Worf,I will try and educate you, but I am not sure I am up to the
task.You apparently think that the public education system is
responsible for everything in a person's life from cradle to grave. If you
are on welfare its public educations fault, if you are greedy its public
educations fault, if you are a corrupt government employee its because of public
education. I thought you believed in personal responsibility.In
terms of a skilled workforce quit believing the propaganda from big business its
an excuse to bring in foreign workers at a lower wage. Lets be real clear on
who engineered my cellphone and computer and who built it, same thing goes for
my car transmission and engine. Nearly all new products in all fields are
created in America, by Americans, now many of those products are produced in
other countries because of lower labor costs.Conservatives need
someone to blame and right now that is public education. How about solving
problems instead of blaming.
Fred44:A blind man can see this:* Government
mismanagement--public educated folks, voted in our leaders.* Corporate
greed came from public educated people.* Public educated people are
followers of the media, and are generally dependent non-thinkers. The media,
and schools shape public opinion, and values. Scary! * Public education
hasn't produced a sufficient amount of skilled workers. Much of our
engineers, chemists, and medical personal are from other countries. American car
engines, and transmissions are engineered by foreigners. Who made your cell
phone, and computer?Educate me Fred44. In the passed twenty five
years,--how has public education been beneficial to our nation? Has it reduced,
or increased poverty?
Worf,Corporate greed and government mismanagement starting with
Reagonomics is the cause of our economic problems. Corporate profits are at all
time highs and our economy is in the tank. Corporations are sitting on gigantic
sums of money. The stock market is flying at all time levels and our economy is
in the tank. Help me understand how public education is cause of the problem.
Howard Beal:Our economy is evidence of weak education.Cooperative learning is mandated grouping. Grouping takes away independence,
and creativity, while promoting accountability, and dependence. This concept
was tried in Russia, and Communist China with no success, and were abolished in
1956.I'm not saying all group work is bad, but it should not be
mandated. Thomas Edison voluntarily picked his associates, rather then having
them assigned. Big difference with Independent grouping vs. Micro Managed groups
to bring along the slow achievers. Some students will still succeed, but to a
lesser degree. The amount of poverty, and dependence in this country, reflects
the success of cooperative learning. Overall, it didn't work, and common
won't either.IMO the 1800's saw much progress, because man
gained greater freedom of thought, and behavior.That freedom of
thought, and behavior are now being limited with tests, and accountability.
That's what happens with having a central power.
Do you have a sources (three of them would be good) that says a third of our
college graduates are foreign students? Often conservative bloggers such as
yourself like to spout off statistics from unreliable sources. If you can come
up with three reliable sources to prove this premise, which you seem to think we
should all accept at face value, I'll give you credit.As for
public education, it has many, many problems and I do actually agree with you on
many of these. I agree with you on state mandated testing and the myriad of
reforms that have come across teachers. However, I feel most problems in public
education aren't coming from the feds but come from society devaluing
education and teachers and blaming teachers. The lack of holding parents and
students accountable for their learning is coming home to roost. In Utah in
particular, the lack of funding is really hurting teachers and their ability to
just manage their classes. Having classes of 40-45 students of divergent needs
is way too trying and gives our state its unique challenges.
In five to ten years, common core will be forgotten history, and half our
population will still be on welfare. Nothing improves if you keep making the
same mistakes.Anyone remember cooperative learning? Lot of good
that did, with now a third of our college graduates coming from other countries.
Worf: Some would say we have a couple of Ivy League Presidents (both who went to
private schools most of their lives) to blame for the 17 trillion dollar debt
and high unemployment...Also, I would bet most of the innovations
and inventions, which America still leads the way, came from people who probably
attended public schools.As for cooperative learning, not sure how it
necessarily a colossal waste of time you think it is. Like any teaching
modality, it can (and is) be overused, but it also has its place. It also
reflects how innovations actually come about and the practices used in business.
Most people don't work alone, they work with others in teams.Thomas Edison didn't really invent thousands of things. He developed
Menlo Park and brought in literally hundreds of people who invented thousands of
things. Now I'm not silly enough to say Edison benefitted from public
education (of the time) because he didn't, but I think he also understood
the value of synergy. To me that was the real genius of Edison, he brought
educated and innovative people together and used cooperative and competitive
learning strategies to get incredible results.
Evidence of a poor education system:* Over half our people on
welfare* High unemployment* A third of our college graduates from
other countries* Seventeen trillion dollar debt* American car
engines, and transmissions engineered by foreigners.* Education is more
accountability, and subjection then learning.Where's the common
sense? We trust the feds who caused this mess?It's like taking
a car to a bad mechanic over, and over again, and thinking it's going to be
done right. In the same time, you keep paying, and paying.In five to
ten years, common core will be history, and another worthless idea will pop
up.Remember cooperative learning. What a time wasting, expensive
This common core debate is beyond hilarious.The supporters have no
idea if it will improve educator. Its detractors have no clue either and fill
the debate with so much misinformation its beyond ludicrous. Bottom
line, the debate is no more than shuffling the chairs on the education Titanic.
Unless parents and students become more accountable for their education than it
won't matter if it's the common core or the apple core.
I'm not sure exactly what the common core is doing with math and science
and literacy. But as a Social Studies teacher, we still plan on teaching U.S.
History and U.S. Government...
Anytime state sovereignty is signed away to the Federal government bad things
happen. Good government exists ONLY when voters can make changes when necessary
and they can't do that when Federal bureaucrats are in control. Note that
we are talking big union, socialist oriented Federal employees and political
appointees who believe a big Federal government is the answer to just about
everything and that local control is their enemy.
The problem is not the Common Core or any other conspiracy theory- ohh if
schools were so powerful as to be able to make your children into what they
want- I wish I had that power- concerned about your childs education- then read
to them, explore ideas with them, engage in what they are doing and you will
find your influence far greater than any of the fears you have and you might
just find they can think for themselves and learn- but ohhh I forgot that would
take effort and afterall who wants to do that- stop blaming schools for your
failure and look at your own homes and neighborhoods since afterall most of you
declare that is where the most importnat learning takes place.
Frankly, we have too many "college graduates" that can't find work.
We have too many technical and skilled labor jobs that can't find workers
to fill them. Everybody wants a "college degree" - nobody wants a
technical job, so the work goes overseas. Machinists and Technicians are needed
to grow our hard goods economy. If America remains a "service" or
"white collar" dominated country, then we will be limited to provide
goods to export or use in our own economy. I don't know about Common
Core testing for competency in History - I'm afraid that American History
has already been hijacked by progressive liberals that don't want focus on
the US Constitution, Founding Principles, Free-market Capitalist systems,
Individual Exceptionalism, and Entrepreneural examples that can be contrasted
with socialism, communism and "no one is a winner" programs that have
weakened our children's vision of excellence and to reach your full
potential through hardwork and sacrifice. Whatever is on the Common Core
Tests, that's what teachers will be forced to teach.
When are Utah citizens going to 'fix' the problems themselves, instead
of giving someone else, in this case, the federal government, all the power and
resources to do it? If in fact the Common Core Curriculum is something that
needs to be accepted, passed, and supported, what does that say about the
support that was giving to all the other federal 'answers'that were
supported in the past that were going to 'fix' the problems? Come on
people, wake up! Where are the independent, liberty minded, citizens of this
state that will look the federal government in the face and say, "You know,
I enjoy my liberty and I think Utah can figure this out all by itself, thank
you!" Why jump on a ship that is practically sunk! Why do the so-called
Constitutionally minded Utahns support something that isn't even in the
The problem isn't Common Core. It is the school board and legislature
always making drastic changes EACH year to either the curriculum or testing that
has harmed students the most. The state has made it impossible to accurately
determine whether an individual student is making progress from year to year.
Common Core itself is a baseline of minimum standards for math,
reading and science. There is nothing wrong with establishing a bare minimum of
proficiency is there? School boards, schools and individual teachers should go
beyond what the core asks. If that isn't happening for your individual
student, ask questions and find answers to the problem to help your child.
Kommin Kore Kriklum Werks 4 Me!With the implementation of these
"standards" this year, my kids have been taught much of the same thing
they learned the previous year.It seems like this, that, and the
other government department is regularly trying to fix education, and it's
good that these various organizations are trying, but they will all fail until
we get a collective moral backbone.In coming years after this latest
attempt at standardization is weighed objectively, the current proponents will
have to consent to failure.When we decide to reintroduce God into
our learning, we will succeed. From what I've seen thus far, this, that,
and the other government department have the opposite of that on their
agenda.Kommin Kore Kriklum doesn't do anything to change our
We don't need a "common core" to raise standards. There are many
subject areas that are not covered in the common core. Focusing so much on the
common core will lead to less instructional time in other areas such as music
and foreign language. Studies have consistetly shown that more time in these
"elective" areas does more to raise math scores than more time on math
Spoesmen for Utah extremist should remember that the Civil Was reinforced the
founding fathers decision to establish Federalism as our form of government and
Utah applied for statehood to participate.
@UgradBYUfanBarack Obama explained the vision of common core to be
exactly like the German education system. State of the Union address and I
quote-"Right now, countries like Germany focus on graduating
their high school students with the equivalent of a technical degree from one of
our community colleges" ........."And four years ago, we started Race to
the Top -- a competition that convinced almost every state to develop smarter
curricula and higher standards, all for about 1 percent of what we spend on
education each year."The curricula isn't higher in its
standards and that has been proven, but the standards are only a fraction of the
issue. The larger issue is the testing where they will quantify you and qualify
your for whatever the testing says. In Germany this testing takes place all the
way up to ninth grade where they place you in programs according to the testing.
This means if you are a late bloomer or disabled you can kiss your
college dreams goodbye because in Germany you have to pass their test to get in
to university, there is no choice!
to The Hammer "Common core would restrict freedom to choose your
career."You mean we would do away with the Community college
route for getting into a university? You are an alarmist.
Universities are filled with students that took a longer route into a
university. The problem now, is that the top 10% of students going into
universities require so much remediation that the cost of higher education is
going through the roof. The common core is aimed at improving the university
readiness. Forget your conspiracy theories!
Bomar"It's not about providing a good education to our youth, but
for the Department of Education to control what is taught. Trust me, the
families of Utah are far more qualified to determine how the children are
educated."There is nothing in the common core that tells
educators how or what to teach. These are benchmarks as to where students need
to be at each level. Trust me, I have read the common core standards and it
never says how educators should teach, only what the outcomes should be for
students at certain grade levels. The common core requires students
to read and write at a higher level than they need to at the state level.
Students are required to give evidence and make citations for arguments about
relevant issues (which would be a big step up for the parents that are calling
for withdrawal from common core implementation)I don't see how
setting the bar a little higher translates into surrendering local control to
the Feds. We seem to be screaming "We don't want our students to be
@all hands on deckThe argument "Bill Gates is for it, so I need to be
against it" doesn't exactly hold water. Your other points might if they
were true (which I doubt). Do you have sources?@Bomar22In what
way does the Common Core "eliminate the teaching of American History"?
More generally, the Common Core is a set of benchmarks that encourage career and
college readiness. Individual teaching and curriculum is still up to each
district and even teacher.@fowersjlAre you sure the the
decline in your grandchildren's performance is due solely to the Common
Core? There are many factors that could be affecting it, from individual
teachers to your grandchildren's peers. Honestly, it sounds more like a
teaching issue than a curriculum issue (kudos to your daughter by the way!).@The HammerThe Common Core is mostly a set of standardized
benchmarks meant to prepare children for careers and higher education. It in NO
WAY defines which profession kids should pursue, and it in NO WAY obligates
children to a specific field of study/career. If you think otherwise, I'm
afraid you are misinformed.
My observations as an actively involved parent are that the the Common Core is
EXACTLY what Utah needs! After a lengthy discussion with my kids' local
teacher who is actively involved in the roll-out of the Common Core at the state
level, I have a better understanding of what it is and what it isn't. The
Common Core integrates the teaching of related subjects into a more complete
methodology, it better benchmarks student performance for increased
transparency, and most importantly, it refocuses our state's teaching and
curriculum on career and college readiness. All this, while still leaving the
control directly in the hands of our local districts and teachers.Please, if you have doubts, study it out first! Do not rely on misinformation
(even some of which is being propagated in this comment board!). Talk to your
local teacher. Call your local district. Reach out to the state education
office. Our state's future, our children, NEED the Common Core.
There are Common Core Standards and then Utah Core Standards. These are not
Iowa's or Idaho's.
Common core would turn our school system into Germany's school system.
Germany school system starts determining kids futures when they are in Junior
high and at the end of Junior high you take your final test to determine if you
can go to college or if you go to a trade school. Mostly you do not have a
choice once you reach this point as your career choices are limited to whatever
path you test into in 9th grade! If you have disabilities, or are a
slow learner, or slow maturer (as most boys are) or you don't do well in
the set school environment they place you into, you will never have the choice
to attend college you will be stuck in some trade that you may or may not like
for the rest of your life. Additionally your pay will be limited
because the labor market will be full of workers and their will be very few
innovators who have access to knowledge. All the corporations would have all
the labor they need to keep wages low. Oligarchies would abound like Walmart,
GM, Chase, Microsoft and Exxon.Common core would restrict freedom to
choose your career.
Here's one of the problems with Common Core: phasing out parent involvement
in their child's schooling. My children who have children in Utah public
schools have all commented on it. My child who has children in Iowa public
schools is very frustrated with what is happening. She home-schooled her kids
until this last year. They tested very high when she put them into public
schools this past year. Their scores have continued to drop ever since. She is
quite alarmed and is pulling the kids back out for next year and going back to
home schooling. So, my observations about Common Core are based merely on what
is being reported to me by several children about my grandchildren, and the
reports are not good.
The residents of Utah should demand that Common Core be stopped dead in its
tracks. It eliminates the teaching of American History and rewrites much of our
Founding Fathers good work. It's not about providing a good
education to our youth, but for the Department of Education to control what is
taught. Trust me, the families of Utah are far more qualified to determine how
the children are educated. Ask yourself, "What has the Department of
Education done to better the Utah educational experience"?Education is
a states rights issue and should not be relinquished to the Feds.
Yesterday's news: one Utah high school in the nation's top 396. Today's news: Microsoft and Intel asking for exemptions to immigration
laws so they can have 5,200 American jobs with immigrants. Utah's Common Core battle has been cast as a good vs. evil political
battle. It is nothing of the sort. It's about particpating with 44 other
states in a coordinated effort to better equip our kids to compete in the world
-- while maintaining flexibility and local control.The State School
Board's call for support would not be necessary if a few more legislators
had the courage to stand up to the tin-foil-hat factions of thier
constituencies. The opponents have been relentless in their misinformation
campaign. If even half the energy put into opposing the standards and concocting
conspiracies was put instead into volunteering at local schools, Utah schools
would be at the top of the list.
1)From personal experience, common core has dumbed down math college
preparedness levels.2)From personal experience, common core has begun to
integrate the elimination of American Exceptionalism.3)Common core science
standards will utilize the bogus science surrounding man made climate change.
Especially once the testing standards start asking questions around climate
change.4)Common core has been pushed by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT through
incentives contrary to what our state board tells us.5)Bill Gates and his
foundation has also supplied hundreds of millions of dollars toward common core.
He is not conservative. Common Core is NOT good for Utah.