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Utes finding continued success with in-state recruiting focus

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  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2013 2:18 p.m.

    "If winning the Sun Bowl was so "significant", then why weren't the Utes ranked in the Final AP Top 20 when teams like Northwestern(4-2-2), Fordham(6-1-2), Cornell(5-1-1), and Tulane(7-2-1) were all considered good enough to be ranked."

    You understand the internet didn't exist back them right? All of those teams you mentioned were Eastern teams. And you must also realize that most of the AP is based in the East. The fact that a team from Utah was even noticed enough to get a bowl invite back in 1939 is significant.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 15, 2013 1:20 a.m.

    anti BCS, don't attribute something someone says to somebody that didn't say it.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    May 14, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    navelvet / Spokane Ute / StGtoSLC

    "Count me in as another Ute fan/alumnus who counts beating Ga. Tech in the 2011 Sun Bowl as a substantially greater accomplishment than beating our little brother...again."

    LOL at the delusional spin coming from the hill.

    Only a desperate Utah fan would try to argue that beating unranked/#56 Georgia Tech was a greater accomplishment than beating #25/#26/#34 BYU, especially when the Utes are so completely obsessed with any win against the Cougars.

    Of course that makes Utah's 2011 come-from-behind 3-point neutral site win over #56 Georgia Tech pale in comparison to BYU's 2012 dominating 24-point road win over #46 Georgia Tech.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    StGtoSLC

    "Just being invited to the Sun Bowl in its infancy was a pretty big deal, as it was one of only five postseason football games, and winning it was even bigger. Tell me how that isn't 'of any significance'."

    You obviously don't know much about the history of bowl games.

    Bowl games were so lightly regarded in the leather helmet era of college football, that Notre Dame, despite playing in the 1924 Rose Bowl, didn't even play in a bowl game from 1925 to 1970, including 7 of their 11 national championship seasons - 1929, 1930, 1943, 1946, 1947, 1949, and 1966.

    If winning the Sun Bowl was so "significant", then why weren't the Utes ranked in the Final AP Top 20 when teams like Northwestern(4-2-2), Fordham(6-1-2), Cornell(5-1-1), and Tulane(7-2-1) were all considered good enough to be ranked.

    Sorry, but Utah(7-1-2) finishing 4-0-2 in a weak conference and beating lowly New Mexico(8-3) in the Sun Bowl wasn't nearly as significant as you would like to believe it was.

    BYU(4-3-1) TIED your "Sun Bowl winning" Utes 7-7.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 14, 2013 10:22 a.m.

    @Cougsndawgs fan

    I guess it's hard to even consider beating your rival significant; when you can't beat them. It must be demoralizing to get beat year, after year, after year eh? Just being "Frank"!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 14, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    So Utah fans have to go to 2011 for something to be more proud of than beating BYU. That says it all. Frankly I count a 24 point beat down of Georgia tech in their house and watching them thrash USC LAST YEAR as a greater accomplishment than anything our adopted ugly cousin did in either if the previous two years.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 14, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    Spokane Ute:

    Count me in as another Ute fan/alumnus who counts beating Ga. Tech in the 2011 Sun Bowl as a substantially greater accomplishment than beating our little brother...again.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 14, 2013 7:26 a.m.

    @StGtoSLC

    Thanks for setting the record straight; nice research, nice post.

    Personally, I would say beating Georgia Tech is the Sun Bowl is certainly more significant than beating BYU. Beating BYU is common place lately!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 14, 2013 1:26 a.m.

    "Ike Armstrong may have earned a life-time achievement award, but none of his teams did anything special."

    His teams won 13 conference championships with 3 perfect seasons and 2 other undefeated seasons. No, the Rocky Mountain and Mountain States conferences were not premier college conferences, but Armstrong's Utah teams put the state on the map in football. Just being invited to the Sun Bowl in its infancy was a pretty big deal, as it was one of only five postseason football games, and winning it was even bigger. Tell me how that isn't "of any significance."

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 13, 2013 10:23 p.m.

    SoortsAuthority:
    I agree, Utah was not invited to the PAC 12 because of athletics. They were invited because they are a tier one research institution and the PAC 12 wanted the SLC market. BYU didn't meet the research criteria or fit the political profile the PAC 12 wanted so Utah was really their only choice in this market. Utah is a very good school, and definitely tier one research so it makes sense the PAC went after them...they were deserving in terms of what the PAC 12 wanted.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 13, 2013 8:56 p.m.

    MyPerspective

    It's interesting that despite Utah fans' constant boasting about the quality of Utah's athletic programs, it's clear that Utah's "athletic excellence" had very little to do with Utah's invitation to the PAC 12.

    The irony is that despite claims of Utah leaving BYU in the dust, the truth is, Utah's only significant accomplishment since joining the PAC is beating BYU.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 13, 2013 8:43 p.m.

    StGtoSLC

    "Despite BYU fans' ignorance, Utah had accomplished plenty on a national scale before the 70s"

    Really???

    What exactly did Utah accomplish on a national scale prior to 1994?

    The Utes only played in two bowls prior to 1992, neither of any significance.

    Ike Armstrong may have earned a life-time achievement award, but none of his teams did anything special.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 13, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    Winning the in state recruiting battle is key. Utah has, and continues to do just that. No conference is going to invite a team that dictates when, and when they will not play games. That among other issues keep BYU on the outside looking in when it comes to the BCS; and I love it! The nomads of college football. But hey look on the bright side; when 6 games, or 11 and the Kraft Macaroni and Cheese bowl awaits. Nice!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 12, 2013 11:38 p.m.

    StGtoSLC: Correct on byu's 1996 team though it's impossible to compare the quality of teams from different years. Lavell accomplished two things: 1) changed the college game to a passing attack, and 2) got out of coaching as the game was about to pass by byu. 1996 was Lavell's swan song.

    TheSportsAuthority: Interesting that you qualified byu's academic excellence as "undergraduate." You will get no argument on that point. byu undergrad scores well by US News (it is dirt cheap for LDS members). Beyond undergrad, byu's portfolio of Master and PhD programs is paper thin. Compare the grad programs of byu to Utah and Utah St in US News. You will find that outside of the MBA, byu lags even Utah St. Utah is in class by itself in the state and aligns well with Pac-12 schools.

    Regarding research, byu never was, is not now, or ever will be a tier 1 research institution. The infrastructure simply isn't there. byu focused on sports for 50 years. Congratulations on the broadcast facility but the bar set by the Pac-12 is well out of reach for byu.

    Epic failure for byu fails on criterion 1 and 2.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 12, 2013 10:13 p.m.

    My Perspective, to be fair, BYU's best team in history, and possibly the best team in the state's history was 1996, but I get your point. BYU's football legacy from the mid-70s to the mid-to late-90s is a great one, and not recognizing it is as big a mistake as when I refused to recognize how great a player Michael Jordan was as a kid simply because I wanted the Jazz to beat him so badly. But before then, BYU was just awful, and since then hasn't been anything special on a national scale.

    Despite BYU fans' ignorance, Utah had accomplished plenty on a national scale before the 70s, and obviously became a nationally recognizable program in 2004. Ike Armstrong was already College Football Hall of Famer when Lavell was still coaching Granite High School. Coach Jack Curtice was a major influence in innovating football offense with a dynamic passing attack in the 50s and 60s. Utah ranks number one in Division I in bowl winning percentage out of teams with at least 10 bowl appearances at .765.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 12, 2013 9:44 p.m.

    MyPerspective

    Sorry to burst your crimson bubble, but the Utes have practically no history prior to 1994, when the Utes cracked the AP Poll for the very first time, and nothing between then and 2004 when the Utes finally had back-to-back Top 25 finishes for the first time.

    1) Academics - not even close to BYU in undergraduate excellence
    2) Research - BYU is a high research institution
    3) Athletic Prowess - BYU far exceeds the Utes in overall athletic prowess - in the 20-year history of the NACDA Directors' Cup, which honors institutions maintaining a broad-based program and achieving success in many sports, both men's and women's, the Utes have NEVER finished ahead of BYU.

    The only reason BYU wasn't invited to join the PAC is because a couple of schools vehemently opposed inviting any private, religious-based institution to the PAC - which is why Colorado was hastily invited to shut Baylor out of the the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger.

    BYU would have added a much bigger Utah and national market, but the PAC was willing to settle for Utah just to get a piece of the Utah market.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    May 12, 2013 8:11 p.m.

    Rockwell: "...completely ignoring the fact that the Utes have practically no football history worth talking about prior to 2004..." Wrong. There is little history between late 1970s and mid-1990s.

    tdlawton (bottom page 4) states: "BYU fans have preserved the dream/myth that 21 year period from 1972 to 1992 was normal, when I as a Ute fan see that the history of the series 53-31-4 for Utah." He's right. I think the real question you need to answer is...what has byu done since 1992? The answer is - little to nothing.

    Your assertion, "...the kids on the hill insist on spewing that Utah's PAC invitation was some sort of football "accomplishment" is completely false. The Pac-10 Presidents and Chancellors were very clear (and Utah fans readily acknowledge) that the criteria upon which the invitation to the Pac-12 was based is:

    1) Academics
    2) Research
    3) Athletic Prowess

    More than just accomplishments on the football field over the last 10 years was necessary for an invitation to the elite Pac-12 Conference.

    Since you brought up TV markets, Naval Vet asks a legitimate question. You can't have it both ways.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 12, 2013 4:23 p.m.

    Rockwell:

    So you're saying that Utah's television market is larger than the Indy-WACers?

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    May 12, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    tdlawton

    I laugh a Utah fans and their complete obsession with the BYU-Utah head-to-head results, while completely ignoring the fact that the Utes have practically no football history worth talking about prior to 2004, have only FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history, and have never won a single national team or individual award of any kind - no national championships, no Heisman Trophies, no national individual awards, and no national hall of fame inductees.

    What's even more laughable is the continued false narrative that the kids on the hill insist on spewing that Utah's PAC invitation was some sort of football "accomplishment". Sorry, but BlG/PAC invitations to Colorado, Utah, Rutgers and Maryland is proof positive that invitations to "big boy" conference are based entirely on television markets and have absolutely nothing to do with football success.

  • tdlawton Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 12, 2013 7:42 a.m.

    Good content!... As for the squabbling in the comments? *Shrug* It reminds me of the current state of politics, no one wants a "conversation" they just want to mindlessly repeat a couple of "talking points" hoping to convince someone out there in cyberspace that "their" team is the team of the future.

    I don't know the future, but in 1992 I doubt many BYU fans would believe that BYU's period of total dominance (19-2 vs. Utah) was about to come to a crashing end. Still the facts are the facts and in the last 20 years Utah has gone 13-7 vs. BYU, had had 2 undefeated BCS-busing seasons, and received a Pac-12 invitation.

    It always seems to me that many BYU fans have preserved the dream/myth that 21 year period from 1972 to 1992 was normal, when I as a Ute fan see that the history of the series 53-31-4 for Utah. In fact if you take away than period of BYU's dominance the series would be 51-12-4... Taking the really long view Utah Football being better than BYU Football seems to be the more more normal state.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    May 11, 2013 10:44 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    BYU may be 3-8-1 all time against Colorado, BUT, the last time BYU lost to Colorado was 7-9 waaaaaay back in 1947. Since then, BYU has beaten Colorado in Boulder 41-20 and in the Freedom Bowl 20-17.

    Unlike the sorry Utes, who couldn't get past a 10-loss Colorado AT HOME with the PAC South there for the taking.

    As far as ranked teams go, it's far more important, to BE a ranked team, than to beat a ranked team. Utah was winless against ranked teams in 2012 and hasn't come close to being ranked since joining the PAC.

    Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 18
    Utah 7

    Top 25 Finishes during the Independent/PAC era
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    It's laughable that you obsess about bowl viewership for BYU's bowl, while completely ignoring the fact that there was ZERO viewership for Utah's bowl.

  • cougar76 Raleigh, NC
    May 11, 2013 10:39 a.m.

    jdub1942
    If all you want is to out-recruit BYU instate, you will be in the 12-pack cellar for a long time.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 10, 2013 5:23 p.m.

    toosmartforyou
    Farmington, UT
    AZUTE1 said: "The irony here, in addition to it all not even remotely based upon facts, is that byu registers an annual loss to UTAH."

    Utah is in the bottom third of the PAC 12 in Football last year: FACT.
    Utah has not yet won 10 PAC 12 Conference games since joining the conference: FACT.
    Utah lost the opportunity to qualify for the PAC 12 Inagural Championship Game their first season when they lost to Colorado in SLC: FACT.
    Norm Chow, hailed as the great offensive wizard, was the O.C. during that game: FACT.
    USC was on probation, UCLA lost and Utah only had to defeat Colorado: FACT.
    Colorado had the worst major college football team in the country, winless for 4 years, when they beat Utah in SLC: FACT.
    Utah was .000 against Colorado, now are .500 against them, not a winning record: FACT.

    The irony is you have crimson colored glasses to view the world. Nice try.

    __________

    BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado. FACT.
    Not very smart for you to bring them up. FACT.
    BYU has a terrible record against ranked teams the past several years. FACT.
    USUs bowl game had a higher viewer rating than BYUs. FACT

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 10, 2013 2:51 p.m.

    Uteology:
    Fallacy is claiming that the rivalry began in 1972

    Nope fallacy is what you just did. Make a weak statement and attribute it to me so you can easily refute it. Show me where I said the series began in 1972. We were talking about periods of time and dominance between the two schools. I wasn't aware that there were time limitations or parameters on the argument. Fail, reset button. Go let Naval Vet punish you because he knows what you just did and can tell you (except when he commits it himself). And Naval Vet I'm not trying to pick on you. But you call out BYU fans, especially duck hunter for Strawman all the time and I've never said anything because you're usually right. Which is why I know you know better than to do it yourself with BYU fans. Btw you also must know that trying to make a statement about what a large group of people think, say, or feel (like BYU fans) is a Strawman 99.9% of the time- "Indy-WACey fans had been touting their 3-of-4 as "dominance". That's a given". Thats a Strawman. GO COUGS! I'm out

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 10, 2013 1:22 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    However to your point, no I didn't think BYUs 3 out of 4 from 06-09 to be dominant, those were hard fought battles. BYUs 23-7 record from 1972-2002 was dominant, with multiple blowouts including the widest margin (50) and the most points (70) in this series.

    -----------

    Fallacy is claiming that the rivalry began in 1972.

    Speaking of dominance, I think you would agree that going 34-2-4 with 13 shutouts and a 49 point victory (49-0) is more impressive.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 10, 2013 12:58 p.m.

    Naval Vet:
    Indy-WACey fans had been touting their 3-of-4 as "dominance". That's a given.

    According to you that's a given. Myself as well as many of my friends who are BYU fans didn't tout that as dominance. I even gave you my definition of dominance above. "Try reading for content next time". Here's your Strawman (or one of them) you make a statement as "a given" when it clearly isn't. You can try these emotional games on someone else (try democrats that's always fun) but they won't work here.

    "YOU'RE the one who frantically and emotionally tied the two given statements together into one. The strawman was YOURS! "

    I'm the one that tied them together? Tell me, who asked this question (again)- "So why were you "dominate" when you all won 3 of 4, but "evenly matched" when WE do? Oops, I think you tied them together fabulously with your question. Again these games and your emotional spin have been entertaining but as truthsandwich insinuated, it's old and boring now.

    To wrap up, Utah has dominated my Cougs and it's time for the streak to end. GO COUGS

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 10, 2013 12:10 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs:

    Indy-WACey fans had been touting their 3-of-4 as "dominance". That's a given. WACfaninTX is now suggesting OUR 3-of-4 is "evenly matched". That's a given. Never had I suggested that WACfaninTX stated his 3-of4 was "dominance". That's a given. YOU'RE the one who frantically and emotionally tied the two given statements together into one. The strawman was YOURS! WACfaninTX failed to defend his "evenly matched" assessment, and neither had he attempted to try to explain why his fanbase can't maintain any consistency in differentiating "dominance" from "evenly matched", so it seems he's now abandoned that fantasy.

    You're just upset because you found out that the finger you tried waving at me was directly pointed at you. That's what you get for acting out all frantic and emotionally. Try reading for content next time.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 10, 2013 11:15 a.m.

    @truthsandwich
    Haha, actually very true. It's all harmless banter in the end. I will end it by simply saying what we all know will come next. A denial of any fallacy by Naval Vet, despite logical conclusion to the contrary and then endless questioning about who he was talking to and how either way it misrepresented CougfaninTX or BYU fans in general, his denial that he attributed anything to anyone despite his question which alludes to the contrary, and finally my giving up trying to reason with someone who will never give in regardless of reason. There I saved everyone the trouble.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    May 10, 2013 10:31 a.m.

    I love how after about 70 comments or so, the conversation always devolves into something like this ^^^^^^

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 10, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    @Naval Vet
    Then who were you asking this question to if not CougfaninTX?- "So why were you "dominate" when you all won 3 of 4, but "evenly matched" when WE do?
    This question was to CougfaninTX was it not? Does not the question imply that CougfaninTX believed BYUs 3 out of 4 to be "dominant"? Or were you questioning BYU fans in general and then attributing CougfaninTX's "evenly matched" opinion to them? Either way, it's Strawman regardless of your frantic and emotional "typical hypocritical coug" spin. You made a statement that was never CougfaninTX's opinion, or attributed his "evenly matched" statement to BYU fans in general, can't have it both ways, and either way is fallacy. You're a smart guy, you know what you did. The hard part is always admitting it.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 10, 2013 7:26 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs:

    "Wow a Strawman fallacy from the guy who accuses everyone else of it. You can't make a blanket statement about what BYU fans said during BYUs 3 out of 4 run and then attribute that statement to CougfaninTX..."

    I never attributed what the fans of Utah's little brother said to WACfaninTX. I attributed it to the fans of Utah's little brother. That was a strawman fallacy on your part. And YOU'RE calling ME out for a strawman? Typical hypocritical coug.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    May 9, 2013 9:34 p.m.

    @toosmartforyou regarding: Colorado had the worst major college football team in the country, winless for 4 years, when they beat Utah in SLC: FACT.

    Suggest you get a better understanding of FACT. The comment that Colorado had the worst major college football team is clearly an opinion. There is no quantitative evaluation to make this a fact.

    Additionally you also are incorrect in the second part of your statement as Colorado was not winless for 4 years when they beat Utah. They won 2 games before playing Utah in 2011, 5 in 2010, 3 in 2009, and 5 in 2008. Winless is the Y vs. the U the past 3 year and that is a correct fact.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 9, 2013 5:54 p.m.

    AZUTE
    I think u will find that most fans have selective amnesia not just BYU fans. And btw I don't think a game can end on offsetting penalties. Not that it would have made any difference with our lousy kicker.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 9, 2013 5:50 p.m.

    @Naval Vet
    "So why were you "dominate" when you all won 3 of 4, but "evenly matched" when WE do? Especially considering the "real numbers" involved. For example..."
    Wow a Strawman fallacy from the guy who accuses everyone else of it. You can't make a blanket statement about what BYU fans said during BYUs 3 out of 4 run and then attribute that statement to CougfaninTX by asking the above question, then refute his "evenly matched" opinion using your statement about what BYU fans said. CougfaninTX didn't make that statement (or at least you don't know that he did) so u can't refute him by referring to it. He may have had the "evenly matched" opinion in both instances. Looking forward to your spin. However to your point, no I didn't think BYUs 3 out of 4 from 06-09 to be dominant, those were hard fought battles. BYUs 23-7 record from 1972-2002 was dominant, with multiple blowouts including the widest margin (50) and the most points (70) in this series. Now if you want to take what I actually said there instead of replacing it with a statement about other cougar fans we can avoid any fallacies.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 9, 2013 4:35 p.m.

    It never fails to humor me how the byu fanbase conveniently has full-blown amnesia when it comes to the first 3+ Quarters of last year's game. We were up, 24-7, into the 4th-Quarter, before we removed our foot from the pedal and began lazily committing 100% unforced mental errors, thereby allowing byu to believe they could actually pull-off the type of miracle they've managed to achieve recently against usu at home. From the 100% unforced botched punt, to our two backup Safeties doing the unthinkable and doing what our two former Freshman All-America Safties sitting out the entire game would've never allowed to take place in letting that byu receiver get behind them late, in order to allow byu to extend their drive, which also was a 100% unforced mental error.

    Then, to have a penalty called on us after Star easily blocked that 1st FG-Attempt, when footage clearly showed that the non-participant on the field closest to the live football was none other than bm, himself, as well as a bunch of other non-participants from the byu sideline. Offsetting-penalties and byu never gets to doink that second-attempt.

  • New to Utah PAYSON, UT
    May 9, 2013 4:18 p.m.

    BYU needs to get at least half of the instate top talent, Utah is clearly doing a much better job of recruiting. This article brings clarity as to why Utah has been consistently beating BYU . They get the emotional edge by getting the best in state football players. BYU needs to compete hard for these players and get commits.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 9, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    @toosmartforyou

    What hurts worse----almost making it and losing your last season game at home or not even being in the mix, like last year.

    ---------------

    Neither, it's part of growing pains with lack of PAC-12 depth, in particular at QB. But as the article notes getting the top in-state recruits will help us improve in our new league.

    What hurts more?

    A) Printing 50,000 Quest T-Shirts only to get rolled by your rival as they accomplish your Quest?

    B) Being in 40+ years of discussions with the Big 12 or PAC-10 for 40 years only to get passed over by your rival.

    I will be patiently waiting for your response.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 9, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    WACfaninTX:

    I recall back during the 2010 preseason, after the cougars had won 3 of the (then) last 4, how your fans would make numerous posts as to how "dominate" you all had been. But somehow, after the UTES completed a "3 of the last 4" series, all of a sudden, our programs are "pretty evenly matched"...at least in your opinion.

    So why were you "dominate" when you all won 3 of 4, but "evenly matched" when WE do? Especially considering the "real numbers" involved. For example...

    (1) During YOUR "3 of 4", you won by an average of 4-pts, but during OUR "3 of 4" we won by an average of 16.

    (2) During YOUR "3 of 4" one game went into O/T, whereas during OURs, all were won in regulation.

    (3) During YOUR "3 of 4", you were STILL outscored 112-100. During OURs you outscored 118-73.

    (4) During YOUR "3 of 4", your recruiting classes were (Rivals) ranked an average of #57 (to our #52), whereas during OUR "3 of 4", ours averaged #35 (to your #58).

    How can you spin that in your favor?

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    May 9, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    Why thank you Tators - I am obsessed with Utah, the team I cheer for and own season tickets to see. That is the normal way things work. For that reason, I do not troll tds stories.

    Why are you obsessed with Utah??

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    May 9, 2013 9:32 a.m.

    In spite of all the bickering between Utes and Cougs, this article is almost spot on. Twenty years ago, there were not a lot of top caliber athletes coming out of Utah, but today there are. And whether we like it or not, Utes are winning the in-state recruiting battle.

    There will always be some who want to come to BYU, but do not qualify academically (i.e. Star). There will always be some who do not want to live the honor code. But for those who qualify academically and are willing to live the honor code, BYU needs to out recruit Utah for the top talent in the state - like we are doing in basketball.

    This is not an admission that Utah is the better team or program. Sure U have won 3 of the last 4, but 3 of the last 4 have come down to the final play of the game. The programs are pretty evenly matched in my opinion.

    I'm optimistic about the players we have on the team, and in the pipeline, but we need to find ways to land a couple more of the top players from in-state.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 9, 2013 8:05 a.m.

    Recruiting is very subjective. A good class does not guarntee wins. However, I would rather have a good class than a average one.

    @ Vegas Ute

    Spon On Guy!

  • EdGrady Idaho Falls, ID
    May 9, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    I guess if you define "continued success" as a losing record and going to no bowls and finishing in the bottom half of your conference, then the utes have indeed found "continued success."

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    May 8, 2013 8:38 p.m.

    @toodumbforyou

    And what BCS conference is your team affiliated with? And how have you done against your rivals both recently and long-term?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    May 8, 2013 8:34 p.m.

    The real story Dan needs to cover is BYUs plummeting recruiting rankings since the announcement of independence, compared with Utah's improved recruiting ranking since joining the PAC12.

    College football is all about the talent and speed. And talent and speed are all about recruiting.

    When Cougar fans realize the opposite trend of Utah and BYUs last three recruiting classes they will understand the harm that independence is inflicting the BYUs program.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 8, 2013 7:36 p.m.

    The trend in recruiting over the past 3 years (since the U was admitted to the PAC-12) is the most disturbing evidence of how the "independent" status is regarded by football recruits. IMO!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 8, 2013 7:01 p.m.

    007, apology accepted. I realize you're not the only one who's ever done it on either side, but smack talk is for the fans, it shouldn't be directed at the kids. It'd be great if this was actually a forum where folks actually talked about the sports written about, and I'm guilty of getting into it with other fans, too, but that's the one thing that really gets to me is when people make character judgments on kids they likely have never met. Carry on, and good luck.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 8, 2013 6:51 p.m.

    I honestly don't care that Utah is out recruiting BYU right now. The simple solution for BYU is to win! Stop losing to your self proclaimed big brother, who's really just your annoying cousin with small-man-syndrome, and we will get the recruits. BYU owned Utah in the state for a long time. The fact Utah is on top now isn't surprising when we lose head to head. "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". And it's the only way to shut your annoying cousin's mouth. SO WIN!
    GO COUGS

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    May 8, 2013 6:43 p.m.

    Another FACT for VegasUte:

    Most of the Ute commentors on this site are literally obsessed with Utah, including yourself! The comments speak for themselves... truly obsessive.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    May 8, 2013 6:24 p.m.

    toosmartforyou is obsessed with Utah - FACT!

  • 007 Layton, UT
    May 8, 2013 5:15 p.m.

    AZUTE1 and others-

    I am sorry for my offensive behavior. I thought it would be fun to ruffle some feathers on here like I do with my ute fan friends. I didn't realize that the DesNews comment board is neither the time nor the place. Please find it in your hearts to forgive me.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    Bet this drives Cougar "fan" crazy.

    Keep up the good work Coach Whit.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    May 8, 2013 5:10 p.m.

    AZUTE1 said: "The irony here, in addition to it all not even remotely based upon facts, is that byu registers an annual loss to UTAH."

    Utah is in the bottom third of the PAC 12 in Football last year: FACT.
    Utah has not yet won 10 PAC 12 Conference games since joining the conference: FACT.
    Utah lost the opportunity to qualify for the PAC 12 Inagural Championship Game their first season when they lost to Colorado in SLC: FACT.
    Norm Chow, hailed as the great offensive wizard, was the O.C. during that game: FACT.
    USC was on probation, UCLA lost and Utah only had to defeat Colorado: FACT.
    Colorado had the worst major college football team in the country, winless for 4 years, when they beat Utah in SLC: FACT.
    Utah was .000 against Colorado, now are .500 against them, not a winning record: FACT.

    The irony is you have crimson colored glasses to view the world. Nice try.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 8, 2013 4:52 p.m.

    Gone fishin
    Murray, UT

    "AZUTE1, etc,
    How does it feel to have the same thing done to you that Chris B. does to BYU."

    You used the incorrect byu fan in your comparison. 007 is clearly not the one.

    "By the way the original PAC 10 schools do not respect Utah or Colorado as true members of the conference. Living in Utah has skewed Utah fans opinion of themselves. Until they can start to win they will not get the respect they so desire."

    I didn't realize you had been made the official spokesman for The PAC-12? When did this occur? What do you think the sentiment was back in '78, upon ASU/ua entering into The PAC-8/-10?

    This is clearly an act of desperation on your part, full of jealousy and envy.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    May 8, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    Gone Fishin,

    Just because a Utah fan (Chris) demonstrates bad behavior, it doesn't mean you should then justify bad behavior by Y fans. I have called out Chris B multiple times on these threads for crossing the line. I have never seen a BYU fan call out one of their own for crossing the line. Why don't you stand-up and be the first.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    May 8, 2013 4:46 p.m.

    @Gone fishin

    "Actually, I am better connected to the Pac 10 than you know."

    So connected that you don't know the name of the conference.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    May 8, 2013 4:45 p.m.

    Chris B is always good for a laugh with some of his comments. He seems to live to criticize BYU while keeping his blinders on regarding the Utes. Let's analyze a bit:

    He "loves their PAC12 membership". Really? Even if that means being the perennial doormat, as has been the case since joining up? Any team in the nation could fill that role.

    He "loves their BCS bowl wins". That's becoming ancient history. Lately, they can't even qualify for any bowl... not even a marginal potato type bowl. That takes a winning record.

    He "loves their BCS wins". That's not hard to understand... as rarely as they've happened since joining the conference.

    I'm not intending to be as critical as you often are regarding BYU, Chris. I'm just trying to be honest and put things back into a more realistic perspective.

  • Crazy for Utah Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2013 4:43 p.m.

    Would have liked to see Utah snag East's Korey Rush. He's going to another Pac-12 rival in Arizona State. Gotta keep the top locals home!

  • Gone fishin Murray, UT
    May 8, 2013 4:27 p.m.

    AZUTE1, etc,
    How does it feel to have the same thing done to you that Chris B. does to BYU.

    Jdub1942,
    Actually, I am better connected to the State of Utah and to the PAC 10 than you know. I worked for the U of U for many years and work for a PAC 10 school currently and also lived in Utah for many years. I follow Utah and BYU carefully so you are incorrect when you say that I am out of touch. I used to be a huge Utah fan until I sstarted to read these posts and read the comments by Chris B and other BYU haters. I am no longer a Utah fan as you may be able to tell.

    By the way the original PAC 10 schools do not respect Utah or Colorado as true members of the conference. Living in Utah has skewed Utah fans opinion of themselves. Until they can start to win they will not get the respect they so desire.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    May 8, 2013 4:06 p.m.

    007

    this is what you wrote:
    "My commitment's strong," Stott told the Star in 2011. Decommitting "would be letting down more than just my commitment, honor and trust. It would also be breaking bonds of trust and honor with my family, both here and in Arizona, and the city of Tucson.

    "That's something I just cannot do." -Arizona Daily Star

    Yep, Stott and these others will fit right in at Utah.

    How is it that someone could not interpret your statement as a calling into question the commitment, honor and trust of Utah players?

    You imply that by changing his mind, he doesn't have any, then you say he would fit in at Utah. If you weren't trying to make that judgement, why didn't you add BYU to your list of schools?

    You are a disgrace to BYU fans and the institution.

    Signed Dan Snell BYU class of '97

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    May 8, 2013 3:51 p.m.

    007,

    See Josh Sharp, Riley Nelson etc. This sort of things happens. Please come down off your high horse.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 8, 2013 3:39 p.m.

    Jason Scheer, Publisher/Senior Editor of Wildcat Authority, has confirmed, unequivocally, that Logan Stott, in fact, did NOT sign a LOI with ua.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    May 8, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    Love the work Dan!! Keep it up!

  • Chewbacca Magna, UT
    May 8, 2013 3:09 p.m.

    007-

    I don't know what happened at AU. I don't think you know what happened at AU. Stott hasn't publicly stated what changed his mind. Maybe we should give him the benifit of the doubt instead of implying that his character is in doubt.

  • 007 Layton, UT
    May 8, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    Wow AZUTE1, pocyUte and StGtoSLC. I never said that I hate the University of Utah, that BYU players haven't done a similar thing, or that Stott is poor in character. I don't know why you would be so concerned with what I wrote unless there IS a flaw in his character. It's just like the reaction to Max Hall's comments in '09. If it wasn't true, then so many people would not have been so upset.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 8, 2013 2:54 p.m.

    007, as was already discussed, but you conveniently ignore, he signed with Arizona. He kept his commitment. He enrolled in school. It wasn't for him. He moved on. You should, too. Judging an 18 year old kid's character whom you don't know is shameful.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    May 8, 2013 2:54 p.m.

    Chris B,

    Actually the last time yBu seniors last swept Utah was from 89-92. We beat them 57-28 in 1988 in that amazing game in Rice Stadium. Then we had 4 straight losses to the team down south before we beat them again in 93 in the first of the 34-31 games. Those losses to the Cougs in those 4 years were brutal. Especially that 89 game when we lost 70-31. That hurt since we had beat them down the same way the year before.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 8, 2013 2:51 p.m.

    007
    Layton, UT
    AZUTE1,

    "Oh, sorry. He must have meant that he cannot break bonds of trust and honor UNLESS it is in two years."

    You're so utterly focused on hating on The University of UTAH, that all else, including both logic and the obvious abscence of the entirety of the story of his recruitment, is just simply flying past you overhead.

    You've neither researched why he felt so committed to ua initially nor what the precise details of his departure were....Furthermore, you've deliberately gone counter to the values/beleifs of what your church-affiliation espouses in blatantly slandering this kid's good name and you've done so without even bothering to ascertain all of the facts involved.

  • Papa Smurf UTE Herriman, UT
    May 8, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    Gone Fishin,

    Funny how we play a much more difficult schedule than you do, and no one here has claimed that we out recruit the other teams in the PAC 12. We only out recruit our little brothers to the south. Even though my UTES have been sub par in their new league, they still somehow continue to beat you, and some years dominate you completely. By that measure, you would'nt win a single PAC 12 game. Face it, facts are facts. We out recruit you, we have beat you almost every season for the last decade, and we are in a much better conference than you are. Sorry, you are not in a conference.

  • pocyUte Pocatello, ID
    May 8, 2013 2:45 p.m.

    007,

    2 years is all it takes. Signed Riley Nelson

    As for the story behind Stott, we probably won't ever get the whole truth.

    No, he didn't sign a LOI, but yes did graduate early and enrolled early, so he might be eligible this fall, depending on how the NCAA rules, there's a lot to be decided on that front.

    As to why he left, only rumor and conjecture, but the the rumor most commonly cited is that the UA coaches were not true to their word. About what? I don't know. But, he had, in fact, enrolled at AZ

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 8, 2013 2:30 p.m.

    Hope the U has a better year this year in the Pac12. The Pac12 is a tough road and winning is hard...really no easy wins with the exception of Colorado. I would like to see the U expand their stadium up to at least 55k because I think they would easily sell out. Still a big Y fan but having the U move up to the Pac12 is huge for the state of Utah and major college football. The fact that the U is in a BCS conference is also huge for recruits. I suspect most Utah recruits would pick the U over the Y unless they really just want to attend the Y for the atmosphere in Provo. It is really too bad the Y never got into the Big12....that would have been a great rivalry between the Big12 and Pac12. The future of BYU football is a question mark right now for me. The bowl money isn't there anymore and the home schedule is a joke so the luster of the program has certainly dropped. The ONLY way for the Y to climb back into the national spot light is to win!

  • 007 Layton, UT
    May 8, 2013 2:22 p.m.

    AZUTE1,
    Oh, sorry. He must have meant that he cannot break bonds of trust and honor UNLESS it is in two years.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 8, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    @007

    News Flash, 9th grade verbal comitments are not binding. Get over it! This happens all the time; to every major college football program in the country.

  • pmartin College Station, TX
    May 8, 2013 2:13 p.m.

    I just wanted to say that I think it is incredible the options that BYU and Utah provide for local preps and those in the surrounding areas. Both schools are great, with great academics, awesome environment and while they can offer quite the contrast in experiences, they both provide excellent opportunities for learning and growth (including the preparation to continue playing in the NFL). I remember the allure of going far away to college, but it is very hard for to believe you could find much better than the options right in Utah and the opportunity to be with family for special occasions. Also, while these two might be best because of opportunity, let's not forget what Utah State has to offer the area as well.

    Great options that any prep would do well and should consider when looking at opportunities!

  • Chewbacca Magna, UT
    May 8, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    007- Obviously something changed for him.

    We'll take him. Utah's O-line recruits are really exciting going forward. Should be a game changer for the offense.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 8, 2013 1:54 p.m.

    007
    Layton, UT
    AZUTE1,

    "Read the above statement by Stott as quoted in the Arizona Daily Star."

    Do you mean the one from 2011? This one? You must not have received the memo, but we're currently in the year 2013, which happens to double as the precise year attached to the recruiting class in which Stott belongs.

  • 007 Layton, UT
    May 8, 2013 1:47 p.m.

    AZUTE1,

    Read the above statement by Stott as quoted in the Arizona Daily Star.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 8, 2013 1:20 p.m.

    AZUTE1, I read somewhere that he enrolled at UA, but didn't like it, and left. I imagine something official will be out soon, though.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 8, 2013 1:16 p.m.

    007, it's also interesting that Stott committed to play for a position coach who wasn't himself committed to sticking around. What's more is that even after that coach left, from my understanding, Stott still signed his letter of intent, enrolled in school at Arizona, participated, and decided what was in his best interests was to take another look at his options, and apparently the new coaching staff was gracious enough for that. Additionally, he chose not to follow the very coach that recruited him to Provo. So he followed through with his commitment, while Anae didn't, and in the end chose Utah. I agree, he should fit in pretty well.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 8, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    It's my understanding that Stott never in fact signed a LOI with ua.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 8, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    toosmartforyou
    Farmington, UT

    "Gotta love that PAC 10.2 Basement, Utes. I know Chris B is happy with that. So is Naval Vet, Go Utes, Uteology, ekute, etc.

    Tell us, will the Utes finally amass 10 conference wins by the end of this season or will it take them 4 years? They didn't accomplish it yet so we're still waiting. Of course they weren't that potent and effective in the MWC either, so (boring) no change in that regard.

    At least after last year you hit .500 against your new rival, Colorado. Surely you remember them and your game in SLC the first year, don't you? Seems like they derailed the Utes greased schedule to make it to the PAC 12 inagural championship game.

    What hurts worse----almost making it and losing your last season game at home or not even being in the mix, like last year?"

    The irony here, in addition to it all not even remotely based upon facts, is that byu registers an annual loss to UTAH.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 8, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    StGtoSLC brings up a good point about Stott. He committed to Arizona 2-yrs ago, and signed his LOI 3-months ago....and now he's a Ute? When did this happen? Why is he changing his mind all of a sudden after all that time spent committed to 'Zona?

    Don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining that he's headed up to SLC. I'm just complaining that there had been a serious lack of coverage for such a major recruiting coup. Rivals rated him as the nation's 14th-ranked OL, and awarded him 4 stars. Meanwhile, the Indy-WACers get a "soft commit" from some 0-star, 5-8/164-lbs WR with no other FBS offers, and he gets a full page article.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    May 8, 2013 1:05 p.m.

    For those of you within the byu-fanbase who believe there's anything whatsoever lacking in Stott's character, I challenge you to provide evidence of what actually transpired during his "decommit" from ua.

    Blindly making unsubstantiated-/inane-assumptions, based solely upon the palpable anti-UTAH sentiment you harbor and thereby attempting to smear his name online, is hardly representative of the tenants of byu's owner.

  • jdub1942 PROVO, UT
    May 8, 2013 1:00 p.m.

    Gone Fishing,
    "Funny how Utah claims to win the recruiting war but still cannot succeed in conference play or make it to a bowl game. I guess it says something about the coaching staff."

    You have been gone a while, so you may not have noticed Utah is not in the same conference as BYU anymore. So since the article is about winning the instate recruiting war and Utah is have excellent success against BYU on the field, your comment makes no sense. Additionally we have not claimed to be winning the recruiting war against other PAC-12 Teams.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 8, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    "It is impossible to win without talent." -- D. Sorensen

    Not so Dan. Our no-BCS-bowling little brother had already PROVED that winning without talent IS possible. Their 2-star heavy squad had been beating weak-WAC football teams since the 1970s.

  • Reasonable thinker Murray, UT
    May 8, 2013 12:24 p.m.

    Now if he can just keep them on the team and out of jail it might be a great season with 5 wins.

  • Gone fishin Murray, UT
    May 8, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    Funny how Utah claims to win the recruiting war but still cannot succeed in conference play or make it to a bowl game. I guess it says something about the coaching staff.

  • jdub1942 PROVO, UT
    May 8, 2013 12:09 p.m.

    We will never lose a commit who ends up playing here for 4 years

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    May 8, 2013 11:54 a.m.

    Important to win the recruiting battle in state. Now time to get back to bowling.

    GO UTES!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    May 8, 2013 11:22 a.m.

    Well we still get the best top recruits. As coach said, we will never loose another recruit we want and who wants us to.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    May 8, 2013 11:19 a.m.

    @toosmartforyou

    "What hurts worse"?
    That the Utes have owned the tds for the last 20 years.
    That the Utes went to, and won 2 BCS bowl games in the same period of time.
    That the Utes accepted an invitation to join the Pac12.
    Or that nobody wants the tds.

  • GO_COUGARS! Provo, UT
    May 8, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    Bronco could've gotten all of those top ten recruits if he wanted them, but he only wanted the bottom two. All part of our top secret plan.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    May 8, 2013 11:09 a.m.

    If you obsessively hate Utah, this is going to be a difficult article to stomach.

    Set the spin cycle to high.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    May 8, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    Gotta love that PAC 10.2 Basement, Utes. I know Chris B is happy with that. So is Naval Vet, Go Utes, Uteology, ekute, etc.

    Tell us, will the Utes finally amass 10 conference wins by the end of this season or will it take them 4 years? They didn't accomplish it yet so we're still waiting. Of course they weren't that potent and effective in the MWC either, so (boring) no change in that regard.

    At least after last year you hit .500 against your new rival, Colorado. Surely you remember them and your game in SLC the first year, don't you? Seems like they derailed the Utes greased schedule to make it to the PAC 12 inagural championship game.

    What hurts worse----almost making it and losing your last season game at home or not even being in the mix, like last year?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    May 8, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    Ute haters,
    Don't read this article. You can't handle the truth!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 8, 2013 10:14 a.m.

    Didn't realize Stott had requested release from Arizona. Good news, anyway, since the Utes need help rebuilding the line that held the offense together just two years ago, all of which are gone now. From a fellow St. Georgian, welcome to the U!

  • Go Utes! Springville, UT
    May 8, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    Good story. but it kinda makes me sad that the next four months all i will have to look forward to is filler stories and fluff pieces.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    We're getting to the point where the decision is made automatically for kids:

    3 stars or more: You go to Utah
    2 stars or less: You go to byu

    LOL. Yes, the truth hurts. Well, at least to non-AQ 2 star talent teams and their fans!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2013 10:05 a.m.

    I wonder if the in state recruiting domination has anything to do with Utah 2013 seniors going for the perfect 4-0 sweep of our former rival byu?

    When was the last time byu seniors swept Utah?

    LOL. 1984 maybe?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2013 10:04 a.m.

    So how many players held offers from both and CHOSE Utah?

    How many players held offers from both and CHOSE byu?

    LOL

    I love my Pac 12 membership!

    I love my BCS bowls!

    I love my BCS wins!

    I love my coach that knows winning is #1.

    The future(and present) of football in Utah...

    is UTAH