in
the tournament anytime soon is a long shot, but it's time to acknowledge
that membership in the PAC-12 may be more of an impediment to Utah's
chances than an advantage. It's far more likely that either
Utah or BYU would qualify for the tournament as an Independent with two
signature wins than it would be that either one of them would win the PAC-12.
BYU may indeed have the clearer path to the tournament.
Howard S.Taylorsville, UTWell, one of us is sitting there with
a losing record, no bowl game and beating his chest. You tell me who has the
over-developed sense of hype. Kind of sad, really. You have a seat
at the big boy table, money rolling in, better recruits than you've ever
had, yet all you want to do is try to take away what your brother has. U have
an over developed sense of "little" and "petty", I'd say.
Howard S. / ek / etc. - Why are you here to defend the fort? This is an article
about BYU, not the Pac 12 or Utah. Why aren't you off harassing your
A legacy of losing to Utah.A legacy of losing bowl games.An over
developed fantasy that football vs Utah doesn't matter.Let's be honest...You're sitting there right now polishing them old
trophies and thinking about them sparkling new Pac12 emblems up on The Hill.
Y Grad / Y DadRichland, WA"...an over developed sense of
hope."***********An over developed sense of "hype"
is a more apt description of Cougar Nation.
Silent LurkerCottonwood Heights, UTYou would lose the bet,
don't quit your day job. Despite popular opinion on the hill,
most BYU fans do not suffer from blue lens myopia. We do, however, come
equipped, for the most part, with an over developed sense of hope.
sammygSpringville, UT"drooling over the variety of shiny
trophies"******************Cougar Nation clings
desperately to legacy and aging shiny trophies as if they had relevance in the
modern era of college football.If legacy and shiny trophies had any
current relevance the power conferences would be beating a path the BYU's
door.But alas... BYU is relegated to reflecting on the glory of its
legacy and polishing those aging trophies while waiting for that phone call from
the PAC12 or the BIG12.
ikuteUnlike several of U Utesies that live and die by the scoreboard
of one game and go silent and are ashamed/embarrassed when your team goes belly
up at the end of the season and bowl-less my life as a Cougar fan goes on with
wins or losses. I enjoy the sport, the competition and the rivalry.You see, BYU has many sports that it excels in. BYU is not some one trick pony
trying to be something it is not. BYU just continues to move forward.Except for a couple months out of the year these webpages are full of BYU
accomplishments.At the U we read about a few accomplishments but a
lot more drama these days... swimming, rugby, player discipline, light
suspensions... you name the topic and we can find it in the Ute section.Trading places for a train wreck? ... sorry, nothing appealing about the
several problems at the U.Jealous over a trophy competition? Nope.
Let's be honest... I'm sure there would be a slobbery mess
of you drooling over the variety of shiny trophies if you toured the Legacy Hall
down here in Provo.A legacy vs. 2 BCS banners... LOL
Great to have these young men enter the program. Good hunting.
@ ygrad/dadI bet that was painful for you to admit/write. Perhaps this
year when you don't have seven or eight gimmes on you schedule you will
realize what it is like to play a competitive schedule. If BYU makes a bowl game
this year they will have earned it for the first time in many years.
I'm surprised we underperformed last year. Normally we have tons of NFL
talent all over the line.
ekuteLayton, UT"You guys incessantly try to play down our
dominance on the field.So in the unlikely occurrence that byu wins over
Utah this fall, will you guys politely congratulate us on a good game then
quietly go home?"If in the likely occurence we do beat Utah this
September, it will probably be on the last play, come from behind, seeing as so
many of the games have come down to that.I don't think most of
the cougar fans will proclaim dominance, as winning by a blocked field goal, or
an overtime touchdown when two defenders tackle each other instead of the tight
end, while a magnificent win, is not dominance.And I think most
cougar fans will be smart enough to proclaim the quality of the vanquished foe,
if at all possible. It is just plain foolish to brag about dominance over a
rival you proclaim to be mediocre at best.
"Ute arrogance is something else to behold isn't it?"Does the
truth hurt? lol."Other than a possibility to win a conference
championship trophy"Jealous? lol."the Utes have
nothing that BYU doesn't already have access to."You got that one
backwards my frantic and emotional friend. lol."Squandered
miserably"As in byU's attempts to get into a major conference.
lol."... love to trade places...?"And end that losing
streak in your most important game every year. lol.
"Honestly, wouldn't you guys love to trade places with us right
now?"Ute arrogance is something else to behold isn't it?Other than a possibility to win a conference championship trophy (which
the Utes really don't have a remote chance at doing), the Utes have nothing
that BYU doesn't already have access to."Squandered
miserably" was well said. The Utes wandering off to hang on to
the coattails of the PAC10 will be a continuing source of comedic relief for
several of us and a sad tail for its fans for a long time."...
love to trade places...? Hardly
As a Cougar fan, I don't think we have the right to talk crap to Ute fans.
We did in the 80's and 90's, but now we don't. Until the players
and coaching staff get it together, we should lick our wounds quietly. I feel
that BYU's will return to beating our little brothers from the north soon
(your are the little brothers, fans who rush the field after beating a 9-4 team
that was average at best show how big a deal it is for little brother to beat
big brother.) If we beat Utah in September, I say we should not rush the field,
because we are simply restoring the true order of importance. Let Ute fans beat
their chest about being in the Pac-12. They will be little fish in the big pond
and nobody will even remeber there is a Pac 12 team in Utah.
Grad / Y DadSquandered miserably? While Cougar Nation
would love to declare the demise of Utah football, it's a little early to
declare Utah's invitation to the PAC 12 a squandered opportunity. It's only been two years. Despite the loss to
Colorado, Utah's first year in the PAC was a success by any measure. Year 2
was a challenge, but I know of no Ute fan who expected to compete immediately
for a conference championship.Utah's progress toward PAC12
competitiveness is reflected in its recruiting results. The fact is that
Whit's three recruiting classes since the PAC12 announcement have been
independently ranked as his best classes ever. By comparison, Bronco's
three recruiting classes since the announcement of independence have been
independently ranked as his worst classes ever.The point is that
Utah has a place at the big-boy table. With each passing conference realignment
it appears that BYU will remain on the outside looking in for a looooooong
time.Oh, and maybe BYU could have played better last year... but
Utah could have played better too. The bottom line is that you can't be
relieved of the fact that your team lost.
Well, we will be home. Perhaps I didn't clarify myself as well
as I had hoped. BYU is pretty predictable. We win the games we're
supposed to, we lose the games we're supposed to. We don't often
surprise many people. Therefore, it's pretty easy to think, "last
year, Utah was a little bit better than BYU. The year before, Utah was hugely
better than BYU."The problem is, Utah has always been a little
unpredictable, and the last two years they've been off the charts
unpredictable. Serious, the team that slaughtered BYU at Provo, loses to
Colorado at SLC??? This last season? Connect the dots and what you
come up with is either Utah out coaches BYU and plays out-of-their-minds ball
against their rival (which in no way denigrates the accomplishment), or BYU
chokes, which I'll admit is an unintended slap at at both teams.
"Utah fans think that their victory over BYU is a true benchmark"You guys incessantly try to play down our dominance on the field.So in the unlikely occurrence that byu wins over Utah this fall, will you guys
politely congratulate us on a good game then quietly go home?
ek,Reasonable questions. I DO like independence. It is the best we
could have done with circumstances being what they are. Would I have loved an
invite to the PAC? Of course, or the Big Whatever either. But absolutely not
at the expense of our values, thus end of discussion for the PAC. And now that
we've enjoyed some of the benefits of independence, that tv thing may well
keep us permanently out of any conference discussions. Even if we were in
consideration. Could we have done any better? Here is what I
honestly think, blue glasses aside. Utah fans think that their victory over
BYU is a true benchmark, and therefore BYU could not have done any better. I
think Utah plays BYU out of their heads (or BYU chokes against Utah, you choose)
and then Utah under-performs. Has done for the last two years. Yes,
I think last year BYU would have done better.
Honestly, wouldn't you guys love to trade places with us right now?And can you honestly say that byu would of done any better then Utah, their
first 2 years in the "Pac whatever".
Things are lush and green in the tri-cities right now, but quickly turn dull and
brown as we get into summer and then fall. Will it be the same for byu when they
are confronted by their overwhelming schedule?
ekuteLayton, UTLets establish some details. Yes, Utah owns
scoreboard, has for three years, may for three more. We will see. No, the universe does not revolve around a team, or its fan base, that has had
progressively worse records, culminating most recently in a losing season and
failure to participate in a bowl game. Your ownership of
scoreboard, temporary or not, does not relieve you of the fact that your team
has gotten worse and that your fans very nearly cost their team another loss in
a season of which those were had in abundance. U got the better end
of the stick with your invitation to the PAC whatever. There, I said it.
U've squandered it miserably.
"falling short" 3 times in a row (2012) is "bad form".Claiming superiority over a team that owns you on the field is "bad
Howard S.Taylorsville, UT"Oh and as for rushing the the
field on September 21, 2013... it's really not good form to rush the field
when you've lost the game."I will have to bow to experience
on this one. Utah certainly knows about losing games. Also Utah is expert in
bad form when it comes to rushing the field.
@Cougsndawgs@sammygShooting for the stars is fraught with
challenge.Sometimes lofty goals result in stumbling and falling
short of the mark.Some prefer the satisfaction of modest goals that
are easily achieved.Enjoy the satisfaction of third tier bowl games.
howie... speaker of UteNation"Utes choose to shoot for the
stars"... Really? I'm sorry howie, the harsh
reality of the Ute Christmas break was a summary lockout for miserable
performance brought on by poor coaching, poor recruiting in certain ignored
positions and some performance issues on the field, etc. To suggest
"falling short" was planned for "shooting for the stars" is
pretty funny and a complete denial of reality.Can we expect more
'planned' "falling short" moments from the Utes?The continuing descent of your Utes to below mediocrity (aka < .500
conference showing) accelerates.Enjoy the ride!
Howie:I'd worry more about Utah's inexperience on a defense that
wasn't very good last year when it had experience. Utah has their own
problems that will asuradly have them sitting home again for the holidays. As
far as bowl games..."shooting for the stars"? Most people realize when
they can't see the stars anymore they come down from the clouds and shoot
for something more realistic. Ute fans are the exception with many of them still
holding the rose bowl and a PAC CC as realistic in the near future. Instead of
shooting for the stars, try shooting for .500. The PAC12 honeymoon is over,
either start producing or join the ranks of irrelevant teams in big conferences.
I'm sure Vanderbilt, Minnesota, Iowa St, wash St, northwestern et al would
love the company.
Y Grad / Y DadRichland, WAIf it wasn't for hoping to beat
Utah, Cougar Nation would have no hope at all.As for bowl games and
sitting home... The Utes choose to shoot for the the stars, even if it means
falling short, than to have a third tier bowl game as their ceiling.Hang on to that good feeling... it was probably the same feeling you had just
before mid-night on September 15, 2012.Oh and as for rushing the the
field on September 21, 2013... it's really not good form to rush the field
when you've lost the game.
The only reason a BYU hater dedicate his life commenting on byu related
articles is because BYU gotten under his skin. It's like an addiction. A
very unhealthy one.
Re Howard: "Oh, and hold on to next year because when it comes to Utah,
"wait until next year" is all the Cougar Nation has."Lately, Utah hasn't even had "wait'll next year." Granted,
you have had BYU, three years running, but in the U's slow, painful
decline, you've reached a point where that is all you've had. Last
year, your season was over the evening of September 17th. So
we're inexperienced in some key areas, Utah returns experience at losing
out and sitting home. I have a good feeling this year, the tide changes, and u
will have to live with a BYU victory for a few years. I think I should be in
Provo this year, just to show Utah fans again the right way to rush the field.
sammygSpringville, UTYou're really going to mock Utah for
playing an injured QB with an empty bench... Really...Do the initials RN
mean anything to you.As for rushing the field... when the Utes win
all is good.As for Brian Johnson... the guy holds a 4-1 record
against BYU as a player and coach. I'll take that brand to stupid every
day of the week... and so would you.As for next year... The Utes
aren't relying on o-linemen that have yet to show up on campus, the Utes
aren't relying on coaches who have yet to coach a division 1 game, and the
Utes aren't relying on an inexperienced/injured QB.But if
inexperience and uncertainty on the offensive side of the ball make you happy...
then enjoy because you have it in abundance.Oh, and hold on to next
year because when it comes to Utah, "wait until next year" is all the
Cougar Nation has.
Ute lessons learned from stupidity...1) Don't play a
quarterback who's not fully recovered from an injury.2) Don't
have an empty quarterback bench3) Year two... don't play the same
quarterback who's not fully recovered from a previous, previous injury.4) Don't have an empty quarterback bench5) Don't rush the
field until the game is over6) Don't rush the field until the game is
over7) Don't hire a kid off the street to replace Norm Chow and say
it's a great move. We knew it wasn't. (oops my bad, no one else wanted
the job, beggars can't be choosers)8) Year two, hire a second OC to
really replace the kid and say it's a co-OC when we all know it's
not.So howie, how many repeats of 'stupid' do we have
running concurrently in Uteville?And how's that new offense,
new quarterback,new o-line, new defense and new OC thing working out?It's going to be great seeing you guys choke in Provo and singing
Christmas carols again.
manaen1Buena Park, CASomething stupid? Well,
let's let the results of stupid speak for themselves... against BYU Utah
has won 3 of the last 3, and 8 of the last 11.Oh, and if
inexperienced offensive linemen and coaches running a new system with an
inexperienced/injured QB doesn't worry you... well, then you're just
not facing reality.
@ Howard S. - 10:59 p.m. May 10, 2013You make it sound so risky.
Don't worry, it's not like this program would do something stupid like
give the OC position to someone with no experience.
We are going to have the best O-line in the country.
...SirI am sure you are right. Lots of Utah players and student
envy Kearsley. It is special to make it to BYU...he did...they didn't. I
know they must be disappointed.
New offensive linemen who aren't even on campus yet... New
offensive coaches some of whom have never coached a division 1 game... An inexperienced QB coming back from a serious knee injury... And
a brand new offense...Sounds like a formula for success against one
of the toughest schedules BYU has ever played.
There are so many Utes pulling for Brayden Kearsley! Here's hoping he can
get into the Utah/BYU game! I know all of the Utah players don't want to
have to wait until 2016 to let Mr Kearsley know what we think of him!
Offensive line play was probably the worst I've seen in a long time for BYU
last year. I hope this group can make the adjustments and hit the ground running
so the offense can be more solid this year. We also MUST get better passing from
the QB position. Taysom Hill is a great runner, and good athlete, but his
passing will need to be greatly improved to make him a true duel threat QB and
run Anae's offense efficiently.
Tough coming in with a lot of new faces, especially in the case of offensive
lineman. But last years performance warrants change and it sounds like coaches
are taking the approach that they have a good crop of players and it will be up
to them to see if they can coach them up and get them ready for the new
offensive calls. We will need high performance from this group to
accomplish things this year. This is one area we will improve on over last