So how many players held offers from both and CHOSE Utah?How many
players held offers from both and CHOSE byu?LOLI love my
Pac 12 membership!I love my BCS bowls!I love my BCS
wins!I love my coach that knows winning is #1.The
future(and present) of football in Utah...is UTAH
I wonder if the in state recruiting domination has anything to do with Utah 2013
seniors going for the perfect 4-0 sweep of our former rival byu?When
was the last time byu seniors swept Utah?LOL. 1984 maybe?
We're getting to the point where the decision is made automatically for
kids:3 stars or more: You go to Utah2 stars or less: You go
to byuLOL. Yes, the truth hurts. Well, at least to non-AQ 2 star
talent teams and their fans!
Good story. but it kinda makes me sad that the next four months all i will have
to look forward to is filler stories and fluff pieces.
Didn't realize Stott had requested release from Arizona. Good news, anyway,
since the Utes need help rebuilding the line that held the offense together just
two years ago, all of which are gone now. From a fellow St. Georgian, welcome to
Ute haters, Don't read this article. You can't handle the truth!
Gotta love that PAC 10.2 Basement, Utes. I know Chris B is happy with that. So
is Naval Vet, Go Utes, Uteology, ekute, etc. Tell us, will the Utes
finally amass 10 conference wins by the end of this season or will it take them
4 years? They didn't accomplish it yet so we're still waiting. Of
course they weren't that potent and effective in the MWC either, so
(boring) no change in that regard. At least after last year you hit
.500 against your new rival, Colorado. Surely you remember them and your game
in SLC the first year, don't you? Seems like they derailed the Utes
greased schedule to make it to the PAC 12 inagural championship game. What hurts worse----almost making it and losing your last season game at home
or not even being in the mix, like last year?
If you obsessively hate Utah, this is going to be a difficult article to
stomach. Set the spin cycle to high.
Bronco could've gotten all of those top ten recruits if he wanted them, but
he only wanted the bottom two. All part of our top secret plan.
@toosmartforyou"What hurts worse"?That the Utes have
owned the tds for the last 20 years.That the Utes went to, and won 2 BCS
bowl games in the same period of time.That the Utes accepted an invitation
to join the Pac12.Or that nobody wants the tds.
Well we still get the best top recruits. As coach said, we will never loose
another recruit we want and who wants us to.
Important to win the recruiting battle in state. Now time to get back to
We will never lose a commit who ends up playing here for 4 years
Funny how Utah claims to win the recruiting war but still cannot succeed in
conference play or make it to a bowl game. I guess it says something about the
Now if he can just keep them on the team and out of jail it might be a great
season with 5 wins.
"It is impossible to win without talent." -- D. SorensenNot
so Dan. Our no-BCS-bowling little brother had already PROVED that winning
without talent IS possible. Their 2-star heavy squad had been beating weak-WAC
football teams since the 1970s.
Gone Fishing, "Funny how Utah claims to win the recruiting war but
still cannot succeed in conference play or make it to a bowl game. I guess it
says something about the coaching staff."You have been gone a
while, so you may not have noticed Utah is not in the same conference as BYU
anymore. So since the article is about winning the instate recruiting war and
Utah is have excellent success against BYU on the field, your comment makes no
sense. Additionally we have not claimed to be winning the recruiting war
against other PAC-12 Teams.
For those of you within the byu-fanbase who believe there's anything
whatsoever lacking in Stott's character, I challenge you to provide
evidence of what actually transpired during his "decommit" from ua.Blindly making unsubstantiated-/inane-assumptions, based solely upon the
palpable anti-UTAH sentiment you harbor and thereby attempting to smear his name
online, is hardly representative of the tenants of byu's owner.
StGtoSLC brings up a good point about Stott. He committed to Arizona 2-yrs ago,
and signed his LOI 3-months ago....and now he's a Ute? When did this
happen? Why is he changing his mind all of a sudden after all that time spent
committed to 'Zona?Don't get me wrong...I'm not
complaining that he's headed up to SLC. I'm just complaining that
there had been a serious lack of coverage for such a major recruiting coup.
Rivals rated him as the nation's 14th-ranked OL, and awarded him 4 stars.
Meanwhile, the Indy-WACers get a "soft commit" from some 0-star,
5-8/164-lbs WR with no other FBS offers, and he gets a full page article.
toosmartforyouFarmington, UT"Gotta love that PAC 10.2
Basement, Utes. I know Chris B is happy with that. So is Naval Vet, Go Utes,
Uteology, ekute, etc. Tell us, will the Utes finally amass 10
conference wins by the end of this season or will it take them 4 years? They
didn't accomplish it yet so we're still waiting. Of course they
weren't that potent and effective in the MWC either, so (boring) no change
in that regard. At least after last year you hit .500 against your
new rival, Colorado. Surely you remember them and your game in SLC the first
year, don't you? Seems like they derailed the Utes greased schedule to make
it to the PAC 12 inagural championship game. What hurts
worse----almost making it and losing your last season game at home or not even
being in the mix, like last year?"The irony here, in addition to
it all not even remotely based upon facts, is that byu registers an annual loss
@ Naval VetIt's my understanding that Stott never in fact
signed a LOI with ua.
007, it's also interesting that Stott committed to play for a position
coach who wasn't himself committed to sticking around. What's more is
that even after that coach left, from my understanding, Stott still signed his
letter of intent, enrolled in school at Arizona, participated, and decided what
was in his best interests was to take another look at his options, and
apparently the new coaching staff was gracious enough for that. Additionally, he
chose not to follow the very coach that recruited him to Provo. So he followed
through with his commitment, while Anae didn't, and in the end chose Utah.
I agree, he should fit in pretty well.
AZUTE1, I read somewhere that he enrolled at UA, but didn't like it, and
left. I imagine something official will be out soon, though.
AZUTE1,Read the above statement by Stott as quoted in the Arizona
007Layton, UTAZUTE1,"Read the above statement by
Stott as quoted in the Arizona Daily Star."Do you mean the one
from 2011? This one? You must not have received the memo, but we're
currently in the year 2013, which happens to double as the precise year attached
to the recruiting class in which Stott belongs.
007- Obviously something changed for him. We'll take him.
Utah's O-line recruits are really exciting going forward. Should be a game
changer for the offense.Go Utes!
I just wanted to say that I think it is incredible the options that BYU and Utah
provide for local preps and those in the surrounding areas. Both schools are
great, with great academics, awesome environment and while they can offer quite
the contrast in experiences, they both provide excellent opportunities for
learning and growth (including the preparation to continue playing in the NFL).
I remember the allure of going far away to college, but it is very hard for to
believe you could find much better than the options right in Utah and the
opportunity to be with family for special occasions. Also, while these two
might be best because of opportunity, let's not forget what Utah State has
to offer the area as well. Great options that any prep would do
well and should consider when looking at opportunities!
@007News Flash, 9th grade verbal comitments are not binding. Get
over it! This happens all the time; to every major college football program in
AZUTE1,Oh, sorry. He must have meant that he cannot break bonds of trust
and honor UNLESS it is in two years.
Hope the U has a better year this year in the Pac12. The Pac12 is a tough road
and winning is hard...really no easy wins with the exception of Colorado. I
would like to see the U expand their stadium up to at least 55k because I think
they would easily sell out. Still a big Y fan but having the U move up to the
Pac12 is huge for the state of Utah and major college football. The fact that
the U is in a BCS conference is also huge for recruits. I suspect most Utah
recruits would pick the U over the Y unless they really just want to attend the
Y for the atmosphere in Provo. It is really too bad the Y never got into the
Big12....that would have been a great rivalry between the Big12 and Pac12. The
future of BYU football is a question mark right now for me. The bowl money
isn't there anymore and the home schedule is a joke so the luster of the
program has certainly dropped. The ONLY way for the Y to climb back into the
national spot light is to win!
007,2 years is all it takes. Signed Riley NelsonAs for
the story behind Stott, we probably won't ever get the whole truth. No, he didn't sign a LOI, but yes did graduate early and enrolled
early, so he might be eligible this fall, depending on how the NCAA rules,
there's a lot to be decided on that front.As to why he left,
only rumor and conjecture, but the the rumor most commonly cited is that the UA
coaches were not true to their word. About what? I don't know. But, he
had, in fact, enrolled at AZ
Gone Fishin,Funny how we play a much more difficult schedule than
you do, and no one here has claimed that we out recruit the other teams in the
PAC 12. We only out recruit our little brothers to the south. Even though my
UTES have been sub par in their new league, they still somehow continue to beat
you, and some years dominate you completely. By that measure, you would'nt
win a single PAC 12 game. Face it, facts are facts. We out recruit you, we have
beat you almost every season for the last decade, and we are in a much better
conference than you are. Sorry, you are not in a conference.
007Layton, UTAZUTE1,"Oh, sorry. He must have meant
that he cannot break bonds of trust and honor UNLESS it is in two years."You're so utterly focused on hating on The University of UTAH, that
all else, including both logic and the obvious abscence of the entirety of the
story of his recruitment, is just simply flying past you overhead.You've neither researched why he felt so committed to ua initially nor
what the precise details of his departure were....Furthermore, you've
deliberately gone counter to the values/beleifs of what your church-affiliation
espouses in blatantly slandering this kid's good name and you've done
so without even bothering to ascertain all of the facts involved.
Chris B,Actually the last time yBu seniors last swept Utah was from
89-92. We beat them 57-28 in 1988 in that amazing game in Rice Stadium. Then we
had 4 straight losses to the team down south before we beat them again in 93 in
the first of the 34-31 games. Those losses to the Cougs in those 4 years were
brutal. Especially that 89 game when we lost 70-31. That hurt since we had beat
them down the same way the year before.
007, as was already discussed, but you conveniently ignore, he signed with
Arizona. He kept his commitment. He enrolled in school. It wasn't for him.
He moved on. You should, too. Judging an 18 year old kid's character whom
you don't know is shameful.
Wow AZUTE1, pocyUte and StGtoSLC. I never said that I hate the University of
Utah, that BYU players haven't done a similar thing, or that Stott is poor
in character. I don't know why you would be so concerned with what I wrote
unless there IS a flaw in his character. It's just like the reaction to
Max Hall's comments in '09. If it wasn't true, then so many
people would not have been so upset.
007-I don't know what happened at AU. I don't think you
know what happened at AU. Stott hasn't publicly stated what changed his
mind. Maybe we should give him the benifit of the doubt instead of implying
that his character is in doubt.
Love the work Dan!! Keep it up!
Jason Scheer, Publisher/Senior Editor of Wildcat Authority, has confirmed,
unequivocally, that Logan Stott, in fact, did NOT sign a LOI with ua.
007,See Josh Sharp, Riley Nelson etc. This sort of things happens.
Please come down off your high horse.
007this is what you wrote: "My commitment's
strong," Stott told the Star in 2011. Decommitting "would be letting
down more than just my commitment, honor and trust. It would also be breaking
bonds of trust and honor with my family, both here and in Arizona, and the city
of Tucson."That's something I just cannot do." -Arizona
Daily StarYep, Stott and these others will fit right in at Utah.How is it that someone could not interpret your statement as a calling
into question the commitment, honor and trust of Utah players?You
imply that by changing his mind, he doesn't have any, then you say he would
fit in at Utah. If you weren't trying to make that judgement, why
didn't you add BYU to your list of schools?You are a disgrace
to BYU fans and the institution.Signed Dan Snell BYU class of
AZUTE1, etc,How does it feel to have the same thing done to you that Chris
B. does to BYU.Jdub1942,Actually, I am better connected to the
State of Utah and to the PAC 10 than you know. I worked for the U of U for many
years and work for a PAC 10 school currently and also lived in Utah for many
years. I follow Utah and BYU carefully so you are incorrect when you say that I
am out of touch. I used to be a huge Utah fan until I sstarted to read these
posts and read the comments by Chris B and other BYU haters. I am no longer a
Utah fan as you may be able to tell. By the way the original PAC 10
schools do not respect Utah or Colorado as true members of the conference.
Living in Utah has skewed Utah fans opinion of themselves. Until they can start
to win they will not get the respect they so desire.
Would have liked to see Utah snag East's Korey Rush. He's going to
another Pac-12 rival in Arizona State. Gotta keep the top locals home!
Chris B is always good for a laugh with some of his comments. He seems to live
to criticize BYU while keeping his blinders on regarding the Utes. Let's
analyze a bit: He "loves their PAC12 membership". Really?
Even if that means being the perennial doormat, as has been the case since
joining up? Any team in the nation could fill that role.He
"loves their BCS bowl wins". That's becoming ancient history.
Lately, they can't even qualify for any bowl... not even a marginal potato
type bowl. That takes a winning record.He "loves their BCS
wins". That's not hard to understand... as rarely as they've
happened since joining the conference. I'm not intending to be
as critical as you often are regarding BYU, Chris. I'm just trying to be
honest and put things back into a more realistic perspective.
@Gone fishin"Actually, I am better connected to the Pac 10 than
you know."So connected that you don't know the name of the
Gone Fishin,Just because a Utah fan (Chris) demonstrates bad
behavior, it doesn't mean you should then justify bad behavior by Y fans.
I have called out Chris B multiple times on these threads for crossing the line.
I have never seen a BYU fan call out one of their own for crossing the line.
Why don't you stand-up and be the first.
Gone fishinMurray, UT"AZUTE1, etc,How does it feel
to have the same thing done to you that Chris B. does to BYU."You used the incorrect byu fan in your comparison. 007 is clearly not the
one."By the way the original PAC 10 schools do not respect Utah
or Colorado as true members of the conference. Living in Utah has skewed Utah
fans opinion of themselves. Until they can start to win they will not get the
respect they so desire."I didn't realize you had been made
the official spokesman for The PAC-12? When did this occur? What do you think
the sentiment was back in '78, upon ASU/ua entering into The PAC-8/-10?This is clearly an act of desperation on your part, full of jealousy and
AZUTE1 said: "The irony here, in addition to it all not even remotely based
upon facts, is that byu registers an annual loss to UTAH."Utah
is in the bottom third of the PAC 12 in Football last year: FACT.Utah has
not yet won 10 PAC 12 Conference games since joining the conference: FACT.Utah lost the opportunity to qualify for the PAC 12 Inagural Championship Game
their first season when they lost to Colorado in SLC: FACT.Norm Chow,
hailed as the great offensive wizard, was the O.C. during that game: FACT.USC was on probation, UCLA lost and Utah only had to defeat Colorado: FACT.Colorado had the worst major college football team in the country, winless for
4 years, when they beat Utah in SLC: FACT.Utah was .000 against Colorado,
now are .500 against them, not a winning record: FACT.The irony is
you have crimson colored glasses to view the world. Nice try.
Bet this drives Cougar "fan" crazy.Keep up the good work
AZUTE1 and others-I am sorry for my offensive behavior. I thought
it would be fun to ruffle some feathers on here like I do with my ute fan
friends. I didn't realize that the DesNews comment board is neither the
time nor the place. Please find it in your hearts to forgive me.
toosmartforyou is obsessed with Utah - FACT!
Another FACT for VegasUte:Most of the Ute commentors on this site
are literally obsessed with Utah, including yourself! The comments speak for
themselves... truly obsessive.
I honestly don't care that Utah is out recruiting BYU right now. The simple
solution for BYU is to win! Stop losing to your self proclaimed big brother,
who's really just your annoying cousin with small-man-syndrome, and we will
get the recruits. BYU owned Utah in the state for a long time. The fact Utah is
on top now isn't surprising when we lose head to head. "Winning
isn't everything, it's the only thing". And it's the only way
to shut your annoying cousin's mouth. SO WIN! GO COUGS
007, apology accepted. I realize you're not the only one who's ever
done it on either side, but smack talk is for the fans, it shouldn't be
directed at the kids. It'd be great if this was actually a forum where
folks actually talked about the sports written about, and I'm guilty of
getting into it with other fans, too, but that's the one thing that really
gets to me is when people make character judgments on kids they likely have
never met. Carry on, and good luck.
The trend in recruiting over the past 3 years (since the U was admitted to the
PAC-12) is the most disturbing evidence of how the "independent" status
is regarded by football recruits. IMO!
The real story Dan needs to cover is BYUs plummeting recruiting rankings since
the announcement of independence, compared with Utah's improved recruiting
ranking since joining the PAC12. College football is all about the
talent and speed. And talent and speed are all about recruiting. When Cougar fans realize the opposite trend of Utah and BYUs last three
recruiting classes they will understand the harm that independence is inflicting
the BYUs program.
@toodumbforyouAnd what BCS conference is your team affiliated with?
And how have you done against your rivals both recently and long-term?
I guess if you define "continued success" as a losing record and going
to no bowls and finishing in the bottom half of your conference, then the utes
have indeed found "continued success."
Recruiting is very subjective. A good class does not guarntee wins. However, I
would rather have a good class than a average one. @ Vegas UteSpon On Guy!
In spite of all the bickering between Utes and Cougs, this article is almost
spot on. Twenty years ago, there were not a lot of top caliber athletes coming
out of Utah, but today there are. And whether we like it or not, Utes are
winning the in-state recruiting battle. There will always be some
who want to come to BYU, but do not qualify academically (i.e. Star). There
will always be some who do not want to live the honor code. But for those who
qualify academically and are willing to live the honor code, BYU needs to out
recruit Utah for the top talent in the state - like we are doing in
basketball.This is not an admission that Utah is the better team or
program. Sure U have won 3 of the last 4, but 3 of the last 4 have come down to
the final play of the game. The programs are pretty evenly matched in my
opinion.I'm optimistic about the players we have on the team,
and in the pipeline, but we need to find ways to land a couple more of the top
players from in-state.
Why thank you Tators - I am obsessed with Utah, the team I cheer for and own
season tickets to see. That is the normal way things work. For that reason, I
do not troll tds stories.Why are you obsessed with Utah??
WACfaninTX:I recall back during the 2010 preseason, after the
cougars had won 3 of the (then) last 4, how your fans would make numerous posts
as to how "dominate" you all had been. But somehow, after the UTES
completed a "3 of the last 4" series, all of a sudden, our programs are
"pretty evenly matched"...at least in your opinion.So why
were you "dominate" when you all won 3 of 4, but "evenly
matched" when WE do? Especially considering the "real numbers"
involved. For example...(1) During YOUR "3 of 4", you won
by an average of 4-pts, but during OUR "3 of 4" we won by an average of
16.(2) During YOUR "3 of 4" one game went into O/T, whereas
during OURs, all were won in regulation.(3) During YOUR "3 of
4", you were STILL outscored 112-100. During OURs you outscored 118-73.(4) During YOUR "3 of 4", your recruiting classes were (Rivals)
ranked an average of #57 (to our #52), whereas during OUR "3 of 4", ours
averaged #35 (to your #58).How can you spin that in your favor?
@toosmartforyouWhat hurts worse----almost making it and losing your
last season game at home or not even being in the mix, like last year.---------------Neither, it's part of growing pains with lack
of PAC-12 depth, in particular at QB. But as the article notes getting the top
in-state recruits will help us improve in our new league.What hurts
more?A) Printing 50,000 Quest T-Shirts only to get rolled by your
rival as they accomplish your Quest?B) Being in 40+ years of
discussions with the Big 12 or PAC-10 for 40 years only to get passed over by
your rival.I will be patiently waiting for your response.
BYU needs to get at least half of the instate top talent, Utah is clearly doing
a much better job of recruiting. This article brings clarity as to why Utah has
been consistently beating BYU . They get the emotional edge by getting the best
in state football players. BYU needs to compete hard for these players and get
It never fails to humor me how the byu fanbase conveniently has full-blown
amnesia when it comes to the first 3+ Quarters of last year's game. We were
up, 24-7, into the 4th-Quarter, before we removed our foot from the pedal and
began lazily committing 100% unforced mental errors, thereby allowing byu to
believe they could actually pull-off the type of miracle they've managed to
achieve recently against usu at home. From the 100% unforced botched punt, to
our two backup Safeties doing the unthinkable and doing what our two former
Freshman All-America Safties sitting out the entire game would've never
allowed to take place in letting that byu receiver get behind them late, in
order to allow byu to extend their drive, which also was a 100% unforced mental
error.Then, to have a penalty called on us after Star easily blocked
that 1st FG-Attempt, when footage clearly showed that the non-participant on the
field closest to the live football was none other than bm, himself, as well as a
bunch of other non-participants from the byu sideline. Offsetting-penalties and
byu never gets to doink that second-attempt.
@Naval Vet"So why were you "dominate" when you all won 3 of 4,
but "evenly matched" when WE do? Especially considering the "real
numbers" involved. For example..."Wow a Strawman fallacy from the
guy who accuses everyone else of it. You can't make a blanket statement
about what BYU fans said during BYUs 3 out of 4 run and then attribute that
statement to CougfaninTX by asking the above question, then refute his
"evenly matched" opinion using your statement about what BYU fans said.
CougfaninTX didn't make that statement (or at least you don't know
that he did) so u can't refute him by referring to it. He may have had the
"evenly matched" opinion in both instances. Looking forward to your
spin. However to your point, no I didn't think BYUs 3 out of 4 from 06-09
to be dominant, those were hard fought battles. BYUs 23-7 record from 1972-2002
was dominant, with multiple blowouts including the widest margin (50) and the
most points (70) in this series. Now if you want to take what I actually said
there instead of replacing it with a statement about other cougar fans we can
avoid any fallacies.
AZUTEI think u will find that most fans have selective amnesia not just
BYU fans. And btw I don't think a game can end on offsetting penalties. Not
that it would have made any difference with our lousy kicker.
@toosmartforyou regarding: Colorado had the worst major college football team in
the country, winless for 4 years, when they beat Utah in SLC: FACT.Suggest you get a better understanding of FACT. The comment that Colorado had
the worst major college football team is clearly an opinion. There is no
quantitative evaluation to make this a fact.Additionally you also
are incorrect in the second part of your statement as Colorado was not winless
for 4 years when they beat Utah. They won 2 games before playing Utah in 2011,
5 in 2010, 3 in 2009, and 5 in 2008. Winless is the Y vs. the U the past 3 year
and that is a correct fact.
Cougsndawgs:"Wow a Strawman fallacy from the guy who accuses
everyone else of it. You can't make a blanket statement about what BYU fans
said during BYUs 3 out of 4 run and then attribute that statement to
CougfaninTX..."I never attributed what the fans of Utah's
little brother said to WACfaninTX. I attributed it to the fans of Utah's
little brother. That was a strawman fallacy on your part. And YOU'RE
calling ME out for a strawman? Typical hypocritical coug.
@Naval VetThen who were you asking this question to if not CougfaninTX?-
"So why were you "dominate" when you all won 3 of 4, but "evenly
matched" when WE do? This question was to CougfaninTX was it not? Does
not the question imply that CougfaninTX believed BYUs 3 out of 4 to be
"dominant"? Or were you questioning BYU fans in general and then
attributing CougfaninTX's "evenly matched" opinion to them? Either
way, it's Strawman regardless of your frantic and emotional "typical
hypocritical coug" spin. You made a statement that was never
CougfaninTX's opinion, or attributed his "evenly matched" statement
to BYU fans in general, can't have it both ways, and either way is fallacy.
You're a smart guy, you know what you did. The hard part is always
I love how after about 70 comments or so, the conversation always devolves into
something like this ^^^^^^
@truthsandwichHaha, actually very true. It's all harmless banter in
the end. I will end it by simply saying what we all know will come next. A
denial of any fallacy by Naval Vet, despite logical conclusion to the contrary
and then endless questioning about who he was talking to and how either way it
misrepresented CougfaninTX or BYU fans in general, his denial that he attributed
anything to anyone despite his question which alludes to the contrary, and
finally my giving up trying to reason with someone who will never give in
regardless of reason. There I saved everyone the trouble.
Cougsndawgs:Indy-WACey fans had been touting their 3-of-4 as
"dominance". That's a given. WACfaninTX is now suggesting OUR
3-of-4 is "evenly matched". That's a given. Never had I suggested
that WACfaninTX stated his 3-of4 was "dominance". That's a given.
YOU'RE the one who frantically and emotionally tied the two given
statements together into one. The strawman was YOURS! WACfaninTX failed to
defend his "evenly matched" assessment, and neither had he attempted to
try to explain why his fanbase can't maintain any consistency in
differentiating "dominance" from "evenly matched", so it seems
he's now abandoned that fantasy.You're just upset because
you found out that the finger you tried waving at me was directly pointed at
you. That's what you get for acting out all frantic and emotionally. Try
reading for content next time.
Naval Vet:Indy-WACey fans had been touting their 3-of-4 as
"dominance". That's a given. According to you
that's a given. Myself as well as many of my friends who are BYU fans
didn't tout that as dominance. I even gave you my definition of dominance
above. "Try reading for content next time". Here's your Strawman
(or one of them) you make a statement as "a given" when it clearly
isn't. You can try these emotional games on someone else (try democrats
that's always fun) but they won't work here."YOU'RE the one who frantically and emotionally tied the two given
statements together into one. The strawman was YOURS! "I'm
the one that tied them together? Tell me, who asked this question (again)-
"So why were you "dominate" when you all won 3 of 4, but "evenly
matched" when WE do? Oops, I think you tied them together fabulously with
your question. Again these games and your emotional spin have been entertaining
but as truthsandwich insinuated, it's old and boring now.To
wrap up, Utah has dominated my Cougs and it's time for the streak to end.
@CougsndawgsHowever to your point, no I didn't think BYUs 3 out
of 4 from 06-09 to be dominant, those were hard fought battles. BYUs 23-7 record
from 1972-2002 was dominant, with multiple blowouts including the widest margin
(50) and the most points (70) in this series. -----------Fallacy is claiming that the rivalry began in 1972.Speaking of
dominance, I think you would agree that going 34-2-4 with 13 shutouts and a 49
point victory (49-0) is more impressive.
Uteology:Fallacy is claiming that the rivalry began in 1972Nope fallacy is what you just did. Make a weak statement and attribute it to
me so you can easily refute it. Show me where I said the series began in 1972.
We were talking about periods of time and dominance between the two schools. I
wasn't aware that there were time limitations or parameters on the
argument. Fail, reset button. Go let Naval Vet punish you because he knows what
you just did and can tell you (except when he commits it himself). And Naval Vet
I'm not trying to pick on you. But you call out BYU fans, especially duck
hunter for Strawman all the time and I've never said anything because
you're usually right. Which is why I know you know better than to do it
yourself with BYU fans. Btw you also must know that trying to make a statement
about what a large group of people think, say, or feel (like BYU fans) is a
Strawman 99.9% of the time- "Indy-WACey fans had been touting their 3-of-4
as "dominance". That's a given". Thats a Strawman. GO COUGS!
toosmartforyouFarmington, UTAZUTE1 said: "The irony here, in
addition to it all not even remotely based upon facts, is that byu registers an
annual loss to UTAH."Utah is in the bottom third of the PAC 12
in Football last year: FACT.Utah has not yet won 10 PAC 12 Conference
games since joining the conference: FACT.Utah lost the opportunity to
qualify for the PAC 12 Inagural Championship Game their first season when they
lost to Colorado in SLC: FACT.Norm Chow, hailed as the great offensive
wizard, was the O.C. during that game: FACT.USC was on probation, UCLA
lost and Utah only had to defeat Colorado: FACT.Colorado had the worst
major college football team in the country, winless for 4 years, when they beat
Utah in SLC: FACT.Utah was .000 against Colorado, now are .500 against
them, not a winning record: FACT.The irony is you have crimson
colored glasses to view the world. Nice try.__________BYU is 3-8-1 all time against Colorado. FACT.Not very smart for you to
bring them up. FACT.BYU has a terrible record against ranked teams the
past several years. FACT.USUs bowl game had a higher viewer rating than
jdub1942If all you want is to out-recruit BYU instate, you will be in the
12-pack cellar for a long time.
WACpaddledBYU may be 3-8-1 all time against Colorado, BUT, the last
time BYU lost to Colorado was 7-9 waaaaaay back in 1947. Since then, BYU has
beaten Colorado in Boulder 41-20 and in the Freedom Bowl 20-17.Unlike the sorry Utes, who couldn't get past a 10-loss Colorado AT HOME
with the PAC South there for the taking.As far as ranked teams go,
it's far more important, to BE a ranked team, than to beat a ranked team.
Utah was winless against ranked teams in 2012 and hasn't come close to
being ranked since joining the PAC.Top 25 FinishesBYU 18Utah 7Top 25 Finishes during the Independent/PAC eraBYU 1Utah 0It's laughable that you obsess about bowl viewership
for BYU's bowl, while completely ignoring the fact that there was ZERO
viewership for Utah's bowl.
Good content!... As for the squabbling in the comments? *Shrug* It reminds me of
the current state of politics, no one wants a "conversation" they just
want to mindlessly repeat a couple of "talking points" hoping to
convince someone out there in cyberspace that "their" team is the team
of the future.I don't know the future, but in 1992 I doubt many
BYU fans would believe that BYU's period of total dominance (19-2 vs. Utah)
was about to come to a crashing end. Still the facts are the facts and in the
last 20 years Utah has gone 13-7 vs. BYU, had had 2 undefeated BCS-busing
seasons, and received a Pac-12 invitation. It always seems to me
that many BYU fans have preserved the dream/myth that 21 year period from 1972
to 1992 was normal, when I as a Ute fan see that the history of the series
53-31-4 for Utah. In fact if you take away than period of BYU's dominance
the series would be 51-12-4... Taking the really long view Utah Football being
better than BYU Football seems to be the more more normal state.
tdlawtonI laugh a Utah fans and their complete obsession with the
BYU-Utah head-to-head results, while completely ignoring the fact that the Utes
have practically no football history worth talking about prior to 2004, have
only FIVE AP Top 25 finishes in their entire history, and have never won a
single national team or individual award of any kind - no national
championships, no Heisman Trophies, no national individual awards, and no
national hall of fame inductees.What's even more laughable is
the continued false narrative that the kids on the hill insist on spewing that
Utah's PAC invitation was some sort of football "accomplishment".
Sorry, but BlG/PAC invitations to Colorado, Utah, Rutgers and Maryland is proof
positive that invitations to "big boy" conference are based entirely on
television markets and have absolutely nothing to do with football success.
Rockwell:So you're saying that Utah's television market is
larger than the Indy-WACers?
Rockwell: "...completely ignoring the fact that the Utes have practically no
football history worth talking about prior to 2004..." Wrong. There is
little history between late 1970s and mid-1990s. tdlawton (bottom
page 4) states: "BYU fans have preserved the dream/myth that 21 year period
from 1972 to 1992 was normal, when I as a Ute fan see that the history of the
series 53-31-4 for Utah." He's right. I think the real question you
need to answer is...what has byu done since 1992? The answer is - little to
nothing.Your assertion, "...the kids on the hill insist on
spewing that Utah's PAC invitation was some sort of football
"accomplishment" is completely false. The Pac-10 Presidents and
Chancellors were very clear (and Utah fans readily acknowledge) that the
criteria upon which the invitation to the Pac-12 was based is:1)
Academics2) Research3) Athletic ProwessMore than just
accomplishments on the football field over the last 10 years was necessary for
an invitation to the elite Pac-12 Conference. Since you brought up
TV markets, Naval Vet asks a legitimate question. You can't have it both
MyPerspectiveSorry to burst your crimson bubble, but the Utes have
practically no history prior to 1994, when the Utes cracked the AP Poll for the
very first time, and nothing between then and 2004 when the Utes finally had
back-to-back Top 25 finishes for the first time.1) Academics - not
even close to BYU in undergraduate excellence2) Research - BYU is a high
research institution3) Athletic Prowess - BYU far exceeds the Utes in
overall athletic prowess - in the 20-year history of the NACDA Directors'
Cup, which honors institutions maintaining a broad-based program and achieving
success in many sports, both men's and women's, the Utes have NEVER
finished ahead of BYU.The only reason BYU wasn't invited to
join the PAC is because a couple of schools vehemently opposed inviting any
private, religious-based institution to the PAC - which is why Colorado was
hastily invited to shut Baylor out of the the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger.BYU would have added a much bigger Utah and national market, but the PAC
was willing to settle for Utah just to get a piece of the Utah market.
My Perspective, to be fair, BYU's best team in history, and possibly the
best team in the state's history was 1996, but I get your point. BYU's
football legacy from the mid-70s to the mid-to late-90s is a great one, and not
recognizing it is as big a mistake as when I refused to recognize how great a
player Michael Jordan was as a kid simply because I wanted the Jazz to beat him
so badly. But before then, BYU was just awful, and since then hasn't been
anything special on a national scale.Despite BYU fans'
ignorance, Utah had accomplished plenty on a national scale before the 70s, and
obviously became a nationally recognizable program in 2004. Ike Armstrong was
already College Football Hall of Famer when Lavell was still coaching Granite
High School. Coach Jack Curtice was a major influence in innovating football
offense with a dynamic passing attack in the 50s and 60s. Utah ranks number one
in Division I in bowl winning percentage out of teams with at least 10 bowl
appearances at .765.
StGtoSLC: Correct on byu's 1996 team though it's impossible to compare
the quality of teams from different years. Lavell accomplished two things: 1)
changed the college game to a passing attack, and 2) got out of coaching as the
game was about to pass by byu. 1996 was Lavell's swan song. TheSportsAuthority: Interesting that you qualified byu's academic
excellence as "undergraduate." You will get no argument on that point.
byu undergrad scores well by US News (it is dirt cheap for LDS members). Beyond
undergrad, byu's portfolio of Master and PhD programs is paper thin.
Compare the grad programs of byu to Utah and Utah St in US News. You will find
that outside of the MBA, byu lags even Utah St. Utah is in class by itself in
the state and aligns well with Pac-12 schools. Regarding research,
byu never was, is not now, or ever will be a tier 1 research institution. The
infrastructure simply isn't there. byu focused on sports for 50 years.
Congratulations on the broadcast facility but the bar set by the Pac-12 is well
out of reach for byu. Epic failure for byu fails on criterion 1 and
Winning the in state recruiting battle is key. Utah has, and continues to do
just that. No conference is going to invite a team that dictates when, and when
they will not play games. That among other issues keep BYU on the outside
looking in when it comes to the BCS; and I love it! The nomads of college
football. But hey look on the bright side; when 6 games, or 11 and the Kraft
Macaroni and Cheese bowl awaits. Nice!
StGtoSLC"Despite BYU fans' ignorance, Utah had accomplished
plenty on a national scale before the 70s"Really???What exactly did Utah accomplish on a national scale prior to 1994?The Utes only played in two bowls prior to 1992, neither of any
significance.Ike Armstrong may have earned a life-time achievement
award, but none of his teams did anything special.
MyPerspectiveIt's interesting that despite Utah fans'
constant boasting about the quality of Utah's athletic programs, it's
clear that Utah's "athletic excellence" had very little to do with
Utah's invitation to the PAC 12.The irony is that despite
claims of Utah leaving BYU in the dust, the truth is, Utah's only
significant accomplishment since joining the PAC is beating BYU.
SoortsAuthority:I agree, Utah was not invited to the PAC 12 because of
athletics. They were invited because they are a tier one research institution
and the PAC 12 wanted the SLC market. BYU didn't meet the research criteria
or fit the political profile the PAC 12 wanted so Utah was really their only
choice in this market. Utah is a very good school, and definitely tier one
research so it makes sense the PAC went after them...they were deserving in
terms of what the PAC 12 wanted.
"Ike Armstrong may have earned a life-time achievement award, but none of
his teams did anything special."His teams won 13 conference
championships with 3 perfect seasons and 2 other undefeated seasons. No, the
Rocky Mountain and Mountain States conferences were not premier college
conferences, but Armstrong's Utah teams put the state on the map in
football. Just being invited to the Sun Bowl in its infancy was a pretty big
deal, as it was one of only five postseason football games, and winning it was
even bigger. Tell me how that isn't "of any significance."
@StGtoSLCThanks for setting the record straight; nice research, nice
post. Personally, I would say beating Georgia Tech is the Sun Bowl
is certainly more significant than beating BYU. Beating BYU is common place
Spokane Ute:Count me in as another Ute fan/alumnus who counts
beating Ga. Tech in the 2011 Sun Bowl as a substantially greater accomplishment
than beating our little brother...again.
So Utah fans have to go to 2011 for something to be more proud of than beating
BYU. That says it all. Frankly I count a 24 point beat down of Georgia tech in
their house and watching them thrash USC LAST YEAR as a greater accomplishment
than anything our adopted ugly cousin did in either if the previous two years.
@Cougsndawgs fanI guess it's hard to even consider beating your
rival significant; when you can't beat them. It must be demoralizing to get
beat year, after year, after year eh? Just being "Frank"!
StGtoSLC"Just being invited to the Sun Bowl in its infancy was a
pretty big deal, as it was one of only five postseason football games, and
winning it was even bigger. Tell me how that isn't 'of any
significance'."You obviously don't know much about the
history of bowl games.Bowl games were so lightly regarded in the
leather helmet era of college football, that Notre Dame, despite playing in the
1924 Rose Bowl, didn't even play in a bowl game from 1925 to 1970,
including 7 of their 11 national championship seasons - 1929, 1930, 1943, 1946,
1947, 1949, and 1966.If winning the Sun Bowl was so
"significant", then why weren't the Utes ranked in the Final AP Top
20 when teams like Northwestern(4-2-2), Fordham(6-1-2), Cornell(5-1-1), and
Tulane(7-2-1) were all considered good enough to be ranked. Sorry,
but Utah(7-1-2) finishing 4-0-2 in a weak conference and beating lowly New
Mexico(8-3) in the Sun Bowl wasn't nearly as significant as you would like
to believe it was. BYU(4-3-1) TIED your "Sun Bowl winning"
navelvet / Spokane Ute / StGtoSLC"Count me in as another Ute
fan/alumnus who counts beating Ga. Tech in the 2011 Sun Bowl as a substantially
greater accomplishment than beating our little brother...again."LOL at the delusional spin coming from the hill.Only a desperate
Utah fan would try to argue that beating unranked/#56 Georgia Tech was a greater
accomplishment than beating #25/#26/#34 BYU, especially when the Utes are so
completely obsessed with any win against the Cougars.Of course that
makes Utah's 2011 come-from-behind 3-point neutral site win over #56
Georgia Tech pale in comparison to BYU's 2012 dominating 24-point road win
over #46 Georgia Tech.
anti BCS, don't attribute something someone says to somebody that
didn't say it.
"If winning the Sun Bowl was so "significant", then why weren't
the Utes ranked in the Final AP Top 20 when teams like Northwestern(4-2-2),
Fordham(6-1-2), Cornell(5-1-1), and Tulane(7-2-1) were all considered good
enough to be ranked."You understand the internet didn't
exist back them right? All of those teams you mentioned were Eastern teams.
And you must also realize that most of the AP is based in the East. The fact
that a team from Utah was even noticed enough to get a bowl invite back in 1939